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Takes place on Mustufar

Vader. From throwing ships +20 meter in length, collapsing cathedrals, ripping apart gigantic robots, controlling winds with Alter Environment, inducing fear into imperial officers, communicating with with animals with Beast Control, using Deflection to block lightsabers, using Barrier to block torrents of blaster bolts, using Drain Knowledge on Luke to gain information about Leia, he is just vastly more powerful. More than that, he has physically broken crystalline binders, ripped apart nets, torn off a durasteel door from its hinges, deflected fire from turrets, formed a shield out of his lightsaber, generated afterimages, survived high level voltage nets, survived explosions, survivedg having cathedrals dropped on him etc., he has the physical edge as well. And lastly, he was even with ANH Kenobi, more or less even with Marek, more or less even with Roan Shryne, beat several no name Jedi in groups etc., all several years before he drastically improved his lightsaber skill. He has the dueling edge as well.

Overall, Vader wins very comfortably. He is more powerful, more versatile, more physically capable, and more skillful.

What he said. :3

Krayt pwns.

In terms of lightsabers he gave a good fight to post-RotS Kenobi, well well before his prime. He certainly has the edge in speed, from him blitzing those 4 Imperial Knights in a weakened condition. So I think Krayt holds the advantage in terms of bladework. In terms of the Force Vader has the TK edge but thats it and even then, I don't think Vader is gonna stomp him with it or anything. Krayt was shown tossing around Cade, who could throw starships, pwn Talon and tank a base exploding around him. Krayt holds the advantage in all other areas. His lightning can shatter stone and will pose a significant threat to Vaders armor. He has extremely potent telepathy, able to shake off Wyyrloks assault as well as announce his presence to every Sith in the galaxy. He also has very powerful Force Drain, able to affect Abeloth (and Luke iirc).

Lastly he has his ace in the hole, Dark Transfer which imo would severely **** Vader over. Vader is covered in injuries, which DK would burst and kill Skywalker swiftly with. And since Krayt holds the advantage in speed, he'll be capable of getting in close and putting his hands on Vader to pull it off. Vader has no means of defending himself fro this and it would allow Krayt to defeat him comfortably.

For this fight, a good comparison might be found in their fights against Celeste Morne. Of course, Krayt became much more powerful after that.

Also please is Vader vastly more powerful. Krayt was powerful enough that Luke thought he could serve as his counterpart on the Throne of Balance. Krayt is immensely powerful.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Vader. From throwing ships +20 meter in length, collapsing cathedrals, ripping apart gigantic robots, controlling winds with Alter Environment, inducing fear into imperial officers, communicating with with animals with Beast Control, using Deflection to block lightsabers, using Barrier to block torrents of blaster bolts, using Drain Knowledge on Luke to gain information about Leia, he is just vastly more powerful. More than that, he has physically broken crystalline binders, ripped apart nets, torn off a durasteel door from its hinges, deflected fire from turrets, formed a shield out of his lightsaber, generated afterimages, survived high level voltage nets, survived explosions, survivedg having cathedrals dropped on him etc., he has the physical edge as well. And lastly, he was even with ANH Kenobi, more or less even with Marek, more or less even with Roan Shryne, beat several no name Jedi in groups etc., all several years before he drastically improved his lightsaber skill. He has the dueling edge as well.

Overall, Vader wins very comfortably. He is more powerful, more versatile, more physically capable, and more skillful.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Krayt pwns.

In terms of lightsabers he gave a good fight to post-RotS Kenobi, well well before his prime. He certainly has the edge in speed, from him blitzing those 4 Imperial Knights in a weakened condition. So I think Krayt holds the advantage in terms of bladework. In terms of the Force Vader has the TK edge but thats it and even then, I don't think Vader is gonna stomp him with it or anything. Krayt was shown tossing around Cade, who could throw starships, pwn Talon and tank a base exploding around him. Krayt holds the advantage in all other areas. His lightning can shatter stone and will pose a significant threat to Vaders armor. He has extremely potent telepathy, able to shake off Wyyrloks assault as well as announce his presence to every Sith in the galaxy. He also has very powerful Force Drain, able to affect Abeloth (and Luke iirc).

