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Rank them in order of most feared to least feared.

Voldermort's last. IRRC, the other didn't have people working against them in their ranks.

Bavmorda is probably second to last, as her daughter turned against her in the end.

I've only seen SWatH once and it's a blur.

Sauron is easily at the top, largest army at his command; they all feared him, even without a body.

So:

Sauron
Ravenna(could change)
Bravmorda
Voldermort

Originally posted by Robtard
Voldermort's last. IRRC, the other didn't have people working against them in their ranks.

Bavmorda is probably second to last, as her daughter turned against her in the end.

I've only seen SWatH once and it's a blur.

Sauron is easily at the top, largest army at his command; they all feared him, even without a body.

So:

Sauron
Ravenna(could change)
Bravmorda
Voldermort We see here someone openly make demands of Sauron right to his face. That's disrespectful right to his face.


57 seconds in.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TWRO0uP6aAs


We see Snape look quite frightened and just let Voldemort kill him. That's true fear. He wouldn't even openly defy him and did so in secrecy after he killed the love of his life, Harry's mother.


http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8cL527bg0II

Originally posted by quanchi112
We see here someone openly make demands of Sauron right to his face. That's disrespectful right to his face.


57 seconds in.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TWRO0uP6aAs


We see Snape look quite frightened and just let Voldemort kill him. That's true fear. He wouldn't even openly defy him and did so in secrecy after he killed the love of his life, Harry's mother.


http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8cL527bg0II

'Openly make demands' != 'Reaffirming the promise that Sauron renegged'. In any case, Sauron's command over the orc armies (which are explicitly driven by his will) and his absolute dominance over the Nine > Voldemort by miles.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
'Openly make demands' != 'Reaffirming the promise that Sauron renegged'. In any case, Sauron's command over the orc armies (which are explicitly driven by his will) and his absolute dominance over the Nine > Voldemort by miles. He has power over the nine due to the rings dominion over the other rings and mans lust for power. The orcs are simple minded barbarians. Acting as if thinking or intelligence is their strength is just being a tad silly.

Demanding to know about Oakenshield isn't something you do when you're scared shitless. Here I will show you what it looks like to be scared shitless of Voldemort.

No one questions him or makes demands of him.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yj2aSy1Zen4

Originally posted by quanchi112
He has power over the nine due to the rings dominion over the other rings and mans lust for power. The orcs are simple minded barbarians. Acting as if thinking or intelligence is their strength is just being a tad silly.

Demanding to know about Oakenshield isn't something you do when you're scared shitless. Here I will show you what it looks like to be scared shitless of Voldemort.

No one questions him or makes demands of him.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yj2aSy1Zen4

And people in Middle-earth are generally afraid to utter Sauron's name unless they are wizards or elflords. When he appeared at the Siege of Barad-Dur, entire armies shit their pants. And that was before he started smacking them around like flies.

Saruman, the most powerful Ishtari in Middle-earth at the time, was balls-out afraid of Sauron and knew without the Ring he couldn't stand a chance. Sauron was able to put mortal fear into Pippin in a few seconds' time using a palantir.

Really, the list goes on and on. Just saying some wizards feared Voldemort doesn't impress anyone, when Voldemort didn't field elite mooks in the thousands.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
And people in Middle-earth are generally afraid to utter Sauron's name unless they are wizards or elflords. When he appeared at the Siege of Barad-Dur, entire armies shit their pants. And that was before he started smacking them around like flies.

Saruman, the most powerful Ishtari in Middle-earth at the time, was balls-out afraid of Sauron and knew without the Ring he couldn't stand a chance. Sauron was able to put mortal fear into Pippin in a few seconds' time using a palantir.

Really, the list goes on and on. Just saying some wizards feared Voldemort doesn't impress anyone, when Voldemort didn't field elite mooks in the thousands. People say his name all the time. People were scared shitless to speak Voldemort's name by the way.

Yes, people were scared but he was defeated in less than a minute so the fear didn't last that long.

Saruman was absolutely destroyed by Gandalf the White in embarrassing fashion. Saruman was not impressive in the least. Tk pushes, a possession, and a fireball. He's a peasant in the VoldeVerse.

Voldemort's troops were scared shitless whereas Sauron's general made open demands without batting an eyelash. The same guy who was destroyed by a dwarf in battle and was carted off to safety while screaming like a woman.

Thats Sauron's general who openly demanded the dwarf right to him. Voldemort elicits far more fear from his troops.

So it' settled, Sauron with his dominion over hundreds of thousands is #1 and Voldermort who had a handful by comparison of minions and even double-agents in his ranks is at the bottom.

Revenna is still likely in 2nd place; with Bravmorda in 3rd, since her daughter turned against her in the end.

Originally posted by Robtard
So it' settle, Sauron with his dominion over hundreds of thousands is #1 and Voldermort who had a handful by comparison of minions and even double-agents in his ranks is at the bottom.

Revenna is still likely in 2nd place; with Bravmorda in 3rd, since her daughter turned against her in the end. Scope doesn't prove anything. Sauron had more troops and still lost. Sauron's dwarf beaten general demanded Oakenshield from him.

People were openly quivering in Voldemort's presence. You didn't even respond to my evidence no doubt due to your lack of debating skill.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Scope doesn't prove anything. Sauron had more troops and still lost. Sauron's dwarf beaten general demanded Oakenshield from him.

People were openly quivering in Voldemort's presence. You didn't even respond to my evidence no doubt due to your lack of debating skill.


Wrong. Just deal that Sauron had vast armies of beings who feared him and an entire world that feared him.

Voldermort had a handful of underlings by comparison and dissention in his own ranks. Your "evidence" wasn't evidence, you didn't understand that Sauron plays people; not my fault you didn't get it.

You won't deal with it, so do more flips. Threads over though.

Originally posted by Robtard
Wrong. Just deal that Sauron had vast armies of beings who feared him and an entire world that feared him.

Voldermort had a handful of underlings by comparison and dissention in his own ranks. Your "evidence" wasn't evidence, you didn't understand that Sauron plays people; not my fault you didn't get it. His general didn't fear him. This isn't about who was numerically more feared it has to do with their own troops. If the general doesn't fear you that is pretty bad.

Snape let himself die to the guy who killed his lifelong love. That's fear. Look at his face when he is talking to Voldemort. He also allowed his friend at Hogwarts to be butchered by Voldemort right in front of him.

His troops were scared shitless unlike where is Oakenshield type stuff from his general.

Sauron. No question.

Originally posted by quanchi112
His general didn't fear him. This isn't about who was numerically more feared it has to do with their own troops. If the general doesn't fear you that is pretty bad.

Snape let himself die to the guy who killed his lifelong love. That's fear. Look at his face when he is talking to Voldemort. He also allowed his friend at Hogwarts to be butchered by Voldemort right in front of him.

His troops were scared shitless unlike where is Oakenshield type stuff from his general.



You not understanding the film and the conversation between Azog and Sauron isn't my problem.

Dissention in your troops is just that; which Voldermort had. Add to the fact that Voldermort had a much smaller army than Sauron, it's evident who has more fear/dominance over their troops.

eg Having an army of 10 guys and having 1 not fear you is much worse than having an army of 10,000 and having 3 not fear you in terms of "who is more feared". You can't deal with these facts, so you'll do more flips

Originally posted by ares834
Sauron. No question.


http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TWRO0uP6aAs

^^^57 seconds in.

41-43 seconds in here. Just a glance has him shitting his pants and looking away.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=X34HPAxlyd8


Look at the difference here.

Originally posted by Robtard
You can't deal with these facts, so you'll do more flips

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ljd4ufMzqN1qixleeo1_400.gif

Originally posted by Robtard
You not understanding the film and the conversation between Azog and Sauron isn't my problem.

Dissention in your troops is just that; which Voldermort had. Add to the fact that Voldermort had a much smaller army than Sauron, it's evident who has more fear/dominance over their troops.

eg Having an army of 10 guys and having 1 not fear you is much worse than having an army of 10,000 and having 3 not fear you in terms of "who is more feared". You can't deal with these facts, so you'll do more flips I understand the lack of fear. It is more of those lets work together to achieve our goals type relationship. In the Voldemort scenes people look away just by the manner in which he looks at them.


There were less wizards than orcs. Orcs were stupid, simple minded barabarians.

This isn't about a numerical advantage it is about the general level of fear induced into your own men. Sauron's general made demands of him whereas people wouldn't even look Voldemort in the eyes if he was slightly annoyed.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ljd4ufMzqN1qixleeo1_400.gif Originally posted by quanchi112
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TWRO0uP6aAs

^^^57 seconds in.

41-43 seconds in here. Just a glance has him shitting his pants and looking away.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=X34HPAxlyd8


Look at the difference here. Two videos posted.

Who looks more scared ?

I love it when you avoid evidence or debating in general.

Pale Orc to Sauron, "You promised me his head."

/debate.

Voldemort wins.

Among their own troops then its:

Sauron
Ravenna
Bavmorda
Voldemort

Not really fair though. Sauron had dumb orcs for troops and enchanted witch kings. Obviously would have the most control over his troops.

