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Neutral setting, no nexus buffs, no PIS. Anakin as of RotS, same with Dooku.

Nox and EW as of their respective peaks at the ends of their campaign.

Surprise surprise, I choose Team TOR. Nox can dominate either one and the Wrath is a great fight for either, probably better than them.

Nox most certainly cannot dominate either one.

Less American Idol; more Judge Judy. Bring me arguments and souls to devour.

Nox dominated Thanaton with laughable ease. She casually backhanded his lightning away like it was a mosquito. She's got the combined power of 6 powerful Force users. She'd dominate Anakin or Dooku.

Team TOR

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Nox most certainly cannot dominate either one.
Why not?

Originally posted by Nephthys
Nox dominated Thanaton with laughable ease. She casually backhanded his lightning away like it was a mosquito. She's got the combined power of 6 powerful Force users. She'd dominate Anakin or Dooku.

And Tyranus defeated Ventress with a finger and was able to backhand his own lightning away when it was redirected by effing Yoda.

1. Ventress, as much as I love her, is a small fish in a big ocean of Force users. It's a good feat, but context is important. Darth Thanaton is vastly superior to her.

2. His own lightning is so weak Obi-Wan can block it without difficulty.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
And Tyranus defeated Ventress with a finger and was able to backhand his own lightning away when it was redirected by effing Yoda.

Tyranus can't defeat her so easily in actual combat though and he doesn't casually backhand it, he dramatically deflects it while looking visibly startled.

Both Nox and Thanaton have superior lightning to Dooku anyway. Nox was blowing up rock and statues even without the ghost amp, Kel was exploding metal 40 years before TOR. Dooku's lightning is weeeeak.

During beta, Thanaton was OP even at level cap. I wonder if they nerfed him since?

He was still annoyingly hard for me. I was like wtf I'm meant to be owning this sucker.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
1. Ventress, as much as I love her, is a small fish in a big ocean of Force users. It's a good feat, but context is important. Darth Thanaton is vastly superior to her.

She still fights on par with and defeats Council members, some of which are amongst the greatest duelists in the Order's 25,000 year history.



Feat for Obi-Wan not a negative for Dooku.
Anakin strains a bit to deflect it in TCWs, Ventress barely is able to deflect it, Yoda deflects it "far from easily", and he is able to blast three people simultaneously with it.

Originally posted by Nephthys
He was still annoyingly hard for me. I was like wtf I'm meant to be owning this sucker.

I'll be honest, on Corellia I barely barely edged out a victory, surviving with under 10 HP. It was intense. On Korriban, I had a friend help me beat him in true Sith fashion.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
She still fights on par with and defeats Council members, some of which are amongst the greatest duelists in the Order's 25,000 year history.

But she is not equivalent to a Dark Council member, is noticeably inferior to every other Sith in the PT in the Force, and is barely a Dark jedi with a few years' training.

It's a really poor example to use.



Dooku's lightning is noticeably smaller and weaker than Sidious' and Thanaton's (the latter can conjure entire storms in combat) and is deflected with little effort. Comparatively, Sidious' lightning, even when holding back, staggers Mace Windu. There's a huge disparity there.

Tbh, TK is Dooku's Force strength, not lightning. He spams it, but he doesn't generate much power behind it, which makes sense because he hasn't been a Sith his whole life.



But he doesn't no-sell Force Storms from Dark Council members, does he? Nox walks through shit.

You're underselling the TOR team here.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
I'll be honest, on Corellia I barely barely edged out a victory, surviving with under 10 HP. It was intense. On Korriban, I had a friend help me beat him in true Sith fashion.

I kicked his ass in Corellia. It was great, I walked through his allies and shat on his face right in front of everyone. But he was inexplicably badass on Korriban. Shit was embarrassing, yo.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Anakin strains a bit to deflect it in TCWs,

As I said, Nox would dominate Anakin.

Team 1 wins. Both of them have vastly greater skill feats and physical feats.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Team 1 wins. Both of them have vastly greater skill feats and physical feats.

http://i.imgur.com/NWm5W.gif

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Team 1 wins. Both of them have vastly greater skill feats and physical feats.

Trololol!

Team 1 rolls here.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Team 1 rolls here.

http://media.giphy.com/media/9wBub5vhSsTDi/giphy.gif

This is a stomp by team 1 here.

Also LOL @ making a thread where the OP has his winner picked from the start and then posts mocking gifs at users who disagree with him.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
This is a stomp by team 1 here.

Also LOL @ making a thread where the OP has his winner picked from the start and then posts mocking gifs at users who disagree with him.
You don't have an argument; you're just asserting without evidence.

Which is why I mock you.

Yeah I can't see your argument either.

Anakin solos.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Yeah I can't see your argument either.

Anakin solos.


https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/5902421760/hA5953646/

Nox would force Anakin to kneel to her then feed his whiney to ass to Khem as a snack. After pegging him all night long.

Khem is stronger than Anakin and Nox defeated him with a training saber.

Nox and co. are game mechanics that only are as good because people don't want to play with sucky characters when WOR is out there.

Dooku, on the other hand, is referred to as one of the most gifted Force adepts in the mythos, and Anakin is around even with him, more or less. Dooku solos, probably.

