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What is final-form full power Krillin?

Yeah, what's final form full power krillin?

I was under the impression that Buu saga krillin WAS final form full power krillin, lol.

krillin is actually weaker in the buu saga than he was in the cell saga because he stopped training. due to being totally inferior to other z warriors

Krillin wins

Originally posted by juggerman
Krillin wins
Nah man.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Nah man.

Fight me irl

Originally posted by chasedown
krillin is actually weaker in the buu saga than he was in the cell saga because he stopped training. due to being totally inferior to other z warriors

Uh, Krillin never stopped training. At least it never said that he did.

Unless you're talking about GT, in which case...

Fight me irl.

I meant to put "Final Form Full-Power Frieza"...

...


...I am lmao'd so hard...

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Uh, Krillin never stopped training. At least it never said that he did.

Unless you're talking about GT, in which case...

Fight me irl.

He did stop fighting. He wanted to be a family man after Marron was born. But... That doesn't change the fact that we don't know when he stopped training. But think about this... Krillin was stated by Toriyama himself to be more powerful then Tien in the Buu saga, who as far as we know, was constantly training, and able to use a powerful attack on (Either Super Buu or Kid Buu, I can't remember which.) which surprised even Gohan.

Then he'd still lose to Frieza.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Then he'd still lose to Frieza. It's safe to assume that GT Krillin is not as strong as Buu Saga Krillin, as he's a human. End of GT Krillin beat Goku in a sparring match (though Goku was in Base Form and probably holding back), and also, it's worth noting that in the second DBZ movie, Tien was on Par with Base Trunks, and again, after this, Krillin in the Buu Saga was stated as being Stronger then Tien, by Akira Toriyama himself. On top of that, as I said before, we still have NO idea how long Krillin did train before Marron was born. He could've trained a full four years and then stopped when Marron was born.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
I meant to put "Final Form Full-Power Frieza"

Well in that case... Frieza kills him just like he did on Namek.

Look at it this way: Battle of the Gods is canon and in it Goku before transforming is only at 80% of Frieza's full power. There is no way Krillin is as strong as Goku before he goes SSJ.

Originally posted by juggerman
Well in that case... Frieza kills him just like he did on Namek.

Look at it this way: Battle of the Gods is canon and in it Goku before transforming is only at 80% of Frieza's full power. There is no way Krillin is as strong as Goku before he goes SSJ.

Then Akira Toriyama messed up the series, because it was STRONGLY believed before that, that base Goku was stronger then Full-Power Frieza.

Look how Pikkon took apart Cell, PERFECT Cell, and then Goku is on Par with him, and stronger then him in Super Saiyan Form. 1st Form Cell is above Frieza, Android 17, and 18, are above Frieza, every enemy past Frieza is stronger then him at Full Power. Also... "Frieza... Huh? In hindsight, not much of a foe... Perfect for the kids." Goku's words when Trunks and Goten were fighting Abo Cado. All evidence except for Battle of Gods, proves that Goku should be far ahead of Frieza in base form, even when he comes back from Yardrat, which is directly after he defeats Frieza, he proves that he could stomp Trunks' Super Saiyan Form anytime he wanted, and Trunks previously stomped Frieza AND King Cold in Super Saiyan Form. (Though there is evidence against my argument. For example, Final Form Cooler beat Goku senseless, even in 20x Kaioken, and that was Yardrat Goku, but when he went Super Saiyan, he viciously beat Cooler.)

Originally posted by Jmanghan
He did stop fighting. He wanted to be a family man after Marron was born. But... That doesn't change the fact that we don't know when he stopped training. But think about this... Krillin was stated by Toriyama himself to be more powerful then Tien in the Buu saga, who as far as we know, was constantly training, and able to use a powerful attack on (Either Super Buu or Kid Buu, I can't remember which.) which surprised even Gohan.

That was NEVER stated. Krillin stopped training for an unknown period, but resumed training when he heard about the tournament, which means he trained for at least six whole months, which could be argued to put him back in his peak AT LEAST.

Tien was ALWAYS stronger than Krillin. Even during the Cell saga. This could be simply because Tri beam is far superior to Kamehameha in terms of potency, but either way, he was able to damage second form Cell, someone who Krillin couldn't even damage in his first form. In fact, Krillin was no match for even the androids, who's power level stays the same or lowers over time. Krillin was still weaker than 18 in the Buu saga, meaning that he was arguably at the same level as he was in the Cell saga. Tien is leagues above both of them, including 18.

