Revan Vs Mace Windu

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Board Walker
This is Revan post of the mmo rpg SWOTOR.

Let us assume that at the end of the fight with the player controlled group, he then used his powers to open up a space/time rift and escaped. He then landed in the time of the clone wars, specifically during the time frame of episode 3. Windu is off to arrest Palpatine, however due to the strange force disturbance generated by Revan's arrival Palpatine leaves his office.

Thus Windu arrives to Palpatine's office alone intending to arrest him, to instead find a time/space displace Revan.

Does Revan with his centuries of battle experience, and force knowledge gained from studying as well as reading the Sith Emperor's mind aid him? Or Does Windu's vaapad give him the victory in this fight to the death.

Nephthys
Revan

Stealth Moose
Post-TOR Revan is either dead or healing from his epic battle with four heavies.

During-TOR Revan probably takes this.

The_Tempest
Revan. Good fight, though.

NewGuy01
Mace, he's faster and more skilled, and his abilities with the force are honestly not far behind Revan's.

carthage
Windu

Lord Stark
During Star Wars: Revan, Revan takes this. During TOR Windu, as he's far more shrouded in darkness.

juyomaster34
This was done before.....I sided with Revan....then I sided with Windu.....
I think Revan would side with Windu and intervene only when Skywaler intervenes.....
vs Skywaler....Revan all the way......

After feeling how dangerous Sidious is in the Force.....Imo he would fight Sidious himself....
and win....with Mace arriving in the middle,almost close to the end.......

Jmanghan
Mace Windu goes Vaapad on his ass, and whoops him. Revan is my favorite Character in the whole Mythos, but that doesn't change the fact that Mace's lightsaber skill is too great, sure, Revan (most likely) has the edge in force abilities, but the majority of fights between either Jedi or Sith are lightsaber-based combat. I just can't see him being able to defeat Mace's Vaapad.

DarthAnt66
You act like Mace's Vaapad is a automatic win against Dark side opponents. :facepalm: Against an opponent like Revan, it won't really be that effective to tip the balance. Look at what it did against someone like Sora Bulq...wait...nothing. Or Ventress-wait...nothing either.

Jmanghan
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
You act like Mace's Vaapad is a automatic win against Dark side opponents. :facepalm: Against an opponent like Revan, it won't really be that effective to tip the balance. Look at what it did against someone like Sora Bulq...wait...nothing. Or Ventress-wait...nothing either. Revan isn't dark side anymore... o-o Psychotic, maybe, but not dark side... He is balanced.

ROTJ Vader
Windu wins a saber duel.....

Revan wins a force fight...

Id give Revan a majority....

Lord Stark
Originally posted by Jmanghan
Revan isn't dark side anymore... o-o Psychotic, maybe, but not dark side... He is balanced.

I think he's very grey now, more dark than light though.

S_W_LeGenD
Revan after a decent fight, IMO.

Emperordmb
I'd say Windu, but Revan puts up a fight.

Nephthys
Bump.

Revan wins.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
thumb up

Based
Mace.

NewGuy01
I have no idea how Vaapad would effect someone like Revan, so I'm just going to ignore the mechanic entirely for this fight.

That being said, Mace could probably edge it against Revan.

Stigma
Mace has a slight edge IMHO.

Kalen Sykes
Mace, but barely.

Sinious
Originally posted by Lord Stark
I think he's very grey now, more dark than light though.

Really? He supports the republic though. I think he definitely more light than dark.

carthage
Windu slaughters Revan

FreshestSlice
Revan's definitely more light than dark. He's also more insane, which is the real problem. If he had malicious intent, it would be more dark, but I honestly think he's just crazy and sees no alternative.

Anyway, Revan.

Nephthys
I'm not so convinced. You don't try to commit genocide and stay lightside imo.

Sinious
He was locked away and tortured for 300 years, which caused him to never see his wife and child again. Of course he has some mental issues and wants to exterminate the sith. He probably believed that the sith were gonna do the same thing to the entire galaxy.

King Joker
Mace.

FreshestSlice
Originally posted by Nephthys
I'm not so convinced. You don't try to commit genocide and stay lightside imo.
I don't judge the insane for the actions they make in a fractured state of mind.

Lord Stark
Originally posted by Sinious
He was locked away and tortured for 300 years, which caused him to never see his wife and child again. Of course he has some mental issues and wants to exterminate the sith. He probably believed that the sith were gonna do the same thing to the entire galaxy.


We're not arguing his justification for doing so though. The idea that its better to sacrifice the Sith Empire for the rest of the galaxy is....sound if not a little utilitarian. But his actions still indicate he has some strong DS influence. Although it is strange that he's supported by the Jedi Council. Its possible they intended to use it as a last ditch effort if HoT failed.

Sinious
Originally posted by Lord Stark
We're not arguing his justification for doing so though. The idea that its better to sacrifice the Sith Empire for the rest of the galaxy is....sound if not a little utilitarian. But his actions still indicate he has some strong DS influence. Although it is strange that he's supported by the Jedi Council. Its possible they intended to use it as a last ditch effort if HoT failed.

True, and I don't mean to justify a genocide. He didn't talk like a dark sider in the foundry though. He seemed like Anakin to me but much wiser of course.