Nox keeps one of the most gifted Sorcerers in history locked in her brain. Big deal.

Anakin becomes stronger and more powerful as the fight goes on. He throws Dooku at Nox and Wrath while waiting as his power grows. When they come after him, he runs so they can't catch him, until he's able to literally one shot him.

Nox would just beat him to death with Dooku's mangled corpse. The Wrath has a 3-some with Jaesa and Vette in the background. Nox joins in.

Anakin has more midi chlorians in his sperm than Wrath has. He has 3 some with whoever that is while Wrath and Nox observes.

Its not how much you have, its how you use it. Anakin blows his load in a minute like the poorly trained goober he is.

Ahsoka called them and gave some tips on how to control him forehand.

Pedo, much?

Me or Anakin

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
But she is not equivalent to a Dark Council member, is noticeably inferior to every other Sith in the PT in the Force, and is barely a Dark jedi with a few years' training.

She is a Sith at her peak. Sidious ordered Tyranus to kill her for the same reason he had Vader kill Galen Marek. Kit Fisto is one of the Order's finest swordsman, but was no match for Ventress (who was not even at her peak). Ventress also is able to fend off both Kenobi and Skywalker at one point.





Actually in the most recent depiction of it, his lightning is of similar size of Sidious'
yxiXU6xXxoI



Except he KOs Ventress and 2 others with it while blind and drugged, KOs Bulq, KOs Anakin...




Nox does it on a nexus...and also we've never seen how powerful Dooku's lightning is on a nexus. But during the Yoda ritual it was of similar intensity to Sidious'

Originally posted by Lord Stark
She is a Sith at her peak.

No, she's not. She flat out tells Dooku in Dark Rendezvous that he should take her as a true Sith apprentice. She is explicitly called a Dark Jedi in most EU materials.



He's a stickler for rules? Also, relevance?



Who is on par with AotC Obi-Wan and can't block more than four swings by Sidious.



Yeah, but none of this speaks to her Force talent or knowledge, which is key to the discussion. "She is good; therefore, the feat is good" is not logical.



Doesn't change the fact that his lightning is inferior to Thanaton's.

Nox > Thanaton by a large margin.



Yeah, none of them bonafide Sith Lords in long standing.

Relevance?



Thanaton's lightning is done beforehand off of Korriban. Also, the narration makes it explicit that it is Nox's own power, amped by the souls she keeps locked inside, that allow her to smite Thanaton; not the dirt under her feet.

You're downplaying again, using a nexus as a write-off method.



So it's irrelevant to the discussion.



But he doesn't do that all the time.

Again, relevance. You're just slinging shit out and hoping it sticks.

Nox >>> Thanaton, nexus or no.

Thanaton's Force knowledge, experience, power >>>>>>>> Ventress.

Arguably, Thanaton > Dooku.

Therefore, Nox > Dooku.

Its not as if Thanaton wasn't on a nexus too.....

Shhh. He's downplaying non-film feats. Let him have his day.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
No, she's not. She flat out tells Dooku in Dark Rendezvous that he should take her as a true Sith apprentice. She is explicitly called a Dark Jedi in most EU materials.

Which he does after Dark Rendezvous...or did you miss the whole
"You are no longer my apprentice" bit in TCWs.




Nope. He senses her growing powerful, that's why he orders her dead. Note he didn't do so with Sora Bulq or any of Dooku's other acolytes.



Please, AOTCs Kenobi can't even follow Kit's movements and admitted inferiority to him.




How about force choking Kenobi and Skywalker?




How does similar in intensity and power to Sidious' translate to inferior to Thanaton?




"This is Anakin Skywalker, the most powerful Jedi of his generation, of perhaps any generation."
"Skywalker is arguably the most powerful Jedi alive."

Bulq is among the Order's finest.




Obviously Nox's power played a huge part, but to say the Nexus didn't play a part is ridiculous.

Example:
Dooku can dominate Ventress on any day with the force, on Vjun however he does it with a finger.



Not really. Thanaton gives Nox a pretty good fight on Corellia and yet gets utterly stomped on Korriban. The difference being setting imo.




No quite relevant because in the presence of Sidious (who's pretty much a nexus on his own) his lightning is depicted as on par with the Dark Lord's.




Nox>Thanaton on neutral ground as shown on Corellia.

Nox>>Thanaton on Korriban.

Thanaton gets his shit pushed in by Tyranus. Dooku will get in close to him with his Makashi and pwn.
Also the point wasn't that Dooku destroyed Ventress, its the ease at which he does so; far easier than Nox pwns Thanaton.

LOL @ Dooku's lightning being in any way comparable to Sidious'.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Which he does after Dark Rendezvous...or did you miss the whole
"You are no longer my apprentice" bit in TCWs.

Tbh, I didn't watch all of TCW, because I don't care that much for it. In any case "Relevance", because she was not a Sith of years' standing, period.

You are attaching undo importance to his dominance of her in this situation.



Relevance?



Yet fought on even footing with him in their mock battle. Reread the book.



Savage surprised TK choked Ventress and Dooku. Context is important, unless you think Savage is a top tier Force user.



One word: measurability.

