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All of the Q race vs Morgan Freeman (God)

Going by Bruce's feats, God can blow up stars by just pointing fingers at them. Then again, the Continuum's civil war was causing supernovas in a dimension completely separate from itself. Not to mention that an inexperienced Q like Amanda Rogers was capable of destroying the entire galaxy if her powers had gone out of control.

I think the Continuum wins this battle.

God being all knowing though and truly omnipotent, and Q actually admitted that they were not gods and not truly omnipotent might make a big difference though.

Morgan-God wins, obviously.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
God being all knowing though and truly omnipotent, and Q actually admitted that they were not gods and not truly omnipotent might make a big difference though.
Based on what feats do you believe that God was literally omnipotent?

The Q have superior feats, and collectively would be too much for Morweh imo.

Him creating the Universe is a pretty big feat

Originally posted by Lek Kuen
Him creating the Universe is a pretty big feat

The Q can also create universes. Going by biblical feats, God is at best a universal reality warper, whereas the Q are pandimensional. Nothing God did in the bible or in Bruce Almighty is outside the capability of a Q.

Morgan is shown being able to be anywhere he wants to be instantly. The Enterprise ran away from Q in the first NG episode and he had to chase them.

Morgan has speed. Confirmed.

Morgan God ftw.

Originally posted by Lek Kuen
Him creating the Universe is a pretty big feat
Q created an afterlife dimension simply to mess around with Piccard.

Originally posted by Dramatic Gecko
Morgan is shown being able to be anywhere he wants to be instantly. The Enterprise ran away from Q in the first NG episode and he had to chase them.

Morgan has speed. Confirmed.

Q was obviously limiting himself, as he does all the time. Also changing the gravitational constant is better than anything Morgan or Bruce did.

Originally posted by Dramatic Gecko
Morgan is shown being able to be anywhere he wants to be instantly. The Enterprise ran away from Q in the first NG episode and he had to chase them.

Morgan has speed. Confirmed.
Q could also be anywhere anytime he wanted. The Continuum is an access point to any place in the universe iirc. Not to mention the ship ran away at ftl speeds and Q still caught and trapped them in a jiffy.

Anyways, the Q are considered the top beings in a universe which already consists of godlike species like the Douwd, Organians, Prophets etc. The Almightyverse on the other hand consists of no super-powered being apart from the Biblical God himself, and if the sole claim to God's omnipotence comes from citing the Bible, then that's a dead end.

Originally posted by Epicurus
Q could also be anywhere anytime he wanted. The Continuum is an access point to any place in the universe iirc. Not to mention the ship ran away at ftl speeds and Q still caught and trapped them in a jiffy.

Anyways, the Q are considered the top beings in a universe which already consists of godlike species like the Douwd, Organians, Prophets etc. The Almightyverse on the other hand consists of no super-powered being apart from the Biblical God himself, and if the sole claim to God's omnipotence comes from citing the Bible, then that's a dead end.

Originally posted by Epicurus
if the sole claim to God's omnipotence comes from citing the Bible, then that's a dead end. how is it a dead end? Unlike the real world where the crap in the bible can't be proved, in the movie, there's actual proof that MorganGod was omnipotent... he gave an ordinary human the ability to move the moon and blow up stars.

Originally posted by marwash22
how is it a dead end? Unlike the real world where the crap in the bible can't be proved, in the movie, there's actual proof that MorganGod was omnipotent... he gave an ordinary human the ability to move the moon and blow up stars.


That's not proof of omnipotence as the Bible is littered with self-contradictory bullshit, some of which indicates a non-omnipotent God as opposed to an all-powerful one.

Sure, and the Q did the same when he turned Riker into a Q. Not to mention that Riker, unlike Bruce, didn't seem to have the free will limitation either and seemed to do a better job at godhood as opposed to the vain and stupid Bruce. Heck, Q2 was able to strip Q of his powers.

Originally posted by marwash22
he gave an ordinary human the ability to move the moon and blow up stars.



How is that any different than when Q gave Riker powers?

Settle down. i don't even know who Riker is, and i don't give a shit about this thread due to not giving a shit/not knowing shit about Star Trek and it's characters... i think that's who this Q person (or people) is/are.

I was simply rejecting Epicurus' notion of limiting the movie character to what's written in the real world bible. The movie is it's own entity which clearly makes a point of portraying MorganGod as the creator. Putting limits on a character where there are none, based on contradictory statements in a book that is itself contradicted by the actual on screen evidence, is dumb.

for the sake of whoever actually ends up debating this topic, i think Epicurus needs to stop applying the real world bible to a fictional character that has facts to prove his power, instead of faith that suggests it.

The thing is the only reason you consider God better than Q is because of what the bible says about God being omnipotent (and even his biblical feats aren't above a Q), because based on screenfeats Morgan hasn't done shit that Q can't do.

Originally posted by marwash22
I was simply rejecting Epicurus' notion of limiting the movie character to what's written in the real world bible. The movie is it's own entity which clearly makes a point of portraying MorganGod as the creator. Putting limits on a character where there are none, based on contradictory statements in a book that is itself contradicted by the actual on screen evidence, is dumb.

for the sake of whoever actually ends up debating this topic, i think Epicurus needs to stop applying the real world bible to a fictional character that has facts to prove his power, instead of faith that suggests it.
I was refuting the idea that God could be ascribed as being an omnipotent being based on the bible in case anyone decided to use that as evidence. Since it's happened on a versus forum before. Because honestly speaking, no feat from the movies themselves actually portray Morweh as being a literal omnipotent deity that transcends beings like Q.

