Hao Asakura(Shaman King) vs 3 Sannins(Naruto)

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pain100
who would win?
all skills and summons

pain100
who would win?

BloodRain
All.. as in G.S Hao?

Though even SoF Hao would crush them, I think.

Bentley
Maybe team can pull out a Genjutsu before dying a horrible death?

BloodRain
Maybe. He has got that whole curse reflection thing going on, could be a hassle.

SSJGGogeta
Holy shit, there's really a guy in Shaman King who can beat the three sannin?

Could I see some feats?

BloodRain
High end MHS to low Relativistic reactions when he reacted and blocked (#1 #2 #3) this laser
Aside from that he's far faster than hypersonic characters, even early on characters in the manga were evading machine gun fire. Later on characters like Yoh were able to, if barely, react to natural lightning. Yoh is also complete fodder to Hao here. So either way he has the speed needed here.



He also has the ability to reflect non-physical attacks (#1 #2), unconsciously at that. Its shown by a weaker character that it can work of a variety of spells etc, so it'll cause issues for genjutsu.



Here we have an X-Law, a group who extensively study the power and combat potential of Hao, saying how Town level force is nothing against him.

Offensively he's able to set people ablaze with a thought, he doesn't even have to look at them. (#1 #2)
The guy has mastered control over fire, water, wood, metal and wind. So any attacks using them are useless.

For even greater power there is a fallen Angel spirit called Azazel. Its power is so immense that it can easily destroy an island in a fraction of a second. Hao's reaction is to casually curb-stomp it with a smile on his face.



Then theres his ability to read minds. As shown in the manga this makes it impossible to form strategies or surprises against him.

He's able to summon Oni, really strong ones at that. Not nearly as strong as him, but definitely threats in this thread.

His Kinji Jusatsu, literally a killing spell, removes the soul of the user from their body with the limitation that the target must believe in life after death.

Finally is the Fumon Tonkou. This ability allows the use to not only read the opponents energy in order to see what they will do next, a form of precog, but to also nullify the energy in attacks. A highly desirable move.








All of that is the normal Hao. When he fuses with the Great Spirit, his new form is on a completely different level. So much that the 5 Elemental Spirits (note that all of the above was done while using one of these spirits) combined are still nothing to him but nuisances. For example in this stage he is able to kill you and absorb your soul with just a thought, like the Kinji Jusatsu, however this works on everyone regardless of beliefs. He uses this to absorb everyone on the island. (#1 #2 #3)

Demonic Phoenix
Man, you suck at using scans.

SSJGGogeta
Originally posted by BloodRain
High end MHS to low Relativistic reactions when he reacted and blocked (#1 #2 #3) this laser
Aside from that he's far faster than hypersonic characters, even early on characters in the manga were evading machine gun fire. Later on characters like Yoh were able to, if barely, react to natural lightning. Yoh is also complete fodder to Hao here. So either way he has the speed needed here.



He also has the ability to reflect non-physical attacks (#1 #2), unconsciously at that. Its shown by a weaker character that it can work of a variety of spells etc, so it'll cause issues for genjutsu.



Here we have an X-Law, a group who extensively study the power and combat potential of Hao, saying how Town level force is nothing against him.

Offensively he's able to set people ablaze with a thought, he doesn't even have to look at them. (#1 #2)
The guy has mastered control over fire, water, wood, metal and wind. So any attacks using them are useless.

For even greater power there is a fallen Angel spirit called Azazel. Its power is so immense that it can easily destroy an island in a fraction of a second. Hao's reaction is to casually curb-stomp it with a smile on his face.



Then theres his ability to read minds. As shown in the manga this makes it impossible to form strategies or surprises against him.

He's able to summon Oni, really strong ones at that. Not nearly as strong as him, but definitely threats in this thread.

His Kinji Jusatsu, literally a killing spell, removes the soul of the user from their body with the limitation that the target must believe in life after death.

Finally is the Fumon Tonkou. This ability allows the use to not only read the opponents energy in order to see what they will do next, a form of precog, but to also nullify the energy in attacks. A highly desirable move.








All of that is the normal Hao. When he fuses with the Great Spirit, his new form is on a completely different level. So much that the 5 Elemental Spirits (note that all of the above was done while using one of these spirits) combined are still nothing to him but nuisances. For example in this stage he is able to kill you and absorb your soul with just a thought, like the Kinji Jusatsu, however this works on everyone regardless of beliefs. He uses this to absorb everyone on the island. (#1 #2 #3)

"Man, you suck at using scans.", to quote DP.

Also, those feats are exaggerated by you, and untrue. The shit done in Shaman king is outshined by Jiraiya's feats alone.

Bentley
The pwning an island buster as if it was nothing looks legit.

BloodRain
What's exaggerated?
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Man, you suck at using scans. Shush, I was using the phone and out of it.

wakkawakkawakka
I guess it can't be helped, time for some mini-suns and black holes. Maybe som comet swords for good measure too. These are the big boy feats but Hao doesn't need them in this fight:
mini-sun feats
http://www.mangapanda.com/138-30755-7/shaman-king/chapter-299.html
http://www.mangapanda.com/138-30755-19/shaman-king/chapter-299.html
http://www.mangapanda.com/138-30755-20/shaman-king/chapter-299.html
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/shaman_king_kang_zeng_bang/v27/c299/21.html

comet feats:
http://www.mangapanda.com/138-30755-12/shaman-king/chapter-299.html
http://www.mangapanda.com/138-30755-13/shaman-king/chapter-299.html

black hole feat:
http://www.mangapanda.com/138-30755-22/shaman-king/chapter-299.html

Demonic Phoenix
Originally posted by BloodRain
Shush, I was using the phone and out of it.

If you're high, you shouldn't be making srs bzns posts. uhuh

BloodRain
Does that perfectly coherent text (y'know, as clear as things are coming from me) look like I was high? Scrub :<

SSJGGogeta
Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
I guess it can't be helped, time for some mini-suns and black holes. Maybe som comet swords for good measure too. These are the big boy feats but Hao doesn't need them in this fight:
mini-sun feats
http://www.mangapanda.com/138-30755-7/shaman-king/chapter-299.html
http://www.mangapanda.com/138-30755-19/shaman-king/chapter-299.html
http://www.mangapanda.com/138-30755-20/shaman-king/chapter-299.html
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/shaman_king_kang_zeng_bang/v27/c299/21.html

comet feats:
http://www.mangapanda.com/138-30755-12/shaman-king/chapter-299.html
http://www.mangapanda.com/138-30755-13/shaman-king/chapter-299.html

black hole feat:
http://www.mangapanda.com/138-30755-22/shaman-king/chapter-299.html

Pfft, since you obviously haven't heard, the name of an attack means NOTHING unless the name is backed up by feats.

The "mini sun feats", you presented, are demonstrably simple fireballs. Jackass.

LOL, same thing with the "comet feat", that happens to be a ball of nitrogen and ice, something that even Haku could deal with.

Black hole feat... Really? Is that why it only started sucking out their souls? Last time I checked, a technique that sucks someones soul in and seals it, even if called a black hole, isn't really a black hole at all. Unless you're also saying that Vegeta's Big bang attack was really as powerful as the big bang, or that Sasuke's amaterasu is really more powerful than the sun itself.

Bentley
Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Unless you're also saying that Vegeta's Big bang attack was really as powerful as the big bang, or that Sasuke's amaterasu is really more powerful than the sun itself.

Or that Tien Shin Han's Lightspeed punch it's a lightspeed move, pure nonsense stick out tongue

SSJGGogeta
Originally posted by Bentley
Or that Tien Shin Han's Lightspeed punch it's a lightspeed move, pure nonsense stick out tongue

Read my post again.

"the name of an attack means NOTHING unless the name is backed up by feats."

thumb up

Kid Goku was able to demonstrably travel more distance than light itself, and in a shorter time, just by running to grab Roshi's sunglasses.

It's pretty safe to assume that Tien could at least punch that fast, when he was keeping up with Goku the entire fight, and eventually won.

It's completely different than someone calling their attack a mini sun, just like in FMAB when father created a "sun" in his hand, that would have destroyed a building if expanded(which is FAR less than the capacity of an actual star in terms of destruction).

I posted that to show how silly he was to claim those scans to be cosmic level feats when they were clearly smaller by BILLIONS of leagues than any of the things they claimed to represent.

wakkawakkawakka
Well can you prove that its not a mini-sun then? Also I don't know that many fireball in anime that emit radiation and fry things w/o actually being near them. Would also like to point out that Hao had already absorbed their souls by that point and the black hole mentioned was created by the gravitational collapse of a mini-sun. Then there's this:
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/shaman_king_kang_zeng_bang/v27/c299/9.html
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/shaman_king_kang_zeng_bang/v27/c299/10.html

Then again because the whole battle inside of GS was an abstract, it's a tad iffy to tell how these attack would actually affect the material world. Would like to point out that Hao doesn't actually need a physical body once he has GS as well:
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/shaman_king_kang_zeng_bang/v27/c297/22.html
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/shaman_king_kang_zeng_bang/v27/c297/24.html
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/shaman_king_kang_zeng_bang/v27/c297/25.html

SSJGGogeta
Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
Well can you prove that its not a mini-sun then? Also I don't know that many fireball in anime that emit radiation and fry things w/o actually being near them. Would also like to point out that Hao had already absorbed their souls by that point and the black hole mentioned was created by the gravitational collapse of a mini-sun. Then there's this:
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/shaman_king_kang_zeng_bang/v27/c299/9.html
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/shaman_king_kang_zeng_bang/v27/c299/10.html

Then again because the whole battle inside of GS was an abstract, it's a tad iffy to tell how these attack would actually affect the material world. Would like to point out that Hao doesn't actually need a physical body once he has GS as well:
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/shaman_king_kang_zeng_bang/v27/c297/22.html
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/shaman_king_kang_zeng_bang/v27/c297/24.html
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/shaman_king_kang_zeng_bang/v27/c297/25.html

lol, burden of proof rests on the one who makes the claim, genius. I know of plenty of flames that do that. Or any large flame that generates heat. thumb up

Hm, would like to point out that he obviously hadn't if he could do it a second time.

http://i36.mangapanda.com/shaman-king/299/shaman-king-735416.jpg

You swapped that around. Hao had a body, but no soul. He obviously DOES need a physical body. thumb up

wakkawakkawakka
^He was inside GS when that happend and I'm legit curious as to whether or not you outright ignored the scan I posted of Hao being able to kill Yoh after having his head cut off.

Also where are these fireball that you speak of because I would like to see them. I already know Hao's mini-sun don't pack the punch of the real thing since the characters say as much in the actual fight. Also, while you're debating the legitimacy of Hao's grand feats, can you answer exactly what any of the Sannin are supposed to do against a guy who could in all honesty kill them with a passing glance.

BloodRain
Even at the minimum he's toying around with 5 island level threats..

Sage!Naruto is more destructive than them, and his greatest attack was is low Town with an attack beyond what Jiraiya could master. They're Multi-Cityblock. Base Hao is beyond this.

SSJGGogeta
Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
^He was inside GS when that happend and I'm legit curious as to whether or not you outright ignored the scan I posted of Hao being able to kill Yoh after having his head cut off.

Also where are these fireball that you speak of because I would like to see them. I already know Hao's mini-sun don't pack the punch of the real thing since the characters say as much in the actual fight. Also, while you're debating the legitimacy of Hao's grand feats, can you answer exactly what any of the Sannin are supposed to do against a guy who could in all honesty kill them with a passing glance.

http://i15.mangapanda.com/shaman-king/299/shaman-king-735400.jpg

Here's the fireball I was talking about. This in no way, shape or form even compares to a star, or 90% of the fireballs shown in Naruto.

How about you first tell me what ANY of them could do to kill the Sannin PERIOD, let alone with "a passing glance"?

The feats constantly shown in Naruto vastly surpass the ones in Shaman king.

How is Hao going to fair against Jiraiya's genjutsu that's unbreakable and unavoidable? Not to mention that Jiraiya's sage mode was able to physically trump characters with mountain+ feats and durability without even using Rasengan.

How is he going to survive when Tsunade, who can destroy Susano'o's with Mountain range+ durability, punches him ONCE? Hint: He's not.

How would he do against Orochimaru who 1. Can capture him in genjutsu by being around him, 2. Can regenerate any part of his body, even after being bisected, 3. Could simply perma-stun him with curse mark, 4. Can block almost any attack he could use with a triple rashoman, and 5. Is capable of using edo tensei to revive someone like Hashirama, who could solo the entire collection of Shaman King? Just to answer myself here, "not well".

All the Sanin have feats that even go beyond what I listed just off the top of my head.

Hao gets shat on. thumb up

wakkawakkawakka
^ That...still doesn't answer my question: two of my questions if you want to be technical. And I'm just going to take you statement as you deliberately ignoring the scan I posted of Hao being able to kill people even after having his head cut off. On top of that Hao was able to fight off an entire naval force. Then there's the more general ability he has to read minds: meaning that strategy is completely useless.

Also Hao has the laser blocking feat:
http://www.mangapanda.com/138-7984-15/shaman-king/chapter-232.html
http://www.mangapanda.com/138-7984-18/shaman-king/chapter-232.html
http://www.mangapanda.com/138-7985-13/shaman-king/chapter-233.html
http://www.mangapanda.com/138-7985-14/shaman-king/chapter-233.html

SSJGGogeta
Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
^ That...still doesn't answer my question: two of my questions if you want to be technical. And I'm just going to take you statement as you deliberately ignoring the scan I posted of Hao being able to kill people even after having his head cut off. On top of that Hao was able to fight off an entire naval force. Then there's the more general ability he has to read minds: meaning that strategy is completely useless.

Also Hao has the laser blocking feat:
http://www.mangapanda.com/138-7984-15/shaman-king/chapter-232.html
http://www.mangapanda.com/138-7984-18/shaman-king/chapter-232.html
http://www.mangapanda.com/138-7985-13/shaman-king/chapter-233.html
http://www.mangapanda.com/138-7985-14/shaman-king/chapter-233.html

It actually does. The sannin can not be killed by a passing glance from Hao. thumb up

What does that matter? Orochimaru fought on par with an awakened jinchuriki after he got bisected. Tsunade can regenerate for christ sake, and Jiraiya can tank anything Hao could throw at him. What good is the head thing going to do him, when he 1. Can't move because of the curse mark, 2. Gets mushed into a pulp by a pissed off Tsunade, and 3. Gets VAPORIZED by a massive sage mode rasengan from Jiraiya. thumb up

All three of the sannin have mind traps and barriers set up specifically so that no one can read their minds, unless they have enough power to overcome the sannin. Hao does not, as I have already proven.

You mean Hao being durable enough to tank a laser? What does that do for him? Jiraiya can tank mountain busting biju bombs, Oro can block them, and Tsunade can easily go through a mountain range busting sword. That laser was nothing compared to even a single giant rasengan, and all three of the sanin are able to tank those while laughing.

Again, Hao gets shat on.

wakkawakkawakka
So...just going to ignore my scans again. Doesn't make it any less legit.

Orochimaru was on the defensive that whole fight...don't even try to say otherwise. Also that whole thing falls apart the second Orochimaru gets disintergrated by Hao, which he also is shown to be able to do in that dose der scans you keep ignoring.

Which won't work because once again Hao can read minds meaning any kind of setup they try to make is useless.

Show me Jiraiya tanking a biji-ball or Tsunade's mountain busting strength. Orochimaru barely blocked that biju-ball: IIRC it destroyed all the Rashomon gates and put him flat on his ass.

SSJGGogeta
Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
So...just going to ignore my scans again. Doesn't make it any less legit.

What makes them less "legit", is the fact that you're relying on an attacks name as the sole basis of your argument, without providing any proof whatsoever as to the destructive capacity of the attacks. Again, you have just as much grounds to argue that SSJ1 Android saga Vegeta's big bang attack has as much force as the big bang. thumb up

Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
Orochimaru was on the defensive that whole fight...don't even try to say otherwise. Also that whole thing falls apart the second Orochimaru gets disintergrated by Hao, which he also is shown to be able to do in that dose der scans you keep ignoring.

Orochimaru was testing Naruto's strength, as he clearly stated. Once again, Hao has nothing on the destructive level of a biju bomb, that Orochimaru casually tanked and countered. thumb up

Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
Which won't work because once again Hao can read minds meaning any kind of setup they try to make is useless.

"All three of the sannin have mind traps and barriers set up specifically so that no one can read their minds, unless they have enough power to overcome the sannin. Hao does not, as I have already proven."

thumb up

Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
Show me Jiraiya tanking a biji-ball or Tsunade's mountain busting strength. Orochimaru barely blocked that biju-ball: IIRC it destroyed all the Rashomon gates and put him flat on his ass.

I'll do you one better.

http://i15.mangapanda.com/naruto/295/naruto-5765.jpg

This is a much weaker person than Jiraiya blocking and tanking a biju bomb. Jiraiya has been stated to be capable of physically taking on all of the Akatsuki at the same time, just because of his sage capabilities. Akatsuki members casually deal with biju bombs. Tsunade punched through Madara's Susano'o, the same Susano'o that withstood mountain busting punches from Hashirama's wood idol(albeit Tsunade only shattered it's chest). Orochimaru tricked Naruto to catch him by surprise, which is why his head came from underground unscathed to stab him in the chest. thumb up

Again... Hao gets shat on.

wakkawakkawakka
Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
What makes them less "legit", is the fact that you're relying on an attacks name as the sole basis of your argument, without providing any proof whatsoever as to the destructive capacity of the attacks. Again, you have just as much grounds to argue that SSJ1 Android saga Vegeta's big bang attack has as much force as the big bang. thumb up


Okay since you insist on dodging the question I asked, I guess I'll just have to ask it again. "What can the Sannin do against a guy who doesn't need his physical body and can kill people after being decapitated?" Oh, I should also clarify the previous question I asked "Can you prove that the mini-sun that Hao creates is anything less than just that? Because as I recall Ren had to make an EM field just so his group wouldn't be fried by being in proximity of Hao" Hope that clarifies what I'm asking you.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Orochimaru was testing Naruto's strength, as he clearly stated. Once again, Hao has nothing on the destructive level of a biju bomb, that Orochimaru casually tanked and countered. thumb up

Still doesn't change the fact that Orochimaru couldn't do any significant damage to Naruto and had to play defense against his onslaught of attack.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta

"All three of the sannin have mind traps and barriers set up specifically so that no one can read their minds, unless they have enough power to overcome the sannin. Hao does not, as I have already proven."

Prove it. Show me any of the Sannin not getting genjutsu'd or instances of mental defenses. Orochimaru got pwned by one, and neither Tsunade nor Jiraiya have shown defense against mental attacks.


Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
I'll do you one better.

http://i15.mangapanda.com/naruto/295/naruto-5765.jpg

This is a much weaker person than Jiraiya blocking and tanking a biju bomb. Jiraiya has been stated to be capable of physically taking on all of the Akatsuki at the same time, just because of his sage capabilities. Akatsuki members casually deal with biju bombs. Tsunade punched through Madara's Susano'o, the same Susano'o that withstood mountain busting punches from Hashirama's wood idol(albeit Tsunade only shattered it's chest). Orochimaru tricked Naruto to catch him by surprise, which is why his head came from underground unscathed to stab him in the chest. thumb up

Again... Hao gets shat on.
So instead of actually showing me a durability feat you've decided to power-scale off another character. Plus in that very scan you presented, that was the Rashamon gates blocking the biju ball and not Orochimaru tanking it point-black which is what would've been required to debate either character's durability. Also the interpretation of the Tsunade feat is wrong for obvious reason that you should be able to see.

SSJGGogeta
Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
Okay since you insist on dodging the question I asked, I guess I'll just have to ask it again. "What can the Sannin do against a guy who doesn't need his physical body and can kill people after being decapitated?" Oh, I should also clarify the previous question I asked "Can you prove that the mini-sun that Hao creates is anything less than just that? Because as I recall Ren had to make an EM field just so his group wouldn't be fried by being in proximity of Hao" Hope that clarifies what I'm asking you.

Okay, since you insist on dodging the answer I gave, I'll just give it again. "What good is the head thing going to do him, when he 1. Can't move because of the curse mark, 2. Gets mushed into a pulp by a pissed off Tsunade, and 3. Gets VAPORIZED by a massive sage mode rasengan from Jiraiya. ". Oh, I should also clarify the previous question I asked, "Can you prove that the "mini-sun" that he creates is a mini-sun, from anything other than the attacks name?" thumb up

BTW, Ren created a magnetic barrier so they wouldn't be scorched by the flames because...

http://z.mhcdn.net/store/manga/5524/27-299.0/compressed/qm_t_sk_kzb299pg11.jpg?v=11248493143

As you can CLEARLY see from this scan, the "sun" was shooting out at them. It's proximity is nothing, as they were all fine with it before it expanded. thumb up

Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
Still doesn't change the fact that Orochimaru couldn't do any significant damage to Naruto and had to play defense against his onslaught of attack.

You might as well say the same thing about Itachi.

Orochimaru was sick and dying, and he was only trying to gauge Naruto's strength. He didn't even use any of his strong attacks, like his white snake bearer jutsu, or any of his fire techniques, or genjutsu(which he's been shown to be pretty proficient at), or his curse mark, etc. If Oro had used too much strength, he would have killed Naruto. You can even see that just his kusanagi blade did damage.

Either way, Oro was toying with Naruto the entire time.

Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
Prove it. Show me any of the Sannin not getting genjutsu'd or instances of mental defenses. Orochimaru got pwned by one, and neither Tsunade nor Jiraiya have shown defense against mental attacks.

Mind reading=/=Genjutsu. thumb up

You're apparently forgetting the part where Inoichi tried reading the dead Pain's mind and said his mental barrier was on the level of a sannin's.

thumb up

Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
So instead of actually showing me a durability feat you've decided to power-scale off another character. Plus in that very scan you presented, that was the Rashamon gates blocking the biju ball and not Orochimaru tanking it point-black which is what would've been required to debate either character's durability. Also the interpretation of the Tsunade feat is wrong for obvious reason that you should be able to see.

The reason for this is because Jiraiya has hardly ant durability feats of his own. He hasn't been shown fighting that many times at all. Neither have any of the Sannin. However, you can still scale Oro's durability to Jiraiya's, simply because it was stated that he was the most dangerous of the Sannin, Oro was the most cunning and intelligent, and Tsunade was the most brutally strong.

Jiraiya's durability > Oro's durability > blocked biju bomb.

Even if Oro used Rashoman to block it, he still tanked it successfully.

wakkawakkawakka
Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Okay, since you insist on dodging the answer I gave, I'll just give it again. "What good is the head thing going to do him, when he 1. Can't move because of the curse mark, 2. Gets mushed into a pulp by a pissed off Tsunade, and 3. Gets VAPORIZED by a massive sage mode rasengan from Jiraiya. ". Oh, I should also clarify the previous question I asked, "Can you prove that the "mini-sun" that he creates is a mini-sun, from anything other than the attacks name?" thumb up

BTW, Ren created a magnetic barrier so they wouldn't be scorched by the flames because...

http://z.mhcdn.net/store/manga/5524/27-299.0/compressed/qm_t_sk_kzb299pg11.jpg?v=11248493143

As you can CLEARLY see from this scan, the "sun" was shooting out at them. It's proximity is nothing, as they were all fine with it before it expanded. thumb up

Pfft...did you really just imply that a Curse Seal is more detrimental than decapitation? Seriously? I know you like to disagree with me but you have to realize that's ridiculous. Also if decapitation didn't stop Hao, what make you think being squished is going to do any better. Which isn't likely since all three will have their soul absorbed long before then. Also the curse seal requires direct contact and against a guy who can disintegrate people who get near him that's not a viable option. I can show you Hao disintegrating people/object if you like though I'm pretty sure I've done that twice now.

As for the Solar radiation, you couldn't prove if wasn't less than a mini-sun so you decided to low-ball the sun feat instead. Which still doesn't work since on the previous page of the scan you just posted Hao states he was going to attack the group directly with the radiation instead of just relying on the heat alone.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta



You might as well say the same thing about Itachi.

Orochimaru was sick and dying, and he was only trying to gauge Naruto's strength. He didn't even use any of his strong attacks, like his white snake bearer jutsu, or any of his fire techniques, or genjutsu(which he's been shown to be pretty proficient at), or his curse mark, etc. If Oro had used too much strength, he would have killed Naruto. You can even see that just his kusanagi blade did damage.

Either way, Oro was toying with Naruto the entire time.

Itachi pwned Orochimaru through genjutsu backlash so your point?

So getting put on his ass, ripped in half, and not being able to hurt Naruto counts as toying? Also the Yamata justu is nice and all but it didn't do anything other than get cut up so a featless justu isn't a very good defense on his behalf. Furthermore trying to reason why Orochimaru couldn't do anything to Naruto doesn't change the fact that he didn't do anything significant to Naruto.


Originally posted by SSJGGogeta

Mind reading=/=Genjutsu. thumb up

You're apparently forgetting the part where Inoichi tried reading the dead Pain's mind and said his mental barrier was on the level of a sannin's.

thumb up

I said "or mental defenses as well"

Okay then show me the Sannin resisting a mental attack. Again your power-scaling which doesn't guarantee the feat for the Sannin.
Originally posted by SSJGGogeta

The reason for this is because Jiraiya has hardly ant durability feats of his own. He hasn't been shown fighting that many times at all. Neither have any of the Sannin. However, you can still scale Oro's durability to Jiraiya's, simply because it was stated that he was the most dangerous of the Sannin, Oro was the most cunning and intelligent, and Tsunade was the most brutally strong.

Jiraiya's durability > Oro's durability > blocked biju bomb.

Even if Oro used Rashoman to block it, he still tanked it successfully.
So what? If Jiraiya doesn't have the durability feats then he simply doesn't have them. You can't give him someone else's feat simply because he lacking. Also Orochimaru's regen was due to body modification. I do recall Jiraiya losing and arm and getting stabbed: that's some great durability right?

Also Orochimaru never tanked the full force of a biju on his lonesome unless you have a scan something showing otherwise. Also since you're so found of mentioning it, could you present me of the Giant Rasengan's destructive power: because I can certainly show you Hao one-shotting island busters and taking on a naval force.

Using essentially a big wall =/= own durability

SSJGGogeta
Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
Pfft...did you really just imply that a Curse Seal is more detrimental than decapitation? Seriously? I know you like to disagree with me but you have to realize that's ridiculous. Also if decapitation didn't stop Hao, what make you think being squished is going to do any better. Which isn't likely since all three will have their soul absorbed long before then. Also the curse seal requires direct contact and against a guy who can disintegrate people who get near him that's not a viable option. I can show you Hao disintegrating people/object if you like though I'm pretty sure I've done that twice now.

Pfft, read my comment next time, dumb ass.

