First Born vs Superman

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carver9
Who wins? No bfring.

ares834
First Born. Fairly easily as well.

Cogito
First Born.

His fight with Apollo pretty much assured that HV isn't going to do much other than piss him off. Remember that when he fought Apollo, he was most certainly not at full strength (having been tortured by Apollo for who knows how long).

Then strength/blunt durability wise he was more than enough for Diana and Orion combined, which I think also should be enough to put him solidly above Superman in that regard.

Swamp Walker
First Born.

DarkSaint85
FB.

SasuOna
First Born
Apollo has been eating his insides and torturing him for months
Still couldn't keep him down or prevent him from beating him senseless

guy222
FB

celeyhyga17
First Born.

Reflassshh
Bump

Branlor Swift
Originally posted by Reflassshh
Bump Agreed

abhilegend
Superman rips him in half.

psycho gundam
even hidden withing a meme you still are compelled to say "superman wins"

abhilegend
Originally posted by psycho gundam
even hidden withing a meme you still are compelled to say "superman wins"
And you are being compelled to spout nonsense like always.

thumb up

psycho gundam
Originally posted by abhilegend
And you are being compelled to spout nonsense like always.

thumb up superman gets ripped in half

abhilegend
Originally posted by psycho gundam
superman gets ripped in half
From someone like First Born?


Bwahahaha. He is the most powerful creature in the galaxy bro.

http://i.imgur.com/Zrj01Th.jpg

Go Pak!!

psycho gundam
See, I was right.

Also I love the epic face turn of Pak cause he's making your boy look good. This is always what it's about on this forum

Rage.Of.Olympus
I actually hope that was a joke.

That comment about Superman is as likely to include the First Born is it does Spectre.

abhilegend
Originally posted by psycho gundam
See, I was right.

Also I love the epic face turn of Pak cause he's making your boy look good. This is always what it's about on this forum
He is writing a good story too. Unlike hulk.

thumb upOriginally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I actually hope that was a joke.

That comment about Superman is as likely to include the First Born is it does Spectre.
The funny thing is that Xa-Du and some kryptonians beat the shit out of phantom stranger worse than spectre.

That are just random talk however. How do you feel at diana being stronger than thor?

http://i.imgur.com/tvgdk7L.jpg

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Stats/ThorStrength20Avengers100.jpg

psycho gundam
Originally posted by abhilegend
He is writing a good story too. Unlike hulk. Planet hulk was beloved by everyone and even with some people getting butthurt over people getting beat up WWH flew off shelves.

But you meant it as "not superman" thumb up

How's your vitamin D level, tough guy?

Rage.Of.Olympus
Really? Damn, the DCnU is barely a few years old and already the Spectre is sucking.......

Do....do you actually think that proves that she is stronger?

Do you believe that Diana doing this:
http://i.imgur.com/tvgdk7L.jpg

Is superior to Hercules/Thor closing a warp indirectly by PUNCHING their fists:
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Stats/ThorStrength20Avengers100.jpg

Are you being sarcastic or is that what you actually think?

I mean, that's ignoring the fact that Wonder Woman BARELY did the feat with help from Mongul and Non who were at it for some time while Hercules/Thor did it casually with a punch.

I mean, the feat actually proves the opposite if anything but whatever. laughing out loud

abhilegend
Originally posted by psycho gundam
Planet hulk was beloved by everyone and even with some people getting butthurt over people getting beat up WWH flew off shelves.

But you meant it as "not superman" thumb up

How's your vitamin D level, tough guy?

So is Action Comics beloved by everyone and flying off shelves. And Batman/Superman.

Nope, not a good story at all.

I'm just fine, thank you for asking.Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Really? Damn, the DCnU is barely a few years old and already the Spectre is sucking.......

Do....do you actually think that proves that she is stronger?

Do you believe that Diana doing this:
http://i.imgur.com/tvgdk7L.jpg

Is superior to Hercules/Thor closing a warp indirectly by PUNCHING their fists:
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Stats/ThorStrength20Avengers100.jpg

Are you being sarcastic or is that what you actually think?

I mean, that's ignoring the fact that Wonder Woman BARELY did the feat with help from Mongul and Non who were at it for some time while Hercules/Thor did it casually with a punch.

I mean, the feat actually proves the opposite if anything but whatever. laughing out loud
Kryptonians>>>>>Everyone bro.

Are you blind or something? She is closing the rift and Non/Mongul are beneath her when she is closing it, not even touching the rift. And says "you're welcome." And where did she closed it just barely?

Closing a rift by herself>>>Taking help from someone equal to you.

Wonder Woman>>>Thor bro.

laughing out loud

Rage.Of.Olympus
LOL.

This yute is literally blind when it comes to Superman.

http://s17.postimg.org/nbjapudfj/tvgdk7_L.jpg

Mongul/Non are literally hugging the rift and trying to close it. They have been for a while.

Well, it seemed to take a great deal of strain from, further supported by the fact that she is literally sweating from that brief exertion.

Closing a rift indirectly by the force created from a punch > Closing a rift by trying to force the edges back.

I COULD post a number of dimensional barrier feats for Thor, but that would imply this is superior to the Hercules/Thor scan, when it's not.

Branlor Swift
Originally posted by psycho gundam
See, I was right.

Also I love the epic face turn of Pak cause he's making your boy look good. This is always what it's about on this forum Remember when Superman fans were calling Pak's stories the worst stories about Superman ever?

Until he started getting feats... because feats make a good story.

Pak sucks just as much now as he did back then. Like the only good thing he's written is Planet Hulk.

abhilegend
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
LOL.

This yute is literally blind when it comes to Superman.

http://s17.postimg.org/nbjapudfj/tvgdk7_L.jpg

Mongul/Non are literally hugging the rift and trying to close it. They have been for a while.

Well, it seemed to take a great deal of strain from, further supported by the fact that she is literally sweating from that brief exertion.

Closing a rift indirectly by the force created from a punch > Closing a rift by trying to force the edges back.

I COULD post a number of dimensional barrier feats for Thor, but that would imply this is superior to the Hercules/Thor scan, when it's not.
You are missing something like always. When diana closes the rift, they aren't even touching it.

http://i.imgur.com/uMyQxzb.jpg

But its OK, you always forget the important part. I forgive you.


