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The jedi are aware of them the sith warriors are from the sacking of coruscant (swtor decieved trailer)who would win?

The Clone Wars Jedi Council. How much they win depends on whether it's the early war or late war council (which affects how many are used to large battles, and where Anakin is present), but they win.

The odds here are a 'mere' 3 to 1, and while the sith were likely all above-average, only a few were major badasses, and almost all of the Jedi council is. Darth Malgus, Adraas, and Praven were present to take on strong foes... but they cannot take on this many strong foes.

Originally posted by Q99
The Clone Wars Jedi Council. How much they win depends on whether it's the early war or late war council (which affects how many are used to large battles, and where Anakin is present), but they win.

The odds here are a 'mere' 3 to 1, and while the sith were likely all above-average, only a few were major badasses, and almost all of the Jedi council is. Darth Malgus, Adraas, and Praven were present to take on strong foes... but they cannot take on this many strong foes. malgus and adraas and Pravin aren't in this just the random sith seen in the trailer

Originally posted by Q99
The Clone Wars Jedi Council. How much they win depends on whether it's the early war or late war council (which affects how many are used to large battles, and where Anakin is present), but they win.

The odds here are a 'mere' 3 to 1, and while the sith were likely all above-average, only a few were major badasses, and almost all of the Jedi council is. Darth Malgus, Adraas, and Praven were present to take on strong foes... but they cannot take on this many strong foes. also the council is middle war which is like 21 BBY TO 20 BBY

Originally posted by PTforthewin
malgus and adraas and Pravin aren't in this just the random sith seen in the trailer


Oh, then even more-so, random Sith Warriors will die to Jedi Council members without better numbers than this.

Ven Zallow was cutting through Sith easily, I'm pretty sure the Council will be fine.

Jedi council might have this but sustain MASSIVE casualties with possibly only Yoda, Windu, and whichever one doesn't get wtfpwned by Malgus, Adras, and the Sith. Its actually kind of interesting to think about who would live. Good thread.

Yoda and Mace solo.

I think people are underestimating the numbers advantage of of the Sith, not to mention that they've been training for JvS combat. I don't think many council members would be able to take on two sith warriors at once and they're almost outnumbered 3 to 1 here.

If the Jedi win, Yoda might be the sole survivor.

Could somebody post who the Jedi Council members were at the time TS was saying?

Originally posted by carthage
Jedi council might have this but sustain MASSIVE casualties with possibly only Yoda, Windu, and whichever one doesn't get wtfpwned by Malgus, Adras, and the Sith. Its actually kind of interesting to think about who would live. Good thread. I said malgus and adraas aren't here NO leaders are here just random sith

Originally posted by Astor Ebligis
I think people are underestimating the numbers advantage of of the Sith, not to mention that they've been training for JvS combat. I don't think many council members would be able to take on two sith warriors at once and they're almost outnumbered 3 to 1 here.

If the Jedi win, Yoda might be the sole survivor.

Could somebody post who the Jedi Council members were at the time TS was saying?

No I think people are estimating the power of the PT Jedi Council. They are not even outnumber 3 to 1. Sidious was able to down 3 of the greatest Jedi blademasters in history in seconds. Yoda would slice and dice these Sith similarly/ with more ease. He solos.

In that case the Jedi probably slaughter with a few dying.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
No I think people are estimating the power of the PT Jedi Council.

Please.



"not even"



Sidious =/= Yoda. Even if Yoda's on par or superior to Sidious in saber ability, or speed (both likely). Sidious may simply have certain characteristics that Yoda's lacking in by comparison, that enabled him to lunge forwards and strike so quickly against all three masters.

The point being, you cannot attribute Sidious's feats to Yoda, no matter that they come across as near equals.

Originally posted by Astor Ebligis
I think people are underestimating the numbers advantage of of the Sith, not to mention that they've been training for JvS combat. I don't think many council members would be able to take on two sith warriors at once and they're almost outnumbered 3 to 1 here.

Zallow took down 3 without much sweat.

Were it not for Malgus, he'd probably take down a dozen before being swarmed.