Nephthys
Anakin was basically a darksider in all but name. He was force choking prisoners and generally being a violent sociopath even before RotS. Revan was in a very dark place in TOR, at the least on the knife-edge between Jedi and Sith. Very reminiscent of his evil actions in the Mando War before he fully fell.

Sinious
Originally posted by Nephthys
Anakin was basically a darksider in all but name. He was force choking prisoners and generally being a violent sociopath even before RotS. Revan was in a very dark place in TOR, at the least on the knife-edge between Jedi and Sith. Very reminiscent of his evil actions in the Mando War before he fully fell.

While you are right about Revan, I don't fully agree about Anakin. He wasn't a darksider in all at least. There were a lot of times where Anakin showed compassion, mercy and maturity. Especially in TCW series. There was conflict in him and with each movie, the darker side became stronger. He wasnt in darkness from the beginning though.

Dark-Kenshin
Don't remotely agree with this, but found it amusing on comic vine.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111137054/4349878-1.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111137054/4349879-2.jpg

NewGuy01
Polo.

Trocity
Revan.

deathslash
I'll give revan the slight edge.

AncientPower
Mace Windu has a much greater edge in lightsaber skill than Revan has the edge in Force prowess.

deathslash
Originally posted by AncientPower
Mace Windu has a much greater edge in lightsaber skill than Revan has the edge in Force prowess. what makes you say that windu has a huge edge in lightsaber skill?

AncientPower
Because he took on the second greatest lightsaber duelist of all time and defeated him. (yeah yeah circumstances I know)

Beyond that Windu is routinely put on the highest possible level as a lightsaber duelist and by comparison Revan has nowhere near the feats or hype to contend.

Revan takes Force powers but I don't believe it's as solidly as Windu takes lightsaber combat.

deathslash
Originally posted by AncientPower
Because he took on the second greatest lightsaber duelist of all time and defeated him. (yeah yeah circumstances I know)

Beyond that Windu is routinely put on the highest possible level as a lightsaber duelist and by comparison Revan has nowhere near the feats or hype to contend.

Revan takes Force powers but I don't believe it's as solidly as Windu takes lightsaber combat. nowhere near the feats? Are you sure we're talking about the same character here? Off of the top of my head I can recall revan solidly beating malak (one of the greatest duelists of their era), running a train on the hundreds of sith and robots on the star forge (keep in mind how easily these sith slaughtered the jedi strike team that was sent to assist you), defeating a sith apprentice when he only had the training of a soldier, beating one of the toughest bounty hunters in the galaxy (twice), killing terentareks (keep in mind how they killed the previous jedi masters that were sent to kill them), casually defeating sith assassins that were sent for him and bastila shan, relearning the ways of the force in record breaking time, casually murdering a dark counsel member that was stomping on the exile and Lord scourge at the same time, killing Vitiate's bodyguards, having a force duel with an amped Vitiate (who's widely considered to be the second most powerful sith lord in all of SW), and beating an amped malak for a second time without any of the knowledge that he had when he was a sith and outright stated by malak to have grown even more powerful. Yeah, I'll go ahead and say that he does have the feats to contend with windu.

deathslash
.

AncientPower
We are referring to a lightsaber duel, bringing up Force feats to debate saber skill is an exercise in futility. You don't need to block of text me concerning Revan's feats, I know them full well and Windu is simply on another tier. His mastery of lightsaber combat and his completion of Form VII is far beyond what Revan can claim.

Revan:

Malak.
Bastila.
Bandon.

-----------

Mace Windu:

Asajj Ventress.
Darth Maul.
Count Dooku.
Sora Bulq.
Darth Sidious.
Mother Talzin.
General Grievous.

In one vs one duels Windu has a far more impressive tally. Due to game mechanics I'm not sure how much saber skill was involved in Revan's SWTOR battles. That being said, given the sheer amount of Force powers that he spammed I'm getting the idea that Force Power was the primary contest and deciding factor on both occasions.

In lightsaber combat Windu is solidly superior.

Jmanghan
Originally posted by AncientPower
We are referring to a lightsaber duel, bringing up Force feats to debate saber skill is an exercise in futility. You don't need to block of text me concerning Revan's feats, I know them full well and Windu is simply on another tier. His mastery of lightsaber combat and his completion of Form VII is far beyond what Revan can claim.

Revan:

Malak.
Bastila.
Bandon.

-----------

Mace Windu:

Asajj Ventress.
Darth Maul.
Count Dooku.
Sora Bulq.
Darth Sidious.
Mother Talzin.
General Grievous.

In one vs one duels Windu has a far more impressive tally. Due to game mechanics I'm not sure how much saber skill was involved in Revan's SWTOR battles. That being said, given the sheer amount of Force powers that he spammed I'm getting the idea that Force Power was the primary contest and deciding factor on both occasions.

In lightsaber combat Windu is solidly superior.

Mace Windu has never defeated Dooku, he lost to him in a sparring match.