Ravenna had no opposition among her troops. Barvmorda had her daughter. And Voldemort had numberous squabbling among his underdogs. A traitor was even able to manipulate him.

Now if the question was who was more feared by their enemies, then the ranking would be:

Sauron
Voldemort
Bavmorda
Ravenna

Voldemort's followers were so afraid of him that when Harry came "back to life" they began deserting right in Voldy's face....

Originally posted by ares834
Voldemort's followers were so afraid of him that when Harry came "back to life" they began deserting right in Voldy's face....

Due to the upheaval caused by Harry still being alive. A few dissenters who we see leave were scared shitless of Voldemort. That doesn't mean they didn't fear him.


We know the pale Orc not only didn't fear Sauron he demanded a dwarfs head.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Among their own troops then its:

Sauron
Ravenna
Bavmorda
Voldemort

Not really fair though. Sauron had dumb orcs for troops and enchanted witch kings. Obviously would have the most control over his troops.

Ravenna had no opposition among her troops. Barvmorda had her daughter. And Voldemort had numberous squabbling among his underdogs. A traitor was even able to manipulate him.

Now if the question was who was more feared by their enemies, then the ranking would be:

Sauron
Voldemort
Bavmorda
Ravenna Who manipulated him ?

Most of you are confusing the words fear and control. It isn't the same thing at all. This is rather embarrassing. Whose troops fears them more not whose troops were more under control or subservient. If you don't understand simple words or definitions it makes getting my point across impossible.

I'm pretty sure if someone can control you utterly, you fear them.

Or are you that dense?

Did they have the scene with Mama Malfoy flat out lying to Voldemorts face in the movies?

Yes.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
I'm pretty sure if someone can control you utterly, you fear them.

Or are you that dense? The two don't mean the same thing. People were scared to death of Voldemort. Fear doesn't mean you won't betray them. Control and fear don't mean the same thing no matter how badly you want to paint that picture.

Sauron let his general make demands of him. Voldemort killed his own troops for less hence why they feared him more. It was entirely justifiable.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Did they have the scene with Mama Malfoy flat out lying to Voldemorts face in the movies? Does that mean she doesn't fear him ?


Do you know what fear means ?


Allow me to illustrate my point further. Take Sleeping with the Enemy with Julia Roberts. She clearly feared her husband to the point of faking her own death and betraying him. Does that mean she didn't fear him ? How can you people be so naive and unable to understand what fear is.


I guess people attacking mutants or hating mutants in the comics doesn't mean they fear them because they attack them, right ? Screw that line people fear what they don't understand. If you don't blindly obey you have no fear at all.

There is no question that Sauron is more powerful than Voldemort, but I think Quan's right in this instance.

People in the Harry Potter universe were visibly much more afraid of voldy than the warriors were of Sauron in LotR.

Also, Sauron didn't control the orc army through fear.

No, he's wrong and it's been shown. Voldermort had dissention in his ranks, his own people deserting him cos a boy-wizard shows up and a kid flat out disrespecting him to his face.

While all of Middle Earth feared the power of Sauron.

Originally posted by quanchi112
The two don't mean the same thing. People were scared to death of Voldemort. Fear doesn't mean you won't betray them. Control and fear don't mean the same thing no matter how badly you want to paint that picture.

Sauron let his general make demands of him. Voldemort killed his own troops for less hence why they feared him more. It was entirely justifiable. Originally posted by quanchi112
Does that mean she doesn't fear him ?


Do you know what fear means ?


Allow me to illustrate my point further. Take Sleeping with the Enemy with Julia Roberts. She clearly feared her husband to the point of faking her own death and betraying him. Does that mean she didn't fear him ? How can you people be so naive and unable to understand what fear is.


I guess people attacking mutants or hating mutants in the comics doesn't mean they fear them because they attack them, right ? Screw that line people fear what they don't understand. If you don't blindly obey you have no fear at all.

Originally posted by Robtard
No, he's wrong and it's been shown. Voldermort had dissention in his ranks, his own people deserting him cos a boy-wizard shows up and a kid flat out disrespecting him to his face.

While all of Middle Earth feared the power of Sauron. I guess betraying someone means you have absolutely no fear of them.

I posted the clips. His troops were afraid to even look at him whereas the pale Orc made demands right to Sauron.

Originally posted by Robtard
No, he's wrong and it's been shown. Voldermort had dissention in his ranks, his own people deserting him cos a boy-wizard shows up and a kid flat out disrespecting him to his face.

While all of Middle Earth feared the power of Sauron.

I just realized, this thread is about the troops.

I seriously doubt the orcs were more afraid of sauron than the wizards were of voldy. The rest of middle earth and Harry Potter universe are irrelevant.

Originally posted by Firefly218
I just realized, this thread is about the troops.

I seriously doubt the orcs were more afraid of sauron than the wizards were of voldy. The rest of middle earth and Harry Potter universe are irrelevant.

Nah. In the final battle Sauron's soldiers didn't flee until Sauron was destroyed. Voldermort's troops started to break cos a boy-wizard shows up, even though they were winning the battle; that shows a lack of control and fear is how Voldermort controlled his people.

Sauron is still at the top. At least he had all of his troops under complete submission and almost none of them dared to even mention his name.

Voldemort had peole deserting him left and right, a double agent who betrayed him, and Mommy Malfoy who straight up lied to him.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I guess betraying someone means you have absolutely no fear of them.

I posted the clips. His troops were afraid to even look at him whereas the pale Orc made demands right to Sauron.

It's clear you're still so butthurt over everyone handing you your own ass in the Sauron Vs Voldermort threads that you're making thread after thread desperately trying to find something Voldermort is better at than Sauron; this one isn't it.

May I suggest you make these threads:

Who is the bigger coward, Sauron or Voldermort?

Who is better at failing to kill an infant, Sauron or Voldermort?

Who got outplayed more by a child throughout the child's life, Sauron or Voldermort?

Who looks more fabulous waving around a baton-like object, Sauron or Voldermort?

I guarantee many wins for Voldermort there

When Azog made that demand of Sauron, wasn't he under the impression he was simply a powerful Necromancer?

You have that Voldermort initially got people to his side through charm and appealing to the PURE BLOOD prejudice. He is described as a very charming and handsome person before his horcrux resurrection. And if you remember most of his death eaters seemed like his good friends rather then servants. Lucius being an exception, he was a coward, had a family to protect and was being excluded.

Sauron oozes fear. He was feared by the most powerful Wizard in the land who eventually went CRAZY. There's the difference: VOldermort has small people fearing him, SAuron has the most powerful people fearing him.

Bavmorda was scary because she was the only powerful person in that universe and turned an entire army into pigs... that's horrifying. Yet some people still betrayed.

Its been ages since I saw SWatH and I didn't even like it.

Sauron
Bavmorda
Voldermort

(No idea where to put Ravenna)

Voldemort takes last place. Even before he died, Mrs. Malfoy turns against him - Draco even shows up with the rest of them in the epilogue. Plus, the person that Voldemort was closest to ended up being the most traitorous of them all - Snape. He made Voldemort believe that he was a faithful servant, when he was really working for Dumbledore.

I think the only person who stayed with Voldy who always thought he was dominant and right was Bellatrix, who ended up being killed by a tertiary character .

Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
Sauron is still at the top. At least he had all of his troops under complete submission and almost none of them dared to even mention his name.

Voldemort had peole deserting him left and right, a double agent who betrayed him, and Mommy Malfoy who straight up lied to him.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TWRO0uP6aAs

57 seconds in. The general makes a demand of Sauron.

The Malfoys were scared shitless of Voldemort.


http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yj2aSy1Zen4


To suggest the Malfoys were not afraid of Voldemort is disingenuous. Betraying someone doesn't mean you don't fear them.

Originally posted by siriuswriter
Voldemort takes last place. Even before he died, Mrs. Malfoy turns against him - Draco even shows up with the rest of them in the epilogue. Plus, the person that Voldemort was closest to ended up being the most traitorous of them all - Snape. He made Voldemort believe that he was a faithful servant, when he was really working for Dumbledore.

I think the only person who stayed with Voldy who always thought he was dominant and right was Bellatrix, who ended up being killed by a tertiary character . Betrayal doesn't mean you don't fear someone. Control and fear are two separate words. Learn the difference. Thanks.

Originally posted by Robtard
It's clear you're still so butthurt over everyone handing you your own ass in the Sauron Vs Voldermort threads that you're making thread after thread desperately trying to find something Voldermort is better at than Sauron; this one isn't it.

May I suggest you make these threads:

Who is the bigger coward, Sauron or Voldermort?

Who is better at failing to kill an infant, Sauron or Voldermort?

Who got outplayed more by a child throughout the child's life, Sauron or Voldermort?

Who looks more fabulous waving around a baton-like object, Sauron or Voldermort?

I guarantee many wins for Voldermort there Or I just like arguing every facet of this debate as possible. I don't get emotional like you.



Voldemort inspires a lot more fear from his troops and rightfully so. He killed his own men whereas I don't recall Sauron ever doing so. Voldemort had everyone afraid of him whereas Sauron's general wouldn't care about making open demands from the guy.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I don't get emotional like you.