Yoda
Mace Windu
Plo Koon
Shaak Ti
Ki-adi-Mundi
Saesee Tiin
Adi Gallia
Eeth Koth
Oppo Rancisis
Depa Billaba
Even Piell
Coleman Trebor



Oppo, btw, is one of the only CW Jedi to know battle meditation.

Coleman is the only one of those I do not see as being able to kill at least 3 sith warriors.

Jedi Council easily. The Sith Warriors were rather lackluster.

I'm of the opinion that there probably isn't the greatest difference between the average Sith warrior from that strike team, and the average CW Jedi Council Member.

Consider the importance of the sacking of coruscant and the fact that only the most powerful warriors would have been chosen for the task. Then consider that the Jedi don't base who they put on the council simply on combat prowess, but on a host of factors that largely revolve around their judgement.

I think I would be being very generous to the Jedi in saying that you could have 2 Sith warriors per each Council member (exclusing Yoda and Mace, so that's 20 Sith warriors for 10 council members), and that the Sith would emerge victorious in that scenario, while losing mayba half their numbers, so 10 casualties. That effectively means that Yoda and Mace Windu are faced with 20 Sith warriors, not all at once however, but the added 10 would join up the remaining members of the original ten that would have been assigned to Yoda and Mace Windu.

The numbers are simply too much. Sith win.

Originally posted by Q99


Zallow took down 3 without much sweat.

Were it not for Malgus, he'd probably take down a dozen before being swarmed.




Yoda
Mace Windu
Plo Koon
Shaak Ti
Ki-adi-Mundi
Saesee Tiin
Adi Gallia
Eeth Koth
Oppo Rancisis
Depa Billaba
Even Piell
Coleman Trebor



Oppo, btw, is one of the only CW Jedi to know battle meditation.

Coleman is the only one of those I do not see as being able to kill at least 3 sith warriors. coleman should be able to take 2 at most

Originally posted by Q99


Zallow took down 3 without much sweat.

Were it not for Malgus, he'd probably take down a dozen before being swarmed.




Yoda
Mace Windu
Plo Koon
Shaak Ti
Ki-adi-Mundi
Saesee Tiin
Adi Gallia
Eeth Koth
Oppo Rancisis
Depa Billaba
Even Piell
Coleman Trebor
C


Oppo, btw, is one of the only CW Jedi to know battle meditation.

Coleman is the only one of those I do not see as being able to kill at least 3 sith warriors. don't forget coleman kcaj

Originally posted by Astor Ebligis
I'm of the opinion that there probably isn't the greatest difference between the average Sith warrior from that strike team, and the average CW Jedi Council Member.

You would be wrong. Saesee, Kit, Kolar, Shaak Ti, Ki-Adi, Depa, ect. Are all far above average Jedi level. Kolar casually stomped Quinlan Vos who himself is far above the average Jedi.



Too bad most of the Jedi Council is composed of the most skilled blademasters in the order as per the Clone Wars visual guide.



I consider plenty of the Council to be on par with/ superior to Ven Zallow. The same Ven Zallow who sliced through 3 Sith Warriors with casual ease. Yoda would dice through 5 of these Sith Warriors in less time than it took Sidious to dice through Kit, Saesee, and Agen.



Yoda solos.

There was a great difference in power between the Sith warriors and the lords that accompanied them, though, so while we're talking 'strong-for-warriors,' they were not masters.


The average Jedi Council member was quite a powerful fighter.

10 years before the CW, or better yet, 20, the Jedi council was weaker (I do find it interesting that it seemed to grow in might in anticipation of the conflict, with Jedi like Plo Koon, Shaak Ti, and Ki-Adi replacing less combat focused members), but it always had a solid proportion of warriors.

As of the start of the CW, the weakest/least combat focused were probably Oppo Rancisis (still very respectable in combat, and a battle mediator and war leader), Even Piell (jack-of-all-trades type), and finally Coleman Trebor the diplomat, and the only true non-combatant type.





No Kolar yet, this is still Eeth Koth's term (ever think that the council tends to like to replace fallen Jedi with those of the same species? One Zabrak got replaced with another), but on the basic point I agree.

Guys, watch the video again. It's three droids/troopers that Ven Zallow easily overwhelms, not Sith warriors.

