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1.H2H, both can amp punches
2.Both use full powers and abilities, no BFR
3.BFR on

Who wins?

Surfer stomps all 3.

Current Apocalypse destroys him.

Originally posted by carver9
Current Apocalypse destroys him.

The one that's dead?

Surfer

Originally posted by Kazenji
The one that's dead?

By plot device that is currently killing off Celestials? Yep, you're right.

Apocalypse has a shot. He's a super-heavyweight. I think he needs more hands on battles to definitively say he'd beat a character like Surfer (or Thor) for a decisive majority. Since he usually acts through proxies rather than hands on his actual combat feat resume isn't that long, but he is in the weight class where he can go head up with and get the upperhand with someone like High Evolutionary who is demonstrably above Surfer (or Thor). If you want to take the approach of resume vs. resume, Surfer wins via usage and assemblage of feats. However I don't think it's that cut and dry.

*edit

I think Apocalypse wins the h2h though.

Surfer

Originally posted by MF DELPH
Apocalypse has a shot. He's a super-heavyweight. I think he needs more hands on battles to definitively say he'd beat a character like Surfer (or Thor) for a decisive majority. Since he usually acts through proxies rather than hands on his actual combat feat resume isn't that long, but he is in the weight class where he can go head up with and get the upperhand with someone like High Evolutionary who is demonstrably above Surfer (or Thor). If you want to take the approach of resume vs. resume, Surfer wins via usage and assemblage of feats. However I don't think it's that cut and dry.

*edit

I think Apocalypse wins the h2h though.

His last fight was against young Thor and he wrecked him in a way Gor couldn't. Apocalypse was the main reason the Celestial killing weapon was created and the crazy thing about it is, he handled that weapon better than any Celestial that was hit by the attack.

Thor handled it better than any celestials or Apocalypse did. The axe has a special enchantment against Celestials, its not a kill-all weapon.

Chronologically that wasn't his last fight, but that was his most recent appearance in a comic. The Prince Thor fight took place in the 11th Century AD. Chronologically his last showing was in Messiah Complex in the distant future when he no-sold Stryfe going all out on him, then double axe handled him and dragged him off to be his new host body. While I agree that 'theoretically' Apocalypse is intended to be herald+ level, he doesn't have enough fights against someone in the high herald and up weight class to gauge his true standing. He's somewhere in the range of Thor/Ikaris+ to High Evolutionary level.

As for the Jarnbjorn attack, Apocalypse isn't a Celestial, he just has Celestial Armor as their 'caretaker' (herald), so when he got chopped with the axe since he's not an energy being inside the armored shell he didn't dissipate.

I like Apocalypse (having a new found respect for him and his abilities) but Surfer can sweep all 3.

He's like Apocalypse+.

Originally posted by MF DELPH
Chronologically that wasn't his last fight, but that was his most recent appearance in a comic. The Prince Thor fight took place in the 11th Century AD. Chronologically his last showing was in Messiah Complex in the distant future when he no-sold Stryfe going all out on him, then double axe handled him and dragged him off to be his new host body. While I agree that 'theoretically' Apocalypse is intended to be herald+ level, he doesn't have enough fights against someone in the high herald and up weight class to gauge his true standing. He's somewhere in the range of Thor/Ikaris+ to High Evolutionary level.

As for the Jarnbjorn attack, Apocalypse isn't a Celestial, he just has Celestial Armor as their 'caretaker' (herald), so when he got chopped with the axe since he's not an energy being inside the armored shell he didn't dissipate.

What I meant was, that is his latest showing and his latest showings depicts him as above Herald levels. Hell, his followers, people that is below him in power is giving high Heralds long extended fights. Marvel view of Apocalypse has done a complete 360. Based off recent depictions, minus the Celestial slaying weapon, Surfer shouldn't have the capabilities of hurting him and the crazy thing about this is, I'm more of a Surfer fan than Zop.

Originally posted by carver9
By plot device that is currently killing off Celestials? Yep, you're right.