LOL!!!

Originally posted by Dramatic Gecko
LOL!!! ?

Originally posted by quanchi112
Or I just like arguing every facet of this debate as possible. I don't get emotional like you.



Originally posted by quanchi112
Voldemort inspires a lot more fear from his troops and rightfully so. He killed his own men whereas I don't recall Sauron ever doing so. Voldemort had everyone afraid of him whereas Sauron's general wouldn't care about making open demands from the guy.

Wrong.

Sauron can be as careless of the lives of his soldiers as he likes, for there are always more to swell the ranks, he breeds Orcs that replicate at a horrific rate all over the planes of Mordor. He has warriors from Rhun, Harad, Khand, Agmar and all over the Misty Mountains, and all these realms are submissive to him chiefly through fear, even after the loss of the Ring.

Also, what kinds of fear are we dealing with? Voldy's troops have more to fear directly to be sure, but Sauron inspires more general fear because of what he controls. His own followers fear him because of his absolute dominion over the nine, and that fear inspires loyalty. Everyone else fears him because of that loyalty and the vigor it inspires. Several of the nations I mentioned are ruled through fear by proxy. Rhun being the lone exeption, as Sauron is worshipped as a vengeful deiety there.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero




Wrong.

Sauron can be as careless of the lives of his soldiers as he likes, for there are always more to swell the ranks, he breeds Orcs that replicate at a horrific rate all over the planes of Mordor. He has warriors from Rhun, Harad, Khand, Agmar and all over the Misty Mountains, and all these realms are submissive to him chiefly through fear, even after the loss of the Ring.

Also, what kinds of fear are we dealing with? Voldy's troops have more to fear directly to be sure, but Sauron inspires more general fear because of what he controls. His own followers fear him because of his absolute dominion over the nine, and that fear inspires loyalty. Everyone else fears him because of that loyalty and the vigor it inspires. Several of the nations I mentioned are ruled through fear by proxy. Rhun being the lone exeption, as Sauron is worshipped as a vengeful deiety there. Having more troops doesn't translate into the troops under your command fearing you more. Try and understand.

57 seconds in we see the pale Orc aka his general flat out demand something from Sauron. He lets his own general disrespect him.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TWRO0uP6aAs

Quit speaking from hyperbole and cite examples from the films not the books.

Now compare that interaction with this one.

39-43 seconds in. He kind of questions attacking the shield here and all that is required of Voldemort is a stern look to see his tail go back between his legs.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=X34HPAxlyd8


This isn't close at all.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Having more troops doesn't translate into the troops under your command fearing you more. Try and understand.

57 seconds in we see the pale Orc aka his general flat out demand something from Sauron. He lets his own general disrespect him.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TWRO0uP6aAs

Quit speaking from hyperbole and cite examples from the films not the books.

Now compare that interaction with this one.

39-43 seconds in. He kind of questions attacking the shield here and all that is required of Voldemort is a stern look to see his tail go back between his legs.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=X34HPAxlyd8


This isn't close at all.

If you notice, that guy above you used actually Lord of the Rings facts. So they didn't mention it in the movie, the books are still canon to the movies. So don't get all but hurt when someone has facts proving you wrong.

Originally posted by Dramatic Gecko
If you notice, that guy above you used actually Lord of the Rings facts. So they didn't mention it in the movie, the books are still canon to the movies. So don't get all but hurt when someone has facts proving you wrong. Against the rules.


GTFO.

The MVF Golden Rule:
What is seen on screen is canon in these forums. If your character you wish to use has feats/actions/handicaps that contradict what that character did on screen (movie canon), then it is a violation and is illegal. MOVIE FEATS ONLY!


Its so fun to point this out to the biased trying to argue for book feats.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Having more troops doesn't translate into the troops under your command fearing you more. Try and understand.

57 seconds in we see the pale Orc aka his general flat out demand something from Sauron. He lets his own general disrespect him.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TWRO0uP6aAs

Quit speaking from hyperbole and cite examples from the films not the books.

Now compare that interaction with this one.

39-43 seconds in. He kind of questions attacking the shield here and all that is required of Voldemort is a stern look to see his tail go back between his legs.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=X34HPAxlyd8


This isn't close at all.

You keep bringing up the Azog thing as though it were the only thing of value.

What you don't seem to understand is that, unlike Voldemort, Sauron doesn't fly off the handle and kill his own men for very little things, he isn't a spoiled little brat with delusions due to daddy issues.

Voldemort isn't feared due to his power, or skill or influence, he is feared because he is psychotically unstable, but the thing with that kind of fear? it promotes sedition and betrayal. Sauron is more calm and calculated, and able to negotiate good deals with his troops, and is more diplomatic, thus that makes him a better leader, and rightly more feared by his enemies, and among his own troops. He does not punish and compromise his forces and deprive them of capable leaders like Azog for the sake of "Being a badass fear monger with psychotic daddy issues".

Also, please point out anything I said being Hyperbole... You have no idea what that word even means.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
You keep bringing up the Azog thing as though it were the only thing of value.

What you don't seem to understand is that, unlike Voldemort, Sauron doesn't fly off the handle and kill his own men for very little things, he isn't a spoiled little brat with delusions due to daddy issues.

Voldemort isn't feared due to his power, or skill or influence, he is feared because he is psychotically unstable, but the thing with that kind of fear? it promotes sedition and betrayal. Sauron is more calm and calculated, and able to negotiate good deals with his troops, and is more diplomatic, thus that makes him a better leader, and rightly more feared by his enemies, and among his own troops. He does not punish and compromise his forces and deprive them of capable leaders like Azog for the sake of "Being a badass fear monger with psychotic daddy issues".

Also, please point out anything I said being Hyperbole... You have no idea what that word even means. Saying he rules them like a vengeful deity. That is worthless and hyperbolic. A guy killed a vengeful deity with a broken sword. you make it so easy.


Sauron allowed his general to openly disrespect him and lost anyways.

He was so cold and calculating he lasted under a minute on the battlefield. Do you honestly think before you hit submit reply.


Sauron allowed a beaten Orc to openly disrespect him. Voldemort looks his troops way and they look away. Voldemort is clearly more feared.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Saying he rules them like a vengeful deity. That is worthless and hyperbolic. A guy killed a vengeful deity with a broken sword. you make it so easy.

We've been over that, and you lost that debate. And that was only one of the nations I mentioned. Plus, Sauron wasn't killed. He was bodiless, but unlike Voldemort, Sauron was still influencing direct control through fear.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Sauron allowed his general to openly disrespect him and lost anyways.

Except he didn't and we have not seen Part 3 yet, so don't go making hasty generalisations and assumtions in an attempt to asspull something stupid like you usually do.

Originally posted by quanchi112
He was so cold and calculating he lasted under a minute on the battlefield. Do you honestly think before you hit submit reply.

Do you really want to go into all the details of the Battles of the Last Aliance? because that would require bringing in book material, and there is no way to avoid it.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Sauron allowed a beaten Orc to openly disrespect him. Voldemort looks his troops way and they look away. Voldemort is clearly more feared.

They feared his psychosis, not his skill or power.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
We've been over that, and you lost that debate. And that was only one of the nations I mentioned. Plus, Sauron wasn't killed. He was bodiless, but unlike Voldemort, Sauron was still influencing direct control through fear.



Except he didn't and we have not seen Part 3 yet, so don't go making hasty generalisations and assumtions in an attempt to asspull something stupid like you usually do.



Do you really want to go into all the details of the Battles of the Last Aliance? because that would require bringing in book material, and there is no way to avoid it.



They feared his psychosis, not his skill or power. No, I didn't lose. I have been using your own words against you treating like an adult treats a child. Voldemort wasn't killed either by your logic only he exerted influence while returning go his body and seizing control.

Part 3 won't change that interaction. You honestly can't even think for yourself and say things which make no sense at all.

Movie feats only. The guy was so cold and calculating he lunged at a foe with his ring right out in the open and died because of it.




Voldemort was the darkest, most skilled, most powerful wizard in the movie series. The filmmakers actually even say so. You are so ignorant I can't even be mad at you. Never change.

Originally posted by quanchi112
No, I didn't lose. I have been using your own words against you treating like an adult treats a child. Voldemort wasn't killed either by your logic only he exerted influence while returning go his body and seizing control.

You think you have, but in reality you do what you've always done. You've avoided providing even an ounce of credible evidence, posting double standards, goalpost shifting and general flip flopping with plenty of flames and ad hominem sprinkled in. And you think that makes you clever or adult?

Except he was dead. He was survived by Horcruxes. Sauron never recovered the ring, nor did he implant a porton of his immortal soul into it.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Part 3 won't change that interaction. You honestly can't even think for yourself and say things which make no sense at all.

You are inferring things that have not happened yet, thus you have no proof on how it would play out. You are again trying to insult me, but you are failing miserably, because your own logic again works against you.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Movie feats only. The guy was so cold and calculating he lunged at a foe with his ring right out in the open and died because of it.