He pwns Sith in the Decieved novel, which describes the battle from Malgus' perspective.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
You would be wrong. Saesee, Kit, Kolar, Shaak Ti, Ki-Adi, Depa, ect. Are all far above average Jedi level. Kolar casually stomped Quinlan Vos who himself is far above the average Jedi.

I never claimed they weren't far above average Jedi level, and I would submit that the same is the case with the Sith warriors.



But are they really or is this your dubious interpretation speaking?



And you've supported this with a tonne of evidence.



Nuh huh. Watch the video, there isn't really anything in it that would suggest the Sith Warriors were comparatively weak at all.

The council would annihilate.

Zallows performance against Malgus in my estimation is worth more than most of the Jedi councils dueling feats barring the obvious mentions of Mace, Yoda, and a few others. Tiin is featless, Kolar didn't really duel Vos, and Fisto beat droids.

He is easily council level material.

Originally posted by Q99
There was a great difference in power between the Sith warriors and the lords that accompanied them, though, so while we're talking 'strong-for-warriors,' they were not masters.

I wouldn't say that at all. Would you say kit etc weren't master level simply because they got pwned by Sidious so badly?

And I don't know if that's true; from the video, the only Sith that seemed to stand out was Malgus, who I'd imagine is at least on Mace Windu's level based on how people talk about him.



So would the average Sith warrior on such an important mission.

Even Oppo Rancisis was able to fight off several Anzati assassins and could presumably duel Sora Bulq without getting shitstomped.

For the record it would naturally make sense that often the Jedi that would be council material would be older and wiser and experienced etc., and the more experienced Jedi would often be the more well learned and trained etc. Jedi, and I didn't say that combat prowess or power in the Force wasn't a factor at all in bringing somebody onto the council, but simply that they don't perfectly correlate. yes you ended up with some good warriors on the council, but there are also a number of Jedi who were truly among the most powerful or skilled Jedi that never made the council (Sora Bulq, Qui-Gon Jinn, Anoon Bondara, Cin Drallig, probably a lot of senior lightsaber instructors), and many of their members are basically featless (e.g. Even Piel) or have been shown to underperform (e.g. Coleman Trebor) and a alrge number of them were fodder to top tier characters, and I'm not simply talking about Sidious but even Grievous make short work of people like Shaak Ti, Mundi, Adi Galia etc and usually while outnumbered. So even if the warriors were fodder to ven Zallow, it's possible that he was just that damn good, just as Shaak Ti and Mundi and Adi Galia were fodder to Grievous. Kit Fisto was even gettting defeated by neophyte darksiders like Ventress. Kit Fisto and Plo Koon were collectively getting their asses kicked by Durge in a comic, and his regeneration didn't even come into play.

Originally posted by carthage
Zallows performance against Malgus in my estimation is worth more than most of the Jedi councils dueling feats barring the obvious mentions of Mace, Yoda, and a few others. Tiin is featless, Kolar didn't really duel Vos, and Fisto beat droids.

He is easily council level material.

Agreed. Aside from Yoda, Mace Windu, and Depa, he's proven far more in the way of duelling than the others have.

Yoda - 7
Mace Windu - 4
Plo Koon - 1.5
Shaak Ti - 1.5
Ki-adi-Mundi - 1.5
Saesee Tiin - 1.5
Adi Gallia - 0.8
Eeth Koth - 0.8
Oppo Rancisis - 1
Depa Billaba - 2.5
Even Piell - 0.8
Coleman Trebor - 0.8

= ~24

I know it's not this simply but this is just a rough exercise I performed. The number represents what I think each Jedi is worth in terms of Sith warriors. I feel I was being pretty generous.

Originally posted by Astor Ebligis
I never claimed they weren't far above average Jedi level, and I would submit that the same is the case with the Sith warriors.

And why is that? Their only feat is getting picked for the mission. Its not like these guys were on the Dark Council or anything.




No the Clone Wars Encyclopedia states
"'The Jedi Council is made up of some of the most skilled duelists in the Order''

Also
Shaak Ti is stated to be more than capable of stomping Grievous, as well as has her Makashi compared to Dooku's. Not to mention nearly killing Starkiller in raw sabers.