Sweating or exerting effort doesn't means she barely closed it rage. You are likely in tears right now.

No, closing a rift by herself>>>Closing it by the help of an equal.

Thor has closed dimensional rifts by himself. Post the scans bro.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by abhilegend
You are missing something like always. When diana closes the rift, they aren't even touching it.

http://i.imgur.com/uMyQxzb.jpg

But its OK, you always forget the important part. I forgive you.


Sweating or exerting effort doesn't means she barely closed it rage. You are likely in tears right now.

No, closing a rift by herself>>>Closing it by the help of an equal.

Thor has closed dimensional rifts by himself. Post the scans bro.

Except in the panel you posted, it had almost sealed and it does not change that she did in fact have a noticeable amount of help.

Okay, she seemed to have used a lot more effort than Hercules/Thor who did it casually.

But she didn't, nor is it that simple.

I don't know about closing, but he definitely has a few breaching ones.

Basically what you're saying, no matter the context, any feat involving two characters is automatically inferior to a similar feat done by a single character. Ignoring methods, strain etc.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Actually, I'm done with this discussion. You may have the last word.

Being a part of any discussion this dumb for more than a few posts cannot be good for your brain.

Although, if you want to battle zone Thor vs. DCnU Diana in strength, PM me.

abhilegend
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Except in the panel you posted, it had almost sealed and it does not change that she did in fact have a noticeable amount of help.

Okay, she seemed to have used a lot more effort than Hercules/Thor who did it casually.

But she didn't, nor is it that simple.

I don't know about closing, but he definitely has a few breaching ones.

Basically what you're saying, no matter the context, any feat involving two characters is automatically inferior to a similar feat done by a single character. Ignoring methods, strain etc.
No, it wasn't. She sealed it by herself. Mongul/Non weren't able to even slow down the rift because they were weakened.

Means very little. Two top tiers doing something would look casual, its nothing to do with individual strength.

She did it and its Pak. Its always simple for him.

Breaching=/=closing.

And Doomsday is definitely FAR above top tier.

abhilegend
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Actually, I'm done with this discussion. You may have the last word.

Being a part of any discussion this dumb for more than a few posts cannot be good for your brain.

Although, if you want to battle zone Thor vs. DCnU Diana in strength, PM me.
Bwahaha. You always say the same rage.

So when Diana is proved to be conclusively stronger than Thor, you revert to your old tactics? Lulzworthy.

pym-ftw
Asking to battlezone it?

abhilegend
Originally posted by pym-ftw
Asking to battlezone it?
Yes.

But seriously, that's a huge feat for diana and she is definitely a peer of Thor in strength now. Considering that the rift would've destroyed earth.

psycho gundam
Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Remember when Superman fans were calling Pak's stories the worst stories about Superman ever?

Until he started getting feats... because feats make a good story.

Pak sucks just as much now as he did back then. Like the only good thing he's written is Planet Hulk. I just want to fight Abhil , I know it's a no sequitur but that's life. Originally posted by abhilegend
Yes. gutless

ares834
Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Remember when Superman fans were calling Pak's stories the worst stories about Superman ever?

His Action Comics is pretty entertaining TBH. Batman/Superman is bad though. And I'm expecting this "Super-Doom" event to suck major ass.

abhilegend
Originally posted by psycho gundam
I just want to fight Abhil , I know it's a no sequitur but that's life. gutless
The gamma prophet, Greg Pak has betrayed church of gamma.

http://i.imgur.com/OTi7WC7.jpg

Come join House of El gundam.

Galan007
The First Born of Olympus utterly shit-stomps the Last Son of Krypton. cwutididthere? thumb up


But in all seriousness, this is borderline spite in FB's favor. smile

abhilegend
Originally posted by Galan007
The First Born of Olympus utterly shit-stomps the Last Son of Krypton. cwutididthere? thumb up


But in all seriousness, this is borderline spite in FB's favor. smile
How so? First Born never showed such superiority to Wonder Woman as Doomsday did even while she was cuffed in Doomsday's case.

And Superman literally ripped him in half. While massively weakened. The impressiveness of that feat can't be underestimated.

Galan007
That ABC logic is moot, because FB and Supes have faced a few of the same foes...

When Superman initially encountered Apollo, he was swatted away(literally) like fodder:
http://imgur.com/LppqINR
^^That is the same Apollo whom FB wiped his ass with.

We can also use Orion as a common gauge if you'd like. Supes was portrayed as his rough equal, with, perhaps, a slight strength-edge. FB, however, was decisively more powerful than Orion.


FB wins. Superman's showing against DD doesn't change that in the slightest, imho.

abhilegend
Originally posted by Galan007
That ABC logic is moot, because FB and Supes have faced a few of the same foes...

When Superman initially encountered Apollo, he was swatted away(literally) like fodder:
http://imgur.com/LppqINR
^^That is the same Apollo whom FB wiped his ass with.

We can also use Orion as a common gauge if you'd like. Supes was portrayed as his rough equal, with, perhaps, a slight strength-edge. FB, however, was decisively more powerful than Orion.


FB wins. Superman's showing against DD doesn't change that in the slightest, imho.
But as of now, Superman was holding back in all those encounters.

http://i.imgur.com/ZKFWMl8.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/ZKFWMl8.jpg

"In a show of Brute Force never before witnessed."

A holding back Superman would lose against FB, however a not holding back Superman would phuck him up.

Epicurus
^But the Doomsday feat is not him holding back, more so him going well beyond his natural limits to create a DYJPOC moment.

abhilegend
Originally posted by Epicurus
^But the Doomsday feat is not him holding back, more so him going well beyond his natural limits to create a DYJPOC moment.
That's what not holding back means under Pak. Its a lulzworthy feat even for me. Superman went from getting his face turned into paste to straight up tearing doomsday in half.

And then Pak goes and gives Doomsday feats like punching and breaking ****ing Phantom Zone.

no expression

Galan007
First off: where is that source from? Certainly a published comic, I hope..?