Calm down.

cool. no other references to the real world bible need be made since it has nothing to do with the movie character.

bestowing godlike power to a mortal is not evidence of omnipotence? The word of God, the literal word of God in this case, saying he's the creator is not evidence of omnipotence?

Originally posted by marwash22
cool. no other references to the real world bible need be made since it has nothing to do with the movie character.
So you concede that Q wins? Excellent.

i concede nothing because like i already said, i don't know anything about Q.

answer the question tho:
Originally posted by marwash22

bestowing godlike power to a mortal is not evidence of omnipotence? The word of God, the literal word of God in this case, saying he's the creator is not evidence of omnipotence?

Originally posted by marwash22
i concede nothing because like i already said, i don't know anything about Q.

answer the question tho:

Did God say he was omnipotent in Bruce Almighty? Because it only says that in the bible, which you said you were omitting. Also Morweh couldn't affect free will, so he's not omnipotent. Everything he did, Q can replicate.

no, he never said the exact words, "I am omnipotent".

he's says "I'm the one, creator of the heavens and the Earth, the alpha and omega, Bruce, I am God"

Also, he tells Bruce that he cannot tell people that he is God or use the power to change free will. MorganGod never said he himself could not do these things... as evidenced when he told both Bruce and Evan that he is God.


c'mon. i can't believe you're arguing this.

Originally posted by marwash22
no, he never said the exact words, "I am omnipotent".

he's says "I'm the one, creator of the heavens and the Earth, the alpha and omega, Bruce, I am God"

Also, he tells Bruce that he cannot tell people that he is God or use the power to change free will. MorganGod never said he himself could not do these things... as evidenced when he told both Bruce and Evan that he is God.


c'mon. i can't believe you're arguing this.

Creator of an alternate dimension and a planet. Not outside of Q's power. And again, no mention of limitless omnipotent power.

And at the end when Bruce asked how to improve lives without affecting free will, God essentially said "if you figure out an answer, let me know", meaning he isn't omnipotent or omniscient.

You seem biased by the Holy Bibble (because only Bibble can keep it so real)

k.

fc.

Originally posted by marwash22
no, he never said the exact words, "I am omnipotent".

he's says "I'm the one, creator of the heavens and the Earth, the alpha and omega, Bruce, I am God"

Also, he tells Bruce that he cannot tell people that he is God or use the power to change free will. MorganGod never said he himself could not do these things... as evidenced when he told both Bruce and Evan that he is God.


c'mon. i can't believe you're arguing this.

Mouth won the thread with that. Screen feats. Good job, mouth

Also you ST tourist, the Q can die. God > death.

Freeman was an avatar for an infinitely unimaginable and unimaginable infinite being, of which the whole Q continuum is merely part.

The winner is whoever God wants it to be.

Originally posted by Robtard
Mouth won the thread with that. Screen feats. Good job, mouth

Also you ST tourist, the Q can die. God > death.

What in that quote and what screenfeats does God have that are above Q? He just said the heavens and the Earth. That's just an alternate dimension (which Q can also make) and a planet (which Q can also make). Hell, you could interpret it as a Q visiting Earth posing as the Judeochristian God. A Q could replicate line for line word of word and do and show everything to Bruce than Morgan can. Again what screenfeats does he have that Q can't replicate.

What kills Q besides Q weaponry? And the Q have existed forever and can go before the Big Bang, so they too are the Alpha and the Omega unless their own interference

Also, if God can not will himself to die like Q can, that means he is not omnipotent. Paradox FTW.

Originally posted by Mindship
avatar for an infinitely unimaginable and unimaginable infinite being

you've just described Q right there.

Originally posted by Lestov16
What in that quote and what screenfeats does God have that are above Q? He just said the heavens and the Earth. That's just an alternate dimension (which Q can also make) and a planet (which Q can also make). Hell, you could interpret it as a Q visiting Earth posing as the Judeochristian God. A Q could replicate line for line word of word and do and show everything to Bruce than Morgan can. Again what screenfeats does he have that Q can't replicate.

What kills Q besides Q weaponry? And the Q have existed forever and can go before the Big Bang, so they too are the Alpha and the Omega unless their own interference


That quote is God saying he's "The one above all, the beginning and the end". God existing before the universe, multiverse, any ****ing verse.

Incorrect. The Q where once like humanity (humanoids) and evolved into their state. IIRC, Quinn (a Q) tells us this.

But in their current existing state they are the Alpha and the Omega, because they can exist before the beginning and after the end. They can make universes of their own and exist before and after those, literally being TOAA and Alpha and Omega of those universes. What proves that God is more than at best a bi-universal (tri- if we're counting Hell) reality warper.

Originally posted by Lestov16
But in their current existing state they are the Alpha and the Omega, because they can exist before the beginning and after the end. They can make universes of their own and exist before and after those, literally being TOAA and Alpha and Omega of those universes. What proves that God is more than at best a bi-universal (tri- if we're counting Hell) reality warper.

They can die. That right there should let you know they're not truly omnipotent, and not "the Alpha and Omega". They also have a set IQ (it's not an infinite number)

It's also not completely clear that when a Q create things, if they're actually real or just highly complex illusions that appear real to lesser beings.

I love ST, but this is one of the silliest debates.

How does Heavens and Earth translate into Any Phucking Verse in the Multiverse? Heavens and Earth sounds like two universes at best (we won't count hell because it wasn't in the film). And whadya know? Only two universes were shown in the film.