Saesee Tiin, Agen Kolar, and Kit Fisto are all quoted in the ROTS novel as being amongst the greatest duelists in the Orders 25,000 year history. Not to mention Kolar and Fisto's domination of Vos and Grievous respectively.

Plo Koon fights off Ventress with a broken arm. The same Ventress who babyshook Fisto, and would likely pwn Tiin, Kolar, or Fisto.

Kenobi is the greatest practitioner of Soresu perhaps in the history of the Jedi Order.

Yoda is the most powerful Jedi in the Old Jedi Order's 25,000 year history and has dueled on par with Darth Sidious. Mace has also dueled on par with Darth Sidious.

Depa Billaba is so skilled with a blade that Mace himself admits inferiority.

Ki-Adi Mundi forces Ventress into retreat and duels on par with Grievous for hours.

Adi Gallia did really well against Savage and Grievous.

Only Coleman Kjac, and Eeth Koth are shitty duelists.





In other threads time and time again.




I'm not saying they are weak. I am saying that the Jedi Council is way better.

Originally posted by Astor Ebligis


Guys, watch the video again. It's three droids/troopers that Ven Zallow easily overwhelms, not Sith warriors.

He takes down multiple people wielding lightsabers, as well as troopers.

Though, granted, on re-watch it's only two.



Kit has other showings indicating a higher level. These don't.


The Sith warriors fall to Zallow about as easily as the Jedi warriors- *not* a hand picked team- fall to Malgus. Additionally, the sith warriors are not shown taking down Jedi left and right like Malgus was.

The commanders were well above the warriors.


Additional, consider. If they were only willing to take along their very strongest, why bring troopers with blasters and droids at all?

While the warriors were selected for a tough mission, it was not a "only the very very best can join" situation.




I do think Zallow is stronger than most members of this council... but, conversely, he was one warrior, and these are 12

Well, my main issue with PT Jed is the fact that their accolades very rarely ever correspond to what they achieve. As the term "best of the Jedi" has been stretched from relatively weak swordsmen like Tii and Jinn, to folks like Ti and Koon who have better feats but are overall dwarfed by their Sith contemporaries of various eras. Folks like Silver and Shootingnova, routinely try to hide behind sporadic instances of their fights and the accolade as if it makes up for their lack of showings.

If they had existed truly as the best swordmasters of their era, then why do they routinely labor to kill simple droids? Fisto struggled terribly against Asajj, Vos and Bulq easily fell to the darkside, its as if Lucas doesn't really pay attention to what he says when he gives these near featless characters their accolades. Based off of how little they have, I'd reason that there is very little reason to believe characters like Tiin, Kolar, Drallig, Gallia, etc are better than Zallow, Malgus, or other characters. There simply is too little they have going on for them to make an adequate comparison

Also the Clone Wars TV Show Council is
1. Yoda- Can solo
2. Mace- If Vaapad works he solos 24+ blades per second feat.
3. Obi-Wan Kenobi- Can fight at least 4.
4. Oppo Rancisis- 2
5. Coleman Kjac- 1 tops
6. Shaak Ti- 2
7. Saesee Tiin- 1
8. Eeth Koth- 1
9. Adi Gallia- 1
10. Even Piell- 1
11. Ki-Adi Mundi- 2
12. Plo Koon- 3

Originally posted by Q99
He takes down multiple people wielding lightsabers, as well as troopers.

Though, granted, on re-watch it's only two.

When? I don't see him take down a single Force User.




Doesn't change anything. It's still to say that showing a great disparity to someone truly extraordinary doesn't make you below master level.



Why do you keep on referring to Malgus as merely a commander or captain? He was clearly incredibly powerful and beyond the level of such a simple taskmaster. And yes, I didn't argue that they were on the level of Malgus, just like I wouldn't argue that Ki-Adi was on the level of Mace Windu.



Tactical advantage?



I don't see why it wouldn't be. Not that they'd have to be the absolute best, but as a general tier they'd have to be right up there at the very top, below only those rare individuals like Malgus or baras or Angral or someone. And given that they numbered in the millions, that's pretty damn impressive.

Originally posted by Lord Stark

4. Oppo Rancisis- 2
5. Coleman Kjac- 1 tops
6. Shaak Ti- 2
7. Saesee Tiin- 1
8. Eeth Koth- 1
9. Adi Gallia- 1
10. Even Piell- 1
11. Ki-Adi Mundi- 2
12. Plo Koon- 3


I'd up most of these by at least 1, often 2.

