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Force, sabers, all out

Kao is apparantly Dooku level since he can wield two double-bladed lightsabers at the same time, so I'll give the nod to Kit.

Dooku could beat Fisto actually and just because he can wield 2 double bladed light sabers doesn't mean he is on Dooku's level. Fisto takes the majority.

He was mocking other members here...he wasn't being serious, lol ^

I know but I want this forum to become less illogical.

http://media.giphy.com/media/SedMCzMp4uecM/giphy.gif

For this contest: Darach comfortably

Originally posted by Syndicate
Dooku could beat Fisto actually and just because he can wield 2 double bladed light sabers doesn't mean he is on Dooku's level. Fisto takes the majority.
Actually, this matter is much more complicated then it seems.

It is challenging for any individual to achieve expertise in dueling skills with a double-bladed lightsaber. Darach not just achieved expertise in this respect but went a step above: he managed to expertly duel using both a normal lightsaber and a double-bladed lightsaber simultaneously, which is remarkable display of technical proficiency in lightsaber dueling arts (A feat that we don't see typically).

What feats has he accomplished that shows he is an expert in either dueling or the force?

Originally posted by Syndicate
What feats has he accomplished that shows he is an expert in either dueling or the force?
Are you on other forums, like TOR or Comic Vine?

Originally posted by Syndicate
What feats has he accomplished that shows he is an expert in either dueling or the force?

He's the Jedi Battlemaster. I am pretty sure he's an expert duelist.

Also he performed good Force feats in the trailer.

Originally posted by Syndicate
What feats has he accomplished that shows he is an expert in either dueling or the force?
Watch this video:

http://www.swtor.com/info/media/trailers/return

B/W Kao Cen Darach is counted among famous Jedi Knights in SWTOR(E), becomes a Jedi Master and the battlemaster of the Order.

Comic Vine. :P

Originally posted by Nephthys
He's the Jedi Battlemaster. I am pretty sure he's an expert duelist.

Also he performed good Force feats in the trailer.
A title doesn't grant you the skills necessary to beat a skilled opponent only feats do that. Link to the trailer please.

Drallig was granted the rank of Battlemaster, but was handily beaten by Anakin.

Originally posted by Syndicate
Comic Vine. :P
What's your name on there?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Watch this video:

http://www.swtor.com/info/media/trailers/return

B/W Kao Cen Darach is counted among famous Jedi Knights in SWTOR(E), becomes a Jedi Master and the battlemaster of the Order.
Fame means nothing. Many people have become Jedi Masters. Title means nothing. I've seen the video before and while he shows some impressive feat non really supersede the feats Fisto demonstrated in his underwater battle.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Drallig was granted the rank of Battlemaster, but was handily beaten by Anakin.


What's your name on there?
Can't tell but I've seen you around on CV. It's a little strange aren't you like respected at CV? Here people seem to think you're a troll.

Originally posted by Syndicate
Can't tell but I've seen you around on CV. It's a little strange aren't you like respected at CV? Here people seem to think you're a troll.
Why can't you tell me?

Originally posted by Syndicate
A title doesn't grant you the skills necessary to beat a skilled opponent only feats do that. Link to the trailer please.

I didn't say it did, all I said was that he's an expert duelist.

Why would you say he's an expert duelist? From the video he took on a featless Sith Master and an apprentice Malgus actually losing to an apprentice Malgus at the end of the fight.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Why can't you tell me?
It's a secret.

Originally posted by Syndicate
Why would you say he's an expert duelist? From the video he took on a featless Sith Master and an apprentice Malgus actually losing to an apprentice Malgus at the end of the fight.

Because he's the Jedi Battlemaster. "Expert duelist" is in the job description. Also his skill is apparent in the video, don't be difficult.

Even before that battle Malgus was considered one of the greatest warriors in the Empire, hence why he and his Master were leading the attack on Korriban in the first place.

Drallig was a "expert duelist" but still got wtfpwned by a mentally unstable Anakin.

He's still an expert duelist though.

Doesn't mean hes good.

Kit wouldn't get crushed by Anakin the way Drallig did.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Doesn't mean hes good.