Even in Genesis it says all of creation consists of ONLY the heavens and Earth, and during the 7 days part, he only describes making at most stars (we'll say galactic superclusters to be nice). ALL of objective reality according the the film (and the bible) consists of only two universes (3-4 if we're counting Heaven, Sheol (renamed Gehenna or Hell), Earth (the single objective physical universe), and Purgatory (even though I'm hesitant to count that since it's not in scripture). Obviously, if there's a multiverse there's more than 4 univeres, which is why, obviously, contemporary monotheistic religions are crocks of shit.

Too bad the people who wrote the bible we're scientifically illiterate desert primitives, but that's what they wrote, and that is what the filmmakers went by. Morgan is going by screenfeats at best a bi-universal reality warper. Biblical God is at best a tri-universal warper. A Q could make 3 universes (4 if we count purgatory) in his sleep.

Sorry, what you are suffering from is a blind case of religious bias (I'd never expect that from you Rob) because you are taking the scripture figuratively instead of literally, which is why most people are fooled by it. According to the script (of the film) God can only create two universes, and we saw those 2. According to the Bible all of reality consists of at best 3. The Q can create hundreds if they want. They're more powerful. They win here

/game

Also, the biblical universe (and thus the Bruce Almighty universe) is not the same as our objective reality, because in that universe, the Earth came before the stars, which is now how our Earth formed. So it really is just a fictional tri-dimension.

And again, if God can not will himself to die he's not omnipotent. And what in biblical scripture or the script implies he;s omniscient outside of his tri-dimension.

Originally posted by Lestov16
And again, if God can not will himself to die he's not omnipotent. But God can make himself not exist: he created atheists.

Every single one of those passages has to be interpreted figuratively to pertain to our objective wavefunction-based reality. Because if we're going biblical:




They say that there's only the heavens (which the bible describes as another universe; we'll even include Sheol in there) and the Earth (the extent of which can at best be taken as galactic superclusters. That's 3 phucking universes. No more. Yes, he's the Alpha and the Omega OF THOSE 3 UNIVERSES. Where in the bible does it say infinite universes?



Basically, the Star Trek universe is closer to our universe than the biblical one is. The Star Trek verse is made up of infinite universes, which is closer in style to quantum physicists beliefs of our objective reality. And the Q can transverse any one of those universes, and make multiple universes of their own. Not to mention, their reality is closer to ours because in that universe, the Earth came after the stars unlike the Bible.


The Bible is a story about a tri-dimensional world, and in one of those worlds is matter and energy similar (but definitely not the same as ours), different physical laws and universal initial conditions, and a geocentric alternate history where Earth was created before the stars. That's all God rules over. That tri-dimensional fictional world. THE BIBLICAL TRI-UNIVERSE IS NOT EVEN CLOSE TO OUR POSSIBLY-INFINITE MULTIVERSAL OBJECTIVE REALITY. Again, the Trek Verse is empirically larger and closer to our reality than the Biblical one. The ONLY way to think that the God of the bible can rule over an infinite multiverse like the Star Trek one is to take the script figuratively, which is what pulls you into it's trap and makes you think it's real.

It's clearly implying all creation, as there was nothing before God. So stop being silly; a fictional interpretation of Abrahamic God is still greater than all.

The Q are not truly omnipotent; just vastly powerful. Quinn the Q stated this and a Q's IQ is "2005", that's finite, which further supports that claim.

Originally posted by Robtard
implying

/boom

And again how can God rule over the infinite multiversal Star Trekverse when his tri-verse with a different Earth than ours is clearly a single deterministic one, which is the absolute opposite of the Trekverse

No boom at all. Your argument is still: "Morgan-god didn't specifically claim he was omnipotent so he's not."

Morgan did so in a round about way with that quote and the Q are definitely not truly omnipotent.

So it's 'In All Likelihood Omnipotent’ Vs ‘Vastly Powerful Not Omnipotent'. The former clearly is the logical bet. So stop being silly.

Stop taking things figuratively.

Originally posted by Robtard
It's clearly implying all creation, as there was nothing before God. So stop being silly; a fictional interpretation of Abrahamic God is still greater than all.

The Q are not truly omnipotent; just vastly powerful. Quinn the Q stated this and a Q's IQ is "2005", that's finite, which further supports that claim.

The idea that IQ has no cap begs for some evidence.

In any case, Morgweh's power is an inferred ability here, with himself and the book he had written as the sole evidence. In measurable power, Q has done a lot more and there are certainly more of them.

This debate is going to give me a frigging migrane...

Originally posted by Robtard
No boom at all. Your argument is still: "Morgan-god didn't specifically claim he was omnipotent so he's not."

Morgan did so in a round about way with that quote and the Q are definitely not truly omnipotent.

So it's 'In All Likelihood Omnipotent’ Vs ‘Vastly Powerful Not Omnipotent'. The former clearly is the logical bet. So stop being silly.

That's not my argument at all. My argument is that MorganGod only showed omnipotence over 2 universes, and Q are way more powerful than that

This fight would take place in a neutral universe/arena; so Morgan-God would have the same dominion/powers over it just as he had in your silly "2 universe" angle.

The Q are not truly omnipotent, as per the Q.

The Q have dominion over a larger multiverse, and thus have more power than God. Yahweh only controls 3 universes. Q can create way more than that. The Q whip Morgan like Gene Hackman.

Originally posted by Lestov16
The Q have dominion over a larger multiverse, and thus have more power than God. Yahweh only controls 3 universes. Q can create way more than that. The Q whip Morgan like Gene Hackman.

It is actually unknown on both counts.

The Q literally have limits within their sphere of influence, Robtard was not wrong on that count, so it is nigh omnipotence. The fact that they can die, even within their own continuum should be proof enough of this, but not only this, they can be stripped of their powers by beings of equivelant power.