Curse seal makes you incapacitated. Decapitation does not. Not to mention that he would have no opening to attack the sannin while he's being vaporized by a massive rasengan. thumb up

Again, Hao has no speed feats to be able to touch the Sannin.

Hao can disintegrate people who are much weaker than him. The sannin are much stronger. He can do nothing against them.

And? Aizen can vaporize people, even better than Hao can, but can he do shit to Ichigo, who is much stronger than him? No, so Hao gets shat on.

Also, that didn't happen. Hao shot fire from his "mini-sun", not radiation, dumb ass. Hao named his attack a flare star. It has radiation. So what? It's obviously not enough to break through a simple barrier or damage someone, so what can it do to the Sannin, who can easily shrug it off and kill its caster?

Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
Itachi pwned Orochimaru through genjutsu backlash so your point?

So getting put on his ass, ripped in half, and not being able to hurt Naruto counts as toying? Also the Yamata justu is nice and all but it didn't do anything other than get cut up so a featless justu isn't a very good defense on his behalf. Furthermore trying to reason why Orochimaru couldn't do anything to Naruto doesn't change the fact that he didn't do anything significant to Naruto.

Uh, you obviously missed my point. I said Orochimaru was toying with Naruto, like Itachi was with Sasuke. Not that Orochimaru could somehow beat Itachi. Stop twisting my words to support your conclusion, you liar.

Yes, tricking Naruto into thinking he was hurt, so he could stab him in the chest, while not sustaining a single scratch from the entire battle, IS toying with someone.

Okay though, Naruto also failed to do anything to Orochimaru, who didn't have a single scratch on him.

Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
I said "or mental defenses as well"

Okay then show me the Sannin resisting a mental attack. Again your power-scaling which doesn't guarantee the feat for the Sannin.

Either leave this debate now, or stop being a phucking liar. You did not say that. You said, "Prove it. Show me any of the Sannin not getting genjutsu'd or instances of mental defenses. Orochimaru got pwned by one, and neither Tsunade nor Jiraiya have shown defense against mental attacks.".

For the last phucking time, Mental attacks/Genjutsu =/= Mind reading. The Sannin have mental barriers to make it impossible to read their minds or get info from them, as I've already proven. Get that through your dense skull already.

Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
So what? If Jiraiya doesn't have the durability feats then he simply doesn't have them. You can't give him someone else's feat simply because he lacking. Also Orochimaru's regen was due to body modification. I do recall Jiraiya losing and arm and getting stabbed: that's some great durability right?

Also Orochimaru never tanked the full force of a biju on his lonesome unless you have a scan something showing otherwise. Also since you're so found of mentioning it, could you present me of the Giant Rasengan's destructive power: because I can certainly show you Hao one-shotting island busters and taking on a naval force.

Using essentially a big wall =/= own durability

Okay then, so since you're too stupid to realize that a weaker characters durability is lower than a stronger characters, we'll just use someone like Suigetsu. He tanked a biju wave from the eight tails, and survived. He would shit on Hao.

Now, since Suigetsu is weaker than Kisame by several leagues, according to Sasuke, and Jiraiya could solo the entire Akatsuki, according to Itachi, Jiraiya can shit stomp Hao with a smile on his face, without Tsunade OR Oro. thumb up

wakkawakkawakka
Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Pfft, read my comment next time, dumb ass.

Curse seal makes you incapacitated. Decapitation does not. Not to mention that he would have no opening to attack the sannin while he's being vaporized by a massive rasengan. thumb up

Again, Hao has no speed feats to be able to touch the Sannin.

Hao can disintegrate people who are much weaker than him. The sannin are much stronger. He can do nothing against them.

And? Aizen can vaporize people, even better than Hao can, but can he do shit to Ichigo, who is much stronger than him? No, so Hao gets shat on.

Also, that didn't happen. Hao shot fire from his "mini-sun", not radiation, dumb ass. Hao named his attack a flare star. It has radiation. So what? It's obviously not enough to break through a simple barrier or damage someone, so what can it do to the Sannin, who can easily shrug it off and kill its caster?


So...you serious about the Curse Seal working on a decapitated head? Really?! Oh and do show me the extent of whom the Curse seal actually works because as I recall Orochimaru has to bite someone to do it and your acting as if Hao's just going to stand there and let it happen.

Oh and did I forget to mention Hao can fly? Hao can sustain both combat and travel flight for up to 50,000 ft if he needs to.

The Aizen and Ichigo circumstance is out of context to what we're talking about and there was a clear reason as to why Ichigo didn't just go poof when around Aizen. Again, would you answer my question about what the Sannin are going to do about soul absorption please? I'll keep asking until you give me a clear answer. Forgive me for being a little arrogant in asking you to include the question in your answer big grin

With the mini-sun, Ren specifically mentions that the attack wasn't simply fire here but in fact radiation. Like how you've yet to prove the negative you initially proposed about Hao's mini-sun not being one.: http://www.mangahere.com/manga/shaman_king_kang_zeng_bang/v27/c299/9.html
Originally posted by SSJGGogeta

Uh, you obviously missed my point. I said Orochimaru was toying with Naruto, like Itachi was with Sasuke. Not that Orochimaru could somehow beat Itachi. Stop twisting my words to support your conclusion, you liar.

Yes, tricking Naruto into thinking he was hurt, so he could stab him in the chest, while not sustaining a single scratch from the entire battle, IS toying with someone.

Okay though, Naruto also failed to do anything to Orochimaru, who didn't have a single scratch on him.


You didn't make that point about Itachi and Sasuke clear at all in your previous post: heck you didn't even mention that you were using there fight as an example to being with.

So you making excuses for Orochimaru again as to why he couldn't do anything. Also could you refer to me the scan of Orochimaru tricking Naruto again? He couldn't harm Naruto and was on the defensive the entire fight, its not really toying when someone who puts you in compromising positions which Naruto did to Orochimaru.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta

Either leave this debate now, or stop being a phucking liar. You did not say that. You said, "Prove it. Show me any of the Sannin not getting genjutsu'd or instances of mental defenses. Orochimaru got pwned by one, and neither Tsunade nor Jiraiya have shown defense against mental attacks.".

For the last phucking time, Mental attacks/Genjutsu =/= Mind reading. The Sannin have mental barriers to make it impossible to read their minds or get info from them, as I've already proven. Get that through your dense skull already.

"or instances of mental defenses" still falls in line with "or mental defenses" I'm allowed to paraphrase my own words you know. You still have yet to prove anything, just though I'd mention that.

I never said genjutsu = mental defense, okay I compared them a little, but even then you've yet to show me any reason as to why I should believe the Sannin can prevent their minds from being read. What happened to that Inochi example you brought up earlier? Surely you can show me a scan of that right? Scans pretty please with cherries on top smile


Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Okay then, so since you're too stupid to realize that a weaker characters durability is lower than a stronger characters, we'll just use someone like Suigetsu. He tanked a biju wave from the eight tails, and survived. He would shit on Hao.

Now, since Suigetsu is weaker than Kisame by several leagues, according to Sasuke, and Jiraiya could solo the entire Akatsuki, according to Itachi, Jiraiya can shit stomp Hao with a smile on his face, without Tsunade OR Oro. thumb up

Does Jiraiya have the ability to liquefy his body? Nope. Does Jiraiya have on panel feats of tanking a biju ball or a comparable durability feat? Nope. Did Jiraiya loose and arm and get stabbed? Indeed. Also with that Suigetsu example, the dude was out of commission after tanking it.

Itachi never stated Jiraiya could take out Akatsuki and considering the time that statement is made and what we now know about Itachi, its possible that Itachi's statement wasn't meant to be taking at face value when reading it. You have yet to provide scans or videos of any kind to support your claims BTW(In case you forgot)

SSJGGogeta
Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
So...you serious about the Curse Seal working on a decapitated head? Really?! Oh and do show me the extent of whom the Curse seal actually works because as I recall Orochimaru has to bite someone to do it and your acting as if Hao's just going to stand there and let it happen.

Oh and did I forget to mention Hao can fly? Hao can sustain both combat and travel flight for up to 50,000 ft if he needs to.

The Aizen and Ichigo circumstance is out of context to what we're talking about and there was a clear reason as to why Ichigo didn't just go poof when around Aizen. Again, would you answer my question about what the Sannin are going to do about soul absorption please? I'll keep asking until you give me a clear answer. Forgive me for being a little arrogant in asking you to include the question in your answer big grin

With the mini-sun, Ren specifically mentions that the attack wasn't simply fire here but in fact radiation. Like how you've yet to prove the negative you initially proposed about Hao's mini-sun not being one.: http://www.mangahere.com/manga/shaman_king_kang_zeng_bang/v27/c299/9.html

So Hao starts the fight off decapitated? Okay, because he can only use the vaporize shit when he's headless, and since its destruction feats are garbage to half the shit in Naruto, he gets vaporized by Jiraiya who walks through it. Yes though, while under curse mark, he can't move AT ALL.

And? It doesn't matter if who he's fighting is much stronger and faster, and can jump just as high as well as summon giants that tall.

How is it out of context? Hao can only vaporize someone much weaker than him from sheer presence, and that will do nothing to someone much stronger than him. I already have. Hao can only suck out souls with that "black hole" move, and the sannin are vastly more than capable of destroying ACTUAL black holes, as witnessed with planetary devastation. thumb up

http://z.mhcdn.net/store/manga/5524/27-299.0/compressed/qm_t_sk_kzb299pg14_15.jpg?v=11248493143

Hmm, doesn't look like it's a "mini-sun" to me, if it's not even as hot as a volcano. thumb up

Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
You didn't make that point about Itachi and Sasuke clear at all in your previous post: heck you didn't even mention that you were using there fight as an example to being with.

So you making excuses for Orochimaru again as to why he couldn't do anything. Also could you refer to me the scan of Orochimaru tricking Naruto again? He couldn't harm Naruto and was on the defensive the entire fight, its not really toying when someone who puts you in compromising positions which Naruto did to Orochimaru.

"You might as well say the same thing about Itachi.". How you got, "Orochimaru is stronger than Sasuke", I will never understand. Anyone with a brain can tell that Oro was ****ing with Naruto, just like Itachi was with Sasuke. thumb up

http://i16.mangapanda.com/naruto/295/naruto-5769.jpg

Right here, actually. You know, when Oro was "knocked on his ass", when in actuality, he put his head in the ground to surprise Naruto by stabbing him in the chest. Also, you know, Oro still has not even a single scratch. So he was obviously trying his best, right? thumb up

Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
"or instances of mental defenses" still falls in line with "or mental defenses" I'm allowed to paraphrase my own words you know. You still have yet to prove anything, just though I'd mention that.

I never said genjutsu = mental defense, okay I compared them a little, but even then you've yet to show me any reason as to why I should believe the Sannin can prevent their minds from being read. What happened to that Inochi example you brought up earlier? Surely you can show me a scan of that right? Scans pretty please with cherries on top

http://i14.mangapanda.com/naruto/418/naruto-1569597.jpg

Hm, looks like a genjutsu shield CAN prevent mind reading. Right after this happens, he says it's on par with a sannin's mental barrier. In the databooks, it even elaborates to the point of saying that every Anbu rank ninja has some type of mental barrier, although not anywhere near the level of this one.

Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
Does Jiraiya have the ability to liquefy his body? Nope. Does Jiraiya have on panel feats of tanking a biju ball or a comparable durability feat? Nope. Did Jiraiya loose and arm and get stabbed? Indeed. Also with that Suigetsu example, the dude was out of commission after tanking it.

Itachi never stated Jiraiya could take out Akatsuki and considering the time that statement is made and what we now know about Itachi, its possible that Itachi's statement wasn't meant to be taking at face value when reading it. You have yet to provide scans or videos of any kind to support your claims BTW(In case you forgot)

And? What does that matter? Suigetsu can still EASILY be hit and killed by someone just punching him if they're strong enough. Actually though, Jiraiya DOES have this feat.

http://i38.mangapanda.com/naruto/375/naruto-1569191.jpg

Easily tossing off a hundred-ton rinnegan enhanced ox. Not to mention that these giant summons are strong enough to defeat Biju's, with mountain+ durability AND strength. thumb up

http://store3.up-00.com/July12/S0g05112.jpg

Itachi said that even with backup, they probably couldn't beat Jiraiya. He possibly didn't have the Yata mirror or Totsuka blade at that point, so he might have not been able to no matter what. Jiraiya's genjutsu pretty much gives him an insta win, as well as being able to get broken out of genjutsu because of Ma and Pa while he's in sage mode.

I've given proof with scans. You've shown an attacks name. Good job bro.

wakkawakkawakka
Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
So Hao starts the fight off decapitated? Okay, because he can only use the vaporize shit when he's headless, and since its destruction feats are garbage to half the shit in Naruto, he gets vaporized by Jiraiya who walks through it. Yes though, while under curse mark, he can't move AT ALL.

And? It doesn't matter if who he's fighting is much stronger and faster, and can jump just as high as well as summon giants that tall.

How is it out of context? Hao can only vaporize someone much weaker than him from sheer presence, and that will do nothing to someone much stronger than him. I already have. Hao can only suck out souls with that "black hole" move, and the sannin are vastly more than capable of destroying ACTUAL black holes, as witnessed with planetary devastation. thumb up

http://z.mhcdn.net/store/manga/5524/27-299.0/compressed/qm_t_sk_kzb299pg14_15.jpg?v=11248493143

Hmm, doesn't look like it's a "mini-sun" to me, if it's not even as hot as a volcano. thumb up

Never once did I state that. Speaking of which this is how Hao kills with his head cut off:
http://www.mangapanda.com/138-30753-24/shaman-king/chapter-297.html
http://www.mangapanda.com/138-30753-25/shaman-king/chapter-297.html

Also the who disintegrating weaker presences is a Bleach rule not a Shaman King one unless you can prove that as well.

Mind you that didn't require a black-hole at all. Also where did you get the idea that Chibaku Tensei uses black-holes? Nowhere in either canon or even the wiki's does it state that. Also prove that the curse seal works on dead people or those that have been decapitated. And who in the Sannin can jump as high as 50,000 ft while maneuvering around in the air?

So you're final attempts to low-ball the mini-sun have regressed to scaling it on size? Really? BTW that scan you posed shows a comet being used as a sword which is not a mini-sun. It even has the word "Comet" in big letters that you probably ignored.


Originally posted by SSJGGogeta

"You might as well say the same thing about Itachi.". How you got, "Orochimaru is stronger than Sasuke", I will never understand. Anyone with a brain can tell that Oro was ****ing with Naruto, just like Itachi was with Sasuke. thumb up

Right here, actually. You know, when Oro was "knocked on his ass", when in actuality, he put his head in the ground to surprise Naruto by stabbing him in the chest. Also, you know, Oro still has not even a single scratch. So he was obviously trying his best, right? thumb up

You didn't clarify in you first point. Also I never mentioned Sasuke until you brought him up

That still doesn't change the fact that Orochimaru was put on his ass to begin with. Orochimaru was also ripped in half and survived due to his regen which was also established however Hao can burn people w/o being near them so I'm not sure how that helps his case:http://www.mangapanda.com/93-299-11/naruto/chapter-294.html

Orochimaru's regen and body-shedding is what allowed him to survive for so long which won't help considering Hao's destructive power.


Originally posted by SSJGGogeta


Hm, looks like a genjutsu shield CAN prevent mind reading. Right after this happens, he says it's on par with a sannin's mental barrier. In the databooks, it even elaborates to the point of saying that every Anbu rank ninja has some type of mental barrier, although not anywhere near the level of this one.



And? What does that matter? Suigetsu can still EASILY be hit and killed by someone just punching him if they're strong enough. Actually though, Jiraiya DOES have this feat.


Easily tossing off a hundred-ton rinnegan enhanced ox. Not to mention that these giant summons are strong enough to defeat Biju's, with mountain+ durability AND strength. thumb up


You're the one who said genjutsu couldn't be compared with mental attacks. So essentially you proved yourself wrong, way to go. Oh and BTW the next panel would've been better for your argument considering that panel has nothing to do with the Sannin at all, I mean not even a little.

Suigetsu tanked the bijudama because he could liquefy his body and he happened to be around a large amount of water. He was also KO'd immediately after tanking the Bijudama. Jiraiya can't liquefy his body however Jiraiya has lost limbs and was stabbed: exactly how does that translate to blocking any of Hao's attack which have disintegrated people? Please include the question in your answer if you could.

Oh and since you bring it up, prove that Suigetsu can be beaten with blunt force w/o the benefits of lighting based attacks if you would.

Jiraiya's strength feat doesn't get you out of posting a feat for the Giant Rasengan. You mentioned it could kill Hao so I want some proof that it could kill him by showing me its destructive power...when used exclusively by Jiraiya so none of that power-scaling mess you like to do if you would. for an example of destructive power Hao has been shown to do this:
http://www.mangapanda.com/138-8013-15/shaman-king/chapter-261.html
http://www.mangapanda.com/138-8014-4/shaman-king/chapter-262.html

even one-shotting an island buster: http://www.mangapanda.com/138-8014-16/shaman-king/chapter-262.html

Prove that the Rinnegan summonings can take on Biju. Remember there are 9 of them and Nagato only has panel feats for fighting two Jinchuruki so you're options are limited.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Itachi said that even with backup, they probably couldn't beat Jiraiya. He possibly didn't have the Yata mirror or Totsuka blade at that point, so he might have not been able to no matter what. Jiraiya's genjutsu pretty much gives him an insta win, as well as being able to get broken out of genjutsu because of Ma and Pa while he's in sage mode.

I've given proof with scans. You've shown an attacks name. Good job bro.
Itachi never said Jiraiya could beat Akatsuki in that scan. Furthermore this still has nothing to do with Jiraiya's durability or on-panel destructive capabilities. Admittedly "Frog Song" is arguably the only hope the Sannin have for winning but even then that would only really work against pre-GS Hao. In addition Frog Song has a charge time which can and has been interrupted mid-way:
http://www.mangapanda.com/93-440-7/naruto/chapter-435.html

So just because the links I post aren't unnecessarily large pictures means that they don't count right? I've posted scans multiple times and you're choosing either to selectively read them or ignore them outright.

SSJGGogeta
Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
Never once did I state that. Speaking of which this is how Hao kills with his head cut off:
http://www.mangapanda.com/138-30753-24/shaman-king/chapter-297.html
http://www.mangapanda.com/138-30753-25/shaman-king/chapter-297.html

Also the who disintegrating weaker presences is a Bleach rule not a Shaman King one unless you can prove that as well.

Mind you that didn't require a black-hole at all. Also where did you get the idea that Chibaku Tensei uses black-holes? Nowhere in either canon or even the wiki's does it state that. Also prove that the curse seal works on dead people or those that have been decapitated. And who in the Sannin can jump as high as 50,000 ft while maneuvering around in the air?

So you're final attempts to low-ball the mini-sun have regressed to scaling it on size? Really? BTW that scan you posed shows a comet being used as a sword which is not a mini-sun. It even has the word "Comet" in big letters that you probably ignored.



You didn't clarify in you first point. Also I never mentioned Sasuke until you brought him up

That still doesn't change the fact that Orochimaru was put on his ass to begin with. Orochimaru was also ripped in half and survived due to his regen which was also established however Hao can burn people w/o being near them so I'm not sure how that helps his case:http://www.mangapanda.com/93-299-11/naruto/chapter-294.html

Orochimaru's regen and body-shedding is what allowed him to survive for so long which won't help considering Hao's destructive power.




You're the one who said genjutsu couldn't be compared with mental attacks. So essentially you proved yourself wrong, way to go. Oh and BTW the next panel would've been better for your argument considering that panel has nothing to do with the Sannin at all, I mean not even a little.

Suigetsu tanked the bijudama because he could liquefy his body and he happened to be around a large amount of water. He was also KO'd immediately after tanking the Bijudama. Jiraiya can't liquefy his body however Jiraiya has lost limbs and was stabbed: exactly how does that translate to blocking any of Hao's attack which have disintegrated people? Please include the question in your answer if you could.

Oh and since you bring it up, prove that Suigetsu can be beaten with blunt force w/o the benefits of lighting based attacks if you would.

Jiraiya's strength feat doesn't get you out of posting a feat for the Giant Rasengan. You mentioned it could kill Hao so I want some proof that it could kill him by showing me its destructive power...when used exclusively by Jiraiya so none of that power-scaling mess you like to do if you would. for an example of destructive power Hao has been shown to do this:
http://www.mangapanda.com/138-8013-15/shaman-king/chapter-261.html
http://www.mangapanda.com/138-8014-4/shaman-king/chapter-262.html

even one-shotting an island buster: http://www.mangapanda.com/138-8014-16/shaman-king/chapter-262.html

Prove that the Rinnegan summonings can take on Biju. Remember there are 9 of them and Nagato only has panel feats for fighting two Jinchuruki so you're options are limited.


Itachi never said Jiraiya could beat Akatsuki in that scan. Furthermore this still has nothing to do with Jiraiya's durability or on-panel destructive capabilities. Admittedly "Frog Song" is arguably the only hope the Sannin have for winning but even then that would only really work against pre-GS Hao. In addition Frog Song has a charge time which can and has been interrupted mid-way:
http://www.mangapanda.com/93-440-7/naruto/chapter-435.html

So just because the links I post aren't unnecessarily large pictures means that they don't count right? I've posted scans multiple times and you're choosing either to selectively read them or ignore them outright.

Actually, you did. You said "So...you serious about the Curse Seal working on a decapitated head?", when no one argued that Hao would be getting decapitated in this specific fight. The fact that curse seal has never been used on a decapitated head means only that. Not that it won't work, which we obviously have to assume it will.

Exactly, but Hao can't disintegrate someone stronger than him, dumb ass.

Mind you that it did. I got the FACT that Planetary devastation uses a black hole created from chakra from the Data books. Prove that curse seal doesn't work on a decapitated person, since you're the one claiming it won't. Any of them, while using their summons. Not to mention they're all dozens of times faster than Hao.

Um, actually you harlot, they use the "comet" to block the "volcano", emanating from the "sun". That's when they said that it's heat was nowhere near the actual thing. Therefor, the "sun" is not even close to as hot as a volcano. thumb up

I actually did, as I just proved. Refer to my previous post.

Yes it does, retard. Orochimaru got "knocked on his ass" to trick Naruto. The Biju bomb obviously did nothing, since Oro wasn't even scratched. thumb up Hao still can't burn Oro with heat that can't compare to a volcano, so Oro tanks it while laughing.

Hao can't do shit to Oro, considering he tanked a biju bomb without getting scratched, and the fact that Hao is a building buster, while Biju bomb is casual mountain busting.

That's not true, stop being a liar. I said that Genjutsu =/= Mind reading, which is true. However, Genjutsu can be used as a shield against mind reading. Which is what all the sannin have, making Hao unable to read their minds. thumb up

You might as well ask how Naruto could beat Aizen, because he's disintegrated people. That has nothing to do with this. Hao's destruction feats are nowhere NEAR Jiraiya's destruction OR durability feats. Jiraiya = Casual mountain range durability and Mountain level destruction. Hao = Boulder level durability and multi-house level destruction. Hao gets shat on. thumb up

How about when Sasuke casually one panneled Suigetsu AND Jugo at the same time with simple shadow snake jutsu? That proves it perfectly.

My proof that Rinnegan summonings can take on biju is that they took on and defeated Jiraiya's second strongest frog summon. Gamabunta was able to defeat Shukaku, the one tails, without Jiraiya. Gama(something) was just under Gamabunta in strength, and just Pein's multi-headed dog was enough to beat him. Not to mention the fact that Nagato's summons took on Killer Bee AND Naruto at the same time, two mastered Jinchuriki, without getting touched until Itachi saved them.

Did you not see the scan?

http://store3.up-00.com/July12/S0g05112.jpg

Itachi CLEARLY states that even with backup, Jiraiya would still probably beat him and Kisame. Therefor, his durability and strength are above anyone in the akatsuki. The akatsuki that go around tanking and dishing out biju level + attacks and durability.

Again, Hao has no destruction feats or durability feats even close to Jiraiya's. This is a stomp.

wakkawakkawakka
Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Actually, you did. You said "So...you serious about the Curse Seal working on a decapitated head?", when no one argued that Hao would be getting decapitated in this specific fight. The fact that curse seal has never been used on a decapitated head means only that. Not that it won't work, which we obviously have to assume it will.

Exactly, but Hao can't disintegrate someone stronger than him, dumb ass.

Mind you that it did. I got the FACT that Planetary devastation uses a black hole created from chakra from the Data books. Prove that curse seal doesn't work on a decapitated person, since you're the one claiming it won't. Any of them, while using their summons. Not to mention they're all dozens of times faster than Hao.

Um, actually you harlot, they use the "comet" to block the "volcano", emanating from the "sun". That's when they said that it's heat was nowhere near the actual thing. Therefor, the "sun" is not even close to as hot as a volcano. thumb up

I actually did, as I just proved. Refer to my previous post.

Yes it does, retard. Orochimaru got "knocked on his ass" to trick Naruto. The Biju bomb obviously did nothing, since Oro wasn't even scratched. thumb up Hao still can't burn Oro with heat that can't compare to a volcano, so Oro tanks it while laughing.

Hao can't do shit to Oro, considering he tanked a biju bomb without getting scratched, and the fact that Hao is a building buster, while Biju bomb is casual mountain busting.

That's not true, stop being a liar. I said that Genjutsu =/= Mind reading, which is true. However, Genjutsu can be used as a shield against mind reading. Which is what all the sannin have, making Hao unable to read their minds. thumb up

You might as well ask how Naruto could beat Aizen, because he's disintegrated people. That has nothing to do with this. Hao's destruction feats are nowhere NEAR Jiraiya's destruction OR durability feats. Jiraiya = Casual mountain range durability and Mountain level destruction. Hao = Boulder level durability and multi-house level destruction. Hao gets shat on. thumb up

How about when Sasuke casually one panneled Suigetsu AND Jugo at the same time with simple shadow snake jutsu? That proves it perfectly.

My proof that Rinnegan summonings can take on biju is that they took on and defeated Jiraiya's second strongest frog summon. Gamabunta was able to defeat Shukaku, the one tails, without Jiraiya. Gama(something) was just under Gamabunta in strength, and just Pein's multi-headed dog was enough to beat him. Not to mention the fact that Nagato's summons took on Killer Bee AND Naruto at the same time, two mastered Jinchuriki, without getting touched until Itachi saved them.

Did you not see the scan?


Itachi CLEARLY states that even with backup, Jiraiya would still probably beat him and Kisame. Therefor, his durability and strength are above anyone in the akatsuki. The akatsuki that go around tanking and dishing out biju level + attacks and durability.

Again, Hao has no destruction feats or durability feats even close to Jiraiya's. This is a stomp.