Yes it does. Drallig was outmatched by Anakin but he was still extremely skilled in all 7 lightsaber forms. He lost because he was eclipsed in power, which obviously Kao doesn't have a problem with.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Because he's the Jedi Battlemaster. "Expert duelist" is in the job description. Also his skill is apparent in the video, don't be difficult.

Even before that battle Malgus was considered one of the greatest warriors in the Empire, hence why he and his Master were leading the attack on Korriban in the first place.
Doubtless Malgus was skilled but nowhere near the levels he achieved later. Also you just agreed that titles don't equal skill and then proceeded to say he's an expert duelist because he was the Jedi battle master. If he has no feats and accolades that prove he has the necessary skills to defeat Fisto then he doesn't. He was impressive managing to pick up large metal scrap pieces and hurl them at Malgus along with battling two Sith for an extended period but the fact is he lost to an apprentice Malgus and was overwhelmed. Fisto has superior TK AND dueling feats so while it's close I still have to go with Fisto.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Yes it does. Drallig was outmatched by Anakin but he was still extremely skilled in all 7 lightsaber forms. He lost because he was eclipsed in power, which obviously Kao doesn't have a problem with.
Fisto wouldn't eclipse him in power but he is more powerful then him and also because Fisto was one of the temples blademasters and held his own against the likes of Grievous I'm also inclined to give him a slight edge in dueling to especially considering your Jedi's feats are only being beaten by a Sith apprentice and managing to last longer then his own apprentice.

Originally posted by Syndicate
Doubtless Malgus was skilled but nowhere near the levels he achieved later.

True.

Originally posted by Syndicate
Also you just agreed that titles don't equal skill and then proceeded to say he's an expert duelist because he was the Jedi battle master.

No, I (kind of) agreed that it didn't necessarily give you the ability to defeat other skilled opponents. I didn't say that it doesn't make him an expert duelist.

Originally posted by Syndicate
If he has no feats and accolades that prove he has the necessary skills to defeat Fisto then he doesn't. He was impressive managing to pick up large metal scrap pieces and hurl them at Malgus along with battling two Sith for an extended period but the fact is he lost to an apprentice Malgus and was overwhelmed. Fisto has superior TK AND dueling feats so while it's close I still have to go with Fisto.

Kao hurling that huge ship engine is above anything I've seen Fisto perform with the Force.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Drallig was granted the rank of Battlemaster, but was handily beaten by Anakin.
Which proves that technical proficiency alone isn't a deciding factor, strength and mastery of the Force are more important determinants.

As I mentioned before:

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Effectiveness in lightsaber dueling is not a detached development from mastery in the Force, Revan would utterly outclass Jinn in all aspects of combat.

---

Originally posted by Syndicate
Fame means nothing. Many people have become Jedi Masters. Title means nothing. I've seen the video before and while he shows some impressive feat non really supersede the feats Fisto demonstrated in his underwater battle.
Provide details.

Originally posted by Syndicate
Why would you say he's an expert duelist? From the video he took on a featless Sith Master and an apprentice Malgus actually losing to an apprentice Malgus at the end of the fight.
That supposedly featless Sith Master is mentor of Malgus. In addition, Malgus was already a (powerful) battle-hardened warrior at this point even if he was an apprentice in ranking.

Apprenticeship doesn't implies weakness or noobness. As an analogy, Vader remained apprentice of Darth Sidious throughout their co-existence as Dark Lords but was powerful in the ways of the Force nonetheless.

Clear?

Originally posted by Syndicate
Doubtless Malgus was skilled but nowhere near the levels he achieved later.
Malgus was strong and skilled enough to outduel immensely skilled Jedi Masters at this point which is very impressive. At his prime, Malgus would be (is) among the finest warriors throughout galactic history.

Originally posted by Syndicate
Also you just agreed that titles don't equal skill and then proceeded to say he's an expert duelist because he was the Jedi battle master. If he has no feats and accolades that prove he has the necessary skills to defeat Fisto then he doesn't. He was impressive managing to pick up large metal scrap pieces and hurl them at Malgus along with battling two Sith for an extended period but the fact is he lost to an apprentice Malgus and was overwhelmed. Fisto has superior TK AND dueling feats so while it's close I still have to go with Fisto.
See above.

Also, I am waiting for Fisto's showings.