However, interpretations of Morgan God (AKA Yaweh id you will) are based on interpretations of scriptures thousands of years old, before it was scientifically proven that the world was not indeed flat and the world was not the sole planet in all existence. If you are going to go by literal interpretation you would be very sorely mistaken.

I am not religious myself, but even I know how to interpret ancient points of view in relation to todays knowledge, especially in a figurative sense.

Originally posted by Lestov16
The Q have dominion over a larger multiverse, and thus have more power than God. Yahweh only controls 3 universes. Q can create way more than that.

The Q whip Morgan like Gene Hackman.

Yet they don't, they're less powerful in their own realm than Morgan-god is in his. They're not omnipotent.

Unforgiven?

Originally posted by Robtard
Yet they don't, they're less powerful in their own realm than Morgan-god is in his. They're not omnipotent.

Unforgiven?

I doubt they lack absolute omnipotence over the worlds they create, which is a greater number than Morweh was capable of

Great flick. Deserved the Oscars.

Originally posted by Lestov16
I doubt they lack absolute omnipotence over the worlds they create, which is a greater number than Morweh was capable of

Great flick. Deserved the Oscars.

They're not omnipotent, dude. You're acting as if they could create an entire universe (planets, stars, galaxies etc) of the likes Morgan-God did out of nothingness(which is what we get in we take God as a fictional character), add to it that the realities we see them create may possibly not be real.

Yeah, I liked it. Might be my 2nd favorite western.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
It is actually unknown on both counts.

The Q literally have limits within their sphere of influence, Robtard was not wrong on that count, so it is nigh omnipotence. The fact that they can die, even within their own continuum should be proof enough of this, but not only this, they can be stripped of their powers by beings of equivelant power.

So only a Q can hurt a Q. And so what there were no other tri-versal gods in the bible? The Q are beyond tri-versal

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
However, interpretations of Morgan God (AKA Yaweh id you will) are based on interpretations of scriptures thousands of years old, before it was scientifically proven that the world was not indeed flat and the world was not the sole planet in all existence. If you are going to go by literal interpretation you would be very sorely mistaken.

Exactly. You can't go by the literal interpretation because it is ridiculous because obviously most religions are glorified mythologies, which in turned are nothing more than obsolete geocentric universal cosmologies. Thus the only way you can interpret it is as a fictional story, and according to that story Yahweh could only create 3 universes and had omnipotence over them, and the Q can do the exact same.



Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
I am not religious myself, but even I know how to interpret ancient points of view in relation to todays knowledge, especially in a figurative sense.

Exactly. Nowadays we have to apply figurative interpretation, but when the ink originally hit the papyrus, they meant every single word as literal objective fact, and that's the only proper way to interpret it, because to interpret it differently as if it objectively applies to our possible multiverse, even though it gets it wrong on the first page by listing a different set of initial conditions than those objectively known of our reality, thereby IMMEDIATELY rendering nothing more than a work of fiction limited only to what was exactly written and not our own subjective opinion, is to be cheating and a horrific form of self delusion.

Originally posted by Robtard
They're not omnipotent, dude. You're acting as if they could create an entire universe (planets, stars, galaxies etc) of the likes Morgan-God did out of nothingness(which is what we get in we take God as a fictional character), add to it that the realities we see them create may possibly not be real.

Yeah, I liked it. Might be my 2nd favorite western.

What suggests they aren't real? And again, what implies a tri-versal being can take on beings who can have control over the infinite Star Trek multiverse. Near omnipotence over an infinite multiverse and ability to create more than 3 universes>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>being who has total omnipotence over a mere 3 universes only

My all time favorite is Shane.

Imho...

The Q know they are godlike to lesser beings. But I never got the impression they saw themselves as gods in the absolute sense. For all their power and machinations, I got the impression that "existence" (as Q said to Picard in the last episode) was still acknowledged as the greater, more wondrous entity, truly unconditionally infinite, in which the Q moved and did their business with universes and such.

Morgan Freeman was yet another portrayal of what is regarded as God in the absolute sense, not only the Creator of all existence but Existence Itself (this is especially clear in the perennial philosophy, which includes the Bible). One and the same: the unseen Dreamer behind the scenes, and the Dream itself, including the Q, the Organians, and every other godlike being that's popped up in the Trek multiverse.

In relation to such a Source/Ground of Being, I could see Q as a high-order archetypal entity or demiurge. Again, truly godlike as compared to beings like us, so closely bound to matter. But I do not consider them the Absolute.

*pontification sequence terminated*

I disagree. He was shown to be the creator a mere 3 universes. The Q could do the same thing and call themselves the Gods of those worlds. The ST multiverse is way larger than the biblical tri-verse. The only thing that suggests different is inferred interpretations that do not correspond with what is actually written in the scripture.

They're not omnipotent, dude. They have a finite intellect, dude.

Look at it this way, in the Bruce Almighty universe, the Q are a fictional race in a science fiction TV show

The Q are omnipotent in comparison to humans, that doesn't mean they're all powerful.

A story about Star Trek wouldn't exist in the Bruce Almighty universe, because that world is a completely different alternate history that doesn't even share our same physical initial conditions, less lone TV shows.

And couldn't the Q make a world where Bruce Almighty is a fictional movie? It would be closer to the example you're trying to make, since their multiverse has more similar physical laws to ours than the biblical (and thus Morgan Almighty) verse.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
The Q are omnipotent in comparison to humans, that doesn't mean they're all powerful.

My argument isn't that the Q are omnipotent, it's that God isn't omnipotent. His power levels are below those shown by the Q. Everything God did can be replicated by the Q.