Wrong. refer to rule number 8. if a character has appeared in more than movies, then the events depicted in that media is also admissible as long as it does not directly contradict the movie canon.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Voldemort was the darkest, most skilled, most powerful wizard in the movie series. The filmmakers actually even say so. You are so ignorant I can't even be mad at you. Never change.

But that's not why they feared him. Dumbledore matched him in terms of skill and power easily, and yet he is not feared and hated for it.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
You think you have, but in reality you do what you've always done. You've avoided providing even an ounce of credible evidence, posting double standards, goalpost shifting and general flip flopping with plenty of flames and ad hominem sprinkled in. And you think that makes you clever or adult?

Except he was dead. He was survived by Horcruxes. Sauron never recovered the ring, nor did he implant a porton of his immortal soul into it.



You are inferring things that have not happened yet, thus you have no proof on how it would play out. You are again trying to insult me, but you are failing miserably, because your own logic again works against you.



Wrong. refer to rule number 8. if a character has appeared in more than movies, then the events depicted in that media is also admissible as long as it does not directly contradict the movie canon.



But that's not why they feared him. Dumbledore matched him in terms of skill and power easily, and yet he is not feared and hated for it. Whether or not he did or not was irrelevant. Try and pay attention. Both could exist without bodies. Both could return to their bodies as long as these magical objects existed. Once the magical objects were destroyed they couldn't come back. I wish you could understand simple principles on your own.

So you believe something from part three will change or retcon the interaction.

Let's take bets. Loser leaves for a month on kmc. Deal ?

Wrong. Movie feats only. It is clearly in the rules. This is the movie versus forum. If you can't understand the simple rules then my child analogy is only proven even more so after that.

The point is no one would fear him if he was some idiot who lacked power and skill. He clearly had the skill and power to rule over others. The fact I have to explain to you the obvious makes me glad you haven't reproduced.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Against the rules.


GTFO.

The MVF Golden Rule:
What is seen on screen is canon in these forums. If your character you wish to use has feats/actions/handicaps that contradict what that character did on screen (movie canon), then it is a violation and is illegal. MOVIE FEATS ONLY!


Its so fun to point this out to the biased trying to argue for book feats.

Yeah but these feats do not contradict the on screen(movie canon) actually they make it make sense. So yeah... burn slowly.

Originally posted by Dramatic Gecko
Yeah but these feats do not contradict the on screen(movie canon) actually they make it make sense. So yeah... burn slowly. It says movie feats only.

Three simple words, MOVIE FEATS ONLY!!!

Do you understand what these three simple words mean when used in sequence ?

Originally posted by quanchi112
Whether or not he did or not was irrelevant. Try and pay attention. Both could exist without bodies. Both could return to their bodies as long as these magical objects existed. Once the magical objects were destroyed they couldn't come back. I wish you could understand simple principles on your own.

Then how was he influencing events as the Necromancer, or the eye apparition? You are acting foolish.

Originally posted by quanchi112
So you believe something from part three will change or retcon the interaction.

Let's take bets. Loser leaves for a month on kmc. Deal ?

I know from the books what happens, but it does not change my point. We have the advantage of foresight Quan, characters in-universe do not.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Wrong. Movie feats only. It is clearly in the rules. This is the movie versus forum. If you can't understand the simple rules then my child analogy is only proven even more so after that.

*yawns and points to rule 8 once again* I only need that exeption to overrule your prattling.

Originally posted by quanchi112
The point is no one would fear him if he was some idiot who lacked power and skill. He clearly had the skill and power to rule over others. The fact I have to explain to you the obvious makes me glad you haven't reproduced.

Yes, so clearly he lost to Harry twice.....

keep up the insulting Quan, it just proves that you are losing, and burning up on the inside all the more for it.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Then how was he influencing events as the Necromancer, or the eye apparition? You are acting foolish.



I know from the books what happens, but it does not change my point. We have the advantage of foresight Quan, characters in-universe do not.



*yawns and points to rule 8 once again* I only need that exeption to overrule your prattling.



Yes, so clearly he lost to Harry twice.....

keep up the insulting Quan, it just proves that you are losing, and burning up on the inside all the more for it. He is bodiless but still interacting just like Voldemort did prior to coming back in a full sized body.


So all in all you say something stupid but won't put your money where your mouth is. So like you.



Again, movie feats only. This is the movie versus forum. Take your book nonsense to the appropriate threads. You clearly aren't grasping three simple words.

He never lost to Harry in a fair fight. I don't expect you to understand though considering reading your posts is hilarious.

Voldemort defeated Harry hands down.

Originally posted by quanchi112
He is bodiless but still interacting just like Voldemort did prior to coming back in a full sized body.

With the exeption that sauron never actually died, Voldemort did.

Originally posted by quanchi112
So all in all you say something stupid but won't put your money where your mouth is. So like you.



........ What? You have yet to refute the point.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Again, movie feats only. This is the movie versus forum. Take your book nonsense to the appropriate threads. You clearly aren't grasping three simple words.

You clearly aren't grasping the exeption that is Rule # 8. Go and read the rules in there entirety before you spout utter nonsense next time.

Originally posted by quanchi112
He never lost to Harry in a fair fight. I don't expect you to understand though considering reading your posts is hilarious.

Voldemort defeated Harry hands down.

When? The only times Voldemort directly fought Harry he lost or was outsmarted and Harry escaped. Of the two duels they had that reached a conclusion, Harry won. The only time Voldemort actually "won" was in the Goblet of Fire, and harry escaped despite being at a massive disadvantage.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
With the exeption that sauron never actually died, Voldemort did.



........ What? You have yet to refute the point.



You clearly aren't grasping the exeption that is Rule # 8. Go and read the rules in there entirety before you spout utter nonsense next time.



When? The only times Voldemort directly fought Harry he lost or was outsmarted and Harry escaped. Of the two duels they had that reached a conclusion, Harry won. The only time Voldemort actually "won" was in the Goblet of Fire, and harry escaped despite being at a massive disadvantage. So your body blowing up and you not being able to physically exist means you didn't die. Please have someone explain to you what death actually means.

The point is let's bet on what happens. Quit being scared of me. Man up.

There is an all versus for the books. Movie feats only make it very clear. Quit ignoring MOVIE FEATS ONLY.

Harry escaping means he lost. I guess if a fight starts and you flee somehow you think that isn't a forfeit. Disarming a wizard is a victory so he did so in OOTP.

Voldemort's wand was never his and his Horcruxes were destroyed by others.

Voldemort blasting him in the forts is another win as well. Harry never won one time.

Watch the films, seriously.

Originally posted by quanchi112
So your body blowing up and you not being able to physically exist means you didn't die. Please have someone explain to you what death actually means.

Except he does, and has repeatedly, read Necromancer, read the eye, read the Nazgul still existing.

Sauron never actually dies, as he is immortal, but he gets rendered inert once the ring is destroyed, there is a gigantic difference. If he died, he would "move on". Unlike Voldemort being trapped in Limbo after his final defeat, Sauron is forced to roam the world as an insubstantial shade, incapable of inflicting change or influence on what he observes.

Originally posted by quanchi112
The point is let's bet on what happens. Quit being scared of me. Man up.

That's not the point, and betting online is a fools errand. I already know what is going to happen, the point is the characters in universe don't. Man your logic is horrible.

Originally posted by quanchi112
There is an all versus for the books. Movie feats only make it very clear. Quit ignoring MOVIE FEATS ONLY.

Quit ignoring section 8 of the rules you are trying to force down everyone's neck. Is every rule bar that one applicable now? Since when do you decide what is and isn't in the rules? Reported for backseat modding.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Harry escaping means he lost. I guess if a fight starts and you flee somehow you think that isn't a forfeit. Disarming a wizard is a victory so he did so in OOTP.

Except Voldemort was out to kill, and he failed miserably. Harry outsmarted him to make that escape, and set up Voldemorts defeat later. It takes real planning to win overall wars, you have to know when to retreat, and when to stand your ground. You would know nothing of these matters, because you have the intellect of a lobotomised chimp.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Voldemort's wand was never his and his Horcruxes were destroyed by others.

Excuses. You sad little man. You even ignore the narrative of your own story.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Voldemort blasting him in the forts is another win as well. Harry never won one time.

Watch the films, seriously.

In the what-now?

Originally posted by quanchi112
Does that mean she doesn't fear him ? It means she didn't fear him enough to not openly defy him to his face (With Voldemort's own stupidity being the only reason Harry is still alive mind you).

Originally posted by NemeBro
It means she didn't fear him enough to not openly defy him to his face (With Voldemort's own stupidity being the only reason Harry is still alive mind you). It means she was still scared of him but didn't blindly follow him. She faked her own death and fled. He found her. Watch the movie. You are ignorant.

Incorrect. Voldemort clearly beat Harry.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Except he does, and has repeatedly, read Necromancer, read the eye, read the Nazgul still existing.

Sauron never actually dies, as he is immortal, but he gets rendered inert once the ring is destroyed, there is a gigantic difference. If he died, he would "move on". Unlike Voldemort being trapped in Limbo after his final defeat, Sauron is forced to roam the world as an insubstantial shade, incapable of inflicting change or influence on what he observes.