Creating a bubble of the force strong enough to destroy the legs of a separatist super weapon and casually force pushing aside and entire row of speeder ships is better then picking up an engine.

Originally posted by Syndicate
Creating a bubble of the force strong enough to destroy the legs of a separatist super weapon and casually force pushing aside and entire row of speeder ships is better then picking up an engine.

Whats the source for those feats?


(please don't say Tartovosky clone wars)

Kao Cen Darach wins handily IMO.

Those underwater feats are just so inconsistent with anything else he's shown to do with the Force.

Based on Fisto dying immediately for Sidious, and Darach holding his own against TWO Sith Lords simultaneouisly I'm gonna conclude that Darach is a few tiers above Fisto.

2 Sith lords that in no way shape or form can compare to Sidious one being a featless Sith himself and the other being only an apprentice. 2 other blade masters die almost instantly to Sidious too and it's likely Darach would have fallen even faster. Along with that Fisto's considerable feats as a duelist like beating Grievous and beating Obi Wan in the Cestus Deception far outweigh being beat by a featless Sith master and a Sith apprentice along with the superior TK showings from the OP clone wars series which I'll admit IS OP but still canon he takes this 7-8/10.

The "apprentice" term means nothing. As someone already pointed out; OT Vader was an apprentice for his entire duration as a Sith Lord yet was immensely powerful in the Force and a master duelist.

Darach would've fallen even faster? Really? Because Kolar and Tinn have better feats than what Darach displayed in The Return trailer. Yea, right.

Beating AOTC Kenobi is hardly as impressive as what Darach displayed. Grievous jobs so much in that show it ridiculous. Who hasn't defeated him in one on one combat? Not trying to downplay Fisto's feats there but Darach's is clearly more impressive.

I don't even mind the OG Clone Wars cartoon. But those feats were underwater and very inconsistent from anything else I've seen him do from a power standpoint. This leads me to believe he might just be that much more effective and stronger a fighter underwater which this fight is not.

Vindican isn't so much of a pushover either. His lighting visibly moved that escaping starship, seemed proficient in the use of the double bladed lightsaber(atleast TPM Maul level who is more or less Kit Fisto level overall), and fought on after having his eye slashed.

Originally posted by Darth Martin
Who hasn't defeated him in one on one combat?

Grievous lost to gungans, lawl.

Didn't General Gungan beat him?

Fine then suffice it to say Malgus was far from his prime.

That's just like how another guy said since Darach was the temple blademaster it automatically makes him skilled Kolar and Tinn were also blademasters so the equivalence stand unless the Darach fan wants to admit that a title does not bring an automatic measure of skill.

It was not AOTC Obi Wan it was closer to Prime ROTS Obi Wan. Trying or not you are downplaying them, it was a legitimate win against an opponent who has fought evenly with Mace Windu.

But there's no proof of that. It can just as easily be said that it took even more power to accomplish those feats because of the distorted water pressure. Not that I'm saying that happened but neither am I lessening his feats.

It didn't move the ship the ship was moving away from them already. Woah woah woah did you just say a nameless and featless Sith in Maul's equivalent? No. Just no.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Grievous lost to gungans, lawl.

Didn't General Gungan beat him?

...
No...

He sacrificed himself to do it, but he still dodged and parried a few strikes and managed to **** Grievous up.

Kit defeating Grievous is better than Kao getting stomped by Malgus before he was even given the rank of Lord.

The events of The Cestus Deception and AOTC occur in 22 BBY. ROTS is 19 BBY. Am I missing something. No way Kenobi had come close to his ROTS level of Soresu mastery.

As far as Vindican being the equivalent of Maul; yea, just a hunch. But he deflected a missile, could produce Force lightning, and seemed just as adept with a saber staff as Maul.

He is not even close to Maul.

Fisto.

Bingo.

I'm positive this is Kit's best TK showing.

http://i1349.photobucket.com/albums/p751/Intrepid37/Kit%20Fisto/TK/2780947-new_picture__8__zps94eb216a.jpg

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Kit defeating Grievous is better than Kao getting stomped by Malgus before he was even given the rank of Lord.
Utterly subjective assessment, makes no sense either.

Malgus, even at this point, is superior then Grievous. Even at this point, Malgus is among the greatest warriors of the Empire (which is tremendous reputation to uphold) and he achieves "zone" moment to overcome Darach.