Adi Gallia was able to give a good fight to Savage (though dying in the end, it wasn't easy, and happened because his insane toughness allowed him to ignore her physical attacks). Shaak Ti has... good showings against large quantities of melee foes ^^ Ki-Adi has shown him reasonably formidable against Ventress and similar.



And heck, even Kjac is better than Trebor (he *survived* Geonosis), though we do know almost nothing else about him.

Originally posted by Q99
I'd up most of these by at least 1, often 2.

Adi Gallia was able to give a good fight to Savage (though dying in the end, it wasn't easy, and happened because his insane toughness allowed him to ignore her physical attacks). Shaak Ti has... good showings against large quantities of melee foes ^^ Ki-Adi has shown him reasonably formidable against Ventress and similar.



And heck, even Kjac is better than Trebor (he *survived* Geonosis), though we do know almost nothing else about him.

Truth. I was being very generous.

Plus, Oppo's battle meditation can probably give everyone +0.5.

Originally posted by Q99
Plus, Oppo's battle meditation can probably give everyone +0.5.

lol. As outnumbered the Jedi are you think Oppo would be able to BM everyone without getting immediately struck down?

Ti would do incredible, her acrobatics and her endurance would afford her tons of Sith kills.

Plo would do well i'd imagine too.

Originally posted by Astor Ebligis
lol. As outnumbered the Jedi are you think Oppo would be able to BM everyone without getting immediately struck down?

Yes, easily. Many of those Jedi in the actual battle lasted for some time, even though most of them were simple Knights below Oppo or even most of the lesser council members.

One, aside from being a solid fighter himself (who has 4 arms and is known to saber-fight and force-fight at the same time), he'll be guard by literally 11 masters. If even a couple of the weaker ones stay back (Say, Even, Kcaj, and Adi purely to guard), attacking Oppo will be very difficult.

Most of the council are quite capable of facing more than one significant enemy at a time, but furthermore, fighting side-by-side means the effect of numerical superiority will be reduced, and one or two foes at a time is significantly easier (and will thus up the kill-counts) than charging into the group as Zallow did (though that is more disruptive of the enemy attack, and I fully expect Windu and a couple of the other strong ones to do the same thing).

Yoda and Mace solo.
(Yoda might be able to pull it off alone)

Originally posted by Q99
Yes, easily. Many of those Jedi in the actual battle lasted for some time, even though most of them were simple Knights below Oppo or even most of the lesser council members.

The difference is that Oppo would become a target if he was BMing everyone, not just some random noob.



I'm not so sure he can effectively apply BM and fight at the same time.



11 masters guarding against 30 warriors.



Not at all. You don't easily choose to fight multiple opposition, multiple opposition choose to fight you. You can't simply distract one enemy and force another to also be distracted; you guard against one enemy, and the other has no obligation to stay and is free to go and strike the tactical objective. You would have to literally be so good that you can force your opponent in the exact direction of the other opponent, as forcefully as the other is capable of heading in that certain direction. This is not a viable tactic.

What happens if they try your strategy is either of these two options:

1. Each Jedi tries to distract a single Sith Lord, engaging them in a duel and not being as free to mvoe as they usually would, while 19 free Sith warriors all move to attack Oppo.

2. The Jedi position themselves so there's literally no space around/path to Oppo for the Sith to take. This is all well and good, but they end up losing not only one of their number, but are also forced to adopt extremely limiting positions simply to protect their one member, while the Sith warriors get to fully focus on adopting the most advantageous positioning the attack the guarding Jedi. of course, the Sith are still free to attack Oppo with the Force, and as I said, there would be about 19 free Sith warriors, all free to attack with TK or lightning or whatever they wish to.

Hardly a good strategy.

Actually I just recalled Shaak Ti took on what...16 Magnaguards at once? She could easily down 5 Sith Warriors.

