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New 52 Apollo from Stormwatch
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_small/10/103530/2120819-1042071_1037778_thor_creamsicle_super_super.jpg

vs

The ionic man
http://i1135.photobucket.com/albums/m624/marvelu/wondermanuncanny_zpsef18a3cf.jpg

Fight!

Apollo takes this one .

Yes

Apollo wins, but it's a tough fight.

Simon wins. He hits like Thor's hammer.

WM, powers and abilities are similar to Hulk. What I mean by that, the madder the stronger he becomes.

Originally posted by Stoic
Apollo wins, but it's a tough fight.

Originally posted by Digi

Really? Simon recently choked Rulk out and he was armwrestling Thor to a standstill under the very same writer.

Also he took lasers in the microverse better than Thor.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Really? Simon recently choked Rulk out and he was armwrestling Thor to a standstill under the very same writer.

Also he took lasers in the microverse better than Thor.

We're gonna get into "most recent vs. body-of-work" argument here, involving outlier showings and averages and all that great stuff. Which is a debate that I don't want to have. I'll just throw the bone that the "...but it's a tough fight" part from my quoted post is an agreement that it could go either way, and that if someone is higher on Simon than me and lower on Apollo, it's a reasonable opinion to see it going the other way. WM is probably the best Marvel matchup for Apollo in terms of matching like to like, so there's very few wrong answers here (outside of "stomps" either way and similarly polarized nonsense).

Originally posted by Digi
We're gonna get into "most recent vs. body-of-work" argument here, involving outlier showings and averages and all that great stuff. Which is a debate that I don't want to have. I'll just throw the bone that the "...but it's a tough fight" part from my quoted post is an agreement that it could go either way, and that if someone is higher on Simon than me and lower on Apollo, it's a reasonable opinion to see it going the other way. WM is probably the best Marvel matchup for Apollo in terms of matching like to like, so there's very few wrong answers here (outside of "stomps" either way and similarly polarized nonsense).
But Simon received an official upgrade under Bendis, so his previous showings have less weight than his past showings.

How strong is Apollo compared to Thor IYO? Because Simon is nigh equal to Thor in strength most days.

Abhi, only time will tell. Under one persons pen, Simon is gold, under another, he's garbage. Well maybe not garbage, because that's too strong of a word for him, but he's prone to failure once he reaches the big leagues. I agree with Digi on this, a few showings may not stop certain writers from ignoring several lack luster performances of the past.

Rulk is a huge overrated push over.

Apollo wins after a good fight, I agree with Digi.

Originally posted by Bentley
Rulk is a huge overrated push over.

Apollo wins after a good fight, I agree with Digi.
He's a pushover who under Bendis was more durable than Thor and as strong as him.

Originally posted by abhilegend
He's a pushover who under Bendis was more durable than Thor and as strong as him.

Yeah, their respective battles against Angrir depicts them as equals ermm

Originally posted by Bentley
Yeah, their respective battles against Angrir depicts them as equals ermm
Rulk doesn't has mjolnir.

ermmnone

And its not like Rulk outperformed Thor directly under Bendis.

http://i.imgur.com/lGrjzLa.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/LsW1N87.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/rTAEA5M.jpg

Thor is still in La-La land while Rulk is taking on Hood again.

http://i.imgur.com/cBQDAIb.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/AhJ1h7U.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/rU2iH6b.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/LgBBxzb.jpg

Or direct stalemate in strength via armwrestling.

http://i.imgur.com/FrUpHnZ.jpg

It was shown in background but the implication is pretty clear.

Well, would I give a Thor without mjolnir the win against Apollo?

Originally posted by Bentley
Well, would I give a Thor without mjolnir the win against Apollo?
I would. I imagine digi would too.

srug

Originally posted by abhilegend
I would. I imagine digi would too.

srug

Thor has the high feats to back up his sh*t. Not even Wonderman has the "going all out" quality that Thor has shown at his best. As for Average Thor it seems Digi already preferred Apollo mmm

Originally posted by Bentley
Thor has the high feats to back up his sh*t. Not even Wonderman has the "going all out" quality that Thor has shown at his best. As for Average Thor it seems Digi already preferred Apollo mmm
Eh, I would back average Thor against Apollo.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Eh, I would back average Thor against Apollo.

I'm not saying it isn't a defensible claim, I do think Apollo has enough showings to operate at that level and prove a more dangerous opponent overall. He did a number on Captain Atom.

Originally posted by Bentley
I'm not saying it isn't a defensible claim, I do think Apollo has enough showings to operate at that level and prove a more dangerous opponent overall. He did a number on Captain Atom.
And Mary Marvel beat the shit out of Captain Atom.