That's not the point, and betting online is a fools errand. I already know what is going to happen, the point is the characters in universe don't. Man your logic is horrible.



Quit ignoring section 8 of the rules you are trying to force down everyone's neck. Is every rule bar that one applicable now? Since when do you decide what is and isn't in the rules? Reported for backseat modding.



Except Voldemort was out to kill, and he failed miserably. Harry outsmarted him to make that escape, and set up Voldemorts defeat later. It takes real planning to win overall wars, you have to know when to retreat, and when to stand your ground. You would know nothing of these matters, because you have the intellect of a lobotomised chimp.



Excuses. You sad little man. You even ignore the narrative of your own story.



In the what-now? Voldemort still existed as well.

Voldemort not only existed he got his body back and took over. Sauron never got his body back. Poor guy. By still existing Voldemort still was in the same boat as Sauron and didn't need to have his Horcruxes on him to retain his body.

By your own stupidy you realize Voldemort didn't move on either so he's in the same boat. You don't even realize what you're even saying. The Horcruxes or the ring weighs down the soul so you can come back. Think.

Peter can change what he wants. You're such a scared little boi.

So you want to insult and then want to report. I don't respect you, rat. Movie feats only.


Disarming is still a win in the wizarding world.

Not only that but let Dumbledore fight his battle for him. You're a dishonest debater.

Voldemort does know when to leave. Harry is lucky others fight his battles for him.

Context.

In the forest.

Voldemort owned Harry.

Originally posted by quanchi112
It means she was still scared of him but didn't blindly follow him.

I already said that.



No wonder they don't fear him, considering how he was too pussy to kill her after finding her.



Your mother is a fat whore.



You have no idea what I'm talking about, do you?

Tell me, what did you think I was referring to?

DSZ, stop devoting so much time and effort to responding quan.

He's trolling you, are you really this stupid?

Originally posted by NemeBro
I already said that.



No wonder they don't fear him, considering how he was too pussy to kill her after finding her.



Your mother is a fat whore.



You have no idea what I'm talking about, do you?

Tell me, what did you think I was referring to? She didn't openly defy him she faked her own death.



Villain usually loses, kiddo.

You are saying the only reason Harry survived is due to the fact Voldemort was obsessed with being the only one to kill him when he could have had anyone else do so.

I'm a lot smarter than you.

That is incorrect reasoning as always.

Originally posted by quanchi112

You are saying the only reason Harry survived is due to the fact Voldemort was obsessed with being the only one to kill him when he could have had anyone else do so. Nope. Try again.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Nope. Try again. You are lying. That is what you meant.

Originally posted by quanchi112
You are lying. That is what you meant. No, what I meant was that when Voldemort thought he killed Harry in DH2, he had Narcissus check the body and make sure he was dead, and she proceeded to blatantly lie to her face. For some reason, Voldemort neither used Leglimency to read her mind, nor did he check the body himself.

He's an idiot.

To be fair though, Voldemort's troops were a lot more powerful individually than Ravenna's, Barvmorda's, or even Sauron's troops.

Ravenna and Bavmorda had basic soldiers. Bavmorda had 2 generals and 1 of them betrayed her. For Ravenna, the only follower of note was her brother. Sauron has a bunch of orcs, not even Urukhai. His most powerful underling I believe was Saruman. It's been some time since I watched LOTR, so I may have missed someone of note.

Voldemort's troops on the other hand are all some of the most powerful mages in the Potter universe. It makes sense if they're also harder to keep in line than your normal rabble of foot soldiers.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Or I just like arguing every facet of this debate as possible. I don't get emotional like you.



Voldemort inspires a lot more fear from his troops and rightfully so. He killed his own men whereas I don't recall Sauron ever doing so.

Voldemort had everyone afraid of him whereas Sauron's general wouldn't care about making open demands from the guy.

Nah, you're clearly butthurt over the Sauron Vs Voldermort thing and why you keep trying to find something Voldermort is better at. Everyone knows this

Cos Sauron doesn't have to kill his own troops to keep them in line, they fear/respect him like a devine being. Killing your own troops is generally bad practice, dummy.

Again, your failure to understand the Azog scene doesn't make your nonsense correct.

Sauron won this thread, stop crying, deal with it and make a thread where Voldermort can finally win something over Sauron, I gave you several suggestions

Originally posted by FrothByte
To be fair though, Voldemort's troops were a lot more powerful individually than Ravenna's, Barvmorda's, or even Sauron's troops.

Ravenna and Bavmorda had basic soldiers. Bavmorda had 2 generals and 1 of them betrayed her. For Ravenna, the only follower of note was her brother. Sauron has a bunch of orcs, not even Urukhai. His most powerful underling I believe was Saruman. It's been some time since I watched LOTR, so I may have missed someone of note.

Voldemort's troops on the other hand are all some of the most powerful mages in the Potter universe. It makes sense if they're also harder to keep in line than your normal rabble of foot soldiers. It is implied in The Hobbit that Sauron would be able to bring even Smaug under heel, which is why Gandalf organized the quest in the first place.

Originally posted by NemeBro
No, what I meant was that when Voldemort thought he killed Harry in DH2, he had Narcissus check the body and make sure he was dead, and she proceeded to blatantly lie to her face. For some reason, Voldemort neither used Leglimency to read her mind, nor did he check the body himself.

He's an idiot. Well for one he used the Ak spell and wasn't aware of the other Horcrux. Secondly, why would he check on him ?


How often do villains have heroes at their mercy. Hell, Link is beaten by Zant easily at one point. This happens all the time. We see heroes beaten yet survive so to ignore all else and the circumstances to try and say he's stupid is stupid.

Quit ignoring the circumstances which explain why he didn't check at the time.

Many villains have heroes at their mercy but for whatever reason they survive. It's called creating drama.

Originally posted by Robtard
Nah, you're clearly butthurt over the Sauron Vs Voldermort thing and why you keep trying to find something Voldermort is better at. Everyone knows this

Cos Sauron doesn't have to kill his own troops to keep them in line, they fear/respect him like a devine being. Killing your own troops is generally bad practice, dummy.

Again, your failure to understand the Azog scene doesn't make your nonsense correct.

Sauron won this thread, stop crying, deal with it and make a thread where Voldermort can finally win something over Sauron, I gave you several suggestions I am trying to think of some thing Sauron has a chance in.

Voldemort doesn't have to kill them either. They all fear him and are scared shitless of him.

Voldemort assumed power unlike Sauron. Voldemort was more successful than Sauron ever had been.


I already showed his general disrespecting him. When Voldemort was alone with his troops they wouldn't even make eye contact for long because they were that scared of him.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Well for one he used the Ak spell and wasn't aware of the other Horcrux. Secondly, why would he check on him ?


How often do villains have heroes at their mercy. Hell, Link is beaten by Zant easily at one point. This happens all the time. We see heroes beaten yet survive so to ignore all else and the circumstances to try and say he's stupid is stupid.

Quit ignoring the circumstances which explain why he didn't check at the time.

Many villains have heroes at their mercy but for whatever reason they survive. It's called creating drama.


It's called lazy writing.

"Oh well Zant did i-"

Zant is also an idiot.

Originally posted by NemeBro
It's called lazy writing.

"Oh well Zant did i-"

Zant is also an idiot. Dorf has failed every single time.




No, it isn't. He believed he died due to not being aware of Horcrux and having it confirmed by a Malfoy.

I think it's important to distinguish fear and respect. If we're going with which villain kept their underlings in greater thrall, I'd definitely say Sauron.

But I never got the impression that this was entirely the result of personal fear of Sauron.

Voldemort inspired utter and abject fear in the vast majority of the characters. Not caution, not respect, but fear. Why? Because he's a psychotic 'tard who also happens to be the most powerful wizard alive.

Actually the why in Tommy boy's case is that most of the wizarding world are cowardly morons.

Good idea for a thread. Bad contestants.

Originally posted by Darth Martin
Good idea for a thread. Bad contestants. Why ?

Originally posted by quanchi112
Dorf has failed every single time.




No, it isn't. He believed he died due to not being aware of Horcrux and having it confirmed by a Malfoy.

Dorf only looses because he's against Link.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Why ? For me, personally. Not a big Potter fan. Sauron is totally overrated because he has no track record. All hype. Can't even remember that wretched Snow White film.

Where's Vader? Bane? Hell, even Artemisia from the new 300 sequel are more deserving.

Originally posted by Dramatic Gecko
Dorf only looses because he's against Link. The kid with relatively no experience and very little training. Yeah, he goes down to a noob every single time. It is embarrassing.

Originally posted by Darth Martin
For me, personally. Not a big Potter fan. Sauron is totally overrated because he has no track record. All hype. Can't even remember that wretched Snow White film.

Where's Vader? Bane? Hell, even Artemisia from the new 300 sequel are more deserving. Voldemort is more feared than any Star Wars character either so it wouldn't make a difference.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Voldemort is more feared than any Star Wars character either so it wouldn't make a difference.