I never once stated that Hao would start this fight off in that condition. Point out a statement where I specifically stated those words. Oh and Hao can still soul absorb(instant-kill) w/o having his head cut off:
http://www.mangapanda.com/138-30753-17/shaman-king/chapter-297.html
http://www.mangapanda.com/138-30753-18/shaman-king/chapter-297.html
http://www.mangapanda.com/138-30753-19/shaman-king/chapter-297.html

That shouldn't be a problem here since the Sannin aren't stronger than him. Also prove the Hao can't disintergrate them please.

Panel feats take precedence over Databook numbers here in KMC unless they include quantifiable measurements you should know this by now. But to humor you, could you direct me to a panel where the Databook says "Chibaku Tensei uses black holes" because that would really help prove your point.

So your not denying that it still happened. Good to know, oh and I've mentioned and showed you multiple times that Orochimaru used a shield which does not count as his own durability or maybe showing you the scan of Orochimaru getting ripped in half "again" would dissuade you form claiming that Orochimaru can tank mountain busters with his own durability:
http://www.mangapanda.com/93-299-11/naruto/chapter-294.html

What volcano? Where in that fight does it say anything about a volcano? You can't actually prove a "negative" so you've decided to low-ball what's been presented on panel. Oh and this right here, "Therefor, the "sun" is not even close to as hot as a volcano. " Are you consciously aware of what you just posted?

The original post is still there and has no mention of Sasuke so no it wasn't really clear.

But in your scan you just proved that genjutsu barriers can be put up to counter mind reading which still shows comparisons between the two and still show that minf reading can affect and be affected by genjutsu. Oh and BTW I'm still waiting for you to show me the Sannin resisting mind-reading.

I showed you Hao taking on an island buster along with an entire modernized naval force. Now its your turn to show me Jiraiya mountain busting or the equivalent or its simply not true.

Oh and if you were referring to this panel:
http://www.mangapanda.com/93-356-12/naruto/chapter-351.html

You're neglecting three things. One Sasuke had intimidated them by showing them his killer intent on top of Orochimaru's powers, two Sasuke is a well know Raiton user and I specifically asked for examples where Suigetsu could be hurt by blunt force, and three Suigetsu didn't even try to liquefy his body in that panel therefore providing inconclusive showings that he would've died by non-Raiton means. See I'm doing your work for you...that's not right man.

Gamabunta didn't beat the Shukaku, technically Naruto did with a head-butt. In fact Gamabunta had trouble keeping up with it and even had difficulty grappling Shukaku do to not having claws. Oh and none of the animals Nagato summoned neither beat not significantly challenged the jinchuruki at all. Find me a scan that proves otherwise because I already found one of yours for you.


With backup =/= entire Akatsuki organization. Even if Itachi had said that, it would still be wrong because Nagato killed Jiraiya: remember Nagato(Pein) is a member of the Akatsuki.

I've answered that so many times this entire page is full of examples of Hao's power.

SSJGGogeta
Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
I never once stated that Hao would start this fight off in that condition. Point out a statement where I specifically stated those words. Oh and Hao can still soul absorb(instant-kill) w/o having his head cut off:
http://www.mangapanda.com/138-30753-17/shaman-king/chapter-297.html
http://www.mangapanda.com/138-30753-18/shaman-king/chapter-297.html
http://www.mangapanda.com/138-30753-19/shaman-king/chapter-297.html

That shouldn't be a problem here since the Sannin aren't stronger than him. Also prove the Hao can't disintergrate them please.

Panel feats take precedence over Databook numbers here in KMC unless they include quantifiable measurements you should know this by now. But to humor you, could you direct me to a panel where the Databook says "Chibaku Tensei uses black holes" because that would really help prove your point.

So your not denying that it still happened. Good to know, oh and I've mentioned and showed you multiple times that Orochimaru used a shield which does not count as his own durability or maybe showing you the scan of Orochimaru getting ripped in half "again" would dissuade you form claiming that Orochimaru can tank mountain busters with his own durability:
http://www.mangapanda.com/93-299-11/naruto/chapter-294.html

What volcano? Where in that fight does it say anything about a volcano? You can't actually prove a "negative" so you've decided to low-ball what's been presented on panel. Oh and this right here, "Therefor, the "sun" is not even close to as hot as a volcano. " Are you consciously aware of what you just posted?

The original post is still there and has no mention of Sasuke so no it wasn't really clear.

But in your scan you just proved that genjutsu barriers can be put up to counter mind reading which still shows comparisons between the two and still show that minf reading can affect and be affected by genjutsu. Oh and BTW I'm still waiting for you to show me the Sannin resisting mind-reading.

I showed you Hao taking on an island buster along with an entire modernized naval force. Now its your turn to show me Jiraiya mountain busting or the equivalent or its simply not true.

Oh and if you were referring to this panel:
http://www.mangapanda.com/93-356-12/naruto/chapter-351.html

You're neglecting three things. One Sasuke had intimidated them by showing them his killer intent on top of Orochimaru's powers, two Sasuke is a well know Raiton user and I specifically asked for examples where Suigetsu could be hurt by blunt force, and three Suigetsu didn't even try to liquefy his body in that panel therefore providing inconclusive showings that he would've died by non-Raiton means. See I'm doing your work for you...that's not right man.

Gamabunta didn't beat the Shukaku, technically Naruto did with a head-butt. In fact Gamabunta had trouble keeping up with it and even had difficulty grappling Shukaku do to not having claws. Oh and none of the animals Nagato summoned neither beat not significantly challenged the jinchuruki at all. Find me a scan that proves otherwise because I already found one of yours for you.


With backup =/= entire Akatsuki organization. Even if Itachi had said that, it would still be wrong because Nagato killed Jiraiya: remember Nagato(Pein) is a member of the Akatsuki.

I've answered that so many times this entire page is full of examples of Hao's power.

"So...you serious about the Curse Seal working on a decapitated head?". Again, this is saying SPECIFICALLY that Hao is going to be decapitated against the three sannin, so I assumed you meant either A. The sannin would cut his head off, or B. He, for some reason, starts the fight off headless. You ****ed up. Plain and simple. thumb up

Liar. You didn't show a previous scan.

http://i25.mangapanda.com/shaman-king/297/shaman-king-735347.jpg

Hao killed them AND THEN absorbed their souls.

That SHOULD be a problem, since I've already proven that the Sannin are MUCH stronger than Hao. Again, they can deal with mountain range busting attacks like Biju bomb, something with destructive capacity that makes all of Hao's attacks look like garbage.

Exactly. However, how about you first point me to ANYTHING even SUGGESTING that Hao's techniques are more than just named fancily.

What does him getting bisected have to do with anything? Frieza tanked HUNDREDS of planet busting attacks without getting scratched, but got bisected in the end by his own attack, simply because it was meant to slice, not vaporize. Are you saying that he can't take planet busters, just because he was bisected by something that wouldn't have destroyed the planet? Again, Oro tanked a mountain range busting biju bomb, even though he used Rashoman, that still counts as durability, since he can summon it to block attacks.

Here, I'll post the scan again, since you deliberately want to ignore it for the sole fact that it completely debunks your entire argument.

http://z.mhcdn.net/store/manga/5524/27-299.0/compressed/qm_t_sk_kzb299pg14_15.jpg?v=11248493143

They clearly use the comet streak to block the "mini sun" flames, and it creates a "volcano", which they say is nowhere near the actual heat of a volcano, meaning that even the mini sun isn't even as hot as a volcano. In other words, it's something that Naruto characters can casually tank while giggling.

I don't have to. I've already shown weaker characters with mind reading resistance, and the scan where it says the Pain's genjutsu barrier is on the level of a sannin's.

"I showed you Hao taking on an island buster along with an entire modernized naval force. Now its your turn to show me Jiraiya mountain busting or the equivalent or its simply not true.", No you didn't. There is no one in all of Shaman king who has island busted. Again, Hao's best feats are city block busting, while weaker characters in Naruto than the Sannin have mountain range busting feats.

You didn't find a scan of mine for me. You simply recognized what I was saying about Sasuke. Again though, Sasuke casually restrained Juugo AND Suigetsu by physical means, proving that Suigetsu can be at the very least affected by physical means. Also, don't forget when Suigetsu's brother, with the same abilities but to a stronger extent, was defeated by the team of ninja with Sakura.

No, Naruto woke Gaara up. Gamabunta defeated Shukaku by being able to keep him busy while Naruto tried to beat Gaara. Gamabunta needed to hold Shukaku, so Naruto could reach Gaara, but he's a frog and doesn't have hands or claws. Either way, he still fought on par with an enraged Shukaku for a long time.

Here's when Nagato's summon fought with a jinchuriki. Beat it, actually.

http://i8.mangapanda.com/naruto/550/naruto-2528681.jpg

Not to mention that earlier, Naruto needed Itachi to use Amaterasu to kill Nagato's multi-headed dog summon.

I showed the scan. He said "even with backup, the odds would still be the same.", meaning Jiraiya would beat them along with the akatsuki at once if they all fought at once.

Don't forget this scan.

http://i54.tinypic.com/1zn7dpu.png

Pain SPECIFICALLY STATES that if they had fought Jiraiya with all the Pain's at once, they would have NEVER won. They only won because they sneak-attacked him, and they graciously admitted that. However, in a fair fight with the entire akatsuki, where they all know each others abilities, Jiraiya would have won.

Exactly, and Hao's powers do not surpass multi-building/small city block busting. I've proven over and over again that sannin powers are mountain range level.

wakkawakkawakka
Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
"So...you serious about the Curse Seal working on a decapitated head?". Again, this is saying SPECIFICALLY that Hao is going to be decapitated against the three sannin, so I assumed you meant either A. The sannin would cut his head off, or B. He, for some reason, starts the fight off headless. You ****ed up. Plain and simple. thumb up

Liar. You didn't show a previous scan.

http://i25.mangapanda.com/shaman-king/297/shaman-king-735347.jpg

Hao killed them AND THEN absorbed their souls.

That SHOULD be a problem, since I've already proven that the Sannin are MUCH stronger than Hao. Again, they can deal with mountain range busting attacks like Biju bomb, something with destructive capacity that makes all of Hao's attacks look like garbage.

Exactly. However, how about you first point me to ANYTHING even SUGGESTING that Hao's techniques are more than just named fancily.

What does him getting bisected have to do with anything? Again, Oro tanked a mountain range busting biju bomb, even though he used Rashoman, that still counts as durability, since he can summon it to block attacks.

Here, I'll post the scan again, since you deliberately want to ignore it for the sole fact that it completely debunks your entire argument.

http://z.mhcdn.net/store/manga/5524/27-299.0/compressed/qm_t_sk_kzb299pg14_15.jpg?v=11248493143

They clearly use the comet streak to block the "mini sun" flames, and it creates a "volcano", which they say is nowhere near the actual heat of a volcano, meaning that even the mini sun isn't even as hot as a volcano. In other words, it's something that Naruto characters can casually tank while giggling.

I don't have to. I've already shown weaker characters with mind reading resistance, and the scan where it says the Pain's genjutsu barrier is on the level of a sannin's.

"I showed you Hao taking on an island buster along with an entire modernized naval force. Now its your turn to show me Jiraiya mountain busting or the equivalent or its simply not true.", No you didn't. There is no one in all of Shaman king who has island busted. Again, Hao's best feats are city block busting, while weaker characters in Naruto than the Sannin have mountain range busting feats.

You didn't find a scan of mine for me. You simply recognized what I was saying about Sasuke. Again though, Sasuke casually restrained Juugo AND Suigetsu by physical means, proving that Suigetsu can be at the very least affected by physical means. Also, don't forget when Suigetsu's brother, with the same abilities but to a stronger extent, was defeated by the team of ninja with Sakura.

No, Naruto woke Gaara up. Gamabunta defeated Shukaku by being able to keep him busy while Naruto tried to beat Gaara. Gamabunta needed to hold Shukaku, so Naruto could reach Gaara, but he's a frog and doesn't have hands or claws. Either way, he still fought on par with an enraged Shukaku for a long time.

Here's when Nagato's summon fought with a jinchuriki. Beat it, actually.

http://i8.mangapanda.com/naruto/550/naruto-2528681.jpg

Not to mention that earlier, Naruto needed Itachi to use Amaterasu to kill Nagato's multi-headed dog summon.

I showed the scan. He said "even with backup, the odds would still be the same.", meaning Jiraiya would beat them along with the akatsuki at once if they all fought at once.

Don't forget this scan.

http://i54.tinypic.com/1zn7dpu.png

Pain SPECIFICALLY STATES that if they had fought Jiraiya with all the Pain's at once, they would have NEVER won. They only won because they sneak-attacked him, and they graciously admitted that. However, in a fair fight with the entire akatsuki, where they all know each others abilities, Jiraiya would have won.





Point out where in that sentence do I specifically state that "Hao starts the fight off decapitated". Point out those exact word in the quote you just posted. Find it word for word where I posted that. Also my question still stands concerning how exactly is a curse seal going to work on a body w/o a head.

Again you're going to ignore not 1 or two but four scan showing how Hao's soul absorpsion worked. Or is this just an attempt to have the last word. Nonetheless because I'm nice like that I'll post the exact four scans you blatantly ignored again in addition to two more scans that still shows the exact same point of Hao being able to instan kill people with soul absorpsion regardless of the condition of his body:
http://www.mangapanda.com/138-30753-16/shaman-king/chapter-297.html
http://www.mangapanda.com/138-30753-18/shaman-king/chapter-297.html
http://www.mangapanda.com/138-30753-19/shaman-king/chapter-297.html
http://www.mangapanda.com/138-30753-24/shaman-king/chapter-297.html
http://www.mangapanda.com/138-30753-25/shaman-king/chapter-297.html

You haven't shown any scans or link to interview where Kishimoto might have said as much. Heck you haven't even pull up something from the Databook that you yourself said that the Chibaku Tensei feat comes from. Oh and since you pointed it out so clearly last time, I guess you wouldn't mind answering the question in full as to how the Sannin do not get disintegrated. I'll even help you out in forming a potential answer to the question: "Hao will not disintegrate the sannin because of these feats(insert feats including panels here)"

No that's not what it means. Okay since your so found of example I'll give you one of my own: say for instance someone like Captain America blocks an attack from someone like Thor who is much stronger than Captain America thanks to a shield that absorbs vibrations and kinetic energy. Would you still say that Captain America was durable enough to take a hit from Thor w/o the shield? Of course not and that's exactly what happened here the only difference being the shield Orochimaru used and the power behind the attacks

Unless of course you're inclined to show me a durability feat Orochimaru has that would warrant that he could've taken a biju ball w/o Rashoman. Matter of fact "Can you show me a durability feat from Orochimaru where he tanks a mountain buster or the equivalent w/o any form of outside shielding?" Should be easy enough for you since you claim that Orochimaru has mountain busting durability right?

Though it did bring insight as to what the volcano was, you heavily misinterpreted that feat. Lyserg was the one to create the volcano to cancel out the comet blade in that panel and they group was referring to the comet tail's heat. Also think in sense of pacing as to how much sense it would make for a volcano to form from blocking a comet blade. Heck Lyserg even says "too close" in the scan indicating that he's the one who's blocking it.

You never posted the exact scan stating that Pein's mental block were equal to a Sannin: to be specific you posted the scan preceding.

Keeping at bay is not the same as defeating. Also Gamabunta never significantly damaged Shukaku in that fight. Since Naruto was the one to wake Gaara up he was able to cause the Shukaku to relinquish control which does count as a victory. Furthermore define "a long time".

I said prove that Suigestu could be beaten by physical means though I am inclined to just give you that one considering the snake did indeed grab him and the fact that I'm a good sport. Then again while he was tagged he was never actually hurt by the snake nor has he been showed to be hurt by object or attacks not infused with Raiton.

Also the island buster was confirmed as canon in the manga just as Kagura is pretty much confirmed as the single most powerful entity in Naruto or how Enel destroyed his home island. We didn't need to see feats from these cases considering the series confirms them as true. The best you can do is claim that the island busters capabilities were inconclusive: see I'm doing you job for you...again.

You've yet to show a destructive feats the Sannin can do that matches Hao decimating a modernized naval force BTW.


As for the Nagato scan, he didn't summon anything animals using his path powers. He used Preta path to absord Bee's chakra and Human path to try and kill Naruto: both of these are Path powers and are not summons.

For future reference you might want to post the scan you're referring to especially when the posted your debating with requests them over and over again. Take the Itachi thing for instance, even though he was the one to kill it neither Naruto nor Bee were significantly impaired by the summons themselves. Oh and would like to point out once again that none of the Animal Path summons actually fought a Biju on panel.

Doesn't change the fact that Jiraiya was killed by an Akatsuki member regardless of the circumstance which proves Itachi's initial statement wrong. Even if Jiraiya by some miracle was able to beat Pein, the fact that he had so much trouble in the first place proves that he wouldn't take out the entire Akatsuki organization. Even though Pein states that he would've lost w/o a sneak attack, there is still reason to doubt that considering he was able to beat Naruto in the first round even though Naruto not only had prep but full knowledge of how the Paths operated: remind you this was when his best Path was out of commission for several minutes due to the toll of Shinra Tensei.

You haven't proven anything. All you've done so far is ignore an misinterpret scans that disagree with your view all the while neglecting to show scans of anything of significant that you claim the Sannin are capable of. Oh! You've also scaled characters incorrectly(scaling to begin with isn't favorable unless states as fact or shown later in the series) and show scans of statements that have been debunked by later chapters in the manga.

BloodRain
Cba reading though all this, but I can't see the Jiraiya hype from Nagato.

Jiraiya states that 4 tails Naruto almost killed him, and we're shown that 4 tails was more powerful than Orochimaru and killed him around 3 times if not for regen. Even if it wasnt a long or proper fight, one Path still managed to fair off better.

SSJGGogeta
Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
Point out where in that sentence do I specifically state that "Hao starts the fight off decapitated". Point out those exact word in the quote you just posted. Find it word for word where I posted that. Also my question still stands concerning how exactly is a curse seal going to work on a body w/o a head.

Again you're going to ignore not 1 or two but four scan showing how Hao's soul absorpsion worked. Or is this just an attempt to have the last word. Nonetheless because I'm nice like that I'll post the exact four scans you blatantly ignored again in addition to two more scans that still shows the exact same point of Hao being able to instan kill people with soul absorpsion regardless of the condition of his body:
http://www.mangapanda.com/138-30753-16/shaman-king/chapter-297.html
http://www.mangapanda.com/138-30753-18/shaman-king/chapter-297.html
http://www.mangapanda.com/138-30753-19/shaman-king/chapter-297.html
http://www.mangapanda.com/138-30753-24/shaman-king/chapter-297.html
http://www.mangapanda.com/138-30753-25/shaman-king/chapter-297.html

You haven't shown any scans or link to interview where Kishimoto might have said as much. Heck you haven't even pull up something from the Databook that you yourself said that the Chibaku Tensei feat comes from. Oh and since you pointed it out so clearly last time, I guess you wouldn't mind answering the question in full as to how the Sannin do not get disintegrated. I'll even help you out in forming a potential answer to the question: "Hao will not disintegrate the sannin because of these feats(insert feats including panels here)"

No that's not what it means. Okay since your so found of example I'll give you one of my own: say for instance someone like Captain America blocks an attack from someone like Thor who is much stronger than Captain America thanks to a shield that absorbs vibrations and kinetic energy. Would you still say that Captain America was durable enough to take a hit from Thor w/o the shield? Of course not and that's exactly what happened here the only difference being the shield Orochimaru used and the power behind the attacks

Unless of course you're inclined to show me a durability feat Orochimaru has that would warrant that he could've taken a biju ball w/o Rashoman. Matter of fact "Can you show me a durability feat from Orochimaru where he tanks a mountain buster or the equivalent w/o any form of outside shielding?" Should be easy enough for you since you claim that Orochimaru has mountain busting durability right?

Though it did bring insight as to what the volcano was, you heavily misinterpreted that feat. Lyserg was the one to create the volcano to cancel out the comet blade in that panel and they group was referring to the comet tail's heat. Also think in sense of pacing as to how much sense it would make for a volcano to form from blocking a comet blade. Heck Lyserg even says "too close" in the scan indicating that he's the one who's blocking it.

You never posted the exact scan stating that Pein's mental block were equal to a Sannin: to be specific you posted the scan preceding.

Keeping at bay is not the same as defeating. Also Gamabunta never significantly damaged Shukaku in that fight. Since Naruto was the one to wake Gaara up he was able to cause the Shukaku to relinquish control which does count as a victory. Furthermore define "a long time".

I said prove that Suigestu could be beaten by physical means though I am inclined to just give you that one considering the snake did indeed grab him and the fact that I'm a good sport. Then again while he was tagged he was never actually hurt by the snake nor has he been showed to be hurt by object or attacks not infused with Raiton.

Also the island buster was confirmed as canon in the manga just as Kagura is pretty much confirmed as the single most powerful entity in Naruto or how Enel destroyed his home island. We didn't need to see feats from these cases considering the series confirms them as true. The best you can do is claim that the island busters capabilities were inconclusive: see I'm doing you job for you...again.

You've yet to show a destructive feats the Sannin can do that matches Hao decimating a modernized naval force BTW.


As for the Nagato scan, he didn't summon anything animals using his path powers. He used Preta path to absord Bee's chakra and Human path to try and kill Naruto: both of these are Path powers and are not summons.

For future reference you might want to post the scan you're referring to especially when the posted your debating with requests them over and over again. Take the Itachi thing for instance, even though he was the one to kill it neither Naruto nor Bee were significantly impaired by the summons themselves. Oh and would like to point out once again that none of the Animal Path summons actually fought a Biju on panel.

Doesn't change the fact that Jiraiya was killed by an Akatsuki member regardless of the circumstance which proves Itachi's initial statement wrong. Even if Jiraiya by some miracle was able to beat Pein, the fact that he had so much trouble in the first place proves that he wouldn't take out the entire Akatsuki organization. Even though Pein states that he would've lost w/o a sneak attack, there is still reason to doubt that considering he was able to beat Naruto in the first round even though Naruto not only had prep but full knowledge of how the Paths operated: remind you this was when his best Path was out of commission for several minutes due to the toll of Shinra Tensei.

You haven't proven anything. All you've done so far is ignore an misinterpret scans that disagree with your view all the while neglecting to show scans of anything of significant that you claim the Sannin are capable of.


I don't need to, Douche Bigalow. You insinuated Hao starts the fight off decapitated, otherwise that entire argument is meaningless. Also, my answer still stands, that it would work the same way it does against a non-headless person, as we have nothing to suggest otherwise.

You've shown those, but again, you're neglecting the SOLE FACT that Yoh SPECIFICALLY STATES "Hao KILLED THEM, AND THEN ABSORBED THEIR SOULS", meaning he used the vaporizing technique, or some other attack, and THEN absorbed their dead souls. Again though, none of his feats are on par with the Sannin destruction/durability feats, so one last time. Hao gets shat on. thumb up

You have to buy a databook to see it. Nagato uses his chakra to make a black hole with his rinnegan that's solid on the outside, which is why he can create moons with their own gravitational pulls. They will not get disintegrated the same way Ichigo didn't. Since you gave me help, here you go: "Hao will not disintegrate the sannin because of these feats

http://i38.mangapanda.com/naruto/294/naruto-1568286.jpg

http://i25.mangapanda.com/naruto/588/naruto-3338725.jpg

http://i25.mangapanda.com/naruto/170/naruto-3350.jpg

And last but not least,

http://i38.mangapanda.com/naruto/375/naruto-1569191.jpg

There, all feats of regen or durability that PROVE INDISPUTABLY that Hao can NOT harm the sannin in any way, shape or form.

No, which is obvious. However, it STILL STANDS, that Captain America, AND Oro both have their shields no matter what, meaning that YES, THEY CAN BOTH TANK THOR'S HAMMER/BIJU BOMB, respectively.

HE DOESN'T NEED TO. He has the shields, therefor he can block mountain range level attacks without being scratched by them. Period.

No, it's YOU who's misinterpreted the feat. The mech that isn't Hao's is the one that made the comet. Also, dumb ass, comets don't exert ANY heat, as they and their tails are made from solely ice and gas. Yes, it would make sense, because the "sun" was cooled down by the "comet", making it a "volcano". If you knew anything about astronomy, this would be the simplest concept to grasp.

But Shukaku didn't damage Bunta either, and Bunta actually landed several jutsu's because they were stronger than Shukaku's. Again, the summons Nagato uses are Biju level.

But again, his brother HAS been hurt with physical attacks, despite being more proficient in said water techniques. The only difference is that we've never seen Suigetsu fighting strong non-raiton users. Sakura would DEMOLISH Suigetsu.

Doing my job? Why don't you stick to your own first, and show a SINGLE THING IN ALL OF SHAMAN KING, that points to ANY character in it being island level?

You've yet to show Hao "decimating a modernized naval force BTW.", so again... Get to it. Not to mention that tanking and throwing around mountain range level attacks would destroy ANY modern military force in seconds.

His summons ARE path powers, idiot. How is Naruto being incapable of defeating one of Nagato's summons, even while using some of his strongest attacks, NOT doing exactly that?

First off, Naruto was restricted by ONE of Nagato's summons, and unable to break free from it's tongue. Secondly, Nagato's summons fought Jiraiya's summons, which DID fight Biju on panel.

How's that? Pain SPECIFICALLY STATED that without a sneak attack, he would have DEFINITELY lost. Itachi's statement still stands, unless the backup came weeks later to sneak up on Jiraiya when he was relaxing. Except Jiraiya was WAY stronger than Naruto. Naruto only won because he knew how almost all of the Pain's operated. Again, the statements still stand, as nothing has disproved them.

What?! You couldn't be more delusional. All you've done is misinterpret attack names for their real life counterparts, and make baseless assumptions as to your favorite characters abilities. You're literally just making shit up, and saying I'M the one who's done nothing.

SSJGGogeta
Originally posted by BloodRain
Cba reading though all this, but I can't see the Jiraiya hype from Nagato.

Jiraiya states that 4 tails Naruto almost killed him, and we're shown that 4 tails was more powerful than Orochimaru and killed him around 3 times if not for regen. Even if it wasnt a long or proper fight, one Path still managed to fair off better.