The effects on similar targets details how effectively in turn we can measure a feat for objective analysis.

Sidious' lightning caused Mace and Yoda to both struggle.

Dooku's lightning is almost casually blocked by Obi-Wan, and I think even less casually blocked by Anakin and Ventress.

There's a significant margin in effect. It is therefore reasonable to conclude it is weaker by a significant margin than Sidious'. And Thanaton's lightning is if nothing else quite comparable to Sids'. Go watch some videos on it. Educate yourself.



... Who is not at this point a high level Force user, master, and Sith.

Again, relevance?



See above. Relevance.



To suggest the nexus was instrumental in the feat without any evidence whatsoever is much more ridiculous. Thanaton was also on a nexus, as was every Sith in the academy, the Dark Council, and the five muggles loading at the docks.

Again, relevance?



Prior to gathering more than one soul, Thanaton does the same with Nox. He's in another league altogether, and here Nox as a mere apprentice took out Khem with a training saber and outfought several Sith Lords.



That's not true at all.



1. Proof that Sids is a nexus. This is a new assertion and requires new evidence.

2. Proof that Sids' didn't influence or aid Dooku's lightning. Same criteria.



You're exaggerating the effect of the nexus to downplay the feat because it doesn't fit your bias.

This is quanning.



Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.



See above.



That's entirely exaggerated. Ventress has never shown abilities on par with anyone on the Dark Council, so to say that her dominance is greater ignores context.

So here's your argument thus far:

1. Red herrings.
2. Assertions without proof.
3. Downplaying opposition.

You got anything else?

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Tbh, I didn't watch all of TCW, because I don't care that much for it. In any case "Relevance", because she was not a Sith of years' standing, period.

Bias confirmed. Actually she would have been a Sith for about 2 years.



Not his dominance, the manner in which he did it.




She was his proper Sith Apprentice at her peak.




Prove Kit was going all out in the mock battle. By that logic Saesee Tiin is as powerful as Mace.




Context is important. Its still an important feat for Ventress.



Agreed.



Sidious is also the most powerful Sith Lord in history. Thanaton is far from that.



Kenobi is a Soresu/ defense specialist. It takes Skwalker and Ventress visible effort to block casual blasts from the Count.



Thanaton's lightning isn't comparable to Sidious'. It is just flashy.




Who cares? He's one of the most powerful Jedi. You behave as if being a Sith automatically makes one more powerful.





Yes but who do you think is going to benefit more? Thanaton? Or Nox who also has six spirits each also benefiting from a Nexus.






Relevance? They are all featless/ cannot hold a candle to Dooku.




Yeah right...that's why when Thanaton retreats Nox forces him to the ground with TK...oh wait.





He is described as a "Black hole of the dark side.",
"he had become a nexus of the dark side capable of tearing apart the fabric of space."- DE Endnotes


I don't have to prove a negative.



I don't really have a bias. I have played TOR and adamantly watched the class quests I haven't played, and have watched TCWs, unlike you who hasn't even scene most of the episodes.



Is this a word...




"Once a great Jedi Master, now an even greater Lord of the Sith"
"Dooku is a dark colossus bestriding the galaxy"
Also



See above.




Wut? You are saying Ventress is inferior to Vowrawn and Xedrix?




All yours have been are.
1. Thanaton's lightning is cooler and therefore better.
2. Downplaying of PT high tiers
3. Wrongly shifting the burden of proof.

I have posted quotes and videos contradicting all your claims.

2 years = Sith peak.



You win more internets, Stark.

http://grizzlybomb.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/neds-head.jpg

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
2 years = Sith peak.



You win more internets, Stark.

http://grizzlybomb.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/neds-head.jpg

I like how you admit that Sidious is stated to be a nexus, and the fact that Dooku has successfully clashed with Yoda in a contest of the force. Sorry but that's above anything Thanaton or Nox has shown.

http://www.ridingthespine.com/gallery/alberta/fullsize/F1000002.JPG

I'm pretty sure Thanaton and Nox could throw some small objects and shoot lightning at Yoda, which is the extent that he and Dooku "clashed" in AotC.

I actually just picked out that one thing and furiously scrolled down to say something snarky, while going through four goddamn gifs before finding a still that would host. Google image search fails hard.

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lw8u1ukFXT1r5td0ko1_500.jpg

Originally posted by Nephthys
I'm pretty sure Thanaton and Nox could throw some small objects and shoot lightning at Yoda, which is the extent that he and Dooku "clashed" in AotC.

Not referring to that.

"Yoda's green blade caught the blow, holding the red lightsaber at bay, locking the two in a contest of strength, physical and of the Force."

I don't see the impressiveness there. That Dooku wasn't instantly overwhelmed? Give him a cookie, he wasn't instantly physically overpowered by a 2 foot tall midget, who was overpowering him anyway. Yoda was going easy on him anyway, considering Yoda overpowered Sidious in a saber lock, the man who held off Savage Opress with one hand.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I don't see the impressiveness there. That Dooku wasn't instantly overwhelmed? Give him a cookie, he wasn't instantly physically overpowered by a 2 foot tall midget, who was overpowering him anyway. Yoda was going easy on him anyway, considering Yoda overpowered Sidious in a saber lock, the man who held off Savage Opress with one hand.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I don't see the impressiveness there. That Dooku wasn't instantly overwhelmed? Give him a cookie, he wasn't instantly physically overpowered by a 2 foot tall midget, who was overpowering him anyway. Yoda was going easy on him anyway, considering Yoda overpowered Sidious in a saber lock, the man who held off Savage Opress with one hand.