You're High. DARTH VADER!!! No one is more feared. And while we're at it. Vader beats VOldermort.

Originally posted by Dramatic Gecko
You're High. DARTH VADER!!! No one is more feared. And while we're at it. Vader beats VOldermort. Palpatine didn't fear him. He wasn't even the top gun. He took orders like a lap dog and called someone else master.




Voldemort would beat him quite easily.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Dorf has failed every single time.




No, it isn't. He believed he died due to not being aware of Horcrux and having it confirmed by a Malfoy. And he believed her without even bothering to read her mind. This directly contributed to his defeat.

He's an idiot.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Palpatine didn't fear him. He wasn't even the top gun. He took orders like a lap dog and called someone else master.




Voldemort would beat him quite easily.

So because Vader has a superior? He would lose against Voldermort?

You have the logic of a five year old. The Force > The power to destroy a planet > Voldermort.

Boom! Moving on.

Originally posted by quanchi112
The kid with relatively no experience and very little training. Yeah, he goes down to a noob every single time. It is embarrassing.

Sometimes you don't need experience (seven temple average) when you are the incarnate of an ancient warrior who wrecked the fricken Demon of Evil.

You just need to be a LEGEND to win. hence the name: THe Legend of Zelda (link being the LEGEND!)

Originally posted by NemeBro
And he believed her without even bothering to read her mind. This directly contributed to his defeat.

He's an idiot. He just hit him with an Avada Kedavra. Again, heroes tend to survive. He isn't all knowing. Unlike most villains they don't ever rise to power and slaughter the opposition.


Voldemort is a genius unlike Ganondorf the colossal failure.

Originally posted by Dramatic Gecko
So because Vader has a superior? He would lose against Voldermort?

You have the logic of a five year old. The Force > The power to destroy a planet > Voldermort.

Boom! Moving on. meaning his superior doesn't fear him he controls him.

Voldemort destroys any Jedi or Sith.

Power doesn't equate to greater formidability. Are you ten ?

Voldemort film feats>>>force film feats. He has more abilities and a one shit kill curse which is greater than any force attack.

You lost. Now get lost.

Originally posted by Dramatic Gecko
Sometimes you don't need experience (seven temple average) when you are the incarnate of an ancient warrior who wrecked the fricken Demon of Evil.

You just need to be a LEGEND to win. hence the name: THe Legend of Zelda (link being the LEGEND!) Not having experience only demonstrates the horrible incompetence in the bad guy.

Originally posted by quanchi112
He just hit him with an Avada Kedavra. Again, heroes tend to survive. He isn't all knowing. Unlike most villains they don't ever rise to power and slaughter the opposition.


Voldemort is a genius unlike Ganondorf the colossal failure.

Gannondorf took over the world 4 times. How many times has Voldermort?

Originally posted by Dramatic Gecko
Gannondorf took over the world 4 times. How many times has Voldermort? In Tp Zant overtook it so don't lie. The world also consists of less than a thousand people from what we see so not impressed.

Voldemort beat the hero unlike Dorf.

Originally posted by quanchi112
In Tp Zant overtook it so don't lie. The world also consists of less than a thousand people from what we see so not impressed.

Voldemort beat the hero unlike Dorf.

Zant was occupied by Gannon at the time and Link would wreck voldermort, ganon and harry over and over again.

Originally posted by Dramatic Gecko
Zant was occupied by Gannon at the time and Link would wreck voldermort, ganon and harry over and over again. he used his power but it was Zant. Zant was competent unlike Dorf who lost as soon as he showed up every time in the game,

Voldemort would crush Dorf or any other Hylian threat very quickly.

Originally posted by quanchi112
he used his power but it was Zant. Zant was competent unlike Dorf who lost as soon as he showed up every time in the game,

Voldemort would crush Dorf or any other Hylian threat very quickly.

The Scenario brought it to my attention that Zant was possessed by Gannon up until the point of the giant diamond thing.

Originally posted by Dramatic Gecko
The Scenario brought it to my attention that Zant was possessed by Gannon up until the point of the giant diamond thing. He is wrong. They are two different characters. Zant was competent and Dorf was not. Dorf was beaten very quickly both times we see him stirring up trouble in the game.

Originally posted by quanchi112
He is wrong. They are two different characters. Zant was competent and Dorf was not. Dorf was beaten very quickly both times we see him stirring up trouble in the game.

The evidence he brought is relevant and makes perfect sense, plus scenes and dialogue from Zant support it. So Gannondorf took over Hyrule with Zant as his puppet. Ganon/Zant TKd link and beat the crap out of Midna and stole the fused shadows. Normal Zant summoned the giant skeleton dragon then pissed off, and was later defeated by Link. Normal Zant failed in everything he did... and it takes four boss fights in a row to beat Gannon.

Originally posted by Dramatic Gecko
The evidence he brought is relevant and makes perfect sense, plus scenes and dialogue from Zant support it. So Gannondorf took over Hyrule with Zant as his puppet. Ganon/Zant TKd link and beat the crap out of Midna and stole the fused shadows. Normal Zant summoned the giant skeleton dragon then pissed off, and was later defeated by Link. Normal Zant failed in everything he did... and it takes four boss fights in a row to beat Gannon. False. He was his general but he took Hyrule himself with his Twibeasts.

Zant did so but Dorf was not present. We see Dorf later on. Link murders him.

Zant was not even killed by !ink and takes multiple levels to beat him too.

Dorf failed both times he showed up. Once by the sages and once by Link.

Originally posted by quanchi112
False. He was his general but he took Hyrule himself with his Twibeasts.

Zant did so but Dorf was not present. We see Dorf later on. Link murders him.

Zant was not even killed by !ink and takes multiple levels to beat him too.

Dorf failed both times he showed up. Once by the sages and once by Link.

Yes but that assuming Zant was himself the whole time, and even so when the difference in Link's strength between the Zant encounter and the Gannon encounter is quite broad. So you have no point.

Now shut it and argue about the actual thread this is Movie versus.

Originally posted by Dramatic Gecko
Yes but that assuming Zant was himself the whole time, and even so when the difference in Link's strength between the Zant encounter and the Gannon encounter is quite broad. So you have no point.

Now shut it and argue about the actual thread this is Movie versus.


Link's strength didn't improve but his abilities did. The point is Zant was good enough to best him unlike Dorf. Dorf is a lot more powerful and still was soundly defeated.

Voldemort clearly. His troops won't even look him in the eye. Sauron has his general openly make demands from him.

Voldemort wins. There is no evidence to suggest otherwise.

Sauron

I was going to say Voldemort but then I realized the only people who know he exist are wizards.

Someone in here made a good point about fear vs. respect. Very good point and it changed my mind.

Voldemort is definitely more feared by his followers.
Sauron is more respected, or at least has more control over his subjects.

The alien queen.

Originally posted by God Cloth Seiya
Sauron

I was going to say Voldemort but then I realized the only people who know he exist are wizards. This isn't about who is feared by more it is who is feared more among their own troops. This means it only pertains to the people under their command.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Someone in here made a good point about fear vs. respect. Very good point and it changed my mind.

Voldemort is definitely more feared by his followers.
Sauron is more respected, or at least has more control over his subjects. Another convert in my Deatheater army.

Voldy is more feared by his army.

Sauron's orcs don't necessarily fear him. At least not to the extent deatheaters feared voldy

Originally posted by Firefly218
Voldy is more feared by his army.

Sauron's orcs don't necessarily fear him. At least not to the extent deatheaters feared voldy

Correct but Vold was feared by his army and all of Hogwarts..no one feared Sauron cause he was dead. And they all laughed at Gandolf for saying he had returned..

The Sauron side has conceded the argument to Voldemort. Rejoice.

Anyone disagree with the evidentiary backed winner, Voldemort.

I don't know much about the others, but from what I do know, Sauron takes this easily. Not even a good question. :P

Literally, when Sauron's form was destroyed, his troops couldn't even fight anymore. He had enough "will" power to control entire legions. If you've read the LOTR, some dialogue between the orcs gives it away. They're terrified, absolutely terrified, of even the Nazgul.

A much more fair thread, IMO, would have the Nazgul in the place of Sauron. The others are more or less human. Sauron is a cosmic being whose magical dominion was simply "torture". That should say something.

Originally posted by Viritrilbia
I don't know much about the others, but from what I do know, Sauron takes this easily. Not even a good question. :P

Literally, when Sauron's form was destroyed, his troops couldn't even fight anymore. He had enough "will" power to control entire legions. If you've read the LOTR, some dialogue between the orcs gives it away. They're terrified, absolutely terrified, of even the Nazgul.

A much more fair thread, IMO, would have the Nazgul in the place of Sauron. The others are more or less human. Sauron is a cosmic being whose magical dominion was simply "torture". That should say something. Voldemort's siege stopped as well. Horrible reasoning and Azog directly challenged Sauron. No death eater would dare challenge Voldemort to his face in an isolated situation similar to Azog's defiance.

Superman and Batman aka the murder brothers are the most feared.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Voldemort's siege stopped as well. Horrible reasoning and Azog directly challenged Sauron. No death eater would dare challenge Voldemort to his face in an isolated situation similar to Azog's defiance.