Originally posted by Syndicate
2 Sith lords that in no way shape or form can compare to Sidious one being a featless Sith himself and the other being only an apprentice.
This is utterly baseless lowballing of 2 prominent Sith.

Vindican isn't exactly featless;

- Comes in to contact with a missile and tanks it, blunting its explosive power in the process with his mastery of the Force.
- Unleashes powerful bursts of Sith lightning.
- Demonstrates impressive endurance: continues to duel even after loosing an eye; survives a lightsaber impalement that would be fatal to most.

Vindican is a Sith Inquisitor and his understanding of the Force is expected to be above norm by virtue of this fact alone. He is a mentor of Malgus and successfully forges his apprentice in to a virtually unstoppable warrior.

Also, apprenticeship doesn't implies mookness or noobness. I have covered this part before.

REPEAT:

Malgus, even at this point, is superior then Grievous. Even at this point, Malgus is among the greatest warriors of the Empire (which is tremendous reputation to uphold) and he achieves "zone" moment to overcome Darach.

Originally posted by Syndicate
2 other blade masters die almost instantly to Sidious too and it's likely Darach would have fallen even faster.
Keeping in view the capability of Darach to cope with two prominent Sith Lords in a duel, dueling expertise and mastery of the Force in general....really doubtful.

Originally posted by Syndicate
Along with that Fisto's considerable feats as a duelist like beating Grievous and beating Obi Wan in the Cestus Deception far outweigh being beat by a featless Sith master and a Sith apprentice along with the superior TK showings from the OP clone wars series which I'll admit IS OP but still canon he takes this 7-8/10.
So Grievous and Obi-Wan are superior opponents then the duo of Vindican and Malgus?

Also, Fisto's feats aren't superior to that of Darach.

Darach send a Sith Inquisitor packing with a blast of power. Have Fisto ever dominated a decent Force-user in this manner with his powers? NEVER

In addition, Darach lifted a heavy starship engine and hurled it like a missile towards Malgus. Have Fisto ever matches this feat with his TK abilities? NEVER

Fisto does have higher number of feats by virtue of being explored more then Darach but he falls short in comparative basis.

Originally posted by Syndicate
He is not even close to Maul.
Vindican have superior command of the Force at minimum.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
I'm positive this is Kit's best TK showing.

http://i1349.photobucket.com/albums/p751/Intrepid37/Kit%20Fisto/TK/2780947-new_picture__8__zps94eb216a.jpg
Thanks for the share. Neat.

However, Darach lifted a heavy starship engine and hurled it like a missile towards an opponent without even a hand gesture, clearly a much superior feat in comparison.

http://i62.tinypic.com/314tgsi.png

Darach lifts this starship engine without even looking at it and hurls it like a missile towards Malgus without a hand gesture:

http://i58.tinypic.com/2qk5ath.jpg

That engine size and that tank look pretty equal to me

Originally posted by carthage
That engine size and that tank look pretty equal to me


but it's thrown, rather than simply moved.

Lol. Fisto levitates the tank and rolls it. Darach's feat was clearly superior.

That starship engine also would be heavier then that water tank.

That substance isn't water, but the fact that Darach threw it makes the difference.

Kit still has better feats as a swordsman, though.

Originally posted by Nephthys
He's the Jedi Battlemaster. I am pretty sure he's an expert duelist.

Also he performed good Force feats in the trailer.

Yeah so was Cin Drallig and we don't automatically assume he's above Fisto.

Read what I said after that. Drallig wasn't powerful enough to stand next to the greats, but he was still a master of all seven lightsaber forms. Someone being the Jedi Battlemaster is proof of extremely high levels of technical skill IMO.

I'm done debating. Fisto is clearly the better duelist and an apprentice Malgus isn't even close to Grievous. The idiotic sentences in this thread make me want to scream. He also has comparable TK feats which is why I say Fisto. I'm done with this thread you can all continue to debate among yourselves.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Read what I said after that. Drallig wasn't powerful enough to stand next to the greats, but he was still a master of all seven lightsaber forms. Someone being the Jedi Battlemaster is proof of extremely high levels of technical skill IMO.