Uh, right after that Yoda commends his bladework. And that two foot tall Midget is the most powerful Jedi the galaxy has ever known so yes its impressive. Especially when his equal lol blitzes the Order's finest (and yes Dark Council members wouldn't last any differently against him). Yoda would low-diff most if not all of the Dark Council.

No, he wouldn't, because he wouldn't.

#kmclogic.

I thought we were discussing Dooku's Force abilities, not his lightsaber skills. This discussion is meant to be about whether Nox can overpower Dooku in the Force, not whether he can beat him in a lightsaber fight. Dooku obviously holds the advantage there.

So what I meant was, I don't see how that's impressive in terms of Dooku's Force capabilities.

Plus, as I said Yoda was going easy on him in the saberlock, wanting to quip with him for a bit.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
No, he wouldn't, because he wouldn't.

#kmclogic.

Vitiate makes it plenty clear that the gap between the Dark Council and himself is sizable.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I thought we were discussing Dooku's Force abilities, not his lightsaber skills. This discussion is meant to be about whether Nox can overpower Dooku in the Force, not whether he can beat him in a lightsaber fight. Dooku obviously holds the advantage there.

So what I meant was, I don't see how that's impressive in terms of Dooku's Force capabilities.

Plus, as I said Yoda was going easy on him in the saberlock, wanting to quip with him for a bit.

They are directly correlated. Nox isn't getting through Dooku's defences on force power alone.

Lightsaber-related abilities =/= Force-related abilities.

Nox would overwhelm Dooku with lightning.

Team 1 should win this. As Lord Stark has already pointed out Dooku has stomped characters like Ventress and Sora Bulq, both of whom I'd place on a tier similar to Thanaton. And Anakin seems to have an advantage over the Wrath.

Why would you put Bulq on a similar level to Thanaton? Sure, with lightsabers, but not the Force.

With Ventress, Dooku can't stomp her like he did on Vjun in actual combat.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Why would you put Bulq on a similar level to Thanaton? Sure, with lightsabers, but not the Force.

With Ventress, Dooku can't stomp her like he did on Vjun in actual combat.

Bulq is superior to Thanaton in sabers and inferior in the force. Superior duelist defeats superior force user excellent

Yeah but we're discussing Force abilities still.

Didn't Dooku stomp Bulq with lightning?

Originally posted by Nephthys
Why would you put Bulq on a similar level to Thanaton? Sure, with lightsabers, but not the Force.

Bulq knows and helped devlop Vaapad. I'd put him well beyond Thanaton is sabers. Overall, I'd say they are a fairly similar level.

Originally posted by Nephthys
With Ventress, Dooku can't stomp her like he did on Vjun in actual combat.

He stomped her with lightning in his duel against her and the nightsisters.

She was caught off guard and with her lightsaber above her head and unable to block the lightning. She assumed he was down.

Just as Thanaton was caught of guard by Nox's initial TK assault.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Yeah but we're discussing Force abilities still.

Didn't Dooku stomp Bulq with lightning?


Truth, but that was before Bulq completed his Vaapad by succumbing to the Dark Side.

I feel as though Dooku's lightning is being very much lowballed in this thread, so I'll post some of his FL feats.


In the cut scene (at about 7:31) Dooku's lightning blasts through metal, ripping a huge metal tank from a platform in which it had supported.
_1ieRQ-4BB4


The impact of Dooku's redirected lightning causes a pretty good size explosion (about 3:28).
BvnwLLXHabg


While drugged and blind, Dooku overpowers Ventress and two nightsister simultaneously with lightning (about 3:09).
l6s6lHLJBvE


With a single blast of lightning, coming from just one hand, Dooku Knocks Sora bulq unconscious instantly.
http://img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090923053529/starwars/images/4/40/Missiontobakura.jpg


Dooku generates a lightning storm, which killed a group of Kiffar warriors.
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/4/48954/2151170-new_picture__9_.jpg


Blasting apart metal structures, KO'ing other force users instantly with single blasts, causing explosions, overpowering multiple force users at once, wiping out small armies of warriors with lightning storms, etc...why is Dooku's usage of lightning being downplayed? Not only is Dooku's lightning very potent, but he's also shown to be very refined with this ability. And that's just his lightning feats alone, not even touching on his TK or saber ability, both of which he also excels at.

Sidious lightning is far more intense than Dooku's, yes, but that's irrelevant, considering that the lightning feats that Neph listed for both Nox and the wrath are not beyond Dooku's lightning feats; in fact, they seem quite comparable in that area.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
I feel as though Dooku's lightning is being very much lowballed in this thread, so I'll post some of his FL feats.


