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Battle of the Dark lords.

Force, sabers, all out

Team 1 rolls.

Team 2.

Team 2 in a good fight.

What version of Bane?

DOE

Popular version these last few days.

I'm going with Team 1.

Exar exceeds Bane in just about every category, decimating an entire temple and disintegrating force sensitive Massassi, whereas Bane labored intensively to disintegrate non force sensitives. Bane was admittedly slower at the beginning of DOE due to orbalisks. Krayt might be a bit more of a challenge, as he is one of the faster combatants here but I think Malgus could handle him long enough for Exar to come in and double team him.

Bane is the weak link IMO.

Team one takes it 7/10

Team 1, IMO

Originally posted by carthage
I'm going with Team 1.

Exar exceeds Bane in just about every category, decimating an entire temple and disintegrating force sensitive Massassi, whereas Bane labored intensively to disintegrate non force sensitives.

Lolwut? No he didn't? Bane can disintegrate people with bursts of lightning or with TK just fine.

Originally posted by carthage
Bane was admittedly slower at the beginning of DOE due to orbalisks.

But still faster than Kun. Bane is a deadlier lightsaber duelist than Kun is.

Originally posted by carthage
Krayt might be a bit more of a challenge, as he is one of the faster combatants here but I think Malgus could handle him long enough for Exar to come in and double team him.

I think Malgus could do that, even though I'd say Krayt is better than him. Too bad Kun won't be coming to help him.

Originally posted by carthage
Bane is the weak link IMO.

Pfft, hell no.

Nah, Exar's one of the few guys who has Bane beat in sabers.

Why?

Comparable force power, superior technique. Damn close though. They're both so impressive in that regard. Prodigies with both the Force and a lightsaber.

Eh, his techniques not that much superior. Bane has demonstrated himself to be one of the fastest fighters around, which Kun has not.

Yes but Kun's implied speed will also be great given his combat prowess and general Force ability.

I wouldn't suggest Bane could blitz him, but he's got speed feats that Kun does not. Which suggests he would have a tough time keeping up with Bane.

Exar Kun has produced afterimages in his fight with Vodo, his speed should be comparable enough to Bane's.

And Bane appeared to wield a dozen lightsabers to Zannah. Who remarks in DoE that Bane is faster than she could possibly have imagined. His speed isn't comparable to Banes.

Team 2 imo.

"Krayt and Malgus take long enough to fight that the decider is front the other fight" is the way I see it going too.... and on that one, I lean Bane.

Exar is lacking in neither power nor skill, but he was in that 'my power will allow me to beat any foe,' phase that many Sith go through (he literally simply beat Vodo down through raw power, after all), and I believe the more experienced Bane will be able to take advantage of that.


It also doesn't hurt that Bane should be at least somewhat familiar with Exar from history books and his studies.

Not to mention that Bane now canonically has samurai armor, which bolsters his standings indefinitely. :V

The keyword was force sensitive, which the Massassi would qualify as being Sith. Bane disintegrated Technobeasts on a nexus, he disintegrated non force sensitives on a nexus (it exhausted him), and his lightning can likely be absorbed by a saber. None of those feats exceed Kun's annihilation of Sadow's temple.

Bane was struggling against Kas'sim, was beaten by a student, whereas, Kun as a student defeated his master repeatedly, was regarded as his master's best student, and defeated his fellow students at once. Kun is a superior duelist, not sure as to why Bane would be faster. His speed feats really aren't terribly different from Kun's.




The only thing that is sad is how he's slower than both combatants, isn't a terribly good duelist, and how he's the slowest man in the fight.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I wouldn't suggest Bane could blitz him, but he's got speed feats that Kun does not. Which suggests he would have a tough time keeping up with Bane.

Bane is imo the most physically able duelist in canon. He's unbelievably strong, and has the best case out of anyone for being the fastest guy there is. Exar Kun meanwhile can't really be argued to be on that level, but given how powerful he was it's implied that he would have also been incredibly fast and strong.

