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We'll kick off the tournament with an interesting matchup: Darth Traya and Obi Wan Kenobi.

Darth Traya

Darth Traya was a jedi master-turned sith lord during the Old Republic Era, instructing Revan in the ways of the force until he decided to lead the attack on the mandalorians. Revan's downfall caused the jedi council to exile her, and she wandered the galaxy. Darth Traya then came to Malachor V to learn the ways of the sith, and here she trained Darth Sion and Darth Nihilus in the ways of Pain and Hunger, respectively. Traya herself learned the ways of betrayal, and learn she did.

When Sion and Nihilus felt they had enough of Traya, they betrayed her, stripped her of her force connection and broke her. Traya was now cast from the sith and the jedi, and in this dilemma she stumbled upon the famous Jedi Exile, Meetra Surik. Traya used this to her advantage, training Surik to one day be capable of destroying those who betrayed her, Sion and Nihilus. Eventually, Traya received what she wanted, her first true successful apprentice, and the deaths of those who hurt her. In the end, however, Traya was defeated by Meetra in battle, and was killed.


Obi Wan Kenobi

Obi Wan Kenobi was a human male jedi master during The Clone Wars, and was one of the most skilled and powerful jedi masters of his time. A wise master, he trained Anakin Skywalker in the ways of the force, molding him into a powerful jedi knight. Obi Wan and Anakin participated in many battles during the Clone Wars, and were each high tier jedi generals in the conflict. Together the two killed Count Dooku on the invisible hand, weakening the Separatists immensely. In fact, it was Obi Wan who was instructed to deal the crippling blow, defeating General Grevious on Utapau.

However, after this there was more turmoil instead of justice. The Sith Lord Darth Sidious revealed himself, Mace Windu was slain, and Anakin had pledged himself to Sidious's tutelage. Obi Wan was betrayed by his own clones through order 66, forcing him to rendezvous with Yoda. After they slew a force of clones in the jedi temple, yoda decided that Obi Wan should face Anakin, while Yoda faced the Emperor. Obi Wan was forced into an epic duel with his apprentice on Mustafar, and ultimately defeated the newly christened Lord Vader due a crucial tactical mistake on Vader's part. Ultimately, Kenobi witnessed the birth of Padme's children, delivered Luke to a family on Tatooine, and lived there in exile.


Terrain

The terrain is an open desert wasteland, with rocks and stones on the landscape.

So, who wins? Note that your argument will be completely and utterly ignored if you post a simple one sentence response, unless you are contesting a single point from someone else.

NOTE: TRAYA HAS NO GIGA DRAIN ON HER SIDE IN ANY BATTLES IN THE BATTLEZONE.

It should be noted TCSWE states Darth Traya was more powerful then the Exile, but lost in combat, which is further seen in KOTORTSL Prima Guide where it states Traya has a poor defense, but is a powerhouse the force. That being said, she giga-drains Kenobi before he can really do anything.

read my edit.

Traya has an obvious advantage with the Force. Considering how easily Dooku or even Maul could dismiss Kenobi with TK, I'd say he's certainly vulnerable to her in that respect.

Question to Forum: When Traya mass murdered those Sith Assassins in like 3 seconds, was that via giga drain or choke?

I'm honestly open to this one. Traya's TK sent council members flying, and her use of shatterpoint could open up Kenobi for a killing blow. Her force abilities are on par if not superior to his, though his TK feats as noted by Sasuke are perhaps a bit more impressive. Kenobi is easily the better duelist, but Traya's force abilities might be his end.

I don't know I'll wait till I read more posts. Kinda leaning towards Traya, as Kenobi has been virtually fubared by every darksider he's ever fought ragdolled, choked, hit by a force wave his defense against force attacks is virtually nonexistent.

Traya gigadrains anyways, because spite sucks.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Question to Forum: When Traya mass murdered those Sith Assassins in like 3 seconds, was that via giga drain or choke?