Originally posted by juggerman
Well in that case... Frieza kills him just like he did on Namek.

Look at it this way: Battle of the Gods is canon and in it Goku before transforming is only at 80% of Frieza's full power. There is no way Krillin is as strong as Goku before he goes SSJ.

That's not true.

Bills stated "As you are now, I don't think you could beat Frieza. It seems you can power up though, and even transform into a Super Saiyan."

Goku was in base form and not exerting any ki when Bills made this statement. He was not charging his ki, exerting any, or producing an aura even.

The statement implies that he knew Goku was stronger than the ki he felt from him AND could still go Super Saiyan after that.

Krillin was able to at least compete with the Cell jr.'s on the same level that Piccolo was. While Yamcha was getting shit-stomped, Krillin, Piccolo and Tien were all at least holding their grounds for a few moments. Going by power scaling, Krillin was much stronger at this point then he was on Namek. On Namek, Krillin was actually able to land Kienzan on Second form Frieza. It only cut his tail off, but in the Cell saga, he should have been able to compete with around first form Cell, meaning he was able to at least compete with Super Saiyan Goku when he first came back to Earth. The same one who was stronger than Trunks, who shat on a stronger version of Frieza.

This can be chocked up as PIS, however I still think Krillin should be around the level of Frieza in his final form. However, I still think that Krillin would win just because of his Taiyoken/Kienzan combo.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Then Akira Toriyama messed up the series, because it was STRONGLY believed before that, that base Goku was stronger then Full-Power Frieza.

Look how Pikkon took apart Cell, PERFECT Cell, and then Goku is on Par with him, and stronger then him in Super Saiyan Form. 1st Form Cell is above Frieza, Android 17, and 18, are above Frieza, every enemy past Frieza is stronger then him at Full Power. Also... "Frieza... Huh? In hindsight, not much of a foe... Perfect for the kids." Goku's words when Trunks and Goten were fighting Abo Cado. All evidence except for Battle of Gods, proves that Goku should be far ahead of Frieza in base form, even when he comes back from Yardrat, which is directly after he defeats Frieza, he proves that he could stomp Trunks' Super Saiyan Form anytime he wanted, and Trunks previously stomped Frieza AND King Cold in Super Saiyan Form. (Though there is evidence against my argument. For example, Final Form Cooler beat Goku senseless, even in 20x Kaioken, and that was Yardrat Goku, but when he went Super Saiyan, he viciously beat Cooler.)

Pikkon was filler and not canon. That whole thing was not canon so we cannot apply it here

Also I don't think the movie with Tarble was canon either. The only movie that is considered canon by the creator himself is BotG

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
That's not true.

Bills stated "As you are now, I don't think you could beat Frieza. It seems you can power up though, and even transform into a Super Saiyan."

Goku was in base form and not exerting any ki when Bills made this statement. He was not charging his ki, exerting any, or producing an aura even.

The statement implies that he knew Goku was stronger than the ki he felt from him AND could still go Super Saiyan after that.

Krillin was able to at least compete with the Cell jr.'s on the same level that Piccolo was. While Yamcha was getting shit-stomped, Krillin, Piccolo and Tien were all at least holding their grounds for a few moments. Going by power scaling, Krillin was much stronger at this point then he was on Namek. On Namek, Krillin was actually able to land Kienzan on Second form Frieza. It only cut his tail off, but in the Cell saga, he should have been able to compete with around first form Cell, meaning he was able to at least compete with Super Saiyan Goku when he first came back to Earth. The same one who was stronger than Trunks, who shat on a stronger version of Frieza.

This can be chocked up as PIS, however I still think Krillin should be around the level of Frieza in his final form. However, I still think that Krillin would win just because of his Taiyoken/Kienzan combo.

Because he could power up does not mean he could surpass Frieza in power without transforming. I thought there was something stated about him not being as storng as Frieza until he transformed but I could be wrong about this

The Cell Jrs were toying with them. They were giggling and joking around iirc so him holding up for a bit doesn't mean he was strong.

There is no reason at all to believe he could compete with any SSJ or first form Cell. That's just silly

He was nowhere near Frieza's level. If he could pull of that combo then he has a shot but 99 times out of 100 he dies a horrible death

Originally posted by juggerman
Pikkon was filler and not canon. That whole thing was not canon so we cannot apply it here

Also I don't think the movie with Tarble was canon either. The only movie that is considered canon by the creator himself is BotG

You're right about Pikkon.