In the cut scene (at about 7:31) Dooku's lightning blasts through metal, ripping a huge metal tank from a platform in which it had supported.
_1ieRQ-4BB4

I'm not even certain that's Dooku's lightning. Watching the video, as soon as the light in the center of the platform appears, lightning starts spiraling around the platform independently of Dooku. And the tank does not blow up, theres some minor explosions and it falls.

Besides which, this is something that Thanaton performed 40 years before TOR, clearly well before his prime.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
The impact of Dooku's redirected lightning causes a pretty good size explosion (about 3:28).
BvnwLLXHabg

Not nearly as large as the one Nox created here:

6DYYl9G9nds

3.20.

Which is before Nox gains the power of 5 other Force Masters.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
While drugged and blind, Dooku overpowers Ventress and two nightsister simultaneously with lightning (about 3:09).
l6s6lHLJBvE

I gave my opinion on that on the last page. Dooku does not overpower them at all, he catches Ventress with her lightsaber out of position and off guard.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
With a single blast of lightning, coming from just one hand, Dooku Knocks Sora bulq unconscious instantly.
http://img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090923053529/starwars/images/4/40/Missiontobakura.jpg

Decent.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Dooku generates a lightning storm, which killed a group of Kiffar warriors.
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/4/48954/2151170-new_picture__9_.jpg

Your definition of lightning storm differs significantly from mine. All I see is standard Force Lightning. Which again is merely decent.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Blasting apart metal structures, KO'ing other force users instantly with single blasts, causing explosions, overpowering multiple force users at once, wiping out small armies of warriors with lightning storms, etc...why is Dooku's usage of lightning being downplayed? Not only is Dooku's lightning very potent, but he's also shown to be very refined with this ability. And that's just his lightning feats alone, not even touching on his TK or saber ability, both of which he also excels at.

Sidious lightning is far more intense than Dooku's, yes, but that's irrelevant, considering that the lightning feats that Neph listed for both Nox and the wrath are not beyond Dooku's lightning feats; in fact, they seem quite comparable in that area.

Nox's lightning is far above Dooku's.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
I feel as though Dooku's lightning is being very much lowballed in this thread, so I'll post some of his FL feats.


In the cut scene (at about 7:31) Dooku's lightning blasts through metal, ripping a huge metal tank from a platform in which it had supported.
_1ieRQ-4BB4


The impact of Dooku's redirected lightning causes a pretty good size explosion (about 3:28).
BvnwLLXHabg


While drugged and blind, Dooku overpowers Ventress and two nightsister simultaneously with lightning (about 3:09).
l6s6lHLJBvE


With a single blast of lightning, coming from just one hand, Dooku Knocks Sora bulq unconscious instantly.
http://img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090923053529/starwars/images/4/40/Missiontobakura.jpg


Dooku generates a lightning storm, which killed a group of Kiffar warriors.
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/4/48954/2151170-new_picture__9_.jpg


Blasting apart metal structures, KO'ing other force users instantly with single blasts, causing explosions, overpowering multiple force users at once, wiping out small armies of warriors with lightning storms, etc...why is Dooku's usage of lightning being downplayed? Not only is Dooku's lightning very potent, but he's also shown to be very refined with this ability. And that's just his lightning feats alone, not even touching on his TK or saber ability, both of which he also excels at.

Sidious lightning is far more intense than Dooku's, yes, but that's irrelevant, considering that the lightning feats that Neph listed for both Nox and the wrath are not beyond Dooku's lightning feats; in fact, they seem quite comparable in that area.

Excellent post.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I'm not even certain that's Dooku's lightning.


I'm pretty sure it is.


Originally posted by Nephthys
Watching the video, as soon as the light in the center of the platform appears, lightning starts spiraling around the platform independently of Dooku.


Not sure how light would generate a bunch of lightning, unless it was some rare game mechanic force ability of Dooku's. Dooku was spamming lightning left and right, and it goes to the cut scene right after Kenobi tells him that he can't defeat both of them. Seems like Dooku intentionally destroyed the platform in order to escape. But you might be right, as he did look surprised after the tank tore off.

My question would be where did the light come from, and why did it randomly appear out of nowhere?



Originally posted by Nephthys
And the tank does not blow up, theres some minor explosions and it falls.




The explosion was powerful enough to break off the huge tank, destroying metal.



Originally posted by Nephthys
Besides which, this is something that Thanaton performed 40 years before TOR, clearly well before his prime.


Can you provide the video?

Also, how powerful was his lightning in his prime?



Originally posted by Nephthys
Not nearly as large as the one Nox created here:

6DYYl9G9nds

3.20.


Actually, Dooku's looked larger.



Originally posted by Nephthys
Which is before Nox gains the power of 5 other Force Masters.


How powerful did the masters make her? What are her feats after her gain? Wasn't she defeated by a single weakened force user by that point? Are we to assume that a weakened force equaled 6 force masters, or should we question the amp the masters gave her. That's why I'd like more feats on the matter.



Originally posted by Nephthys
I gave my opinion on that on the last page. Dooku does not overpower them at all, he catches Ventress with her lightsaber out of position and off guard.


He still overpowered them, holding them in the air against their will while electrocuting them. If they weren't overpowered, then they'd had shrugged off the attack as Maul did against Mighella. They didn't have the best defense put up, no, but they all agreed that they were defeated because Dooku was too powerful, not because they were caught off-guard. The feat also showed good precision on Dooku's part.