I don't think it was drain. There wasn't a noise or anything, they just.... fell over dead.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ

NOTE: TRAYA HAS NO GIGA DRAIN ON HER SIDE IN ANY BATTLES IN THE BATTLEZONE.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Traya gigadrains anyways, because spite sucks.

It would be spite to let her gigadrain, bro. This is a very close match without it.

I think I see Traya winning though. She can hold him off with her levitated lightsabers while she works up for a Force Pwn. Kenobi's defensive nature won't help him here imo.

That said, if he can engage her in up close she's pretty ****ed.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Traya gigadrains anyways, because spite sucks.

Nah, Kenobi blitzes with his mach 12000+ speed.

Who cares about his speed, hes never been depicting blitzing another one of his fights just stalemating them and or fighting them inconclusively.

If someone can post some of Traya's feats with TK, I can be persuaded to vote for her.

typing up a semi-long response right now

Darth Traya scathes a victory here. I think that with four sabers Traya can hold Kenobi off long enough to secure a TK victory. Especially with the rocky terrain.

Yeah, terrain is another factor.

What are Traya's feats with TK?

here's my analysis:

Lightsaber Ability

Darth Traya was a skilled lightsaber duelist, having knowledge of Shi Cho, Makashi, and Soresu, as well as being able to telekenetically use three lightsabers at once. Unfortunately, there is not much else known about Traya's capabilities with a lightsaber.

Obi Wan was a master lightsaber duelist, and the premier Soresu duelist of the era. he has stalemated/defeated many foes, including Asajj Ventress, General Grevious, Darth Maul, and Anakin Skywalker.

Conclusion: While Darth Traya is a capable duelist, and her trio of sabers would be difficult to fend off, kenobi has the edge here.

Force Ability

Darth Traya was a master of the force and a variety of abilities. She was capable of telekenetically manhandling 3 jedi council members, choking out Master Zez Kai El, choked out Darth Sion (if you count restored content as canon), stomped a bunch of Sith Assassins. Her powers include: TK, lightning, TP, Concealment, mind tricks, beast control, and possibly shatterpoint (which she calls "fractures".

Obi Wan is a skilled user of TK, being able to move durge's ship, stalemate Anakin in a force push battle, ripping down slabs of durasteel, etc. He was also capable with mind tricks.

Conclusion: While Kenobi's TK is serviceable, his force defenses would not be enough to defend against traya.

Physicality

Darth Traya is an old, withered woman, presumably in her 60's-70's, although she is still perfectly capable in combat.

Kenobi is a jedi in his prime, around his early 30's. He's shown the ability to fight evenly with the physicality of Darth Maul, and hold off Anakin Skywalker's strength in Djem So.

Conclusion: Kenobi has the clear edge here.

Tactical Aptitude

Darth Traya is a very wise woman, using the force in effective ways to defeat her enemies, although she has never participated in a major battle.

Obi Wan is very smart tactically, being involved in many battles, and has fought a wide variety of force users. He has defeated opponents on occasion with his wits and tactical ability.

Conclusion: Traya is certainly quite a bit wiser than Kenobi, but Kenobi has more combat experience. I say he gets the edge here.


Edge: I'd say Traya wins because of her very sizeable superiority in the force. However use of the environment on Kenobi's part would make her job more difficult.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Darth Traya is an old, withered woman, presumably in her 60's-70's, although she is still perfectly capable in combat.

True, she did beat the piss out of Atton, lol.

and if we count restored content, she dodges multiple blade attacks from the handmaiden on Malachor.

Kenobi would seem to clearly have the edge in sabers. He clearly primarily used his saber in combat, has a number of great feats and accolades to his skill, and Traya was herself clearly more of a Force practitioner, and we have little reason to believe that she was notably good with a lightsaber at all.

That being said, Obi-Wan has to close the distance to be able to engage Traya in a saber match. Traya meanwhile can attack Obi-Wan with the Force at any range, and given Obi-Wan's defensive nature, is unlikely to "press" Traya in a lightsaber battle and keep her from using the Force against him if he manages to close the distance, when that would otherwise be a viable strategy.