Secondly: 'never before witnessed' by who, exactly? Lois and co.? That sounds like a very subjective statement to me.

Suffice to say: I think you're digging laughably deep if you think a single throwaway line that was intended to have been written by a very fallible in-universe character(Lois Lane) somehow retcons all of Superman's previous battles into him pulling each and every punch he's thrown... Especially when Superman himself made it quite clear nearly 2 years ago(in Superman #13) that he was going to stop holding back:
http://imgur.com/08EyDYb
"My recent encounter with Helspont made me realize I need to push myself further than I have before."

Epicurus
Originally posted by abhilegend
That's what not holding back means under Pak. Its a lulzworthy feat even for me. Superman went from getting his face turned into paste to straight up tearing doomsday in half.

And then Pak goes and gives Doomsday feats like punching and breaking ****ing Phantom Zone.

no expression
What are you talking about? Pak wrote down that scene exactly the way this trope is played out in every other fictional media.

No need to put your own twist on it.

ares834
Originally posted by Galan007
First off: where is that source from? Certainly a published comic, I hope..?

Action Comics 31.

Galan007
Thanks, ares. thumb up

I must have skimmed right over that last week.

abhilegend
Originally posted by Galan007
First off: where is that source from? Certainly a published comic, I hope..?

Secondly: 'never before witnessed' by who, exactly? Lois and co.? That sounds like a very subjective statement to me.

Suffice to say: I think you're digging laughably deep if you think a single throwaway line that was intended to have been written by a very fallible in-universe character(Lois Lane) somehow retcons all of Superman's previous battles into him pulling each and every punch he's thrown... Especially when Superman himself made it quite clear nearly 2 years ago(in Superman #13) that he was going to stop holding back:
http://imgur.com/08EyDYb
"My recent encounter with Helspont made me realize I need to push myself further than I have before."
Action Comics 31. The opening page.

Written by the same author who wrote the comic.

And he didn't know his limits in Superman 13 either. Or do I have to post the scans of Veritas saying so?

What you're doing is essentially "I don't like it so I discard it saying its a throwaway line."

And Lois knows every secret of Superman since she gained her psi-powers.

thumb up

Galan007
Yes, because trying to use an extremely ambiguous in-universe blurb as a means to retcon every single battle Superman has had up to this point, just makes so much logical sense, right? Keep digging, though... Maybe one day you'll hit oil. thumb up

Anywho, I'd be more than happy to get a mod ruling on the subject if you'd like..? smile

abhilegend
Originally posted by Epicurus
What are you talking about? Pak wrote down that scene exactly the way this trope is played out in every other fictional media.

No need to put your own twist on it.
Not really. But I don't want to argue whatever you think it was.

Its pretty clearly deemed as an all out strength showing though.

Epicurus
Originally posted by abhilegend
Not really. But I don't want to argue whatever you think it was.

Its pretty clearly deemed as an all out strength showing though.
It was a wtf-impossible-to-perform feat, no matter how much you want to pretend that Superman was just holding back.

What relevancy does that have? I guess the next time the Surfer manages to kill a couple of Proemial Gods, we'll just go ahead and say that he was holding back in all previous showings, right?

abhilegend
Originally posted by Galan007
Yes, because trying to use an extremely ambiguous in-universe blurb as a means to retcon every single battle Superman has had up to this point, just makes so much logical sense, right? Keep digging, though... Maybe one day you'll hit oil. thumb up

Anywho, I'd be more than happy to get a mod ruling on the subject if you'd like..? smile
Ambiguous? In what sense exactly? And its not like writers haven't done such retcons. Remember HOTM and No Limits where Pak and Loeb retconned every showing Superman or Hulk had as holding back? Yeah, that's what it is. Dismissing it as "blurb" or "throwaway" isn't an argument.

If that's what you like, go for it.

thumb up

abhilegend
Originally posted by Epicurus
It was a wtf-impossible-to-perform feat, no matter how much you want to pretend that Superman was just holding back.

What relevancy does that have? I guess the next time the Surfer manages to kill a couple of Proemial Gods, we'll just go ahead and say that he was holding back in all previous showings, right?
Just like plowing through imperiex probes. Yet, writers have made Superman perform such feats because he stopped holding back.


When Surfer kills them with his own power, call me. But throwing strawman arguments again?

laughing out loud

Epicurus
Originally posted by abhilegend
Just like plowing through imperiex probes. Yet, writers have made Superman perform such feats because he stopped holding back.


When Surfer kills them with his own power, call me. But throwing strawman arguments again?

laughing out loud
But he wasn't holding back here. And the imperiex probe stuff is totally incomparable to this one, considering the different circumstances.

He did kill them under his own power. How is comparing 2 Cthullu-punchout feats a strawman?

Come on. erm

Galan007
Originally posted by abhilegend
Ambiguous? In what sense exactly? Like I said earlier: 'never before witnessed' by who, exactly? Lois and co.? The earth? The universe? The omniverse? WHO? That is very subjective/ambiguous.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Dismissing it as "blurb" or "throwaway" isn't an argument. An ambiguous, throwaway blurb is EXACTLY what that qualifies as. You're simply trying to glorify that line because you think it makes your pet character look better. Sorry, but that simply isn't sufficient evidence to retcon every single battle Superman has had thus far... Not by a long shot.

Originally posted by abhilegend
If that's what you like, go for it. If you keep pressing the issue, I'll contact Bada and Pr first thing in the morning and let them squash this. smile

Epicurus
Originally posted by abhilegend
Ambiguous? In what sense exactly? And its not like writers haven't done such retcons. Remember HOTM and No Limits where Pak and Loeb retconned every showing Superman or Hulk had as holding back? Yeah, that's what it is. Dismissing it as "blurb" or "throwaway" isn't an argument.

If that's what you like, go for it.

thumb up
But it wasn't even mentioned in that feat that he was holding back.

It's just an outlierish high-end feat. To be expected when written under Pak.





On a sidenote, I wonder where Philosophia and Juntai are at. Superman-fans hate Pak for his Hulk writing, but as soon as Superman starts getting over the top feats, all of that is ignored.