When it comes to technique on the other hand, Exar Kun has the clear advantage. Very few people would be capable of inventing a style of combat that was superior to the standardized 7 forms of the lightsaber, and yet that's exactly what Exar Kun is stated to have done (and the style was said to have died with him). He possessed the technical brilliance to be able to invent his own form, has the advantage of using a form that is technically superior to any of the 7 forms, and has the added advantage of using a form that would be completely alien to anybody he would ever face. Just look at the advantage that Bane's unfamiliarity with Kas'im's Jar'Kai gave Kas'im. Exar Kun possesses that very same advantage, the form itself and Exar's technical ability is superior to Bane's, and it would make sense that he is comparably as fast and strong as Bane is, though obviously we have to give the edge to Bane in that regard.

Not that Bane's a slouch when it comes to technique however, the rate at which he progressed was absolutely alarming and perhaps the best we've ever seen.

IMO Exar Kun, DoE Bane, Ulic, Kas'im and perhaps Nomi and a couple of others are all probably on the same level when it comes to lightsaber ability. However Exar Kun with the advantage of having a form that would be alien to anybody imo stands out as being the single greatest of them all.

So imo Exar Kun wins the saber battle. Orbalisk Bane of course would be a different story altogether, but without them I'd give Exar the edge.

His first victory against Vodo was his last fight as a student (the second fight was after Exar had gone off on his own), and one of the other students cut his face with her claws.

Though I agree Kun should be pretty past.

Originally posted by carthage
The keyword was force sensitive, which the Massassi would qualify as being Sith. Bane disintegrated Technobeasts on a nexus, he disintegrated non force sensitives on a nexus (it exhausted him), and his lightning can likely be absorbed by a saber. None of those feats exceed Kun's annihilation of Sadow's temple.

I don't see how being force sensitive matters at all. Its not as if it makes you naturally resistant to force attacks. Bane disintegrating technobeasts on a 'nexus' is irrelevant because he disintegrated 12 of them. He can disintegrate a lesser number off of it. Banes lightning can't be absorbed so easily. Malgus' lightning wasn't able to be lightsaber-absorbed by a Jedi who was powerful enough to collapse two buildings and Banes lightning is more devastating than Malgus' is.

When did Bane get exhausted by disintegrating non-force sensitives on a nexus?

Originally posted by carthage
Bane was struggling against Kas'sim, was beaten by a student, whereas, Kun as a student defeated his master repeatedly, was regarded as his master's best student, and defeated his fellow students at once. Kun is a superior duelist, not sure as to why Bane would be faster. His speed feats really aren't terribly different from Kun's.

Bane was only struggling because Kas'im specifically trained him to have a weakness.

Bane is faster because he's demonstrated himself to be faster than Exar Kun has. His speed feats are vastly superior to Kuns. Kun has, what, created a few afterimages? Oh wow, I guess he must be as fast as Plo Koon then. Jesus, I think he might just be a badass.

The only reason I'm not suggesting Bane could blitz him is that Kun should be fast based on his power. Not that he's shown it.

Originally posted by carthage
The only thing that is sad is how he's slower than both combatants, isn't a terribly good duelist, and how he's the slowest man in the fight.

Isn't a very good duelist? Malgus defeated the Jedi Battlemaster as a padawan. 40 years before his prime. He was mowing down Jedi left and right in the Sack of Coruscant. I don't think Malgus has ever lost a lightsaber fight we've seen him in. Hell, this is the guy who put up a great fight against one of the TOR Strike Teams. Which are made up of either the Hero of Tython, Barsen'thor, Voidhound and the Havoc Squad Commander or Darth Nox, the Emperor's 2nd Wrath, Cipher 9 and the Grand Champ. Malgus is amazing.

Also Malgus has better speed feats than Exar Kun.

No, he doesn't.

When did Bane get exhausted by disintegrating non-force sensitives on a nexus?

