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The father the daughter and the son VS Anakin, Luke and Yoda

The Ones take this one for sure.

Jedi win.

Originally posted by King Joker
Jedi win.
Care to explain?

Originally posted by King Joker
Jedi win. the ones are the most powerful force users of ALL time

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Care to explain?
Anakin overpowered the son and the daughter, with Luke and Yoda, how wouldn't they win?

Originally posted by Emperordmb
The Ones take this one for sure.

Unless its on Mortis.

Anakin SLAUGHTERHOUSE.

Originally posted by King Joker
Anakin overpowered the son and the daughter, with Luke and Yoda, how wouldn't they win?
Anakin achieved a unique state of oneness to do that. Literally every other time Anakin encountered the Son, the Son pwned him casually.

The Jedi team are fodder compared the Son alone, unless it's prime Anakin.

Anyone on the Ones team solos.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Anakin achieved a unique state of oneness to do that. Literally every other time Anakin encountered the Son, the Son pwned him casually.

So why can't he achieve a "unique state of oneness" here? The only reason why the Son pwned him is because Anakin tried to use his lightsaber. If he uses the force he is far superior to both the Son and the Daughter. While he's dealing with them Luke and Yoda could probably deal with the Father...

Originally posted by King Joker
So why can't he achieve a "unique state of oneness" here? The only reason why the Son pwned him is because Anakin tried to use his lightsaber. If he uses the force he is far superior to both the Son and the Daughter. While he's dealing with them Luke and Yoda could probably deal with the Father...

Originally posted by King Joker
So why can't he achieve a "unique state of oneness" here? The only reason why the Son pwned him is because Anakin tried to use his lightsaber. If he uses the force he is far superior to both the Son and the Daughter. While he's dealing with them Luke and Yoda could probably deal with the Father...
Because Oneness is a very rare once in a life time thing. Also your argument about Anakin getting pwned because of his tactics doesn't hold up even if he could achieve the same state of oneness, as his tactics indicate how he would actually fight.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Because Oneness is a very rare once in a life time thing. Also your argument about Anakin getting pwned because of his tactics doesn't hold up even if he could achieve the same state of oneness, as his tactics indicate how he would actually fight.

How do you know it's a one in a lifetime thing? And if it is The Chosen One could probably replicate it. But, I suppose that's true about the tactics thing, but once he is ridded of his lightsaber why wouldn't he use the force in a pitched battle?

Anakin only performed that feat by tapping into Mortis, unless this fight takes place on Mortis the Jedi have no chance, Oneness or not.

Originally posted by King Joker
How do you know it's a one in a lifetime thing? And if it is The Chosen One could probably replicate it. But, I suppose that's true about the tactics thing, but once he is ridded of his lightsaber why wouldn't he use the force in a pitched battle?
Then how come he has NEVER achieved anywhere near that level of power for the rest of his life?

Also the highest known number of times a single character has entered Oneness was twice. It is something that happens only on extremely rare or specific circumstances.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Unless its on Mortis. This.

The 'material Jedi' only stand a chance against The Ones if this battle just so happens to take place on Mortis--a universal Force Nexus that also amplifies the Force(yes, Mortis acted as an AMPLIFIER of the Force. I can provide proof if needed.)

On neutral ground, however, this is a non-fight.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Then how come he has NEVER achieved anywhere near that level of power for the rest of his life?

Uh... because he has never been on Mortis again in his life...?

Originally posted by King Joker
Uh... because he has never been on Mortis again in his life...?
Yet he does not achieve it at all during the rest of his stay on Mortis. And once again this is a once maybe twice in a lifetime event. It is most likely not repeating itself here.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Yet he does not achieve it at all during the rest of his stay on Mortis. And once again this is a once maybe twice in a lifetime event. It is most likely not repeating itself here.

The opportunity wasn't really presented.

Originally posted by King Joker
The opportunity wasn't really presented.
And the opportunity has never been presented to anybody more than twice in their life time. What makes you think this fight will be different?

Originally posted by Emperordmb
And the opportunity has never been presented to anybody more than twice in their life time. What makes you think this fight will be different?

Because he will have the help of two extremely powerful force users, he's The Chosen One, and it's on Mortis.

The fight is not on Mortis.

How do you know? You're not the OP.

If it's not specified, it means it's on even grounds.