Galan007
^ Glad I'm not the only one who has noticed that. thumb up

abhilegend
Originally posted by Epicurus
But he wasn't holding back here. And the imperiex probe stuff is totally incomparable to this one, considering the different circumstances.

He did kill them under his own power. How is comparing 2 Cthullu-punchout feats a strawman?

Come on. erm
What? How is this incomparable to Probes scene? Superman goes from barely making the probes dent to plowing right through them. Just like here.

I didn't know crunch energies are Surfer's own power.

Come on what? You're trying to dismiss Superman having a high end feat when Superman was actually weakened when he performed that feat. He passed out just after that FFS.

Originally posted by Galan007
Like I said earlier: 'never before witnessed' by who, exactly? Lois and co.? The earth? The universe? The omniverse? WHO? That is very subjective/ambiguous.

An ambiguous, throwaway blurb is EXACTLY what that qualifies as. You're simply trying to glorify that line because you think it makes your pet character look better. Sorry, but that simply isn't sufficient evidence to retcon every single battle Superman has had thus far... Not by a long shot.

If you keep pressing the issue, I'll contact Bada and Pr first thing in the morning and let them squash this. smile

Its simply to inform the readers what actually happened in the comic. No different than a summary of a previous comic. Its not ambiguous in the least.

Again with a "blurb" or "throwaway"? That's not an argument, its a way to dismiss on panel proofs. Can't say I'm surprised though.

Squash? We'll see.
Originally posted by Epicurus
But it wasn't even mentioned in that feat that he was holding back.

It's just an outlierish high-end feat. To be expected when written under Pak.





On a sidenote, I wonder where Philosophia and Juntai are at. Superman-fans hate Pak for his Hulk writing, but as soon as Superman starts getting over the top feats, all of that is ignored.
laughing out loud

Superman was actually weakened when he tore Doomsday apart, and going all out is a FAR better explanation than he simply tore apart Doomsday for no reason at all. But going from getting dominated in h2h to tearing someone apart with his bare hands in just a high end feat? Have you seen any other top tier having done such a feat?

Diesldude
What Apollo did to superman is many magnitudes less than what Helspont did. Helspont gave superman a concussion, while Apollo just back handed him away.

Superman is 250lbs and a class 100 being should be able to swat him away using a cheap shot. If it had knocked superman out, I would have given him the win. But all it did was to confirm to superman that he didn't have to hold back.

On the flip side, I can say that Apollo did alot more damage to FB than to superman. FB's skin was burned to a crisp, granted it didn't knock him out, but Apollo didn't knock out Superman either. The same attack powered superman and he then treated Apollo like a feeble human.

Superman beats the glorified Hercules.

Diesldude
Originally posted by Epicurus
But it wasn't even mentioned in that feat that he was holding back.

It's just an outlierish high-end feat. To be expected when written under Pak.





On a sidenote, I wonder where Philosophia and Juntai are at. Superman-fans hate Pak for his Hulk writing, but as soon as Superman starts getting over the top feats, all of that is ignored.

I don't know why you would think that, I actually loved planet hulk and believe it or not, HOM Hulk. You can search my post history and I posted scans from those comics that no one else has.

deathslash
Originally posted by Diesldude
What Apollo did to superman is many magnitudes less than what Helspont did. Helspont gave superman a concussion, while Apollo just back handed him away.

Superman is 250lbs and a class 100 being should be able to swat him away using a cheap shot. If it had knocked superman out, I would have given him the win. But all it did was to confirm to superman that he didn't have to hold back.

On the flip side, I can say that Apollo did alot more damage to FB than to superman. FB's skin was burned to a crisp, granted it didn't knock him out, but Apollo didn't knock out Superman either. The same attack powered superman and he then treated Apollo like a feeble human.

Superman beats the glorified Hercules. Wow...........there are all sorts of things wrong with what you just said. You're ignoring that Apollo swatted superman away like he was a gnat and and FB demolished Apollo physically. You also went so far as to ignore that First Born had been tortured for god knows how long and was severely weakened before Apollo even began blasting him. You also ignored that Apollo's blasts only powered superman because they were sunlight. Meanwhile, FB didn't have the luxury of being a solar battery and he still tanked all of Apollo's blasts. So basically, you're thinking that Superman wins because he had less damage done to him and you're saying that First Born loses because he was hurt more in his fight with Apollo (even though he was severely weakened)

psycho gundam
Originally posted by abhilegend
The gamma prophet, Greg Pak has betrayed church of gamma.

http://i.imgur.com/OTi7WC7.jpg

Come join House of El gundam. Pak isn't writing hulk anymore and from what i hear he's getting his ass kicked by abomination among other far-lesser than green scar showings. big deal.

nah. all you house of el people know how each other tastes. huge pass on that

Diesldude
Originally posted by deathslash
Wow...........there are all sorts of things wrong with what you just said. You're ignoring that Apollo swatted superman away like he was a gnat and and FB demolished Apollo physically. You also went so far as to ignore that First Born had been tortured for god knows how long and was severely weakened before Apollo even began blasting him. You also ignored that Apollo's blasts only powered superman because they were sunlight. Meanwhile, FB didn't have the luxury of being a solar battery and he still tanked all of Apollo's blasts. So basically, you're thinking that Superman wins because he had less damage done to him and you're saying that First Born loses because he was hurt more in his fight with Apollo (even though he was severely weakened)

You misunderstood, Apollo got one sneaky cheap shot on superman and people are assuming that is how he stands with superman while he got demolished by FB, thus giving fb the edge.

Didn't WW beat up Apollo ? Same ww who got destroyed by doomsday that got torn by superman?

I did say that superman was harmed much less than fb and is much more durable. I also know that sounds ludicrous because superman got charged by that type of attack by Apollo but it's just as ludicrous as using the cheap shot smack to gauge strength levels.

Epicurus
Originally posted by abhilegend
What? How is this incomparable to Probes scene? Superman goes from barely making the probes dent to plowing right through them. Just like here.

I didn't know crunch energies are Surfer's own power.

Come on what? You're trying to dismiss Superman having a high end feat when Superman was actually weakened when he performed that feat. He passed out just after that FFS.