No one is denying Kao's technical skill. His duel wielding of a saberstaff and a regular saber was really damned impressive. But that doesn't mean he has better raw power and speed than Kit.

Yep.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Kit still has better feats as a swordsman, though.

Such as? We've already been over Kenobi and Grievous? If I recall, hasn't he had a low showing against Ventress?

Originally posted by Lord Stark
No one is denying Kao's technical skill. His duel wielding of a saberstaff and a regular saber was really damned impressive. But that doesn't mean he has better raw power and speed than Kit.

I didn't say that it did. All I've been suggesting is that he's a gifted swordsman with expert technical skill. Which is obviously the case.

And I would say that Kao seems to have better power than Kit, judging from the Force feats.

Kit stomps due to Kao not existing.

Kit loses because his best feats are beating droids lol.

Grievous isn't a droid, and neither is Ventress, and neither is Obi-Wan.

He lost to Ventress, beat a weakened version of Grievous, and beat Obi wan in a practice match.

Hardly that impressive.

Kao lost to apprentice Malgus. Sooooooooooooooooooooo impressive.

Still better than Fisto beating droids, a weakened grievous, and losing to a pre-prime Ventress. Lol.

I never even said Fisto would lose to Kao.

Kit would beat Exar Kun lol

If Exar was a battledroid sure.

Originally posted by carthage
If Exar was a battledroid sure.
Battle droid > Exar

Originally posted by Nephthys
And I would say that Kao seems to have better power than Kit, judging from the Force feats.

Nope.

3MG9PvAHfhE

He ignores CWC bro

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Battle droid > Exar

Yoda's cane> Exar Kun

Originally posted by carthage
Yoda's cane> Exar Kun
Yoda's cane > R2D2> Super Battle Droid > Battle Droid > Exar

Originally posted by Intrepid37
He ignores CWC bro

Perhaps he once did. But considering everything is now non-canon, something being called "exaggerated" or not jiving with power levels as seen in the films isn't quite the death knell it once was.

Yeah Kao doesn't even exist lol Kit stomps this

How is this even a debate? Kao's only feat is beating Vindican. Kisto would own Malgus from the Return trailer. Kao can't compete.

No, I still see the CWC as exaggerated.

Originally posted by JediMaster97
How is this even a debate? Kao's only feat is beating Vindican. Kisto would own Malgus from the Return trailer. Kao can't compete.

Wut.

I mean come on, a more experienced Malgus had trouble fighting Jace Malcom.

And Obi-Wan AND Quinlan Vos had trouble with Cad Bane. Maul had trouble with Pre Visla. Anakin has also had trouble with Bane and others. Malcoms the best soldier in the Republic.

Kao cen darach he was able to take on Darth vindican and Darth malgus by himself for their entire deul and best vindican and if he would not have been tired I beleive he could have beaten malgus and malgus is undoubtbly greater than fisto and the fact that fisto is weak against single opponents and there is no jackal going on an darach is a battle master so he knows all forms including shi cho so darach has a style advantage so I give it to Kao cen darach

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Kao lost to apprentice Malgus. Sooooooooooooooooooooo impressive.

He was tired he had just come frm fighting both sith lord all by himself so he was exhausted

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Battle droid > Exar

Kit Fisto but it'd probably be a decent fight.

Kao cen darach
Fisto is at a severe disadvantage since his form is weak against single opponents with single blades which that's what darach is going to be using and plus darach is a battlemaster and knows all seven forms but specializies in nymand so fisto will have to deal with those force attacks and when he went up against ventress he was beaten and the fight for darach is a good feat since he was able to go toe to toe with both Sith and take vindican out and vindican isn't featless he trained malgus who is noted as a very powerful sith so I wouldnt down play that feat

Kit.

Kit, high difficulty

Kao or draw.

Kit have nothing on Kao in showings.

What are your thoughts on Kao vs Maul in sabers, LeGenD?

Originally posted by McP
Kit, high difficulty

Originally posted by ILS
What are your thoughts on Kao vs Maul in sabers, LeGenD?

He has Kao>Dooku in an all out, dude, what do you think his thoughts are?

Please tell me he doesn't.

He does. biscuits

Kit fists him

Originally posted by carthage
Kit fists him

I ****ing choked on that. 10/10

Kit Fister vs Cow Center-arch

I'm no comedian.