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Replace Darkseid with Thanos when Orion went postal.

Who wins?

Thanos should

The same Orion who gestured away Superman+Kyle+Flash+Donna like they were fodder?:
http://imgur.com/nM8Oh5K
http://imgur.com/WhtBQnp

Hmm, unsure. mmm

Thanos gets destroyed.

Orion

Originally posted by Galan007
The same Orion who gestured away Superman+Kyle+Flash+Donna like they were fodder?:
http://imgur.com/nM8Oh5K
http://imgur.com/WhtBQnp

Hmm, unsure. mmm

Was Orion amped? I always forget.

Not in that story, no. He was just more berserk/enraged(and substantially so) than we'd ever seen him before--thus he was more powerful by proxy.

On KMC anyone who has trouble with Darkseid is by default 10000xless powerful than Thanos.

Originally posted by Golgo13
Was Orion amped? I always forget.
Was never any hard proof on that. I consider that Orion going mad supersaiyan level.

Originally posted by SamZED
On KMC anyone who has trouble with Darkseid is by default 10000xless powerful than Thanos. Good point.

Thanos wins.

So this is a Super Saiyan battle?

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/9/96464/1958249-1435392_countdown2p12_super.jpg

Vs

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-ceiCxutL-Rk/UpmG11Q1shI/AAAAAAAAeZY/oOybzQwEbPE/s1600/Infinity+006-037.jpg

Heh, can you imagine if comic battles played out like they did in the DBZ anime? A dozen+ consecutive issues featuring nothing but a character powering up, and when said character has finally finished amping, they defeat their opponent in a panel or two.

Oh how awesome that'd be. g007_teehee

Originally posted by Galan007
Heh, can you imagine if comic battles played out like they did in the DBZ anime? A dozen+ consecutive issues featuring nothing but a character powering up, and when said character has finally finished amping, they defeat their opponent in a panel or two.

Oh how awesome that'd be. g007_teehee Hey, shut up. That's not all DBZ was.

And the battles were way better than any comic fights anyway.

I could see Thanos being Freeza while Thor plays Goku.

Thanos (freeza) Beats the shit out of him for awhile Then Thor(Goku) unlocks some ancient power and proceeds to fight for another 10 episodes and have Thanos(Freeza) end up killing himself.

Post-Frieza it got much better, but holy shit I remember being so phucking annoyed watching Goku charge that spirit bomb for episode after episode while Frieza just stood there like a tard w/o noticing a several-mile-wide orb hovering above him that was bright as a sun.

Originally posted by Galan007
Heh, can you imagine if comic battles played out like they did in the DBZ anime? A dozen+ consecutive issues featuring nothing but a character powering up, and when said character has finally finished amping, they defeat their opponent in a panel or two.

Oh how awesome that'd be. g007_teehee
http://cdn.ebaumsworld.com/mediaFiles/picture/1103939/82259395.gif

Comics already feature a dozen or so issues of nothing happening but talk, and then a big deus ex finish.

They would improve dramatically from the worst parts of DBZ

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Comics already feature a dozen or so issues of nothing happening but talk, and then a big deus ex finish.

They would improve dramatically from the worst parts of DBZ

Love Goku

Originally posted by Galan007
The same Orion who gestured away Superman+Kyle+Flash+Donna like they were fodder?:
http://imgur.com/nM8Oh5K
http://imgur.com/WhtBQnp

Hmm, unsure. mmm
Originally posted by Galan007
Not in that story, no. He was just more berserk/enraged(and substantially so) than we'd ever seen him before--thus he was more powerful by proxy.
Eh, Orion was sent by Source in DOTNG to dispatch Darkseid and even after so many inconsistencies, Orion was never that powerful on his own.

^ If you're suggesting that Orion was amped, it'd mean that Darkseid would have also been amped by proxy, due to the 'power-equalization' trait they naturally share as father and son:
http://i.imgur.com/ACOX9Am.jpg
...But we know for sure that Darkseid wasn't amped during Countdown, therefore Orion couldn't have been amped either.