Think before you post.

Originally posted by MF DELPH
Apocalypse has a shot. He's a super-heavyweight. I think he needs more hands on battles to definitively say he'd beat a character like Surfer (or Thor) for a decisive majority. Since he usually acts through proxies rather than hands on his actual combat feat resume isn't that long, but he is in the weight class where he can go head up with and get the upperhand with someone like High Evolutionary who is demonstrably above Surfer (or Thor). If you want to take the approach of resume vs. resume, Surfer wins via usage and assemblage of feats. However I don't think it's that cut and dry.

*edit

I think Apocalypse wins the h2h though.

Originally posted by carver9
His last fight was against young Thor and he wrecked him in a way Gor couldn't. Apocalypse was the main reason the Celestial killing weapon was created and the crazy thing about it is, he handled that weapon better than any Celestial that was hit by the attack.

Gor fought a young Thor?

Yeah, multiple times. "Prince Thor" from the God Butcher Arc was the same Thor (Medeival Era) in Uncanny Avengers that Apocalypse went to kill through Kang's manipulation and led to Jarnbjorn being enchanted with the Celestial Slayer spell (that Kang provided to Prince Thor to use against Apocalypse).

Gorr had differing power levels dependent on how man gods he's butchered. When he fought young Thor he wasn't at his most powerful, like say near the end of the arc when he fought all three Thors.

Young Thor's struggle with Apoc was more so because he couldn't penetrate or break the Celestial armour. Once young Thor got Jarnborn though he messed Apoc pretty bad with one swing.

Originally posted by One-Punch
Gorr had differing power levels dependent on how man gods he's butchered. When he fought young Thor he wasn't at his most powerful, like say near the end of the arc when he fought all three Thors.

Young Thor's struggle with Apoc was more so because he couldn't penetrate or break the Celestial armour. Once young Thor got Jarnborn though he messed Apoc pretty bad with one swing.

But that's kind of the point. Surfer doesn't have the axe so how is he going to go about damaging Apocalypse through his Celestial armor?

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
But that's kind of the point. Surfer doesn't have the axe so how is he going to go about damaging Apocalypse through his Celestial armor?

That's the only thing I'm iffy about. Young Thor may not have done well against Apoc, but he's also not as powerful as Surfer. And Technically his celestial armour is destroyed...

Originally posted by One-Punch
That's the only thing I'm iffy about. Young Thor may not have done well against Apoc, but he's also not as powerful as Surfer. And Technically his celestial armour is destroyed...

Thor even during his young age was extremely powerful. Him not being able to cause pain or register to Apocalypse is a huge ft. This is something I can't see Surfer coming close to doing, let alone replicating anytime soon. Hell, it was even.stated that if Apocalypse headbutt Thor again. It would probably snap his neck/kill him.

Again, how is Surfer beating him? Thor and Kang had to resort to a weapon powerful enough to kill abstracts in order to take Apocalypse out.

Originally posted by carver9
Thor even during his young age was extremely powerful. Him not being able to cause pain or register to Apocalypse is a huge ft. This is something I can't see Surfer coming close to doing, let alone replicating anytime soon. Hell, it was even.stated that if Apocalypse headbutt Thor again. It would probably snap his neck/kill him.

Again, how is Surfer beating him? Thor and Kang had to resort to a weapon powerful enough to kill abstracts in order to take Apocalypse out.

A younger, less strong, less experienced, less powerful, and Mjolnirless Thor not being able to beat Apoc doesn't mean Surfer can't. By feats Surfer is much more powerful than young Thor.

The only thing Apoc has going for him is the armour. But like I said, unless Apoc carries a bunch of spares, his celestial armour is technically destroyed.

Originally posted by One-Punch
That's the only thing I'm iffy about. Young Thor may not have done well against Apoc, but he's also not as powerful as Surfer. And Technically his celestial armour is destroyed...