So I believe the question is whether Traya can decisively win this contest through the use of the Force and not allow Kenobi to turn this into a lightsaber battle.

Which I will get to later after seeing a few more posts.

Question: do we count cut content? It's your call TS.

I would probably be fine with that, yes. I'm pretty sure the reason that stuff was cut anyways was because of how little time the developers had to make it.

Count me for Traya.

See ya later Kenobi

Yeah I just wanna wait and see if anyone provides an argument for kenobi before i choose the winner.

d0BSSQrXebE

So here we have Traya casually owning about 7 Sith Assassins and then completely dominating Sion with a Force choke. Owning that number of Force Users with such ease is something rarely seen, and Sion was an extraodrinarily powerful Sith Lord - some will try to argue that he wasn't and that his ability (which was completely unprecedented) was a fluke and that he was a one trick pony, but the truth is that rarely is a Force User so fantastic at one thing and then lousy at everything else, and while possible the likelihood is that the unprecedented ability required a high level of ability, that would be transferable to other Force abilities.

Could somebody find the cut content version of the video where she owns th Jedi Masters?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EtByaOxiwE

But anyway, Traya has among the finest demonstrations of owning Force users there are; she's casually ownede large numbers of them, she's dominated supremely powerful Force users, and she's dominated multiple council members at the same time. As Nephthys said, both Savage and Dooku didn't have too many problems with overpowering Obi-Wan with the Force , and as far as what they have all demonstrated, Traya has by far the best feats when it comes to owning Force users (Likewise, Kenobi has shown little aptitude with the Force compared to someone like Sion, who was unable to defend against Traya), and the chances are that she'll be able to do the same to Kenobi.

edit - that's not it i dont think

Originally posted by Astor Ebligis
edit - that's not it i dont think
That's it, according to the videos description.

Kenobi loses, next thread PLOX!

k

Thats definitely cut content.

Where's the video where she ragdolls them with TK as well?

the one ur taking about is a modded video. Like, Vash is in it and everything.

Doesn't Traya also solo the entire party (except for the Exile) near the end of the game?

Originally posted by red8
Doesn't Traya also solo the entire party (except for the Exile) near the end of the game?
In cut content, yes.

Originally posted by Astor Ebligis
But anyway, Traya has among the finest demonstrations of owning Force users there are; she's casually ownede large numbers of them, she's dominated supremely powerful Force users, and she's dominated multiple council members at the same time. As Nephthys said, both Savage and Dooku didn't have too many problems with overpowering Obi-Wan with the Force , and as far as what they have all demonstrated, Traya has by far the best feats when it comes to owning Force users (Likewise, Kenobi has shown little aptitude with the Force compared to someone like Sion, who was unable to defend against Traya), and the chances are that she'll be able to do the same to Kenobi.

edit - that's not it i dont think
dominates supremely powerful Force users? Which ones?

---

Traya should take this contest.

He's talking about Sion.

Sion.

Meh. Sion's not better then Scourge.

Truth.

Except being able to simply choke him out suggests her to be extremely powerful

Sion isn't a supremely powerful Force-user. He is not even acknowledged as a powerful Force-user in canon.

The fact that he's able to keep himself together with just the force shows that he's pretty powerful.

He's ok. He still got stomped by the Exile.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
The fact that he's able to keep himself together with just the force shows that he's pretty powerful.
Sion is not a powerful Force-user in canon context. His offensive capabilities are rather open to scrutiny.

Sion is noted to have supernatural vitality because of his reasonable command of immortality talents, he isn't easy to kill since he subconsciously prevents his bodily disintegration with his command of the dark side.

Originally posted by Nephthys
He's ok. He still got stomped by the Exile.