Chalk it up to one of the many inconsistencies found in Countdown.

Originally posted by Galan007
^ If you're suggesting that Orion was amped, it'd mean that Darkseid would have also been amped by proxy, due to the 'power-equalization' trait they naturally share as father and son:
http://i.imgur.com/ACOX9Am.jpg
...But we know for sure that Darkseid wasn't amped during Countdown, therefore Orion couldn't have been amped either.


Chalk it up to one of the many inconsistencies found in Countdown.
That's some faulty reasoning to say in the least. In DOTNG they were amped by the soulfire formula, in Countdown Darkseid had lost the power of new gods when Orion came.

Anyway, he didn't look any stronger than usual. He was matching darkseid in strength while Superman was straight up beating the shit out of him. His energy powers were sure as heck amped.

Faulty reasoning, you say? My friend, I am simply presenting on panel facts--facts presented during DotNG, ironically enough. That said, if Orion would have been amped like you're suggesting, then Darkseid would have been amped as well, thanks to the power-sharing trait they naturally share:
http://i.imgur.com/aj1gXuf.jpg

...But again: Darkseid wasn't amped during Countdown, therefore we know Orion couldn't have been amped either.
_________

Aside from that, hopefully you're aware that DotNG and the main Countdown series really don't like up. At all. none

Example: In the former, we have Darkseid acquiring the cumulative dead New God power by concocting the SoulFire Formula and drinking it. In the latter, we have Darkseid storing all the dead new God power within Jimmy, and trying to extract it from him physically. In the former, Darkseid actually managed to gain nigh-omnipotence. In the latter, he was never able to. That is just one inconsistency of many.

Originally posted by Galan007
Faulty reasoning, you say? My friend, I am simply presenting on panel facts--facts presented during DotNG, ironically enough. That said, if Orion would have been amped like you're suggesting, then Darkseid would have been amped as well, thanks to the power-sharing trait they naturally share:
http://i.imgur.com/aj1gXuf.jpg

...But again: Darkseid wasn't amped during Countdown, therefore we know Orion couldn't have been amped either. But that's Orion's soul which was amped on Soulfire formula. Orion was alive in Countdown.


We've discussed it before galan and I'm not the only one who thought Orion was amped.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=14076304#post14076304

And as explained in Final Crisis, the fights in countdown and DOTNG were just a reflection of the true fight fought in heaven between Darkseid and Orion.

Originally posted by abhilegend
But that's Orion's soul which was amped on Soulfire formula. Orion was alive in Countdown. That really doesn't change what I've said. If Orion would have been amped during Countdown, Darkseid would have been amped during Countdown, due to their power-sharing trait.

The fact that Darkseid wasn't amped confirms that Orion wasn't amped either, imo.

Originally posted by abhilegend
We've discussed it before galan and I'm not the only one who thought Orion was amped.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=14076304#post14076304

And as explained in Final Crisis, the fights in countdown and DOTNG were just a reflection of the true fight fought in heaven between Darkseid and Orion. Yes, and my opinion remains the same: no evidence confirms that Orion was amped during Countdown. If a character is intended to be amped, typically writers go out of their way to make it known to the readers. Nothing to that effect was mentioned for Orion, hence why I am hesitant to agree with you.

It was simply a very high-end showing for Orion... Well above his 'norm'. Almost every herald leveler in comics has stepped outside their tier at some point though, so it shouldn't really be this big of a deal tbh. My guess is that you simply don't want to admit that an unamped Orion can handle Superman so effortlessly. To that I say: get over it.

Shit, Orion has also held his own against a sun-amped Superman in the past. It happens. Doesn't make Superman any less powerful.

