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Pre-burned Anakin
Bloodlusted lightsaber match to the death
No telekinesis
Who takes this?

Maul

Anakin. Anakin crushed Dooku who was superior to Maul in every way.

Originally posted by playa1258
Anakin. Anakin crushed Dooku who was superior to Maul in every way.

Hmm Doko was a 100 year old man.

Maul took on Obiwan and Qui Gon in their primes, killed Qui Gon, and beat Obi in the saber battle, but the story had to let Obi win, so they found away.

Maul would make him look worse then he did Obiwan.

Palpatine was a old man and he was able to beat Maul/Oppress like they were nothing. Age has very little to do with it.

Threads been done.

But Anakin-Vader is superior to Maul. Padawan Obi gave Maul a decent run for his money, Master Obi would have soundly defeated Maul.

Originally posted by Robtard
Threads been done.

But Anakin-Vader is superior to Maul. Padawan Obi gave Maul a decent run for his money, Master Obi would have soundly defeated Maul.

Cmon now. He beat Obiwan and disarmed him from his saber and had him in a hole clinging for his life. Plot says Obi had to win, and Maul was disposable character.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Cmon now. He beat Obiwan and disarmed him from his saber and had him in a hole clinging for his life. Plot says Obi had to win, and Maul was disposable character.

Did you not read what I said? I said Obi despite being just a Padawan gave Maul a good run for his money; not that Obi defeated Maul in combat. Maul lost due to arrogance and plot.

Master Obi would soundly defeat Maul.

Originally posted by Robtard
Did you not read what I said? I said Obi despite being just a Padawan gave Maul a good run for his money; not that Obi defeated Maul in combat. Maul lost due to arrogance and plot.

Master Obi would soundly defeat Maul.

Ok, well I just don't see Padewan Obi giving Maul a run for his money, Maul disposed of him temporarily, got the kill on Qui Gon, Obi came back for more, he then got owned. Obi won yet, but not through direct light saber battle. Master Obi, sure he would wreck Maul, however when they fought, they were both apprentices.

In terms of lightsaber battles, I have never seen anyone on screen that has fought like Maul, he had complete control over the force, his moves, saber, environment.

Anyways, if thread been done before. I wont go on any further about it. cheers.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Ok, well I just don't see Padewan Obi giving Maul a run for his money, Maul disposed of him temporarily, got the kill on Qui Gon, Obi came back for more, he then got owned. Obi won yet, but not through direct light saber battle. Master Obi, sure he would wreck Maul, however when they fought, they were both apprentices.

In terms of lightsaber battles, I have never seen anyone on screen that has fought like Maul, he had complete control over the force, his moves, saber, environment.

Anyways, if thread been done before. I wont go on any further about it. cheers.

Watch the fight again and read the book... Obi was forcing Maul back and maul was having to fight hard to hold him off. He also partially disarmed Maul FIRST. Also, Maul couldn't get the better of a PADWAN Kenobi in sabers.. The ONLY time he gained his advantage was using a force push to disarm Kenobi and send him flying. Prior to that he wasn't able to disarm him in direct saber combat. Further, Kenobi was able to move so fast WHILE DISARMED and Maul was looking DIRECTLY at him and yet couldn't react fast enough to Kenobi attack that turned him into a pint sized midget.

Taking away Maul's force powers makes this a stomp in Anakin's favor if we're using ROTS Anakin. One of Maul's strength is his force powers and that would make him competitive with Anakin. Take those away and he gets owned by any Anakin after the Clone Wars.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Ok, well I just don't see Padewan Obi giving Maul a run for his money, Maul disposed of him temporarily, got the kill on Qui Gon, Obi came back for more, he then got owned. Obi won yet, but not through direct light saber battle. Master Obi, sure he would wreck Maul, however when they fought, they were both apprentices.

In terms of lightsaber battles, I have never seen anyone on screen that has fought like Maul, he had complete control over the force, his moves, saber, environment.

Anyways, if thread been done before. I wont go on any further about it. cheers.

He did. It wasn't some stomp in Maul's favor. Considering Obi was a Padawan, that is not in Maul's favor.

The Obv V Vader fight at the end of RoTS is far superior in speed, skill and reflexes. Either of those two outshine what we see Maul do.

It's fine, they can be merged if need be.

Obi-Wan was definitely at his strongest in RotS and Anakin almost beat him there. Not to mention that he beat Dooku as well. Anakin > Maul.

Originally posted by Robtard
He did. It wasn't some stomp in Maul's favor. Considering Obi was a Padawan, that is not in Maul's favor.

The Obv V Vader fight at the end of RoTS is far superior in speed, skill and reflexes. Either of those two outshine what we see Maul do.

It's fine, they can be merged if need be.

Is Jedi Padewan=Sith Apprentice?

In a sense yes. But Maul was speficically trained to be an assassin and at the time had far more training that a typical Padawan.

Originally posted by Robtard
Threads been done.

But Anakin-Vader is superior to Maul. Padawan Obi gave Maul a decent run for his money, Master Obi would have soundly defeated Maul.

Anakin and Obi-Wan were monsters in RotS. And you can't downplay Dooku. Before Anakin gave into his rage, he was walking the dog on both Obi(best defensive duelist in the galaxy) and Anakin(the chosen one).

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Cmon now. He beat Obiwan and disarmed him from his saber and had him in a hole clinging for his life. Plot says Obi had to win, and Maul was disposable character. Obi-Wan literally put Maul on his ass and cut his lightsaber in half. He had him pretty much on the ropes until the fateful force push into the pit.

Anakin beat Dooku, who is both a superior duelist and more powerful in the Force.

Anakin literally dis-arms him like he did Dooku then crushes his throat with his hand.

As an aside, I would have liked to have seen Maul try to stab Qui Gon/Obi with his head spikes.

Originally posted by KingD19
Anakin and Obi-Wan were monsters in RotS. And you can't downplay Dooku. Before Anakin gave into his rage, he was walking the dog on both Obi(best defensive duelist in the galaxy) and Anakin(the chosen one).

Aight fair enough, I guess I thought Maul was a good saber fighter, guess he ain't that good.

Maul was good. That's not in doubt. It's that the Maul we saw in comparison to Episode III Anakin isn't skilled enough for an opponent of that caliber.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Aight fair enough, I guess I thought Maul was a good saber fighter, guess he ain't that good.

Maul is good. He's just not beating ep3 Vader.

FFWD to 4:05

w42nD3vfUZ0

Originally posted by Robtard


Master Obi would soundly defeat Maul.

No. They've fought several times in TCW and "Master" Obi has never managed to defeat him. Kenobi seems to have the advantage in Saber skill whilst Maul seems more powerful in the Force. But overall they have been portrayed as pretty much equals.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
No. They've fought several times in TCW and "Master" Obi has never managed to defeat him. Kenobi seems to have the advantage in Saber skill whilst Maul seems more powerful in the Force. But overall they have been portrayed as pretty much equals.

Does that shit even count on this forum? Also didn't Obi-Wan handle Maul and Savage at the same time.

He did fight both of them off yeah. But Clone Wars is inconsistent. The undisputed master of Soresu(Obi-Wan) and one of the more powerful Jedi at the time had trouble with Maul.

But he also beat Maul and Savage. But when Savage was first introduced, he steamrolled everybody. Even Maul had trouble with that Mandalorian and had to resort to the Force or he would have gotten beaten.

Isn't Anakin stronger in the force?

Originally posted by Psychotron
Does that shit even count on this forum? Also didn't Obi-Wan handle Maul and Savage at the same time.

It does

go read the rules.

This is spite, Maul is outgunned by Vader in everyway possible. Either Dooku or Obi-wan would beat him handily.

Originally posted by Stoic
Isn't Anakin stronger in the force?

Than Maul? By all accounts yes going by feats in EP1-EP3 as wella s the Clone Wars if we're counting either series.

Originally posted by Kazenji
It does

go read the rules.

Then Anakin wins solidly.

Originally posted by Psychotron
Does that shit even count on this forum? Also didn't Obi-Wan handle Maul and Savage at the same time.

Yes, because it's canon to the movies. Not to mention the first episode was a movie.

As for the Obi-Wan vs Maul and Savage at the same time, he hardly "handled" them considering it ended with Maul blasting the wind out of Kenobi with the Force. Not to mention that was one fight out of several. And in all their fights Kenobi never managed to defeat Maul. They were pretty much equals.


Originally posted by Psychotron
Then Anakin wins solidly.

How does that make Anakin's win more convincing? I agree he wins, but going by the animation I'd say Maul makes him work for it.


Originally posted by Bentley
This is spite, Maul is outgunned by Vader in everyway possible. Either Dooku or Obi-wan would beat him handily.


Obi-Wan can't beat him handily. And he's tried several times.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Yes, because it's canon to the movies. Not to mention the first episode was a movie.

As for the Obi-Wan vs Maul and Savage at the same time, he hardly "handled" them considering it ended with Maul blasting the wind out of Kenobi with the Force. Not to mention that was one fight out of several. And in all their fights Kenobi never managed to defeat Maul. They were pretty much equals.




How does that make Anakin's win more convincing? I agree he wins, but going by the animation I'd say Maul makes him work for it.


Obi-Wan put him on his ass as a Padawan, Maul had to use his superior Force powers to push him into the pit.

He definitely handled them considering Savage lost an arm and Maul had to use his powers to bfr Obi-Wan again. I'd say that Obi-Wan, as motivated as he was when he faced both of them, would take an 8/10 at least against Maul in a duel. And I'd bet RotS Obi-Wan was stronger than his Clone Wars self, and he was still unable to beat Anakin until Anakin went full retard.

Originally posted by Psychotron
Obi-Wan put him on his ass as a Padawan, Maul had to use his superior Force powers to push him into the pit.

Padawan? Technically yes, he was Knighted the same day, so it's not like he was some noob. And how many times did Maul put Kenobi on his ass before that? At one point he disarmed his and completely knocked him senseless.

And I doubt he "HAD TO" Force push him down the pit. Just because he put him down one way doesn't mean there was no other way to put him down. Especially considering he already had floored him and disarmed him of his Saber previously in the fight.

Originally posted by Psychotron
He definitely handled them considering Savage lost an arm and Maul had to use his powers to bfr Obi-Wan again.

Considering Maul floored him Twice with the Force in that fight I wouldn't call it handling. The second time he knocked him senseless. But yeah he did very well in Sabers in that fight, yet still never managed to put Maul down.

Originally posted by Psychotron
I'd say that Obi-Wan, as motivated as he was when he faced both of them, would take an 8/10 at least against Maul in a duel. And I'd bet RotS Obi-Wan was stronger than his Clone Wars self, and he was still unable to beat Anakin until Anakin went full retard.


Replicate those same circumstances? Then yes I'd say in those circumstances Kenobi would take Maul in a pure Saber fight, given that was a peak performance for Obi-Wan, and an average performance by Maul. But going by all their fights I'd say a Saber fight between them would be a 50/50 split. I may be convinced to give it 55/45 to Kenobi though. But then I'd say Maul's superior force powers give him a definite edge in an all out.

That last fight was in season 5, so not too far off from ROTS. And Maul was also growing more powerful since that fight (he was still getting back into the swing of things at that point).

Yes Anakin wins. But Maul makes him work for it.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Padawan? Technically yes, he was Knighted the same day, so it's not like he was some noob. And how many times did Maul put Kenobi on his ass before that? At one point he disarmed his and completely knocked him senseless.

And I doubt he "HAD TO" Force push him down the pit. Just because he put him down one way doesn't mean there was no other way to put him down. Especially considering he already had floored him and disarmed him of his Saber previously in the fight.



Considering Maul floored him Twice with the Force in that fight I wouldn't call it handling. The second time he knocked him senseless. But yeah he did very well in Sabers in that fight, yet still never managed to put Maul down.




Replicate those same circumstances? Then yes I'd say in those circumstances Kenobi would take Maul in a pure Saber fight, given that was a peak performance for Obi-Wan, and an average performance by Maul. But going by all their fights I'd say a Saber fight between them would be a 50/50 split. I may be convinced to give it 55/45 to Kenobi though. But then I'd say Maul's superior force powers give him a definite edge in an all out.

That last fight was in season 5, so not too far off from ROTS. And Maul was also growing more powerful since that fight (he was still getting back into the swing of things at that point).

Yes Anakin wins. But Maul makes him work for it.

Yeah, he got knighted on the same day, but you can't deny that he was far from his peak both as a duelist and in the Force. When did Maul disarm Obi-Wan? I remember he knocked him off one of the walkways, and they didn't cross sabers again until Maul had already killed Qui-Gon.

Obi-Wan cut his saber in half and knocked him down, Maul tried to go on the offensive again, but couldn't subdue him. Seemed to me that he had to use the Force.

I'm not denying that Maul is Obi-Wan's superior in the Force, but Kenobi is definitely the better duelist. By RotS he's well above Maul imo. Anakin was stronger in the Force than Obi-Wan so he wouldn't get owned like Kenobi.

How much stronger could he have gotten with just half of his body?

Originally posted by Psychotron
Yeah, he got knighted on the same day, but you can't deny that he was far from his peak both as a duelist and in the Force. When did Maul disarm Obi-Wan? I remember he knocked him off one of the walkways, and they didn't cross sabers again until Maul had already killed Qui-Gon.

Kenobi was disarmed when he was knocked off the walkway. There was another kick before that where he was floored but not disarmed.

Originally posted by Psychotron
Obi-Wan cut his saber in half and knocked him down, Maul tried to go on the offensive again, but couldn't subdue him. Seemed to me that he had to use the Force.

A Force push is just a standard part of a Lightsaber fight. If Kenobi attempted to block the Force push but still got knocked off, then I'd agree with you. But the fact that he couldn't/didn't block it in time shows Maul just outfought him Imo. It's upto Kenobi to watch out for kicks and Force push's during the fight.

Originally posted by Psychotron
I'm not denying that Maul is Obi-Wan's superior in the Force, but Kenobi is definitely the better duelist. By RotS he's well above Maul imo. Anakin was stronger in the Force than Obi-Wan so he wouldn't get owned like Kenobi.

How much stronger could he have gotten with just half of his body?

Find it hard to put Kenobi solidly above him looking at their Clone War fights.

Maul was out of action for 10+years, so needed time to get back into form. Plus his hate grew more powerful than ever according to the narrator, and Savage himself noted how Maul's powers were growing. And btw his 5 second stompage of Opress in the same episode was an awesome feat considering some of Opress's previous feats.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Kenobi was disarmed when he was knocked off the walkway. There was another kick before that where he was floored but not disarmed.



A Force push is just a standard part of a Lightsaber fight. If Kenobi attempted to block the Force push but still got knocked off, then I'd agree with you. But the fact that he couldn't/didn't block it in time shows Maul just outfought him Imo. It's upto Kenobi to watch out for kicks and Force push's during the fight.



Find it hard to put Kenobi solidly above him looking at their Clone War fights.

Maul was out of action for 10+years, so needed time to get back into form. Plus his hate grew more powerful than ever according to the narrator, and Savage himself noted how Maul's powers were growing. And btw his 5 second stompage of Opress in the same episode was an awesome feat considering some of Opress's previous feats.

Ah, yes. It was mostly due to the fall though. Still, Maul couldn't do that to him when Kenobi went all out after Jinn's death.

I'm not saying that Maul cheated or anything, I'm saying Kenobi was the superior duelist. Dooku took him out with the Force, too. Looks like Obi-Wan's Force defenses are not in the same league as his saber skills. However, Anakin is stronger in the Force so it won't be a problem for him.

He should be based on his fight Grevious, Anakin, and the Zabrak brothers.

Yeah, I guess that makes sense, but it makes you wonder why Vader was so handicapped when didn't lose as much as Maul did. Must be psychological.

Don't mind DP.. he's a good guy and knows his star wars stuff.. he just has a slight hard-on for Maul. Deep down though.. He knows Kenobi is his superior.

Originally posted by Psychotron
Ah, yes. It was mostly due to the fall though. Still, Maul couldn't do that to him when Kenobi went all out after Jinn's death.

Well it's not every day your mentor dies, so I don't really take that as a standard showing that he can do whenever he likes.

Originally posted by Psychotron
I'm not saying that Maul cheated or anything, I'm saying Kenobi was the superior duelist. Dooku took him out with the Force, too. Looks like Obi-Wan's Force defenses are not in the same league as his saber skills. However, Anakin is stronger in the Force so it won't be a problem for him.


Kenobi may be the superior duelist to Maul, but not by much Imho. Also in their last CW fight (season 6) Dooku was dealing with Kenobi without use of the Force. But then Dooku is on another level tbh.

Originally posted by Psychotron
He should be based on his fight Grevious, Anakin, and the Zabrak brothers.

Fair. But I think it's a shame we didn't get to see Maul fight many different force users, even after his come back in TCW. His brother Savage actually has more feats to his name, even though Maul showed he can stomp Savage.

Originally posted by Psychotron
Yeah, I guess that makes sense, but it makes you wonder why Vader was so handicapped when didn't lose as much as Maul did. Must be psychological.

Maul lost his legs (and private parts ), but Vader lost his arms and legs, and was burnt to a crisp needing to live off life support. So he required that huge chunk of armor which really limited his mobility. Maul though was able to regain his mobility which was always an important part of his combat style.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Well it's not every day your mentor dies, so I don't really take that as a standard showing that he can do whenever he likes.




Kenobi may be the superior duelist to Maul, but not by much Imho. Also in their last CW fight (season 6) Dooku was dealing with Kenobi without use of the Force. But then Dooku is on another level tbh.



Fair. But I think it's a shame we didn't get to see Maul fight many different force users, even after his come back in TCW. His brother Savage actually has more feats to his name, even though Maul showed he can stomp Savage.



Maul lost his legs (and private parts ), but Vader lost his arms and legs, and was burnt to a crisp needing to live off life support. So he required that huge chunk of armor which really limited his mobility. Maul though was able to regain his mobility which was always an important part of his combat style.

Yeah, obviously this was Obi-Wan at his (then) 100%. But I would think that Maul would pretty much always be running at peak efficiency due to the nature of his training.

Well, yeah, Dooku is >> Kenobi, but Obi-Wan's style is poorly suited for Dooku's. Perhaps if Obi-Wan had mastered Ataru instead, he could have given Dooku a better fight.

The fight with Sidious was pretty cool, though Sidious was clearly toying with them. But they shouldn't have brought Maul back, it was stupid.

Vader didn't lose the whole of his limbs, only the parts under his elbows/knees. If it didn't hinder Maul that much, it shouldn't have hindered Vader either. And then there's Grevious.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
No. They've fought several times in TCW and "Master" Obi has never managed to defeat him. Kenobi seems to have the advantage in Saber skill whilst Maul seems more powerful in the Force. But overall they have been portrayed as pretty much equals.

GTFO with your non film nonsense. That's also different skilled chars compared to EP1 Maul and Ep3 Obi, son.

Originally posted by Psychotron
Yeah, obviously this was Obi-Wan at his (then) 100%. But I would think that Maul would pretty much always be running at peak efficiency due to the nature of his training.

Nah Sith also have their peak performances. For Maul it would be against Sidious after Savage died.



Originally posted by Psychotron
Vader didn't lose the whole of his limbs, only the parts under his elbows/knees. If it didn't hinder Maul that much, it shouldn't have hindered Vader either. And then there's Grevious.

Vader was carrying that huge chunk of machinery which Maul didn't have to. It was basically down to Vader needing life support. Grievous was all manchine. He wasn't carrying machine on top of his regular body. There wasn't much left at all of his body.


Originally posted by Robtard
GTFO with your non film nonsense. That's also different skilled chars compared to EP1 Maul and Ep3 Obi, son.

LOL TCW is canon to the films. Created by Lucas himself. In fact TCW Movie was a movie. It's like if we're talking Star Trek films, it would be perfectly legitimate to bring up Star Trek episodes as it's all a shared universe. Same with using Lady Sif feats from Agents of SHIELD.

The OP hasn't stated this is Episode 1 Maul. And even if he did, as Pschotron has noted TCW Maul was probably actually hindered by his cybernetic parts, not to mention he was out of training for 10+ years. So EPI Maul is not likely to be drastically less powerful than TCW Maul. Besides you want to compare characters in their prime don't you? Or just the heroes in their prime to make them win more easily Lol.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Nah Sith also have their peak performances. For Maul it would be against Sidious after Savage died.





Vader was carrying that huge chunk of machinery which Maul didn't have to. It was basically down to Vader needing life support. Grievous was all manchine. He wasn't carrying machine on top of his regular body. There wasn't much left at all of his body.