Yeah. But that was uber TSL Meetra. I still agree that he's not what I'd consider a supremely powerful force user.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Yeah. But that was uber TSL Meetra. I still agree that he's not what I'd consider a supremely powerful force user.
We have to put things in context. Their is no such thing as a uber TSL Meetra.

Meetra is canonically acknowledged as a powerful Jedi. She was possibly better then Sion but it is also known that the latter had soft corner for the former and willingly gave-up during the duel (or) the former convinced the latter to give-up with decent Dun Moch talent and proving impossible to overcome for the latter. Truth come be somewhere in the middle.

I just don't see why people see a supremely powerful Force Feat and don't immediately think supremely powerful Force User. I acknowledge that it's possible that he was simply only good at one ability, but how often do we see that in Star Wars, and why would you think of that as the more probable scenario? The feat speaks for characteristics, that would likely revolve around willpower, strength in the Force, and a specific knowledge/technique, but it makes perfect sense that it was through core abilities that truly stand out, that he was able to achieve something so unprecedented.

I submit that his lack of other feats is primarily due to his screen time in the game, and the primary exposure being on his status as this immortal Sith Lord.

If you saw someone and their only feat was blowing up a planet with lightningl, would you assume that they were a one trick pony that was only good with lightning, or that they were in general extremely powerful?

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Theres a kid with brain-damage in Swtor who can cloak entire fleets with the Force, but thats all he can do. Sometimes people just have special talents.

I'm not too sure that applies to Sion though. Holding himself together with the Force isn't THAT impressive imo. Not supremely so.

That isn't all that he does bro.stupid

Its still not that great, bro.

It's something numerous people tried and never managed to succeed at, derp.

Other than Simus, you mean.

Simus's ability wasn't infallible. He ended up getting killed by blaster fire. Plus his was a product of Sith technology/alchemy. Clearly he was able to prolong his life in such a state, but he couldn't cheat death entirely as Sion could.

Ok, I'm still not seeing how its some amazing feat of incredible force power. I checked and the Kotor campaign guide does make it seem like its just something that he's innately talented at, like Cognus blunting the Force or that Goonies kid cloaking fleets.

Bantha got your tail? admit defeat brother broseph. you have been bested

Are you Neb or what? I can't tell.

Not sure what you mean by that. Is Neb a name or an adjective?

I'm sorry, Sion seems to be kinda a one-trick pony. He can hold himself together through the force yes, but I haven't see anything else from him that impresses me.

Its short for Nebaris. Which is who I thought you were. Or that other guy whose name I can't remember, who trolled Peach about Guild Wars or something.

Originally posted by ares834
Nah, Kenobi blitzes with his mach 12000+ speed. God damn it.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Ok, I'm still not seeing how its some amazing feat of incredible force power. I checked and the Kotor campaign guide does make it seem like its just something that he's innately talented at, like Cognus blunting the Force or that Goonies kid cloaking fleets.

There are far more cases where the people who are notable for a particular ability are in general extremely powerful. Nihilus from the same game is notable for his drain, Traya for her vision, and yet both are in general extremely powerful Sith Lords (Nihilus's TK feats, Traya owning Force Users left right and centre). Bastilla from the first game was notably talented in BM, but again, was simply a very powerful Force User. Mace Windu is notable for his Shatterpoint ability, and yet is still an all around powerful Force User. There are examples like this throughout the mythos, and the reasoning behind it I would imagine, is that it's usually not just enough to have an aptitude for an ability to become extremely powerful at it, it usually requires both that specific aptitude, and the great power/skill that the technique demands to perform at that level.

Cases where someone is literally only competent at one thing, but extremely competent at it, are not the norm.

I can't think of a finer Force User who's ever been dominated like that.

Thanaton.

No-ones saying he's not powerful but thats it. Just that doesn't mean he's amazing or anything. Also Darth Nox fights a guy, Lord Paladius, who completely drains her of the Force with his mere presence. Its seems to be a unique talent of his just like Sions ability.

Nox still defeats him without the Force though. So either Nox is just that good, or the man wasn't some Force diety.