AncientPower
This was a list of fights in general, regardless Mace Windu and Count Dooku have defeated each other numerous times as Jedi in sparring matches. After this Windu faced Dooku yet again but Dooku's Magnaguards interfered, I'm sure there is another occasion as well but I'm forgetting.

deathslash
Originally posted by AncientPower
We are referring to a lightsaber duel, bringing up Force feats to debate saber skill is an exercise in futility. You don't need to block of text me concerning Revan's feats, I know them full well and Windu is simply on another tier. His mastery of lightsaber combat and his completion of Form VII is far beyond what Revan can claim.

Revan:

Malak.
Bastila.
Bandon.

-----------

Mace Windu:

Asajj Ventress.
Darth Maul.
Count Dooku.
Sora Bulq.
Darth Sidious.
Mother Talzin.
General Grievous.

In one vs one duels Windu has a far more impressive tally. Due to game mechanics I'm not sure how much saber skill was involved in Revan's SWTOR battles. That being said, given the sheer amount of Force powers that he spammed I'm getting the idea that Force Power was the primary contest and deciding factor on both occasions.

In lightsaber combat Windu is solidly superior. you only brought up some of revan's duels. He also fought juhani, mandalore the ultimate, satele shan, darth marr, the emperor's wrath, Lana beniko, shae vizla, darth nox, the second emperor's wrath, cipher 9, the champion of the great hunt, the HoT, the Barsenthor, etc.

DarthAnt66
Just ignore her death, s/he has no credibility. S/he claimed Nomi Sunrider ragdolled Krayt Dragons. laughing out loud

Trocity
Windu wins a lightsaber duel, Revan wins a force fight and all out, he is too powerful for Mace.

AncientPower
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Just ignore her death, s/he has no credibility. S/he claimed Nomi Sunrider ragdolled Krayt Dragons. laughing out loud

Stop turning this versus forum into a Jersey Shore episode, for once people here might take anything you say with A modicum of respect. You've already attempted this troglodyte internet shaming thing before.

If you don't stop however I will alert Badabing who already went over this with you and yet you still refuse to stop. An obvious sign of disrespect to the authority of the same moderators you claim to be such close buddies with.

carthage
Revan wins force and all out due to his superiority in the force

Sinious
Originally posted by Trocity
Windu wins a lightsaber duel, Revan wins a force fight and all out, he is too powerful for Mace.

thumb up

NewGuy01
Originally posted by AncientPower
Stop turning this versus forum into a Jersey Shore episode, for once people here might take anything you say with A modicum of respect. You've already attempted this troglodyte internet shaming thing before.

thumb up Tbh laughing

ILS
Originally posted by Trocity
Windu wins a lightsaber duel, Revan wins a force fight and all out, he is too powerful for Mace. Yes.
Originally posted by AncientPower
Stop turning this versus forum into a Jersey Shore episode, for once people here might take anything you say with A modicum of respect. You've already attempted this troglodyte internet shaming thing before. thumb up

Nephthys
Joining in with the upvoting against Ant. thumb up

Selenial
ILS I did not give you permission to use that image.

How dare you summon mother where she has no business.

edit: you removed her. Gewd.

Bane dies.

Sinious
Originally posted by Nephthys
Joining in with the upvoting against Ant. thumb up

thumb up Count me in, though I'm not sure if its legal. laughing out loud

carthage
Originally posted by Selenial


Bane dies.

love

ILS
Sel-

I may or may not have covertly killed Bane in another thread using that image. My apologies.

Selenial
Killing bane though? You're doing gods work, she approves.

DarthAnt66
Originally posted by AncientPower
Stop turning this versus forum into a Jersey Shore episode, for once people here might take anything you say with A modicum of respect. You've already attempted this troglodyte internet shaming thing before.
thumb up

Selenial
Even Ant's joining the Ant hate train.

deathslash
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
thumb up Originally posted by Selenial
Even Ant's joining the Ant hate train. It takes a real man to admit when he's wrong

Revanchiste
Originally posted by Board Walker
This is Revan post of the mmo rpg SWOTOR.

Let us assume that at the end of the fight with the player controlled group, he then used his powers to open up a space/time rift and escaped. He then landed in the time of the clone wars, specifically during the time frame of episode 3. Windu is off to arrest Palpatine, however due to the strange force disturbance generated by Revan's arrival Palpatine leaves his office.

Thus Windu arrives to Palpatine's office alone intending to arrest him, to instead find a time/space displace Revan.

Does Revan with his centuries of battle experience, and force knowledge gained from studying as well as reading the Sith Emperor's mind aid him? Or Does Windu's vaapad give him the victory in this fight to the death.
in KotOR he does, and KotOR 2 that's clear than Revan had became a bad ass again.... But in ToR he seemjust dumb...

carthage
Ant is never ****ing wrong

Revanchiste
Originally posted by carthage
Ant is never ****ing wrong
Sometimes....

Kosmos Supreme
Mace was around RoTS Sidious level with Vapadd

DarthAnt66
Originally posted by carthage
Ant is never ****ing wrong
thumb up

deathslash
Originally posted by Kosmos Supreme
Mace was around RoTS Sidious level with Vapadd your point being? He was insanely amped when he fought sidious and that was the only thing that bridged the massive power gap between them.

