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Can't Dooku defeat Sidious master in a duel of pure sabers?

Sabers only.

Tyranus takes a sabers only match up. Throw in force mastery and Plagueis takes this.

Based on inference, I'd say that Plagueis's primary form is Niman, while he does maintain expertise in Soresu. Niman doesn't really have and weaknesses for Tyranus to exploit with Makashi. Plagueis is more skilled with a blade than most give him credit for.

Tyranus is arguably the more technically skilled of the two, however Plagueis isn't completely outmatched in this guard, and boasts numerous physical advantages (ie speed, strength, endurance, ability to take injury, pain threshold etc.). I say Darth Plagueis takes this one.

Plagueis is the clear superior, is he not?

Plagueis' saber skills are largely unknown. IIRC, his only saber feats were beating Venamis and teaching Sidious.

I would imagine that Plagueis could win but as it stands now, there is more evidence of Dooku being a more accomplished duelist.

Plagueis also fought off hundreds of Kursid warriors with a wooden staff alongside Sidious.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Plagueis also fought off hundreds of Kursid warriors with a wooden staff alongside Sidious.

And the droids as well. I forgot about these two feats.

I retroactively categorize these as under the "training Sidious" feat.

Still I feel there's more of a disparity between their respective physical capabilities than there is between their technical skill.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Based on inference, I'd say that Plagueis's primary form is Niman, while he does maintain expertise in Soresu. Niman doesn't really have and weaknesses for Tyranus to exploit with Makashi. Plagueis is more skilled with a blade than most give him credit for.

Tyranus is arguably the more technically skilled of the two, however Plagueis isn't completely outmatched in this guard, and boasts numerous physical advantages (ie speed, strength, endurance, ability to take injury, pain threshold etc.). I say Darth Plagueis takes this one.

I don't think Niman is Plagueis' form. Considering that both Sidious and Maul favored Juyo I'd imagine that was his form of choice. I also think that like his apprentice he maintained expertise in all 7 forms.

He did. His master said that he was an absolute master of lightsaber combat. Its just that he's not that interested in it.

Originally posted by Nephthys
He did. His master said that he was an absolute master of lightsaber combat. Its just that he's not that interested in it.

Indeed which is an interesting contrast to the Counts love of it.

Yeah. But Plagueis doesn't suffer for it. That guy he fought loved lightsaber combat and was even better at it than Plagueis was but Plagueis still managed to beat him by going into a kind of zen trance. TBH, Plagueis is stronger than Dooku is and likely faster. He's arguably as skilled and if not he can still make up for that easily. He'd beat Dooku imo.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Yeah. But Plagueis doesn't suffer for it. That guy he fought loved lightsaber combat and was even better at it than Plagueis was but Plagueis still managed to beat him by going into a kind of zen trance. TBH, Plagueis is stronger than Dooku is and likely faster. He's arguably as skilled and if not he can still make up for that easily. He'd beat Dooku imo.

Faster than the same Dooku who casually dodged a TK from Kenobi and Skywalker...eh you'd be hard pressed to prove that. Nor does he really have a better strength feat of blocking both Kenobi and Skywalker's blades with one hand.

I dunno about as skilled. Dooku's knowledge of the 7 forms is really extensive.

Cipher 9 has dodged TK. Its not that fast. Plagueis could move so fast he was a mere blur to a droid with enhanced visions photo-recepters. He's also punched through armored torsos, while grievously wounded. That's better than blocking Anakin and Kenobi in my books.

His knowledge is broad, but he only uses Makashi extensively. Plagueis is a master of all forms.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Cipher 9 has dodged TK. Its not that fast. Plagueis could move so fast he was a mere blur to a droid with enhanced visions photo-recepters. He's also punched through armored torsos, while grievously wounded. That's better than blocking Anakin and Kenobi in my books.

Uh context? And yeah it is. Only other person who did it was Grievous up to this point and he's fast enough that normal beings eyes cannot track his motion. I don't think so, Skywalker could very easily punch through armored torsos with his metal arm.



As is Dooku.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Uh context? And yeah it is. Only other person who did it was Grievous up to this point and he's fast enough that normal beings eyes cannot track his motion. I don't think so, Skywalker could very easily punch through armored torsos with his metal arm.

u4ptalNssvw

10.30. From point blank range no less. Then dodges a lightsaber blow from on the ground. Also, 'as fast as Grievous' isn't mindblowing or anything.

Easily? Nah. I'm not convinced he could in the first place.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
As is Dooku.

Is he? Completely mastered all of them? I know he trained Grievous but other than that Dooku tends to solely employ Makashi.

And either way, I said 'just as skilled'. If they're both masters of all forms then that would be accurate.

Anakin did tear apart a crab droid in Sithisis.

Originally posted by Nephthys
u4ptalNssvw

10.30. From point blank range no less. Then dodges a lightsaber blow from on the ground. Also, 'as fast as Grievous' isn't mindblowing or anything.

Not the same. That TK was clearly aimed at the dude next to him.



As Ares said Anakin did tear apart a crab droid in Sithisis.



If he can train someone who isn't even a force user to be able to kill masters of the 7 forms, why would he himself not be a master?



True.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Not the same. That TK was clearly aimed at the dude next to him.

The dude was behind her. He got hit because she jumped out of the way.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
As Ares said Anakin did tear apart a crab droid in Sithisis.

Sidious was using a ritual at the time to increase his anger. Skywalkers eyes were shown as yellow.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
If he can train someone who isn't even a force user to be able to kill masters of the 7 forms, why would he himself not be a master?

Didn't he also program them into Grievous' brain?

Originally posted by Lord Stark
True.

Cool.

Originally posted by Nephthys
The dude was behind her. He got hit because she jumped out of the way.

I don't really think so. Her legs were still parallel with the dude who got hit. So either it was a small and rather pathetic TK targeted at one person.



I mean Kenobi can also bend durasteel with his bare hands. Skywalker is way stronger than him.




No I don't think so. Also that would still imply a great deal of knowledge.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
I don't really think so. Her legs were still parallel with the dude who got hit. So either it was a small and rather pathetic TK targeted at one person.

Dude, he's blatantly standing right behind her. Its just the limitations of the cutscenes being in-game engine stuff that shes still partially in front of him when he gets hit.

She jumped out of the way of it in either case.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
I mean Kenobi can also bend durasteel with his bare hands. Skywalker is way stronger than him.

When did Kenobi bend durasteel?

Originally posted by Lord Stark
No I don't think so. Also that would still imply a great deal of knowledge.

It implies access to a great deal of knowledge, not that he's mastered the knowledge of the forms. I'm pretty sure he could have gotten the info from Sidious if he needed it. I'm sure the RoT Sith have access to that stuff.