Btw, to give an idea of how many Sith Warriors others have taken in different times, Kol Skywalker killed 7 and a bunch of troopers before being lightning in the back by a powerful Lord (Darth Nihl) in the assault on the Jedi Temple at Ossus, and Antares Draco killed 6-7 at once during the mission to Korriban to free Marasiah Fel (he'd already killed a few earlier too)... and in neither case did they have anyone to watch their backs, that was fighting off foes coming from different sides.


Now, while one can put Kol aside for being a Skywalker and Grand Master, and Draco certainly is a badass, it'd take a lot of arguing to convince me that Antares Draco is above war-focused Jedi Council member level, let alone way above.



Yea.... you know that just because they're holding off one, or more, sith lords, doesn't mean they're out of the way, right?

If you send 6 sith to fight 6 Jedi that are surrounding Oppo, then rather than having a clear path to your target, you have 12 people in your way taking up space until some of them die. And, like, physically in the way, if you try tossing lightning through a thick fighting, you're likely to either hit the backs of sith warriors or the sabers of Jedi, or Master Yoda counter-pushing everyone who tries, because he's Yoda and he can do that.

It also takes only a few Jedi to make a sizable force dome barrier against attacks.


You can use distractions to pull off one or two people, but in groups this big, it's easy for the Jedi to form perimeters and simply not allow openings, and to fight shoulder to shoulder. They won't move to allow a path, and all 30 Sith warriors cannot engage at the same time because there will not be enough room around the Jedi with the Jedi fighting side-to-side and back to back for everyone to fit in.

Nor will there be easy opening for force attacks if there's a bunch of sith warriors in melee combat... there will be if they stay back and all try the force, but, collective force power, the 12 > the 30, so that's a rub game too.

Originally posted by Q99
Btw, to give an idea of how many Sith Warriors others have taken in different times, Kol Skywalker killed 7 and a bunch of troopers before being lightning in the back by a powerful Lord (Darth Nihl) in the assault on the Jedi Temple at Ossus, and Antares Draco killed 6-7 at once during the mission to Korriban to free Marasiah Fel (he'd already killed a few earlier too)... and in neither case did they have anyone to watch their backs, that was fighting off foes coming from different sides.


Now, while one can put Kol aside for being a Skywalker and Grand Master, and Draco certainly is a badass, it'd take a lot of arguing to convince me that Antares Draco is above war-focused Jedi Council member level, let alone way above.

If you want to discredit the feat of killing that number of Jedi/Sith in combat, you'll need more than "it'd take a lot of arguing to convince me that Antares Draco is above war-focused Jedi Council member level, let alone way above."

We largely judge these characters by feats, and that is one spectacular feat, why would that not positively colour your perception of Antares Draco.

Plus, not sure you can say those Sith were as good as the strike team from the sacking of Coruscant.



And as I said if they intentionally position themselves in such a way, they are not positioning themselves in the tactically most effective way for the immediate battle. Meanwhile the Sith can recoordinate their attack and use the Jedi's tight formation against them, pushing them all into the centre until it breaks, making use of the fact that the Jedi won't commit to a change in positioning etc. I also think you underestimate the ease with which a free combatant would be able to move past while tied up with someone else.



Remind me when Yoda or his peers have Force pushed approximately 20 Force Users at once.

BTW they could simply sue TK, problem solved.



Which further ties up more Jedi.

You can use distractions to pull off one or two people, but in groups this big, it's easy for the Jedi to form perimeters and simply not allow openings, and to fight shoulder to shoulder. They won't move to allow a path, and all 30 Sith warriors cannot engage at the same time because there will not be enough room around the Jedi with the Jedi fighting side-to-side and back to back for everyone to fit in.

Nor will there be easy opening for force attacks if there's a bunch of sith warriors in melee combat...

Refer to the above.



I don't know how you think you can be so sure of this. You're either severely underestimating the Sith warriors, overestimating the regular council memebrs, or overestimating the contribution Yoda would add to the team.

I'm saying, it's positive of Draco, but he doesn't strike me as way above most council members, certainly not over twice as much (he's a peer to several Jedi combatants of his time after all, so I'd basically have to say Legacy Jedi council equivalent >> CW Jedi council members).

So I'm left with two options: Either put the Legacy characters *well* above CW Jedi council members, or put the CW Council members, the combat focused ones at least, reasonably close to Draco's performance.