Yeah, but Jiraiya most likely had no idea what was happening to Naruto, and probably thought he still had some sense of rationality like he does in every form before the fourth tail. Also, Oro was toying with Naruto the whole time, and since he has regen, he... has regen. One path? What are you even referring to?

wakkawakkawakka
Okay so since you ignore the essay posts, I'll be brief this time and try to address key points. Hao has lightspeed reaction feats, the ability to transmute elements, flights at hypersonic speeds, the ability to disintegrate people on contact, soul absorb, an even the ability to take out a modernized naval force and catch missiles:
http://www.mangapanda.com/138-8014-2/shaman-king/chapter-262.html
http://www.mangapanda.com/138-8014-5/shaman-king/chapter-262.html


Shield durability =/= own durability which is what I've been tryng to convey with Orochimaru. Regardless of necessity I'm asking whether or not you are capable of showing me Orochimaru tanking a mountain buster w/o a shield. This is a yes(with panels supporting it) or no question

Can't believe it took you this long to post feats for the Sannin. Yet for reasons found on this page I can conclude that none of the scans you posted match what Hao can do based on what I've already posted.

To clarify the comet feat, both the wiki and the manga panels show that Hao is the one who made and swung the comet sword. For clarification here's Hao making the comet:
http://www.mangapanda.com/138-30755-12/shaman-king/chapter-299.html

Also none of what you posted shows any of the Sannin mountain busting or tanking mountain buster. Along with this Jiraiya's fire jutsu would be less than useless here and what ever happened to that Giant Rasengan you mention all that time ago? Don't think I just forgot.

Suigetsu is not his brother and should not be compare to his brother who doesn't have feats. Gamabunta didn't significantly damage the Shukaku therefore has no evidence supporting the notion that it could actually beat it.

Nagato's Path powers are not summons unless you can provide a statement or a scan showing me that they are summons. You mentioned it so you have to prove it.

The fact that Jiraiya's dead proves the notion that he could've beating all of Akatsuki wrong and that's still assuming that's what Itachi actually meant by back up.

Naruto had prep, knowledge of how the Paths work, and a far more powerful attack than Jiraiya's best jutsu and still lost to Pein in the first round. Leading me to conclude that even with knowledge and prep Pein could have still significantly injured Jiraiya if not killed him as soundly as he did the first time.

Choosing to ignore links and statements doesn't make the links any less valid.
http://www.mangapanda.com/138-8014-5/shaman-king/chapter-262.html

SSJGGogeta
Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
Okay so since you ignore the essay posts, I'll be brief this time and try to address key points. Hao has lightspeed reaction feats, the ability to transmute elements, flights at hypersonic speeds, the ability to disintegrate people on contact, soul absorb, an even the ability to take out a modernized naval force and catch missiles:
http://www.mangapanda.com/138-8014-2/shaman-king/chapter-262.html
http://www.mangapanda.com/138-8014-5/shaman-king/chapter-262.html


Shield durability =/= own durability which is what I've been tryng to convey with Orochimaru. Regardless of necessity I'm asking whether or not you are capable of showing me Orochimaru tanking a mountain buster w/o a shield. This is a yes(with panels supporting it) or no question

Can't believe it took you this long to post feats for the Sannin. Yet for reasons found on this page I can conclude that none of the scans you posted match what Hao can do based on what I've already posted.

To clarify the comet feat, both the wiki and the manga panels show that Hao is the one who made and swung the comet sword. For clarification here's Hao making the comet:
http://www.mangapanda.com/138-30755-12/shaman-king/chapter-299.html

Also none of what you posted shows any of the Sannin mountain busting or tanking mountain buster. Along with this Jiraiya's fire jutsu would be less than useless here and what ever happened to that Giant Rasengan you mention all that time ago? Don't think I just forgot.

Suigetsu is not his brother and should not be compare to his brother who doesn't have feats. Gamabunta didn't significantly damage the Shukaku therefore has no evidence supporting the notion that it could actually beat it.

Nagato's Path powers are not summons unless you can provide a statement or a scan showing me that they are summons. You mentioned it so you have to prove it.

The fact that Jiraiya's dead proves the notion that he could've beating all of Akatsuki wrong and that's still assuming that's what Itachi actually meant by back up.

Naruto had prep, knowledge of how the Paths work, and a far more powerful attack than Jiraiya's best jutsu and still lost to Pein in the first round. Leading me to conclude that even with knowledge and prep Pein could have still significantly injured Jiraiya if not killed him as soundly as he did the first time.

Choosing to ignore links and statements doesn't make the links any less valid.
http://www.mangapanda.com/138-8014-5/shaman-king/chapter-262.html

Again, you're doing exactly what you accused me of doing. You're giving him powers without proving them. You gave scans of him catching and throwing back missiles. Anyone in anime can do that, even Kakashi did that against one of the Pain's with a much more powerful type of missile. Light speed? Where? Show me ONE scan that puts him anywhere NEAR a tenth of light speed. Not to mention that a Biju bomb is VASTLY more powerful than a modern torpedo, which is around a small house's level, whereas a Biju bomb is mountain range+ level. Also, you can't catch a biju bomb, as it'll blow up as soon as you touch it unless you wave it away, which Han could never even dream of doing.

Whatever. My point is that he always has the shield, meaning he can block anything that Hao throws at him a hundred times over without even feeling it.

Yeah, and you still haven't posted feats for Hao that even compare to what I posted, or what you claimed he's capable of.

No, to clarify the feat, here's this scan before what you posted.

http://i39.mangapanda.com/shaman-king/299/shaman-king-735403.jpg

So you're telling me that HoroHoro and Chocolove are Hao, now? They are the ones who made the comet and shot it at Hao, not Hao, dumb ass. Maybe stop lying all the time and you won't get embarrassed like this. thumb up

Did you forget the post of Jiraiya casually tanking and waving aside a Nagato summon, which is Biju level? Or the post of Tsunade tanking dozens of mountain range cleaving slices from Madara's Susano'o? Or Jiraiya dishing out a mountain range sized fireball, and Orochimaru tanking it? Here, I'll post them again.

http://i38.mangapanda.com/naruto/375/naruto-1569191.jpg

http://i25.mangapanda.com/naruto/588/naruto-3338725.jpg

And just to prove the Tsunade feat to you, I'll show you what Madara's swords did to mountains.

http://i1.mangapanda.com/naruto/589/naruto-3353245.jpg

thumb up

Exactly, Suigetsu is weaker than his brother, as he admitted several times before. Not to mention that his brother was better at Hozuki water jutsu, and was defeated by Taijutsu users. Suigetsu has never fought one, so he has no feats of fighting anyone but the type of person he's weak against. Again, Sakura would demolish Suigetsu, because she beat his more powerful brother.

Are you kidding? That's why it's called the "Animal path", dumb ass.

The fact that Jiraiya's dead proves the notion that Pain was correct in saying that he never could have won unless he kept his secret and snuck up on him. Itachi's statement has not been disproved. Pain specifically said that he would have never won if he didn't sneak up on Jiraiya like a little pussy. You can't just ignore the scan I posted. Here it is again, just incase you forgot.

http://i54.tinypic.com/1zn7dpu.png

thumb up

Naruto knew that a few of the paths had certain abilities, he didn't know which one had what power, and he didn't know about the Human path. Rasenshuriken stronger than Gallant rasengan? Pffffffttt, Rasenshuriken cut two Pains in half, while Gallant rasengan disintegrated one from BASE Jiraiya. Not to mention that Jiraiya also has the whole "Gargantuan fireball" thing in his favor, as well as the duet genjutsu, as well as the two statements proving that Jiraiya was VASTLY stronger than anyone in all of Naruto up until Madara showed up.

No, you not showing the scans is what makes them invalid. You have yet to show A SINGLE SCAN of Hao tanking or dishing out even a town buster, which proves that he would get one shotted by any given Sannin, AND be unable to even scratch them with his strongest attack.

thumb up

wakkawakkawakka
Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Again, you're doing exactly what you accused me of doing. You're giving him powers without proving them. You gave scans of him catching and throwing back missiles. Anyone in anime can do that, even Kakashi did that against one of the Pain's with a much more powerful type of missile. Light speed? Where? Show me ONE scan that puts him anywhere NEAR a tenth of light speed. Not to mention that a Biju bomb is VASTLY more powerful than a modern torpedo, which is around a small house's level, whereas a Biju bomb is mountain range+ level. Also, you can't catch a biju bomb, as it'll blow up as soon as you touch it unless you wave it away, which Han could never even dream of doing.

Whatever. My point is that he always has the shield, meaning he can block anything that Hao throws at him a hundred times over without even feeling it.

Yeah, and you still haven't posted feats for Hao that even compare to what I posted, or what you claimed he's capable of.

No, to clarify the feat, here's this scan before what you posted.

http://i39.mangapanda.com/shaman-king/299/shaman-king-735403.jpg

So you're telling me that HoroHoro and Chocolove are Hao, now? They are the ones who made the comet and shot it at Hao, not Hao, dumb ass. Maybe stop lying all the time and you won't get embarrassed like this. thumb up

Did you forget the post of Jiraiya casually tanking and waving aside a Nagato summon, which is Biju level? Or the post of Tsunade tanking dozens of mountain range cleaving slices from Madara's Susano'o? Or Jiraiya dishing out a mountain range sized fireball, and Orochimaru tanking it? Here, I'll post them again.



And just to prove the Tsunade feat to you, I'll show you what Madara's swords did to mountains.

http://i1.mangapanda.com/naruto/589/naruto-3353245.jpg

thumb up

Exactly, Suigetsu is weaker than his brother, as he admitted several times before. Not to mention that his brother was better at Hozuki water jutsu, and was defeated by Taijutsu users. Suigetsu has never fought one, so he has no feats of fighting anyone but the type of person he's weak against. Again, Sakura would demolish Suigetsu, because she beat his more powerful brother.

Are you kidding? That's why it's called the "Animal path", dumb ass.

The fact that Jiraiya's dead proves the notion that Pain was correct in saying that he never could have won unless he kept his secret and snuck up on him. Itachi's statement has not been disproved. Pain specifically said that he would have never won if he didn't sneak up on Jiraiya like a little pussy. You can't just ignore the scan I posted. Here it is again, just incase you forgot.


Naruto knew that a few of the paths had certain abilities, he didn't know which one had what power, and he didn't know about the Human path. Rasenshuriken stronger than Gallant rasengan? Pffffffttt, Rasenshuriken cut two Pains in half, while Gallant rasengan disintegrated one from BASE Jiraiya. Not to mention that Jiraiya also has the whole "Gargantuan fireball" thing in his favor, as well as the duet genjutsu, as well as the two statements proving that Jiraiya was VASTLY stronger than anyone in all of Naruto up until Madara showed up.

No, you not showing the scans is what makes them invalid. You have yet to show A SINGLE SCAN of Hao tanking or dishing out even a town buster, which proves that he would get one shotted by any given Sannin, AND be unable to even scratch them with his strongest attack.

thumb up

I said "lightspeed reaction feats". If you're going to quote me at least have the decency to get what you're quoting correct. Also I've done that at least twice. Furthermore, prove that Asura's missiles are more powerful than the ones Hao dodged and caught. Would be nice if you could show me exactly when Kakashi dealt with that missiles.

Can you or can't you? That's the question and since you haven't posted a scan showing me Orochimaru tanking a mountain buster head on that proves to me that he can't...you're always welcome to post a scan or author statement disproving this.

So lets keep a record here on things you have ignored or not addressed clearly. You've ignored
Grenade feat:
http://www.mangapanda.com/138-7891-12/shaman-king/chapter-139.html
http://www.mangapanda.com/138-7891-14/shaman-king/chapter-139.html
http://www.mangapanda.com/138-7892-3/shaman-king/chapter-140.html
The lightspeed reaction feat along with a disintegration feat:
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/shaman_king/v26/c232/15.html
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/shaman_king/v26/c232/18.html
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/shaman_king/v26/c233/13.html
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/shaman_king/v26/c233/14.html
Hao's soul absorption feats:
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/shaman_king/v33/c297/18.html
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/shaman_king/v33/c297/19.html
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/shaman_king/v33/c297/24.html
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/shaman_king/v33/c297/25.html
Hao's supernova feat...refer to Yoh's statement:
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/shaman_king/v33/c299/19.html
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/shaman_king/v33/c299/20.html
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/shaman_king/v33/c299/21.html
Naval fleet feats:
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/shaman_king/v30/c261/14.html
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/shaman_king/v30/c262/
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/shaman_king/v30/c262/2.html
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/shaman_king/v30/c262/5.html
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/shaman_king/v30/c262/6.html
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/shaman_king/v30/c263/2.html

Did you get all of that?

Hao was the one who used all of the solar abilities which has been shown on several scans even the ones you yourself posted. Tell me exactly how Horohoro or Chocolove suddenly gained abilities to imitate cosmic phenomena. You're grasping for anything now and that's not cool.
Heck I'll even direct you to a wiki for both Chocolove and Horohoro as well a Hao:
http://shamanking.wikia.com/wiki/Usui_Horokeu
http://shamanking.wikia.com/wiki/Chocolove_McDonell
http://shamanking.wikia.com/wiki/Asakura_Hao

Except that you've neglected to point out that the sword wasn't even swung in Tsunade's general direction not did she come into contact with the sword. Also going by that scan are you willing to argue that the other 4 Kages can tank mountain busters because I could put that argument down before you even tried.

You've yet to prove that any of the Path summons are as powerful as a Biju. Still waiting for that Giant Rasengan scan. Prove that the fireball was the size of a mountain...which won't help since I've already proven that fire based attacks won't work on Hao. Also Orochimaru avoided the fireball through molting.

Suigetsu is not his brother. Suigetsu has his own feats, his brother does not have feats that can be shown unless you're willing to find some.

Animal Path is in reference to the realm of the 6 Path powers which in itself is not a summon. Prove that it is if you disagree.

You're the one who claimed that Itachi stated that Jiraiya could take out all of Akatsuki. Nagato, who a member of Akatsuki, killed Jiraiya. Regardless of the circumstances the fact that a Akatsuki member killed Jiraiya proves you initial point above Itachi wrong. Jiraiya was killed by an Akatsuki member...so disregarding circumstances, can you show me Jiraiya not being killed by Pein or not?

Naruto's Rasenshurken has showings that confirms it superiority to the Galliant/Giant Rasengan. On top of being faster, having better range, and a larger AoE, the Rasenshurkien in Sage Mode completely shredded Human Path to half a head. Naruto even had readily access to frog song thanks to Ma and Pa being out and it still didn't work. Once again maybes aren't the same as something actually happening on panel.

You really like disagreeing with me don't you? Oh well, doesn't change the fact that you've yet to accurately prove any of my scans wrong or show a superior feat. Oh and since you now favor the giant fireball, show me the fireball's AoE becuase I'll show you a feat of Hao instantly raising a forest:
http://i38.mangapanda.com/shaman-king/250/shaman-king-178236.jpg

SSJGGogeta
Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
I said "lightspeed reaction feats". If you're going to quote me at least have the decency to get what you're quoting correct. Also I've done that at least twice. Furthermore, prove that Asura's missiles are more powerful than the ones Hao dodged and caught. Would be nice if you could show me exactly when Kakashi dealt with that missiles.

Can you or can't you? That's the question and since you haven't posted a scan showing me Orochimaru tanking a mountain buster head on that proves to me that he can't...you're always welcome to post a scan or author statement disproving this.

So lets keep a record here on things you have ignored or not addressed clearly. You've ignored
Grenade feat:
http://www.mangapanda.com/138-7891-12/shaman-king/chapter-139.html
http://www.mangapanda.com/138-7891-14/shaman-king/chapter-139.html
http://www.mangapanda.com/138-7892-3/shaman-king/chapter-140.html
The lightspeed reaction feat along with a disintegration feat:
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/shaman_king/v26/c232/15.html
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/shaman_king/v26/c232/18.html
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/shaman_king/v26/c233/13.html
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/shaman_king/v26/c233/14.html
Hao's soul absorption feats:
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/shaman_king/v33/c297/18.html
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/shaman_king/v33/c297/19.html
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/shaman_king/v33/c297/24.html
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/shaman_king/v33/c297/25.html
Hao's supernova feat...refer to Yoh's statement:
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/shaman_king/v33/c299/19.html
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/shaman_king/v33/c299/20.html
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/shaman_king/v33/c299/21.html
Naval fleet feats:
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/shaman_king/v30/c261/14.html
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/shaman_king/v30/c262/
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/shaman_king/v30/c262/2.html
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/shaman_king/v30/c262/5.html
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/shaman_king/v30/c262/6.html
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/shaman_king/v30/c263/2.html

Did you get all of that?

Hao was the one who used all of the solar abilities which has been shown on several scans even the ones you yourself posted. Tell me exactly how Horohoro or Chocolove suddenly gained abilities to imitate cosmic phenomena. You're grasping for anything now and that's not cool.
Heck I'll even direct you to a wiki for both Chocolove and Horohoro as well a Hao:
http://shamanking.wikia.com/wiki/Usui_Horokeu
http://shamanking.wikia.com/wiki/Chocolove_McDonell
http://shamanking.wikia.com/wiki/Asakura_Hao

Except that you've neglected to point out that the sword wasn't even swung in Tsunade's general direction not did she come into contact with the sword. Also going by that scan are you willing to argue that the other 4 Kages can tank mountain busters because I could put that argument down before you even tried.

You've yet to prove that any of the Path summons are as powerful as a Biju. Still waiting for that Giant Rasengan scan. Prove that the fireball was the size of a mountain...which won't help since I've already proven that fire based attacks won't work on Hao. Also Orochimaru avoided the fireball through molting.

Suigetsu is not his brother. Suigetsu has his own feats, his brother does not have feats that can be shown unless you're willing to find some.

Animal Path is in reference to the realm of the 6 Path powers which in itself is not a summon. Prove that it is if you disagree.

You're the one who claimed that Itachi stated that Jiraiya could take out all of Akatsuki. Nagato, who a member of Akatsuki, killed Jiraiya. Regardless of the circumstances the fact that a Akatsuki member killed Jiraiya proves you initial point above Itachi wrong. Jiraiya was killed by an Akatsuki member...so disregarding circumstances, can you show me Jiraiya not being killed by Pein or not?

Naruto's Rasenshurken has showings that confirms it superiority to the Galliant/Giant Rasengan. On top of being faster, having better range, and a larger AoE, the Rasenshurkien in Sage Mode completely shredded Human Path to half a head. Naruto even had readily access to frog song thanks to Ma and Pa being out and it still didn't work. Once again maybes aren't the same as something actually happening on panel.

You really like disagreeing with me don't you? Oh well, doesn't change the fact that you've yet to accurately prove any of my scans wrong or show a superior feat. Oh and since you now favor the giant fireball, show me the fireball's AoE becuase I'll show you a feat of Hao instantly raising a forest:
http://i38.mangapanda.com/shaman-king/250/shaman-king-178236.jpg

Did you not see the scan I posted? Why would Chocolove and Horohoro say that they were going to mix ice and wind to block solar prominence, if they couldn't use ice and wind? Anyone that looks at that scan can tell you that THEY'RE the ones who used the comet. Not to mention, Hao has FIRE attacks, not ice.

I literally disproved ALL OF THOSE FEATS, as you've already posted them all.

1. That is probably the least impressive feat in manga/anime history. Pre time skip kid Naruto could tank a grenade like it's nothing. Even paper bombs have more explosive power.

2. Hao tanking a laser that broke the roof of a building is NOT light speed. That is him tanking a small building level attack. thumb up

3. Once again, he killed them AND THEN stole their souls. I'll even repost the scan.

http://z.mhcdn.net/store/manga/65/33-297.0/compressed/vimg017.jpg?v=11365744782

4. You literally just disproved your argument with your own scan.

http://z.mhcdn.net/store/manga/65/33-299.0/compressed/himg021.jpg?v=11365747844

He clearly says "but if this were real life, the Earth would be destroyed.", which is the same as earlier when Hao's "sun" cooling down made a "volcano", and Yoh said the scale is nothing close to real life.

5. Again, that was not an entire naval fleet. He destroyed a few submarines and aircraft carriers. Even if it was a naval fleet, that's still nothing compared to Jiraiya's mountain range dwarfing fireballs.

http:// naruto-3350.jpg

You see the thing in red? That's a mountain. You see the thing in red, that is over 20 times larger than the mountain? That's the fireball. Jiraiya's fireball is casually mountain range level, in other words, Hao is nothing to him.

You ignored this scan.

http://i25.mangapanda.com/naruto/588

Either that, or you ignored the fact that Tsunade had two of those duel mountain cleaving swords lodged in her abdomen, while Raikage was blocking one with a single hand. How can you disprove an argument that the kage's can tank mountain busting attacks when they have done so casually many times before?

Exactly, which proves Naruto is not as strong as Jiraiya, because he couldn't make an opening for genjutsu. Rasenshuriken cut animal path in half. Gallant Rasengan vaporized animal path in a second while also killing him.

Did I say that the animal path was a summon? No, so stop putting words on my keyboard, you lying whore. The creatures that animal path can summon ARE path abilities though, which is why they have rinnegan, idiot. Also I DID prove that the summons were Biju level, because they defeated Jiraiya's summon toads which fought on par with and tanked attacks from the Ichibii. That makes Nagato's summons Biju level+.

Prove that was a whole forrest. Find an aerial view showing the forrest burning that doesn't just show a few thin fire columns surrounding a small area.

Again, you have yet to show a LS reaction feat, or a single town busting feat from Hao, proving that he can't even TOUCH the sannin.

SSJGGogeta
Ok, well the site just ****ed me in the ass and didn't let me post my scans, but I posted firstly this:

http://i25.mangapanda.com/naruto/170/naruto-3350.jpg

Right behind Gamabunta, you can see a mountain. He dwarfs it, and his fireball dwarfs the mountain range around them.

http://i25.mangapanda.com/naruto/588/naruto-3338725.jpg

And this, with Tsunade and Raikage both tanking mountain range busting attacks.

wakkawakkawakka
Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Did you not see the scan I posted? Why would Chocolove and Horohoro say that they were going to mix ice and wind to block solar prominence, if they couldn't use ice and wind? Anyone that looks at that scan can tell you that THEY'RE the ones who used the comet. Not to mention, Hao has FIRE attacks, not ice.

I literally disproved ALL OF THOSE FEATS, as you've already posted them all.

1. That is probably the least impressive feat in manga/anime history. Pre time skip kid Naruto could tank a grenade like it's nothing. Even paper bombs have more explosive power.

2. Hao tanking a laser that broke the roof of a building is NOT light speed. That is him tanking a small building level attack. thumb up

3. Once again, he killed them AND THEN stole their souls. I'll even repost the scan.


4. You literally just disproved your argument with your own scan.

http://z.mhcdn.net/store/manga/65/33-299.0/compressed/himg021.jpg?v=11365747844

He clearly says "but if this were real life, the Earth would be destroyed.", which is the same as earlier when Hao's "sun" cooling down made a "volcano", and Yoh said the scale is nothing close to real life.

5. Again, that was not an entire naval fleet. He destroyed a few submarines and aircraft carriers. Even if it was a naval fleet, that's still nothing compared to Jiraiya's mountain range dwarfing fireballs.



You see the thing in red? That's a mountain. You see the thing in red, that is over 20 times larger than the mountain? That's the fireball. Jiraiya's fireball is casually mountain range level, in other words, Hao is nothing to him.

You ignored this scan.


Either that, or you ignored the fact that Tsunade had two of those duel mountain cleaving swords lodged in her abdomen, while Raikage was blocking one with a single hand. How can you disprove an argument that the kage's can tank mountain busting attacks when they have done so casually many times before?

Exactly, which proves Naruto is not as strong as Jiraiya, because he couldn't make an opening for genjutsu. Rasenshuriken cut animal path in half. Gallant Rasengan vaporized animal path in a second while also killing him.

Did I say that the animal path was a summon? No, so stop putting words on my keyboard, you lying whore. The creatures that animal path can summon ARE path abilities though, which is why they have rinnegan, idiot. Also I DID prove that the summons were Biju level, because they defeated Jiraiya's summon toads which fought on par with and tanked attacks from the Ichibii. That makes Nagato's summons Biju level+.

Prove that was a whole forrest. Find an aerial view showing the forrest burning that doesn't just show a few thin fire columns surrounding a small area.

Again, you have yet to show a LS reaction feat, or a single town busting feat from Hao, proving that he can't even TOUCH the sannin.

Did you read the wiki or look over the scan that you yourself posted? Hao's the one who created the comet. Unless you can point out somewhere in the manga or wikis that states Chocolove or Horohoro were the ones who made it that still stands as fact. Oh and if you think about changing the wiki I'll know about it.

Oh really? so why is that when I ask you for something you've resorted to calling me a liar or something obscene. If what you said was true, we wouldn't be having a big "no you argument" spanning pages on here.

1. Prove it with scans. I have no problem posting scans multiple times so neither should you. Show me the equivalent of Naruto tanking a grenade with 5x the power to the face.

2. They give an actual number to the laser's speed which matches the constant that is 3x10^(8) m/s. That is actual light-speed BTW unless you're going to disagree with physics too:
http://i37.mangapanda.com/shaman-king/232/shaman-king-1812105.jpg

3. Killing with soul absorption. If you can show me Hao kill them with preceding means then do so.

4. Not really. Though inconclusive, the reader has no real reason to disagree with Yoh's statement especially considering the scale of the solar attacks Hao used. Again the volcano was Lyserg's attacks as confirmed by this wiki page of SoF's capabilities:
http://shamanking.wikia.com/wiki/Spirit_of_Fire

5. Prove that it wasn't. And even if it wasn't that doesn't change the fact that Hao dealt with a modern military force when it could be argues that the Sannin have been handled by less

The toad summons aren't bigger than mountains. Those were large rocks. For example a frog of comparable size to Gamabunta was ale to fit into Konoha just fine while still dwarfing buildings:
http://www.mangapanda.com/93-129-10/naruto/chapter-124.html

Also even with a large AoE it didn't destroy anything. Also if you can claim something is a mountain w/o a frame of reference, then that means I can say Hao can instantly cook a forest w/o...oh wait I do have a frame of reference.

Show me that the mini-Susanoos are also mountain busters. Perfect Susanoo is a different degree of usage than the one Madara used to impale Tsunade.

Oh and any day now on that Giant Rasengan feat.

You said Path Powers were summons...you're exact words were "His summons ARE Path powers". Summoning is a Path power however Asura Path or Human Path aren't summons. There wasn't must clarity in your post which lead to the misunderstanding.

Well considering we get a sky view of the forest and the person in the panel says that Hao has burned the forest...there isn't much room for doubt.

You've yet to show me a Giant Rasengan or Tsunade tanking a mountain buster nor have you shown me Orochimaru tanking a biju ball with his body and w/o a shield. Oh and I'm going to help you out and say that Tsunade actually does have a feat for tanking city busters under her belt

SSJGGogeta
Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
Did you read the wiki or look over the scan that you yourself posted? Hao's the one who created the comet. Unless you can point out somewhere in the manga or wikis that states Chocolove or Horohoro were the ones who made it that still stands as fact. Oh and if you think about changing the wiki I'll know about it.