However, the DBZ movies were all cannon, just not timeline cannon. Other than the return of cooler movie and bio broly, that is. The rest of them were created by Akira Toriyama, and had a large part in the story as what-if scenario's, that pretty much just introduced new characters and stories.

They were still cannon, power level-wise. Not the filler, just to be clear. The movies. And they were only cannon to the anime anyways.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
You're right about Pikkon.

However, the DBZ movies were all cannon, just not timeline cannon. Other than the return of cooler movie and bio broly, that is. The rest of them were created by Akira Toriyama, and had a large part in the story as what-if scenario's, that pretty much just introduced new characters and stories.

They were still cannon, power level-wise. Not the filler, just to be clear. The movies. And they were only cannon to the anime anyways.

That's the first I'm hearing about movies being canon.

Well yeah the filler was canon to the anime but normally we go by manga canon right? That's what I figured this was based on mostly.

If the movies are considered canon on this then Krillin took a blast from Broly in The Second Coming and was only KO'd. Frieza is no Broly

Then Videl must be stronger than Frieza too considering what she did against Broly and lived. dur

Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
Then Videl must be stronger than Frieza too considering what she did against Broly and lived. dur

lol, that's true. Chockable as PIS, but it still happened. He said that he wouldn't kill Videl because she was a girl, but it definitely had to be PIS the way that Broly destroyed multiple cities and mountain ranges with a yell, and Videl still kept up with him.

Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
Then Videl must be stronger than Frieza too considering what she did against Broly and lived. dur

Broly never blasted her so no

Originally posted by juggerman
Broly never blasted her so no
Broly's generally more of a melee type fighter than one who ki blasts a lot, and she still survived some punches/hits from the super saiyan, so Videl clearly > Frieza.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
lol, that's true. Chockable as PIS, but it still happened. He said that he wouldn't kill Videl because she was a girl, but it definitely had to be PIS the way that Broly destroyed multiple cities and mountain ranges with a yell, and Videl still kept up with him.
In all seriousness though, yeah. It was... Not that PIS stops people from constantly bringing up the moment of Vegeta making Bills bleed, etc.

Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
Broly's generally more of a melee type fighter than one who ki blasts a lot, and she still survived some punches/hits from the super saiyan, so Videl clearly > Frieza. .

Absolutely none of Broly's melee hits caused as much damage as his blasts. So again you are wrong but nice try

Also Broly threw Videl twice. Not once did she actually take a real hit or do anything in that fight.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Uh, Krillin never stopped training. At least it never said that he did.
.

lol yes he did.

Originally posted by juggerman
Absolutely none of Broly's melee hits caused as much damage as his blasts. So again you are wrong but nice try

Also Broly threw Videl twice. Not once did she actually take a real hit or do anything in that fight.
Depends on the instances you're talking about I guess, though he soloed the Z-fighters repeatedly in the first movie with pretty much melee attacks alone.

One throw which smacked her down to the ground/water which should've at least knocked her out for someone of his power level, but fact remains she kept up with him until Goten and Trunks arrived.

Um...DBZ movies arnt canon...at all....

Set in different universes...

manga is true canon....

if your a manga pureist like me...you would know this...

Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
In all seriousness though, yeah. It was... Not that PIS stops people from constantly bringing up the moment of Vegeta making Bills bleed, etc.

Vegeta didn't make Bills bleed. I don't know why people keep saying that. He made him spit up some saliva when he decked him in the face. That's why Bills casually picked his ear while yawning after tanking Vegeta's strongest attack. Vegeta did better than anyone(other than SSJG Goku, obviously), but he still didn't do SHIT to Bills.

However, yeah, I consider most of the movies with Videl to have a shit ton of PIS. Unless Videl got as strong as Buu during the month it took Hirudegarn to show up, then there's no ****ing conceivable way that she should have been capable of tanking a single hit from him(of which she tanked a few), without being bisected like a frog in a science class. I generally ignore her anyways, so who cares?

Originally posted by ROTJ Vader
Um...DBZ movies arnt canon...at all....

Set in different universes...

manga is true canon....

if your a manga pureist like me...you would know this...

Exactly. They are cannon, but not timeline cannon.

You would know this... if you have common sense like me.

BTW, BOTG's IS cannon, as stated by Akira himself in DOZENS of interviews.

Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
Depends on the instances you're talking about I guess, though he soloed the Z-fighters repeatedly in the first movie with pretty much melee attacks alone.

