Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

Toothless was able to drop the Red Death in How to Train your Dragon. He has both tailwings in this scenario. He's also being piloted by Hiccup who likewise, has both legs.

Both start a hundred feet from each other, upon Dragon Island. Outside interference is not allowed. KO and/or kill counts as victory.

Who wins?

Toothless

Smaug isn't a big dumb animal like the Red Death. Or Toothless for that matter.

Heat also seems to do little more than piss Smaug off, even of the molten gold variety.

Smaug wins.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Smaug isn't a big dumb animal like the Red Death. Or Toothless for that matter.
Smaug was stupid enough to get riled up and outwitted by a bunch of dwarves and a hobbit, LOL. Toothless on the other hand is actually renowned for his uncanny cunning, and sheer intelligence not to mention is far faster, more agile with much better maneuverability than Smaug. Toothless is smart enough to scurry along Smaug's body to eventually find his weak spot. Game over once that happens(and it'll happen, sooner rather than later).
Originally posted by NemeBro
Heat also seems to do little more than piss Smaug off, even of the molten gold variety.
Good thing then that Toothless actually spits out plasma blasts with powerful concussive force as opposed to just ordinary fire.

Originally posted by Epicurus
Smaug was stupid enough to get riled up and outwitted by a bunch of dwarves and a hobbit, LOL. Toothless on the other hand is actually renowned for his uncanny cunning, and sheer intelligence not to mention is far faster, more agile with much better maneuverability than Smaug. Toothless is smart enough to scurry along Smaug's body to eventually find his weak spot. Game over once that happens(and it'll happen, sooner rather than later).

Good thing then that Toothless actually spits out plasma blasts with powerful concussive force as opposed to just ordinary fire.

Scurry along Smaug's body?

Toothless is smaller than Smaug, but not so small and nimble as a Hobbit. Smaug would crush it under his weight if it clung to him.

What have these blasts actually destroyed though? Nothing on the level of Smaug in durability, surely.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Scurry along Smaug's body?

Toothless is smaller than Smaug, but not so small and nimble as a Hobbit. Smaug would crush it under his weight if it clung to him.

What have these blasts actually destroyed though? Nothing on the level of Smaug in durability, surely.
Toothless is too fast to be crushed by that slow, fat worm.

They knocked down the Red Death. They have destroyed wood, viking steel, stone etc. The Red Death didn't have a weak spot and still Toothless defeated it.

Toothless would murder Smaug in this scenario. Toothless wins 8-9/10.

If it flew away, maybe, but if it actually grapples with Smaug like you suggested? Lol, no way. Keep in mind that Smaug was also fighting Bilbo and the Dwarves in a much more confined area, with no room to fly.

The Red Death's weak spot was its throat, why are you lying? Also none of those are as durable as Smaug except the Red Death, who once more was hit in a much larger weak spot. Toothless' breath is unsuited for puncturing the crack in Smaug's hide.

Viking steel was fairly shitty by the way.

Originally posted by NemeBro
If it flew away, maybe, but if it actually grapples with Smaug like you suggested? Lol, no way. Keep in mind that Smaug was also fighting Bilbo and the Dwarves in a much more confined area, with no room to fly.

The Red Death's weak spot was its throat, why are you lying? Also none of those are as durable as Smaug except the Red Death, who once more was hit in a much larger weak spot. Toothless' breath is unsuited for puncturing the crack in Smaug's hide.

Viking steel was fairly shitty by the way.
They are on dragon island, not upon Smaug's treasure hoard. There is enough room for Toothless to maneuver around Smaug in this scenario. Not to mention he's being ridden by Hiccup as well.

I am talking about it's external body, you dunce. The RD literally had no weak spot on the exterior of its gigantic body. Still, Toothless and co figured out how to beat it. It's clearly not much of a stretch to assume that he could beat Smaug as well once the unscaled patch of skin is discovered.

Based on literally nothing whatsoever.

Originally posted by Epicurus
They are on dragon island, not upon Smaug's treasure hoard. There is enough room for Toothless to maneuver around Smaug in this scenario. Not to mention he's being ridden by Hiccup as well.

Which island is Dragon Island again? The one where Red Death resides?



Beat him how?

Toothless has no piercing attacks on par with a ballista that fires magical arrows. His teeth are too weak, and his breath attack, though powerful, is not the right tool to do this job.

Meanwhile, Smaug needs to hit Toothless once, with any attack, to win.



No, it's historical fact. Like the Japanese, the Vikings had to fold their swords many many many times in order to burn off the impurities of the steel in the blade, making it more consistently durable. Hell, the Ulfberht Viking Swords, of which less than 200 have been found, were remarkable simply because of how high quality they were back in the day. They were also rare as ****. Steelsmithing in the Viking Age was overall quite a bit less high quality than it was in the later middle ages, mostly due to the poor quality raw steel the Vikings had access to.

Also, the "steel" you're talking about was most likely wrought iron, but I don't know which scene you're talking about.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Which island is Dragon Island again? The one where Red Death resides?
The one where all the dragons come from, so yes.
Originally posted by NemeBro

Beat him how?
By figuring out its weakness which Fishlegs previously was unable to figure out. Toothless is fast and cunning enough to figure out Smaug's weak spot on his own, nevermind Hiccup who could do it even more easily.
Originally posted by NemeBro

Toothless has no piercing attacks on par with a ballista that fires magical arrows.
Lol, prove that the black arrows are magical. The only reason they were said to be capable of penetrating Smaug's hide was because they were dwarven-forged, meaning better than ordinary arrows.
Originally posted by NemeBro

His teeth are too weak, and his breath attack, though powerful, is not the right tool to do this job.
You mean to tell me that a powerful plasma blast(the sort which put the RD on its back once Toothless was released) can't penetrate an exposed patch of soft skin? GTFO here.
Originally posted by NemeBro

Meanwhile, Smaug needs to hit Toothless once, with any attack, to win.
Smaug couldn't even get a proper shot on a bunch of dwarves, and a hobbit managed to evade him multiple times. Not to mention that not all of these instances relied on his magic invisibility ring.

