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An ancient menace seeks to destroy Luke's prize student.

Sion. Regeneration is simply too OP.

I don't know about that. Like Hidan from Naruto, he's so convinced of it's superiority that he hasn't bothered to learn much else.

I'm not voting yet, but Kyp has battle pre-cog which would serve him well in dodging strikes, but moreover, his TK is strong enough to throw a ship the size of the Falcon, which might be able to render Sion immobile.

Kyp's definitely way stronger, the real question is finding a way to finish the job.

Kyp Durron takes him to the curb.

It's pretty heavily implied that Sion's regenerative abilities are not as untouchable as many believe unless on a potent Nexus such as Malachor V or Korriban.

Even then, Meetra Surik--A Jedi Knight that was quite easily overpowered by a SWTOR Dark Councillor--Still pushed him to the breaking point in combat before he resigned himself to death.

Kyp is more than qualified to obliterate Sion on neutral ground.

Originally posted by NewGuy01

It's pretty heavily implied that Sion's regenerative abilities are not as untouchable as many believe unless on a potent Nexus such as Malachor V or Korriban.


This is explicitly not the case.

Do your research.

I'm of the belief that his regen is everything it's supposed to be, however, if he gets literally disarmed, and then wrapped in steel telekinetically, I think he's down for the count.

I'll say Durron.

Yeah but I think it's stupid to assume anything other than that Sion is a very powerful Sith Lord in general. He should be competitive enough that his OP regeneration tips the scales in his favor.

Kyp tears apart his rotten corpse and then TKs it out the window.

Originally posted by Astor Ebligis
Yeah but I think it's stupid to assume anything other than that Sion is a very powerful Sith Lord in general. He should be competitive enough that his OP regeneration tips the scales in his favor.

But he got stomped by the Exile.

Ignoring that he canonically had feelings for her and allowed himself to die.

K.

Except he says that because he has feelings for her he wont hold back, since he thinks killing her would be better than what Kreia would do to her.

But it also allows her words to reach him. He willingly dies. I can't stress this enough, so using the plot dependent victory of the Exile valid requires context.

Why do you hate context?

Yeah, after she kicks his ass 3 or 4 times in a row. What, do you think he's holding back or some shit? He isn't. That she ultimately talks him to death doesn't change the fact that she whoops him multiple times. Those aren't plot dependant victories.

Which is why I said she stomped him, because if you can beat someone 4 times in a row you're obviously on another level to them.

The fact that she couldn't kill him until he willingly gave up is lind of key here.

Is Kyp going to fight Sion for an undetermined amount of respawns before Sion gives up out of frustration?

I wasn't responding to his regeneration, I was responding to Astors claim that Sion is a really powerful Sith Lord who can be competitive with Durron. He isn't (really) and he can't.

Fair enough.

I wouldn't say that's proof that the exile was drastically superior to him or superior to him at all. When two combatants have equivalent priorities in defending themselves and inflicting harm on the other, then maybe the manner in which one is able to inflict greater harm upon the other can be considered a good indication that they're superior. But as Sion isn't as vulnerable as the exile (or virtually anybody) he doesn't have the same priorities in defending himself that the exile or a regular combatant would have, hence her repeatedly inflicting harm on him not being a good indication that she was superior to him in this case.

All that matters is that he willingly chose to die. And he was in love with her, and it's hard to say that he was defintiely being sincere when he said he wouldn't hold back.

Plus the exile was made out to be pretty powerful in the game. She goes on to defeat Traya as well after all, and Traya makes the same declarations that Sion does (of love, and not holding back).

Lawl. Yeah, Sion just lets her beat him. I'm sure he loves just getting smacked by a lightsaber. http://i.somethingawful.com/forumsystem/emoticons/emot-jerkbag.gif

There are plenty of reasons he would willingly eat shots. By foregoing defence he is free to focus more on offence, making him more dangerous. Pain is not an issue as all he ever feels is pain, constantly.

I believe the best tactic would be, step one, destroy his light saber.

Easier said than done.

I'm not sure why people always try to come up with ways Sion's opponent can defeat him and then argue that it's a likely hypothetical.

Why not just acknowledge his very effective attribute for what it is?

Sion didn't hold back against the Exile, or he wouldn't have been defeated like four times in a row... Each time saying she stood no chance against him. Seriously, Sion is shit. Kyp can kill him as many times as it takes for him to finally surrender and die. At least compared with the top dogs of the mythos, Sion is a joke. And Kyp is top fifteen.

Originally posted by Petrus
Sion didn't hold back against the Exile, or he wouldn't have been defeated like four times in a row... Each time saying she stood no chance against him. Seriously, Sion is shit. Kyp can kill him as many times as it takes for him to finally surrender and die. At least compared with the top dogs of the mythos, Sion is a joke. And Kyp is top fifteen.