He stated was exhausted after using his death shield move when the Andeddu priests attack him. Being a force sensitive matters as they'd have an opportunity to protect themselves with a force shield, which unfortunately in the examples of Bane atomizing non force sensitives makes it less impressive. Possibly nitpicking, but but that's just my two cents, sir. Lightning as well should never come into play, as Kun can simply absorb it with his saber.

Bane was only struggling because Kas'im specifically trained him to have a weakness.



I never made the claim Kun was faster than Bane, Kun is marginally but that's because again Bane admitted he was marginally slower due to the orbalisk damage. Also all of his speed showings are when he's:

A. Amped and feeling the effects of a nexus
B. Amped by his orbalisk armor
C. In the case of his rain feet, admittedly slower.

DOE Bane was slower by virtue of his own words.




I never said Malgus was a bad duelist, I said Bane was a mediocre one. Malgus has great dueling feats, and no his speed isn't terribly different than Kun's either. The only one who might have a speed advantage is Krayt. None of the other fighters have ever been depicted overwhelming the senses of another capable force user, Bane's only possible comparison was when he was amped (which is not the case in this duel).

It's reasonable to claim that the energy wihtin the Massassi temples amplified the power unleashed by the gauntlets. After all, he only rendered Aleema unconscious despite seeking to kill her.

Originally posted by carthage
He stated was exhausted after using his death shield move when the Andeddu priests attack him. Being a force sensitive matters as they'd have an opportunity to protect themselves with a force shield, which unfortunately in the examples of Bane atomizing non force sensitives makes it less impressive. Possibly nitpicking, but but that's just my two cents, sir. Lightning as well should never come into play, as Kun can simply absorb it with his saber.

Bane didn't disintegrate those people nor was he trying to. He was using an extremely powerful Death Field ability to drain the shit out of them. Also I thought they were force sensitive cultists.

Massassi are just a force sensitive species, but that doesn't mean they can actually use the Force to defend themselves. They weren't trying to block Kun's blasts nor could they try to. The feat is no more impressive than Bane disintegrating opponents. Bane can turn people to ash with his lightning and can disintegrate people with TK just as easily as Kun can blast people.

Originally posted by carthage
I never made the claim Kun was faster than Bane, Kun is marginally but that's because again Bane admitted he was marginally slower due to the orbalisk damage. Also all of his speed showings are when he's:

A. Amped and feeling the effects of a nexus
B. Amped by his orbalisk armor
C. In the case of his rain feet, admittedly slower.

DOE Bane was slower by virtue of his own words.

DoE Bane is slower than he used to be. That does not mean that he was slower than he was in RoT. Zannah says that DoE Bane is faster than she imagined, and she fought a berserk RoT Bane who was trying to kill her.

Just because he's slower than he used to be doesn't mean he's slower than Kun.

Originally posted by carthage
I never said Malgus was a bad duelist, I said Bane was a mediocre one. Malgus has great dueling feats, and no his speed isn't terribly different than Kun's either. The only one who might have a speed advantage is Krayt. None of the other fighters have ever been depicted overwhelming the senses of another capable force user, Bane's only possible comparison was when he was amped (which is not the case in this duel).

And why do you think Bane was a mediocre duelist? He's extremely fast and strong and was very well trained by Kas'im. Bane is one of the most lethal duelists around.

Its not as if Kun's speed is that much better than Banes, neither of them are renowned for Palpatine like speed anyway. Its the slightest of the slight of advantages, and to be honest probably wouldn't affect the outcome of the duel. At least not in respect to the massive skill deficit between the two.



Beaten by Sirrak, his duel with Kas'sim was a mixed bag, and he got beaten by a weaker opponent (Zannah)in a PIS duel. His best duel he was massively amped and had armor, and he beat Raskta and others based off of his invulnerability and not his skill. Raskta actually would've killed him before he even reached her, had it not been for the orbalisks. IIRC

So Bane's peak speed, we're looking at somewhere between RoT and DoE?

