Originally posted by AuraAngel
So once again Naruto was not forced to exert himself in any meaningful way.
Case in point: Kisame fought off Team Guy. Aside from Chiyo and Sakura breaking Naruto out of his genjutsu, Kakashi and Naruto literally beat him by themselves.
Ah, makes sense that Naruto using one of his strongest forms at the time and his strongest jutsu wasn't "exerting himself".
Chiyo and Sakura were both sweating when they broke him out of the genjutsu. As you point out though, Itachi didn't even want to defeat them, only slow them down.
Originally posted by AuraAngel
Then explain how chakra drained characters like Sasuke and Pain can still keep up with others despite being fatigued? Sasuke against Kakashi and Pain against Sage Mode Naruto.
But the kicker is this line of argument will get you nowhere. When Kakashi beat Obito in taijutsu Obito had been fighting for hours without the luxury of an ally giving him chakra. Obito would be so low on chakra it would be pathetic and it was given the only technique he mustered was a simple fire ball. (Obito bs that also applied to Kakashi).
Hint: "Hax abilities.". Susano'o was one of them at that point. Just like Pain's paths were.
Obito had been fighting for less time than Kakashi. Obito only started fighting when Naruto did, and Naruto showed up after Kakashi and Sakura had already been fighting the seven swordsmen. Kakashi got his chakra tripled for a moment to use a super powered kamui, he didn't get it replenished.
Obito wasn't "fighting off" shit. He was using his intangibility and his paths to keep away from the fight, which is why he pretty much didn't even get involved until the edo tensei wore off.
Originally posted by AuraAngel
Other than the fact that both a) he said he got stronger, b) his stats improve in the databook, c) he tricked Itachi, and d) he went from being toyed with an Akatsuki to fighting them evenly. And chakra capacity? Pfft. He went from a week of rest after two kamui's to spamming it constantly. Suffice it to say that that has certainly improved.
a) He said that he had learned a few new tricks, not improved overall physically or chakra-wise, proven by him still only being able to use lightning blade about five or six times a day. b) So did Jiraya's, but he did absolutely no training in those years. The data book raises characters stats based on feats that are revealed or new attacks they use. c) he tricked a 30% nearly blind Itachi. d) Kakashi was never "toyed with" by Akatsuki. He was afraid of them. Pfft. In one fight, Sasuke went from being able to use Amaterasu once or twice to being able to spam it along with Susano'o and new Susano'o jutsu. Does that mean his chakra capacity increase? No, he simply got better at using his Mangekyo, just like Kakashi did.
Originally posted by AuraAngel
Neat. None of the people Itachi fought had this so I guess it balances out. And no, that doesn't mean Itachi could figure it out. Itachi failing to kill Obito with Sasuke's Amaterasu means he clearly didn't figure out Tobi's technique. Also the finger genjutsu? Please. The sharingan would see through that. And if you have the audacity to say Obito couldn't see through it because he's never broken genjutsu then the same applies to Hashirama, Madara, and the Sage himself.
Neat. None of the people Obito fought had this, so I guess it doesn't balance out. To the best of our knowledge, Obito and Itachi have never fought. Itachi was only guessing at how Obito's intangibility worked. In a real battle, he would have been able to figure it out better and analyze it. Itachi is a master at exploiting his opponents weaknesses, to the point where he could dominate someone that solo'd Naruto and Killer Bee at once without help from others.
Madara has been seen using EMS genjutsu before on Raikage. It's safe to say that, since Hashirama could fight Madara and beat him, as well as break free of Edo tensei(a refined genjutsu as stated by Kabuto) with raw power alone, that he could break free of most, if not all base Genjutsu's that aren't part of a MS. If Hashirama could do that, the sage could in his sleep.
Originally posted by AuraAngel
Learn to read. Obito is the one who says I was faster than you. If you don't believe me then watch the animated adaption where it is clearly him speaking.
Ah, my bad. I thought it was Konan saying that. Either way, he still wasn't able to avoid being tagged by her, meaning that he wasn't that much faster than her.