TheDarthBoy
REVAN WINS REVAN= GOD OF THE FORCE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Im using Ants unconfirmed CONFIRMATION!!!!!!!
if Evan can do it so Can I!!!! WIndu gets his ASS WHOOPED
big grin big grin big grin big grin big grin big grin

AncientPower
Still yet to see any dueling feats or accolades on Mace Windu tier for Revan. Probably because they don't exist and Revan isn't even as good a duelist as Darth Malak, according to Karpyshyn.

deathslash
Originally posted by AncientPower
Still yet to see any dueling feats or accolades on Mace Windu tier for Revan. Probably because they don't exist and Revan isn't even as good a duelist as Darth Malak, according to Karpyshyn. Karpyshyn doesn't know **** and you still have yet to reply to me posting about revan's duels with swtor characters as well as kotor characters.

AncientPower
The creator of Revan's character doesn't know 'shit'? Okay then, fallacious logic time today I guess. Oh and as I have already stated SWTOR is filled with game mechanics. Only cutscenes within the game itself can be taken into account, in all occasions Revan uses the Force to attack. Both Revan fights are clearly dominated by Force attacks leaving little room for lightsaber abilities to be brought into account.

Drew Karpyshyn, has stated that Darth Malak is likely a better duelist than Revan. Mace Windu, a Jedi Weapons Master & innovator of lightsaber combat is far greater than Darth Malak in dueling ability thus leaving very little room to argue with.

This entire argument has only proved what I already knew was the case. It is not enough to concede that Revan is the superior Force user. Revan must also be widely accepted as an unstoppable duelist amongst the very top of all time.

Provide me with outright dueling feats that compare with Mace Windu's or concede already.

Dark-Kenshin
Originally posted by AncientPower
Drew Karpyshyn, has stated that Darth Malak is likely a better duelist than Revan. Mace Windu, a Jedi Weapons Master & innovator of lightsaber combat is far greater than Darth Malak in dueling ability thus leaving very little room to argue with. Unless you're going by the flawed "X has no feats, therefore Y is better" logic, that's very speculative. There is not enough data to determine who is better.

AncientPower
Arguably one of the top five duelists of all time vs a Sith Lord with a generic great duelist accolade. I know who I pick.

NewGuy01
Arguably one of the top 5 duelists evar, eh? Hmm...

Luke
Yoda
Sidious
Caedus
Mace?

Heh, I suppose you're right, I feel like I'm forgetting someone though.

ILS
Dooku and potentially Anakin.

Nephthys
Hord. Bane. Lord Hoth. I dunno, Plagueis?

deathslash
Originally posted by AncientPower
Drew Karpyshyn, has stated that Darth Malak is likely a better duelist than Revan. Mace Windu, a Jedi Weapons Master & innovator of lightsaber combat is far greater than Darth Malak in dueling ability thus leaving very little room to argue with. You're joking right? How the hell does he make a statement about Malak being a better duelist and think that it makes sense? Revan destroyed Malak in a one on one duel, held his own against Malak in another duel, and then killed Malak in their third duel against each other (when Malak was greatly amped and revan was still at least partially amnesiac). Also, I would think that you would know better than to use ABC logic.

Originally posted by AncientPower
This entire argument has only proved what I already knew was the case. It is not enough to concede that Revan is the superior Force user. Revan must also be widely accepted as an unstoppable duelist amongst the very top of all time. What the hell is wrong with you? I never made any mention of Revan being among the very top of all time but he most certainly is capable of dueling Windu and putting up a very good fight. To say that Windu is far and away better than revan in dueling is only going to make you seem ignorant.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Provide me with outright dueling feats that compare with Mace Windu's or concede already. So him beating Juhani when he was only a padawan isn't impressive? Him slaughtering two Terenteraks at the same time and then only minutes later proceeding to defeat Uthar Wynn and Yuthura Ban isn't impressive? I mean, it's totally not like him slaughtering all of the dark acolytes, sith apprentices, elite sith troopers, and war droids and then proceeding to defeat a twice amped malak is in Windu's level of dueling ability right? Him defeating Calo Nord twice totally isn't impressive. Fighting his way through dozens of sith war droids and troopers on the crumbling Endar Spire isn't a good display of skill. Him defeating Satele Shan isn't impressive? Defeating Mandalor the Ultimate isn't a good feat? I literally spent half a minute looking up revan's dueling feats and I've already come up with this.

Dark-Kenshin
Originally posted by AncientPower
Arguably one of the top five duelists of all time vs a Sith Lord with a generic great duelist accolade. I know who I pick. I'm probably a pariah here when it comes to this, but yeah, this is nothing more than versus forum logic. Don't get me wrong. By versus forum logic, I 100% agree with you I guess, but versus forum logic is not logical.

Stigma
This is silly. Windu is a superior swordsman to Revan. Period.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Mace Windu has a much greater edge in lightsaber skill than Revan has the edge in Force prowess.
thumb up

ILS
Originally posted by Nephthys
Hord. Bane. Lord Hoth. I dunno, Plagueis? ......

carthage
I think the Hoth thing was sarcasm, but then again Neph made the statement Scourge is in the same skill tier as Exar Kun. So who knows.

Nephthys
Originally posted by ILS
......

One of those was a joke.

ILS
Tulak Hord and Plagueis aren't joke-worthy, but I don't think a good case can be made for either in terms of raw dueling skill. Bane and Hoth are what I'd class as joke suggestions, Hoth in particular.