Oh really? so why is that when I ask you for something you've resorted to calling me a liar or something obscene. If what you said was true, we wouldn't be having a big "no you argument" spanning pages on here.

1. Prove it with scans. I have no problem posting scans multiple times so neither should you. Show me the equivalent of Naruto tanking a grenade with 5x the power to the face.

2. They give an actual number to the laser's speed which matches the constant that is 3x10^(8) m/s. That is actual light-speed BTW unless you're going to disagree with physics too:
http://i37.mangapanda.com/shaman-king/232/shaman-king-1812105.jpg

3. Killing with soul absorption. If you can show me Hao kill them with preceding means then do so.

4. Not really. Though inconclusive, the reader has no real reason to disagree with Yoh's statement especially considering the scale of the solar attacks Hao used. Again the volcano was Lyserg's attacks as confirmed by this wiki page of SoF's capabilities:
http://shamanking.wikia.com/wiki/Spirit_of_Fire

5. Prove that it wasn't. And even if it wasn't that doesn't change the fact that Hao dealt with a modern military force when it could be argues that the Sannin have been handled by less

The toad summons aren't bigger than mountains. Those were large rocks. For example a frog of comparable size to Gamabunta was ale to fit into Konoha just fine while still dwarfing buildings:
http://www.mangapanda.com/93-129-10/naruto/chapter-124.html

Also even with a large AoE it didn't destroy anything. Also if you can claim something is a mountain w/o a frame of reference, then that means I can say Hao can instantly cook a forest w/o...oh wait I do have a frame of reference.

Show me that the mini-Susanoos are also mountain busters. Perfect Susanoo is a different degree of usage than the one Madara used to impale Tsunade.

Oh and any day now on that Giant Rasengan feat.

You said Path Powers were summons...you're exact words were "His summons ARE Path powers". Summoning is a Path power however Asura Path or Human Path aren't summons. There wasn't must clarity in your post which lead to the misunderstanding.

Well considering we get a sky view of the forest and the person in the panel says that Hao has burned the forest...there isn't much room for doubt.

You've yet to show me a Giant Rasengan or Tsunade tanking a mountain buster nor have you shown me Orochimaru tanking a biju ball with his body and w/o a shield. Oh and I'm going to help you out and say that Tsunade actually does have a feat for tanking city busters under her belt

Are you stupid? Manga scans>>>Wiki's. Chocolove and Horo STATED they were making the comet, and you somehow are saying Hao did it? Are you retarded?

1. http://i19.mangapanda.com/naruto/186/naruto-3636.jpg

This explosion is WAAY more impressive than that of a grenade. This actually dwarfs entire giant trees. A simple paper bomb attached to a kunai.

They throw these around ALL the time in Naruto, and Naruto himself has tanked them casually before.

2. So you're saying that Hao is light speed because he set up a shield before an attack came? So Orochimaru is also light speed because he blocked a Biju bomb, when biju bombs can cross continents in less than a second? Alright. No, idiot, he set up a shield to block a fast attack. It has nothing to do with his speed.

3. You already have, by posting the scan. Show something disproving the statement, if you don't believe it. Burden of proof is on the accuser. thumb up

4. Once again, YOH SPECIFICALLY STATED THE SCALE WAS NOTHING LIKE REAL LIFE. FOR THE LAST TIME, MANGA SCANS/STATEMENTS>>>FANNON WIKI'S.

5. I already did. No navel fleets consists of three submarines. Navel fleets are ENORMOUS, like the one Aang took out in Avatar book one. Less people maybe. Any of the low tier Naruto characters around the level of the sound four could EASILY take out the naval force that Hao did.

6. Large rocks? I'm talking about the LITERAL MOUNTAIN RANGE on the right side of the page. Since when is Konoha mountain sized? You DO know that the hokage faces are carved on a mountain range, right?

7. The power scale was different, but their potency was the same. They were clones with infinite chakra. Tsunade casually tanked Pain's almighty push that destroyed the multi-city sized Konoha, but she was pierced by Madara's swords. That's still mountain level tanking pal.

8. Except there were clear mountains in the Jiraiya scan, and there were only six tree's in the Hao scan. I can prove(like I already have) that Jiraiya's fireball is larger than a mountain, but you CAN'T prove that Hao's fire was forrest sized, unless forrest's are now consisted of six tree's, which makes it so VASTLY less impressive, that Jiraiya's fire is equal to the sun whereas Hao's fire is the moon.

Which Giant rasengan feat? You keep saying you want one, when I've already posted several. Yes, I'm aware Tsunade tanked Almight push, a multi mountain range busting attack. thumb up

wakkawakkawakka
Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Are you stupid? Manga scans>>>Wiki's. Chocolove and Horo STATED they were making the comet, and you somehow are saying Hao did it? Are you retarded?

1. http://i19.mangapanda.com/naruto/186/naruto-3636.jpg

This explosion is WAAY more impressive than that of a grenade. This actually dwarfs entire giant trees. A simple paper bomb attached to a kunai.

They throw these around ALL the time in Naruto, and Naruto himself has tanked them casually before.

2. So you're saying that Hao is light speed because he set up a shield before an attack came? So Orochimaru is also light speed because he blocked a Biju bomb, when biju bombs can cross continents in less than a second? Alright. No, idiot, he set up a shield to block a fast attack. It has nothing to do with his speed.

3. You already have, by posting the scan. Show something disproving the statement, if you don't believe it. Burden of proof is on the accuser. thumb up

4. Once again, YOH SPECIFICALLY STATED THE SCALE WAS NOTHING LIKE REAL LIFE. FOR THE LAST TIME, MANGA SCANS/STATEMENTS>>>FANNON WIKI'S.

5. I already did. No navel fleets consists of three submarines. Navel fleets are ENORMOUS, like the one Aang took out in Avatar book one. Less people maybe. Any of the low tier Naruto characters around the level of the sound four could EASILY take out the naval force that Hao did.

6. Large rocks? I'm talking about the LITERAL MOUNTAIN RANGE on the right side of the page. Since when is Konoha mountain sized? You DO know that the hokage faces are carved on a mountain range, right?

7. The power scale was different, but their potency was the same. They were clones with infinite chakra. Tsunade casually tanked Pain's almighty push that destroyed the multi-city sized Konoha, but she was pierced by Madara's swords. That's still mountain level tanking pal.

8. Except there were clear mountains in the Jiraiya scan, and there were only six tree's in the Hao scan. I can prove(like I already have) that Jiraiya's fireball is larger than a mountain, but you CAN'T prove that Hao's fire was forrest sized, unless forrest's are now consisted of six tree's, which makes it so VASTLY less impressive, that Jiraiya's fire is equal to the sun whereas Hao's fire is the moon.

Which Giant rasengan feat? You keep saying you want one, when I've already posted several. Yes, I'm aware Tsunade tanked Almight push, a multi mountain range busting attack. thumb up

I'm the one who told you that remember. Also Chocolove and Horohoro did not create the comet considering it doesn't make sense that they would have the ability to do so given the context of their powers. That and Hao states that he's making the coment sword even spelling it out in big numbers. There's also the fact that the guy making the comet is larger than either SoR or SoW as illustrated below:
http://i7.mangapanda.com/shaman-king/299/shaman-king-735405.jpg

1. So do you have a value for the power of that explosion because since the X Grenade is based off a standard one I could easily pull up a rough estimate of the energy released by it. Also that wasn't Naruto and that wasn't at point black range: those characters either dodged or were knocked back by the force. Is it really that difficult for you to answer my question effectively.

2. This is funny right here. You failed to disprove that Hao survived/reacted to a legit light-speed attack so you're next step is to low ball it. Okay, Considering Hao's previous transmutation feats with SoF, its can be inferred that he transmuted it into metal upon impact. Also not only did he block the attack, he also saved the person who launched it as well. So I"ll summarize, since Hao's armor oversoul was already up as you pointed out, Hao would still have to react to the laser and transmute fire into metal in order to effectively block it.

3. You're the one who stated Hao killed people prior to absorbing their souls rather than my argument which was that Hao killed by soul absorption. You made that claim remember? Therefore its only just that you're the one to prove it.

4. Yoh also states that it would've still incinerated the Earth ahd it actually happened on their. Also my wiki posts, that are only used to sum up general knowledge and use actually manga chapters as reference, are still more valid than anything you may claim about the rather dated Databooks. And considering the power behind Hao's previous attacks, the reader has no real reason to disagree with Yoh: you could argue however its inconclusive but that shouldn't really matter.

5. Scaling off size again? If its said in canon its a fleet then its a fleet regardless of how much of the fleet was actually scene. Even if it was only a few ships they were still modernized and equipped with military grade missiles. Oh as for that Sound 4 comment...prove it

6. Which neither of the frog summons are as big or as tall as, that's what I'm getting at. That wasn't a mountain range those were large rocks. Hecy to give you a frame of reference here are how the rock formations look both zoomed out and up close and better yet close to people:
http://www.mangapanda.com/93-175-2/naruto/chapter-170.html
http://www.mangapanda.com/93-169-6/naruto/chapter-164.html

7. No it isn't. Sure she tanked the force of Shinra Tensei however she was in no shape to fight afterwards. Also the mini-Susanoo are not mountain busters I don't know where you're getting this from.

8. Those were not clear mountains and as I've posted above there is sufficient evidence to classify those formations as large rocks. Even if they were mountains, Jiraiya's fireball didn't destroy anything. Also you're using the number visible to determine whether or not its a forest even though it was stated on panel that the forest had been set on fire. If it look like a duck, and quack like a duck, by your logic its might as well be a zebra. Also appearance =/= potency. Those comparison you made are off on the sole fact that you'r judging an attacks effectiveness based on appearance and size alone which is not how to properly scale attacks.


Is that evidence of you actually forgetting what you stated. Okay since you forgot about the Giant Rasengan claim you mentioned I'll gladly remind you:
Originally posted by SSJGGogeta

3. Gets VAPORIZED by a massive sage mode rasengan from Jiraiya. thumb up

B]

Not exact words but considering Jiraiya has an attack labeled as Giant Rasengan it stands to reason why I though you were talking about that. You do get point for finding that fireball feat for me even though it took forever for you to do so and doesn't really match up to what Hao can do.

SSJGGogeta
Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
I'm the one who told you that remember. Also Chocolove and Horohoro did not create the comet considering it doesn't make sense that they would have the ability to do so given the context of their powers. That and Hao states that he's making the coment sword even spelling it out in big numbers. There's also the fact that the guy making the comet is larger than either SoR or SoW as illustrated below:
http://i7.mangapanda.com/shaman-king/299/shaman-king-735405.jpg

1. So do you have a value for the power of that explosion because since the X Grenade is based off a standard one I could easily pull up a rough estimate of the energy released by it. Also that wasn't Naruto and that wasn't at point black range: those characters either dodged or were knocked back by the force. Is it really that difficult for you to answer my question effectively.

2. This is funny right here. You failed to disprove that Hao survived/reacted to a legit light-speed attack so you're next step is to low ball it. Okay, Considering Hao's previous transmutation feats with SoF, its can be inferred that he transmuted it into metal upon impact. Also not only did he block the attack, he also saved the person who launched it as well. So I"ll summarize, since Hao's armor oversoul was already up as you pointed out, Hao would still have to react to the laser and transmute fire into metal in order to effectively block it.

3. You're the one who stated Hao killed people prior to absorbing their souls rather than my argument which was that Hao killed by soul absorption. You made that claim remember? Therefore its only just that you're the one to prove it.

4. Yoh also states that it would've still incinerated the Earth ahd it actually happened on their. Also my wiki posts, that are only used to sum up general knowledge and use actually manga chapters as reference, are still more valid than anything you may claim about the rather dated Databooks. And considering the power behind Hao's previous attacks, the reader has no real reason to disagree with Yoh: you could argue however its inconclusive but that shouldn't really matter.

5. Scaling off size again? If its said in canon its a fleet then its a fleet regardless of how much of the fleet was actually scene. Even if it was only a few ships they were still modernized and equipped with military grade missiles. Oh as for that Sound 4 comment...prove it

6. Which neither of the frog summons are as big or as tall as, that's what I'm getting at. That wasn't a mountain range those were large rocks. Hecy to give you a frame of reference here are how the rock formations look both zoomed out and up close and better yet close to people:
http://www.mangapanda.com/93-175-2/naruto/chapter-170.html
http://www.mangapanda.com/93-169-6/naruto/chapter-164.html

7. No it isn't. Sure she tanked the force of Shinra Tensei however she was in no shape to fight afterwards. Also the mini-Susanoo are not mountain busters I don't know where you're getting this from.

8. Those were not clear mountains and as I've posted above there is sufficient evidence to classify those formations as large rocks. Even if they were mountains, Jiraiya's fireball didn't destroy anything. Also you're using the number visible to determine whether or not its a forest even though it was stated on panel that the forest had been set on fire. If it look like a duck, and quack like a duck, by your logic its might as well be a zebra. Also appearance =/= potency. Those comparison you made are off on the sole fact that you'r judging an attacks effectiveness based on appearance and size alone which is not how to properly scale attacks.


Is that evidence of you actually forgetting what you stated. Okay since you forgot about the Giant Rasengan claim you mentioned I'll gladly remind you:


Not exact words but considering Jiraiya has an attack labeled as Giant Rasengan it stands to reason why I though you were talking about that. You do get point for finding that fireball feat for me even though it took forever for you to do so and doesn't really match up to what Hao can do.

So why is it that Hao's mech is the one defending against the comet?

1. THEN DO IT. I'm tired of you pussy-footing around these bullshit claims you make, only to disregard FACTUAL PROOF that you are WRONG.

2. When did I say Hao didn't survive a LS attack? Never. Again, surviving=/=reacting to. Are you saying that Superman was fast enough to escape the big bang? Are you saying that Naruto was fast enough to dodge Haku's senbon? Are you saying that Ulquiorra was fast enough to dodge Ichigo's cero? Once again, tanking=/=dodging/reacting to. Hao was strong enough to tank a laser, not fast enough to dodge it.

3. No, you made the claim by bringing up the feat about him insta-killing with soul absorption, and I disputed it by saying it's not true, because YOU couldn't prove that it was. I even showed a statement, and if you STILL can't disprove it, then, FOR THE LAST TIME, it's. not. true. Again, burden of proof is on the accuser. thumb up

4. No he didn't. You're completely warping the scan I posted. Yoh specifically elaborated on his previous statement by saying that if it was a real supernova, Earth would have been completely destroyed, further proving that Shaman king characters powers are nothing compared to the actual cosmic bodies they're named after.

5. And? Once again, every army on Earth without nuclear missiles lacks the capacity to even destroy mount Rainier. Kidomaru blew away a huge part of a forrest with a single arrow. All of the sound four are able to kill jonin in their first CM forms. Jonin throw around, tank or deal with mountain busting attacks. Even Kakashi was able to beat Hidan with simple taijutsu alone. Hidan fights mountain range busting biju. The sound for shit on any naval squad, especially the one Hao dealt with. Hell, they would beat Hao, going by feats alone.

6. Did I say anything about the debris that was on the ground? Look at my first scan again. There are clear mountains behind Gamabunta. Why does every retard on here think that author's draw to scale?

7. You forget to mention that she was healing everyone in the village simultaneously, so they would also survive that attack. She was completely drained, and still casually tanked a small country busting attack.

8. Actually pal, that's YOUR logic. If it looks like a six tree scorcher, isn't shown to be more than a six tree scorcher, then it must be a complete forrest buster. That is TEXTBOOK fanboy-ism. Okay, so because Cell's solar kamehameha didn't destroy anything, it's not a casual solar system buster? Makes sense, you only accept statements from YOUR favorite series, and nothing is cannon in any other series. You're such a phucking ignorant fanboy.

Exactly. Hao WOULD get vaporized by a giant rasengan, as it's casually vaporized people with FAR greater durability feats than Hao.

Either way, I'm done with this. Everyone on here can clearly see that you're an idiot fantard, and that you've lost. Later.

wakkawakkawakka
Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
So why is it that Hao's mech is the one defending against the comet?

1. THEN DO IT. I'm tired of you pussy-footing around these bullshit claims you make, only to disregard FACTUAL PROOF that you are WRONG.

2. When did I say Hao didn't survive a LS attack? Never. Again, surviving=/=reacting to. Are you saying that Superman was fast enough to escape the big bang? Are you saying that Naruto was fast enough to dodge Haku's senbon? Are you saying that Ulquiorra was fast enough to dodge Ichigo's cero? Once again, tanking=/=dodging/reacting to. Hao was strong enough to tank a laser, not fast enough to dodge it.

3. No, you made the claim by bringing up the feat about him insta-killing with soul absorption, and I disputed it by saying it's not true, because YOU couldn't prove that it was. I even showed a statement, and if you STILL can't disprove it, then, FOR THE LAST TIME, it's. not. true. Again, burden of proof is on the accuser. thumb up

4. No he didn't. You're completely warping the scan I posted. Yoh specifically elaborated on his previous statement by saying that if it was a real supernova, Earth would have been completely destroyed, further proving that Shaman king characters powers are nothing compared to the actual cosmic bodies they're named after.

5. And? Once again, every army on Earth without nuclear missiles lacks the capacity to even destroy mount Rainier. Kidomaru blew away a huge part of a forrest with a single arrow. All of the sound four are able to kill jonin in their first CM forms. Jonin throw around, tank or deal with mountain busting attacks. Even Kakashi was able to beat Hidan with simple taijutsu alone. Hidan fights mountain range busting biju. The sound for shit on any naval squad, especially the one Hao dealt with. Hell, they would beat Hao, going by feats alone.

6. Did I say anything about the debris that was on the ground? Look at my first scan again. There are clear mountains behind Gamabunta. Why does every retard on here think that author's draw to scale?

7. You forget to mention that she was healing everyone in the village simultaneously, so they would also survive that attack. She was completely drained, and still casually tanked a small country busting attack.

8. Actually pal, that's YOUR logic. If it looks like a six tree scorcher, isn't shown to be more than a six tree scorcher, then it must be a complete forrest buster. That is TEXTBOOK fanboy-ism. Okay, so because Cell's solar kamehameha didn't destroy anything, it's not a casual solar system buster? Makes sense, you only accept statements from YOUR favorite series, and nothing is cannon in any other series. You're such a phucking ignorant fanboy.

Exactly. Hao WOULD get vaporized by a giant rasengan, as it's casually vaporized people with FAR greater durability feats than Hao.

Either way, I'm done with this. Everyone on here can clearly see that you're an idiot fantard, and that you've lost. Later.

Its not, that's Lyserg defending the group from the comet blale by using the volcano move. I don't know how you forgot that considering you actually tried to use that panel against me but I'll post the scan: http://i23.mangapanda.com/shaman-king/299/shaman-king-735406.jpg

1. Um...I really don't know what you would gain form asking me to prove your own feat inferior but whatever I'll give it a go. We might not know the exact model for the X grenade however we do know the general excepted value for how much energy is released from a stick of TNT: this number is 836 kilojoules. Now take a standard M67 grenade which has a mass of 0.4 kilo grams and a known blast range of 15 meters with certain death range of 5 meter from where it detonates: using the conversion from its TNT equivalent we get an energy output of 1.67 mega joules of energy. From here we could crudely multiply these quantities by 5 and get almost 10 mega-joules of energy being released a point blank range. Not only that but the blast was contained in a small area and the grenade deplete the oxygen in the immediate AoE as outlined below:
http://www.mangapanda.com/138-7891-12/shaman-king/chapter-139.html

Can you show me Naruto tanking something like that pre-skip? Oh and if you need a source for any of the numbers I got PM me: I'll try to answer an additional questions concerning grenade power.

2. You adamantly ignored this feat for a full page and now that I've given you a number you can't dispute you're now trying to find some way to make this look less impressive than it is, which is funny to me. I agreed with you that Hao had his oversoul up however Hao would still have to react to the laser in order to transmute SoF into an element: also we don't have enough evidence in the scan to make a claim for him already performing the transmutation. even if Hao didn't have this feat his performance at the naval battle would still put him roughly at mach 8: I can provide numbers for these as well.

3. So you need me to remind you of something else you said again? alright then: Originally posted by SSJGGogeta


You've shown those, but again, you're neglecting the SOLE FACT that Yoh SPECIFICALLY STATES "Hao KILLED THEM, AND THEN ABSORBED THEIR SOULS", meaning he used the vaporizing technique, or some other attack, and THEN absorbed their dead souls. Again though, none of his feats are on par with the Sannin destruction/durability feats, so one last time. Hao gets shat on. thumb up


BTW that wasn't Yoh who said that it was Rutherford, I think I mentioned that already but its all good. I also showed you a scan of Hao soul absorbing without using a method of death leading up to it: I'd post the scan but I know how much you don't like links and the forum has an image limit so you'll have to ask nicely if you want one. Even if it was true you still have yet to provide an adequate reason as to why this wouldn't kill the Sannin on the spot

4. Even if it pales in comparison to an actual supernova, Low-tier planet busting is still planet busting. Oh and Hao still has the succeeding Black Hole feat...another thing you haven't properly addressed: well you tried to with some attempt at using Databooks and misinterpreting Chibaku Tensei's functionality but it seems that didn't go really far.

5. That doesn't mean much to me if you're not going to post scans supporting these claims. I've already showed you Hao instantly cooking an entire forest, that for some reason think means he only burnt a few trees, so that Kidomaru feat is a bad example.

6. Those are not mountains: they lack the size and height of an actual mountain. The Sannin battle takes places on a grassy plain with large rocks. Even if those were stated to be mountains based on size alone they would only be the size of a hill at the very best.

7. Perhaps but the fact that she couldn't fight afterwards mean that she didn't casually tank Shinra Tensei. Maybe if she weren't trying to heal everyone you'd have something but we will never know. Also since Tsunade has been put done by less, bisection for example, it still isn't a very good feat for this particular fight.

8. We have an overview of the forest and it was stated that they were in the forest. Really now sure why that's a problem for you. That Cell solar busting attack is off because it was blocked into space w/o any signs of actually destroying anything within the solar system itself. Another thing to address is that Cell's feats prior to that encounter don't suggest that he could've destroyed the solar system in one go.

If you're so confident in this feat then how about showing me a scan of Jiraiya using the Giant Rasengan on something. Oh and I really hate to do this to Jiraiya but I have to mention it: the dude has never won a fight in canon despite his display of power in the story. Would love some scans showing otherwise.

SSJGGogeta
Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
Its not, that's Lyserg defending the group from the comet blale by using the volcano move. I don't know how you forgot that considering you actually tried to use that panel against me but I'll post the scan: http://i23.mangapanda.com/shaman-king/299/shaman-king-735406.jpg

1. Um...I really don't know what you would gain form asking me to prove your own feat inferior but whatever I'll give it a go. We might not know the exact model for the X grenade however we do know the general excepted value for how much energy is released from a stick of TNT: this number is 836 kilojoules. Now take a standard M67 grenade which has a mass of 0.4 kilo grams and a known blast range of 15 meters with certain death range of 5 meter from where it detonates: using the conversion from its TNT equivalent we get an energy output of 1.67 mega joules of energy. From here we could crudely multiply these quantities by 5 and get almost 10 mega-joules of energy being released a point blank range. Not only that but the blast was contained in a small area and the grenade deplete the oxygen in the immediate AoE as outlined below:
http://www.mangapanda.com/138-7891-12/shaman-king/chapter-139.html

Can you show me Naruto tanking something like that pre-skip? Oh and if you need a source for any of the numbers I got PM me: I'll try to answer an additional questions concerning grenade power.

2. You adamantly ignored this feat for a full page and now that I've given you a number you can't dispute you're now trying to find some way to make this look less impressive than it is, which is funny to me. I agreed with you that Hao had his oversoul up however Hao would still have to react to the laser in order to transmute SoF into an element: also we don't have enough evidence in the scan to make a claim for him already performing the transmutation. even if Hao didn't have this feat his performance at the naval battle would still put him roughly at mach 8: I can provide numbers for these as well.

3. So you need me to remind you of something else you said again? alright then:
BTW that wasn't Yoh who said that it was Rutherford, I think I mentioned that already but its all good. I also showed you a scan of Hao soul absorbing without using a method of death leading up to it: I'd post the scan but I know how much you don't like links and the forum has an image limit so you'll have to ask nicely if you want one. Even if it was true you still have yet to provide an adequate reason as to why this wouldn't kill the Sannin on the spot

4. Even if it pales in comparison to an actual supernova, Low-tier planet busting is still planet busting. Oh and Hao still has the succeeding Black Hole feat...another thing you haven't properly addressed: well you tried to with some attempt at using Databooks and misinterpreting Chibaku Tensei's functionality but it seems that didn't go really far.

5. That doesn't mean much to me if you're not going to post scans supporting these claims. I've already showed you Hao instantly cooking an entire forest, that for some reason think means he only burnt a few trees, so that Kidomaru feat is a bad example.

6. Those are not mountains: they lack the size and height of an actual mountain. The Sannin battle takes places on a grassy plain with large rocks. Even if those were stated to be mountains based on size alone they would only be the size of a hill at the very best.

7. Perhaps but the fact that she couldn't fight afterwards mean that she didn't casually tank Shinra Tensei. Maybe if she weren't trying to heal everyone you'd have something but we will never know. Also since Tsunade has been put done by less, bisection for example, it still isn't a very good feat for this particular fight.

8. We have an overview of the forest and it was stated that they were in the forest. Really now sure why that's a problem for you. That Cell solar busting attack is off because it was blocked into space w/o any signs of actually destroying anything within the solar system itself. Another thing to address is that Cell's feats prior to that encounter don't suggest that he could've destroyed the solar system in one go.

If you're so confident in this feat then how about showing me a scan of Jiraiya using the Giant Rasengan on something. Oh and I really hate to do this to Jiraiya but I have to mention it: the dude has never won a fight in canon despite his display of power in the story. Would love some scans showing otherwise.

Are you retarded? There are two mechs. The one with the giant fireball above it is Hao's, the other is Yoh's. Yoh's is CLEARLY the one shooting the comet, dumb ass.

1. That calc is total bs, untrue, and you're retarded for pulling those random numbers out of your ass.

2. I did not ignore it. You're saying that surviving something makes you faster than it. So by your logic, if I shoot a laser pointer at myself, and don't die, I'm clearly faster than light. You're an idiot.

3. And you still haven't proved that it would kill the sannin, so it won't, as you, the ACCUSER, have not given proof, while I have proved that he can't kill you by absorbing your soul from a statement.

4. When was even a "low-tier" planet busted? Never. They said if it was real life, it would bust the earth. That's obvious. They even stated they couldn't match up to even a real life Volcano.

5. You still have yet to prove that the fire burned more than six trees.

6. Then why did Tsunade point to the mountain range in previous pages and say the necklace of death was worth more than three of those mountains?