Originally posted by King Joker
Because he will have the help of two extremely powerful force users, he's The Chosen One, and it's on Mortis.
1. Being with other powerful people does not help one achieve Oneness

2. Even though he's the Chosen One, he still never attained oneness more than twice in his life.

3. The OP doesn't specify its location.

4. Even if by some miracle he does attain Oneness, he still has nothing to kill them with, and he would be murdered once the Oneness subsided.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
The fight is not on Mortis. I think I heard KJ lose his boner through my computer.

That might be your dial up modem.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
1. Being with other powerful people does not help one achieve Oneness

2. Even though he's the Chosen One, he still never attained oneness more than twice in his life.

3. The OP doesn't specify its location.

4. Even if by some miracle he does attain Oneness, he still has nothing to kill them with, and he would be murdered once the Oneness subsided.

1. Yeah, but they may be able to achieve "Oneness." And, if I may ask, where are you getting all this "Oneness" info?

2. Because he has been on Mortis once, and the opportunity to achieve this so called "Oneness" has never presented itself other than that one time. I don't see why THE CHOSEN ONE wouldn't be able to achieve "Oneness" more than twice.

3. Of course it's on Mortis, that's where the Ones live. They would utterly stomp if it wasn't on Mortis.

4. It wouldn't be a miracle if The Chosen One attained "Oneness" on Mortis. What do you mean he has nothing to kill them with? Can't he just thrash them about and throw them somewhere. Or break their necks?

He only achieved oneness because he was on Mortis, the most powerful nexus ever.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
He only achieved oneness because he was on Mortis, the most powerful nexus ever.
I'm assuming the fight is on Mortis. It would make 0 sense if it wasn't on Mortis.

It's from PTforthewin...not making any sense is his thing, you know?

I lol'd.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
That might be your dial up modem. Perhaps it was my own boner?

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
It's from PTforthewin...not making any sense is his thing, you know?
That's 100% true

Originally posted by King Joker
1. Yeah, but they may be able to achieve "Oneness." And, if I may ask, where are you getting all this "Oneness" info?

2. Because he has been on Mortis once, and the opportunity to achieve this so called "Oneness" has never presented itself other than that one time. I don't see why THE CHOSEN ONE wouldn't be able to achieve "Oneness" more than twice.

3. Of course it's on Mortis, that's where the Ones live. They would utterly stomp if it wasn't on Mortis.

4. It would be a miracle if The Chosen One attained "Oneness" on Mortis. What do you mean he has nothing to kill them with? Can't he just thrash them about and throw them somewhere. Or break their necks?
1. Any of them being able to achieve Oneness is a gamble of long odds.

2. It is perhaps only because he was the Chosen One that he was able to achieve it twice, as the only other person who achieved it twice took some kind of force steroid. Being the Chosen One also didn't help him achieve it any more than twice in his life.

3. It was not specified in the OP, which implies neutral ground.

4. Yes. Oneness happens extremely rarely, and even with his Chosen One abilities he only attained it twice in his life. Killing the One's isn't nearly as easy as just breaking their necks (Anakin doesn't have the Dagger of Mortis), and even when achieving Oneness it was taking all of his effort just to hold them down.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
1. Any of them being able to achieve Oneness is a gamble of long odds.

2. It is perhaps only because he was the Chosen One that he was able to achieve it twice, as the only other person who achieved it twice took some kind of force steroid. Being the Chosen One also didn't help him achieve it any more than twice in his life.

3. It was not specified in the OP, which implies neutral ground.

4. Yes. Oneness happens extremely rarely, and even with his Chosen One abilities he only attained it twice in his life. Killing the One's isn't nearly as easy as just breaking their necks (Anakin doesn't have the Dagger of Mortis), and even when achieving Oneness it was taking all of his effort just to hold them down.
1. If it's on Mortis, they actually might be able to. And, if I may ask, where are you getting all this "oneness" info?

2. So why can't the Chosen One achieve oneness again, especially on Mortis? And again, he was only on Mortis once, for a relatively short period of time, so he basically can't go into "oneness" if he isn't on Mortis.

3. I'm talking about if the fight was on Mortis, because they would utterly stomp them if it wasn't on Mortis.

4. He achieved "oneness" only twice because he was on Mortis, which is where the fight is taking place (well, in my mind), And its not like "oneness" is a chance occurrence, he can just tap into the planet and achieve it again, and stomp the Son and the Daughter. Who knows, maybe even the Father! And, assuming he can't just break their necks, maybe he can throw them somewhere, or maybe Yoda or Luke can stab them?