That's a bit of a misnomer (which Rage and I went back and forth about months ago). There's zero evidence that the armor was irreparably damaged, or that the armor Apocalypse subsequently employed was a lower grade (or a different armor entirely). Chronologically the encounter with Thor (in the 11th century) happened prior to Apocalypse's battle with High Evolutionary (Evolutionary War), and he had the armor (or a very adequate and capable facsimile) then as well.

Out of curiosity has Apoc's armour always been depicted the way it was in Uncanny?

Oops, double post.

Originally posted by One-Punch
A younger, less strong, less experienced, less powerful, and Mjolnirless Thor not being able to beat Apoc doesn't mean Surfer can't. By feats Surfer is much more powerful than young Thor.

The only thing Apoc has going for him is the armour. But like I said, unless Apoc carries a bunch of spares, his celestial armour is technically destroyed.

The same Thor withstood hits from Gor...was even powerful enough to take hits and harm Gor. This alone gives us an idea on how powerful this Thor is but yet, Apocalypse couldve removed his head from his spine with a single hit if it wasn't for Thor rolling with the punch.

http://i.imgur.com/t3ArWZV.jpg

A second headbutt from an Apocalypse that isn't even trying to kill Thor would kill him.

http://i.imgur.com/3QHVqVR.jpg

Like I've said before...even though this Thor isnt as powerful as his older self, he is still EXTREMELY powerful, to the point that he can withstand hits from trans level brings without faultering.

Originally posted by One-Punch
Out of curiosity has Apoc's armour always been depicted the way it was in Uncanny?

No.

Originally posted by One-Punch
Out of curiosity has Apoc's armour always been depicted the way it was in Uncanny?

As impenetrable, or with the specific statement of it being provided by the Celestials?

If the latter, no, because the fleshing out of Apocalypse as the "Evolutionary Caretaker" and the Death Seed/Life Seed/Apocalypse Armor origins are new retcons (previously Apocalypse had the armor crafted by Ship when he interfaced with it and learned all of it's secrets over a few centuries, then that was retconned into the Celestials outright giving the Ship to Apocalypse as their 'herald', and then most recently the armor is being depicted as being bestowed upon the Evolutionary Caretaker as a ceremonial rite. Previously it was simply Celestial Technology derived, now it's been retconned to being Celestial bestowed.

For the former, kind of. When at full power Apocalypse typically can't be harmed physically. It's usually via plot device (i.e., catching him in his regeneration chamber or a weakened state , or the time in The Twelve where the attempt to transform himself into a Celestial level being was botched and he was left in a vulnerable state due to merging with Cyclops). Most times when Apocalypse is on his game (and actually fights) he no sells everything thrown at him.

Except for lab tables.

Apoc wins the h2h with no question. Surfer can win via blackhole blasts and exotic means.

Originally posted by MF DELPH
Except for lab tables.
That lab table was Skyfather level...at least.

Originally posted by carver9
The same Thor withstood hits from Gor...was even powerful enough to take hits and harm Gor. This alone gives us an idea on how powerful this Thor is but yet, Apocalypse couldve removed his head from his spine with a single hit if it wasn't for Thor rolling with the punch.

http://i.imgur.com/t3ArWZV.jpg

A second headbutt from an Apocalypse that isn't even trying to kill Thor would kill him.

http://i.imgur.com/3QHVqVR.jpg

Like I've said before...even though this Thor isnt as powerful as his older self, he is still EXTREMELY powerful, to the point that he can withstand hits from trans level brings without faultering.
That was a younger Gorr who was not fully aware of what the annihiblade can do.

Also your first scan was a cheap-shot.

Originally posted by MF DELPH
That's a bit of a misnomer (which Rage and I went back and forth about months ago). There's zero evidence that the armor was irreparably damaged, or that the armor Apocalypse subsequently employed was a lower grade (or a different armor entirely). Chronologically the encounter with Thor (in the 11th century) happened prior to Apocalypse's battle with High Evolutionary (Evolutionary War), and he had the armor (or a very adequate and capable facsimile) then as well.