Originally posted by Nephthys
Your definition of lightning storm differs significantly from mine. All I see is standard Force Lightning. Which again is merely decent.


A lightning storm to me is lightning that covers large areas, capable of taking out entire groups.

What is a lightning storm to you? Do they have to involve clouds like the one Vitiate produced against the four jedi strike team?

I don't care how flashy lightning looks. I go by the damage it can cause. Palpatine's uses of what you refer to as "standard lightning" is some of the most intense displays of lightning in the mythos.


Originally posted by Nephthys
Nox's lightning is far above Dooku's.


Maybe, but you haven't proved it. I went through your respect thread, and I only found two videos with lightning feats. One video had him/her causing an explosion no bigger than the one Dooku caused on Geonosis. The other video had him/her blasting a rock, which you claimed she destroyed, which she really didn't destroy.


Originally posted by Nephthys
Destroys rock again with lightning

XEBwwefSo0U

15.35. This is a bit bigger than that plinth, so notable imo.


Didn't look destroyed to me. Looked exactly the same after she blasted it.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Excellent post.


Thanks.

Have you played the game of the first video I posted? Would you happen to know if it was the result of Dooku's lightning that broke off the large tank?

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Thanks.

Have you played the game of the first video I posted? Would you happen to know if it was the result of Dooku's lightning that broke off the large tank?


Neph's face right now.
http://photos.vanityfair.com/2014/04/14/534b3f1374aafd2e55caafb0_very_first_choke.gif

I don't know, but that seems like the most likely option. I mean why else would they even bother including the lightning effect.

Its closer to this:

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_majtid718C1r3mrdt.gif

I'll reply after dinner.

Also, Dooku's dominance of Ventress by merely lifting his finger was on a nexus. Therefore, it is now no longer valid evidence.

As I said earlier, Dooku wasn't capable of dominating Ventress like that when they actually fought in CW. So its clearly not something he's capable of normally.

Hell, in their fight Dooku barely/didn't manage to overpower Ventress with lightning. Which just shows I'm right about him beating the Nightsisters with it.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
I'm pretty sure it is.

Actually, it isn't.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Not sure how light would generate a bunch of lightning, unless it was some rare game mechanic force ability of Dooku's. Dooku was spamming lightning left and right, and it goes to the cut scene right after Kenobi tells him that he can't defeat both of them. Seems like Dooku intentionally destroyed the platform in order to escape. But you might be right, as he did look surprised after the tank tore off.

My question would be where did the light come from, and why did it randomly appear out of nowhere?

Watch the video at 4.30. Its not just a platform, which is why it has fuel tanks in the first place. It generates lightning when it shoots the beam out of the center of the platform. During the fight in the video Dooku is hit by the beam and damaged, so its obviously not just light, its some sort of energy beam. Whatever the hell the machines are under it seem to be generating the lightning. Possibly from damage? IDK what it is, who cares. So no, its not Dooku's lightning destroying the fuel tanks.


Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Can you provide the video?

Also, how powerful was his lightning in his prime?

http://i57.tinypic.com/1tn48n.jpg

This is Thanaton having a vision of his future self:

http://i59.tinypic.com/dghzde.jpg

In his prime he could one-shot himself with lightning. Thanaton can also create huge lightning storms, fly with lightning and create a maelstrom of swirling Force energy and lightning powerful to crack the ground from the sheer force of it striking Nox. Prime Thanaton is referred to as a 'supremely powerful Sith'.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Actually, Dooku's looked larger.

Well, I disagree. That pillar it strikes is rather large, if you look at the cutscene fully, nearly twice as tall as Khem by my reckoning.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
How powerful did the masters make her? What are her feats after her gain? Wasn't she defeated by a single weakened force user by that point? Are we to assume that a weakened force equaled 6 force masters, or should we question the amp the masters gave her. That's why I'd like more feats on the matter.

Nox wields the "combined power" of herself, 4 Sith Lords and one Voss Mystic (about on par with a powerful Sith Lord). So its a pretty freaking size-able boost.

For a comparison, even with two Sith Lords bound to her, Thanaton still one-shot Nox at the start of Act 2. By the end of the game where Nox wields the combined power of 6 Sith Lords, Nox 'utterly destroys' him in a humiliating duel.

No, she wasn't beaten by a weakened force user. What do you mean?

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
He still overpowered them, holding them in the air against their will while electrocuting them. If they weren't overpowered, then they'd had shrugged off the attack as Maul did against Mighella. They didn't have the best defense put up, no, but they all agreed that they were defeated because Dooku was too powerful, not because they were caught off-guard. The feat also showed good precision on Dooku's part.

Um, its pretty hard to try to resist when you're already being electrocuted. Force Lightning is incredibly painful and debilitating, the Nightsisters wouldn't be capable of forming a defense. And even then, its not known if the Nightsisters actually know how to defend against lightning. So perhaps they agreed they were defeated because they had no way to resist Dooku's lightning.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
A lightning storm to me is lightning that covers large areas, capable of taking out entire groups.