Kyp top fifteen? Wut.

Yeah. Maybe top twenty.

Could you list the rest? This just seems hard to believe.

Kyp is supposedly very powerful. He's thrown capital ships around and rivals Luke iirc.

I heard freighters, like the Falcon, not capital ships, but I could be mistaken.

Yeah, probably. Still pretty big though.

I'll post my list later today. And also reasons why I think Kyp is top 20/15.

Do so, or risk my wrath.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
This is explicitly not the case.

Do your research.

Or maybe you should be doing yours?


"As long as the dark places of this world run through the cracks in my flesh, I cannot be killed."

-Darth Sion on Malachor V

"There will be another time , but not now, not here, while Korriban runs through him."

-Darth Traya on Korriban

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Or maybe you should be doing yours?


"As long as the dark places of this world run through the cracks in my flesh, I cannot be killed."

-Darth Sion on Malachor V

"There will be another time , but not now, not here, while Korriban runs through him."

-Darth Traya on Korriban

Did you miss on the Republic ship where it said his body had thousands of wounds, including fractured bones and tears which he kept together through sheer force of will? Or that he has revived himself from death before when not on a Force nexus? His rage is aided by these places, but it is not the sole catalyst of his power.

NewGuy01 didn't say it was, he simply pointed out that Sion's ability when not on a nexus is not as infallible as people think.

His first post implies that Sion's regen is made absolute by nexi and that on neutral ground he could be slain.

So why then does Sion cheat death for the first time while not on a nexus? Why does he hold his body together together through sheer force of will on a Republic starship docked at some mining asteroid?

Is it a really dark side infused asteroid?

I could buy this if the narrative suggested he could only die off of a dark side nexus. It simply suggests the nexus makes him even more unstoppable. After all, its buff seems to make all of the powers of a dark side user improved, not just one.

For argument's sake, I'll throw Sion a bone and say they're in a ship on Dromund Kaas, giving him the full benefit of his powers.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
His first post implies that Sion's regen is made absolute by nexi and that on neutral ground he could be slain.

So why then does Sion cheat death for the first time while not on a nexus? Why does he hold his body together together through sheer force of will on a Republic starship docked at some mining asteroid?

Is it a really dark side infused asteroid?

I could buy this if the narrative suggested he could only die off of a dark side nexus. It simply suggests the nexus makes him even more unstoppable. After all, its buff seems to make all of the powers of a dark side user improved, not just one.

His power isn't absolute. Sion says that he can revive himself a hundred times when on a nexus, but it would be stupid to think he could do the same off of one.

I though he revived himself for the first time on Malachor? Wasn't it the MSG that fvcked him up so bad?

I've never denied Sion could regenerate fatal wounds without the aid of a Dark Nexus. I am saying that he cannot do this indefinitely without a Nexus fueling his power.

Regardless, Kyp has worlds more to his name in terms of combat ability, and Sion can be killed, albeit not easily.

Originally posted by Astor Ebligis
Easier said than done.

I'm not sure why people always try to come up with ways Sion's opponent can defeat him and then argue that it's a likely hypothetical.

Why not just acknowledge his very effective attribute for what it is?

People generally think a Vs. match-up is kind of boring when one fighter only wins because he can't be killed. It just doesn't make for a particularly imaginative scenario. If one guy is smarter, stronger etc, that's okay because those advantages can be countered or overcome, but if it's just "he wins because he can't be killed" then that's viewed as kind of a cheap way to win. Consequently they try and think of alternative ways the other guy could win to make it more interesting.

Put simply they don't "just acknowledge his very effective attribute for what it is" because that would be incredibly boring.

So who wins, Superman who can't hit back, or Batman with a golf club?

Batman would probably break his freaking hands if he tried swinging at Supes, lol.

It would be pretty hilarious.

Okay, give Batman a kryptonite pool noodle.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Batman would probably break his freaking hands if he tried swinging at Supes, lol.

There was one comic where Batman lost it and punched Superman. Next page:

Superman: Feeling better?

Batman: (Holding hand in agony) I think I broke my knuckles.

Superman: (uses X-ray vision) No but they're badly bruised. You're lucky I rolled with that punch or you'd have crippled yourself.

Yes, it was hilarious.

Lol. Please get me a scan.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Could you list the rest? This just seems hard to believe.

Seems plausible to me, Kyp's the strongest non-skywalker of the NJO, and early during the Vong war when Luke was out of practice, might've actually been in the top spot.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Could you list the rest? This just seems hard to believe.

Kyp has really done numerous things, I'm not aware of all of his feats. Within his first week of training in the NJO he had become the most talented of all of the trainees.

When he was contracted by the spirit of Exar Kun, only a couple months into his training IIRC, he was capable of unleashing a barrage of black force lightning that rendered Luke unconscious.