Based on everything we've seen, it's pretty likely that the armor IS irreparably damaged. That's kind of the whole point of the axe. Once Celestials are chopped up, nothing can put them back together again.

I don't know about previous incarnations but under Remender, the Celestial armor, the one Apocalypse was rocking against Young Thor, is a special suit gifted to the current Apocalypse by the Celestial Gardener when they receive their seed. This was noted when Holocaust was about to ascend to the throne of Apocalypse.

Yes, he has access to Celestial technology, but that doesn't mean he has all of their capabilities. As a matter of fact, the seeds which are associated with the armor were only in the possession of the Gardeners for example.

The entire point of Kang stealing the axe was so that he could kill every future Apocalypse -through their armor- as they ascend to the throne.

I've never seen any other portrayal suggesting that Apocalypse had Celestial armor. Sure, he has integrated Celestial tech or worn variations of Celestial armor and so on, but this directly compared to what actual Celestials wear.

It's not completely conclusive but I see absolutely no reason why anyone would think that Apocalypse has spares lying about or something based on everything Remender has written.

Originally posted by carver9
The same Thor withstood hits from Gor...was even powerful enough to take hits and harm Gor. This alone gives us an idea on how powerful this Thor is but yet, Apocalypse couldve removed his head from his spine with a single hit if it wasn't for Thor rolling with the punch.

http://i.imgur.com/t3ArWZV.jpg

A second headbutt from an Apocalypse that isn't even trying to kill Thor would kill him.

http://i.imgur.com/3QHVqVR.jpg

Like I've said before...even though this Thor isnt as powerful as his older self, he is still EXTREMELY powerful, to the point that he can withstand hits from trans level brings without faultering.

Lol, forgot how silly the narration was. Take off Thor's head? The punch knocked him off his feet momentarily. Break his spine? The headbutt barely broke skin. He then endures Apocalypse's heat vision unscathed and takes the axe way better. Not to mention how tough young Thor was in his own serious. He even withstood the heat of a Star.

I don't even know how the f*ck is Thor even conscious if Apocalypse can do that kind of damage to him. Just seems amusing and odd to me because Thor's skeleton structure is unusually tougher then his flesh historically. I get that he was still young though so whatever.

Either way, Apocalypse had to be hitting with above Herald power.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
That was a younger Gorr who was not fully aware of what the annihiblade can do.

Also your first scan was a cheap-shot.

And he rolled with the blow as stated per the scan. The second blow was head on and it still had the same affect.

Lets not pretend like young Thor didn't face an experienced Gor. He did and like I've said before, he withstood his licks, even during the time he was being tortured. Hell, at one point, he was knocking Gor around with the other Thors (but failed to budge Apocalypse).

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Lol, forgot how silly the narration was. Take off Thor's head? The punch knocked him off his feet momentarily. Break his spine? The headbutt barely broke skin. He then endures Apocalypse's heat vision unscathed and takes the axe way better. Not to mention how tough young Thor was in his own serious. He even withstood the heat of a Star.

I don't even know how the f*ck is Thor even conscious if Apocalypse can do that kind of damage to him. Just seems amusing and odd to me because Thor's skeleton structure is unusually tougher then his flesh historically. I get that he was still young though so whatever.

Either way, Apocalypse had to be hitting with above Herald power.

It's Thor. He doesn't believe in falling or giving up. I've seen people outright mount him and beat on him with repeated blows, but the next panel, he is up. The guy win the trophy for one of the best damage soak in comics. We still have to listen to the narration though (shrugs).

Originally posted by carver9
And he rolled with the blow as stated per the scan. The second blow was head on and it still had the same affect.

Lets not pretend like young Thor didn't face an experienced Gor. He did and like I've said before, he withstood his licks, even during the time he was being tortured. Hell, at one point, he was knocking Gor around with the other Thors (but failed to budge Apocalypse).
Wrong.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Wrong.