One throw which smacked her down to the ground/water which should've at least knocked her out for someone of his power level, but fact remains she kept up with him until Goten and Trunks arrived.

Did any of his punches or kick destroy a planet like a casual blast did in the first movie? We've seen no melee hit in all of DBZ that compares to his blasts.

Actually it did KO since she was out of sight until Gohan arrived iirc

Originally posted by juggerman
Did any of his punches or kick destroy a planet like a casual blast did in the first movie? We've seen no melee hit in all of DBZ that compares to his blasts.

Actually it did KO since she was out of sight until Gohan arrived iirc
Oh, so you're saying basically any of his casual blasts were planet destroying ones? Piccolo deflected one when Broly was about to finish off an unconscious teen Gohan and that didn't destroy the planet they were on, and Goku endured plenty of Broly's blasts even before being given energy from the other Z-fighters. Goku would've been as dead as he was after Cell's self-destruct if those blasts were all planet busting ones. Either inconsistency, or Broly just put more energy into the blast that destroyed the little slaves' home planet.

From what I recall she just backed off after the kids started fighting Broly so as to not get in their way, but whatever.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Vegeta didn't make Bills bleed. I don't know why people keep saying that. He made him spit up some saliva when he decked him in the face. That's why Bills casually picked his ear while yawning after tanking Vegeta's strongest attack. Vegeta did better than anyone(other than SSJG Goku, obviously), but he still didn't do SHIT to Bills.

However, yeah, I consider most of the movies with Videl to have a shit ton of PIS. Unless Videl got as strong as Buu during the month it took Hirudegarn to show up, then there's no ****ing conceivable way that she should have been capable of tanking a single hit from him(of which she tanked a few), without being bisected like a frog in a science class. I generally ignore her anyways, so who cares?
Oh, I agree, but was just quoting what others were saying. lol Though yeah, can tell the bleed part was a bit hyperbole, even after looking at the fight again just now to be sure of it.

Pretty much.

Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
Oh, so you're saying basically any of his casual blasts were planet destroying ones? Piccolo deflected one when Broly was about to finish off an unconscious teen Gohan and that didn't destroy the planet they were on, and Goku endured plenty of Broly's blasts even before being given energy from the other Z-fighters. Goku would've been as dead as he was after Cell's self-destruct if those blasts were all planet busting ones. Either inconsistency, or Broly just put more energy into the blast that destroyed the little slaves' home planet.

From what I recall she just backed off after the kids started fighting Broly so as to not get in their way, but whatever.

He was midsentence, acquired the energy without strain and fired it without any problem at all. So yeah I'd say it was casual. Just because he didn't blow up the planet he was on doesn't mean it wasn't a casual blast. But even barring that one, not one of his punches/kick caused as much damage as the blast Piccolo deflected, or the ki he expelled he was getting stronger after he KO'd everybody before Piccolo arrived. Or even the one Gohan deflected and then used a shield to protect everybody and still took damage. Any way you slice it his melee is not a strong as his ki blasts. Period.

No he tossed he and then she was just missing until the end where she threw a crystal at him

Destructo Disc kills everything... and then goes for your mama.

Originally posted by Dramatic Gecko
Destructo Disc kills everything... and then goes for your mama.

When has it killed anything at all?

Originally posted by juggerman
He was midsentence, acquired the energy without strain and fired it without any problem at all. So yeah I'd say it was casual. Just because he didn't blow up the planet he was on doesn't mean it wasn't a casual blast. But even barring that one, not one of his punches/kick caused as much damage as the blast Piccolo deflected, or the ki he expelled he was getting stronger after he KO'd everybody before Piccolo arrived. Or even the one Gohan deflected and then used a shield to protect everybody and still took damage. Any way you slice it his melee is not a strong as his ki blasts. Period.

No he tossed he and then she was just missing until the end where she threw a crystal at him

I think you guys are a little confused.

First off, DBZ characters can punch just as hard as their blasts can hit someone. The only difference is that their blasts use condensed ki which resonates extreme heat, so that they can have a more dangerous attack that can destroy their opponent instead of just breaking their bones. I mean, could Gohan have vaporized Cell with his fist, or did he need a kamehameha wave with galaxy level force, and heat that makes a gamma ray burst look like a night in Alaska?