Originally posted by Lestov16
A story about Star Trek wouldn't exist in the Bruce Almighty universe, because that world is a completely different alternate history that doesn't even share our same physical initial conditions, less lone TV shows.

And couldn't the Q make a world where Bruce Almighty is a fictional movie? It would be closer to the example you're trying to make, since their multiverse has more similar physical laws to ours than the biblical (and thus Morgan Almighty) verse.

No, it's pretty much our own word, just fictionalized. It was also overall just a joke.

Just stop. A fictionalized God as God is supposed to be > all others.

So no actual written empirical evidence that God can control an infinite multiverse other than subjective opinion which has been altered since childhood by social tradition. According to the Bible, he can only create 3 universes. That is the extent of his power. In the movie he is depowered to 2. Stop thinking figuratively because it is a flawed way of analyzing religion.

Originally posted by Lestov16
So no actual written empirical evidence that God can control an infinite multiverse other than subjective opinion which has been altered since childhood by social tradition. According to the Bible, he can only create 3 universes. That is the extent of his power. In the movie he is depowered to 2. Stop thinking figuratively because it is a flawed way of analyzing religion.

No, according to the Bible God is the beginning and the end, the creator of all as I showed you with the bible verses you asked for.

When we fictionalize that as a power-set and as per the quote from Bruce Almighty, film God is unbeatable. This isn't about actual religion. So stop it already.

And the "all" that he created is a mere 3 universes, a tiny amount compared to what one Q, less lone the entire continuum can muster.

Film God is unbeatable because he created 2 universes? Bullshit. There are multiple fictional beings who could pull that off. Pre-Retcon Beyonder and any other character that can create universes (such as the Q) would annihilate him. Only reason you think that all means the "all" of our objective reality is subconscious clinging to social tradition.

Originally posted by Lestov16
And the "all" that he created is a mere 3 universes, a tiny amount compared to what one Q, less lone the entire continuum can muster.

Film God is unbeatable because he created 2 universes? Bullshit. There are multiple fictional beings who could pull that off. Pre-Retcon Beyonder and any other character that can create universes (such as the Q) would annihilate him. Only reason you think that all means the "all" of our objective reality is subconscious clinging to social tradition.

No, "all" would be everything that was, is and will be.

Stop with your "subconcious" nonsense. This isn't about actual religion, we're taking God as a fictional character/power-set as God works in a Movie Vs match.

The Beyonder would not be above Morgan-God. Morgan-God would be above the One-Above-All, or a different aspect of the same being, depending on how you see the One-Above-All.

And that " everything that was, is and will be", according to Genesis, which is the groundwork of the universe of the bible, only consist of 3 universes. You trying to apply it to the possible infinite objective omniverse is nothing but your own subjective interpretation and not what is actually written.

Well, if we're talking God as a fictional character, we only saw him create 2 universes. What suggests he has control over an infinite multiverse other than your opinion?

Again, what would make Morgan God above TOAA considering Morgan only created 2 universes, whereas TOAA created an infinite multiverse, other than your subjective opinion that is not supported by what is actually written and only supported by your figurative interpretation?

Originally posted by Lestov16
Q was obviously limiting himself, as he does all the time. Also changing the gravitational constant is better than anything Morgan or Bruce did.

And this post cuts to the chase. God created the universe by messing with the four fundamental forces. Q can do the same thing so they are equal in "omnipotence".

But here is where Q wins/loses: I believe Q's statement about changing the gravitational constant was ONLY a locally contained statement. Meaning, gravity would only change directly around that giant asteroid/comet rather than the entire universe else Q would inadvertently destroy the entire universe...which I do not think that was the point of his statement.

Depending upon your perspective, that means Q cannot affect things on a universal scale OR Q's powers are the same as God's but can be focused on a very tiny fraction of the universe (meaning, he can be far more precise). So it really does depend on your perspective of how far you think Q's powers can reach. If Q cannot affect things on a truly universal scale (meaning, we cannot commit a "no-limits fallacy", then he is outclassed by God in omnipotence.

Originally posted by Lestov16
And that " everything that was, is and will be", according to Genesis, which is the groundwork of the universe of the bible, only consist of 3 universes. You trying to apply it to the possible infinite objective omniverse is nothing but your own subjective interpretation and not what is actually written.

Well, if we're talking God as a fictional character, we only saw him create 2 universes. What suggests he has control over an infinite multiverse other than your opinion?

Again, what would make Morgan God above TOAA considering Morgan only created 2 universes, whereas TOAA created an infinite multiverse, other than your subjective opinion that is not supported by what is actually written and only supported by your figurative interpretation? FFS, God would be the infinite being if we're fictionalizing God/power-set for a Vs Match.

You've now thoroughly disgusted me. Good job!

Originally posted by dadudemon
And this post cuts to the chase. God created the universe by messing with the four fundamental forces. Q can do the same thing so they are equal in "omnipotence".

But here is where Q wins/loses: I believe Q's statement about changing the gravitational constant was ONLY a locally contained statement. Meaning, gravity would only change directly around that giant asteroid/comet rather than the entire universe else Q would inadvertently destroy the entire universe...which I do not think that was the point of his statement.

Depending upon your perspective, that means Q cannot affect things on a universal scale OR Q's powers are the same as God's but can be focused on a very tiny fraction of the universe (meaning, he can be far more precise). So it really does depend on your perspective of how far you think Q's powers can reach. If Q cannot affect things on a truly universal scale (meaning, we cannot commit a "no-limits fallacy", then he is outclassed by God in omnipotence.

You're either omnipotent or you're not. Quinn (the Q) said the Q were not really omnipotent.