Lastly he has his ace in the hole, Dark Transfer which imo would severely **** Vader over. Vader is covered in injuries, which DK would burst and kill Skywalker swiftly with. And since Krayt holds the advantage in speed, he'll be capable of getting in close and putting his hands on Vader to pull it off. Vader has no means of defending himself fro this and it would allow Krayt to defeat him comfortably.

For this fight, a good comparison might be found in their fights against Celeste Morne. Of course, Krayt became much more powerful after that.

Also please is Vader vastly more powerful. Krayt was powerful enough that Luke thought he could serve as his counterpart on the Throne of Balance. Krayt is immensely powerful.

Vader was even against Kenobi out of his prime, Krayt lost while having an environmental advantage.

Krayt was faaaaar from his prime too.

How does Vader get around Dark Transfer?

Vader was far from his prime too.

Vader wills himself back from the death like he has before, then backstabs Krayt when he's cleaning his Vong armor for dust.

Slicing his arm off before Krayt can grab him?

Dark Transfer is weak stuff imo. A lightsaber alone is effective enough to kill 99% of people if used properly, and it has the advantages of reach, and not leaving a limb compeltely exposed, over dark transfer.

If you're quick enough to tag someone, you're certainly quick enough to prod them with a stick.

I love Vader as much as the next dude, but I can't see him winning this.

Krayt might be a good match for Kit Fisto, Vader rapes him.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Vader was far from his prime too.

Vader wills himself back from the death like he has before, then backstabs Krayt when he's cleaning his Vong armor for dust.

Which Vader are you talking about? The unstable Vader who fought Kenobi on Mustafar or the Vader who fought Old Ben on the Death Star? Vader refined his technique, but that doesn't equal Krayts boost in power and speed.

Krayt doesn't wear Vong armor anymore and Vader hasn't ever willed himself back from the dead. He willed himself to survive his wounds, but he did not die. Vader isn't coming back after Krayt puts him down.

Originally posted by Astor Ebligis
Slicing his arm off before Krayt can grab him?

Dark Transfer is weak stuff imo. A lightsaber alone is effective enough to kill 99% of people if used properly, and it has the advantages of reach, and not leaving a limb compeltely exposed, over dark transfer.

If you're quick enough to tag someone, you're certainly quick enough to prod them with a stick.

Vader can't do that though.

Duelists find it far easier to strike each other with their fists or feet than they do with a lightsaber though. Countless duels have proven that. All Krayt has to do is lock blades with Vader then grab his arm.

Or Krayt could overpower Vader with lightning in order to get him open to use DK, as he did against Cade.

Talking about ANH Vader.

Kit Fisto takes Krayt.

Okay. Vader refining his lightsaber form doesn't detract from the fact that he's still rather slow and clunky. Krayt would run rings around him with his Jar'Kai and superior speed.

And your initial point is rather lacking. Kenobi was greatly diminished as well in ANH. Vader being even to him isn't even as impressive as Hett giving a good fight to RotS Kenobi.

Refining? Lol. he became vastly more skilled and more powerful as well.

Nope. Hett didn't fight ROTS Kenobi, he fought a Kenobi out of practice with an environmental advantage... and still lost.

Becoming more skilled is that same thing as refining his lightsaber technique, genius. He's still no match for Krayt's speed and lightsaber style.

Lolwut? Luke was still a a baby at the time, it was months after RotS. Kenobi wouldn't be out of practice by that point at all. Vader fought a Kenobi who was faaaaaaar more out of practice than Hett did, and only stalemated him. Also lolwut, environmental advantage? You crack me up sometimes.

Lol. Vader has fought faster than Force users can react as well.

Nope. And unlike the good DP, I don't claim stuff without having the evidence to back it up.

Losers and injured agricultural corps members? Ohhh, so zippy. Krayt blitzed 3 Imperial Knights at once. He's faster than Vader.

You must be so proud. I imagine not being a total ****-up is a big step for you.

Fodder knights.

Did you just imply DP is a **** up?

Q99 has consistently shown that's not the case. Why you keep ignoring that these were the bodyguards of the Emperor, I don't know. Oh wait its obviously just bias and trolling, never mind.