What is a lightning storm to you? Do they have to involve clouds like the one Vitiate produced against the four jedi strike team?

I don't care how flashy lightning looks. I go by the damage it can cause. Palpatine's uses of what you refer to as "standard lightning" is some of the most intense displays of lightning in the mythos.

Its something like this:

DlMUvjP4MM8

7.50. Thats Thanaton btw, the Sith Nox pwned.

Dooku's lightning didn't cover that large of an area. He took out 4 people standing right next to each other? Yeah, not that large. Its not a lightning storm.

Palpatines lightning might be powerful, yeah. But if its just a mid-sized blast from his hand its not a Lightning Storm either. I'm not saying Palpatine can't do a lightning storm, he can, but he often goes for something more focused than that.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Maybe, but you haven't proved it. I went through your respect thread, and I only found two videos with lightning feats. One video had him/her causing an explosion no bigger than the one Dooku caused on Geonosis. The other video had him/her blasting a rock, which you claimed she destroyed, which she really didn't destroy.

Theres also her destroying a rock on Alderaan. All of which done without the aid of 5 powerful Force spirits. Nox's base lightning already surpasses Dooku's. With the extra power from 5 Force spirits, Nox will blow Dooku away entirely.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Didn't look destroyed to me. Looked exactly the same after she blasted it.

Well then you're obviously not looking. The entire top half was obliterated, everything upwards of the crossed arms. Which is a sizable chunk of rock, estimated at about the size of a car. If you look earlier in the video, say from 15.15 onwards, you can see it in comparison to the Nox's size.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Hell, in their fight Dooku barely/didn't manage to overpower Ventress with lightning. Which just shows I'm right about him beating the Nightsisters with it.


You need to rewatch. Dooku disarms her with TK then drops her with lightning. Ventress is fast and agile enough to hold him off for a bit in sabers, but once he focuses his powers on her, she's just as defenseless as Kenobi is.



Originally posted by Nephthys
Possibly from damage? IDK what it is, who cares.


lol

What do you mean "who cares?" I care, of course. It's crucial to my argument. For all I know, it could have been some lightning technique. I don't see how it would be damaged, unless Dooku's lightning is strong enough to damage it, as the platform doesn't look like it was built to be easily damaged. Furthermore, the light didn't appear until they were away from it. But as of now, I'll drop this until I'm able to find out more on it.


#conceded (for now)




Originally posted by Nephthys
http://i57.tinypic.com/1tn48n.jpg


How did it look before and after? I just see an explosion that looks pretty damaging, but can't quite tell how damaging. Did it explode? TOR comics, right? Can I get the issue #?



Originally posted by Nephthys
This is Thanaton having a vision of his future self:

http://i59.tinypic.com/dghzde.jpg

In his prime he could one-shot himself with lightning.


Visions are often very vague and symbolic. The vision could have been an exaggerated way of telling him that he'd become more powerful than he already is. Furthermore, as you said with Ventress and the nightsisters, he doesn't even look like he attempted to block it or fight back. He didn't even look like he expected it.

In the same way you say prime Thanaton can one-shot himself, I can just as easily say Sidious can one-shot Yoda. Actually my claim can come easier given that it actually happened, was not a vision, and considering Yoda was actually there to fight and attempted to block the attack with one hand. Would you agree to that?



Originally posted by Nephthys
Prime Thanaton is referred to as a 'supremely powerful Sith'.


Dooku's lightning was capable of putting Savage down, causing Savage extreme pain. Considering that Savage's body can tank multiple blaster bolts at once without causing him much pain, I'd say that would mean Dooku's lightning is quite intense. Also, Dooku was referred to as "one of the most power jedi in the orders 25,000 history, and an even more powerful sith lord."

Even if Thanaton has the edge in lightning, there are other areas to cover, such as TK and saber ability. And I don't see Thanaton winning with lightning alone. If Kenobi can block lightning powerful enough to cause explosions, then Dooku should logically be capable of blocking far greater lightning, considering he is far stronger and a much more powerful force user than Kenobi, is an expert on that field, and has more ways in which to block lightning.



Originally posted by Nephthys
Well, I disagree.


I checked again and it did appear to be bigger, but it also happened closer, and the lightning was more prolonged. Even after the blast was shown to us, the lightning was still being fired. Dooku's redirected attack was short, and it blasted the ceiling which was pretty high up.



Originally posted by Nephthys
Nox wields the "combined power" of herself, 4 Sith Lords and one Voss Mystic (about on par with a powerful Sith Lord). So its a pretty freaking size-able boost.


How does the boost manifest itself, though?



Originally posted by Nephthys
For a comparison, even with two Sith Lords bound to her, Thanaton still one-shot Nox at the start of Act 2. By the end of the game where Nox wields the combined power of 6 Sith Lords, Nox 'utterly destroys' him in a humiliating duel.


So Thanaton is capable of taking her out with one-shot even with two sith lords bound to her, but with all six sith lords, she's capable of humiliating him in a duel. It sounds similar to Dooku being able to one-shot Anakin in AOTC to being humiliated by him in a duel in ROTS when Anakin taps into more of his potential and after getting angry/tapping into the dark side and increasing his physicality to such an extent that Dooku can't handle.