He wasn't weakened in the Probes scene. As I said before. Different circumstances. Different Superman.

Maniping energies which even Galactus couldn't allegedly control is a feat in itself. He did that and then used that juice to kill the Proemial Gods, hence the feat was performed under his own power. Though nice attempt to deflect from the fact that it's a WTF-feat, just like Superman's.

I am not doing anything of the sort. I am dismissing your self-made twist on the feat that Superman holds back in every previous showing. He had to exert quite a bit to do what he did to Doomsday, as the panels themselves showcase.

Not holding back, as much as it is him pushing his limits further. This isn't a matter of reading comprehension, just basic English. Come on man.
Originally posted by abhilegend

Superman was actually weakened when he tore Doomsday apart, and going all out is a FAR better explanation than he simply tore apart Doomsday for no reason at all. But going from getting dominated in h2h to tearing someone apart with his bare hands in just a high end feat? Have you seen any other top tier having done such a feat?
I know he was weakened. So now it's going all out instead of holding back? Listen, not holding back isn't the same thing as what the narrative suggests the character did in this instance. The words "in a never before seen display of brute strength" should be sufficient indicators for that. It's identical to Goji's ending fight scene against the MUTO.

TBH, it's a stretch to use this outlierish feat to claim that Superman can easily beat FB.

Epicurus
Originally posted by Diesldude
I don't know why you would think that, I actually loved planet hulk and believe it or not, HOM Hulk. You can search my post history and I posted scans from those comics that no one else has.
When I mention superman-fans, I mean the more ardent ones. Not the neutral dudes like Pr, Zack Fair, JaketheBank and you.

abhilegend
Originally posted by Epicurus
He wasn't weakened in the Probes scene. As I said before. Different circumstances. Different Superman. That's why it can't be anything like a high end feat. Superman simply dug in, went all out and even in a weakened state ripped apart Doomsday in half.

Its not HIS own power which killed those. Nice strawman argument as always. Surfer has nothing to do with this thread.

And hence he was going all out just like Pak stated in AC 31. But as you said "dismissing", that's what you're doing here. Dismissing a feat just because you don't like it.

Bwahaha. This is just a terrible case of downplaying. But keep it up, I would see some more strawman arguments soon.

WTF are you talking about? I always said its him going all out. And that's exactly what the narration states. Haven't seen the movie.

And that's the real motive of all this strawman argument. Dismissing the feat as outlandish, when Superman was in fact weakened and can easily go that level when he is fully powered. But keep going chump.

abhilegend
Originally posted by psycho gundam
Pak isn't writing hulk anymore and from what i hear he's getting his ass kicked by abomination among other far-lesser than green scar showings. big deal.

nah. all you house of el people know how each other tastes. huge pass on that
Pak is talking about his own hulk writing. Good try.

We're not Gammatards gundam. Keep your fantasies to yourself.

Philosophía
Originally posted by Galan007
Like I said earlier: 'never before witnessed' by who, exactly? Lois and co.? The earth? The universe? The omniverse? WHO? That is very subjective/ambiguous.

An ambiguous, throwaway blurb is EXACTLY what that qualifies as. You're simply trying to glorify that line because you think it makes your pet character look better. Sorry, but that simply isn't sufficient evidence to retcon every single battle Superman has had thus far... Not by a long shot.

If you keep pressing the issue, I'll contact Bada and Pr first thing in the morning and let them squash this. smile I'll squash this for you. Superman himself, before the fight with Doomsday:

"Now it's my turn. To cut loose like never before."

http://i593.photobucket.com/albums/tt19/Max_Eisenhardt/th_Superman-Doomed001-021_zps0b72f8ae.jpg

You're welcome.

Galan007
It needs to be a cheese analogy for me to understand. thumb up

Philosophía
Your argument had more holes in it than a swiss cheese.

Better?

Galan007
Still not cheesy enough. thumb down

Glad you finally came out of hiding, though. This forum wasn't quite as...sharp...without you. thumb up

Philosophía
I barely have time to keep up with the comics I like, sadly. I won't stay active.

Hit me up with a PM from time to time, you unloving as*hole.

Galan007
Did you catch the conclusion of FE, at least? Talk about lackluster. thumb down

Philosophía
Yeah, that was awful.

And for all the pre-event interview Johns had, of how interesting themes and relations will be explored (I really wanted to see Sinestro/Black Adam), nothing was there, except some cheesy panels.

I'm not even excited for Anti-Monitor.

Galan007
Nor am I. The fact that AM evidently requires universal amps just to contend with the same Darkseid whom the rookie JL was able to fend off, strikes me as absolutely ridiculous. AM should(and rightfully so) be at the absolute peak of cosmic power. Darkseid shouldn't be even remotely comparable to him. I'm actually surprised that Johns is wanking DS this much.

Philosophía
Meh, Johns. The line between high-heralds and skyfather or higher is pretty blurry for him.

*flashbacks to Wildcat duking it out with Mordru*

http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss146/rohan_1294/2nauteg.gif

At least Superman will now beat the breaks off of Universal+ beings and show off his true power standing.

-Pr-
Where the **** have you been?

Philosophía
College , work and other stuff. Barely have time for myself right now, sadly.

I'm still going to furiously masturbate to X-Men Days of Future Past tomorrow night, though.

bluewaterrider
Originally posted by Epicurus

When I mention superman-fans, I mean the more ardent ones. Not the neutral dudes like Pr, Zack Fair, JaketheBank and you.


erm

Pr's about as neutral on Superman topics as the Tea Party is concerning taxes.

I'll be the first to say Pr is generally reserved and respectful of people, however, which many of the fans you're calling "ardent" are not.

Galan007
Pr's as non-biased as an avid Superman fan can get. abhi, however, is the exact opposite of that... The Yin to Pr's Yang, if you will.

LordofBrooklyn
Originally posted by psycho gundam
nah. all you house of el people know how each other tastes. huge pass on that

WATCH YOUR FILTHY MOUTH, BANNER *****!!!

mad

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by psycho gundam
I just want to fight Abhil , I know it's a no sequitur but that's life. gutless

laughing out loud

psycho gundam
Originally posted by abhilegend
Pak is talking about his own hulk writing. Good try.