Also early in his training, he was able to use Force Sense to scope out the entire moon of Yavin 4 and locate the exact location of the Sun Crusher, which is insane.

Another time during his earlier years, he was able to use the Force to alter the environment in the atmosphere to create a storm, and directed it's electric energies at a Leviathan Wyyrm, killing it instantly.

He also was able to manipulate Dorvin Basals with greater ease and efficiency than Luke was capable of, and he developed the idea of Shadow Bombs, Torpedoes thrown telekinetically at Yuuzahn Vong ships.

He was able to telekinetically ragdoll Corran Horn rather casually, smacking him back and forth across a room with apparent ease. He was also shown throwing a damaged freighter ship at missile-like velocity.

Kyp has shown the ability to "mind rub" other Force Users, completely wiping select memories from the minds of the target. Kyp was also shown with high level of capability cloaking and masking himself in the Force.

Lumiya considered Kyp Durron to be the prime candidate along with Jacen to be her Sith apprentice, but chose the Skywalker due to Kyp's dangerously rebellious nature. Luke also noted that Kyp was the most powerful of all of his students in the Jedi Praxeum.

Now, admittedly, Kyp Durron for all of his power had not been in many lightsaber confrontations, however, Luke considered him one of the NJO's most masterful swordsmen--Considering him and Kyle Katarn to be better duelists than Gaalan--A Sith Bladesmaster that was able to go toe to toe with Luke in a duel for a short period. Note that Kyle Katarn was amongst the few in the Order who could hold his ground against Luke in a duel, and Kyp was measured as his equal or superior in terms of bladework.

He was also the Jedi Master of Jaina Solo, who would become the Sword of the Jedi and the combat equal of anyone in the Order, as well as the slayer of Caedus.

IIRC Kyp also has some pretty damn impressive feats with tutaminis.


Kyp, in my opinion, is more than prominent enough to make a top 15 Jedi list, if that was what you were questioning.

I meant more like top 15-20 overall. Among chiefly Jedi, he could easily make the list.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Lol. Please get me a scan. http://s5d2.turboimagehost.com/t1/18191623_428-1.png http://s5d2.turboimagehost.com/t1/18191624_428-2.png

See? I'm not just saying things.

Also, Luke acknowledged Kyp having "frightening potential", and when they were training for the first time he was extremely impressed with Kyp's "natural affinity to the Force", claiming it was unlike anything he'd seen before.

Untrained, his precognition abilities were high-calibre, which imo means he was at the very least a decent swordsman once he became a full-fledged Jedi.

He was skilled enough with TK to slow down the Sun Crusher as it came crashing down Yavin IV. Which is pretty great, considering the Sun Crusher's massive.


Here's my list :

Luke Skywalker
Jacen Solo
Mace Windu
Yoda
Revan
Hero of Tython
Barsen'thor
Meetra Surik*
Satele Shan
Anakin Skywalker
Galen Marek
Obi-Wan Kenobi*
Kyp Durron
Kyle Katarn*
Cade Skywalker*



* I have yet to make my mind on them, but they're temporarily on my list until I think of better ones.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
I meant more like top 15-20 overall. Among chiefly Jedi, he could easily make the list.

Just saw this. I meant top 15 Jedi, not overall.

Also, Superman sucks. So generic. Also, Goku > Superman.

Originally posted by Petrus
Just saw this. I meant top 15 Jedi, not overall.

Also, Superman sucks. So generic. Also, Goku > Superman.



Originally posted by Galan007
http://s5d2.turboimagehost.com/t1/18191623_428-1.png http://s5d2.turboimagehost.com/t1/18191624_428-2.png



Lol. Supes is like "WTF Y U SO STUPID?"

Superman, generic? That's like saying Lord of the Rings ripped off Harry Potter. They're called "SUPER"heroes for a reason...

Anyway, I totally recognize Sion's attribute for what it is, that's why I thought this would be a decent fight. The most surefire way to take someone out is to kill them. There are other ways to neutralize an opponent, but not being able to die is an excellent attribute, and if your opponent can't do anything other than kill, it's a legitimate victory. That being said it seems pretty agreed upon that Kyp's arsenal is up tot he task. I'll probably put him in another match up soon.

Supes is what everybody would love to be, or at least what kids would. Maybe the correct word is not generic, more like unoriginal. Like, if you asked a kid "if you were a superhero, what powers would you like to have?", he'd almost certainly reply: "I'd love to fly, to have laser vision, to have super-strength, to be invincible, etc". Virtually everything Superman is. It's almost unfair. He's got everything, which imo, makes him suck.

Superheroes like Batman or Spiderman or Aquaman or Flash are much better for me. And Goku is just the shitz.

Originally posted by Fire Ant
Superman, generic? That's like saying Lord of the Rings ripped off Harry Potter. They're called "SUPER"heroes for a reason...