7. First off, Tsunade was drained of her chakra healing hundreds of people, and tanked it. Still makes her a casual small country busting level tanker. Secondly, when has Tsunade been bisected? Again though, why does it matter if you're cut in half by a multi-mountain level attack? You're LITERALLY saying that Frieza can't tank mountain busters because he was cut in half. Retard.

8. No we don't. We see six trees being burned. Prove it was more. What? Cell's kamehameha was eaten by Gohan's. Kamehameha's dissipate, idiot, they don't travel forever. Cell is a casual solar system buster with his smallest AOE attack. Retard.

Why do I need to? Someone vastly weaker than him killed a mountain level character with a vastly weaker rasengan.

wakkawakkawakka
Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Are you retarded? There are two mechs. The one with the giant fireball above it is Hao's, the other is Yoh's. Yoh's is CLEARLY the one shooting the comet, dumb ass.

1. That calc is total bs, untrue, and you're retarded for pulling those random numbers out of your ass.

2. I did not ignore it. You're saying that surviving something makes you faster than it. So by your logic, if I shoot a laser pointer at myself, and don't die, I'm clearly faster than light. You're an idiot.

3. And you still haven't proved that it would kill the sannin, so it won't, as you, the ACCUSER, have not given proof, while I have proved that he can't kill you by absorbing your soul from a statement.

4. When was even a "low-tier" planet busted? Never. They said if it was real life, it would bust the earth. That's obvious. They even stated they couldn't match up to even a real life Volcano.

5. You still have yet to prove that the fire burned more than six trees.

6. Then why did Tsunade point to the mountain range in previous pages and say the necklace of death was worth more than three of those mountains?

7. First off, Tsunade was drained of her chakra healing hundreds of people, and tanked it. Still makes her a casual small country busting level tanker. Secondly, when has Tsunade been bisected? Again though, why does it matter if you're cut in half by a multi-mountain level attack? You're LITERALLY saying that Frieza can't tank mountain busters because he was cut in half. Retard.

8. No we don't. We see six trees being burned. Prove it was more. What? Cell's kamehameha was eaten by Gohan's. Kamehameha's dissipate, idiot, they don't travel forever. Cell is a casual solar system buster with his smallest AOE attack. Retard.

Why do I need to? Someone vastly weaker than him killed a mountain level character with a vastly weaker rasengan.

That was Lyserg blocking the comet and Hao swinging the comet towards the group. Well at least your no longer saying its Chocolove and Horohoro making the comet which is a step in the right direction.

1. On what grounds is my information wrong? The weight for the M67, which is 14 oz which translate to 400 grams(396.89 grams to be exact), along with the excepted value for the energy released from a gram of TNT: which is 4.183x10^3 joules. are excepted value by the U.S military and scientific community respectfully. You can find information on both below and the sites do include references. Heck I'll even include a wiki:
http://www.armystudyguide.com/content/army_board_study_guide_topics/hand_grenades/hand-grenades-study-guide.shtml
http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/2000-07/964039884.Ch.r.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TNT_equivalent

2. I did not, and if that is what I said somewhere in this mess of post then it was not intentional. I did argue that Hao would need FTL reaction time to transmute SoF into metal in order to block the laser. I'll also add that Hao's oversoul would also have to be strong enough to withstand the pressure from the laser being shot down from space which considering the scan not only give him FTL reaction time but also hill-busting durability.

3. Um...soul absorption=instant death as you saw in the scans. Also Hao can materialize SoF anywhere with oxygen meaning that he can spontaneously set ablaze object and people on a whim...as I've shown you with the forest, and the X-law dude using the laser, and the X-Laws fighting Hao, and to a certain degree even the island buster. Not sure why that isn't enough for you. I'd post the links again but you seem not to like links for some reason: that and I've already posted the links on this page.

4. Would bust the planet = planet busters even if it is "low tier" and considering Hao's feats prior to the supernova support the claim that he's a planetary threat, there isn't much room for doubt about it. Not sure what point you're trying to argue right now. Do you even know what you're trying to argue right now? Please clarify for me because this will make things a lot easier.

5. If I may ask where are you getting the number 6 from?Because I actually did a count and there's no less than 15 visible trees in my scan and that's not including the one obscured by the blaze.

6. Care to point out the mountains that Tsunade mentions. Even then whether or not its a mountain is still debatable. Take for instance the "mountain" Ichigo busted: it was concluded that it was barely larger than a hill.

7. If Tsunade was clearly out of it after the attack, then she didn't casually tank it: if she did, chances are she would still be ready to fight but as I stated before we'll never know. As for Tsunade being bisected:
http://i33.mangapanda.com/naruto/601/naruto-3582199.jpg

8. I could do some photoshop work and point out how many trees I see but...is that really necessary? Prove it. For an attack to be able to destroy a solar system it would have to cross light-years worth of distance: the fact that it dissipated after being deflected also takes away from its "alleged" capabilities. BTW I have no idea how that example is relevant to this topic.

If you make a claim about something being canon and its not generally known to the person your debating against, then you need scans. It really sounds like you're dodging the question here so I'll resolve the Rasengan feat issue like I did the Orochimaru durability one. "Can he or can't he disintergrate something or large size or high durability with a Giant Rasengan?" show scans if the former is possible please.

SSJGGogeta
Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
That was Lyserg blocking the comet and Hao swinging the comet towards the group. Well at least your no longer saying its Chocolove and Horohoro making the comet which is a step in the right direction.

1. On what grounds is my information wrong? The weight for the M67, which is 14 oz which translate to 400 grams(396.89 grams to be exact), along with the excepted value for the energy released from a gram of TNT: which is 4.183x10^3 joules. are excepted value by the U.S military and scientific community respectfully. You can find information on both below and the sites do include references. Heck I'll even include a wiki:
http://www.armystudyguide.com/content/army_board_study_guide_topics/hand_grenades/hand-grenades-study-guide.shtml
http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/2000-07/964039884.Ch.r.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TNT_equivalent

2. I did not, and if that is what I said somewhere in this mess of post then it was not intentional. I did argue that Hao would need FTL reaction time to transmute SoF into metal in order to block the laser. I'll also add that Hao's oversoul would also have to be strong enough to withstand the pressure from the laser being shot down from space which considering the scan not only give him FTL reaction time but also hill-busting durability.

3. Um...soul absorption=instant death as you saw in the scans. Also Hao can materialize SoF anywhere with oxygen meaning that he can spontaneously set ablaze object and people on a whim...as I've shown you with the forest, and the X-law dude using the laser, and the X-Laws fighting Hao, and to a certain degree even the island buster. Not sure why that isn't enough for you. I'd post the links again but you seem not to like links for some reason: that and I've already posted the links on this page.

4. Would bust the planet = planet busters even if it is "low tier" and considering Hao's feats prior to the supernova support the claim that he's a planetary threat, there isn't much room for doubt about it. Not sure what point you're trying to argue right now. Do you even know what you're trying to argue right now? Please clarify for me because this will make things a lot easier.

5. If I may ask where are you getting the number 6 from?Because I actually did a count and there's no less than 15 visible trees in my scan and that's not including the one obscured by the blaze.

6. Care to point out the mountains that Tsunade mentions. Even then whether or not its a mountain is still debatable. Take for instance the "mountain" Ichigo busted: it was concluded that it was barely larger than a hill.

7. If Tsunade was clearly out of it after the attack, then she didn't casually tank it: if she did, chances are she would still be ready to fight but as I stated before we'll never know. As for Tsunade being bisected:
http://i33.mangapanda.com/naruto/601/naruto-3582199.jpg

8. I could do some photoshop work and point out how many trees I see but...is that really necessary? Prove it. For an attack to be able to destroy a solar system it would have to cross light-years worth of distance: the fact that it dissipated after being deflected also takes away from its "alleged" capabilities. BTW I have no idea how that example is relevant to this topic.

If you make a claim about something being canon and its not generally known to the person your debating against, then you need scans. It really sounds like you're dodging the question here so I'll resolve the Rasengan feat issue like I did the Orochimaru durability one. "Can he or can't he disintergrate something or large size or high durability with a Giant Rasengan?" show scans if the former is possible please.

So you're saying the Lyserg was the one using the mini-sun now? It WAS Chocolove and Horohoro making the comet, hints the fact that they SAID they were making it, dumb ass.

1. The weight or explosive capacity of the bomb was not given, i.e. It's not tnt, idiot.

2. So Twilight sparkle has instantaneous reaction speed because she can teleport? Meaning that, of course, she can easily stomp Hao? Hill busting? The laser didn't even destroy a small building made of concrete.

3. You have posted no island busters, because they don't exist in Shaman king. I saw the statement that Hao killed them AND THEN absorbed their souls. I saw Hao burning six trees.

4. "If this was the real thing, the planet would be destroyed"=/=This is a planet busting attack. It means the opposite, in fact. He said a supernova would destroy the planet, not Hao's attack that was named Supernova, so stop making shit up.

5. Ooh, fifteeee~een, that's obviously a forrest. Again, show me a full forrest being incinerated by it. Nut up, or shut up.

6. I guess you don't know what a mountain is, so there's no point even debating this further.

7. Once again you deny that she was drained of all her chakra while performing said feat. You also ignored what I said about bisection not meaning anything if the person who did it to you was a mountain buster, idiot.

8. Once again, you're the one who claimed he could burn down a forrest, so YOU'RE the one who has to "prove it". thumb up

Cell's solar kamehameha wave never went into outer space. Once again though, they dissipate, they don't travel forever, retard.

I already did. Naruto vaporized Itachi's Zetsu clone that had 30% of Itachi's strength. Itachi blocked a mountain range busting attack casually, putting his clone at mountain/multi-mountain level. Jiraiya's rasengan's did vastly more, were vastly larger, and Jiraiya was vastly stronger than even the strongest non-biju mode Naruto.

wakkawakkawakka
Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
So you're saying the Lyserg was the one using the mini-sun now? It WAS Chocolove and Horohoro making the comet, hints the fact that they SAID they were making it, dumb ass.

1. The weight or explosive capacity of the bomb was not given, i.e. It's not tnt, idiot.

2. So Twilight sparkle has instantaneous reaction speed because she can teleport? Meaning that, of course, she can easily stomp Hao? Hill busting? The laser didn't even destroy a small building made of concrete.

3. You have posted no island busters, because they don't exist in Shaman king. I saw the statement that Hao killed them AND THEN absorbed their souls. I saw Hao burning six trees.

4. "If this was the real thing, the planet would be destroyed"=/=This is a planet busting attack. It means the opposite, in fact. He said a supernova would destroy the planet, not Hao's attack that was named Supernova, so stop making shit up.

5. Ooh, fifteeee~een, that's obviously a forrest. Again, show me a full forrest being incinerated by it. Nut up, or shut up.

6. I guess you don't know what a mountain is, so there's no point even debating this further.

7. Once again you deny that she was drained of all her chakra while performing said feat. You also ignored what I said about bisection not meaning anything if the person who did it to you was a mountain buster, idiot.

8. Once again, you're the one who claimed he could burn down a forrest, so YOU'RE the one who has to "prove it". thumb up

Cell's solar kamehameha wave never went into outer space. Once again though, they dissipate, they don't travel forever, retard.

I already did. Naruto vaporized Itachi's Zetsu clone that had 30% of Itachi's strength. Itachi blocked a mountain range busting attack casually, putting his clone at mountain/multi-mountain level. Jiraiya's rasengan's did vastly more, were vastly larger, and Jiraiya was vastly stronger than even the strongest non-biju mode Naruto.

That not what I said about Lyserg...here were my exact words:
Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
That was Lyserg blocking the comet and Hao swinging the comet towards the group. Well at least your no longer saying its Chocolove and Horohoro making the comet which is a step in the right direction.


Another thing, first you said this about the comet feat:
Originally posted by SSJGGogeta

So you're telling me that HoroHoro and Chocolove are Hao, now? They are the ones who made the comet and shot it at Hao, not Hao, dumb ass. Maybe stop lying all the time and you won't get embarrassed like this. thumb up


Then you said this about it:
Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Are you retarded? There are two mechs. The one with the giant fireball above it is Hao's, the other is Yoh's. Yoh's is CLEARLY the one shooting the comet, dumb ass.


And now you're going back to Chocolove and Horohor even though they where still blocking the "direct" Solar Prominecne with the giant Iceberg attack. This is some serious flip-flopping dude.

1. Pretty tough talk for someone who's yet to back up any of his scans with any sort of numerical values or comparisons to grander feats: BTW you still never showed me Naruto tanking a point-blank explostion. Also, that's generally how TNT equivalency works and how folks can find out the energy released by a grenade: compare the objects mass to how much energy release when TNT of equal mass is detonated Sure I'll admit using an M67 as a comparison is speculation however even if I'd used a lower power grenade or even a stick of TNT...the X grenade would still clear the mega-joule mark which Hao tanked point blank in a contained area.

2. Teleporting =/= lightspeed also what feat from Twilight are you using? Regardless, Hao was able to transmute SoF and save the guy who initiated the laser attack as well. So you've ignored the laser going right through the cliff the building was under and the fact that it caused a crater right through the building: the only reason that much of the building was intact was because Hao had blocked it.

3. I'm pretty sure I did however I'll gladly show you what it looks like including the time frame for how long it would take to destroy and island. Dude at this point the best thing you could do is argue that its inconclusive:
http://i36.mangapanda.com/shaman-king/262/shaman-king-1812605.jpg
http://i4.mangapanda.com/shaman-king/262/shaman-king-1812607.jpg

Now tell me how the Sannin can prevent soul absorption with scan if you would

4. Usually if something has enough power to destroy the earth(or a planet) that would generally make it a planet buster: not sure what your definition of planet buster is. Meaning that Hao's supernova would've had to release over 2x10^(32) joules over energy on the spot.

5. You're dodging my question again. Answer mine first, prove to me that there were only 6 trees. Even if it were that doesn't take away from the fact that Hao can set ablaze anything he want if there's oxygen present.

6. That cute coming from someone who can't even show me a scan of what they're talking about.

7. No I didn't. Point out where I said those exact words. Also Tsunade was still vulnerable to being stabbed & bisected even when she was in fighting condition. So a blunt force City busting attack isn't a very good feat against a guy who can cause things/people to spontaneously combust.

8. I already showed you a scan that includes another characters stating that he's burning the forest down.

So let me get this straight, if Cell's "Solar System Busting" Kamehameha can't even reach deep space or last long enough to hit something that would cause a chain reaction, then how exactly was it supposed to destroy a solar system?

I specifically asked for Jiraiya not Naruto. I would appreciate if you didn't dodge my questions please.

Also Itachi never tanked a mountain busters. Its been generally accepted that the Uchiha Hideout was the size of a large hill. Even with the Yata Mirror Itachi still lost his Akatsuki cloak showing that he didn't block all of Kirin.

SSJGGogeta
Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
That not what I said about Lyserg...here were my exact words:


Another thing, first you said this about the comet feat:


Then you said this about it:


And now you're going back to Chocolove and Horohor even though they where still blocking the "direct" Solar Prominecne with the giant Iceberg attack. This is some serious flip-flopping dude.

1. Pretty tough talk for someone who's yet to back up any of his scans with any sort of numerical values or comparisons to grander feats: BTW you still never showed me Naruto tanking a point-blank explostion. Also, that's generally how TNT equivalency works and how folks can find out the energy released by a grenade: compare the objects mass to how much energy release when TNT of equal mass is detonated Sure I'll admit using an M67 as a comparison is speculation however even if I'd used a lower power grenade or even a stick of TNT...the X grenade would still clear the mega-joule mark which Hao tanked point blank in a contained area.

2. Teleporting =/= lightspeed also what feat from Twilight are you using? Regardless, Hao was able to transmute SoF and save the guy who initiated the laser attack as well. So you've ignored the laser going right through the cliff the building was under and the fact that it caused a crater right through the building: the only reason that much of the building was intact was because Hao had blocked it.

3. I'm pretty sure I did however I'll gladly show you what it looks like including the time frame for how long it would take to destroy and island. Dude at this point the best thing you could do is argue that its inconclusive:
http://i36.mangapanda.com/shaman-king/262/shaman-king-1812605.jpg
http://i4.mangapanda.com/shaman-king/262/shaman-king-1812607.jpg

Now tell me how the Sannin can prevent soul absorption with scan if you would

4. Usually if something has enough power to destroy the earth(or a planet) that would generally make it a planet buster: not sure what your definition of planet buster is. Meaning that Hao's supernova would've had to release over 2x10^(32) joules over energy on the spot.

5. You're dodging my question again. Answer mine first, prove to me that there were only 6 trees. Even if it were that doesn't take away from the fact that Hao can set ablaze anything he want if there's oxygen present.

6. That cute coming from someone who can't even show me a scan of what they're talking about.

7. No I didn't. Point out where I said those exact words. Also Tsunade was still vulnerable to being stabbed & bisected even when she was in fighting condition. So a blunt force City busting attack isn't a very good feat against a guy who can cause things/people to spontaneously combust.

8. I already showed you a scan that includes another characters stating that he's burning the forest down.

So let me get this straight, if Cell's "Solar System Busting" Kamehameha can't even reach deep space or last long enough to hit something that would cause a chain reaction, then how exactly was it supposed to destroy a solar system?

I specifically asked for Jiraiya not Naruto. I would appreciate if you didn't dodge my questions please.

Also Itachi never tanked a mountain busters. Its been generally accepted that the Uchiha Hideout was the size of a large hill. Even with the Yata Mirror Itachi still lost his Akatsuki cloak showing that he didn't block all of Kirin.

You have to be the phucking densest person I've ever had the displeasure of conversing with for an extended period. You don't even know what you're talking about, when you're the one who brought up the topic in the first place. There are two mechs. One controlled by Hao. One controlled by Lyserg, Yoh, Chocolove, etc. Hao didn't "swing" to comet, you retard, the "good" mech shot it, obviously. I showed the scan to my friend and he could instantly tell what was happening. I don't know how you can be so stupid. I haven't "flip-flopped" once.

1. Tough talk? You still haven't shown a single thing suggesting how strong the grenade was, other than your bs fannon assumptions. BTW, it was never stated to be more than a normal grenade, meaning its explosion was no more concentrated than a normal one. Either way, Naruto still has this.

http://i16.mangapanda.com/naruto/227/naruto-4445.jpg

Him and part 1 Sasuke tanking an explosion just as big as Hao did.

2. Maybe you should tell yourself that, as you're the one comparing light speed to instant transmission. Twilight can teleport. She doesn't have timeless reaction speed. Again, you're saying that surviving something makes you faster than it. By your logic, if I shoot a laser pointer at myself, and don't die, I'm clearly faster than light. You're an idiot, and Hao is nowhere near even mach 20.

3. That's the first time you posted those. Anyway, they are clearly disproven by later statements contradicting those ones. Yoh said that their attacks were nothing comparable to actual elemental hazards they're named after. Even Hao's "sun" when cooled down was not even comparable to a volcano's heat. That kind of inconsistency instantly disproves it. Also, you wouldn't accept the Cell statement, but you accept this? Hm, seems like a word I like to spell as "bias". Fantard.

4. What's so hard to get about this? He didn't say that Hao's attack would destroy Earth, he said a supernova would. He said nothing about Hao planet busting, you ignorant fantard. I can even repost the scan.

5. I don't have to. The scan proves it by showing only six trees. You're claiming there to be more, so show me where it shows a whole forest burning. Why are you dodging my question if you know for A FACT that Hao can instantly vaporize a forest? Are you high? Do you know how vastly hotter a town busting explosion is than a mere human busting one? That's LITERALLY the difference between a trash can fire, and a nuclear bomb. You're retarded, and Hao trying to blow up the Sannin would kill them... of laughter, at how pitiful he is.

6. I can't find the scan, but you can look it up on a wiki if you want, since you're so keen to suggest their validity.

7. Said what? You ignored the fact, and still are ignoring it, that she was completely drained of chakra. You also ignored, you know, what I said about the whole bisecting thing.

8. No you didn't. If so, then show me again, and be sure to include your post as well.

Uh, are you thick? Why didn't Vegeta's final flash destroy the planet? Because he didn't want it to. Again, Cell's Kamehameha was never shot into the sun, or a planet.

What do you think a large hill is, idiot? Also, I was talking about him tanking the small moon busting explosion with Yata mirror, casually while protecting Killer Bee and Naruto. This one.

http://i3.mangapanda.com/naruto/551/naruto-2574853.jpg

Naruto easily vaporized an Itachi with 33% of that ones power, without even going one tailed mode. Jiraiya is above full powered biju level, as I've already proven. I.e. His massive rasengan is about as potent as a biju bomb.

wakkawakkawakka
Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
You have to be the phucking densest person I've ever had the displeasure of conversing with for an extended period. You don't even know what you're talking about, when you're the one who brought up the topic in the first place. There are two mechs. One controlled by Hao. One controlled by Lyserg, Yoh, Chocolove, etc. Hao didn't "swing" to comet, you retard, the "good" mech shot it, obviously. I showed the scan to my friend and he could instantly tell what was happening. I don't know how you can be so stupid. I haven't "flip-flopped" once.

1. Tough talk? You still haven't shown a single thing suggesting how strong the grenade was, other than your bs fannon assumptions. BTW, it was never stated to be more than a normal grenade, meaning its explosion was no more concentrated than a normal one. Either way, Naruto still has this.

http://i16.mangapanda.com/naruto/227/naruto-4445.jpg

Him and part 1 Sasuke tanking an explosion just as big as Hao did.

2. Maybe you should tell yourself that, as you're the one comparing light speed to instant transmission. Twilight can teleport. She doesn't have timeless reaction speed. Again, you're saying that surviving something makes you faster than it. By your logic, if I shoot a laser pointer at myself, and don't die, I'm clearly faster than light. You're an idiot, and Hao is nowhere near even mach 20.

3. That's the first time you posted those. Anyway, they are clearly disproven by later statements contradicting those ones. Yoh said that their attacks were nothing comparable to actual elemental hazards they're named after. Even Hao's "sun" when cooled down was not even comparable to a volcano's heat. That kind of inconsistency instantly disproves it. Also, you wouldn't accept the Cell statement, but you accept this? Hm, seems like a word I like to spell as "bias". Fantard.

4. What's so hard to get about this? He didn't say that Hao's attack would destroy Earth, he said a supernova would. He said nothing about Hao planet busting, you ignorant fantard. I can even repost the scan.

5. I don't have to. The scan proves it by showing only six trees. You're claiming there to be more, so show me where it shows a whole forest burning. Why are you dodging my question if you know for A FACT that Hao can instantly vaporize a forest? Are you high? Do you know how vastly hotter a town busting explosion is than a mere human busting one? That's LITERALLY the difference between a trash can fire, and a nuclear bomb. You're retarded, and Hao trying to blow up the Sannin would kill them... of laughter, at how pitiful he is.

6. I can't find the scan, but you can look it up on a wiki if you want, since you're so keen to suggest their validity.

7. Said what? You ignored the fact, and still are ignoring it, that she was completely drained of chakra. You also ignored, you know, what I said about the whole bisecting thing.

8. No you didn't. If so, then show me again, and be sure to include your post as well.

Uh, are you thick? Why didn't Vegeta's final flash destroy the planet? Because he didn't want it to. Again, Cell's Kamehameha was never shot into the sun, or a planet.

What do you think a large hill is, idiot? Also, I was talking about him tanking the small moon busting explosion with Yata mirror, casually while protecting Killer Bee and Naruto. This one.

http://i3.mangapanda.com/naruto/551/naruto-2574853.jpg

Naruto easily vaporized an Itachi with 33% of that ones power, without even going one tailed mode. Jiraiya is above full powered biju level, as I've already proven. I.e. His massive rasengan is about as potent as a biju bomb.

Dude these were your exact words. you went from this statement:
Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
So you're telling me that HoroHoro and Chocolove are Hao, now? They are the ones who made the comet and shot it at Hao, not Hao, dumb ass. Maybe stop lying all the time and you won't get embarrassed like this. thumb up

To this statement:
Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Are you retarded? There are two mechs. The one with the giant fireball above it is Hao's, the other is Yoh's. Yoh's is CLEARLY the one shooting the comet, dumb ass.


Also does your friend have some scans or figures as to why the Sannin would win. You're still dodging the main question as to what the Sannin could do to Hao. Oh and you can misinterpret the panel till your blue in the face it won't change what's been presented.

1. Oh but that's where your wrong:
http://i14.mangapanda.com/shaman-king/139/shaman-king-1810241.jpg

Also not only is that clash smaller than the arean in which the grenade was but neither Naruto nor Sasuke took it point blank in a contained area: they were pushed back. Also do you have a value of power for that explosion?

You've yet to prove any of my numbers are wrong: Tell me why 4.83x10^(3) joules is wrong, tell me that the mass of a M67 isn't 0.4 kilo grams, tell me that the energy released from M67 isn't 1.67x10^(6) is incorrect. Go ahead argue with generally accepted values from the US military and show you're own numbers as to why you think so. Far as I can tell my numbers are as legit as they can be so to say that I'm wrong on this is to argue with physics: are you really ready to go there?

2. Again these were your words...you were the one who first insinuated that notion:
Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
2. So Twilight sparkle has instantaneous reaction speed because she can teleport? Meaning that, of course, she can easily stomp Hao? Hill busting? The laser didn't even destroy a small building made of concrete.

Oh and do tell how 3x10^(8) m/s is wrong. Go on I'm waiting

And that's not what I said, I said that Hao had to react to the laser in order to transmute SoF. Those were my words and if they weren't exact well here they are now.

3. Planet busting is planet busting and Yoh stated that Hao could've destroyed the planet if those events had actually happened on Earth. Prove otherwise with scans sir. Hao's previous feats support the notion that he can destroy the planet. Cell's feats do not support the notion he can destroy a solar system that's why.

Oh BTW I did post those you just don't like clicking links remember? And when are you going to give me a reason as to why I should believe the Sannin could resist Soul Absorption?

4. Hao's attack was the Supernova: prove otherwise or your wrong.

5. Yes you do. You made a claim now be a big boy and back up your statement with scans, numbers, or author quotes. If you don't do one of the three your statement becomes discredited: this is how KMC works not sure why this is a problem for you. I showed you Hao vaporizing a forest, you showed me Jiraiya using a fireball that didn't destroy anything noteworthy.

6. That's not my problem. You made a claim and couldn't deliver, meaning that I can discredit your statement about Tsunade pointing to a mountain.

7. Where did I disagree with Tsunade being drained. Also being drained of chakra and not being in any condition to fight afterwards means that Tsunade did not casually tank the city busters because in your own words "she was completely drained of chakra. Oh and as for the bisection, I'm really not sure what your arguing. Tsunade got bisected, end of story unless of course you want to argue that the tree could crush mountains: it probably could but can you prove it?

