Where would Lord Dracula tier?

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TheLordofMurder
Based on Dracula's powers/abilities and his average showings, where should he tier?

Stoic
Low to Mid Herald. Although he could beat a High Herald depending on if that character could hit him or not. For instance, Terrax may have a very hard time with Dracula, because he may trend towards only being able to hit non magical characters, while Teth, or Captain Marvel would knock his block off, because they do more damage to magical creatures, than non magical characters like Terrax can or would.

TheLordofMurder
Originally posted by Stoic
Low to Mid Herald. Although he could beat a High Herald depending on if that character could hit him or not. For instance, Terrax may have a very hard time with Dracula, because he may trend towards only being able to hit non magical characters, while Teth, or Captain Marvel would knock his block off, because they do more damage to magical creatures, than non magical characters like Terrax can or would.

Sounds very reasonable...

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zopzop
IMHO, High Meta (it's just that his special abilities grant him wins against characters outside his Tier).

Stoic
Originally posted by zopzop
IMHO, High Meta (it's just that his special abilities grant him wins against characters outside his Tier).

Have you taken a look at Dr. Strange? He durability is human, and yet he is a High Herald. Dracula IMO is low to mid Herald.

zopzop
Originally posted by Stoic
Have you taken a look at Dr. Strange? He durability is human, and yet he is a High Herald. Dracula IMO is low to mid Herald.
I dispute Strange being High Herald. Like Dracula, his abilities grant him wins outside his Tier.

Magnon
Mid Herald. He can take on an entire team of X-men at the same time, or pretty much stalemate Thor.

carver9
When did he stalemate Thor? Does anyone have scans of this?.

TheLordofMurder
Interesting discussion thus far guys...

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ShadowFyre
I'm with Zop I think. So if Punisher carried around a magic gun and beat killed Juggernaut and some other heralds with it, does that make him a trans level? Magic is a tool, as well as technology. Ghost Rider is a magical being as opposed to casting spells. Same as Thor. Batman could be a high herald based off the crap he pulls.

ShadowFyre
And yes, I wrote beat killed.

ares834
Originally posted by Stoic
Have you taken a look at Dr. Strange? He durability is human, and yet he is a High Herald. Dracula IMO is low to mid Herald.

Yeah, Zop's logic makes no sense to me. All characters are tiered based upon their abilities.

Stoic
The problem is that Batman, and Frank would be using items, and not their own physical gifts. Iron Man is as great as his suit, and although it seems like the same thing, there are some differences. Iron Man's suit is a weapon, and it boosts his physical stats to the point that he can walk amongst Heralds. Dracula is a low to mid Herald considering all that he brings to the table.

Mimic would be a high Meta. Dracula would kill him, or the Thing. Blaastar wouldn't be able to stand up to him, neither would the Absorbing Man, Colossus, and many others in that tier.

Sin I AM
Originally posted by Stoic
The problem is that Batman, and Frank would be using items, and not their own physical gifts. Iron Man is as great as his suit, and although it seems like the same thing, there are some differences. Iron Man's suit is a weapon, and it boosts his physical stats to the point that he can walk amongst Heralds. Dracula is a low to mid Herald considering all that he brings to the table.

Mimic would be a high Meta. Dracula would kill him, or the Thing. Blaastar wouldn't be able to stand up to him, neither would the Absorbing Man, Colossus, and many others in that tier.

Yout suggesting draco would best colossus? Or creel or ben? Thats laughable

JuggernautMania
Originally posted by ShadowFyre
I'm with Zop I think. So if Punisher carried around a magic gun and beat killed Juggernaut and some other heralds with it, does that make him a trans level? Magic is a tool, as well as technology. Ghost Rider is a magical being as opposed to casting spells. Same as Thor. Batman could be a high herald based off the crap he pulls.

so by your logic iron man cant be a real herald because thats all suits and guns he has? he is a street leveler? think before you write my friend.

abhilegend
Dracula has already beaten Colossus............

JuggernautMania
High Herald. Odin said that if dracula had more will to do damage he would break thor and pose a threat to asgard.

zopzop
Originally posted by ShadowFyre
And yes, I wrote beat killed.
laughing laughing laughing
Originally posted by ares834
Yeah, Zop's logic makes no sense to me. All characters are tiered based upon their abilities.
It makes no sense? Does Dracula have the raw power to destroy a city? Wreck a continent? Bust a planet? Can he travel interdimensionally? Travel between planets/stars/galaxies? Can he survive solar core temperatures? The crush of a black hole? Can he manipulate matter on a planetary scale? Planetary level TP? Etc...

No right? Those are herald levels of power. Dracula is NOT a herald despite what you want to believe. He's a respectable High Meta who gets wins outside of his Tier vs certain opponents because of the way his powers work.

TheLordofMurder
Originally posted by Sin I AM
Yout suggesting draco would best colossus? Or creel or ben? Thats laughable

Laughable?