Add that the Q can die, can be stripped of powers and have a finite IQ; seems Quinn ws correct about his own species.

No, you're wrong. He's only a being who can create at best 3 universes. You thinking he can extend that power over an infinite multiverse is nothing but your subjective interpretation, not actual scripture.

Completely rid yourself of the evil of religion, Rob. It infects and confuses those who do not fight it with enough strength.

Originally posted by Robtard
You're either omnipotent or you're not. Quinn (the Q) said the Q were not really omnipotent.

Add that the Q can die, can be stripped of powers and have a finite IQ; seems Quinn ws correct about his own species.

Well, I'll be glad for you to bring me the biblical quote where God says he has power over anything other than his fictional tri-verse that is in no way an infinite multiverse. Hell, find me the biblical verse where he says he is absolutely omnipotent, and not just a reality warping universe creator that can be easily outclassed by many other fictional beings. And unlimited power over 3 universes is something the Q can replicate....by easily creating 3 universes. Difference between God and Q. Q can create even more.


Only Q can hurt Q. And if God is unable to will himself to die, he's not omnipotent. As far as having a finite IQ:


So Morgan God clearly isn't omniscient or omnipotent.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
The idea that IQ has no cap begs for some evidence.

A being with infinite intelligence would be an infinite number of standard deviations away from the population average: infinite IQ. However, such a being would also alter the scale to make all scores useless because that's how the "Intelligence Quotient" works. lol

Soooo....I have no idea where the **** I was going with that. Real statisticians would throw out such a horribly skewy number, of course, so it would not truly mess with the population average for the purposes of creating a legitimate measuring system (such as the S&B 5).

Originally posted by Lestov16


So Morgan God clearly isn't omniscient or omnipotent.

A self imposed handicap; he was joking with Bruce.

Originally posted by Robtard
A self imposed handicap.

A strong and central tenet of Mormon beliefs...

Robtard...you Mormon, you. So when are we going to make smores and sing hymnals around a campfire?

Proof of that besides your interpretation?

God being the infinite being.

Because he said in the film he was the "infinite being", right? And he showed control over an infinite multiverse instead of a single one where he couldn't even affect free will, even though it would be a (for a being of his supposed power) simple matter of rearranging electrons, right?

Originally posted by dadudemon
And this post cuts to the chase. God created the universe by messing with the four fundamental forces. Q can do the same thing so they are equal in "omnipotence".

But here is where Q wins/loses: I believe Q's statement about changing the gravitational constant was ONLY a locally contained statement. Meaning, gravity would only change directly around that giant asteroid/comet rather than the entire universe else Q would inadvertently destroy the entire universe...which I do not think that was the point of his statement.

Depending upon your perspective, that means Q cannot affect things on a universal scale OR Q's powers are the same as God's but can be focused on a very tiny fraction of the universe (meaning, he can be far more precise). So it really does depend on your perspective of how far you think Q's powers can reach. If Q cannot affect things on a truly universal scale (meaning, we cannot commit a "no-limits fallacy", then he is outclassed by God in omnipotence.

It definitely seems more logical that it was just a precise localized use of his powers, rather than a limit. Even Bruce couldn't do this because when he moved the moon he caused floods.

Originally posted by Lestov16
Because he said in the film he was the "infinite being", right?

And he showed control over an infinite multiverse instead of a single deterministic one, right?

Morgan-God in fact did say so using different words. We went over this already.

That wasn't what the movie was about, it focused on God and Bruce. The Q never showed us they can eat vanilla ice-cream will sitting on a pinecone, are we then to believe they can't? No.

Originally posted by Lestov16
It definitely seems more logical that it was just a precise localized use of his powers, rather than a limit. Even Bruce couldn't do this because when he moved the moon he caused floods.

Bruce's powers were limited (in comparison) and he lacked the knowledge and foresight in using them(the lesson in the film). Morgan-God also easily did away with all of Bruce's ****ups.

So basically your interpretation and not what was ACTUALLY said.
Again, stop thinking figuratively.

It showed us a similar feat of them altering gravity and electromagnetism to walk on water, so it wouldn't be a stretch to assume they could eat vanilla ice cream while sitting on a pine cone. We didn't see any feats of them going beyond Bruce's single universe and heaven, so we have no reason to believe God has control over anything but those 2 universes. What you are assuming is a no-limits fallacy based only on your interpretation.

Circles and circles, dude. What Morgan-God said was posted; it was explained what the "I am the one..." inferred. You asked for Bible verse as proof/support; that was given too.

Seems you just want to argue for arguments sake and you've already disgusted me.

Exactly. Assumptions, and interpretations is all you have to support your argument because the actual objective feats show that Morgan is inferior to Q. Get the bible out of your ass, man.

Circles, exactly:

Originally posted by Robtard
Your argument is still: "Morgan-god didn't specifically claim he was omnipotent so he's not."

Morgan-God did though, he just said it differently.

Now if you excuse me, I'm going to have Mormon smores with DDM and then partake in the ass-orgy.

And you're basically applying a no-limits fallacy based on your interpretation instead of what was actual said or shown. Yes we are going in circles but I don't mind. This is one of the first good debates I've had in a while. I'm having fun disproving the Abrahamic God's (and by extension Bruce Almighty's) supposed omnipotence

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. Save me some smores, but please make them BEFORE the orgy. I don't want to think I'm biting into marshmallow and end up eating something else....

Originally posted by Robtard
Bruce's powers were limited (in comparison) and he lacked the knowledge and foresight in using them(the lesson in the film). Morgan-God also easily did away with all of Bruce's ****ups.