I was complimenting you on being capable of supporting your claims. You should be honored, trash. Though since you haven't actually shown this evidence maybe I spoke too soon.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Krayt pwns.

In terms of lightsabers he gave a good fight to post-RotS Kenobi, well well before his prime. He certainly has the edge in speed, from him blitzing those 4 Imperial Knights in a weakened condition. So I think Krayt holds the advantage in terms of bladework. In terms of the Force Vader has the TK edge but thats it and even then, I don't think Vader is gonna stomp him with it or anything. Krayt was shown tossing around Cade, who could throw starships, pwn Talon and tank a base exploding around him. Krayt holds the advantage in all other areas. His lightning can shatter stone and will pose a significant threat to Vaders armor. He has extremely potent telepathy, able to shake off Wyyrloks assault as well as announce his presence to every Sith in the galaxy. He also has very powerful Force Drain, able to affect Abeloth (and Luke iirc).

Lastly he has his ace in the hole, Dark Transfer which imo would severely **** Vader over. Vader is covered in injuries, which DK would burst and kill Skywalker swiftly with. And since Krayt holds the advantage in speed, he'll be capable of getting in close and putting his hands on Vader to pull it off. Vader has no means of defending himself fro this and it would allow Krayt to defeat him comfortably.

For this fight, a good comparison might be found in their fights against Celeste Morne. Of course, Krayt became much more powerful after that.

Also please is Vader vastly more powerful. Krayt was powerful enough that Luke thought he could serve as his counterpart on the Throne of Balance. Krayt is immensely powerful.


Krayt is not that ahead of Vader in terms of saber ability. Vader beat Celeste fairly easy in his early years as Palpatine's apprentice, while still very new to his suit. In comparison, Krayt didn't do better against the same opponent despite his years and experience as a sith. Certainly if Krayt was much faster than Vader on account of blitzing featless knights, his performance against Moorne should have be better than Vader's, which it wasn't.

The notion that Krayt pwns is silly. Krayt's power boost after his resurrection is unknown, as he didn't do anything much more impressive than before his resurrection. In fact, his power boost didn't even put him far ahead of Wyyrlok, as they were pretty much equals in their force duel. Actually, When Wyyrlok put Krayt in a trance, he could have even possibly killed Krayt had not been giving such a long speech.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Q99 has consistently shown that's not the case. Why you keep ignoring that these were the bodyguards of the Emperor, I don't know. Oh wait its obviously just bias and trolling, never mind.

I was complimenting you on being capable of supporting your claims. You should be honored, trash. Though since you haven't actually shown this evidence maybe I spoke too soon.
Blitzing three Sha'Gi's put Krayt ahead of Vader now? Lmao.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Krayt is not that ahead of Vader in terms of saber ability. Vader beat Celeste fairly easy in his early years as Palpatine's apprentice, while still very new to his suit. In comparison, Krayt didn't do better against the same opponent despite his years and experience as a sith. Certainly if Krayt was much faster than Vader on account of blitzing featless knights, his performance against Moorne should have be better than Vader's, which it wasn't.

The notion that Krayt pwns is silly. Krayt's power boost after his resurrection is unknown, as he didn't do anything much more impressive than before his resurrection. In fact, his power boost didn't even put him far ahead of Wyyrlok, as they were pretty much equals in their force duel. Actually, When Wyyrlok put Krayt in a trance, he could have even possibly killed Krayt had not been giving such a long speech.

Celeste Morne was tapping into Muur's power to fight Krayt (and was still losing) as he senses:

http://media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/85/7e/36/857e3647fc52cfa75c5925aa84f26f0f.jpg

She wasn't doing the same vs Vader and was in fact being actively distracted by Muur during her fight. Besides, wasn't Krayt weakening from the Vong growths at that time?

No, Wyyrlok couldn't. Krayt states clearly that it wasn't Wyyrloks trap, it was his:

http://i55.servimg.com/u/f55/17/73/92/12/star_w14.jpg

http://i55.servimg.com/u/f55/17/73/92/12/star_w15.jpg

Its then revealed that Krayt has his lightsabers (where he didn't on the last page) and is sticking them through Wyyrlok's chest. So either Krayt was quick enough to pick up, activate and bury his lightsabers into Wyyrlok before Wyyrlok could twitch in response, or Krayt was actually fooling him with an illusion and killed him while Wyyrlok thought he had the upper hand.