8. We since you asked "so nicely" here is when I asked:
Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka

If you're so confident in this feat then how about showing me a scan of Jiraiya using the Giant Rasengan on something. Oh and I really hate to do this to Jiraiya but I have to mention it: the dude has never won a fight in canon despite his display of power in the story. Would love some scans showing otherwise.

Um...that's nice, but it has nothing to do with this. If Cell's attack was capably of destroying a solar system, the energy released would not only have to travel far but also be capable of destroying multiple planets which it didn't.

Okay then could you clarify what you are talking about? If you don't they I just have to assume what you're implying. Also as I've stated before the Yata Mirror couldn't protect Itachi from all of Kirin, in addition to the fact he already had Susanoo up when destroying the Chibaku Tensei along with Naruto and Bee. BTW none of this has anything to do with the Sannin so stop derailing the topic if you would.

You're acting like 33% is a big number and again Itachi is not a Sannin and as mentioned above I specifically asked for a feat from Jiraiya.

SSJGGogeta
Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
Dude these were your exact words. you went from this statement:

To this statement:


Also does your friend have some scans or figures as to why the Sannin would win. You're still dodging the main question as to what the Sannin could do to Hao. Oh and you can misinterpret the panel till your blue in the face it won't change what's been presented.

1. Oh but that's where your wrong:
http://i14.mangapanda.com/shaman-king/139/shaman-king-1810241.jpg

Also not only is that clash smaller than the arean in which the grenade was but neither Naruto nor Sasuke took it point blank in a contained area: they were pushed back. Also do you have a value of power for that explosion?

You've yet to prove any of my numbers are wrong: Tell me why 4.83x10^(3) joules is wrong, tell me that the mass of a M67 isn't 0.4 kilo grams, tell me that the energy released from M67 isn't 1.67x10^(6) is incorrect. Go ahead argue with generally accepted values from the US military and show you're own numbers as to why you think so. Far as I can tell my numbers are as legit as they can be so to say that I'm wrong on this is to argue with physics: are you really ready to go there?

2. Again these were your words...you were the one who first insinuated that notion:

Oh and do tell how 3x10^(8) m/s is wrong. Go on I'm waiting

And that's not what I said, I said that Hao had to react to the laser in order to transmute SoF. Those were my words and if they weren't exact well here they are now.

3. Planet busting is planet busting and Yoh stated that Hao could've destroyed the planet if those events had actually happened on Earth. Prove otherwise with scans sir. Hao's previous feats support the notion that he can destroy the planet. Cell's feats do not support the notion he can destroy a solar system that's why.

Oh BTW I did post those you just don't like clicking links remember? And when are you going to give me a reason as to why I should believe the Sannin could resist Soul Absorption?

4. Hao's attack was the Supernova: prove otherwise or your wrong.

5. Yes you do. You made a claim now be a big boy and back up your statement with scans, numbers, or author quotes. If you don't do one of the three your statement becomes discredited: this is how KMC works not sure why this is a problem for you. I showed you Hao vaporizing a forest, you showed me Jiraiya using a fireball that didn't destroy anything noteworthy.

6. That's not my problem. You made a claim and couldn't deliver, meaning that I can discredit your statement about Tsunade pointing to a mountain.

7. Where did I disagree with Tsunade being drained. Also being drained of chakra and not being in any condition to fight afterwards means that Tsunade did not casually tank the city busters because in your own words "she was completely drained of chakra. Oh and as for the bisection, I'm really not sure what your arguing. Tsunade got bisected, end of story unless of course you want to argue that the tree could crush mountains: it probably could but can you prove it?

8. We since you asked "so nicely" here is when I asked:


Um...that's nice, but it has nothing to do with this. If Cell's attack was capably of destroying a solar system, the energy released would not only have to travel far but also be capable of destroying multiple planets which it didn't.

Okay then could you clarify what you are talking about? If you don't they I just have to assume what you're implying. Also as I've stated before the Yata Mirror couldn't protect Itachi from all of Kirin, in addition to the fact he already had Susanoo up when destroying the Chibaku Tensei along with Naruto and Bee. BTW none of this has anything to do with the Sannin so stop derailing the topic if you would.

You're acting like 33% is a big number and again Itachi is not a Sannin and as mentioned above I specifically asked for a feat from Jiraiya.

Why are you so phucking stupid?

I already explained it, it's not my fault that you're too dumb to understand that a tail comes from behind a comet, and not the front.

No I haven't. My point was that the Sannin have demonstrated destructive capacity VASTLY superior to Hao, and can therefore easily kill him because they've shown vastly greater strength. Again, Hao gets shat on.

1. What do you think was the epicenter? What do you think pushed them back? Are you high? Okay, 5 grenades, that's still not equivalent to the scan I gave of one, a forest clearing being decimated by one paper bomb, or two, Sasuke and Naruto creating and easily tanking an explosion that was larger than a waterfall.

2. Wasn't it you who first claimed that using a shield didn't count as actual durability. Hmm, also, transmuting the SOF was something he did as it was exploding, otherwise it wouldn't have done anything to the building. If not, prove that he did, otherwise, that reaction calc is still bullshit.

3. http://z.mhcdn.net/store/manga/5524/27-299.0/compressed/qm_t_sk_kzb299pg23.jpg?v=11248493143

Where is it you think they're fighting? OUTER SPACE. Yoh STATED that if it was an actual supernova/IRL, it would have destroyed the planet. There was nothing said about Hao's attack.

Cooler could star bust, so it makes obvious sense that someone much stronger could solar system bust. Simple logic, you idiot.

When are you going to prove that Hao didn't kill them AND THEN absorb their souls, like Yoh said he did? Until you do, which you can't, I can safely assume that the sannin with durabilities vastly superior to what Hao's disintegration has shown capable of doing, would safely tank it.

4. I just did. You're wrong.

5. How phucking hard is it to understand what burden of proof is? You claimed Hao destroyed a whole forrest, when there were demonstrably only a few trees. FOR THE LAST TIME, SHOW ME A SCAN OF AN ENTIRE FORREST BEING BURNED, WITH MORE THAN TEN TREES, OR IT DIDN'T HAPPEN. thumb up

No, you showed me Hao burning an entire six trees, I showed you Jiraiya conjuring a mountain sized fireball casually.

thumb up

6. Tough titty. Go look up a wiki, I forget when it even happened, but I know it did. If not, then whatever.

7. You didn't, you completely ignored it, like you still are. She was completely drained of chakra, and then tanked a small country busting attack. I.e. She can casually tank small country busting attacks with full chakra. A-phucking-gain, what does bisecting have to do with anything when you're bisected by something stronger than you can tank? Madara used wood style to create a forrest in one second. Not to mention that he needs rinnegan active to use it, which is stronger than his EMS, or in other words stronger than his Susano'o. That fact alone puts his wood style at high mountain tier casually. You even just admitted it yourself.

8. That's not what I was saying for you to provide, idiot. I said provide the scan you said you did provide, which was "another characters stating that he's burning the forest down.", according to you. Go ahead. Still waiting.

Uh, that's cute, but it actually does, idiot. Same with Frieza, DBZ characters can handily blow up planets and galaxies and even universes, but they don't because they want a challenge. Why do you think Kid Buu didn't blow up the Supreme Kai's world while fighting Goku? Same with Cell, they can easily dissipate their attacks and control them, as demonstrated by kid Trunks. I have a scan if you need it.

I already gave a scan. You know, Itachi casually blocking the combined explosions of Massive rasenshuriken, Full powered eight tails biju bomb, Yasaka magatama, and Planetary devastation. In other words, the explosion that blew up a small moon, and dwarfed a giant mountain range. thumb up

The feat I gave was to show that Naruto could do one third of that, in other words multi-mountain bust in his weakest shippuden form from the start of the series. Jiraiya>>>>>1/3rd Itachi=Early Naruto>Mountain busting. thumb up

wakkawakkawakka
Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Why are you so phucking stupid?

I already explained it, it's not my fault that you're too dumb to understand that a tail comes from behind a comet, and not the front.

No I haven't. My point was that the Sannin have demonstrated destructive capacity VASTLY superior to Hao, and can therefore easily kill him because they've shown vastly greater strength. Again, Hao gets shat on.

1. What do you think was the epicenter? What do you think pushed them back? Are you high? Okay, 5 grenades, that's still not equivalent to the scan I gave of one, a forest clearing being decimated by one paper bomb, or two, Sasuke and Naruto creating and easily tanking an explosion that was larger than a waterfall.

2. Wasn't it you who first claimed that using a shield didn't count as actual durability. Hmm, also, transmuting the SOF was something he did as it was exploding, otherwise it wouldn't have done anything to the building. If not, prove that he did, otherwise, that reaction calc is still bullshit.

3. http://z.mhcdn.net/store/manga/5524/27-299.0/compressed/qm_t_sk_kzb299pg23.jpg?v=11248493143

Where is it you think they're fighting? OUTER SPACE. Yoh STATED that if it was an actual supernova/IRL, it would have destroyed the planet. There was nothing said about Hao's attack.

Cooler could star bust, so it makes obvious sense that someone much stronger could solar system bust. Simple logic, you idiot.

When are you going to prove that Hao didn't kill them AND THEN absorb their souls, like Yoh said he did? Until you do, which you can't, I can safely assume that the sannin with durabilities vastly superior to what Hao's disintegration has shown capable of doing, would safely tank it.

4. I just did. You're wrong.

5. How phucking hard is it to understand what burden of proof is? You claimed Hao destroyed a whole forrest, when there were demonstrably only a few trees. FOR THE LAST TIME, SHOW ME A SCAN OF AN ENTIRE FORREST BEING BURNED, WITH MORE THAN TEN TREES, OR IT DIDN'T HAPPEN. thumb up

No, you showed me Hao burning an entire six trees, I showed you Jiraiya conjuring a mountain sized fireball casually.

thumb up

6. Tough titty. Go look up a wiki, I forget when it even happened, but I know it did. If not, then whatever.

7. You didn't, you completely ignored it, like you still are. She was completely drained of chakra, and then tanked a small country busting attack. I.e. She can casually tank small country busting attacks with full chakra. A-phucking-gain, what does bisecting have to do with anything when you're bisected by something stronger than you can tank? Madara used wood style to create a forrest in one second. Not to mention that he needs rinnegan active to use it, which is stronger than his EMS, or in other words stronger than his Susano'o. That fact alone puts his wood style at high mountain tier casually. You even just admitted it yourself.

8. That's not what I was saying for you to provide, idiot. I said provide the scan you said you did provide, which was "another characters stating that he's burning the forest down.", according to you. Go ahead. Still waiting.

Uh, that's cute, but it actually does, idiot. Same with Frieza, DBZ characters can handily blow up planets and galaxies and even universes, but they don't because they want a challenge. Why do you think Kid Buu didn't blow up the Supreme Kai's world while fighting Goku? Same with Cell, they can easily dissipate their attacks and control them, as demonstrated by kid Trunks. I have a scan if you need it.

I already gave a scan. You know, Itachi casually blocking the combined explosions of Massive rasenshuriken, Full powered eight tails biju bomb, Yasaka magatama, and Planetary devastation. In other words, the explosion that blew up a small moon, and dwarfed a giant mountain range. thumb up

The feat I gave was to show that Naruto could do one third of that, in other words multi-mountain bust in his weakest shippuden form from the start of the series. Jiraiya>>>>>1/3rd Itachi=Early Naruto>Mountain busting. thumb up

So now your trying to argue that the way Hao swung the comet blade is wrong? Really? Oh and you didn't answer my previous question as to which statement you meant earlier. Make up you mind.

1. Hao was right at the center when it detonated. Yeah a grenade with 5x the power going off in Hao's face in a contained area. You say that but have yet to prove anything so I can conclude that your wrong until you show otherwise.

2. Hao blocked a light-speed attack. Not sure what you're trying to get at with using my own words against me but it still falls flat. Its funny how you can't seem to show me feats so you've had to resort to bashing the ones I've posted: Oh and answer my question about 3x10^(8) m/s being wrong.

3. Yeah, that means that if the fight took place on Earth, the supernova would've destroyed it. Again clarify your arguments: better yet actually make an argument instead of fabricating stories based on the stuff I posted. Hao's a low-tier planet buster with GS oh and Hao still has the Black Hole feat. You are aware of how Black Holes are created right? Here's a quick definition in case you were curious:
http://www.nasa.gov/audience/forstudents/5-8/features/what-is-a-black-hole-58.html

Oh and it just so happens that Hao's Black Hole is created in the exact same way:
http://i12.mangapanda.com/shaman-king/299/shaman-king-735415.jpg

Cooler can star bust? Prove it. Because the last time I checked Cooler was killed by a star. Oh andonce again DBZ has nothing to do with this.

To answer your question would require you to answer mine about where are you getting the number 6 from. Can you point out the trees you see with an edited image?

Oh and the point about Hao killing someone first was your point not mine unless you want to find a statement where I said that.

4. Would you mind being a big boy and showing me exactly what your talking about. I have no problem showing you the same scan multiple time so its only fair you show me the same courtesy right?

5. I heard excuses but don't see any scans from you. Oh and again for me to answer your question about Hao burning the forest requires you to answer mine first since I asked first anyhow.

6. Excuses...excuses. I shouldn't have to prove your point for you. If you can't prove the validity of your own argument then your wrong.

7. Then it wasn't casual. If Tsunade had casually tanked it as you are implying then it wouldn't have mattered if she was drained of chakra, she would still be just fine: that's usually what casually tanking something implies. Show me a tree, mountain busting: this should actually be doable if your willing to look for the scan. Also what resistance does Tsunade have to being burned alive?

8. I already did, in fact its still on this page but here you go...again:
http://i14.mangapanda.com/shaman-king/250/shaman-king-178236.jpg

Forest engulfed in flames

DBZ has nothing to do with this so stop bringing it up. You can't actually prove any of my feats wrong so you're trying to argue about other subjects entirely. Nice strategy but not going to happen

That still doesn't answer the question about Kirin and how can you be sure Itachi was using the Yata Mirror. Furthermore, what does Itachi have to do with this: you're derailing the thread again considering Itachi is not a Sannin. You could make a Hao vs Itachi thread if your that concerned about it but that has nothing to do with them.

I don't care about Naruto I want a Jiraiya scan considering this thread deals with the Sannin. You said Jiraiya could do something so prove that he can.

SSJGGogeta
Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
So now your trying to argue that the way Hao swung the comet blade is wrong? Really? Oh and you didn't answer my previous question as to which statement you meant earlier. Make up you mind.

1. Hao was right at the center when it detonated. Yeah a grenade with 5x the power going off in Hao's face in a contained area. You say that but have yet to prove anything so I can conclude that your wrong until you show otherwise.

2. Hao blocked a light-speed attack. Not sure what you're trying to get at with using my own words against me but it still falls flat. Its funny how you can't seem to show me feats so you've had to resort to bashing the ones I've posted: Oh and answer my question about 3x10^(8) m/s being wrong.

3. Yeah, that means that if the fight took place on Earth, the supernova would've destroyed it. Again clarify your arguments: better yet actually make an argument instead of fabricating stories based on the stuff I posted. Hao's a low-tier planet buster with GS oh and Hao still has the Black Hole feat. You are aware of how Black Holes are created right? Here's a quick definition in case you were curious:
http://www.nasa.gov/audience/forstudents/5-8/features/what-is-a-black-hole-58.html

Oh and it just so happens that Hao's Black Hole is created in the exact same way:
http://i12.mangapanda.com/shaman-king/299/shaman-king-735415.jpg

Cooler can star bust? Prove it. Because the last time I checked Cooler was killed by a star. Oh andonce again DBZ has nothing to do with this.

To answer your question would require you to answer mine about where are you getting the number 6 from. Can you point out the trees you see with an edited image?

Oh and the point about Hao killing someone first was your point not mine unless you want to find a statement where I said that.

4. Would you mind being a big boy and showing me exactly what your talking about. I have no problem showing you the same scan multiple time so its only fair you show me the same courtesy right?

5. I heard excuses but don't see any scans from you. Oh and again for me to answer your question about Hao burning the forest requires you to answer mine first since I asked first anyhow.

6. Excuses...excuses. I shouldn't have to prove your point for you. If you can't prove the validity of your own argument then your wrong.

7. Then it wasn't casual. If Tsunade had casually tanked it as you are implying then it wouldn't have mattered if she was drained of chakra, she would still be just fine: that's usually what casually tanking something implies. Show me a tree, mountain busting: this should actually be doable if your willing to look for the scan. Also what resistance does Tsunade have to being burned alive?

8. I already did, in fact its still on this page but here you go...again:
http://i14.mangapanda.com/shaman-king/250/shaman-king-178236.jpg

Forest engulfed in flames

DBZ has nothing to do with this so stop bringing it up. You can't actually prove any of my feats wrong so you're trying to argue about other subjects entirely. Nice strategy but not going to happen

That still doesn't answer the question about Kirin and how can you be sure Itachi was using the Yata Mirror. Furthermore, what does Itachi have to do with this: you're derailing the thread again considering Itachi is not a Sannin. You could make a Hao vs Itachi thread if your that concerned about it but that has nothing to do with them.

I don't care about Naruto I want a Jiraiya scan considering this thread deals with the Sannin. You said Jiraiya could do something so prove that he can.

What?! WHERE DID YOU GET COMET BLADE FROM? The good mech shot a comet at Hao, which is why the stream was coming from the "good" mech, idiot.

1. First off, I don't know why you keep saying contained area. It went off in a huge room, the explosion didn't hit every outer wall of the room. Also, the size of the explosion from Naruto and Sasuke's collision was MUCH larger. Since you're using tnt to calc from, and Rasengan/Chidori have shown feats similar to tnt like blowing through steel, I can calc that explosion to have an AOE of 225 ft., meaning it's exactly five times stronger than an M67 grenade, just like the one Hao tanked. That is LITERALLY Part 1 Naruto with a feat of durability as great as Hao's.

2. And? What does that have to do with anything? It's not like he was fighting and someone used a light speed attack. He knew WHEN, WHERE, AND HOW FAST the attack was going to hit. He had ample time to prepare for it. Again, you're literally saying that Orochimaru is faster than a Biju bomb and that Twilight sparkle can react and move to timeless occurrences, meaning no one short of gods or DBZ characters can hit her, including Hao. Again, answer me this. I blocked a light speed attack, because I held my hand up to a laser pointer and pointed it at my hand while turning it on. Does that, or does that not, make me light speed? Remember, whatever answer you give is the same answer you need to give for Hao, as the instances are literally the exact same.

3. No, actually, as the scan states, that means that if it was a real supernova, Earth would be destroyed. You're forgetting that they were right next to Earth. Again, Yoh said that in real life, a supernova would destroy Earth. He said nothing about Hao or his attack. So, to quote you, "you can misinterpret the panel till your blue in the face it won't change what's been presented.". thumb up

Wrong again. Hao explained what happens when a star collapses. He said nothing about his attack. Again, the name of an attack means nothing. You're LITERALLY saying that Vegeta can casually shoot a ki blast with the combined force of the big bang. You're LITERALLY saying that Tien can create a giant wave of flame and radiation by holding his hands to his head. You're LITERALLY saying that Ichigo can cut heaven by swinging his sword. You're LITERALLY saying that, for some reason, Luffy can literally shoot elephants out of a gatling gun. Holy shit, you're retarded. no

I take it you've never seen the Cooler movie. While being shot at the sun on his attack and Goku's kamehameha wave, he said in his head while looking at the sun, "Hm? Oh, that must be this planets star. Perfect! I'll just blow it up and leave this monkey to freeze to death! Wait a second... I-I'm heading right towards it!". I.e. Cooler can star bust. Not to mention that first form Frieza blew up a planet ten times the size of Earth by pointing at it casually. Sheer power scaling puts Cooler at multi-solar system busting, something Cell can do with his least explosive attack. thumb up

4. You just said it yourself. You posted it multiple times, "big boy". Again, Yoh said nothing about Hao or his attack.

5. Do you even know what you're talking about anymore? I already showed the scans. Jiraiya shooting a mountain sized fireball, and Hao demonstrably burning no more than six trees.

FOR THE LAST TIME, SHOW ME HAO BURNING AN ACTUAL FOREST WHERE THERE ARE MORE THAN SIX TREES, OR IT DIDN'T HAPPEN. Oh wait, YOU CAN'T. You know why? BECAUSE THAT'S A TRANSLATION ERROR.

6. Whatever. It doesn't matter anyway.

7. Are you mentally handicapped? Tanking something while already completely exhausted means you can obviously tank it casually while healthy.

http://i16.mangapanda.com/naruto/621/naruto-3930621.jpg

What about this?

http://i35.mangapanda.com/naruto/621/naruto-3930643.jpg

Or this?

I don't know why you insist on me showing these feats when you clearly know them. BTW, they do count as Madara's feats, as even Tsunade said Madara's wood style was equal to Hashirama's.

8. I've seen that. I can count about twelve trees, and six small pillars of flame. Show me a demonstrable FOREST, as in thousands of trees, next to something like a mountain to show size. Otherwise, Hao's still a twelve tree buster, which is, again, nothing to Jiraiya's mountain sized flame.

So it's fine for you to use powerscaling based off of assumption to find a grenades power, but it's not okay for me to use it based off of cannon feats and scans to find Jiraiya's power? You're probably the most biased, socially-retarded, ignorant person I've ever met.

How's that for proof? Again, Jiraiya's massive Rasengan has mountain level potency. If you don't think so, then disprove one thing I've said.

wakkawakkawakka
Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
What?! WHERE DID YOU GET COMET BLADE FROM? The good mech shot a comet at Hao, which is why the stream was coming from the "good" mech, idiot.

1. First off, I don't know why you keep saying contained area. It went off in a huge room, the explosion didn't hit every outer wall of the room. Also, the size of the explosion from Naruto and Sasuke's collision was MUCH larger. Since you're using tnt to calc from, and Rasengan/Chidori have shown feats similar to tnt like blowing through steel, I can calc that explosion to have an AOE of 225 ft., meaning it's exactly five times stronger than an M67 grenade, just like the one Hao tanked. That is LITERALLY Part 1 Naruto with a feat of durability as great as Hao's.

2. And? What does that have to do with anything? It's not like he was fighting and someone used a light speed attack. He knew WHEN, WHERE, AND HOW FAST the attack was going to hit. He had ample time to prepare for it. Again, you're literally saying that Orochimaru is faster than a Biju bomb and that Twilight sparkle can react and move to timeless occurrences, meaning no one short of gods or DBZ characters can hit her, including Hao. Again, answer me this. I blocked a light speed attack, because I held my hand up to a laser pointer and pointed it at my hand while turning it on. Does that, or does that not, make me light speed? Remember, whatever answer you give is the same answer you need to give for Hao, as the instances are literally the exact same.

3. No, actually, as the scan states, that means that if it was a real supernova, Earth would be destroyed. You're forgetting that they were right next to Earth. Again, Yoh said that in real life, a supernova would destroy Earth. He said nothing about Hao or his attack. So, to quote you, "you can misinterpret the panel till your blue in the face it won't change what's been presented.". thumb up

Wrong again. Hao explained what happens when a star collapses. He said nothing about his attack. Again, the name of an attack means nothing. You're LITERALLY saying that Vegeta can casually shoot a ki blast with the combined force of the big bang. You're LITERALLY saying that Tien can create a giant wave of flame and radiation by holding his hands to his head. You're LITERALLY saying that Ichigo can cut heaven by swinging his sword. You're LITERALLY saying that, for some reason, Luffy can literally shoot elephants out of a gatling gun. Holy shit, you're retarded. no

I take it you've never seen the Cooler movie. While being shot at the sun on his attack and Goku's kamehameha wave, he said in his head while looking at the sun, "Hm? Oh, that must be this planets star. Perfect! I'll just blow it up and leave this monkey to freeze to death! Wait a second... I-I'm heading right towards it!". I.e. Cooler can star bust. Not to mention that first form Frieza blew up a planet ten times the size of Earth by pointing at it casually. Sheer power scaling puts Cooler at multi-solar system busting, something Cell can do with his least explosive attack. thumb up

4. You just said it yourself. You posted it multiple times, "big boy". Again, Yoh said nothing about Hao or his attack.

5. Do you even know what you're talking about anymore? I already showed the scans. Jiraiya shooting a mountain sized fireball, and Hao demonstrably burning no more than six trees.

FOR THE LAST TIME, SHOW ME HAO BURNING AN ACTUAL FOREST WHERE THERE ARE MORE THAN SIX TREES, OR IT DIDN'T HAPPEN. Oh wait, YOU CAN'T. You know why? BECAUSE THAT'S A TRANSLATION ERROR.

6. Whatever. It doesn't matter anyway.

7. Are you mentally handicapped? Tanking something while already completely exhausted means you can obviously tank it casually while healthy.

http://i16.mangapanda.com/naruto/621/naruto-3930621.jpg

What about this?

http://i35.mangapanda.com/naruto/621/naruto-3930643.jpg

Or this?

I don't know why you insist on me showing these feats when you clearly know them. BTW, they do count as Madara's feats, as even Tsunade said Madara's wood style was equal to Hashirama's.

8. I've seen that. I can count about twelve trees, and six small pillars of flame. Show me a demonstrable FOREST, as in thousands of trees, next to something like a mountain to show size. Otherwise, Hao's still a twelve tree buster, which is, again, nothing to Jiraiya's mountain sized flame.

So it's fine for you to use powerscaling based off of assumption to find a grenades power, but it's not okay for me to use it based off of cannon feats and scans to find Jiraiya's power? You're probably the most biased, socially-retarded, ignorant person I've ever met.

How's that for proof? Again, Jiraiya's massive Rasengan has mountain level potency. If you don't think so, then disprove one thing I've said.

Hao used the comet as a blade. Now you're arguing semantics since once again you can't actually prove that Hao didn't do it. Still waiting for you to answer my question.

1. Contained area as in this space:?http://i37.mangapanda.com/shaman-king/139/shaman-king-1810249.jpg

Also where did you get 225 ft from? Like I said neither Naruto nor Sasuke took the full force of the collision: they were sent back as seen on the scan you posted. And what power was behind the collision? If you're gong to use numbers its advised that you let people know where you got the numbers from. Would you stop bringing up non-Naruto related examples and focus on the Sannin please.

2. Hao was still able to transmute his element in order to block the attack. That is a feat for lightspeed reaction time. Can you show me any of the Sannin with a comparable feat? I don't think so. Except for the fact that Hao hadn't transmuted SoF prior to the laser being fired so that hand example is in the wrong context.