Originally posted by Galan007
And? That really doesn't change what I've said. If Orion would have been amped during Countdown, Darkseid would have been amped during Countdown, due to their power-sharing trait. Why? Darkseid had lost the power of new gods at that point. It was Source's power which would've been amping Orion then.

It doesn't. IMO.

Then you'd be showing me Orion casually tossing the ****ing JLA around like toys AT LEAST ONCE in the comic?

Not by that comparison. Heh, putting words in my mouth now? Superman walked through omega beams just one issue prior, one shot of OB and Orion was on the ground. Lulz.

Superman was massively holding back. But yeah, Orion isn't even as impressive as wonder woman if we go by Doomsday Wars.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Why? Darkseid had lost the power of new gods at that point. It was Source's power which would've been amping Orion then. Except for the fact that nothing of the sort was stated, or even alluded to. Furthermore, Countdown Orion acted his normal, berserker self. The Source-amped Orion shown in DotNG, on the other hand, acted much different... He never even uttered a word, or display any sort of emotion. In that regard they were almost entirely different characters.

Like I said, there is simply no definitive proof to suggest that Orion was amped. In fact, all evidence points to the contrary.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Then you'd be showing me Orion casually tossing the ****ing JLA around like toys AT LEAST ONCE in the comic? Lol, on what other occasion has the JLA ever tried to interfere in a battle between a berserker Orion(the most enraged we've ever seen him) and Darkseid?

Exactly.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Not by that comparison. You're right. Many heralds have preformed feats well beyond that(Supes, Surfer and Thor are prime examples.) Orion's feat is mediocre next to some of the shit they've pulled.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Heh, putting words in my mouth now? Superman walked through omega beams just one issue prior, one shot of OB and Orion was on the ground. Lulz. Lol. YOU are the only one who is acting like Superman is somehow being 'attacked' here. You are aware that not every thread must involve him, right?




Must sleep. Will respond to your inevitable post tomorrow.

Originally posted by Galan007
Except for the fact that nothing of the sort was stated, or even alluded to. Really? It was outright stated that Orion's fight with darkseid was just a rflection of a single fight.

http://i593.photobucket.com/albums/tt19/Max_Eisenhardt/random%20scans/Untitled-27.jpg

It was the soul of Orion in DOTNG. How many times that has to be stated?

Haha, sure.

Orion was berserker almost always in JLA. And lol @ "most enraged we've ever seen". He isn't hulk where his power goes up with his anger.

IKR.

Heh, name one time Surfer say came barging in and tore out the heart of a guy Thor was having problems with?

You were the one using Superman as a measuring stick in the first place. Like Orion actually beat Superman there.




Sleep well.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Really? It was outright stated that Orion's fight with darkseid was just a rflection of a single fight.

It was the soul of Orion in DOTNG. How many times that has to be stated? Cool. Now stop avoiding the question and shown me where it is stated that Orion was amped during Countdown #2 specifically.

If you fail to provide said evidence(again), and/or attempt yet another red herring, then I will continue assuming no such evidence exists and that you have absolutely nothing of merit to substantiate your opinion.

Originally posted by abhilegend
He isn't hulk where his power goes up with his anger. Evidently you don't know much about Orion if you believe his berserker mindset is no stronger than his Motherbox-governed mindset.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Heh, name one time Surfer say came barging in and tore out the heart of a guy Thor was having problems with? You're missing the point. Several characters(especially in the herald-class) have stepped beyond that tier. Heck, Thor has multiple trans-level, possibly even Skyfather-level feats... And Supes has feats that are damn near abstract-level.

What I'm saying is: shit like Orion pulled in Countdown happens a lot in comics--it really shouldn't be this big of a deal. In Orion's case specifically, he was prophesized to kill Darkseid--that has always been his destiny... But the fact that you are so bothered by him finally fulfilling said prophecy pleases me to my very core.