Lets say it is on Mortis, and lets even say that Anakin will be able to replicate his feat against the Son and Daughter (Unlikely in the second scenario). The Father will still solo Anakin, and the Son and Daughter will absolutely humiliate Luke and Yoda. Still a godstomp in the favor of the Ones.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Anakin SLAUGHTERHOUSE.

You would think that PT fanboy.

Regardless of him being the Chosen One and visiting Mortis he still only achieved Oneness twice so "He can most likely do it in this fight because Chosen One" is not really a valid argument. Regardless of who one is, Oneness is still an extremely rare thing. Only about ten characters in recorded history have achieved this state, and only two of them achieved it twice. One of them was jumped up on magical force steroids, and Anakin was the other one. Even for being the Chosen One, Anakin has had his share of Oneness in his life. Even on the off chance that it happens to him a third time it would not necessarily be in this fight.

Going of the tangent that Anakin somehow achieves this state here, Anakin while achieving Oneness still took all of his effort just to hold the Son and Daughter down. Without the Dagger of Mortis he is not doing any more than that and he is certainly not going to bring down the Father at the same time. The Father is easily beyond Luke and Yoda's level and with his ability to deactivate lightsabers, they certainly wouldn't be able to strike the Son or Daughter with them and they also wouldn't be able to use their lightsabers against him. The Father could certainly handle Luke and Yoda in a force match. Going back to Anakin's struggle with the Son and Daughter, he could do little more than subdue them until his Oneness subsides at which point they will ****ing murder him.

The Jedi SLAUGHTERHOUSE.

Originally posted by carthage
The Jedi SLAUGHTERHOUSE.

The Ones can destroy the Universe, I really don't see why people put them in vs. debates.

I'd even wager to say the ones solo the entire Jedi or Sith Order of any era.

Originally posted by carthage
You would think that PT fanboy.

NO U NOOB OMFG.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Regardless of him being the Chosen One and visiting Mortis he still only achieved Oneness twice so "He can most likely do it in this fight because Chosen One" is not really a valid argument.

Yes it is, because this fight is on Mortis, where he is able to achieve oneness. When he can stomp the Son and the Daughter.

Regardless of who one is, Oneness is still an extremely rare thing. Only about ten characters in recorded history have achieved this state, and only two of them achieved it twice. One of them was jumped up on magical force steroids, and Anakin was the other one. Even for being the Chosen One, Anakin has had his share of Oneness in his life. Even on the off chance that it happens to him a third time it would not necessarily be in this fight.

If anyone can achieve oneness a third time, the Chosen One on Mortis in a pitched battle without a lightsaber and fighting presumably for his life... can.

Going of the tangent that Anakin somehow achieves this state here, Anakin while achieving Oneness still took all of his effort just to hold the Son and Daughter down. Without the Dagger of Mortis he is not doing any more than that and he is certainly not going to bring down the Father at the same time.
He wasn't even aiming to kill them, he probably could, and if not, remove them from the battlefield.

The Father is easily beyond Luke and Yoda's level and with his ability to deactivate lightsabers, they certainly wouldn't be able to strike the Son or Daughter with them and they also wouldn't be able to use their lightsabers against him.

How is he easily above them, especially both of them together... on Mortis...?

The Father could certainly handle Luke and Yoda in a force match.
Both of them together? I'm not so sure...

Going back to Anakin's struggle with the Son and Daughter, he could do little more than subdue them until his Oneness subsides at which point they will ****ing murder him.

Again, he wasn't aiming to kill them. And who says the oneness subsided? And maybe when he disables them, he can then stab them with his lightsaber...?

Originally posted by Lord Stark
I'd even wager to say the ones solo the entire Jedi or Sith Order of any era.

Nihilus?

Originally posted by Nephthys
Nihilus?

Gets stomped.

Fair point. Malgus would give them a good fight though. Played ball in college, ya know?

According to wookieepedia\The_Ones :



And according to wookieepedia\Abeloth



I think there's a contradiction here. George Lucas said that Luke has the same potential that Anakin has. The Father states that Anakin can become powerful enough to replace him and keep his children in check.

Luke had trouble with Abeloth, a being that beat the Son and Daughter once, but has supposedly lost multiple times to them since then.