Vader takes this with his superior strength durability and endurance while having comparable speed and much better TK and force feats in general.

If it is proof you seek, it is proof I shall deliliver.



And again.



Kenobi only kept up his reflexes, but his overall ability as a duelist had decreased significantly.

Nice Intrep.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
If it is proof you seek, it is proof I shall deliliver.



And again.



Kenobi only kept up his reflexes, but his overall ability as a duelist had decreased significantly.

That doesn't say how long it had actually been since Obi-Wan had used a lightsaber. It was still shortly after RotS.

The advantage of the desert is negligible.

Originally posted by Nephthys
That doesn't say how long it had actually been since Obi-Wan had used a lightsaber. It was still shortly after RotS.

The advantage of the desert is negligible.
How long it had been is irrelevant when it had an impact.

Nope, it clear says that Hett's advantage was considerable.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
How long it had been is irrelevant when it had an impact.

Nope, it clear says that Hett's advantage was considerable.

It doesn't say that it had an impact.

No it doesn't.

Did you read the quote? It clearly states both.

Did you even read the excerpts? Kenobi has thoughts about all of his disadvantages during the fight, one of them being his lack of lightsaber practice.

Take your head out of your ass. The text says that Hett was ''far'' more accustomed to fighting in the sand. Put a Lion in shallow water and a crocodile is going to **** it up since it has a considerable terrain advantage.

Hett lost to Aurra Sing for christs sake.

He did? 0-0 Wow...

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Did you even read the excerpts? Kenobi has thoughts about all of his disadvantages during the fight, one of them being his lack of lightsaber practice.

Take your head out of your ass. The text says that Hett was ''far'' more accustomed to fighting in the sand. Put a Lion in shallow water and a crocodile is going to **** it up since it has a considerable terrain advantage.

Hett lost to Aurra Sing for christs sake.

No, he just didn't think about how long it had been since he'd used a lightsaber. That doesn't indicate it had an impact on him, lol.

And Hett was far more accustomed, as it says. What it does not say is that Hett being far more accustomed gave him a considerable advantage.

Wtf, Hett beat Sing you liar.

Uh, yes it does. Prior to that, Kenobi says it was ''fortunate'' that he had not allowed his reflexed to become dull, because if he had, it would have been another disadvantage.

My analogy works.

Take a Lion that hasn't been in combat for a long time and is past its prime in terms of age and pit it against a crocodile in shallow water where the croc has a considerable terrain advantage... it's going to get messy for the Lion.

Yes he did. I never lie.

Neph I think you are blatantly ignoring his posts. 0-o It clearly states that Obi Wan had lost some dueling skill and Hett had the advantage...

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Uh, yes it does. Prior to that, Kenobi says it was ''fortunate'' that he had not allowed his reflexed to become dull, because if he had, it would have been another disadvantage.

My analogy works.

Take a Lion that hasn't been in combat for a long time and is past its prime in terms of age and pit it against a crocodile in shallow water where the croc has a considerable terrain advantage... it's going to get messy for the Lion.

Yes he did. I never lie.

Still not seeing anything suggesting Kenobi not using a lightsaber for like one ****ing year had an impact on his dueling abilities.

Lmao, 'a long time'. Sure. The fact that Kenobi was older than Hett doesn't matter since as I've been saying, this is a year if that after RotS. Bane didn't freaking degenerate that fast after having the orbalisks ripped of him. How the hell could less than one year be in any way significant to Kenobi's dueling abilities?

In any case, you're ignoring one key point. Any loss of ability on Kenobi's part would be TEN TIMES what it was vs Hett in ANH. Thanks for playing.

Still not seeing how the desert is that big of a deal. Your analogy is dumb, because being knee deep in water is waaaay more significant than just being on some sand and it being hot.

A lion in water is more significant than Kenobi fighting in an environment that ''far'' favors his opponent because Nephthys says so. Lmfao.

We can use the analogy with tigers instead of lions. Unlike lions, tigers enjoy water, but the crocodile is still more dangerous in it than the tiger is. Thus, it still has a considerable advantage.

He still lost to Sing.

The quote he gave specifically says that Obi Wan was not as skilled and it doesn't matter whether it was an hour or a decade when he lost skill it matters that he lost it. Also what suggests that it HADN'T been for more then one year?

Luke was still a baby iirc.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
A lion in water is more significant than Kenobi fighting in an environment that ''far'' favors his opponent because Nephthys says so. Lmfao.

We can use the analogy with tigers instead of lions. Unlike lions, tigers enjoy water, but the crocodile is still more dangerous in it than the tiger is. Thus, it still has a considerable advantage.

He still lost to Sing.

You're obviously trolling me, but if I must explain to you why having to push your legs through water is more of a significant disadvantage than sand then I will. Oh wait I just did. You've never tried to run through water? Its freaking hard. It significantly hampers your mobility unlike sand.

He beat Sing, dingdong.

You missed that those animals are vastly stronger and more powerful than you are. And tigers enjoy water.

Through a cheap shot. She beat her initially and was very obviously the better fighter.

You mean just like how Obi-Wan has abilities and training to condensate for any impaired ability fighting on loose sand? Tigers enjoy water, they don't fight it. Crocodiles evolved to be able to quickly strike through the water and can move in it far far easier than tigers can.

Nah.

I don't know about Sing all I know is Vader stomps Krayt via better dueling and force feats.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Celeste Morne was tapping into Muur's power to fight Krayt (and was still losing) as he senses:


Not the entire duel. In fact, during part of the duel, Muur was trying to convince her to let him take over, and she was trying to fight off Murrs temptation, while holding her own against Krayt.



Originally posted by Nephthys
She wasn't doing the same vs Vader and was in fact being actively distracted by Muur during her fight.


She was being distracted by him during her duel with Krayt as well. And she did tap into the talisman during her duel with Vader. That's how she turned his troops into rakghouls.


Originally posted by Nephthys
Besides, wasn't Krayt weakening from the Vong growths at that time?


I think he was handling the Vong growths better than when he faced the four IKs, which makes me question how good the knights were. If blitzing knights puts him above Vader in terms of speed, then he'd had done much better against Celeste, which he didn't. Plus, as I said, Vader was still fairly early in his years as a sith during his fight with Moorne. And considering Krayt didn't show much improvement after his resurrection, then I don't see how he is better than peak Vader.


Originally posted by Nephthys
No, Wyyrlok couldn't. Krayt states clearly that it wasn't Wyyrloks trap, it was his:


Perhaps Krayt knew Wyyrlok would underestimate him, and Krayt pretended to be weaker than he actually was.

Are you seriously suggesting that Wyyrlok didn't have a chance at striking a killing blow when he had Krayt down? Also, are you suggesting that Wyyrlok didn't put Krayt down with his sorcery, and Krayt purposely fell on his knees?



Originally posted by Nephthys
Its then revealed that Krayt has his lightsabers (where he didn't on the last page) and is sticking them through Wyyrlok's chest. So either Krayt was quick enough to pick up, activate and bury his lightsabers into Wyyrlok before Wyyrlok could twitch in response, or Krayt was actually fooling him with an illusion and killed him while Wyyrlok thought he had the upper hand.


Could be the case, but why go out of his way to do all of that? Considering that the comic shows us what Krayt's mind was visualizing, I really don't see that as being the case. Perhaps after Krayt broke free from the trance, may have retaliated with a counter illusion to trick Wyyrlok in to believing that he was disarmed.

Originally posted by Nephthys
You mean just like how Obi-Wan has abilities and training to condensate for any impaired ability fighting on loose sand? Tigers enjoy water, they don't fight it. Crocodiles evolved to be able to quickly strike through the water and can move in it far far easier than tigers can.

Nah.
Such as?

Nope, tigers hunt in it if need be. And really, I can keep these analogies coming all day long. Jaguars enjoy water and fight in water, but it's still at a disadvantage against a sufficient big caiman. So on and so forth.

Did you even read the fight or are you going off someones description?

I think he's going off his own description.