Its hard to gauge. I'd say POD though, in ROT he was amped by orbalisks.

I wonder how and or if they plan on retooling Bane's story for the horrendous TCW season 6 retcons.

Originally posted by carthage
Its not as if Kun's speed is that much better than Banes, neither of them are renowned for Palpatine like speed anyway. Its the slightest of the slight of advantages, and to be honest probably wouldn't affect the outcome of the duel. At least not in respect to the massive skill deficit between the two.

What makes you think Kun is faster than Bane?

Originally posted by carthage
Beaten by Sirrak,

As an apprentice. Come on. I'm sure everyone loses in the first months of their training. Bane surpassed Sirak entirely in both skill and power. This isn't representative of his later ability.

Originally posted by carthage
his duel with Kas'sim was a mixed bag,

Kas'im was the best duelist of his era, with utter mastery of all lightsaber forms and decades of refinement in his mastery. Plus this was way before Banes prime.

Originally posted by carthage
and he got beaten by a weaker opponent (Zannah)in a PIS duel.

He was clearly better than he in lightsaber combat though.

Originally posted by carthage
His best duel he was massively amped and had armor, and he beat Raskta and others based off of his invulnerability and not his skill. Raskta actually would've killed him before he even reached her, had it not been for the orbalisks. IIRC

Bane wouldn't have left himself so open if he didn't have the orbalisks. He was more that capable of dodging or blocking all her attacks at his head. Plus he was being weakened by the Battle Meditation and she was being amped by it.

The fact Bane admitted he was slower, Bane had suffered a combination of darkside degradation, and orbalisk wear, and because most if not all of Bane's speed related feats are imparted due to the orbalisks. Take them away and he moves just as fast as any other force user.



Not disputing that. I just said the duel never was really conclusive to me, Kas'sim is ok in my book. Bane would've lost were it not for plot armor and his superior force abilities and the fact he had a nexus handy.




Valid point sir, but not really something that is provable. Raskta proved to be as good if not a superior duelist, as she had tanked a kick to her ribs, was fighting virtually solo, and even while amped by Battle med still was fighting an opponent who was virtually unkillable. Raskta's performance ironically impressed me more than Bane's

Originally posted by carthage
The fact Bane admitted he was slower, Bane had suffered a combination of darkside degradation, and orbalisk wear, and because most if not all of Bane's speed related feats are imparted due to the orbalisks. Take them away and he moves just as fast as any other force user.

Slower than what? Bane being slower than he used to be doesn't mean he was slower than Kun.

Also, no his speed feats are NOT imparted by the orbalisks. Never in the entire book does it actually say that they boosted his speed. We've just logically concluded that they do since they give him a boost of darkside energy and adrenaline.

And L.M.A.O. at Bane being just as fast and any other force user. No, no he's not.

Originally posted by carthage
Not disputing that. I just said the duel never was really conclusive to me, Kas'sim is ok in my book. Bane would've lost were it not for plot armor and his superior force abilities and the fact he had a nexus handy.

And Bane was only losing because Kas'im didn't train Bane how to fight against dual lightsabers. In an actual fight with no advantages to either side Bane was beating Kas'im.

Originally posted by carthage
Valid point sir, but not really something that is provable. Raskta proved to be as good if not a superior duelist, as she had tanked a kick to her ribs, was fighting virtually solo, and even while amped by Battle med still was fighting an opponent who was virtually unkillable. Raskta's performance ironically impressed me more than Bane's

Er, yeah there is:

"She seemed to be everywhere at once-in front of Bane, beside him, behind him, circling low, leaping to come in high, deflecting his blade with one of her own then stabbing three quick times in succession at his eyes. The big man's head ducked and bobbed, twisting and turning to avoid her blows as he tried to mount a counteroffensive."

Raskta was good, but only competing with Bane because of the BM. Without it Bane was swiftly pushing her, Johun and Farfalla back.