Full potential Anakin is able to overpower both of the children.

So it would seem like:

Luke < Abeloth < Son and Daughter < Father <= Anakin == Luke

Where did I mess up?

Originally posted by King Joker
Yes it is, because this fight is on Mortis, where he is able to achieve oneness. When he can stomp the Son and the Daughter.
The OP never specified the location as being on Mortis, you are twisting the context of the fight to suit a certain outcome. And Anakin was clearly exerting himself a lot there, and thus it was taking him a lot of effort to do even in his powered up state.


Originally posted by King Joker
If anyone can achieve oneness a third time, the Chosen One on Mortis in a pitched battle without a lightsaber and fighting presumably for his life... can.
Anakin achieving Oneness a second time was already a result of his Chosen One status, and was the result of the Father setting him up to specifically test his status as the Chosen One. The notion that this can be achieved by him a third time is a little far fetched. As I have previously mentioned numerous times, nowhere does the OP specify Mortis. Even considering that such an event would be possible, an event that rare certainly wouldn't take place for a majority. The Son very clearly does not fear Anakin even after this event, implying that it is not likely to happen again. Hell even after witnessing what Anakin did, Kenobi believes Anakin needs the help of the Daughter to have any chance at stopping the Son.

Originally posted by King Joker
He wasn't even aiming to kill them, he probably could, and if not, remove them from the battlefield.
The task at hand was still taking all of his effort to accomplish, and as I have previously mentioned, he has nothing to mortally wound them with. Two Godly characters who can shift their physical form, grant and strip force sensitivity, and resurrect the dead aren't going to be killed or taken out of the fight by any wounds Anakin can deal them without the Dagger of Mortis.


Originally posted by King Joker
How is he easily above them, especially both of them together... on Mortis...?
Well let's take a look at their respective force powers shall we. The Father demonstrates defensive capabilities beyond either of them by blocking lightsaber blades bare handed with almost casual disdain, and holding off the Son's lightning with the force (which is significantly greater than Sidious's and can destroy mountains). Offensively, the Father has subdued his children with force lightning on one occasion and has hurled both of them a significant distance with telekinesis. Neither of them can touch the Father with their lightsabers, neither can penetrate the Father's force defenses, and the Father has landed considerable blows with the force against characters more powerful than either of his two adversaries.

Originally posted by King Joker
Again, he wasn't aiming to kill them. And who says the oneness subsided? And maybe when he disables them, he can then stab them with his lightsaber...?
Subduing them was still taking all of his effort, drawing his lightsaber while holding them at bay with the force would only be that much more difficult, and if need be the Father could take one second out of his fight to deactivate Anakin's lightsaber. And this is of course assuming a lightsaber could even harm them without the Father sacrificing himself to weaken and distract them.



The notion that the Jedi can win this fight is a little bit far fetched, and the notion that they would actually win a majority is... absurd (I apologize if this isn't very civil but I couldn't find any other way to put it).

I'm not sure why it is so hard to accept that the Ones are far beyond the powers of the Jedi and Sith. Luke even admits them to be on a significantly greater tier than DE Sidious.

Originally posted by red8
According to wookieepedia\The_Ones :



And according to wookieepedia\Abeloth



I think there's a contradiction here. George Lucas said that Luke has the same potential that Anakin has. The Father states that Anakin can become powerful enough to replace him and keep his children in check.

Luke had trouble with Abeloth, a being that beat the Son and Daughter once, but has supposedly lost multiple times to them since then.

Full potential Anakin is able to overpower both of the children.

So it would seem like:

Luke < Abeloth < Son and Daughter < Father <= Anakin == Luke

Where did I mess up?


Lucas as far as I know never said Anakin and Luke had the same potential. He said Luke is as Anakin could have been/ should have been.

Even if so, it doesn't mean Luke's potential was 100% actualized.

^I also don't think realized potential Anakin=Realized potential Luke.


Anakin was conceived by the midi-clorians...Luke should be at around half-3/4ths of Anakin's full potential. So from 1-1.25 Emperor's.

Well, it was stated that full potential Anakin=2x>Palpatine. So even if peak Luke were only HALF as powerful as Anakin could have been(obviously he became greater than that), he'd still be equal to Palps. Lol, craycray.

But no, it has never been explicitly stated that full potential Luke=full potential Anakin. In fact, that wouldn't make any logical sense(even by SW standards)--Anakin, and Anakin alone, was The Chosen One. Not Luke.