Prove that Smaug has the reflexes and reaction time to get a successful shot on a creature as fast, agile and stealthy as Toothless. You've been making baseless claims without adding much weight behind them, lol.
Originally posted by NemeBro

No, it's historical fact. Like the Japanese, the Vikings had to fold their swords many many many times in order to burn off the impurities of the steel in the blade, making it more consistently durable. Hell, the Ulfberht Viking Swords, of which less than 200 have been found, were remarkable simply because of how high quality they were back in the day. They were also rare as ****. Steelsmithing in the Viking Age was overall quite a bit less high quality than it was in the later middle ages, mostly due to the poor quality raw steel the Vikings had access to.
The movie vikings are different. Hsitorically, Vikings aren't even supposed to be the horned barbarians they are portrayed as in fiction. Not to mention that viking weapons in the movie are forged with the primary purpose of fending off wild dragons that attack their town on a regular basis.

Originally posted by Epicurus

Lol, prove that the black arrows are magical. The only reason they were said to be capable of penetrating Smaug's hide was because they were dwarven-forged, meaning better than ordinary arrows.

Sorry, mistook it for the book version.

Point still stands though. What piercing attacks of Toothless can compare?



Considering how large Toothless' fireballs are, no, they can't actually. Toothless' breath is a sledgehammer, but what it needs is a scalpel.



And all of them relied on Smaug being so massive in a confined space that he couldn't pursue them in the manner he was built for, as known as flight.



Toothless was not so fast that the similarly large and cumbersome RD could not hit it (Or come close, IIRC). Smaug flies at least as fast.



Right, and only Astrid of the Vikings has an actual Norse name.

Why bring up that it was Viking steel though? I mean, no one here can prove beyond a reasonable doubt how pure or impure their steel is.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Sorry, mistook it for the book version.

Point still stands though. What piercing attacks of Toothless can compare?
The ones which blow shit up.


Originally posted by NemeBro

Considering how large Toothless' fireballs are, no, they can't actually. Toothless' breath is a sledgehammer, but what it needs is a scalpel.

How large are they? The answer to this question is; large enough to fit the exposed patch of soft skin on Smaug's hide.

Originally posted by NemeBro

And all of them relied on Smaug being so massive in a confined space that he couldn't pursue them in the manner he was built for, as known as flight.

Smaug used his wings for gliding/flying in his treasure room, let alone the hallways where the dwarves continually evaded him and his fire.

Originally posted by NemeBro

Toothless was not so fast that the similarly large and cumbersome RD could not hit it (Or come close, IIRC). Smaug flies at least as fast.

Lol, are you f*cking kidding me? Toothless was more or less like a bigger, panther shaped version of a peregrine falcon. Toothless did jet dives from thousands of feet up in the air. He shot straight like an arrow on more than one occasion that I can count of.

Heck, a Night Fury's speed/agility along with stealth is one of the main attributes listed as its specialties in the book of dragons.
Originally posted by NemeBro

Right, and only Astrid of the Vikings has an actual Norse name.

What's that supposed to mean?

And while we're discussing names of norse origins, the name "Hiccup" doesn't sound like something that an ancient viking warlord would call his son.
Originally posted by NemeBro

Why bring up that it was Viking steel though? I mean, no one here can prove beyond a reasonable doubt how pure or impure their steel is.
Because they were vikings, that's why. Same reason both Toothless and Smaug are "dragons" despite one being of magical origins while the other being a purely biological creature.

Originally posted by Epicurus
The ones which blow shit up.

The ones that don't pierce?



No, the exposed patch of skin is too small to be hit with precision by Toothless' breath.



Yes, by going through hallways that Smaug is too large to fit through. I've said that.



I was comparing Smaug to RD, not Toothless.




Exactly what I said: Astrid has the only genuine Norse name.



Right, like that thing I said.



But viking steel is relatively poor.

Originally posted by NemeBro


But viking steel is relatively poor.


Not really. Ever heard of crucible steel? They were just a couple of notches short of modern quality steel. Far superior to the Japanese steel of the Samurai era centuries later.

Originally posted by NemeBro
The ones that don't pierce?

The ones which gave you premature brain damage and will put Smaug down for the count in this thread.
Originally posted by NemeBro

No, the exposed patch of skin is too small to be hit with precision by Toothless' breath.

Based on nothing whatsoever. The exposed patch of skin seemed big enough that someone like Bilbo could fit into it. Toothlesss' plasma blast can definitely go through it like hot knife through butter.

Originally posted by NemeBro

Yes, by going through hallways that Smaug is too large to fit through. I've said that.

Did you watch the more? Honest to god question. Because even while Smaug was stalking around in the hallways, one could see how gargantuan the halls were even compared to the dragon. I guess that's a testament to dwarven architectural skills.

Originally posted by NemeBro

I was comparing Smaug to RD, not Toothless.

Then you should know that the RD never actually managed to get a successful hit against Toothless. Toothless also knocked down the RD before the latter first used its wings to fly.

Originally posted by NemeBro

Exactly what I said: Astrid has the only genuine Norse name.

What does that have to do with anything in this thread?

Originally posted by NemeBro

Right, like that thing I said.

Again; irrelevant.

Originally posted by NemeBro

But viking steel is relatively poor.
Based on perhaps those cherry-picked links of yours. Not on this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulfberht