Shaak Ti vs. Savage Opress

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carthage
Force, sabers, all out

Intrepid37
Savage absolutely trounces her.

Nephthys
TFU Shaak Ti would trounce Opress.

Intrepid37
Originally posted by Nephthys
TFU Shaak Ti would trounce Opress.
Prove there's a difference between TFU Shaak Ti and PT Shaak Ti.

Nephthys
TFU Ti has superior feats, such as changing an entire planets force alignment, mind-controlling a Saarlac while fighting and fighting evenly with Galen Marek.

Intrepid37
Originally posted by Nephthys
TFU Ti has superior feats, such as changing an entire planets force alignment, mind-controlling a Saarlac while fighting and fighting evenly with Galen Marek.
She might a better Force practitioner than her earlier incarnation (spelled?), but as Obi-Wan has demonstrated, lack of lightsaber practice diminishes one's ability with it. There's no reason to think she's a more skilled swordsman in TFU than in the PT.

Nephthys
She was pressing Marek hard in lightsaber combat. In the book she would have killed him if he hadn't of blocked her with the Force.

Intrepid37
Originally posted by Nephthys
She was pressing Marek hard in lightsaber combat. In the book she would have killed him if he hadn't of blocked her with the Force.
This proves nothing at all. Marek was losing to Paratus, Kota and Brood as well. He's just not a very good duelist.

DARTH POWER
^ Plus she spent years on Felucia to gain that kind of control over the environment there.

Also TFU.. Not canon now I believe.

Nephthys
Originally posted by Intrepid37
This proves nothing at all. Marek was losing to Paratus, Kota and Brood as well. He's just not a very good duelist.

No he wasn't. He kicked Paratus and Brood's ass. I can't recall Kota but it was his first Jedi fight. Marek is said to have 'near perfect' lightsaber skills, **** off with that 'not a very good duelist' shite.

Intrepid37
Originally posted by Nephthys
No he wasn't. He kicked Paratus and Brood's ass. I can't recall Kota but it was his first Jedi fight. Marek is said to have 'near perfect' lightsaber skills, **** off with that 'not a very good duelist' shite.
Yes, he was. Paratus was winning against Marek in the lightsaber duel portion of the fight, and against Brood, Marek had to switch to a style unfimilar to her to get an advantage. Against Kota, Marek was again losing, only winning because of Kota having a vision. And ''near perfect'' is hyperbolic

Nephthys
Originally posted by Intrepid37
Yes, he was. Paratus was winning against Marek in the lightsaber duel portion of the fight,

Nope:

"Paratus lunged while the apprentice was momentarily distracted. The pike left a shallow cut down his left forearm before he could repulse the strange creature's attack. Part flesh and part machine, the renegade Jedi Master was proficient with the Force, and quick with it as well. Every blow the apprentice tried to make was instantly blocked by either end of the whirling pike. As fast as he lunged or retreated, the mechanical legs outpaced him. Paratus hopped around the dilapidated chamber like a deranged jumping spider."

Neither winning nor losing, though obviously Galen was at a disadvantage by getting hit and having to fight through thousands of droids and Paratus' droid golem first. Thats the entire lightsaber portion of the fight btw.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
and against Brood, Marek had to switch to a style unfimilar to her to get an advantage.

Nope:

"Her eyes blazed red as she rained blow after blow upon him. He staggered backward, weakened by more than just his battle with the bull rancor.

He was fighting himself-but not in some flashback-inspired hallucination, where the Jedi and the Sith warred in him for control of his future. This time the fight was real, and his opponent was as joyously rich in the dark side as he had ever been. She, too, had lost someone she cared deeply about; she, too, had been sent out into the hard galaxy to fend for herself. They should be helping each other, not fighting each other. But with Bail Organa watching, he couldn't even raise the possibility of a truce. He was even using Soresu moves against her raw, unpredictable lunges, just as the vision of himself had done in Jedi robes. And yet. . .

As he defended himself, he saw nothing but self-pity and fear in her eyes. Both were inferior to pure anger, although both could be potent gateways to the true mastery of the dark side that his Master had demonstrated to him. Maris was a newcomer, barely beginning her journey-as he, too, was journeying along a path toward full mastery. For the first time, he understood that the

I one didn't come in two shades only: dark and light, distinct and combative, never meeting in the middle to form gray. Those were ideals, and ideals existed solely for philosophers and theoreticians to argue over. In the real world, dark and light coexisted in varying proportions; nothing was ever static. Thus this former Jedi Padawan could turn to the dark side after a lifetime serving the light-and she could just as easily turn back to the light afterward, if she survived.

Light, dark, Shaak Ti had tried to tell him, they are just directions.

We're always moving, he thought, toward the dark or toward the light. It's impossible to stand still. Some, like Darth Vader and the Emperor, had been descending through the dark side for so long that the light must have become a faint and distant memory. Some hovered eternally in the gray, never entirely choosing a side. There were, in fact, no actual sides, just the direction in which one happened to be moving. It was all relative.

Coming to that understanding gave him a new kind of strength. When Sith betrayed one another, it wasn't because they were enemies. Their paths had simply diverged. So fighting Maris wasn't turning his back on the dark side. She was simply in his way, like so many other people before him.

Do not be fooled, Shaak Ti had also said, as so many have before you, that you walk on anything other than your own two feet.

Blocking Maris Brood's spinning strikes, he changed from the staid form of Soresu into the more aggressive Juyo favored by the dark side. Maris noticed the shift in his fighting style but, having only been trained in Jedi methods, failed to understand what it meant. She continued attacking with increasing desperation, even as he began to drive her back across the mounds of bones, past the body of her giant pet and away from Senator Organa. Her breathing became hard and her moves less focused. Fear began to dominate the wild look in her eyes. She was close to losing her concentration entirely.

Use the fear, he wanted to tell her. Use the fear to make you angry, because anger makes you strong. I killed your Master. Mm, tried to kill me and I am stronger for it. You could be, too, if you would only realize that simple truth!

But even in the depths of her darkness, the light had corrupted her too deeply. She was a lost cause.

Enough, he thought.

Raising his left hand, he used the Force to lift a mound of bones into the air. Rattling and tumbling, they swirled around tin two of them, picking up speed. Maris didn't know where to look. While she was distracted, he disarmed her with two swift, precise moves. Her blades skittered away through the bones and she fell back, rubbing her singed forearms. Defiance gleamed in her eyes, but too late. Much too late.

When she turned to run, he struck her in the back with Sith lightning and she fell sprawling to the bones."

He didn't need to do anything. He was weakened and confused and still kicked her ass.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Against Kota, Marek was again losing, only winning because of Kota having a vision.

Nope:

"Suddenly Kota was moving, charging with astonishing speed behind a furious diversity of strokes. The apprentice retreated with lips pulled back over his teeth. This is more like it! Green and red energies clashed as he blocked blow after blow and still Kota kept coming, attempting to overwhelm him with sheer determination and speed. The apprentice went back four steps, then stopped. He drew his blade close around him, forming a tight defense in deliberate imitation of the Soresu style that Obi-Wan Kenobi had favored. Realizing he couldn't penetrate it, Kota backed off and tried a different style-slow, deliberate, with sudden and devastatingly quick strikes. These, too, the apprentice parried, and when the old man's guard looked to be slipping, he offered strikes of his own.

The duel raged all across the control center, which shook and rattled as the facility around it broke apart. The apprentice ignored everything else-Juno's voice, the wildly fluctuating gravity, the never-ending explosions, the rising temperature of the floor beneath him-in order to concentrate solely on this one vital battle. Kota wouldn't beat him, but could he beat Kota? He had to. He would rather go down with the ship than break off and admit failure. Darth Vader's secret apprentice knew which fate would await him if he did.

The general was wily and strong and possessed some moves the apprentice had never seen before. But he was older and willfully ignorant of the dark side of the Force. He attempted his charge attack two more times, obviously hoping to force a mistake or wear out his opponent, but it was he who started to show the effects of the duel, he who took hits. Soon his cloak was a smoking rag and one of his shoulder pads was glowing red-hot."

Looks to me like Marek was winning. wink

Originally posted by Intrepid37
And ''near perfect'' is hyperbolic

So what? The obvious meaning is that Marek is exceptionally skilled.

Intrepid37
Too much text dude.

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by Nephthys


So what? The obvious meaning is that Marek is exceptionally skilled.

Well to be fair so are most the council members, including Fisto, Tiin and Kolar. But I doubt any of them would take Opress for a majority.

Nephthys
Originally posted by Intrepid37
Too much text dude.

Well that explains why you were so wrong. Did all the big words make it too hard for you to read, Intrepi-chan? Next time actually read the book before you try to throw info about it around.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Well to be fair so are most the council members, including Fisto, Tiin and Kolar. But I doubt any of them would take Opress for a majority.

For other reasons. I doubt anyone would say that they aren't more skilled than him.

Intrepid37
A respond is forthcoming, you pile of garbage.

Nephthys
Your attempt at flattery is so hamhanded. Can't you do better for this boards greatest yuckster?

Intrepid37
Against Paratus, he's clearly driven on the back foot.



Against Brood, you're right that he wasn't losing, but he wasn't winning either, he was only even with her.

And against Kota, they were also only even with each other.



So that's two even fights and one where he was on the losing end. Savage, on the other hand, casually beat Plo Koon and had an edge over Ventress as well, both of them with better feats than Ti.

Nephthys
Originally posted by Intrepid37
Against Paratus, he's clearly driven on the back foot.

Not really. He wasn't able to successfully attack him or retreat because Paratus's robo-legs were too fast. But he wasn't being driven back or anything. He was still able to get enough openings to blast Paratus with lightning multiple times, so its not as if he was being pressed hard.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Against Brood, you're right that he wasn't losing, but he wasn't winning either, he was only even with her.

And Marek notes that he's weakened and was 'fighting himself'. When he wants the fight to end he beats her in a few attacks. And even before that, when he switched to Juyo he was pushing her back.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
And against Kota, they were also only even with each other.

Er, no. You missed the part after that quote where Marek switches to Soresu and completely stops Kota's advance, before wearing him out and gaining the upper hand.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
So that's two even fights and one where he was on the losing end. Savage, on the other hand, casually beat Plo Koon and had an edge over Ventress as well, both of them with better feats than Ti.

Not better than TFU Ti.

Intrepid37
Originally posted by Nephthys
Not really. He wasn't able to successfully attack him or retreat because Paratus's robo-legs were too fast. But he wasn't being driven back or anything. He was still able to get enough openings to blast Paratus with lightning multiple times, so its not as if he was being pressed hard.
He was able to attack him, per the text; all of his attempts were just blocked. Paratus' legs didn't help Marek, but he definitely weren't the more skillful of the two.

Originally posted by Nephthys
And Marek notes that he's weakened and was 'fighting himself'.
lol

Which was why he was using Soresu, to compensate.


Originally posted by Nephthys
When he wants the fight to end he beats her in a few attacks.

He beat her with the Force, not with his lightsaber.

Originally posted by Nephthys
And even before that, when he switched to Juyo he was pushing her back.
Because, as I said, she was unfamilar with the style he used. He was overwhelming her because of her lack of knowledge of Juyo, not because he was a more skilled swordsman.




Originally posted by Nephthys
Er, no. You missed the part after that quote where Marek switches to Soresu and completely stops Kota's advance, before wearing him out and gaining the upper hand.
Actually, I didn't miss it. If I was only going off the excerpt I provided, then I would have claimed that Kota was better, but I said they were even because of what occurs afterwards.


Originally posted by Nephthys
Not better than TFU Ti.
Don't be ridiculous. It's reasonable to opine that, because of her lack of using her lightsaber, her level of skill would be lower than in the PT. But even if she was still as skilled in TFU as in the PT, Asajj and Plo are more skilled than her. As the scan you provided yesterday confirmed, Ti was forced to retreat fast, whereas Ventress regularly gives Anakin trouble. Plo was even with Ventress, so the same should go for him.

Nephthys
Originally posted by Intrepid37
He was able to attack him, per the text; all of his attempts were just blocked. Paratus' legs didn't help Marek, but he definitely weren't the more skillful of the two.

I know. Hence why I wrote that he wasn't able to successfully attack him, not that he couldn't attack him at all.

So anyway, you admit that Paratus was not beating him?

Originally posted by Intrepid37
lol

Which was why he was using Soresu, to compensate.

Um, yeah. He was just blocking her attacks while he recovered physically and mentally.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
He beat her with the Force, not with his lightsaber.

He distracted her with the Force, he didn't beat her with it. Also, if she was his equal then he wouldn't have been able to use the Force in such a flamboyant manner without her pressing him in lightsabers.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Because, as I said, she was unfamilar with the style he used. He was overwhelming her because of her lack of knowledge of Juyo, not because he was a more skilled swordsman.

Which only means that. Not that he couldn't overwhelm her with a style she was familiar with. He did not need to switch to it, he just did so.


Originally posted by Intrepid37
Actually, I didn't miss it. If I was only going off the excerpt I provided, then I would have claimed that Kota was better, but I said they were even because of what occurs afterwards.

You mean where Galen pulls off a Soresu victory with him wearing Kota down and striking him when he gets sloppy? The exact thing someone using Soresu should be doing?

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Don't be ridiculous. It's reasonable to opine that, because of her lack of using her lightsaber, her level of skill would be lower than in the PT. But even if she was still as skilled in TFU as in the PT, Asajj and Plo are more skilled than her. As the scan you provided yesterday confirmed, Ti was forced to retreat fast, whereas Ventress regularly gives Anakin trouble. Plo was even with Ventress, so the same should go for him.

And I suppose she taught Maris Brood how to fight with sticks instead of lightsabers, did she? roll eyes (sarcastic)

ABC logic. Ventress didn't give pissed-off dark side RotS Anakin a hard fight. In fact, as I recall he beat the shit out of her the last time they fought in CW. And Plo isn't more skilled than her. Plus Savage beat him by pulling his mask off when he was distracted, not in lightsaber combat.

Also, Shaak Ti was giving Galen Marek a tough time in combat. Marek was able to deal with Vaders strength and in TFUII his clone would toss a TIE fighter with his bare hands. So I don't think Savages strength would do much good here.

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by Nephthys
Plus Savage beat him by pulling his mask off when he was distracted, not in lightsaber combat.



I don't remeber Plo being distracted?

Savage never wins through pure Saber skills. He pounds on his foes with his strength, whether they be Lightsaber blows or Physical blows), and uses his tremendous Raw TK Power on them.

PTforthewin
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Well to be fair so are most the council members, including Fisto, Tiin and Kolar. But I doubt any of them would take Opress for a majority. they all can take savage

PTforthewin
Tfu shaak ti would pwn savage due to her sexyness and fine ass

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by PTforthewin
they all can take savage

Together? Sure.

Individually? Well they have a shot, but would all lose a vast majority. Savage is just too strong and powerful for them, as he has shown against Plo Koon and Asajj Ventress.

Nephthys
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
I don't remeber Plo being distracted?

Savage never wins through pure Saber skills. He pounds on his foes with his strength, whether they be Lightsaber blows or Physical blows), and uses his tremendous Raw TK Power on them.

Didn't one of his clone troops get shot and he was all like 'oh snap!'

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by Nephthys
Didn't one of his clone troops get shot and he was all like 'oh snap!'

Will have to check.

Galan007
Shaak-Ti.

PTforthewin
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
^ Plus she spent years on Felucia to gain that kind of control over the environment there.

Also TFU.. Not canon now I believe. the forming of the rebellion is the only non-canon part of force unleashed

PTforthewin
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Together? Sure.

Individually? Well they have a shot, but would all lose a vast majority. Savage is just too strong and powerful for them, as he has shown against Plo Koon and Asajj Ventress. windu, yoda, obi wan, plo koon was distracted btw also Saesee Tinn, Kit Fisto, Agen Kolor could all take him 1 on 1

Lord Stark
Shaak Ti dominates this. She's been toted by canon to be one of the greatest swordmasters in the order.

Accolades:
"Do I need to demonstrate what responses you can expect from Shaak Ti or Obi-Wan Kenobi? From Mace Windu or, stars help you, Yoda?"

"Anakin, he was defended by Stass Allie and Shaak Ti. If two
Masters could not prevent this, do you think you could?"

"Master Ti had faced him before, Anakin. After Muunilinst. She
is not only subtle and experienced, but very capable indeed."

"He lacks entirely the flash, the pure bold elan of an Anakin Skywalker; there is nowhere in him the penumbral ferocity of a Mace Windu or a Depa Billaba nor the stylish grace of a Shaak Ti or a Dooku."

Not to mention

"You have defeated a tired old man and an outcast. You will not be ready to face the Emperor until you have faced a true Jedi Master."

The last quote is key because of Vader clearly saying that
"Kazdan Paratus is far more powerful than you..."
And was able to use the force to control an army of thousands of battledroids.

Also technically speaking didn't Shaak Ti defeat Marek on a nexus?

And which scan were you talking about Intrepid?

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by PTforthewin
windu, yoda,


Obviously. Those 2 are always the exceptional cases.

Originally posted by PTforthewin
obi wan,

Kenobi can, and has. But he's also been battered by Opress in other fights.


Originally posted by PTforthewin
plo koon was distracted btw

I don't remember that, but will recheck when I get a chance. Anyone got a scan? Because I've left that comic at my parents house.

Anyway if there was a distraction it was nothing major that stood out. Opress simply battered Koon.


Originally posted by PTforthewin
also Saesee Tinn, Kit Fisto, Agen Kolor could all take him 1 on 1


No, not at all. Opress has battered Ventress who can take any of those 3. He's given Dooku trouble which is beyond those 3. And Dave Filoni confirmed that Opress's performance against Sidious was better than all those 3 combined.

Lord Stark
http://www.idoc.co/read/2489/star-wars-the-clone-wars-the-sith-hunters/70

PTforthewin
Originally posted by Nephthys
Well that explains why you were so wrong. Did all the big words make it too hard for you to read, Intrepi-chan? Next time actually read the book before you try to throw info about it around.



For other reasons. I doubt anyone would say that they aren't more skilled than him. dude **** off most people on here are 13-17 so **** off old man

Nephthys
http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20140324041430/p__/protagonist/images/thumb/d/dd/Saitama_OK.jpg/185px-Saitama_OK.jpg

Intrepid37
Originally posted by Lord Stark
Shaak Ti dominates this. She's been toted by canon to be one of the greatest swordmasters in the order.
Are you aware that Plo has t he exact same quote to his name, but he was swiftly defeated by Savage?

Originally posted by Lord Stark
And which scan were you talking about Intrepid?
Mixed up Ti and Drallig, my bad.

Intrepid37
Originally posted by Nephthys
I know. Hence why I wrote that he wasn't able to successfully attack him, not that he couldn't attack him at all.

So anyway, you admit that Paratus was not beating him?
Very good.

Paratus was clearly the better fighter, bro.



Originally posted by Nephthys
Um, yeah. He was just blocking her attacks while he recovered physically and mentally.
It remains that he never returned a counter attack when he employed Soresu.


Originally posted by Nephthys
He distracted her with the Force, he didn't beat her with it. Also, if she was his equal then he wouldn't have been able to use the Force in such a flamboyant manner without her pressing him in lightsabers.
I have no idea what this even means. Re-write?


Originally posted by Nephthys
Which only means that. Not that he couldn't overwhelm her with a style she was familiar with. He did not need to switch to it, he just did so.
Nothing suggests that he would overwhelm her with a familiar style.


Originally posted by Nephthys
You mean where Galen pulls off a Soresu victory with him wearing Kota down and striking him when he gets sloppy? The exact thing someone using Soresu should be doing?
This would be appropriate if Marek's intention from the start was to wear down Kota, but it never was.



Originally posted by Nephthys
And I suppose she taught Maris Brood how to fight with sticks instead of lightsabers, did she? roll eyes (sarcastic)
I suppose you forgot Kenobi's fight with A'Sharad Hett. Despite that, he was still out of practice when he fought Vader.

Originally posted by Nephthys
ABC logic. Ventress didn't give pissed-off dark side RotS Anakin a hard fight. In fact, as I recall he beat the shit out of her the last time they fought in CW.
Anakin only easily beat her through Force power. Each of their fights have been close with Anakin having an edge.

Originally posted by Nephthys
And Plo isn't more skilled than her.
I didn't say so.


Originally posted by Nephthys
Plus Savage beat him by pulling his mask off when he was distracted, not in lightsaber combat.
Plo wasn't distracted, he was just beaten.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Also, Shaak Ti was giving Galen Marek a tough time in combat. Marek was able to deal with Vaders strength and in TFUII his clone would toss a TIE fighter with his bare hands. So I don't think Savages strength would do much good here.
Marek can toss TIE fighters? That sounds a little ridiculous.

PTforthewin
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Obviously. Those 2 are always the exceptional cases.



Kenobi can, and has. But he's also been battered by Opress in other fights.




I don't remember that, but will recheck when I get a chance. Anyone got a scan? Because I've left that comic at my parents house.

Anyway if there was a distraction it was nothing major that stood out. Opress simply battered Koon. Any council member can take savage and win





No, not at all. Opress has battered Ventress who can take any of those 3. He's given Dooku trouble which is beyond those 3. And Dave Filoni confirmed that Opress's performance against Sidious was better than all those 3 combined.

carthage
Originally posted by PTforthewin
they all can take savage

Not really. Fisto's best feats are beating droids, Tiin is featless as a swordsman, and Kolar didn't even really duel Vos he kicked him and ended tried to apprehend him. All of three of them fail pretty badly at being swordsman.

SIDIOUS 66
According to wookieepedia Fisto managed to fight off Dooku, has casually outdueled Grievous, who has consistently gave Obi Wan hell and has even got the best of Kenobi in "The deserter" (just watched that episode the other day).

Kolar and Vos exchanged blows before Kolar quickly ended the fight with a kick. It was just that easy for Kolar. Plus, as you said, he was merely trying to capture Vos.

Nephthys
Originally posted by Intrepid37
Very good.

Paratus was clearly the better fighter, bro.

Nah. Having faster mechanical legs doesn't prove anything. And as I pointed out, Marek was able to repeatedly strike him with lightning, despite being engaged in lightsaber combat and unable to put space between himself and Paratus. If Paratus was superior in the duel, I don't see how Galen could have had enough openings to attack him with the Force. Since it stands to reason that a superior duelist wouldn't give their opponent time to use Force attacks.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
It remains that he never returned a counter attack when he employed Soresu.

Right, because he was weakened and was dealing with personal issues while holding her off.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
I have no idea what this even means. Re-write?

He did not defeat her directly with the Force. He levitated some bones around them to distract her, then disarmed her. The fact remains that when Galen got serious, he ended the fight almost immediately.

And the fact is that he was able to use the Force in such a impractical way while still fighting her. If they were equals, then Galen shouldn't have been able to levitate objects around them without Maris taking advantage of him concentrating on that and getting the advantage in lightsaber combat.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Nothing suggests that he would overwhelm her with a familiar style.

Nothing suggests he wouldn't. Your point is that Galen 'needed' to switch to an unfamiliar style to defeat her. There's nothing to suggest that he needed to do that. He didn't need to distract her to disarm her, but he did anyway.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
This would be appropriate if Marek's intention from the start was to wear down Kota, but it never was.

I'm not sure how you think you know his intention. But the fact is that thats how Soresu works in a duel. Marek even imitates Kenobi's technique and wearing down his opponents was Obi-Wans main tactic. The fact is that Starkiller defeats Kota, so saying that they were equals is blatantly wrong.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
I suppose you forgot Kenobi's fight with A'Sharad Hett. Despite that, he was still out of practice when he fought Vader.

Oh a whole one fight that was likely less than a few minutes long? Big deal. It takes thousands of hours of lightsaber training to teach an apprentice. Shaak Ti certainly had lots of lightsaber practice with Maris.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Anakin only easily beat her through Force power. Each of their fights have been close with Anakin having an edge.

Nah, he still caught her hand and cracked it.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
I didn't say so.

So why does beating him put Savage over Shaak Ti?

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Plo wasn't distracted, he was just beaten.

He looked distracted in that image Stark posted.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Marek can toss TIE fighters? That sounds a little ridiculous.

Yeah it is.

Darth Abonis
No one cares

Darth Abonis
sORRY ABOUT MY EARLIER POST.

chilled monkey
Originally posted by Nephthys
Didn't one of his clone troops get shot and he was all like 'oh snap!'

Yes. It's still a pretty impressive feat for Savage to be able to recognize and exploit such a fleeting moment of opportunity.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Savage never wins through pure Saber skills. He pounds on his foes with his strength, whether they be Lightsaber blows or Physical blows), and uses his tremendous Raw TK Power on them.

True, but to be fair his dueling skills are still quite impressive. While he's not good enough to win on skill alone, he is able to fend off high-level duelists until he gets an opening to pound them into submission.

Even with immense strength, you can't block blows from elite duelists without having a good level of sabre skills yourself.

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
According to wookieepedia Fisto managed to fight off Dooku,


Whaaaaaaat???

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by Nephthys
Didn't one of his clone troops get shot and he was all like 'oh snap!'


Originally posted by Lord Stark
http://www.idoc.co/read/2489/star-wars-the-clone-wars-the-sith-hunters/70

Ah thanks.


Originally posted by chilled monkey
Yes. It's still a pretty impressive feat for Savage to be able to recognize and exploit such a fleeting moment of opportunity.




Looking at that, it seems Plo was already on his knees. He's a lot lower down than Opress. On top of that it's still a legitimate feat for Opress considering he's fighting off Plo whilst deflecting blaster fire.

Intrepid37
Originally posted by Nephthys
Nah. Having faster mechanical legs doesn't prove anything.
Outpacing your opponent and blocking all of their attacks sure as hell sounds as having an edge. erm

Originally posted by Nephthys
And as I pointed out, Marek was able to repeatedly strike him with lightning, despite being engaged in lightsaber combat and unable to put space between himself and Paratus. If Paratus was superior in the duel, I don't see how Galen could have had enough openings to attack him with the Force. Since it stands to reason that a superior duelist wouldn't give their opponent time to use Force attacks.

Marek repeatedly struck him with lightning because Paratus ''hopped around the dilapidated chamber like a deranged jumping spider''.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Right, because he was weakened and was dealing with personal issues while holding her off.
Yet still never managed a counter attack.

Originally posted by Nephthys
He did not defeat her directly with the Force. He levitated some bones around them to distract her, then disarmed her. The fact remains that when Galen got serious, he ended the fight almost immediately.
The fact remains that Galen never won through sheer skill as a duelist.

Originally posted by Nephthys
And the fact is that he was able to use the Force in such a impractical way while still fighting her. If they were equals, then Galen shouldn't have been able to levitate objects around them without Maris taking advantage of him concentrating on that and getting the advantage in lightsaber combat.
Maris didn't take advantage because she couldn't concentrate on attacking him properly out of fear.


Originally posted by Nephthys
Nothing suggests he wouldn't. Your point is that Galen 'needed' to switch to an unfamiliar style to defeat her. There's nothing to suggest that he needed to do that. He didn't need to distract her to disarm her, but he did anyway.
There's nothing to suggest that he could beat her through raw skill without the element of surprise, bro.


Originally posted by Nephthys
I'm not sure how you think you know his intention. But the fact is that thats how Soresu works in a duel. Marek even imitates Kenobi's technique and wearing down his opponents was Obi-Wans main tactic.
The tactic to outlast an opponent is used against someone you know is superior to yourself, to compensate. Obi-Wan used the tactic against Anakin, but never against Ventress, Grievous, Maul etc. By claiming Marek's intention was to replicate what Obi-Wan did against Anakin, you're basically admitting that Kota was the superior combatant.

Originally posted by Nephthys
The fact is that Starkiller defeats Kota, so saying that they were equals is blatantly wrong.
You don't get it, do you? Your idea was that because of Ti's performance against Marek, she would beat Savage, but Marek's lack of impressive skill feats are telling. It dosn't matter if he beat them; for you to rely on Ti's feat of pressuring Marek, you have to provide me with feats from Marek where victory is achieved through superior ability, not through outlasting, enjoying the advantage of surprise, etc.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Oh a whole one fight that was likely less than a few minutes long? Big deal. It takes thousands of hours of lightsaber training to teach an apprentice. Shaak Ti certainly had lots of lightsaber practice with Maris.
Prove that her training was anywhere near as extensive as made out here.



Originally posted by Nephthys
Nah, he still caught her hand and cracked it.
When?


Originally posted by Nephthys
So why does beating him put Savage over Shaak Ti?
Because Plo's skill feats and Force feats vastly outstrip Ti's own?


Originally posted by Nephthys
He looked distracted in that image Stark posted.
And Savage was deflecting blaster fire.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Yeah it is.
Quote/video?

Nalaniel
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Whaaaaaaat???

Once I read on Wookieepedia that Mace was able to defeat Dooku on Boz Pity. Fortunately, someone fixed that.

chilled monkey
Originally posted by Intrepid37
Yet still never managed a counter attack.

That's because only a suicidal idiot would try to counterattack while psychologically and physically impaired. Marek had just blown up a rancor's head from inside and was choking and gagging on its bodily fluids. Would you try to counterattack an opponent in his place?

Under such conditions the smart thing to do is focus on defending until you've recovered sufficiently. Which is exactly what Marek did.


Originally posted by Intrepid37
The fact remains that Galen never won through sheer skill as a duelist.

Perhaps not but his sword skills still contributed greatly to his victories. Even when he uses the Force for the finishing blow he did so when he already had the upper hand in blade to blade combat. This is what happened in his duels with Vader and Kota.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
YetThe tactic to outlast an opponent is used against someone you know is superior to yourself, to compensate. By claiming Marek's intention was to replicate what Obi-Wan did against Anakin, you're basically admitting that Kota was the superior combatant.

In this case Galen wasn't trying to outlast him, he simply focused on defense in order to get a sense of how skilled his opponent was. Once he had gotten his measure he started to fight back.

Plus Galen was clearly the better swordsman, seeing as he was landing blows and Kota wasn't.

Nephthys
Originally posted by Intrepid37
Outpacing your opponent and blocking all of their attacks sure as hell sounds as having an edge. erm

Paratus was outpacing him because of his mechanical legs. Which don't have anything to do with lightsaber skill or force ability, wouldn't you agree? erm

Blocking all of their attacks doesn't mean you have an edge, rofl.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Marek repeatedly struck him with lightning because Paratus ''hopped around the dilapidated chamber like a deranged jumping spider''.