LOL TCW is canon to the films. Created by Lucas himself. In fact TCW Movie was a movie. It's like if we're talking Star Trek films, it would be perfectly legitimate to bring up Star Trek episodes as it's all a shared universe. Same with using Lady Sif feats from Agents of SHIELD.

The OP hasn't stated this is Episode 1 Maul. And even if he did, as Pschotron has noted TCW Maul was probably actually hindered by his cybernetic parts, not to mention he was out of training for 10+ years. So EPI Maul is not likely to be drastically less powerful than TCW Maul. Besides you want to compare characters in their prime don't you? Or just the heroes in their prime to make them win more easily Lol.

True, but the nature of their philosophy forces them to push themselves more than the Jedi do. Especially since PT era Jedi had gotten complacent and arrogant.

I don't think he was carrying that much to be honest. The prosthetics and the life support are probably lighter than an entire lower body.

Vader was haulin plenty of weight. In fact I believe Sidious made his cybernetics intentionally heavy and bulky. So much in fact that he had trouble moving and was stiff for a long time.

Vader was burdened by bulky machinery. Maul was not.

Originally posted by Firefly218
Vader was burdened by bulky machinery. Maul was not.

Yeah, he only had 50% of his body replaced.

Originally posted by KingD19
Vader was haulin plenty of weight. In fact I believe Sidious made his cybernetics intentionally heavy and bulky. So much in fact that he had trouble moving and was stiff for a long time.

And why would Sidious do that?

Anakin is Maul superior is virtually every way... Just how it is.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Anakin is Maul superior is virtually every way... Just how it is.



Anakin at the point he defeated Dooku would stomp Maul for sure. But take Anakin on an average day and he won't that much above Maul. And certainly won't have greater force powers to him.

I know you like Maul DP and that's cool.. you know how I feel about Mace and Kenobi... I would concede that an average portrayal of Anakin means that Maul would be about equal in force powers. He could be his slight superior. That is pretty much it though... it would be enough to make it a good fight but it's Anakin fight to lose.. and I think you agree with that.

Anakin stomps.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
I know you like Maul DP and that's cool.. you know how I feel about Mace and Kenobi... I would concede that an average portrayal of Anakin means that Maul would be about equal in force powers. He could be his slight superior. That is pretty much it though... it would be enough to make it a good fight but it's Anakin fight to lose.. and I think you agree with that.


Even a Saber fight there wouldn't be much difference if we take Anakin on an average day. He's pretty much Kenobi's equal but stronger. Kenobi seems to have the edge in Sabers over Maul, but again Maul is stronger.

Yes I agree Aankin would win, but on an average day Maul would give him a hell of a fight Imho. I mean whose stomped Maul? Sidious, and that's it. Maul's taken down Opress with much more ease than Kenobi did. And Opress himself has taken down Ventress with greater ease than Kenobi ever did, plus he's given Dooku a much better fight than Kenobi ever could.

So given all that, yes I agree Anakin would win, but I see no reason to think it won't be a close fight. As long as we're talking about Anakin on a normal day. If we're talking about Anakin at the point he defeated Dooku, then he'd stomp Maul.

Maul's like Boba Fett, looks cool, sounds cool and popular cos of the 'bad boy' status, but really he just a chump who gets his ass kicked.

Originally posted by Psychotron




And why would Sidious do that?

Strategy.

His apprentice had the potential to vastly surpass his level of power. Obi-Wan put and end to that. To further cement his power and keep Vader under control was to make his cybernetics unwieldy. Sidious ruled the galaxy and there were faroee efficient replacement body parts.

Is Vader having unweildly life-support gear on purpose canon or are you guessing?

I have wondered that too, considering how agile Greivous's robtocis were. But that was also done after the fact.

I believe it's canon but I'd have to search a bit to be sure. Like ou said, Grievous was a monster and even Anakon's replacement hand from his fight with Dooku was far more easily installed. He even seemed to forgo anesthetics during the surgery.

It's canon in the EU, iirc. Palpatine purposefully instilled a couple "leashes" into Vader to keep him loyal and nonthreatening to his rule, two of those leashes being sub-optimal bionics to slow him down, and low self-esteem (lol) so that he doesn't become too powerful in the force.

It's noted that a lot of Vader's reduction in power post-Mustafaar is psychological, rather than physical.