3. So you're saying you don't know how Black Holes are made even after I gave you a definition for it. Your being dishonest with me and yourself in that regard and its not cool. Also when an explanation to the attacks function matches the explanation for the real thing it still counts as a Black Hole

Also Yoh's words exactly " If this were real life, though, such an incredible power would have disintegrated the Earth. I'm sure" In reference to the supernova the group survived. Prove otherwise.

4. I don't see anything yet. Go ahead I'll wait.

5. Tell me where the 6 trees number came from and I'll answer your question. Along with that show me Jiraiya destroying a mountain: an actual mountain non of that mountain range stuff, I want visible evidence of something he destroying being equal to a mountain.

6. So I'm right then. Progress.

7. Circumstance, and that only applies after you tanked something not before. Meaning that if your were okay before the attack and are not okay afterwards then you didn't casually tank the attack in question. Which reminds me Tsunade wasn't exhausted at all prior to the attack.

So you are capable of finding scans. Good job, now tell me how that relates to Tsunade being bisected. Also Tsunade has been hurt by less... Kabuto for instance.

Where did you get that number from? And what mountain, what frame of reference are you scaling the fireball from? I've already shown you that the frogs themselves aren't bigger than mountains. Here I'll use the anime version since its secondary canon and matches up to the primary.
rIJArkNEK9U

Edit: Skip to 58:04 for the fireball

When the grenade has a comparable real world value and its functionality is stated in the scan, then yes it is. Meanwhile the Jiraiya feat not only hasn't destroyed anything, but it isn't even as big as a mountain.

Still not going to show me the scan. I'd shut up if you would post something but since you can't back up your own claim then why should I believe you

SSJGGogeta
Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
Hao used the comet as a blade. Now you're arguing semantics since once again you can't actually prove that Hao didn't do it. Still waiting for you to answer my question.

1. Contained area as in this space:?http://i37.mangapanda.com/shaman-king/139/shaman-king-1810249.jpg

Also where did you get 225 ft from? Like I said neither Naruto nor Sasuke took the full force of the collision: they were sent back as seen on the scan you posted. And what power was behind the collision? If you're gong to use numbers its advised that you let people know where you got the numbers from. Would you stop bringing up non-Naruto related examples and focus on the Sannin please.

2. Hao was still able to transmute his element in order to block the attack. That is a feat for lightspeed reaction time. Can you show me any of the Sannin with a comparable feat? I don't think so. Except for the fact that Hao hadn't transmuted SoF prior to the laser being fired so that hand example is in the wrong context.

3. So you're saying you don't know how Black Holes are made even after I gave you a definition for it. Your being dishonest with me and yourself in that regard and its not cool. Also when an explanation to the attacks function matches the explanation for the real thing it still counts as a Black Hole

Also Yoh's words exactly " If this were real life, though, such an incredible power would have disintegrated the Earth. I'm sure" In reference to the supernova the group survived. Prove otherwise.

4. I don't see anything yet. Go ahead I'll wait.

5. Tell me where the 6 trees number came from and I'll answer your question. Along with that show me Jiraiya destroying a mountain: an actual mountain non of that mountain range stuff, I want visible evidence of something he destroying being equal to a mountain.

6. So I'm right then. Progress.

7. Circumstance, and that only applies after you tanked something not before. Meaning that if your were okay before the attack and are not okay afterwards then you didn't casually tank the attack in question. Which reminds me Tsunade wasn't exhausted at all prior to the attack.

So you are capable of finding scans. Good job, now tell me how that relates to Tsunade being bisected. Also Tsunade has been hurt by less... Kabuto for instance.

Where did you get that number from? And what mountain, what frame of reference are you scaling the fireball from? I've already shown you that the frogs themselves aren't bigger than mountains. Here I'll use the anime version since its secondary canon and matches up to the primary.
rIJArkNEK9U

Edit: Skip to 58:04 for the fireball

When the grenade has a comparable real world value and its functionality is stated in the scan, then yes it is. Meanwhile the Jiraiya feat not only hasn't destroyed anything, but it isn't even as big as a mountain.

Still not going to show me the scan. I'd shut up if you would post something but since you can't back up your own claim then why should I believe you

I already did. The fact that it was just "comet" and not "comet blade" is proof enough. Your "Nope, I won't accept it" argument is getting you nowhere, and in fact proving how dumb you are.

1. Uh, the grenade didn't expand to the volume of the container, so again, it wasn't contained, only surrounded. It still expanded as much as it could. I got 225 ft. from pixel scaling, assuming Sasuke and Naruto were 5 feet tall. From there, you can use a ruler to see how far the explosions force traveled. I did say where I got the force from. The same place you did, which for my calc was honestly low-balling. Rasengan and Chidori have both casually vaporized and burst through steel, which normal grenades can't do. Either way, my calc is just as accurate as yours, and since the explosions are the same amount stronger than grenades, the joules released is the same too. How was that a non-naruto example?

2. So I'm light speed too? I guess everyone is light speed. Sweet! Again, you've just proven yourself wrong, so I win. Idiot.

3. Once again, Hao described how black holes formed, and said nothing about his attack. So, once again, you fail.

4. http://z.mhcdn.net/store/manga/65/33-299.0/compressed/himg021.jpg?v=11365747844

Right here, idiot. Yoh clearly says NOTHING about Hao's attack, other than the fact that it is not a real supernova, FURTHER ELABORATING WHAT HE SAID EARLIER.

5. http://i14.mangapanda.com/shaman-king/250/shaman-king-178236.jpg

From this scan. There are twelve trees, count 'em, TWELVE trees, and six roughly 30 feet high fire pillars. Show me a scan of a forest with more than twelve trees burning, or, FOR THE LAST TIME, it didn't happen. Oh, and, ya' know, the whole "trans error" thing.

6. No, you're just too stupid to look up a wiki.

7. SHE WAS ALREADY DRAINED. You're LITERALLY suggesting that durability is the same when healthy as on your deathbed. This implication proves you retarded, therefor you have again proven me right.

You neglect the fact that Tsunade was not hurt by Kabuto, she was paralyzed by his jutsu, and that she wasn't even fighting back, to the point where she even let Orochimaru stab her in the chest.

So because the Zhar bomb never destroyed anything, and was used only one a test site, it can't destroy a small country? Same principal with Jiraiya, he didn't shoot anything, but the explosion still dwarfed mountains. If you want, I can give a calc that puts his fireball at multiple megatons, something that Hao would be instantly atomized by.

Look back to the original cannon manga. The fireball was dwarfing mountains. I already proved this.

How have I not posted proof? I already posted this. Jiraiya>>>>>1/3rd Itachi=Early Naruto>Mountain busting, that is proof enough of his attack potency. Accept or disprove it, which I know you can't.

wakkawakkawakka
Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
I already did. The fact that it was just "comet" and not "comet blade" is proof enough. Your "Nope, I won't accept it" argument is getting you nowhere, and in fact proving how dumb you are.

1. Uh, the grenade didn't expand to the volume of the container, so again, it wasn't contained, only surrounded. It still expanded as much as it could. I got 225 ft. from pixel scaling, assuming Sasuke and Naruto were 5 feet tall. From there, you can use a ruler to see how far the explosions force traveled. I did say where I got the force from. The same place you did, which for my calc was honestly low-balling. Rasengan and Chidori have both casually vaporized and burst through steel, which normal grenades can't do. Either way, my calc is just as accurate as yours, and since the explosions are the same amount stronger than grenades, the joules released is the same too. How was that a non-naruto example?

2. So I'm light speed too? I guess everyone is light speed. Sweet! Again, you've just proven yourself wrong, so I win. Idiot.

3. Once again, Hao described how black holes formed, and said nothing about his attack. So, once again, you fail.

4. http://z.mhcdn.net/store/manga/65/33-299.0/compressed/himg021.jpg?v=11365747844

Right here, idiot. Yoh clearly says NOTHING about Hao's attack, other than the fact that it is not a real supernova, FURTHER ELABORATING WHAT HE SAID EARLIER.

5. http://i14.mangapanda.com/shaman-king/250/shaman-king-178236.jpg

From this scan. There are twelve trees, count 'em, TWELVE trees, and six roughly 30 feet high fire pillars. Show me a scan of a forest with more than twelve trees burning, or, FOR THE LAST TIME, it didn't happen. Oh, and, ya' know, the whole "trans error" thing.

6. No, you're just too stupid to look up a wiki.

7. SHE WAS ALREADY DRAINED. You're LITERALLY suggesting that durability is the same when healthy as on your deathbed. This implication proves you retarded, therefor you have again proven me right.

You neglect the fact that Tsunade was not hurt by Kabuto, she was paralyzed by his jutsu, and that she wasn't even fighting back, to the point where she even let Orochimaru stab her in the chest.

So because the Zhar bomb never destroyed anything, and was used only one a test site, it can't destroy a small country? Same principal with Jiraiya, he didn't shoot anything, but the explosion still dwarfed mountains. If you want, I can give a calc that puts his fireball at multiple megatons, something that Hao would be instantly atomized by.

Look back to the original cannon manga. The fireball was dwarfing mountains. I already proved this.

How have I not posted proof? I already posted this. Jiraiya>>>>>1/3rd Itachi=Early Naruto>Mountain busting, that is proof enough of his attack potency. Accept or disprove it, which I know you can't.

Again your arguing semantics. Hao made a comet, Hao used the comet as a blade, meaning that I could dub the attack as a comet blade.

1. But is does expand and can even affect people outside the ring take a look here:
http://i6.mangapanda.com/shaman-king/139/shaman-king-1810247.jpg

Also I can call BS on those scans since not only are there no real world comparisons made but I don't have anything to go off of but your word on the pixel scanning, no pictures or references from you, meaning that without a clear origin for the numbers I don't have to believe or take at face value a word you say.

2. If you could turn your hand into a reflective surface before the beam of life hit your hand you would be but you neglected to mention that part.

3. Hao used a star to create a Black Hole. You're arguing semantics because you can't prove that Hao didn't create a black hole: in which your wrong because Hao's attack originates from his former star. Prove that it didn't

4. Yoh didn't say anything about a real supernova in that scan, only Hao's. It stand to reason that he was talking about the supernova Hao made and the potential effect it would have on the Earth.

5. Translation error? According to what exactly? The words "forest" and "engulfed in flames" are right on the page. What reason do I have to disagree? Also even if it were less Hao can still cause things to spontaneously combust so show me something that would lead me to believe that any of the Sannin could resist it.

6. Didn't you once say wikis were stupid and now you want me to read one to prove your point? You couldn't prove your point so its invalid, move on already.

7. Can you give me a reference? You say Tsunade was drained but she didn't use that much chakra until the attack happened. Tsunade was just fine prior to Pein using Shinra Tensei. And yes tanking something while healthy and becoming relatively exhausted means that you didn't tank anything casually. If she did she would've been just the same as she was prior to the attack but she wasn't.

8. Its the exact same area only animated. Where are the mountains? What makes them mountains? Even if the series called them that based on size in comparison the frogs( of whom are smaller than mountains) they would not be comparable to the real thing.

But lets say that it was, then what? The fire ball didn't destroy anything nor is there a means to know how much power it released in contrast to say the "Tsar bomb". At best Jiraiya's fire ball ends up being comparable to Ulquiorra's lance in terms of credibility.

No you didn't. You showed me a scan of Itachi, who isn't a Sannin, and tried to compare that to Naruto being a clone of Itachi: that did not use Susanoo.

I'll spell out exactly what I want: I want a scan of Jiraiya using the Giant Rasengan to destroy something. Can you or can't you do that?

SSJGGogeta
Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
Again your arguing semantics. Hao made a comet, Hao used the comet as a blade, meaning that I could dub the attack as a comet blade.

1. But is does expand and can even affect people outside the ring take a look here:
http://i6.mangapanda.com/shaman-king/139/shaman-king-1810247.jpg

Also I can call BS on those scans since not only are there no real world comparisons made but I don't have anything to go off of but your word on the pixel scanning, no pictures or references from you, meaning that without a clear origin for the numbers I don't have to believe or take at face value a word you say.

2. If you could turn your hand into a reflective surface before the beam of life hit your hand you would be but you neglected to mention that part.

3. Hao used a star to create a Black Hole. You're arguing semantics because you can't prove that Hao didn't create a black hole: in which your wrong because Hao's attack originates from his former star. Prove that it didn't

4. Yoh didn't say anything about a real supernova in that scan, only Hao's. It stand to reason that he was talking about the supernova Hao made and the potential effect it would have on the Earth.

5. Translation error? According to what exactly? The words "forest" and "engulfed in flames" are right on the page. What reason do I have to disagree? Also even if it were less Hao can still cause things to spontaneously combust so show me something that would lead me to believe that any of the Sannin could resist it.

6. Didn't you once say wikis were stupid and now you want me to read one to prove your point? You couldn't prove your point so its invalid, move on already.

7. Can you give me a reference? You say Tsunade was drained but she didn't use that much chakra until the attack happened. Tsunade was just fine prior to Pein using Shinra Tensei. And yes tanking something while healthy and becoming relatively exhausted means that you didn't tank anything casually. If she did she would've been just the same as she was prior to the attack but she wasn't.

8. Its the exact same area only animated. Where are the mountains? What makes them mountains? Even if the series called them that based on size in comparison the frogs( of whom are smaller than mountains) they would not be comparable to the real thing.

But lets say that it was, then what? The fire ball didn't destroy anything nor is there a means to know how much power it released in contrast to say the "Tsar bomb". At best Jiraiya's fire ball ends up being comparable to Ulquiorra's lance in terms of credibility.

No you didn't. You showed me a scan of Itachi, who isn't a Sannin, and tried to compare that to Naruto being a clone of Itachi: that did not use Susanoo.

I'll spell out exactly what I want: I want a scan of Jiraiya using the Giant Rasengan to destroy something. Can you or can't you do that?

Ah, good to know that you accept your loss.

1. Again, it's 5 times more powerful than a grenade. I already proved that part 1 Naruto's rasengan is AT LEAST that powerful.

2. Oh, so if I put a mirror on my hand, and THEN turn it on, I'm light speed? Good to know. What YOU'RE neglecting, is the fact that Hao used his ability BEFORE the laser shot. He put his shield up before it fired, because you know, HE KNEW EXACTLY WHEN IT WOULD FIRE AND THAT HE COULDN'T DO SHIT ABOUT IT UNLESS HE PREPARED FOR IT. If not, then prove it. thumb up

3. I never said the "black hole" didn't come from the "star". The only proof I need is that his "star" was not even comparable to a sun, and his "black hole" did nothing but absorb peoples souls specifically. You're giving him feats that he doesn't have because of the name of his attack. For the last time, if you say that, then you also say that Tsunade can break heaven with a kick, meaning that she solo's. Not to mention that the attack name HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ITS POWER. So again, I win. This is my last reply.

4. Then show me where Yoh said that Hao's supernova could destroy Earth. You can't. He said a REAL LIFE supernova would destroy Earth, nothing about Hao OR his attack. For the last time, you are literally GIVING him feats because of his attacks name. You are wrong. I accept your concession.

5. Translation error is when something is incorrect because it was dubbed incorrectly. Since you haven't shown me a forest burning from Hao's attack, I hereby accept that you can't, and that I win. Spontaneous combustion? What will that do to the sannin that I have already shown to be able to tank fire, vaporization, and heat VASTLY above what Hao has shown capable of? Once again, I accept that you lose, and hereby concede.

6. And didn't you say that they were accurate, and use one even just a few posts ago? Again, I hereby accept your concession.

7. Are you retarded? Of course Tsunade used all her chakra. And here's my proof.

http://i22.mangapanda.com/naruto/430/naruto-8651.jpg

The scan CLEARLY states that Tsunade used all of her chakra to strengthen Katsuyu so she could keep the villagers alive. She even used her mitotic regeneration to keep them alive. Hints the month-long coma induced by it afterwords. When Kakashi almost became Hokage.

thumb up

http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Tsunade

And I gave you a wiki, because I know how you, for some reason, believe them more than actual scans. thumb up

She tanked almighty push WHILE tanking it for everyone in the village as well. Again, she could CASUALLY tank it in a 1 v 1. thumb up

You lose, I win.

8. Uh, no it's not, idiot. You're neglecting that there weren't even rocks by the fireball in the anime. However, there were mountains that were LARGER than Gamabunta, but SMALLER than the fireball, again, making the fireball small mountain sized, which is THOUSANDS OF TIME GREATER THAN ANYTHING HAO HAS EVER DEMONSTRATED. So, again, I win, you lose.

What did Hao's fireball destroy? Wood? Jiraiya's casual punch does that. Jiraiya's fireball had an AOE of small mountain size, meaning that converting its size with a explosion force, that puts Jiraiya's fireball at a few megatons, which is capable of small mountain busting or small town busting. You still haven't done anything other than say, "It can't be true, because I don't want it to be", and play the denial card, so again, I accept your concession.

When did I say Itachi was a sannin? When did I say Itachi was a clone of Naruto? Are you retarded? I powerscaled from what Naruto did to a 30% Itachi, and calced that Jiraiya could do vastly more, considering Itachi said him and Kisame at full power with backup would lose to Jiraiya. Again, you have yet to even make an argument, so I'm done wasting my time with you.

I've proven that the sannin have greater durability, greater strength, greater power, greater speed, greater resistance, AND can easily get around Hao's flight. Once again, you have yet to even argue against these facts, so I'm going to ignore your petty hard-headedness, and idiocy, and just know, like everyone else here does, that I. Have. Won.

The sannin shit on Hao. thumb up

wakkawakkawakka
Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Ah, good to know that you accept your loss.

1. Again, it's 5 times more powerful than a grenade. I already proved that part 1 Naruto's rasengan is AT LEAST that powerful.

2. Oh, so if I put a mirror on my hand, and THEN turn it on, I'm light speed? Good to know. What YOU'RE neglecting, is the fact that Hao used his ability BEFORE the laser shot. He put his shield up before it fired, because you know, HE KNEW EXACTLY WHEN IT WOULD FIRE AND THAT HE COULDN'T DO SHIT ABOUT IT UNLESS HE PREPARED FOR IT. If not, then prove it. thumb up

3. I never said the "black hole" didn't come from the "star". The only proof I need is that his "star" was not even comparable to a sun, and his "black hole" did nothing but absorb peoples souls specifically. You're giving him feats that he doesn't have because of the name of his attack. For the last time, if you say that, then you also say that Tsunade can break heaven with a kick, meaning that she solo's. Not to mention that the attack name HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ITS POWER. So again, I win. This is my last reply.

4. Then show me where Yoh said that Hao's supernova could destroy Earth. You can't. He said a REAL LIFE supernova would destroy Earth, nothing about Hao OR his attack. For the last time, you are literally GIVING him feats because of his attacks name. You are wrong. I accept your concession.

5. Translation error is when something is incorrect because it was dubbed incorrectly. Since you haven't shown me a forest burning from Hao's attack, I hereby accept that you can't, and that I win. Spontaneous combustion? What will that do to the sannin that I have already shown to be able to tank fire, vaporization, and heat VASTLY above what Hao has shown capable of? Once again, I accept that you lose, and hereby concede.

6. And didn't you say that they were accurate, and use one even just a few posts ago? Again, I hereby accept your concession.

7. Are you retarded? Of course Tsunade used all her chakra. And here's my proof.

http://i22.mangapanda.com/naruto/430/naruto-8651.jpg

The scan CLEARLY states that Tsunade used all of her chakra to strengthen Katsuyu so she could keep the villagers alive. She even used her mitotic regeneration to keep them alive. Hints the month-long coma induced by it afterwords. When Kakashi almost became Hokage.

thumb up

http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Tsunade

And I gave you a wiki, because I know how you, for some reason, believe them more than actual scans. thumb up

She tanked almighty push WHILE tanking it for everyone in the village as well. Again, she could CASUALLY tank it in a 1 v 1. thumb up

You lose, I win.

8. Uh, no it's not, idiot. You're neglecting that there weren't even rocks by the fireball in the anime. However, there were mountains that were LARGER than Gamabunta, but SMALLER than the fireball, again, making the fireball small mountain sized, which is THOUSANDS OF TIME GREATER THAN ANYTHING HAO HAS EVER DEMONSTRATED. So, again, I win, you lose.

What did Hao's fireball destroy? Wood? Jiraiya's casual punch does that. Jiraiya's fireball had an AOE of small mountain size, meaning that converting its size with a explosion force, that puts Jiraiya's fireball at a few megatons, which is capable of small mountain busting or small town busting. You still haven't done anything other than say, "It can't be true, because I don't want it to be", and play the denial card, so again, I accept your concession.

When did I say Itachi was a sannin? When did I say Itachi was a clone of Naruto? Are you retarded? I powerscaled from what Naruto did to a 30% Itachi, and calced that Jiraiya could do vastly more, considering Itachi said him and Kisame at full power with backup would lose to Jiraiya. Again, you have yet to even make an argument, so I'm done wasting my time with you.

I've proven that the sannin have greater durability, greater strength, greater power, greater speed, greater resistance, AND can easily get around Hao's flight. Once again, you have yet to even argue against these facts, so I'm going to ignore your petty hard-headedness, and idiocy, and just know, like everyone else here does, that I. Have. Won.

The sannin shit on Hao. thumb up

Loss on what exactly. Hao used a comet as a sword. What's there to argue about.

You flipped between Chocolove and Horohoro to Yoh creating the comet at least twice even though both are incorrect as shown on the scan.

1. Why should I believe you? You don't have any numbers or frame of reference or anything else to scale the attack off of. All I have is you saying you did some pixel scanning and there's no evidence of you actually doing anything on here. Can you provide me a scan, some numbers, and a reason why you were able to get those numbers?

2. Misinterpreting what I said again. I already agree that Hao already had SoF up. What I said was that Hao had transmute it after the laser was fire but before it his in order to block the attack: the reaction and transmutation make up Hao's lightspeed reaction feat. Also for that mirror example you tried to use, that would only work if you move the mirror in front of your palm after the laser was activated but before the laser hit your hand. Try again.

3. You doubted Hao's Black Hole was the real deal: and perhaps it wasn't created from a giant sun. Nonetheless it has all the properties of a Black Hole and was created the same was as a real one so it stands to reason that it would have the same functionality as well: especially since it was mentioned in the scan I posted. Regardless of its origin, a Black Hole is Black Hole which Hao was able to make: What have the Sannin done that states that they could tank a Black Hole?

4. Where did he say those words? Point those exact words out from Yoh: quote something or highlight an image because Yoh never said anything about an actual supernova in that scan: He was only referring to Hao's which they had just got finished surviving. Here I'll post the scan so there's no more confusion.:.http://m.mhcdn.net/store/manga/65/33-299.0/compressed/himg020.jpg?v=11365747844


5.Funny how the characters flat out call it a forest and now your saying its a translation error. You still haven't told me why the scan was wrong. Does another site have different words, do the live manga panels have something different. Plus there was an overview of a forest being buring covering a larger area than the one Jiraiya used witht he fireball on top of being done much faster: Hao activated his armor and the forest almost immediately burst into flames. Also why are you using a fire based jutsu to argue against Hao even though it has no means of harming him at all?

6. I said they were useful for general knowledge don't put words in my posts that I didn't type there. This also mean that you still want me to prove your point for you which I'm not going to do.

7. I never once said Tsunade wasn't exhausted after Shinra Tensei: find where I said that. I argued that she was just fine before the attack hit and wasn't afterwards. That scans shows something I already agree with so what was the point of it. Also the fact that Tsunade wasn't exhausted before the scan but is exhausted(drained) now means that she didn't casually tank anything. Fact is Tsunade wasn't in the same condition as she was prior to the attack in question. Not only that but as that scan shows, she was drained of chakra and exhausted: what's casual about that?

You arguing hypothetical about that event which didn't happen. "Could Tsunade tank it better if she wasn't protecting the village?" Probably, but because it didn't happen we will never know

8. The rock formations in the manga scan were not bigger than Gamabunta. even if they were that doesn't make them mountains since there isn't a mountain anywhere in this valley:
http://i13.mangapanda.com/naruto/170/naruto-3339.jpg
You're telling me a mountain just popped up somewhere in this valley. We already know the summons aren't bigger than mountains so using those rocks shown again wouldn't be wise.
Again you're scaling off the size of the attack rather than what the attack actually did. Hao did beat down an entire Naval Force, Hao did tank a grenade point black, Hao did one-shot an island busters, Hao did react to and block a lightspeed attack. See these are things that I can show you the end result of rather than a fireball that didn't destroy anything.

Also the who point of the forest feat was to show Hao can set anything on fire that he wants on a whim so long as there is oxygen present in the immediate area.

You're the one who mentioned Itachi here in the first place I should be asking you that. Also what was the point of mentioning Itachi to begin with? Naruto's Rasengan feat is not Jiraiya's so you can't just give him that feat because he's lacking one. As I've stated multiple times that statement isn't necessarily true considering what both Kisame and Itachi have been shown to do over the course of Part 2 in comparison to Jiraiya.

You haven't proven anything. All you're done is say my feats are bad because you don't like them or are misinterpreting the print because it doesn't agree with your argument. And I'm still waiting for that Jiraiya scan

animethinker
Interesting debate though i think both sides are over powering the ones they like more.

Take Hoa after he absorbs the G.S. he is basically god at that point where he instantly kills all the main characters. The decapitating head not stopping him is because he was not in the body he was just controlling it like a puppet for fun. Yoh even states as much. After getting G.S. he is omnipotent able to instantly kill all the characters. He was only able to be fought inside himself in the great spirit so is that what goes on the 3 sannin get killed by him then fight him in great spirit like the main characters in shaman king did. It did not work out well for the main characters until they literally had everyone hao killed come and hao's mother come to convince him to return them to life.

Now for Hao with Spirit of Fire before becoming god basically. First is chakra and furyoku equal as i understand it in order to have a fair fight it has to be the chakra and furyoku basically become the same thing. Meaning the 3 sannin would actually be able to see the oversoul summoned by hoa and genjutsu can possibly affect hoa. Are we in agreement on that.

Then we have The spirit of fire oversoul form which if that is made of chakra is basically a bijuu or susanoo made of fire. That is incredibly fast and can be formed anywhere there is oxygen. While when he makes the armor oversoul its like he basically makes something between the chakra cloak naruto makes with his chakra and the susanoo ribcage and arms sasuke makes. So to me Hoa's Spirit of Fire ability s vs the 3 sannins basically is asking how well the 3 sannins will do against a guy who has a fire nature Susanoo. That is just the abilities he has from the fire spirit.

Then we have Hao's reading the heart ability which he can't turn off and is always basically able to hear peoples thoughts. Considering the sannin where never shown to be immune to mind reading i would say he is able to read there minds. Though i read up in the discussion it was argued that sannins have mental blocks. There is a difference between having someone invade your mind as the yamanaka do and passively hearing the thoughts of everyone in the room.

So what are your thoughts.

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