We're not Gammatards gundam. Keep your fantasies to yourself. confirmation bias x incompetence = abhilegend

Epicurus
Originally posted by abhilegend
That's why it can't be anything like a high end feat. Superman simply dug in, went all out and even in a weakened state ripped apart Doomsday in half.

Its not HIS own power which killed those. Nice strawman argument as always. Surfer has nothing to do with this thread.

And hence he was going all out just like Pak stated in AC 31. But as you said "dismissing", that's what you're doing here. Dismissing a feat just because you don't like it.

Bwahaha. This is just a terrible case of downplaying. But keep it up, I would see some more strawman arguments soon.

WTF are you talking about? I always said its him going all out. And that's exactly what the narration states. Haven't seen the movie.

And that's the real motive of all this strawman argument. Dismissing the feat as outlandish, when Superman was in fact weakened and can easily go that level when he is fully powered. But keep going chump.
Except that is exactly what a high-end feat is supposed to be. Or do you want me to go a step further and highlight Thor vs Glory as another pointer of how achieving a seemingly impossible feat doesn't mean that you hold back in all previous showings? Because I am pretty sure that no Thor fan in their right mind would go about claiming that a non-holding back Thor operates at skyfather levels?

His own power controlled and tamed these energies, which were powerful enough to kill them and were allegedly beyond even Galactus' power. Not per se, but as a comparative analogy of WTF-feats, he is revelant.

I clearly said that I dismiss your notion that he was holding back in prior encounters. Learn to read.

It's not downplaying, as much as it's pointing out something obvious which others agree with me upon. Sorry, but being a crazy-jane insane fanboy like you isn't a crime, last I checked.


No, you said that he holds back in previous encounters based on this single feat. Do you not remember your own posts 2 pages prior in this very thread?

Ugh. Outlier-ish. Not outlandish. Your awful reading comprehension is an insult to the collective intelligence of humanity, and this ridiculous Superman-fueled paranoia is childish. Grow up.

Blue Area Vet
Wow, I took a break from the board for football, but I see dear abbi is up to his old tricks. Obviously LYING about on panel visual proof is a poor deterant. Super spankage remains in effect.

Blue Area Vet
Originally posted by bluewaterrider
erm

Pr's about as neutral on Superman topics as the Tea Party is concerning taxes.

I'll be the first to say Pr is generally reserved and respectful of people, however, which many of the fans you're calling "ardent" are not.

Amen. There is no question as to his loyalty.

-Pr-

9jaboy
Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
Wow, I took a break from the board for football, but I see dear abbi is up to his old tricks. Obviously LYING about on panel visual proof is a poor deterant. Super spankage remains in effect.


where did he lie?

abhilegend

abhilegend
Originally posted by Galan007
Pr's as non-biased as an avid Superman fan can get. abhi, however, is the exact opposite of that... The Yin to Pr's Yang, if you will. Originally posted by psycho gundam
confirmation bias x incompetence = abhilegend
facepalm

Khazra Reborn
We probably shouldn't go too crazy with this Doomsday stuff, it looks like uncuffed Diana is going to take down Doomsday infected Superman.

DarkSaint85
Go crazy.

The tears will be that much sweeter.

Juntai
Originally posted by Epicurus
But it wasn't even mentioned in that feat that he was holding back.

It's just an outlierish high-end feat. To be expected when written under Pak.





On a sidenote, I wonder where Philosophia and Juntai are at. Superman-fans hate Pak for his Hulk writing, but as soon as Superman starts getting over the top feats, all of that is ignored. You rang?

Branlor Swift
Phildo, Juntai, MrSmiley, Long Pig, and probably others all returned around the same time.

Interesting.

-Pr-
laughing out loud

psycho gundam
Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Phildo, Juntai, MrSmiley, Long Pig, and probably others all returned around the same time.

Interesting. Brb. Gonna say "Tricksterpriest" in a mirror 5 times

Branlor Swift
Originally posted by psycho gundam
Brb. Gonna say "Tricksterpriest" in a mirror 5 times I want Superchangeling back. That guy was pretty alright.

psycho gundam
what's the context of that conversation in your sig?

Branlor Swift
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=575354

Epicurus
Originally posted by abhilegend
Not when they are explicitly going all out.

And that counts as a high-end feat.
Originally posted by abhilegend

If they are explicitly stated to go all out and did it under their power?
He was reaching a new level of power here though. That's not the same as holding back.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Why not?
Read above.
Originally posted by abhilegend
You'd be surprised.
I really wouldn't.

Originally posted by abhilegend
But if Thor goes all out and starts oneshotting people like Silver Surfer like he did in B&T, its not high end feat.
That's funny because I consider it to be a high-end feat, since the Surfer was blood-lusted as well in that encounter. Under ordinary circumstances, I don't expect Thor to one-shot his peers. That's Rage's fanboyish MO, not mine.

But anyways, what Superman did here isn't the same thing as bloodlusted Thor tooling the Infinity Watch. It's more like a Thor reaching within his core to unlock a higher level of power never seen before, to defeat a seemingly unbeatable opponent ala Glory. Which is exactly what Superman did with this Doomsday who was stated to be capable of killing him.
Originally posted by abhilegend

He's just not holding back anymore.

There is nothing to indicate that he was holding back in previous encounters.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Notreally. He just redirected the flow of power. Since he doesn't has crunch energies in a forum fight, its not relevant in any sense.
He channeled the power through his body and used it to kill T&A. Something which Galactus allegedly couldn't do.

Feat's a feat. No matter how much mental gymnastics you try to employ to discredit it.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Then you might as well discard Superman's own words.
As never before. Meaning he has cut loose before, just not like how he did with Doomsday. Which is why the summarization of this feat also tells us that this isn't just a simple matter of him ceasing to hold back, it's him
Originally posted by abhilegend
Just pointless drivel as always. But carry on with your random strawman arguments.
You need to look up the definitions of the terms "pointless drivel" and "strawman arguments" on wikipedia. Come back to thank me later.
Originally posted by abhilegend
And?
Him cutting loose and him not holding back aren't necessarily the same thing. Only a simplistic mind would presume that.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Auto-correct. But that's beyond your ability to understand. Keep trying to dismiss on panel facts like a petulant child.

thumb up
Excuses. Says the guy with reading comprehension which insults the collective intelligence of humanity.