Part of the issue has always been mental with Anakin.. thing is though.. he count went WAY down after he was dismembered. That is the main reason why his powers could and would never be the same again. His count went down.

Originally posted by Tzeentch
It's canon in the EU, iirc. Palpatine purposefully instilled a couple "leashes" into Vader to keep him loyal and nonthreatening to his rule, two of those leashes being sub-optimal bionics to slow him down, and low self-esteem (lol) so that he doesn't become too powerful in the force.

It's noted that a lot of Vader's reduction in power post-Mustafaar is psychological, rather than physical.

http://users.content.ytmnd.com/d/0/f/d0f152ba3b57b9699cf0ae314ec477d8.jpg

But it's not hard to imagine going through a massive mind**** if your penis was burnt off.

Originally posted by Tzeentch
It's canon in the EU, iirc. Palpatine purposefully instilled a couple "leashes" into Vader to keep him loyal and nonthreatening to his rule, two of those leashes being sub-optimal bionics to slow him down, and low self-esteem (lol) so that he doesn't become too powerful in the force.

It's noted that a lot of Vader's reduction in power post-Mustafaar is psychological, rather than physical.

Sidious and Anakin have an abusive spouse relationship. Star Wars is an exaggerated metaphor for overcoming domestic abuse.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Sidious and Anakin have an abusive spouse relationship. Star Wars is an exaggerated metaphor for overcoming domestic abuse.

Originally posted by Tzeentch
It's canon in the EU, iirc. Palpatine purposefully instilled a couple "leashes" into Vader to keep him loyal and nonthreatening to his rule, two of those leashes being sub-optimal bionics to slow him down, and low self-esteem (lol) so that he doesn't become too powerful in the force.

It's noted that a lot of Vader's reduction in power post-Mustafaar is psychological, rather than physical.

Yeah, but isn't it the philosophy of the Sith that the apprentice must kill the master and take his place?

Originally posted by Psychotron
Yeah, but isn't it the philosophy of the Sith that the apprentice must kill the master and take his place?

The Rule of Two initiated by Darth Bane states that there can only be Two Sith at any given time. One to embody the power(Master), and one to crave it(Apprentice). When the apprentice gets powerful enough, they'll try to kill the master. If they succeed, then they've passed the test and are worthy of succeeding their master while choosing a new apprentice to repeat the cycle. If the Apprentice fails, then the Master just finds a new apprentice.

So while yes, the apprentice is destined to attempt to rise up and overthrow the master. But that doesn't mean it'll be successful. They're Sith after all. They're not just gonna sit back and let themselves be killed. They'll try everything to stay the Master.

Originally posted by Robtard
Maul's like Boba Fett, looks cool, sounds cool and popular cos of the 'bad boy' status, but really he just a chump who gets his ass kicked.

Lol the only person whose actually "kicked his ass" is Sidious.

Kenobi only defeated him in TPM through a fluke move, yes down to Maul's own cockiness and clumsiness too, but still a complete fluke.

Originally posted by KingD19
The Rule of Two initiated by Darth Bane states that there can only be Two Sith at any given time. One to embody the power(Master), and one to crave it(Apprentice). When the apprentice gets powerful enough, they'll try to kill the master. If they succeed, then they've passed the test and are worthy of succeeding their master while choosing a new apprentice to repeat the cycle. If the Apprentice fails, then the Master just finds a new apprentice.

So while yes, the apprentice is destined to attempt to rise up and overthrow the master. But that doesn't mean it'll be successful. They're Sith after all. They're not just gonna sit back and let themselves be killed. They'll try everything to stay the Master.

Sidious' line about Vader becoming more powerful than either him or Yoda implies that he wants Vader to succeed him.

Originally posted by Psychotron
Sidious' line about Vader becoming more powerful than either him or Yoda implies that he wants Vader to succeed him.




Sidious's "fantasy" would have been to have Vader reach his full potential, grow much more powerful than Sidious himself, but then he obviously would have liked to have kept his loyalty somehow.

Originally posted by Psychotron
Yeah, but isn't it the philosophy of the Sith that the apprentice must kill the master and take his place?

Yes, but George Lucas introduced the completely pointless idea of Anakin being the 'strongest evar' which directly jeopardizes this concept and therefore requires more BS to retroactively explain why Vader doesn't just stomp on the Emperor's neck instead of being his ***** in the OT.