Originally posted by abhilegend
You were the one using Superman as a measuring stick in the first place. Like Orion actually beat Superman there. No, I simply pointed out that imo, the only reason you are so adamant that Orion was amped during Countdown is because you don't like the idea that an unamped Orion could dismiss Supes so easily... And I was right, it seems.

Wipe the tears from your eyes and accept it. That feat certainly doesn't make Orion superior to Supes on average.

Thanos

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/Superman/pic005-1.jpg

Originally posted by Galan007
Cool. Now stop avoiding the question and shown me where it is stated that Orion was amped during Countdown #2 specifically. It was explained that the fight in DOTNG and countdown were just a reflection of a fight in a higher plane. If Orion was amped in DOTNG, he was amped in countdown.

Same old debate tactic from you galan. I already provided proof that the fights in DOTNG and Countdown were retconned to be the same fight.

Orion has ditched his motherbox several times, yet never showed such energy powers.

But those don't come compared to another top tier's expense. Have you seen Superman tearing out the heart of a guy captain marvel was struggling against?

What can I say! I was always partial to the story where Superman kills Darkseid!!!!!!!!

Heh, throwing someone away doesn't means much. Doc Samson once threw Hercules, simon, namor and tony off him. I was questioning why you thought Orion was unamped when he was retconned into being amped.

I CAN'T!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You can be so predictable sometimes.

Originally posted by abhilegend
It was explained that the fight in DOTNG and countdown were just a reflection of a fight in a higher plane. If Orion was amped in DOTNG, he was amped in countdown.

Same old debate tactic from you galan. I already provided proof that the fights in DOTNG and Countdown were retconned to be the same fight. So in short: you cannot provide any such evidence. Didn't think so. The fact of the matter is: absolutely nothing from Countdown so much as hinted at Orion being amped. In fact, the notion of him being amped can be further disproven by his overall demeanor: he acted much differently in Countdown(when no amp was alluded to) than he acted during DotNG(when he had a legitimate/stated amp from the Source.) The difference between these two iterations was night and day, in fact.

...And this is all secondary to the point I've been driving home from the start: we know for a fact that Darkseid was NOT amped during Countdown, as he FAILED to glean his amp from Jimmy. Therefore we also know for a fact that Orion was NOT amped during Countdown either. How can I be so certain? Because they, being father/son, naturally SHARE/EQUALIZE amps. This, again, was explicitly stated on panel:

http://i.imgur.com/aj1gXuf.jpg


In summary: if Orion would have been amped, as you're baselessly suggesting, then Darkseid would have undoubtedly been amped as a result. However, Darkseid wasn't amped, thus Orion wasn't amped. Simple is simple.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Orion has ditched his motherbox several times, yet never showed such energy powers. And Superman has only saved the Omniverse once by vibrating, and has only repaired a tear in the fabric of reality with his HV a single time as well. This doesn't mean such feats aren't within his ability. Try to think outside the box with more than just your 'pet' characters, please.

Originally posted by abhilegend
But those don't come compared to another top tier's expense. Have you seen Superman tearing out the heart of a guy captain marvel was struggling against? No, but I have seen him literally SING a being out of existence, of whom the entire MULTIVERSE was 'struggling against'.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Heh, throwing someone away doesn't means much. Doc Samson once threw Hercules, simon, namor and tony off him. I was questioning why you thought Orion was unamped when he was retconned into being amped. ...Except that little blurb from Darkseid was not a 'formal' retcon by any stretch. Formal retcons are NEVER left simply as ambiguous comments that different readers can interpret in different ways. Ever.

Formal retcons are outright stated on panel--and explicitly so. No room for reader-interpretation is left to be had.

__________


Anyway, I've more than proven my point here, and have no further interest in this circular discussion. You may have the last word if you must(I know you desperately crave it.) Good day.

Galan raises some good points about Orion being above Superman. He's swayed me into thinking Superman<<Orion<<Thanos.

Then my work is done.