For the bazillionth time, I am dismissing your ridiculous take on the feat, not the feat itself. Read and comprehend. You need to take a crash course in that, brolio.

Epicurus
Originally posted by Juntai
You rang?
Glad you answered.smile

psycho gundam
Originally posted by Branlor Swift
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=575354 lmao, but I meant the superman panel

Branlor Swift
Originally posted by psycho gundam
lmao, but I meant the superman panel FE 7 and reaffirmed in the Justice League issue that came out alongside it.

Darkseid is apparently so powerful that he can destroy a planet, a feat completely out of the grasp of anyone in the Justice League or any living enemies.

Juntai
Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Phildo, Juntai, MrSmiley, Long Pig, and probably others all returned around the same time.

Interesting. They're my alts, obvs.

Juntai
Originally posted by Epicurus
Glad you answered.smile I don't really post anymore, but I'm never too far away. wink

Diesldude
Originally posted by Branlor Swift
FE 7 and reaffirmed in the Justice League issue that came out alongside it.

Darkseid is apparently so powerful that he can destroy a planet, a feat completely out of the grasp of anyone in the Justice League or any living enemies.

How is it that when Hyperion was stated to hold worlds apart it was meant as universes but when its stated that darkseid can destroy worlds it equates to planets?

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by Diesldude
How is it that when Hyperion was stated to hold worlds apart it was meant as universes but when its stated that darkseid can destroy worlds it equates to planets?

Lmao.

This can't a serious post.

psycho gundam
Originally posted by Diesldude
How is it that when Hyperion was stated to hold worlds apart it was meant as universes but when its stated that darkseid can destroy worlds it equates to planets? I'm glad that I played a part in this post coming to be smile

Diesldude
Originally posted by psycho gundam
I'm glad that I played a part in this post coming to be smile

If anyone deserves credit, its bran. thumb up



Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Lmao.

This can't a serious post.

Branlor Swift
Originally posted by Diesldude
How is it that when Hyperion was stated to hold worlds apart it was meant as universes but when its stated that darkseid can destroy worlds it equates to planets? you raise a terrible nonsensical point.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by Branlor Swift
you raise a terrible nonsensical point.

Its on point.

Dieseldude has uncovered a MArvel biased conspiracy.

Good job catching it thumb up the two things were equal to each other.

Blue Area Vet
Originally posted by Branlor Swift
FE 7 and reaffirmed in the Justice League issue that came out alongside it.

Darkseid is apparently so powerful that he can destroy a planet, a feat completely out of the grasp of anyone in the Justice League or any living enemies.

Should be clear to everyone. Should be.

psycho gundam
abhi coincidentally hasn't shown up on the forums since. he's probably stalking pak on anon asking incessantly how and if he will rectify this effrontery

panthergod
The 'world' being reffered to was a devestated universe. That's not arguable.

Branlor Swift
Originally posted by panthergod
The 'world' being reffered to was a devestated universe. That's not arguable. I must have missed when Darkseid destroyed a universe.

Diesldude
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Its on point.

Dieseldude has uncovered a MArvel biased conspiracy.

Good job catching it thumb up the two things were equal to each other.

Bran has a point because it was shown on panel that Darkseid destroyed a planet and so "world" can only mean a planet.

It was a stupid statement to make by the writer and really lowballs everyone in DCU.

But as per my new sig, i don't believe that Hyperion kept 2 universes apart either.

psycho gundam
And the ironic sentence underneath that sig is duly noted thumb up

Diesldude
Originally posted by psycho gundam
And the ironic sentence underneath that sig is duly noted thumb up

Right and look who's looking for an argument? thumb up

JBL
WOW, they don't have enough strength or power to destroy a world? How sad the cats out of the bag so soon.

LordofBrooklyn
Originally posted by JBL
WOW, they don't have enough strength or power to destroy a world? How sad the cats out of the bag so soon.

SHUT YOUR MOUTH, HERETIC!

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by Branlor Swift
I must have missed when Darkseid destroyed a universe.

No, no, no.

Even though it was specifically referred to as a world (By the same writer, twice, in two different issues) and we've seen that Darkseid's power while impressive is around planetary destruction, we need to assume what Wonder Woman and Superman really meant when they said only Darkseid has the power to destroy a world (Twice, in two different issues), they meant Universe.

Why? Well, because Superman, that's why.

The best part is that Anti-Monitor was standing in the remains of a devastated Earth. Imagine if you suggested that the word Universe actually meant Earth. You'd hear rape whistles going off.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
And the ironic sentence underneath that sig is duly noted thumb up

Lol.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by Diesldude
How is it that when Hyperion was stated to hold worlds apart it was meant as universes but when its stated that darkseid can destroy worlds it equates to planets? Originally posted by Diesldude
Bran has a point because it was shown on panel that Darkseid destroyed a planet and so "world" can only mean a planet.

It was a stupid statement to make by the writer and really lowballs everyone in DCU.

But as per my new sig, i don't believe that Hyperion kept 2 universes apart either.

LOL.

He's mad that DC "lowballed" their heroes so he's going to throw a good old fashioned tantrum and pretend Hyperion's feat was limited to only two planets.

-Pr-
Guys, this is getting a bit carried away. Try to actually get back on topic.

psycho gundam
that's not entirely off topic

Originally posted by Diesldude
Right and look who's looking for an argument? thumb up


this sounds like you have something to argue

Originally posted by Diesldude
But as per my new sig, i don't believe that Hyperion kept 2 universes apart either.

h1a8
Actual feats>>>>>>>> Any writer's comments.
Superman has feats of bench-pressing the Earth. It takes more force to lift a planet than to destroy it. This is common sense.
But again, Superman is not going to unleash that type of strength in general. Only in critical situations will he do so (like ripping DD apart).