You really think Paratus would just let Galen have free range to attack him with the Force? C'mon, use your brain.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Yet still never managed a counter attack.

As chilled said, Galen was in no position to attempt an attack

Originally posted by Intrepid37
The fact remains that Galen never won through sheer skill as a duelist.

Again, as chilled said.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Maris didn't take advantage because she couldn't concentrate on attacking him properly out of fear.

Right, because Marek was kicking her ass.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
There's nothing to suggest that he could beat her through raw skill without the element of surprise, bro.

And nothing to suggest he couldn't. Face it, your point is pointless. Galen didn't "need" to have that advantage, he just did. Unless you have actual proof that Galen could only beat her because of it or required it to gain the upper hand, I don't see why I should continue discussing this.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
The tactic to outlast an opponent is used against someone you know is superior to yourself, to compensate. Obi-Wan used the tactic against Anakin, but never against Ventress, Grievous, Maul etc. By claiming Marek's intention was to replicate what Obi-Wan did against Anakin, you're basically admitting that Kota was the superior combatant.

Once again, chilled has made an adequate response to this. Obi-Wan did use this tactic against those people, not to wear them out, but to defend until they leave openings and then counter-attack. As Galen did to Kota. Kota wasn't the superior combatant and only an utter fool like yourself would buy into that considering Marek BEAT HIM IN A LIGHTSABER DUEL. roll eyes (sarcastic)

Originally posted by Intrepid37
You don't get it, do you? Your idea was that because of Ti's performance against Marek, she would beat Savage, but Marek's lack of impressive skill feats are telling. It dosn't matter if he beat them; for you to rely on Ti's feat of pressuring Marek, you have to provide me with feats from Marek where victory is achieved through superior ability, not through outlasting, enjoying the advantage of surprise, etc.

Other than the fact that he possesses 'near perfect' lightsaber skills you mean. I don't need to prove shit, Marek is exceptionally skilled and fast and strong and Shaak Ti pressuring him greatly is better than anything Savage has done. You do not need to beat someone with your skills to be proven to be exceptionally skilled. All you need are showings to prove that you are exceptionally skilled. Though Marek did beat Darth Vader in a lightsaber fight.

This isn't even a question of skill. Of course Shaak Ti is more skilled than Savage Opress. Duh! Its about raw combat ability. Shaak Ti not only dealt with Galen in lightsabers but also in the Force. If Galen Marek couldn't overcome her with the Force then Opress won't be either.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Prove that her training was anywhere near as extensive as made out here.

Are you joking? Nah man, I'm sure she picked up how to use a lightsaber through osmosis, lmao. haermm

Its takes hundreds to thousands of hours to teach someone how to wield a lightsaber properly without them possessing skills already. Or them being a prodigy, which Brood obviously wasn't. Shaak Ti was a renowned lightsaber master, you seriously don't think she spent a good deal of time teaching her goddamn apprentice to wield a goddamn lightsaber? Jesus....

Originally posted by Intrepid37
When?

1dfnkLaYfh0

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Because Plo's skill feats and Force feats vastly outstrip Ti's own?

No they don't. haermm

Originally posted by Intrepid37
And Savage was deflecting blaster fire.

He wasn't even looking at the guy.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Quote/video?

LNquuiqoCUY&list=PLJni2mds45HtLvJy53DMmYZGxXAMtPRTa

4.00

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by Nephthys


He wasn't even looking at the guy.




That's... just... more impressive. Fighting a Jedi High Council member in front of him, whilst deflecting blaster fire from behind him.

And it would be a bit stupid of Plo Koon (who already seemed to be on his knees) to shout to the clone trooper to "look out" whilst he himself was not looking out in the midst of an intense Saber battle.

Plo Koon lost fair and square there.

Intrepid37
You write too much Nephthys.

Nephthys
I'm sure do.

Intrepid37
Originally posted by Nephthys
I'm sure do.
Your grammar also sucks.

Nephthys
lol

Zett
Opress wins

Lord Stark
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
That's... just... more impressive. Fighting a Jedi High Council member in front of him, whilst deflecting blaster fire from behind him.

And it would be a bit stupid of Plo Koon (who already seemed to be on his knees) to shout to the clone trooper to "look out" whilst he himself was not looking out in the midst of an intense Saber battle.

Plo Koon lost fair and square there.

Plo Koon did get distracted though. The Troopers were more of a liability than a help for him.

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