Lastly, and this point is mostly directed to Ridley, ki blasts are not all the same level of potency. Think about it, master roshi blew up the moon with a single kamehameha wave, yet, kid Goku slamming one into the ground didn't even destroy a city? The simple reason is that they condense their blasts to have more potency. I mean, think about it. What would do more damage? Shooting a bottle rocket at someone, or shooting them with a 50 caliber sniper rifle? I mean sure, when they want to, they can go around blowing up universes and galaxies like Janemba and Kid Buu, but when fighting someone, they condense that same amount of power so the damage only hits whoever they fire it at, or at least that small of an area. That's exactly why Kid Buu's blast destroyed earth, but Bills's didn't. Or why Frieza pointing at a planet could bust it, but Buu shooting a kamehameha wave that misfired didn't.

The power is in the potency of blasts, not AOE. That's why Broly could casually chuck a planet busting attack like it was nothing. To him, it wasn't, considering that he had been throwing around blasts with solar system+ potency all day.

Originally posted by juggerman
When has it killed anything at all?

Oh my god... you have a point... but it has cut through everything its touched so far.

Originally posted by Dramatic Gecko
Oh my god... you have a point... but it has cut through everything its touched so far.

Not Cell

Originally posted by Dramatic Gecko
Oh my god... you have a point... but it has cut through everything its touched so far.

Except for Cell and Gohan.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Except for Cell and Gohan.

I think that was filler.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
I think you guys are a little confused.

First off, DBZ characters can punch just as hard as their blasts can hit someone. The only difference is that their blasts use condensed ki which resonates extreme heat, so that they can have a more dangerous attack that can destroy their opponent instead of just breaking their bones. I mean, could Gohan have vaporized Cell with his fist, or did he need a kamehameha wave with galaxy level force, and heat that makes a gamma ray burst look like a night in Alaska?

Lastly, and this point is mostly directed to Ridley, ki blasts are not all the same level of potency. Think about it, master roshi blew up the moon with a single kamehameha wave, yet, kid Goku slamming one into the ground didn't even destroy a city? The simple reason is that they condense their blasts to have more potency. I mean, think about it. What would do more damage? Shooting a bottle rocket at someone, or shooting them with a 50 caliber sniper rifle? I mean sure, when they want to, they can go around blowing up universes and galaxies like Janemba and Kid Buu, but when fighting someone, they condense that same amount of power so the damage only hits whoever they fire it at, or at least that small of an area. That's exactly why Kid Buu's blast destroyed earth, but Bills's didn't. Or why Frieza pointing at a planet could bust it, but Buu shooting a kamehameha wave that misfired didn't.

The power is in the potency of blasts, not AOE. That's why Broly could casually chuck a planet busting attack like it was nothing. To him, it wasn't, considering that he had been throwing around blasts with solar system+ potency all day.

question did you just classify gohan as a galaxy buster?

Originally posted by chasedown
question did you just classify a galaxy buster as a galaxy buster?

Yes.

Originally posted by Dramatic Gecko
I think that was filler.

The Gohan part was, but Cell still casually tanked one to the back of the neck without flinching or even feeling/noticing it.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Yes. lol i meant to say gohan but ok

Originally posted by chasedown
lol i meant to say gohan but ok

Uh, I'm aware. I altered the quote from you, because Gohan is a galaxy buster. At least with anime scaling. In the manga, he's still a solar system buster with a single kamehameha wave though.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Uh, I'm aware. I altered the quote from you, because Gohan is a galaxy buster. At least with anime scaling. In the manga, he's still a solar system buster with a single kamehameha wave though.

I never really thought of it that way but i get what your saying

Krillen was able to cut buu in half with his disk I believe. He should beat Freeza.

Originally posted by God Cloth Seiya
Krillen was able to cut buu in half with his disk I believe. He should beat Freeza.

thats more because of buu physiology than actual power because that same destructo disk did nothing against cell

However we already know that cell >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Freeza

Freeza saga Krillen had also cut freeza to.

Originally posted by God Cloth Seiya
However we already know that cell >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Freeza

Freeza saga Krillen had also cut freeza to.


and then proceeded to get his ass whooped

Buu saga is vastly superior to freeze saga

Originally posted by God Cloth Seiya
Buu saga is vastly superior to freeze saga


So what are you trying to say? That he could kill both of them?

Buu's body structure allows him to be split into multiple pieces so krillins destructo disc cutting isnt exactly a great feat when it comes to buu.

Originally posted by God Cloth Seiya
Krillen was able to cut buu in half with his disk I believe. He should beat Freeza.

With the time and energy it takes Krillin to prepare the disk Frieza could easily kill him several times over. Frieza's overall speed and power set makes this a stomp in his favor