Nephthys
Well both are more powerful than Windu, significantly. I'd disagree on your point about Hord and Plagueis has the ability to punch above his weight class in terms of skill. And I'm fairly sure you're aware on which one I see as the joke suggestion between Bane and Hoth.

carthage
Hord shouldn't be ranked until he gets actual skill feats, but I can understand the desire to want to rank him.

Stigma
Originally posted by Nephthys
One of those was a joke.
I vote Bane. jk

Based
Originally posted by ILS
......

NewGuy01
Originally posted by ILS
Dooku and potentially Anakin.

Annie! I can't believe I forgot him; he should be a contender for that spot as well.

AncientPower
Originally posted by deathslash
You're joking right? How the hell does he make a statement about Malak being a better duelist and think that it makes sense? Revan destroyed Malak in a one on one duel, held his own against Malak in another duel, and then killed Malak in their third duel against each other (when Malak was greatly amped and revan was still at least partially amnesiac). Also, I would think that you would know better than to use ABC logic.
Drew alluded to the fact that the Force was more Revan's priority and not lightsaber ability which is why he states Malak is probably the better duelist.

Originally posted by deathslash
What the hell is wrong with you? I never made any mention of Revan being among the very top of all time but he most certainly is capable of dueling Windu and putting up a very good fight. To say that Windu is far and away better than revan in dueling is only going to make you seem ignorant.

The capability of dueling Windu and giving him a 'very good fight' is in and of itself an implication of top tier dueling skill.

Originally posted by deathslash
So him beating Juhani when he was only a padawan isn't impressive? Him slaughtering two Terenteraks at the same time and then only minutes later proceeding to defeat Uthar Wynn and Yuthura Ban isn't impressive? I mean, it's totally not like him slaughtering all of the dark acolytes, sith apprentices, elite sith troopers, and war droids and then proceeding to defeat a twice amped malak is in Windu's level of dueling ability right? Him defeating Calo Nord twice totally isn't impressive. Fighting his way through dozens of sith war droids and troopers on the crumbling Endar Spire isn't a good display of skill. Him defeating Satele Shan isn't impressive? Defeating Mandalor the Ultimate isn't a good feat? I literally spent half a minute looking up revan's dueling feats and I've already come up with this.

The only one of those victories that directly implicates strong dueling ability is two terentateks and whilst impressive those things are hardly unbeatable as many make them out to be. Windu is more than capable of performing the samething. Mace Windu decapitated the greatest shot in the galaxy Jango Fett. Satele Shan, Malak, Mandalore and Juhani can all be won via Force power not raw lightsaber skill.

Mace Windu again is a very strong contender for the top 5 duelists ever, Revan has nothing implying he even makes top 10.

deathslash
Originally posted by AncientPower
Drew alluded to the fact that the Force was more Revan's priority and not lightsaber ability which is why he states Malak is probably the better duelist.How does he make a statement like that in the face of Revan beating him in an outright duel and cutting off his jaw?



Originally posted by AncientPower
The capability of dueling Windu and giving him a 'very good fight' is in and of itself an implication of top tier dueling skill. Qui Gon Jinn and Darth Maul both have been said to/ have put up a good fight against Windu. I'd say that Revan can do as well as either of them could.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Mace Windu decapitated the greatest shot in the galaxy Jango Fett. Yeah, it's totally not like there's context behind Mace's win over Jango.roll eyes (sarcastic) The guy got trampled by a Reek, his jetpack was broken, and one of his guns had been knocked away. He likely also had a few broken bones and at the very least was probably dazed from getting hit by the Star Wars equivalent of a rhino. Meanwhile, Revan beat Calo Nord and an entire gang of mercenaries at the same time.Originally posted by AncientPower
Satele Shan, Malak, Mandalore and Juhani can all be won via Force power not raw lightsaber skill. Pretty certain that I remember seeing a cut scene of revan dueling Satele. Ok, since Gnost Dural shows information of Revan's duel with Mandalore and it involves Revan charging the Ultimate with his lightsaber ignited, I think that Revan beat him using dueling abilities.Which one seems more likely, that Revan killed Malak and Mandalore the Ultimate using force pushes and tk or that he killed both of them using a lightsaber. Go ahead and take your time to figure out the correct answer to that. Please stop acting as if game mechanics are the only things that matter. What matters are the end results and the end result is that Revan beat one of the best duelists of that era in a one on one fight and since Malak probably wasn't dumb or inexperienced enough (seriously, he was a master of force drain, stasis, and telekenesis) to let a "neophyte padawan" kill him with tk, I'll go ahead and say that he beat him in a duel. I'm also not sure how you think that Revan fighting through countless sith on a darkside nexis for over and hour and then defeating the twice amped lord of the sith in a duel isn't impressive.

AncientPower
Originally posted by deathslash

perhaps you should ask him that, I am merely quoting him.


Originally posted by deathslash Qui Gon Jinn and Darth Maul both have been said to/ have put up a good fight against Windu. I'd say that Revan can do as well as either of them could.

Qui Gon Jinn has never been stated to do so in canon, what you are quoting is an incorrect Wookieepedia statement which has since been researched and debunked. Darth Maul is himself one of the greatest and most highly skilled Sith Warriors ever, a greater duelist than Revan by feats, so briefly holding Windu off is not exactly a surprising feat.