Sigh*... I enjoy proving people wrong. Please don't let me post the scans. What am I wrong about.?

Originally posted by carver9
Sigh*... I enjoy proving people wrong. Please don't let me post the scans. What am I wrong about.?
Read your scan again. He did not roll with the punch or at least did not willfully try to move out of the way. His inebriated state gave him the limberness(as per the scan) to absorb the blow. Basically he did not go into any form of defensive posture. The next page after even has Thor mocking Apoc for attacking while his opponent's head is turned back.

True young Thor was able to get a couple on Gorr. Don't forget it started from a sneak attack. Gorr was so preoccupied with Thor-father and Avenger Thor, Young Thor was able to get the drop on him. Other than that, he was completely ineffectual against Gorr.

Originally posted by carver9
By plot device that is currently killing off Celestials? Yep, you're right.
:

The Apoc twins?

unless you know something i don't know, Last i know he was dead and all thats left is the Clone named Genesis.

Poccy

It was a real high showing for apocalypse in that one issue vs young thor. He doesn't regularly operate with that much durability.

Silver Surfer , one showing from Apoc doesn't change his entire history

Originally posted by Insane Titan
Silver Surfer , one showing from Apoc doesn't change his entire history

Yes but in that history he also faced the level of Silver Surfer and held his own or even had the upper hand.

And his showing against an all out Stryfe was terrifying.

Originally posted by Xplosive
Yes but in that history he also faced the level of Silver Surfer and held his own or even had the upper hand.

And his showing against an all out Stryfe was terrifying. who?

You say that as if Stryfe is something impressive

Originally posted by Insane Titan
who?

You say that as if Stryfe is something impressive

Well he did face and was untouched by destructive power of X-Factor+Inhumans. He had the upper hand against High Evolutionary. He easily chocked Hulk. PE Ikaris was an easy match up for him.

Stryfe is an Omega Level Mutant and isn't Stryfe like God-like Cable? If so or not, he is still very very powerful and he didn't even budge fully powered Apocalypse... and then you have Apocalypse having the power and physical strenght to kill Thor with a headbutt.

Originally posted by Xplosive
Well he did face and was untouched by destructive power of X-Factor+Inhumans. He had the upper hand against High Evolutionary. He easily chocked Hulk. PE Ikaris was an easy match up for him.

Stryfe is an Omega Level Mutant and isn't Stryfe like God-like Cable? If so or not, he is still very very powerful and he didn't even budge fully powered Apocalypse... and then you have Apocalypse having the power and physical strenght to kill Thor with a headbutt. high E showings are all over the place he got owned by some Phalanx drones and PE Ikaris is nowhere near Surfer lvl at all.

Naming stats and power set means nothing as combat wise he hasn't really done squat

Originally posted by Xplosive


Stryfe is an Omega Level Mutant and isn't Stryfe like God-like Cable? If so or not, he is still very very powerful and he didn't even budge fully powered Apocalypse...

Was that even 616 apoc? Because X-force was close to a millennium into the future.

Originally posted by Insane Titan
high E showings are all over the place he got owned by some Phalanx drones and PE Ikaris is nowhere near Surfer lvl at all.

Naming stats and power set means nothing as combat wise he hasn't really done squat

Important is that Apocalypse has.
And yes what Apocalypse did to Stryfe is actually impressive because of Stryfe similarity to God-like Cable.
Apocalypse crushed very powerful Stryfe to crushing Thor. Actually for a fully powered Apocalypse there was no difference between Thor or Stryfe and probably would be no difference against Silver Surfer... as it was aready mentioned... Silver Surfer has no tools to even harm Apocalypse.

Apocalypse is a real deal.

Originally posted by Insane Titan
PE Ikaris is nowhere near Surfer lvl at all.

Doubt that.