Me and you might not always see penis eye to brown eye, but when you're focused you can sure without a doubt prove your case. 100 percent correct here.

The problem with focus is that it requires me to give a phuck, and I don't have too many phucks left to give these days. ermm

Scans of your brown eye?

Valid point. I guess you are only talking to Abhi, so focused or not I guess you'd be correct anyhow.

I was thinking I would be the penis eye. No scans though. Much as Abhi, I am completely devoid of proof

Quite the tease these days.

Originally posted by Galan007
So in short: you cannot provide any such evidence. Already did. That can be atrributed to different reflections of the true fight fought in heaven. The simple fact is that Morrison retconned the fight in Final Crisis. You have to deal with it.



I'm not the one denying the blatant truth here.

Repeating yourself again and again doesn't changes anything. You're using the same contradictory nature between DOTNG and Countdown for two things at once here. Darkseid wasn't amped on soulfire formula and neither was Orion in Countdown. Jimmy had nothing to do with new gods power in DOTNG, Darkseid already had the power when he teleported away in DOTNG etc. You CAN'T use DOTNG as any kind of proof for Countdown and yet here you're doing it. SMH.



That's as worthless circular logic as I've ever seen.

You will see Orion doing the same when he was actually present with Superman. Top tiers don't outperform each other by such a margin unless its OWAW or something. I actually like Orion, thank you very much.

And when I suggested it you were the one who went apeshit at the idea.



WTF is a formal retcon? And yes, "formal" retcons have been done in such manner. Remember Reign in Hell and the Lobo clone? It was left ambiguous to when the clone lobo replaced the original Lobo.

Not every writer is Jim Starlin.






You have mistaken me for somebody else then.

Thanos

Orion wins.

Thanos wins.

But I think ripping the heart out of someone as durable as Darkseid is underplayed more then it should be. It's much more impressive then breaking Supermans jaw, or beating on Darkseid until his eyes become swollen shut.

Originally posted by cdtm
Thanos wins.

But I think ripping the heart out of someone as durable as Darkseid is underplayed more then it should be. It's much more impressive then breaking Supermans jaw, or beating on Darkseid until his eyes become swollen shut.
Yeah, its impressive no doubt about it. But Orion was depicted as Darkseid's equal in strength just before that scene.

http://i.imgur.com/8oXkAeL.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/OgiRrux.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/FZjmFFK.jpg

On the other hand Superman has decisively overpowered Darkseid in such a strength standoff.

http://i.imgur.com/qgLXmtX.jpg

Heck he was beating the shit out of Darkseid in the previous comic. So I don't agree with it being more impressive.

Thanos, Orion powers and abilities isn't nothing against a being who is cursed by death whos abilities are amp

Orion solos.

I think Orion won that fight mainly because it was a prophecy.

Death of the New Gods/Countdown/Final Crisis was a continuity mess. No one clearly talked to each other and it showed as they really didn't flow well or matched up

Orion never displayed that level of power in Countdown before, I take it as a amp, but as mentioned doesn't mesh well with Death of the New Gods.

Originally posted by Galan007
YOU are the only one who is acting like Superman is somehow being 'attacked' here. You are aware that not every thread must involve him, right? it's sad and pathetic

Originally posted by Rao Kal El
I think Orion won that fight mainly because it was a prophecy.

Originally posted by -K-M-
Death of the New Gods/Countdown/Final Crisis was a continuity mess. No one clearly talked to each other and it showed as they really didn't flow well or matched up

Orion never displayed that level of power in Countdown before, I take it as a amp, but as mentioned doesn't mesh well with Death of the New Gods.
Originally posted by psycho gundam
it's sad and pathetic
That's your job description.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17


Well they mentioned the fulfillment of a prophecy in in which Orion HAS to kill his father by ripping his heart. so.... it was bound to happen

Thanos and with minor difficulty

Orion

THANOS>>>>>>>>>>Darkseid>>>Orion

Enuf' said