Yes, his powers were limited by God to just...was it New Jersey?

But Bruce bent the rules with shit like pulling the moon closer.

Originally posted by Lestov16
And you're basically applying a no-limits fallacy..

LOL!

I think that....when it comes to God (or Q)...the no-limits fallacy does not apply and cannot ever apply out of a necessity of their definitional qualities.

Originally posted by Lestov16
Completely rid yourself of the evil of religion, Rob. It infects and confuses those who do not fight it with enough strength. this was uncalled for

Originally posted by maxivitopowe
this was uncalled for

I agree. Robtard is atheist on most days and agnostic when really philosophically pressed on the issues so it was really not appropriate to say that to him.

I'm neither an atheist or agnostic (I guess technically agnostic, but I don't consider myself that). I completely believe in the existence of a higher power. But it's none of these bozo mythologies we've come up with so far. The only way to find the truth is to pursue science (because in order to see what is beyond we must first know where we are) and these obsolete religions are what is stopping humanity from reaching it's intellectual potential, not to mention fueling a lot of unnecessary conflict and death. So yeah it is kind of evil.

Institutionalized religion isn't the font of that sort of shit anyway

I have a gay brother who believes in that Christian bullshit despite the blatant horrific homophobia contained in the Bible. These obsolete religions (not the possibility of a higher power, but the obsolete religions we have hitherto fabricated) is really holding humanity back.

Originally posted by dadudemon
I agree. Robtard is atheist on most days and agnostic when really philosophically pressed on the issues so it was really not appropriate to say that to him.

I'm not an atheist, I just don't buy any of the mainstream religions views of God.

I'm more confident that there is a higher power than everything being a random set of events; I also have no idea exactly what that power is; it may not even be conscious as how we know it. So I'm closer to an Agnostic, if we have to use labels.

We've had this convo before, a few times, over the last 8-9 years.

Originally posted by Robtard
I'm not an atheist, I just don't buy any of the mainstream religions views of God.

I'm more confident that there is a higher power than everything being a random set of events; I also have no idea exactly what that power is; it may not even be conscious as how we know it. So I'm closer to an Agnostic, if we have to use labels.

We've had this convo before, a few times, over the last 8-9 years.

Uh-huh. And everything you stated is exactly why I stated what I did.

You're functionally an atheist and only if pressed do you bring out some agnostic leanings.


Edit - You're a "Weak Pantheist", really.

Nah.

Originally posted by Lestov16
I have a gay brother who believes in that Christian bullshit despite the blatant horrific homophobia contained in the Bible. These obsolete religions (not the possibility of a higher power, but the obsolete religions we have hitherto fabricated) is really holding humanity back. so what people can choose to believe what they want

Me personally I couldn't give a **** about institutionalised religion, cos Roman catholic primary school (elementary?) ****ed me over for dealing with high school and all the ****ed up shit I keep on hearing about the priests.

But that doesn't give me free reign to shit over another persons belief (even if that person isn't that strong in religion)

Originally posted by maxivitopowe
so what people can choose to believe what they want

Me personally I couldn't give a **** about institutionalised religion, cos Roman catholic primary school (elementary?) ****ed me over for dealing with high school and all the ****ed up shit I keep on hearing about the priests.

But that doesn't give me free reign to shit over another persons belief (even if that person isn't that strong in religion)

Dude, just shut up and go away, no one was even talking to you and your constantly spouting off utter nonsense, you can't spell or debate, think with a brain or do anything worth that amounts to a pile of garbage. You really should be banned as Kaz said.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Uh-huh. And everything you stated is exactly why I stated what I did.

You're functionally an atheist and only if pressed do you bring out some agnostic leanings.


Edit - You're a "Weak Pantheist", really.

Not really. He described himself similar to how I described myself. He believes in a higher power, just none of the current religions. He is clearly thus not an atheist. Maybe, that qualifies as agnostic, but that's arguable. He's not a pantheist because he admittedly doesn't know if "God" is either a sentient being or a metaphysical system, either one of which could possibly be applicable.

Originally posted by maxivitopowe
so what people can choose to believe what they want

Freedom of opinion doesn't mean "Freedom to be ignorant of scientifically-discovered empirical objective facts of physical reality in favor of an obsolete geocentric theory." To believe so would be to wallow in ignorance and be the most horrifying form of self-delusion.

Originally posted by Lestov16
Not really. He described himself similar to how I described myself. He believes in a higher power, just none of the current religions. He is clearly thus not an atheist. Maybe, that qualifies as agnostic, but that's arguable. He's not a pantheist because he admittedly doesn't know if "God" is either a sentient being or a metaphysical system, either one of which could possibly be applicable.

No, what I said. Just refer to my posts for my replies.

You're an atheist, broooooo. You're in the same category as Richard Dawkins who also admits in the possibility of a higher power.

Nah. Atheism implies outright complete disbelief in a higher power (or "God", thus why it's name means "without gods".

If Dawkins believes in the existence of a higher power, that qualifies him as an agnostic, not an atheist. And unlike Dawkins who believes it's a possibility, I believe a higher metaphysical power is 100% objective fact. We just haven't discovered it's true nature yet because we're being bogged down by these obsolete religions.

Originally posted by marwash22
i concede nothing because like i already said, i don't know anything about Q.

answer the question tho:
I guess that going by that definition, Galactus can be called omnipotent.

Forget Galactus, Disney's Genie is an omnipotent.

Nevermind the fact that Q has performed an identical feat. Or the fact that Bruce was NOT omnipotent, as evidenced by the limitations God placed on his abilities.