After reading that Surfer can't Apparntley even harm Apoc I'd rather not was my time *shakes head*

Originally posted by Insane Titan
After reading that Surfer can't Apparntley even harm Apoc I'd rather not was my time *shakes head*

Yes, he probably wouldn't even be able to hurt or do some damage to Apocalypse that fought Thor, except if Galactus would empower him more or to get that enchated axe.

Ok h1 because the version of Apoc that has always been seen right

Originally posted by Insane Titan
Silver Surfer , one showing from Apoc doesn't change his entire history

This.

Originally posted by Insane Titan
Ok h1 because the version of Apoc that has always been seen right

It doesn't matter, because the last four years Apocalypse is real deal, so lately he is seen that way.

Are we really discussing Apocalypse can't be harmed by Silver ****ing Surfer? My god.

facepalm

Originally posted by Xplosive
It doesn't matter, because the last four years Apocalypse is real deal, so lately he is seen that way. real deal lol because he beat Stryfe who hasn't beaten anyone worthy of note.

Originally posted by Insane Titan
real deal lol because he beat Stryfe who hasn't beaten anyone worthy of note.

Thor... and he would do the same to Silver Surfer.

Originally posted by Xplosive
Thor... and he would do the same to Silver Surfer. that's it lmao.

Beating young thor doesn't mean somebody can beat Surfer.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Beating young thor doesn't mean somebody can beat Surfer.

Apocalypse can.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Beating young thor doesn't mean somebody can beat Surfer. Apparntley using a past version of a character that's never been shown since is poof now

Originally posted by Xplosive
Apocalypse can.
No, he can't. He is a joke who could get some feats once per five years.

Originally posted by abhilegend
No, he can't. He is a joke who could get some feats once per five years.
Not for anything Abhi, but this isn't true.

Apocalypse is pretty impressive for what he is, but he's not beating Surfer for the majority.

Off the top of my head, I can only think of one embarrassing showing for Apoc and that's the infamous "table incident". You got to keep in mind that there's been more than a few times when he was either weakened or depowered when he was beaten.

A full power he's taken on Loki (causing him to retreat), stalemated the High Evolutionary, sonned Exodus (who was giving Sersi a run for her money), etc...

Its difficult to rank Apocalypse in his prime.

He walks down Stryfe
Does the same to Exodus
And gives young Thor a beating
Had the upper hand agianst Loki
He fought the Higher Evolutionary to a standstill

Originally posted by zopzop
Not for anything Abhi, but this isn't true.

Apocalypse is pretty impressive for what he is, but he's not beating Surfer for the majority.

Off the top of my head, I can only think of one embarrassing showing for Apoc and that's the infamous "table incident". You got to keep in mind that there's been more than a few times when he was either weakened or depowered when he was beaten.

A full power he's taken on Loki (causing him to retreat), stalemated the High Evolutionary, sonned Exodus (who was giving Sersi a run for her money), etc...
Of course its true. He doesn't have a single win against a true herald since forever. Cable has gone toe to toe with him in h2h more times than I care to remember.

Loki retreated because he didn't want to fight any more, High Evolutionary was a jobber in his own crossover. He didn't fight Bloodties Exodus which was a very high showing for him and not his average.

Basically he has very few showings which could make him a herald in his 25 year history, a lot of very meh showings and what not. If we go cherry picking like that, Surfer/Superman/Thor would be skyfathers.

Surfer wins, basically anything Apocalypse can do, and at any scale Apocalypse can do it, Surfer can trump.

Surfer is beyond Apocalypse, in every which way.

Originally posted by abhilegend
No, he can't.

He can and he can do it easily if neccessary.

Originally posted by Xplosive
He can and he can do it easily if neccessary.
Keep dreaming. How is he going to win anyway?

Originally posted by abhilegend
Keep dreaming. How is he going to win anyway?

Two headbutts should do it.

King size one

Lol Thor tried it, didn't stick

Originally posted by Kazenji
The Apoc twins?

unless you know something i don't know, Last i know he was dead and all thats left is the Clone named Genesis.

He's thinking of the flashback Thor/Apoc scene as "current".