I don't think so. Sauron in that form was much less terrifying as he was still lying low. According to generally accepted canon orcs never spoke with Sauron, even leaders like Azog. Remember they took a lot of liberties with the Hobbit films.

Voldemort may be more unpredictable and that leads to a worse chance of standing up to him successfully. However, Sauron would kill his own troops at random. According to the books, his closest armies were driven mainly by terror. NOT by any external hate towards the other party.

Originally posted by Viritrilbia
I don't think so. Sauron in that form was much less terrifying as he was still lying low. According to generally accepted canon orcs never spoke with Sauron, even leaders like Azog. Remember they took a lot of liberties with the Hobbit films.

Voldemort may be more unpredictable and that leads to a worse chance of standing up to him successfully. However, Sauron would kill his own troops at random. According to the books, his closest armies were driven mainly by terror. NOT by any external hate towards the other party. We are discussing the movies not the books you obvious sock. We debate based off the films so that means you don't close your gross eyes and pretend it didn't happen and then reference the books.

Films only. No one dared to say shit to Voldemort amongst his troops while the same cannot be said for Sauron's. The answer is clearly Voldemort. Azog, kiddo.

Originally posted by quanchi112
We are discussing the movies not the books you obvious sock. We debate based off the films so that means you don't close your gross eyes and pretend it didn't happen and then reference the books.

Films only. No one dared to say shit to Voldemort amongst his troops while the same cannot be said for Sauron's. The answer is clearly Voldemort. Azog, kiddo.

Wow, I'm surprised at the immaturity.

Point out the exact words where I said it didn't happen in the movie.
That's right, you can't. You're making assumptions and putting words into my mounth.

I said it never happened in the books, which is true.

Of course we are discussing based on the movies. That doesn't mean movie Sauron is any less fearful. The question was "Who was more feared among their troops", not "Who had more bold Captains", because, as you know, Azog is much braver than any leader Voldemort had.

Azog didn't say shit to Sauron. Give me his exact words. Thanks. And, by the way, there's a reason Sauron has a big lead in the poll.

I think I can sum this up easily: Crabbe tried to murder Harry. Despite being specifically ordered to not kill Harry by Voldemort(as everyone was under orders to do), Crabbe tried. A 17 yr. old wasn't afraid to defy Voldemort.

Originally posted by Surtur
I think I can sum this up easily: Crabbe tried to murder Harry. Despite being specifically ordered to not kill Harry by Voldemort(as everyone was under orders to do), Crabbe tried. A 17 yr. old wasn't afraid to defy Voldemort. Read what it is I wrote. No one in front of Voldemort would dare to challenge what he wanted. That kid wouldn't dare defy Voldemort in the same room. Azog defied Sauron to his face. That's blatant disrespect. Surture you're an idiot all over the map. You're a hopeless escapee of reality.

Originally posted by Viritrilbia
Wow, I'm surprised at the immaturity.

Point out the exact words where I said it didn't happen in the movie.
That's right, you can't. You're making assumptions and putting words into my mounth.

I said it never happened in the books, which is true.

Of course we are discussing based on the movies. That doesn't mean movie Sauron is any less fearful. The question was "Who was more feared among their troops", not "Who had more bold Captains", because, as you know, Azog is much braver than any leader Voldemort had.

Azog didn't say shit to Sauron. Give me his exact words. Thanks. And, by the way, there's a reason Sauron has a big lead in the poll. Absurd. Azog was willfull but he probably knew Sauron needed his help whereas Voldemort wouldn't hesitate to slaughter anyone who he felt like especially if disrespected.

Bias and people citing the books is the reason. If you aren't enough of a debater to reference the scene yourself you don't belong in this discussion. He disrespected him. Period. No one would dare to do that to Voldemort.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Read what it is I wrote. No one in front of Voldemort would dare to challenge what he wanted. That kid wouldn't dare defy Voldemort in the same room. Azog defied Sauron to his face. That's blatant disrespect. Surture you're an idiot all over the map. You're a hopeless escapee of reality.

The dude can't even get teenagers to follow his orders lol. Some fat kid who probably hasn't even been to third base yet defied him.

Originally posted by Surtur
The dude can't even get teenagers to follow his orders lol. Some fat kid who probably hasn't even been to third base yet defied him. Some irrelevant loser in the heat of a battle (how do you know he was aiming at Harry) isn't the same thing as your own general defying you to your face. You're a dumb person.

Originally posted by quanchi112
You're a dumb person.

Honestly kid, learn what respect is.

You demand that I pull the scene while you first referenced it. Then you don't pull your own scene as proof. What a hypocrite.

Azog didn't disrespect him. The fact is Voldemort's servants could desert him. Sauron's servants didn't dare desert, even hundreds of miles away while he was sitting on his throne.

As for the bias part, you can't prove you're not biased for Voldemort. So that goes nowhere. Terrible argument.

Originally posted by Viritrilbia
Honestly kid, learn what respect is.

You demand that I pull the scene while you first referenced it. Then you don't pull your own scene as proof. What a hypocrite.

Azog didn't disrespect him. The fact is Voldemort's servants could desert him. Sauron's servants didn't dare desert, even hundreds of miles away while he was sitting on his throne.

As for the bias part, you can't prove you're not biased for Voldemort. So that goes nowhere. Terrible argument. I know what respect is and by reading your posts you aren't worthy of it.

If you want to say I'm being inaccurate and lying then by all means pull the rug out from under me.

He made demands of him. He didn't just sweat bullets and agree. He stood tall and wanted Thorin. Sauron's servants fled frequently in battle. They were often cowardly and petty. Voldemort had his troops carry out missions while being many miles away. Harry was still alive and in the heat of the moment those who were fearful chose to flee under the gravity of that situation.

I am objective unlike yourself. Facts bolster my case whereas you Appleseed to the posters to cite books which has no basis in a movie only forum, boy.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I know what respect is and by reading your posts you aren't worthy of it.

If you want to say I'm being inaccurate and lying then by all means pull the rug out from under me.

He made demands of him. He didn't just sweat bullets and agree. He stood tall and wanted Thorin. Sauron's servants fled frequently in battle. They were often cowardly and petty. Voldemort had his troops carry out missions while being many miles away. Harry was still alive and in the heat of the moment those who were fearful chose to flee under the gravity of that situation.

I am objective unlike yourself. Facts bolster my case whereas you Appleseed to the posters to cite books which has no basis in a movie only forum, boy.

You are not the one to judge whether someone is worthy of respect. I've been reading this forum for a long time and I've seen many of your posts. You insult people all the time. I do not. There's a vast difference and I hope you'll see it someday.

You contradict yourself. Now you justify Voldemort's troops deserting but apply a different logic to Sauron's. You say his troops are cowardly and petty but don't apply that logic to Captains like Azog.

Sauron's will, literally, physically, drove on his armies. Voldemort's did not. Sauron in The Hobbit was lying low and still building up a form, like I said. In LOTR he is much more distant and terrifying. End of story.

What you are doing is cherry-picking. Now that kind of argument may work on some others here but it sure doesn't work on me.

This is clearly a spite thread. I feel a bit of pity for you since you created this poll clearly trying to shame other users. If you actually wanted a real response, don't get all angry when they post their opinion. You say "who wins" and then try to tear down honest responses. You might as well have said "Voldemort wins" and have done with it. And now it has backfired on you.

Originally posted by Viritrilbia
You are not the one to judge whether someone is worthy of respect. I've been reading this forum for a long time and I've seen many of your posts. You insult people all the time. I do not. There's a vast difference and I hope you'll see it someday.

You contradict yourself. Now you justify Voldemort's troops deserting but apply a different logic to Sauron's. You say his troops are cowardly and petty but don't apply that logic to Captains like Azog.

Sauron's will, literally, physically, drove on his armies. Voldemort's did not. Sauron in The Hobbit was lying low and still building up a form, like I said. In LOTR he is much more distant and terrifying. End of story.

What you are doing is cherry-picking. Now that kind of argument may work on some others here but it sure doesn't work on me. Oh very surprising you're very familiar with this forum but only recently have come out of the woodwork. I decided who is worthy of MY respect and who isn't.

I said the situation was different and explained why. I am not talking about the petty grunts. But let's get into this a little more so to further validate my point. Lucius Malfoy was shaking in his boots and wasn't afraid of standing up to Albus Dumbledore but wouldn't even even give a stank eye in the presence of Voldemort in his friggin house. He was a coward to Voldemort. He wasn't a lower level grunt and the same wizard deserted when the situation played itself out in the midst of a massive battle. That doesn't mean he'd openly defy him with the two of them alone in a room as Azog did to Sauron. Now do you grasp it ?

No, I am basing it off of the general fear of Voldemort as opposed to Sauron with on screen evidence. Voldemort was the most feared wizard by far and his troops wouldn't say shit otherwise in a one on one confrontation with fear of reprisal.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Oh very surprising you're very familiar with this forum but only recently have come out of the woodwork. I decided who is worthy of MY respect and who isn't.