Originally posted by Nephthys

How does Vader get around Dark Transfer?

He doesn't let Krayt bear-hug him. His mastery of *that* strategy is too great to be undermined by it.

Sigh debating tires me so I'll just reiterate that I think that Vader should win.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
He doesn't let Krayt bear-hug him. His mastery of *that* strategy is too great to be undermined by it.

It doesn't require a bear hug. Krayt placed one hand on Cade's chest to use it.

Doesn't all it take to die from Dark transfer is being touched? Krayt is undoubtedly faster than Vader, and Vader's defense as formidable as it is isn't 100% (he had his arms crushed by Luke, and got beaten up by Maul's doppelganger). While Vader may be a slightly better duelist, it really just takes one touch IMO.

I don't know who'd win this, Krayt is faster, has enough strength to withstand Vader's onslaught, and while he has weaker TK (arguably) his speed makes up for it where Vader's speed feats are massively inconsistent.

Vader isn't inconsistent at all.

I said his speed was. I don't doubt Vader's skill/power.

I know you meant speed.

Vader's speed feats are inconsistent? Lol.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Not the entire duel. In fact, during part of the duel, Muur was trying to convince her to let him take over, and she was trying to fight off Murrs temptation, while holding her own against Krayt.

Doesn't the fight start with Morne using Muur's sorcery to command the rakghouls to attack? How do you know she wasn't tapping into Muur's power from the start? Hell, as I recall Muur claims at one point to have always been in control.

My memory of when I saw the fight posted is foggy, can you or anyone else post the entire fight of Celeste vs Krayt?

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
She was being distracted by him during her duel with Krayt as well. And she did tap into the talisman during her duel with Vader. That's how she turned his troops into rakghouls.

I don't know that she was being distracted in that duel. And no, I don't think she was tapping into the talisman vs Vader. Vader retreat immediately after that. Thats the end of the fight.



Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
I think he was handling the Vong growths better than when he faced the four IKs, which makes me question how good the knights were. If blitzing knights puts him above Vader in terms of speed, then he'd had done much better against Celeste, which he didn't. Plus, as I said, Vader was still fairly early in his years as a sith during his fight with Moorne. And considering Krayt didn't show much improvement after his resurrection, then I don't see how he is better than peak Vader.

Krayt was close to dying from the Vong growths iirc. He was certainly not in better shape than he was when blitzed those knights. The whole reason he was so desperate to be cured of his armor's drawbacks is the crippling effects of it and that it was slowly killing him.

Anyway, nah. Vader defeated a Morne who was not drawing on Muur's power (and he was knocked on his ass at one point, lol) while Krayt was overpowering a Morne who was. We know that Krayt did improve after his ressurection. I see no reason why he wouldn't be faster without his armor.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Perhaps Krayt knew Wyyrlok would underestimate him, and Krayt pretended to be weaker than he actually was.

Are you seriously suggesting that Wyyrlok didn't have a chance at striking a killing blow when he had Krayt down? Also, are you suggesting that Wyyrlok didn't put Krayt down with his sorcery, and Krayt purposely fell on his knees?

Well he obviously was. He pretty much goes 'lol, you die now' and kills him in the next panel.

Yeah, I am. Of course it looked pretty convincing. That's why its called a trap. But the results speak for themselves. Either Krayt was able to shake off the sorcery and blitz Wyyrlok before he could bring his lightsaber down, or Krayt was faking the whole thing and wasn't actually incapacitated like Wyyrlok was seeing him as.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Could be the case, but why go out of his way to do all of that? Considering that the comic shows us what Krayt's mind was visualizing, I really don't see that as being the case. Perhaps after Krayt broke free from the trance, may have retaliated with a counter illusion to trick Wyyrlok in to believing that he was disarmed.

To show his dominance, obviously. What better way than to both out smart and out do Wyyrlok at his own specialty, sorcery?

We saw what Wyyrlok was assaulting him with, but it actually badly effecting Krayt could still be, and seems to be imo, a ruse. Thats what I think might have happened, Krayt shrugged off the attack and used an illusion to make Wyyrlok think he was down and leave himself open with his stupid speech and huge wind-up swing and dispatched him.