Originally posted by janus77
Surfer wins, basically anything Apocalypse can do, and at any scale Apocalypse can do it, Surfer can trump.

Surfer is beyond Apocalypse, in every which way. Recent showings have Apoc much stronger and more durable than Surfer.

Originally posted by h1a8
Recent showings have Apoc much stronger and more durable than Surfer.

Even if we accept that for the sake of argument, Surfer's body of work is much larger and more impressive than Apoc....

Originally posted by brownqk
Even if we accept that for the sake of argument, Surfer's body of work is much larger and more impressive than Apoc.... Physical strength is no question based off what we seen. Durability is probably debatable. It seems as if many here value current showings astronomically more than the history of showings (Thanos for example). If that is the case then Apoc is above Surfer in physicality.

Originally posted by Xplosive
Two headbutts should do it.
Nope. Surfer has taken much more punishment and kept coming. Why is it so hard for you to understand that Young Thor was much less strong and durable than current Thor. It has no bearing on Surfer, at all.

Originally posted by h1a8
Recent showings have Apoc much stronger and more durable than Surfer.

Really? I mean, Apoc has been getting some love from Xforce and Uncanny Avengers over the past few years, but I'm pretty sure there hasn't been anything showing him more durable than SS.

I mean, he's done well against Viking Thor and Stryfe, but those are his only actual showings in the past 8 years (one of which is a potential future Apoc). Everything else is just implied feats around people related to him (Archangel, Genesis, the twins etc). I mean sure he has had impressive feats in the past (Ikaris, Loki, HE) but I doubt anyone would have claimed he would beat Surfer based off those alone, and yet since then it's only been Thor and Stryfe who he's fought.

Considering Surfer's ridiculous backlog of feats, I very much don't see anything Apoc has done to make him = Surfer in those regards.

Sure he fought Young Thor well, but back then Thor is a) an axe crazy bruiser with no subtlety or tactics and b) doesn't have Mjolnir. The lack of Mjolnir in particular is a huge difference, as we saw current Thor pretty much stomp Uriel into the ground (well, Sun at least). Sure Uriel isn't exactly Apocalypse, but based on the X-force arc we see that the heirs are at least comparable to Apoc (Archangel became massively amped compared to what he was previously once he became the next Apoc).

Also on the note of his armour, I swear for a long time it's been said to be celestial tech but adapted to his shape shifting and then later the TO virus that Cable brought back in time with him. It's just the fact that it's been focused on a bit more than usual during XF/UA.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Nope. Surfer has taken much more punishment and kept coming. Why is it so hard for you to understand that Young Thor was much less strong and durable than current Thor. It has no bearing on Surfer, at all.

How is so hard for you to understand that now Apocalypse could do it with two headbutts against Norrin to win the fight.

Originally posted by Xplosive
How is so hard for you to understand that now Apocalypse could do it with two headbutts against Norrin to win the fight.
Why? What has he done in two headbutts that he could KO someone as durable as Surfer? You are just repeating the same thing over and over without any kind of feats.

Apoc fans are reminiscent of the galactic-winds Storm fans, 'cept slightly less loopy.


There's absolutely nothing Apocalypse can do to harm Surfer. Nothing.

Surfer trumps Apoc in every respect and on-top of having just far far far greater raw power too, he has on-panel reaction times and soul manipulation powers that make Apocalypse utterly pointless in this fight.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Why? What has he done in two headbutts that he could KO someone as durable as Surfer? You are just repeating the same thing over and over without any kind of feats.

One headbutt almost killing Thor without Apocalypse even trying hardest.
Two headbutts against Radd should be enough.

^Young Thor is nowhere near Surfer's level of strength and durability.

Originally posted by Xplosive
One headbutt almost killing Thor without Apocalypse even trying hardest.
Two headbutts against Radd should be enough.
Except young thor is nowhere near Surfer level in durability? Heck, against purely physical assaults Surfer IS more durable than current adult Thor.