Putting the average council members at just 1 or 2 sith warriors is just speculation itself, not based on any particular event, so I view the later of my two scenarios as more likely.




They were guards at an important facility at Korriban (the one guarding the most valuable prisoner they had), so they were likely to be strong.

Even if they were 2/3rd as strong as the Strike Team Sith, to give them a fairly conservative number, that'd make Draco worth at least 4 Strike Team sith.

Originally posted by carthage
Jedi council might have this but sustain MASSIVE casualties with possibly only Yoda, Windu, and whichever one doesn't get wtfpwned by Malgus, Adras, and the Sith. Its actually kind of interesting to think about who would live. Good thread. adraas got his ass kicked by Ven Zallow do you think he even stands a chance against a council member since all council members from the CW are stronger then Zallow

Originally posted by PTforthewin
adraas got his ass kicked by Ven Zallow do you think he even stands a chance against a council member since all council members from the CW are stronger then Zallow

Gonna disagree with that one, Zallow was one of the top warriors of the Jedi at the time.

Still, there are a few councilors here stronger than him, and more not far behind him.

I shall clarify some things here:-

All of the Sith Warriors who were dispatched for Sacking of Coruscant mission were actually battle-hardened/accomplished veterans of war (all had killed some Jedi during battles and not just Republic regulars). Darth Malgus, Lord Adraas and Lord Praven were among these Sith Warriors but this doesn't implies that others whom have not been identified yet were mooks or something.

I believe that the Jedi Council is outgunned. And Ven Zallow is massively underrated.

You really said he was more clever than me, Nephthys?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
I shall clarify some things here:-

All of the Sith Warriors who were dispatched for Sacking of Coruscant mission were actually battle-hardened/accomplished veterans of war (all had killed some Jedi during battles and not just Republic regulars). Darth Malgus, Lord Adraas and Lord Praven were among these Sith Warriors but this doesn't implies that others whom have not been identified yet were mooks or something.

But at least two were fairly easily dispatched by Zallow, and the non-Lords weren't slicing through Jedi left and right like the lords were.


While veterans, they were certainly 'elite mooks' next to the likes of Malgus and Zallow.





Zallow's awesome, but the Council is fairly awesome too.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Only Coleman Kjac, and Eeth Koth are shitty duelists.


Eeth Koth with injured hand dueled on par with Grievous.

Jedi Council takes this, easily, with no casualties.

Originally posted by Zett
Eeth Koth with injured hand dueled on par with Grievous.

Jedi Council takes this, easily, with no casualties.

Two saber Grievous, but the point still stands it was with Magnaguard back up.

Originally posted by Q99
I'm saying, it's positive of Draco, but he doesn't strike me as way above most council members, certainly not over twice as much (he's a peer to several Jedi combatants of his time after all, so I'd basically have to say Legacy Jedi council equivalent >> CW Jedi council members).

So I'm left with two options: Either put the Legacy characters *well* above CW Jedi council members, or put the CW Council members, the combat focused ones at least, reasonably close to Draco's performance.

Putting the average council members at just 1 or 2 sith warriors is just speculation itself, not based on any particular event, so I view the later of my two scenarios as more likely.

It's also not unheard of for Force Users to perform far beyond their means when fighting for someone they love romantically, not to mention due to PIS.

I really don't think you can use this incident as a means to discredit the feat of singlehandedly defeating a group of around 7 high level Jedi/Sith at once.



I wouldn't put that on the same level as the strike team. The guards at the prison are on duty over an extended period of time, and thus placing high level Sith there ties them up from other activity they might otherwise be doing. Thus I feel they would put reasonably competent, but very much dispensible Sith on station there.

The strike team however was assembled for a singular mission, and one of absolutely huge importance, so I'd imagine they would have assembled relatively very high level Sith Lords to carry out the mission. We know it was important enough that numerous named Sith Lords that we know are extremely powerful were there. I don't see how you wouldn't put them at least at master level personally (master level in combat prowess against Jedi specifically).

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Yoda and Mace solo.

lmao @ this thread

Yoda, Mace, Anakin and Obi Wan slaughter them by themselves.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
lmao @ this thread

Yoda, Mace, Anakin and Obi Wan slaughter them by themselves.