^This. I actually wouldn't be opposed to the notion that max power Luke>/= Sidious though.

Wouldnt this fight kind of have to take place on mortis?. since all of the ones feats happen on Mortis which is a massive force nexus How can we judge their power level off it?

Originally posted by Lord Stark
^This. I actually wouldn't be opposed to the notion that max power Luke>/= Sidious though.

Lucas says as much. When he says "The son could become that ," (or whatever the exact wording is) he is talking about surpassing Palpatine.

I don't see it out of the realm of possibility that Luke and Yoda could handle the son and daughter. Luke and kryat were able to handle abeloth (albeit an avatar) and abeloth was able to make the son and daughter kneel before her.

Originally posted by Raptor22
I don't see it out of the realm of possibility that Luke and Yoda could handle the son and daughter. Luke and kryat were able to handle abeloth (albeit an avatar) and abeloth was able to make the son and daughter kneel before her.

You don't see it out of the realm of possibility that immortal force deities can pwn mortal ones? I dunno man, the ones seem to be on a different league than even the top tiers. Only full potential Anakin can surpass them imo.


Although you could make the argument that because Anakin~The Father, Luke~Son and Daughter.

Anakin was only superior to Son/Daughter on Mortis--a universal Nexus that amplified the Force. Without an uber Force Nexus available to tap into, I don't believe that he would have ever become powerful enough to overpower The Ones--full potential be damned. /shrug

^Full potential Anakin should be on par with the Father, Nexus or no imo.

I agree, but FotJ screwed all this up:
Abeloth is 12x the force strength of Luke
The Father is stated to to be the most powerful force user
Lucas states prime Luke=prime Anakin

Therefore, there is no way Prime Anakin can be the most powerful, even though he would be.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
^Full potential Anakin should be on par with the Father, Nexus or no imo. It's possible, I suppose.

Either way, The Ones are on an entirely different level than any other beings throughout the mythos, that's for sure.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
I agree, but FotJ screwed all this up:
Abeloth is 12x the force strength of Luke
The Father is stated to to be the most powerful force user
Lucas states prime Luke=prime Anakin

Therefore, there is no way Prime Anakin can be the most powerful, even though he would be.


Again, I don't think prime Luke=prime Anakin. I just think Prime Luke surpassed Sidious.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
You don't see it out of the realm of possibility that immortal force deities can pwn mortal ones? I dunno man, the ones seem to be on a different league than even the top tiers. Only full potential Anakin can surpass them imo.


Although you could make the argument that because Anakin~The Father, Luke~Son and Daughter. the ones definitely could and most likely would whoop them, but it's not out of the realm of possibility that Luke and yoda could beat the son and daughter. If the fight is on mortis, yoda and especially Luke would be amped pretty substantially. If they fight off Mortis, the son and daughter wouldn't be nearly as powerful as they were on mortis.

Also Abeloth pwned the S&D but Luke and kryat were able to defeat one of her avatars. The question there is what's the power gap between ableoth and her avatars vs the power gap of abeloth and the S&D. I know it's not the greatest comparison but abeloths the only opponent Luke and the S&D have both faced.

Lastly u said only full potential anakin could do that to them but it's been stated Luke could reach that. Add to that the fact that luke has surpassed anakin from that time and anytime for that matter in basicaly every aspect of the force by a large margin. Give him Yoda and it's fairly possible that they could pull it off.

Originally posted by Galan007
Anakin was only superior to Son/Daughter on Mortis--a universal Nexus that amplified the Force. Without an uber Force Nexus available to tap into, I don't believe that he would have ever become powerful enough to overpower The Ones--full potential be damned. /shrug

http://starwars.com/explore/encyclopedia/characters/anakinskywalker/

He had the potential to be the most powerful Force-user ever


The Ones also have access to the Amp available on Mortis. The only explanation to Anakin overpowering them, is on top of being "IN THE ZONE" his superior potential allows him a greater amp on Mortis. But then that still means he has superior potential to the Son adn Daughter. But going by that statement on the official site, it seems he had even greater potential than The Father.

It's pretty evident that Anakin would have equaled or surpassed The Father in time, had he been allowed to achieve his potential.

Either way, though, without that skill, the Jedi are crushed, Anakin included.

On a different tangent, Son could easily solo Anakin at the beginning of the fight by showing him his future.