Moosie Poo turns me on when he talks star wars.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Moosie Poo turns me on when he talks star wars.

I see you successfully ignored the LotR debate for another week.

I win.

Negative.. I already won that buddy... You know it.. don't deny it.

Superior battle kills
superior durability
Leader in battle

and = better warrior

Sauran is a better politician and in the dark arts.

Stop denying the indisputable facts moosie poo

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Negative.. I already won that buddy... You know it.. don't deny it.

Superior battle kills
superior durability
Leader in battle

and = better warrior

Sauran is a better politician and in the dark arts.

Stop denying the indisputable facts moosie poo

You mean you just reasserted the same baseless things over and over?

Yeah, you're right about that.

Darth Maul wins.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Lol the only person whose actually "kicked his ass" is Sidious.

Kenobi only defeated him in TPM through a fluke move, yes down to Maul's own cockiness and clumsiness too, but still a complete fluke.

Nah, he's another Boba. Supposed to be a badass, then gets his ass worked by a blind man with a stick.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Darth Maul wins.

Based on?

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Yes, but George Lucas introduced the completely pointless idea of Anakin being the 'strongest evar' which directly jeopardizes this concept and therefore requires more BS to retroactively explain why Vader doesn't just stomp on the Emperor's neck instead of being his ***** in the OT.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER


Sidious's "fantasy" would have been to have Vader reach his full potential, grow much more powerful than Sidious himself, but then he obviously would have liked to have kept his loyalty somehow.

This wouldn't have happened if Lucas wasn't a hack.

Originally posted by Psychotron
Sidious' line about Vader becoming more powerful than either him or Yoda implies that he wants Vader to succeed him.


But then he got handicapped. He could never surpass Sidious after losing do msny midichlorians.

Originally posted by playa1258
Based on? Phantom Menace and Revenge of the Sith.

Originally posted by KingD19
But then he got handicapped. He could never surpass Sidious after losing do msny midichlorians.

I think the handicap was psychological. Yoda would have had less midichlorians than anyone else, but he's still one of the most powerful.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Phantom Menace and Revenge of the Sith.

He lost to a padawan and Anakin beat an opponent who is considered more powerful than Maul.

Anakin.

Originally posted by Psychotron
I think the handicap was psychological. Yoda would have had less midichlorians than anyone else, but he's still one of the most powerful.

It was stated him losing his limbs was why he could never reach his full potential. He couldn't even use certain powers like Force Lightning since he couldn't surge electricity through his cybernetics.

Originally posted by KingD19
It was stated him losing his limbs was why he could never reach his full potential. He couldn't even use certain powers like Force Lightning since he couldn't surge electricity through his cybernetics.

Didn't Sidious think in one of the novels that the reason Vader is so gimped is because of psychological issues?

It was outright stated that Losing limbs means he had less Midichlorians in his body after that. That and him not being as mobile is why he could never reach his potential. He literally had less in him after that. What did you say about Yoda having fewer.. he had the most besides Anakin.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
It was outright stated that Losing limbs means he had less Midichlorians in his body after that. That and him not being as mobile is why he could never reach his potential. He literally had less in him after that. What did you say about Yoda having fewer.. he had the most besides Anakin.

Yeah, but Yoda is much smaller than Anakin, thus he has a smaller amount of midichlorians, and yet he's the most powerful Jedi, so it's obviously not that simple. It's like Yoda said in Empire: "Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter", something George "Boy Toy" Lucas forgot.

Size doesn't = Midichlorians. The average Human has about 2,500 per cell. Jedi have a higher amount, but Anakin had about 20k per cell because of his unique birth.

Yoda's people can be thought to just have naturally high midi counts, as every member we've seen has been a very high up Jedi Master.

Originally posted by KingD19
Size doesn't = Midichlorians.

No, because the total amount of midichlorians would be the amount per cell multiplied by the amount of cells. Since Yoda is so small he should have far less cells and thus less midichlorians than even mediocre Jedi, but we all know that's not the case. This is just the result of Lucas being a shitty writer.

Originally posted by playa1258
He lost to a padawan and Anakin beat an opponent who is considered more powerful than Maul. He defeated him and was overconfident so that isn't the same thing as being destroyed by Dooku initially or defeated by Obi.