Doesn't change my point. Nice evasion skills but I see through it and I hope others do to (I know some that will.)

Now, about your "evidence".
The people who you say are "afraid" of Voldemort are humans. That means they are concerned for their own survival and lives. They are cunning and weasely.
Orcs, on the other hand, are driven more by anger than cunning to survive. It's a totally different mindset and Azog is by far one of the bravest of the Orcs.

I also admire how you conveniently ignored the rest of my post. Disappointing but not surprising.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Some irrelevant loser in the heat of a battle (how do you know he was aiming at Harry) isn't the same thing as your own general defying you to your face. You're a dumb person.

How do I know he was aiming at Harry? Who was he aiming the sentient dark magical fire at, then? I guess the dude just really hated Ron? Or Hermoine?

Originally posted by Viritrilbia
Doesn't change my point. Nice evasion skills but I see through it and I hope others do to (I know some that will.)

Now, about your "evidence".
The people who you say are "afraid" of Voldemort are humans. That means they are concerned for their own survival and lives. They are cunning and weasely.
Orcs, on the other hand, are driven more by anger than cunning to survive. It's a totally different mindset and Azog is by far one of the bravest of the Orcs.

I also admire how you conveniently ignored the rest of my post. Disappointing but not surprising. Ironic since you sidestep my well thought out and articulated post to talk about my evasive skills.

What ? Azog cried out when he lost his arm to Thorin and was rushed to safety to preserve his life. He seethed in anger but didn't complain when other orcs whisked him away to safety when he lost that confrontation.

Azog stood right up to Sauron in a one on one meeting. Sauron was still powerful enough to crush Gandalf so don't act like he was powerless there against Azog. Azog made demands that wouldn't happen against Lord Voldemort. It didn't ever happen.

Voldemort made highly skilled wizards with a proud history utter cowards in his presence in Lucius' home. Voldemort is the true dark lord. Sauron would bow down like he bowed down to Morgoth. "Servant of Morgoth."

Originally posted by Surtur
How do I know he was aiming at Harry? Who was he aiming the sentient dark magical fire at, then? I guess the dude just really hated Ron? Or Hermoine? So three wizards they all wanted to kill but you claim Harry only without proof. You made the claim so unless you can back it up it becomes baseless.

Originally posted by quanchi112
So three wizards they all wanted to kill but you claim Harry only without proof. You made the claim so unless you can back it up it becomes baseless.

Just admit a chubby teenager wasn't afraid of Voldemort. I doubt Crabbe had even held a titty before.

Originally posted by Surtur
Just admit a chubby teenager wasn't afraid of Voldemort. I doubt Crabbe had even held a titty before. When was it ever proven he wasn't afraid of Voldemort ?? You really are seriously stupid.

Originally posted by quanchi112
When was it ever proven he wasn't afraid of Voldemort ?? You really are seriously stupid.

Weren't you using examples of someone questioning someone else as an example of lack of fear?

Yet a chubby teen ignoring the one main rule Voldemort had handed down? Gets nothing from you. Did they suddenly forget about the massive army of evil wizards outside? Or the telepathic message from Voldemort asking Harry to be handed over, that everyone heard?

Originally posted by Surtur
Weren't you using examples of someone questioning someone else as an example of lack of fear?

Yet a chubby teen ignoring the one main rule Voldemort had handed down? Gets nothing from you. Did they suddenly forget about the massive army of evil wizards outside? Or the telepathic message from Voldemort asking Harry to be handed over, that everyone heard? Again you haven't proven the teen who wasn't chubby anymore in the film (you are a moron) tried to kill Harry and Harry alone. That's a baseless claim. It's about as relevant as saying Gollum the anorexic defied Sauron for years. Despite an army Sauron never reacquired the ring but Gollum did. An anorexic defied this fallen servant of Morgoth.

Prove he tried to kill Harry. I can prove Azog made demands from Sauron to his face. What wizard made demands of Voldemort to his face ?

Lol wait so you think he just sent the sentient dark magical fire after him in order to just ruffle his feathers?

Originally posted by Surtur
Lol wait so you think he just sent the sentient dark magical fire after him in order to just ruffle his feathers? He let loose a spell in which he couldn't properly control. It killed him you idiot. Was that his intention ? For **** sake you're a moron.

Originally posted by quanchi112
He let loose a spell in which he couldn't properly control. It killed him you idiot. Was that his intention ? For **** sake you're a moron.

I never said his intention was to kill himself. His intention was to kill Harry and he lost control of the spell.

Him being not very good at magic doesn't actually change anything about his intent. What do you feel he would have done if he *could* control the fire?

Originally posted by Surtur
I never said his intention was to kill himself. His intention was to kill Harry and he lost control. Prove he wanted to kill Harry. He lost control of it which wasn't his intention at all. And you have avoided the other example of someone making a direct face to face demand from Sauron but that never occurred with Voldemort. You are as always a clueless schmuck.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Prove he wanted to kill Harry. He lost control of it which wasn't his intention at all. And you have avoided the other example of someone making a direct face to face demand from Sauron but that never occurred with Voldemort. You are as always a clueless schmuck.

I never said his intention was to lose control. What do you feel he intended to do with this spell if he could control it?

Are you seriously going to argue he didn't use this spell with deadly intent?

I dunno. This scene kinda seems to showcase the absolute terror Voldy puts his own ppl thru. It is palpable.

https://youtu.be/IBPs04qscJY

So far, can't remember a single scene in LotR where Sauron made his own troops (particularly his higher ups) tremble in this way.

Originally posted by Surtur
I never said his intention was to lose control. What do you feel he intended to do with this spell if he could control it?

Are you seriously going to argue he didn't use this spell with deadly intent? You made the claim he tried to kill Harry.

Prove it. If you can't prove it then don't make these claims. It's obvious the deatheaters feared Voldemort far more than Sauron's orcs feared him.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
I dunno. This scene kinda seems to showcase the absolute terror Voldy puts his own ppl thru. It is palpable.

https://youtu.be/IBPs04qscJY

So far, can't remember a single scene in LotR where Sauron made his own troops (particularly his higher ups) tremble in this way.

Originally posted by quanchi112
You made the claim he tried to kill Harry.

Prove it. If you can't prove it then don't make these claims. It's obvious the deatheaters feared Voldemort far more than Sauron's orcs feared him.

You made the claim he wasn't trying to kill him. I'm asking you what he planned to do with the dark magical fire.

If the goal was to capture Harry instead of killing him..regardless of whether or not Crabbe could control the spell perfectly...it's not a spell that makes sense to be used for that lol. Not when mind control and other disabling spells exist.

Originally posted by Surtur
You made the claim he wasn't trying to kill him. I'm asking you what he planned to do with the dark magical fire.

If the goal was to capture Harry instead of killing him..regardless of whether or not Crabbe could control the spell perfectly...it's not a spell that makes sense to be used for that lol. Not when mind control and other disabling spells exist. You made the initial claim in which your point is based off. I don't have to disprove your claims you have to first prove them. Do you not after all these years understand simple debating ?



I was also Goyle not Crabbe you dumb ****. Watch trhe ****ing movies you insufferable hack. As always you cannot back your claims or even reference the proper character due to ignorance.

Originally posted by quanchi112
You made the initial claim in which your point is based off. I don't have to disprove your claims you have to first prove them. Do you not after all these years understand simple debating ?



I was also Goyle not Crabbe you dumb ****. Watch trhe ****ing movies you insufferable hack. As always you cannot back your claims or even reference the proper character due to ignorance.

I find it strange you continually avoid the question: why dd he conjure up the spell if not to kill?

Originally posted by Surtur
I find it strange you continually avoid the question: why dd he conjure up the spell if not to kill? How do you know he intendedit to kill them all ? Again you made the claim he wanted Harry dead so prove it.

Originally posted by quanchi112
How do you know he intendedit to kill them all ? Again you made the claim he wanted Harry dead so prove it.

I make the claim because he conjured up a spell whose only purpose would be to achieve the death of Harry.

I have asked you to refute that by showing what other purposes he'd use it for. Did he think Harry was cold and just wanted to keep him warm until Voldemort got there?

Originally posted by Surtur
I make the claim because he conjured up a spell whose only purpose would be to achieve the death of Harry.

I have asked you to refute that by showing what other purposes he'd use it for. Did he think Harry was cold and just wanted to keep him warm until Voldemort got there? No, he let loose a spell in which you want to maintain control over so you didn't prove he sent it after Harry. There were two other wizards there. If you can't prove he sent it after Harry then it is a baseless claim.

Originally posted by quanchi112
No, he let loose a spell in which you want to maintain control over so you didn't prove he sent it after Harry. There were two other wizards there. If you can't prove he sent it after Harry then it is a baseless claim.

They wanted to kill Harry though lol, they were egging Malfoy on to do it, and essentially told him to f*ck off when he tried to say to take him alive.

The fact you feel they didn't want all 3 of them dead is very very odd.

But wait no it's not odd because you're doing it in defense of Voldemort. Damn what if someone made a "Khan vs Voldemort" thread? Your heart would break.