LoL...dont know much about Drac do you?

His gaze would own Colossus or Creel outright...

Ben might actually be strong enough to resist Dracs gaze (and thats debatable), but when Drac opens up his bag of tricks, he's just too versatile for Thing...

zopzop
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Laughable?

LoL...dont know much about Drac do you?

His gaze would own Colossus or Creel outright...

Ben might actually be strong enough to resist (And thats debatable), but when Drac opens up his bag of tricks, he's just too versatile for Thing...
Originally posted by abhilegend
Dracula has already beaten Colossus............
And Cyclops and Wolverine and Nightcrawler (I think).

EDIT :
LoM click the link and scroll down. About mid way through is Dracula owning the X-Men :
http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/dracula-vs-magneto-613765/

TheLordofMurder
Originally posted by zopzop
And Cyclops and Wolverine and Nightcrawler (I think).

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@zopzop

Btw, you and Stoic are making some great points; Drac has never demostrated the power you mentioned that is inherent to Heralds (counterpoint though; Doom is a Low Herald and lacks many of the feats you mentioned)...

But he does have some excellent combat feats...

I am torn between him being Low Herald to High Meta to be honest...

If he is High Meta, he might be at the top (or atleast near the top) of that tier...

Some here say that maybe he's a Mid Herald, but (IMHO) he lacks the raw power that the characters on that level possess...

abhilegend
Dracula was amped due to drinking Sif's blood against Thor anyway.

erm

TheLordofMurder
@zopzop

That link isnt opening for me for some reason...

zopzop
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
@zopzop

That link isnt opening for me for some reason...
http://s22.postimg.org/q7p519u0d/1820086_494796_uncanny_x_men_159_15_super.jpghttp://s3.postimg.org/d1x4v2zcf/1820090_494799_uncanny_x_men_159_16_super.jpg

TheLordofMurder
Thanks!

smile

zopzop
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Thanks!

smile
YW. Comicvine acts funny when you try to link to their messages.

TheLordofMurder
Originally posted by zopzop
http://s22.postimg.org/q7p519u0d/1820086_494796_uncanny_x_men_159_15_super.jpghttp://s3.postimg.org/d1x4v2zcf/1820090_494799_uncanny_x_men_159_16_super.jpg

@Sin I AM

I thought you said Drac beating Colossus was laughable? He seems to be doing just fine against multiple Xmen...

wink


Edit: You're the one who voted him for Low Meta...arent you?

wink

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by Stoic
He durability is human

But he has plenty of shields, including automatic ones.

Sin I AM
Firstt off he didn't beat him he temp bfred him. And second that's classic drac not current. Plus that's a young piotr.

carver9
Young Piotro was powerful and we didn't see him after Draculas attack for a bit. It's possible he was koed.

TheLordofMurder
Hmmm...

So far Drac being High Meta has the lions share of votes...

The more I think about it, the more I think zopzop is right; Dracs overall power level is in line with what you'd expect from a High Meta, but given his versatility, he is a bad matchup for a significant portion of the Low Heralds, and is fully capable of giving certain Mid and High Heralds problems with the right matchup...


However, this has got me thinking that Dr Doom should be a High Meta as well...

Doom, just like Drac, is very versatile and can give some Heralds problems, but the fact remains that Doom lacks the extreme displays of raw power that you typically see from true Herald level characters...

Edit: You can add Iron Man to that list of characters that has some good combat feats, can give some Heralds problems, but lacks the raw displays of power that you expect to see from true Heralds...

zopzop
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Hmmm...

So far Drac being High Meta has the lions share of votes...

The more I think about it, the more I think zopzop is right; Dracs overall power level is in line with what you'd expect from a High Meta, but given his versatility, he is a bad matchup for a significant portion of the Low Heralds, and is fully capable of giving certain Mid and High Heralds problems with the right matchup...


However, this has got me thinking that Dr Doom should be a High Meta as well...

Doom, just like Drac, is very versatile and can give some Heralds problems, but the fact remains that Doom lacks the extreme displays of raw power that you typically see from true Herald level characters...

Edit: You can add Iron Man to that list of characters that has some good combat feats, can give some Heralds problems, but lacks the raw displays of power that you expect to see from true Heralds...
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People severely underestimate what it means to be "Herald" level, even low herald. I gave examples of what beings in that Tier do and Doom/Dracula/Iron Man do not make the list.

People also forget, writers job herald level characters MIGHTILY otherwise they would have no story.

Forget planet busting or whatever, imagine the raw power it takes to lift Manhattan Island clean into orbit. Imagine the raw power it takes to travel between planets/solar systems/galaxies (even light speed won't cut it). Imagine what it takes to survive in space indefinitely, survive inside stellar cores, and withstand black holes.

TheLordofMurder
Originally posted by zopzop
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People severely underestimate what it means to be "Herald" level, even low herald. I gave examples of what beings in that Tier do and Doom/Dracula/Iron Man do not make the list.