How good was Thanaton with a saber? Would you place him on Dooku's level in that area. My point is, just because the few extra sith lords gave her enough power to handle Thanaton's power in order close the gap and defeat Thanaton in a duel doesn't necessarily mean it would give her an edge over Dooku in a saber duel, unless Thanaton rivals Dooku in sabers, otherwise that would be ABC logic. And I think you'd be hard pressed to prove that just anyone is on par with one of the most skilled duelist in galactic history. Dooku outdueled Ventress and two other nightsisters while drugged and blind, and has dominated both Anakin and Kenobi at the same time in their duel in season 6, even treating Kenobi as a non-factor.




Originally posted by Nephthys
No, she wasn't beaten by a weakened force user. What do you mean?


Who defeated her then? I thought I read someone argue that some jedi defeated her while injured or weakened. It was some jedi who was being compared to Yoda.



Originally posted by Nephthys
Nightsisters wouldn't be capable of forming a defense. And even then, its not known if the Nightsisters actually know how to defend against lightning. So perhaps they agreed they were defeated because they had no way to resist Dooku's lightning.


Doubt it. Nightsisters specialize in various forms of FL. Talzin referred to the two nightsister who accompanied Ventress as some of the greatest warriors of her clan. You'd think force using warrior witches would know of a defense against force powers that witches specialize in. Remember: nightsisters are all witches.

Regardless, force using warriors naturally have resistance to force attacks, otherwise they'd be demolished. No ordinary human/humanoid can tank energy attacks capable of causing explosions without being severely injured, unless they have the durability to take it, and durability is something the force provides.

It's like saying the jedi who were incapable of defending against Vitiate's lightning weren't overpowered. Some of the jedi didn't even attempt to block Vitiate's attack with their saber, IIRC. Were they not overpowered? Perhaps Vitiate's attack was too fast for some of them to defend against, as Dooku's was against Ventress and her team.



Originally posted by Nephthys
Its something like this:

DlMUvjP4MM8

7.50.


Ok, so he can summon lightning from the sky. Sedriss (Palpatine's adept) can do that, and he's not nearly as powerful as Dooku. Who cares where the lightning comes from?



Originally posted by Nephthys
Thats Thanaton btw, the Sith Nox pwned.


In a saber duel, right?


Originally posted by Nephthys
Dooku's lightning didn't cover that large of an area. He took out 4 people standing right next to each other?


Dooku can still spread his lightning to target more than one person. There were more warriors than what was shown in that single panel, and they weren't exactly hugging each other.


Originally posted by Nephthys
Palpatines lightning might be powerful, yeah. But if its just a mid-sized blast from his hand its not a Lightning Storm either.


Again, what difference does it make? If Sidious can spread his lightning to wipe out a room full of storm troopers, then I consider that a storm of lightning, regardless of whether it comes from his hands or not. Palpatine's mid-sized blasts of lightning are some of the most potent we see, which is what matters most when comparing lightning's potency.



Originally posted by Nephthys
Theres also her destroying a rock on Alderaan.


I'd say if Dooku can produce enough energy to cause an explosion from just one hand, then he can destroy a rock. I find it more impressive that Dooku can knock Sora unconscious with a single blast of lightning (using one hand) than I do Nox destroying a rock, especially considering it required no effort from Dooku.


Originally posted by Nephthys
With the extra power from 5 Force spirits, Nox will blow Dooku away entirely.


What, she's going to blast him away with lightning? He has no defense against lightning? I mean, he did casually block his own lightning attack (which was intense enough to cause an explosion) with one hand. I'm pretty sure with more effort he can defend against a more powerful attack. Since you haven't provided how powerful her lightning increased with the boost, I'm not going to assume she'll just blow Dooku away.



Originally posted by Nephthys
Well then you're obviously not looking.


Yeah, I see it now. Maybe it's because the explosion didn't show any rubble or debris. It just looked like a blast that quickly vanished. But looking at it again, the top part did vanish with the blast, almost as if it teleported rather than blow up. The visuals to these cutscenes are terrible.

Nox didn't defeat Thanaton in a lightsaber duel, she pwned him with the Force:

J3VCiF3OhCE

4.53.

Feats for Thanaton in terms Force strength?

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Feats for Thanaton in terms Force strength?

Play the game, troll.

It's really sad that most members have turned into trolls here.

Neph, when you said she defeated him in a humiliating duel, I thought you meant she dominated him in sabers.

I'll look more into your respect thread before I continue to debate these characters. I just wanted to call out the lowballing.

Thats fair.

I cannot judge this fight as I have no knowledge of the TOR opponents but if they have no feats that match collapsing temples via the force cracking stone with the force of their blows moving so fast they created blurs creating afterimages with their blades then I'd say neither can beat Anakin or Dooku.

Putting Ventress and Bulq on a similar tier to Thanaton is downright hilarious.

Putting Thanaton on a similar tier to Vos is pretty damn hilarious.

You're correct. Because Thanaton would stomp vos

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
You're correct. Because Thanaton would stomp vos

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
You're correct. Because Thanaton would stomp vos
Vos would rip off his testicles then eat them with spaghetti.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
You're correct. Because Thanaton would stomp vos