Originally posted by abhilegend
And Mary Marvel beat the shit out of Captain Atom.



Was that an empowered Mary Marvel or a regular one? Did Captain Atom went down like a chump in a team book or was he actually trying?

That was black Mary

Originally posted by Bentley
Was that an empowered Mary Marvel or a regular one? Did Captain Atom went down like a chump in a team book or was he actually trying?
That was a normal Mary. See for yourself. Both were bloodlusted FWIW.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Mary Marvel wtfowns Captain Atom

http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t1/15744125_Image19.jpg http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t1/15744126_Image20.jpg http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t1/15744135_Image21.jpg http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t1/15744136_Image22.jpg

Originally posted by carver9
That was black Mary
facepalm

Originally posted by abhilegend
That was a normal Mary. See for yourself. Both were bloodlusted FWIW.

Wow, very good showing for Mary.

I see her casually murdering Red Hulk

Originally posted by Bentley
Wow, very good showing for Mary.

I see her casually murdering Red Hulk
Booster Gold held her off one issue later.

whistling

Originally posted by abhilegend
Booster Gold held her off one issue later.

whistling

Booster Gold > Hammerless Thor biscuits

Originally posted by Bentley
Booster Gold > Hammerless Thor biscuits

Originally posted by Digi
We're gonna get into "most recent vs. body-of-work" argument here, involving outlier showings and averages and all that great stuff. Which is a debate that I don't want to have. I'll just throw the bone that the "...but it's a tough fight" part from my quoted post is an agreement that it could go either way, and that if someone is higher on Simon than me and lower on Apollo, it's a reasonable opinion to see it going the other way. WM is probably the best Marvel matchup for Apollo in terms of matching like to like, so there's very few wrong answers here (outside of "stomps" either way and similarly polarized nonsense).

Well, what's your reasoning for Apollo winning? Specifically this incarnation?

IIRC last year he had a bit of a peak where he got some lip-service being on par with Superman or whatever but compared to the push Simon had, Apollo might as well be a quadriplegic.

If we want to discuss body of work, why would classic Apollo win? I mean, both are considered to be below the elite beings for the majority of their career but their have been periods of time where Simon has gotten pushes where he's right up there with guys like Thor/Hulk etc. which I don't think I've ever seen from Apollo. A running theme of Wonder Man's has been that it's his own mental hangups that hold him back from accessing his true power or whatever (The reasons for his various fluctuations). The implication that he has the power and just lacks the confidence in itself elevates him above Apollo personally. Maybe it's just my own ignorance, but I don't think I've heard the same being said for Apollo.

Originally posted by Bentley
Thor has the high feats to back up his sh*t. Not even Wonderman has the "going all out" quality that Thor has shown at his best. As for Average Thor it seems Digi already preferred Apollo mmm

Lol.

Apollo would be lucky to beat young Thor. And that's if he doesn't use lightning to f*ck up his solar charge.

Originally posted by Bentley
Yeah, their respective battles against Angrir depicts them as equals ermm Originally posted by abhilegend
Rulk doesn't has mjolnir.

ermmnone
SHAZAM! LOL.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus

Apollo would be lucky to beat young Thor. And that's if he doesn't use lightning to f*ck up his solar charge.

Even Young Thor has "going all out" abilities when compared with the likes of... Red Hulk. Do you think a non-absorbing Rulk has a snowball's chance in hell against Thor?

Originally posted by Bentley
Even Young Thor has "going all out" abilities when compared with the likes of... Red Hulk. Do you think a non-absorbing Rulk has a snowball's chance in hell against Thor?

Well, yea.

You're diminishing Rulk, in a thread with Apollo of all people, because what, he can't compare to a high end Thor kicking it up a notch against Angrir?

That MIGHT be a good argument if this was a thread involving Hulk or Superman but Apollo? He might as well be cannon fodder that Thor one-shots to fight the big bad when we use high end incarnations.

Put simply, Rulk was shown to be as strong and easily as durable (Even outright said to be tougher then Green Hulk) as Thor in the Infinity Gems saga. That alone elevates him to a level where Apollo gets broken in half. Then, under that same writer, Wonder Man chumps him. And to top it all off, Rulk is shown stalemating Thor in an arm wrestling contest and said to be as strong as Hulk very soon after (While not conclusive, it's clear he didn't suddenly drop a tier or anything). While I clearly doubt, he'd treat Thor/Hulk the same way, much less at the levels in their respective titles, as far as Apollo is concerned, Wonder Man as he was then was far out of his league.

I'll never understand why people give Red Hulk so much rep, comparisions with top tiers with inferior feats can only take you to Martian Manhunter level awesr