JBL
Originally posted by h1a8
Actual feats>>>>>>>> Any writer's comments.
Superman has feats of bench-pressing the Earth. It takes more force to lift a planet than to destroy it. This is common sense.
But again, Superman is not going to unleash that type of strength in general. Only in critical situations will he do so (like ripping DD apart). He was benching on a machine that some unknown woman claimed was the weight of the planet, superman never benched the Earth itself and actual feats thereafter shows that that woman may have been lying. Funny how you take the word of a unknown comic character and try and dismiss the words of of superman and the writer because its not to your liking... Some unknown woman makes a claim and its all gravy because you like it...... But then out of superman's own mouth and the writers intents, comes a statement you dont like so you get all twisted. Also, it takes FAR FAR more strength to destroy something than lifting it. go lift a watermelon and then try and crush it and see which requires the most force. stick out tongue

Epicurus
Originally posted by JBL
He was benching on a machine that some unknown woman claimed was the weight of the planet, superman never benched the Earth itself and actual feats thereafter shows that that woman may have been lying. Funny how you take the word of a unknown comic character and try and dismiss the words of of superman and the writer because its not to your liking... Some unknown woman makes a claim and its all gravy because you like it...... But then out of superman's own mouth and the writers intents, comes a statement you dont like so you get all twisted. Also, it takes FAR FAR more strength to destroy something than lifting it. go lift a watermelon and then try and crush it and see which requires the most force. stick out tongue
That "unknown woman" was a bigshot scientist.erm

I guess that the asteroid which Grey Hulk destroyed was wasn't twice the size of the Earth since unknown people claimed it was. roll eyes (sarcastic)

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by Epicurus
That "unknown woman" was a bigshot scientist.erm

I guess that the asteroid which Grey Hulk destroyed was wasn't twice the size of the Earth since unknown people claimed it was. roll eyes (sarcastic)

He's mocking h1's logic (I think....) of dismissing Superman and Wonder Woman saying only Darkseid can destroy a world while using the planet benching feat as a conclusive benchmark of power.

Epicurus
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
He's mocking h1's logic (I think....) of dismissing Superman and Wonder Woman saying only Darkseid can destroy a world while using the planet benching feat as a conclusive benchmark of power.
Nah, h1 was referencing writer statements, not character statements in his post.

JBL wasn't trying to showcase h1 the inevitable faulty nature of his logic. JBL was doing what JBL does; use any instance as an excuse to piss all over Superman and DC chars in general.

pym-ftw
Both H1 & JBL are wrong.

Epicurus
Originally posted by pym-ftw
Both H1 & JBL are wrong.
thumb up

JBL
Originally posted by Epicurus
Nah, h1 was referencing writer statements, not character statements in his post.

JBL wasn't trying to showcase h1 the inevitable faulty nature of his logic. JBL was doing what JBL does; use any instance as an excuse to piss all over Superman and DC chars in general. Not even close. The asteriod that grey hulk destroyed was seen, get it? seen. The people did not say that grey hulk hit some machine with enough force to destroy an object twice the size of earth, hulk destroyed the actual asteriod. Superman did not bench the actual earth, so a statement was made and people ran with it as fact... Now a statement comes along that none of the JLA members have enough strength to destroy a world and all of a sudden statements NOW means nothing and are dismissed. So its ok to accept that womans statement because it make superman look good right? But low and behold the statement that superman is not strong or powerful enough to destroy a world is sooooo heartbreaking to you that its considered pissing on superman and DC characters right? As long as the feat or statement puts a smile on supes fans face its ok to rant about them huh? But it hurts when the feats or statement that his fans dont like get mentioned huh? Seems to me this is the classic case of if its superman, we must treat all his threads as if its his Respect thread. Only the good feats and statements count and the hell with what his fans dont like huh? Got it, thanks for pointing that out wink

Epicurus
Originally posted by JBL
Not even close. The asteriod that grey hulk destroyed was seen, get it? seen. The people did not say that grey hulk hit some machine with enough force to destroy an object twice the size of earth, hulk destroyed the actual asteriod. Superman did not bench the actual earth, so a statement was made and people ran with it as fact... Now a statement comes along that none of the JLA members have enough strength to destroy a world and all of a sudden statements NOW means nothing and are dismissed. So its ok to accept that womans statement because it make superman look good right? But low and behold the statement that superman is not strong or powerful enough to destroy a world is sooooo heartbreaking to you that its considered pissing on superman and DC characters right? As long as the feat or statement puts a smile on supes fans face its ok to rant about them huh? But it hurts when the feats or statement that his fans dont like get mentioned huh? Seems to me this is the classic case of if its superman, we must treat all his threads as if its his Respect thread. Only the good feats and statements count and the hell with what his fans dont like huh? Got it, thanks for pointing that out wink
It was seen through big ass telescopes. Which are machines, technically speaking.

Which in turn makes you a hypocritical moron, technically speaking.

JBL
Originally posted by Epicurus
It was seen through big ass telescopes. Which are machines, technically speaking.

Which in turn makes you a hypocritical moron, technically speaking. Insults have ever been the defeated last resort, concession accepted and filed under butthurt case number 32876. wink

Epicurus
Originally posted by JBL
Insults have ever been the defeated last resort, concession accepted and filed under butthurt case number 32876. wink
laughing out loud

Anyways, Firstborn wins.

-Pr-
Guys, get back on topic. Now.

The "only Darkseid can destroy a world" thing, is pointless, and isn't usable as fact, because it's a character statement, and characters within comics are faillible.

There's enough evidence from both companies to back that up, so please, move on.

celeyhyga17
Originally posted by abhilegend
No, it wasn't. She sealed it by herself. Mongul/Non weren't able to even slow down the rift because they were weakened.

Means very little. Two top tiers doing something would look casual, its nothing to do with individual strength.

She did it and its Pak. Its always simple for him.

Breaching=/=closing.

And Doomsday is definitely FAR above top tier.
Gotta be kidding me with this. sad

Reminds me of the time you actually tried to argue that Supes was the only one pulling in this situation. It was almost as if you were blind to any other character on the page. laughing out loud

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/6/60473/1736497-1383462_944172_supermanliftingstrength2_super.jpg

Anyways... Still taking First Born.

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