Originally posted by AuraAngel
I'd love to see Itachi catch Guy in a genjutsu since Guy states he only looks at Sharingan users' feet. And the implication that the man who is rocking Juubidara's shit would lose to Itachi denotes a case of fanboyishness that is truly beyond all reason.
http://i10.mangapanda.com/naruto/259/naruto-5038.jpg
lol, even a 30% clone of Itachi was able to tag someone with genjutsu without looking at their eyes. The real Itachi could easily do the same, if not more, to Gai, someone who has no demonstrable defense against genjutsu.
I was saying that Itachi, or really any genjutsu user, could possibly stop Guy, simply because he's still solely dependent on taijutsu.
Originally posted by AuraAngel
And yet Killerbee broke out of it handily and Kabuto showed that you can fighting genjutsu by, gasp, not looking at his eyes.
Killer Bee is a Jinchuirki. Obito is not. Kabuto proved, like everyone else before him that has fought Itachi, that you can avoid Tsukiyomi by not looking at Itachi's eyes. However, without being an experienced, fully realized jinchuriki, another Uchiha, or someone who has demonstrably overcome Itachi level genjutsu without help from other people, Obito has NO defense against even Itachi's base genjutsu.
Originally posted by AuraAngel
Madara would crush Itachi and you really are delusional to think such an outcome is possible. And Hashirama? Jesus that beat down would be hilarious to watch.
Exactly like I said, Madara would beat Itachi. Just like Hashirama could. Thank you for repeating what I said.
Originally posted by AuraAngel
Except not allow Itachi to use genjutsu on him by avoiding direct contact. Which is easy if he lets the Mazo do the work for him.
Interesting theory. It would probably work if Itachi couldn't instantly seal the Mazo with a single stab, and finish Obito off even quicker with base genjutsu. It would also probably get the job done... If Itachi only had one genjutsu.
Originally posted by AuraAngel
You mean the fire jutsu that has more offensive power than anything Itachi has dished out? Or the fire jutsu that has more defensive power than anything Itachi has dished out?
No, I meant the fire jutsu that pails in comparison to Amaterasu.
Originally posted by AuraAngel
Fu blinds Itachi. The rest hurl mountain busters at him that his Susano'o has no demonstrable defense against. And go ahead with the, false, argument that Itachi's Susano'o has taken 3 mountain busting attacks at once. I need some hilarity.
As I recall, Fuu's blinding capacity was limited to unblocked human eyes. Killer Bee was unaffected by it because he had shades on. Itachi is already nearly blind. Not to mention, the thread maker specified Obito, not the edo tensei paths, that are no part of his own ability, and he wouldn't have without Kabuto.
False? lol, last time I checked, when something happened on-panel, it's not considered false. Itachi sheltered Naruto and Killer Bee behind his yata mirror from the explosion of (basically)three biju bombs.
Originally posted by AuraAngel
And yet one lived to see Sasuke turn evil while Itachi failed to stop the guy in charge of the villains.
He didn't think he deserved to atone for his sins, which is why he let Sasuke kill him.
What you're saying is that Obito could beat Minato and Madara because he lived longer than them.
Originally posted by AuraAngel
Itachi has no Kamui to allow such contiguous tagging.
But he has Amaterasu to allow continuous intangibility before Obito becomes tangible to port away before Itachi instantly seals him for eternity. Or he could just, you know, tag him with base genjutsu and simply use Susano'o to bisect/seal him.
Originally posted by AuraAngel
http://www.mangapanda.com/naruto/666/8
Yeah clearly Obito needed Kakashi's help to react to those attacks. Also for Juubito he is sure lacking in Juubi. Almost as though he was back to normal or something.
LOL, so Obito can use the black staffs and chakra orbs in his normal form now? As far as I recall, that's an ability specific to the Jyuubi's jinchuriki. If that's not so, then why didn't Obito use the jutsu negating stuff against Naruto and Kakashi when they were tagging him with Kamui? Hm, seems like the only logical explanation would be that he still had some of the Jyuubi chakra, or simply kept those abilities after it was extracted. Unless you have some scans of him using the sage abilities before he became a jinchuriki... which you don't.
Either way, Obito has no demonstrable defense against Itachi's base genjutsu and Susano'o combo. Prove that he does, if you truly think he does.