People also forget, writers job herald level characters MIGHTILY otherwise they would have no story.

Forget planet busting or whatever, imagine the raw power it takes to lift Manhattan Island clean into orbit. Imagine the raw power it takes to travel between planets/solar systems/galaxies (even light speed won't cut it). Imagine what it takes to survive in space indefinitely, survive inside stellar cores, and withstand black holes.

100% agree! smile

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carver9
Originally posted by zopzop
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People severely underestimate what it means to be "Herald" level, even low herald. I gave examples of what beings in that Tier do and Doom/Dracula/Iron Man do not make the list.

People also forget, writers job herald level characters MIGHTILY otherwise they would have no story.

Forget planet busting or whatever, imagine the raw power it takes to lift Manhattan Island clean into orbit. Imagine the raw power it takes to travel between planets/solar systems/galaxies (even light speed won't cut it). Imagine what it takes to survive in space indefinitely, survive inside stellar cores, and withstand black holes.


So where would you rate someone like Martian Manhunter who has never done any of those things? What about Superboy? Where would you rank him? In order to be a Herald, you have to do all of that stuff huh? I guess that throws out 99% of DCNU characters. Hell, people like Zeus and High Father would be low metas using this type of argument. That would put Herc in a different tier than most Skyfathers and trans characters. Thanos for example is in the tier hes in mainly because of his fights. Durability doesn't equate to placement or Classic Jugs, Superman, Thor, and Hulk would be abstracts.

zopzop
Originally posted by carver9
So where would you rate someone like Martian Manhunter who has never done any of those things? What about Superboy? Where would you rank him?
I'm pretty sure MM has met at least some of those requirements to be considered a herald level being.



I see your objection. There are certain characters, like say Hulk, that have high herald level durability/stamina/strength but lack a true herald's versatility. Can Hulk beat Jack of Hearts (a low herald)? Hell yes. Can Hulk beat Gladiator? Hell yes.

Now look at this : If there was an emergency on Mars and the Avengers were stranded there in desperate need of back up, how would the Hulk, who is on Earth, get there for the assist? He couldn't right? But Jack or Glads could.

Hulk is High Herald when it comes to physical stats (strength/stamina/durability) ONLY.

carver9
Originally posted by zopzop

I'm pretty sure MM has met at least some of those requirements to be considered a herald level being.



I see your objection. There are certain characters, like say Hulk, that have high herald level durability/stamina/strength but lack a true herald's versatility. Can Hulk beat Jack of Hearts (a low herald)? Hell yes. Can Hulk beat Gladiator? Hell yes.

Now look at this : If there was an emergency on Mars and the Avengers were stranded there in desperate need of back up, how would the Hulk, who is on Earth, get there for the assist? He couldn't right? But Jack or Glads could.

Hulk is High Herald when it comes to physical stats (strength/stamina/durability) ONLY.

So God Like Cable isn't a Herald? I'm asking.because he wouldnt be able to get there either? I don't think Black Bolt can breath/survive in space as well. I know Hulk can and I see your point but flight (lol) doesn't determine a power level. Wonder Woman also needs an oxegen mask, does she not qualify as a Herald?

carver9
Also Zop, show me these Martian Manhunter fts.

zopzop
Originally posted by carver9
So God Like Cable isn't a Herald? I'm asking.because he wouldnt be able to get there either? I don't think Black Bolt can breath/survive in space as well. I know Hulk can and I see your point but flight (lol) doesn't determine a power level. Wonder Woman also needs an oxegen mask, does she not qualify as a Herald?
You're not understanding me Carver.

Let me try this again. Certain characters like Hulk, for example, are CLEARLY (high) herald when it comes to certain abilities, like strength/stamina/durability. But they are LACKING in other areas.

Would you say Hulk has herald level travel speed (ie light speed and faster)? Can the transport himself between dimensions? Etc....

abhilegend
Originally posted by carver9
Also Zop, show me these Martian Manhunter fts.
http://www.comicvine.com/profile/saren/blog/martian-manhunter-respect-thread/85677/

Some of those are out of context, but its a good respect thread IMO.

carver9
Originally posted by zopzop
You're not understanding me Carver.

Let me try this again. Certain characters like Hulk, for example, are CLEARLY (high) herald when it comes to certain abilities, like strength/stamina/durability. But they are LACKING in other areas.

Would you say Hulk has herald level travel speed (ie light speed and faster)? Can the transport himself between dimensions? Etc....

But Orion, Black Adam, and Captain Marvel has never shown FTL travel speed. Martian Manhunter didn't as well. Your argument is flawed my friend. I clearly understand you but you are not making sense.

carver9
Originally posted by abhilegend
http://www.comicvine.com/profile/saren/blog/martian-manhunter-respect-thread/85677/

Some of those are out of context, but its a good respect thread IMO.

I know he have good fts but nothing like the fts Zop is mentioning.

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