Originally posted by deathslash Yeah, it's totally not like there's context behind Mace's win over Jango.roll eyes (sarcastic) The guy got trampled by a Reek, his jetpack was broken, and one of his guns had been knocked away. He likely also had a few broken bones and at the very least was probably dazed from getting hit by the Star Wars equivalent of a rhino. Meanwhile, Revan beat Calo Nord and an entire gang of mercenaries at the same time. Pretty certain that I remember seeing a cut scene of revan dueling Satele. Ok, since Gnost Dural shows information of Revan's duel with Mandalore and it involves Revan charging the Ultimate with his lightsaber ignited, I think that Revan beat him using dueling abilities.Which one seems more likely, that Revan killed Malak and Mandalore the Ultimate using force pushes and tk or that he killed both of them using a lightsaber. Go ahead and take your time to figure out the correct answer to that. Please stop acting as if game mechanics are the only things that matter. What matters are the end results and the end result is that Revan beat one of the best duelists of that era in a one on one fight and since Malak probably wasn't dumb or inexperienced enough (seriously, he was a master of force drain, stasis, and telekenesis) to let a "neophyte padawan" kill him with tk, I'll go ahead and say that he beat him in a duel. I'm also not sure how you think that Revan fighting through countless sith on a darkside nexis for over and hour and then defeating the twice amped lord of the sith in a duel isn't impressive.

Both the Attack of the Clones novelisation and Star Wars Shatterpoint state that Windu would have won undoubtedly against Jango regardless of circumstance.

That is from the trailer for Shadow of Revan, the actual in-game cutscenes of the battle depict him attacking with the Force every time. Even the opening depicts him unleashing a Force wave on the unified strike team.

The timeline also depicts Bastila Shan attacking Malak alongside Revan, which is contradictory to the game, in which she uses Battle Meditation to aid the Republic fleet whilst Revan defeats Darth Malak. There are a large number of other discrepancies in the timeline series. What I find likely is irrelevant the important thing is that Drew Karpyshyn, A chief authority on Revan, has stated that Revan uses the Force primarily in combat. This insinuates that his victories in combat are won via his extreme Force prowess.

The above is consistent with his canonical depictions in combat, against Nyriss he uses Tutaminis to rather impressively destroy her with her own dark side energy attack. Against the Sith Emperor he uses the Force to attack and defend. Against the Imperial Guard beforehand he is depicted attempting to use a Force Push to quickly dispatch the lone Guard between himself and the Emperor. When the Emperor's amplification of his Guardsmen causes Revan's attack to fail then he switches to his lightsaber. In every canonical depiction of his fights he wields the Force primarily.

Mace Windu is his polar opposite, he perfected lightsaber combat and in-fact honed himself into_A_living weapon through which the Light Side of the Force can deal justice. He completed Form VII Juyo and created Vaapad to answer hisweakness which is emotion, allowing his inner darkness to be harnessed for good. Everything about Windu revolves around his exemplary capabilities in combat, exemplified by his status as Jedi Weapons Master.

Revan does outstrip Mace in command of the Force by a considerable margin but that margin is not as wide as the margin between Revan and Windu's abilities with the blade.

S_W_LeGenD
Revan, in a good fight.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Revan. Good fight, though.
thumb up

deathslash
Originally posted by AncientPower

The above is consistent with his canonical depictions in combat, against Nyriss he uses Tutaminis to rather impressively destroy her with her own dark side energy attack. Against the Sith Emperor he uses the Force to attack and defend. Against the Imperial Guard beforehand he is depicted attempting to use a Force Push to quickly dispatch the lone Guard between himself and the Emperor. When the Emperor's amplification of his Guardsmen causes Revan's attack to fail then he switches to his lightsaber. In every canonical depiction of his fights he wields the Force primarily. See, now this is where we have a problem. Those are the feats of an entirely different Revan. Those are Revan Redeamed feats, not Mandolorian Wars or Jedi Civil War Revan. If I recall correctly, In both of those wars, Revan was depicted as a cunning tactitian that eclipsed Malak's skill with a saber and was by far Malak's superior with the force. Also, Revan has canonical been depicted using a blue crystal (the crystal color of the Jedi Guardian) during the Jedi Civil War. I also noticed that two of the three force using feats that you brought up were used more out of necessity than preference. With Nyriss, rather than use his lightsaber and ty to slowly inch forward against the hail of her lightning (lightning that put down the exile and scourge at the same time), he elected to end the battle quickly with tutamanis. Against the emperor, what was he supposed to do? Revan used the force out of necessity because he needed to defend against Vitiates's lightning. The book also outright stated that Revan was tying to get close enough to use his lightsaber. In that very same book, when Revan killed the Mandalorians that were trying to kill him and Canderous, he used his lightsaber rather than the force.



Originally posted by AncientPower
Revan does outstrip Mace in command of the Force by a considerable margin but that margin is not as wide as the margin between Revan and Windu's abilities with the blade. Eh, we both see this fight going down differently. I believe that Revan can edge out the majority because of his skill with a lightsaber (seriously, he's depicted as using Jar Kai, Ataru, Soresu, and it's been stated that he can use Niman), his ability to predict the future, and the heavy advantage that he has with the force.

Board Walker
With all the DLC content out, going to bump this

Trocity
Windu takes sabers, Revan takes Force and all out.

SunRazer
Mace is more skilled, Revan is better in everything else.

Revanchiste
Revan show mass scale TK with Alter envirnoment, he proove that force storm is not just an upper version of lightning, against the Rakattas he use alter environement while controlling wind fire earth and lightning from the sky. Not only the last feat is impressive, but he shwo that Revan is able to make perform sub-molecular transformation on mass scale, at 10km above his head.

+Revan is like Bane with more combat experience in browling or dueling...
Able to apply the technic at the perfection, and have ore knowledge than Master Yoda himself..

Even in lmight saber Revan copete with Mace..... in term of speed, preco,
+windu is as powerfull as his adversing rage, Revan have perfect control over his surface though and emotion, and is able to use them in combat against force user, and possess more force power.....
Sidious could have blitz Mace he wanted.....

Stigma
Mace trashes him in sabers, but Revan takes the Force fight.

SunRazer
I doubt Mace "trashes" him in sabers only, but he'd win in a good fight.

DarthAnt66
Revan has better combat feats if we are ignoring his fight with Sidious.

SunRazer
Sabers only, not overall combat.

DarthAnt66
Well I'm talking about overall combat. We don't know Revan's pure saber skill enough to gauge perfectly - though his overall combat skills are obviously exceptional.

Stigma
Mace is a peer of Dooku, though. The bar is extremely high.

But I concur that Revan takes the Force and the all-out. He's too powerful for Mace.

DarthAnt66
I feel Revan beat the bar with his countless massacres of basically every major race and faction in the KotOR galaxy. wink

SunRazer
Mace being Dooku's peer in sheer saber skill makes it very hard to make a convincing argument for Revan winning in sheer sabers.

Obviously Revan for the others, though. He's better (either by fair or vast margins) in everything minus strength, speed and skill.

DarthAnt66
That comes from the fact Revan uses his Force in combat, yeah. But like, his Star Forge feat would have probably been mostly sabers given the circumstances and the nexus. Same for Korriban.

SunRazer
We're speculating at this point, even if it's reasonable.

DarthAnt66
Oh, we aren't allowed to speculate anymore? erm

NewGuy01
I'd say that, while quantity feats are certainly valid, quality feats are much easier to fairly and accurately judge.

So what incarnation of Revan is this? KOTOR, Novel, Foundry, Yavin?

DarthAnt66
Originally posted by Board Walker
This is Revan post of the mmo rpg SWOTOR.
Based on OP, it would be Spirit Revan in the flesh?

Spirit Revan should be clocking around Yoda level, tbh.

NewGuy01
Post-Foundry Revan according to the OP... So pretty much Yavin Revan. Which means Vaapad is going to be an ever present factor to consider.

DarthAnt66
Wouldn't be enough. Remember that yavin!Revan was still capable of doing his Force in Balance attacks.

NewGuy01
Vaapad draws on the negative emotions of the opponent, of which SOR Revan has plenty, and that is enough.

DarthAnt66
And Revan is renowned specifically for shielding his emotions in combat to such a degree his opponents connection to the Force are severed. thumb up

Hero of Python
Originally posted by Stigma
Mace is a peer of Dooku, though. The bar is extremely high.

But I concur that Revan takes the Force and the all-out. He's too powerful for Mace.

Agreed. It would be a fantastic fight, but Revan is in that tier between Mace/Dooku and Yoda/Sidious. His victory would never be in doubt imo, especially if he's able to suppress vaapad.

Nephthys
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
And Revan is renowned specifically for shielding his emotions in combat to such a degree his opponents connection to the Force are severed. thumb up

Lmao.

DarthAnt66
"Make him doubt himself, his beliefs, or his intentions. Such things disrupt connections to the Force - and death soon follows. Generally, this was done by broadcasting strong emotions while thinking about something else. It was a curious technique, but it seemed to be effective in blinding Jedi. Whether guilt, lust, fear - they act as mental interference, making finding the true intentions of the broadcasting meatbag difficult."
―HK-47 (Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic 2: The Sith Lords)

fite me irl mate

SunRazer
That's because doubt and non-anger emotions can conflict with one's ability to call upon the Force.

Board Walker
Bump

nfactor1995
SoR Revan wins this in an amazing fight. Amped Mace (in the state he was in against Sidious) would win though.

Azronger
Windu wins

Beniboybling
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
And Revan is renowned specifically for shielding his emotions in combat to such a degree his opponents connection to the Force are severed. thumb up Originally posted by DarthAnt66
"Make him doubt himself, his beliefs, or his intentions. Such things disrupt connections to the Force - and death soon follows. Generally, this was done by broadcasting strong emotions while thinking about something else. It was a curious technique, but it seemed to be effective in blinding Jedi. Whether guilt, lust, fear - they act as mental interference, making finding the true intentions of the broadcasting meatbag difficult."
―HK-47 (Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic 2: The Sith Lords)

fite me irl mate laughing out loud

what a moron. sad

carthage
Mace wins

MythLord
Windu, yeah.

deathslash
Mace takes sabers

Revan takes force

Revan takes an all out fight

Azronger
Originally posted by Beniboybling
laughing out loud

what a moron. sad

Lmao

Rockydonovang
Originally posted by nfactor1995
SoR Revan wins this in an amazing fight. Amped Mace (in the state he was in against Sidious) would win though.
Mace's inferior in Kenobi can wreck a formation of 500 m megaliths, but do tell what revan's done to indicate he wouldn't get lol-stomped.

Are you just going to resort to more ad hominems?

slayne
Foundry Revan has a similar showing with the forty asteroids he pulled down on the strike team. For another, superior, feat, we can look at Revan's ragdolling of the likes of mountain-busting Satele and the Rakatan-wall busting Barsen'thor while hindered.

The megalith feat is good, but Revan's consistently demonstrated better.

Being better in every other conceivable area besides sabers?

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Originally posted by deathslash
Mace takes sabers

Revan takes force

Revan takes an all out fight

carthage
-

MythLord
Originally posted by slayne
mountain-busting Satele

Wut?

Deronn_solo
Revan, lmao.

NewGuy01
I don't think Slayne knows what a mountain is, tbh.

slayne
Nvm, rewatched the trailer. Was only a part of a cliff face, though it's still a great feat nonetheless thumb up

Azronger
It's absolutely garbage compared to Kenobi's, lmao. As is 'Thor's.

slayne
Originally posted by Azronger
It's absolutely garbage compared to Kenobi's, lmao. As is 'Thor's.
What are you on, lmfao? Satele's showing isn't 'garbage' next to Kenobi's, and 'Thor's feat is plenty comparable.

But that isn't the point, anyway. Foundry Revan alone has a comparable, if not superior showing with the asteroids and the fact that SoR was outright ragdolling beings capable of such feats solidifies his vast telekinetic superiority to Kenobi. thumb up

Rockydonovang
Originally posted by slayne
What are you on, lmfao? Satele's showing isn't 'garbage' next to Kenobi's, and 'Thor's feat is plenty comparable.

But that isn't the point, anyway. Foundry Revan alone has a comparable, if not superior showing with the asteroids and the fact that SoR was outright ragdolling beings capable of such feats solidifies his vast telekinetic superiority to Kenobi. thumb up
Revan didn't bring down 40,steroids, the gravity machine did

slayne
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Revan didn't bring down 40,steroids, the gravity machine did
What 'gravity machine'? It was pretty clearly Revan that brought them down

Rockydonovang
---The Old Republic Codex

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Wait, does Rocky think that Revan used the tractor beams to lob the asteroids at the protags...

NewGuy01
erm

Yeah, anyone who's ever actually played the level would know that that's clearly not the case. Not that boss mechanics should be treated as valid demonstrations of a character's abilities in the first place.

carthage
Remove Game mechanics and ambiguous quotes and Revan is ridiculously hard to scale

Going with Mace here

slayne
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Wait, does Rocky think that Revan used the tractor beams to lob the asteroids at the protags...
Yes.

@NewGuy:


Why shouldn't they be? I mean, it's a scripted event, and IIRC Chee said those were canon.

nfactor1995
Originally posted by slayne
Yes.

@NewGuy:


Why shouldn't they be? I mean, it's a scripted event, and IIRC Chee said those were canon.

The way I look at it, if the game mechanic is something that is scripted and occurs EVERY time people run the boss fight (i.e. Malgus force choking 3 of the 4 protags, Revan pulling down asteroids, Serevin teleporting, Revan rag-dolling the SoR strike team etc.), then they are accurately representative of their power levels.

NewGuy01
Why shouldn't they be? That's obvious. Unlike story cutscenes and codex entries, the priority of gameplay mechanics isn't to accurately represent the lore, nor should it be. Really, if you're going to claim that SWTOR's characters can do this or that based on their boss mechanics, you might as well also make the case that they can all survive hundreds of lightsaber strikes to the gut and keep fighting. I mean, that's how all of the boss fights are depicted in-game, so why would we assume that's not a canonical representation of events, right?

DarthAnt66
Revan, but good fight.

Rockydonovang
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Wait, does Rocky think that Revan used the tractor beams to lob the asteroids at the protags...
no he didn't, but he wasn't the one pulling those massive asteroids we see in the background. All he did is take 5 chunks of rock and slam them into the ground 1 by 1, that's not remotely as impressive as say Kenobi's megalith showing

DarthAnt66
I'm not understanding you.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Yeah, Rocky, that's not what happens at all. Actually watch the fight. thumb up

Revan casually pulled down 30-40 asteroids in a hilariously weakened state while fighting the protags.

Rockydonovang
Right, overall he's throwing down more than 5 rocks, but he isn't doing this at the same time. He's holding up 5 rocks simultaenously and individually throws one down at a time. Those other asteroids coming down in the background have nothing to do with Revan.


I incorrectly assumed that when people were mentioning 40 asteroids, they were talking about the asteroids in the background which had nothing to do with Revan which is a misconception I've seen going around on CV

Regardless, trying to pass the asteroid feat as or comparable to Kenobi simultaneously cracking, holding and then wrecking multiple 500 meter meglaiths as slayne is suggesting is beyond laughable. Let alone using it to try and say revan is more powerful than Windu.

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