Being the creator of a universe is not proof of omnipotence. If I decided to list the number of characters in fiction that can create universes, (and should hence be called omnipotent), I'd go bonkers.

Originally posted by Robtard
Mouth won the thread with that. Screen feats. Good job, mouth

Also you ST tourist, the Q can die.

God > death.
Screenfeats indicate Q's superiority though.

By Q-made weapons.

That's a no-limits-fallacy.

Originally posted by Robtard
Incorrect. The Q where once like humanity (humanoids) and evolved into their state. IIRC, Quinn (a Q) tells us this.
Quinn was a heretic who hated his race, so I don't know how much precedence should be given to his words. Regardless, the Q definitely predate the STverse, and have been in their godlike state for such a long time that it may as well count as being forever.

Lol, I said that people were gonna drag the bible into this debate and that is exactly what's happened here.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
The Q are omnipotent in comparison to humans, that doesn't mean they're all powerful.
Along with the organians, douwd, the Prophets etc.

Unlike the Almightyverse, the Trekverse has actual superpowered species that possess godlike capabilities themselves. And the Q are supposed to be well beyond even these species.

Originally posted by dadudemon
And this post cuts to the chase. God created the universe by messing with the four fundamental forces. Q can do the same thing so they are equal in "omnipotence".

But here is where Q wins/loses: I believe Q's statement about changing the gravitational constant was ONLY a locally contained statement. Meaning, gravity would only change directly around that giant asteroid/comet rather than the entire universe else Q would inadvertently destroy the entire universe...which I do not think that was the point of his statement.

Depending upon your perspective, that means Q cannot affect things on a universal scale OR Q's powers are the same as God's but can be focused on a very tiny fraction of the universe (meaning, he can be far more precise). So it really does depend on your perspective of how far you think Q's powers can reach. If Q cannot affect things on a truly universal scale (meaning, we cannot commit a "no-limits fallacy", then he is outclassed by God in omnipotence.
Q stated that Amanda Rogers could accidentally end up destroying the entire galaxy if she wasn't taught how to control her abilities. Q Jr admitted that he has unlimited control over space, time and matter. The universe is literally a Q's playground.

God dammit, Epicurus. I was waiting for your assistance all yesterday. Had to debate the thread by my lonesome

Originally posted by Epicurus
Lol, I said that people were gonna drag the bible into this debate and that is exactly what's happened here.

TBF, it's not like the biblical God can contend with the Q either. Both He and Morweh lose

Originally posted by Lestov16
Nah. Atheism implies outright complete disbelief in a higher power (or "God", thus why it's name means "without gods".

That's not true. You're using a very specific and niche definition of atheism, good sir!

You may want others who identify as atheist to fit your definition, but that is just not how it works. Almost all atheists (any worth their weight in salt) will admit to and concede in the possibility of a higher power. Ask Digi: he identifies as atheist but admits to a weaker version of Robtard's position.

Originally posted by Lestov16
If Dawkins believes in the existence of a higher power, that qualifies him as an agnostic, not an atheist.

Incorrect on 2 parts:

1. He believes in the possibility, not an actual solid belief. He identifies as atheist but only if pressed will he concede that it is a form of atheistic agnosticism.
2. Let's pretend what you said is true of Dawkins: you're still incorrect. That makes him a theist of some sort. Usually, those types are pantheists.

Originally posted by Lestov16
And unlike Dawkins who believes it's a possibility, I believe a higher metaphysical power is 100% objective fact. We just haven't discovered it's true nature yet because we're being bogged down by these obsolete religions.

You are not agnostic, then. You are a gnostic theist. Congratulations: you share the same space with people like suicide bombers, Moses, Joseph Smith, and David Koresh.

I gotta head down to Waco then. There's a burning building with my name on it.

Originally posted by Epicurus
Q stated that Amanda Rogers could accidentally end up destroying the entire galaxy if she wasn't taught how to control her abilities. Q Jr admitted that he has unlimited control over space, time and matter. The universe is literally a Q's playground.

So is it settled, then? The Q are not only omnipotent but they have an even better version of omnipotence than God (locally changing the gravitational constant rather than on a universal scale)?

Originally posted by Lestov16
I gotta head down to Waco then. There's a burning building with my name on it.

I hear they have great punch.

Damn....daaamn...that was bad.

Hey, I joke about mass deaths all the time. Just the other day, I walked into a high school with a trenchcoat and toy AK47. Everybody got a huge laugh

You people are all going to hell.

I already called shotgun.

We'll I'm driving with my foot shoved on the gas, so I got no problem with it.

Originally posted by Epicurus
Q stated that Amanda Rogers could accidentally end up destroying the entire galaxy if she wasn't taught how to control her abilities. Q Jr admitted that he has unlimited control over space, time and matter.

The universe is literally a Q's playground.

Bruce almighty showed galaxy destroying powers when he started creating/erasing stars from constellations and he wasn't nearly as powerful as Morgan-God who still had overall control.

Morgan-God literally created the universe.

Originally posted by dadudemon
So is it settled, then? The Q are not only omnipotent but they have an even better version of omnipotence than God (locally changing the gravitational constant rather than on a universal scale)?

nope

Originally posted by Robtard
Bruce almighty showed galaxy destroying powers when he started creating/erasing stars from constellations and he wasn't nearly as powerful as Morgan-God who still had overall control.

Morgan-God literally created the universe.



nope

Q can also literally create universes, but unlike God, they can create more than a mere 3

Yep. Movie might have said different, but trust me, God Is Dead

Lots of people are going to hell.

We are already in Hell. Do you think creepazoids like Quan could actually exist on Earth?

Yes

Originally posted by Lestov16
Q can also literally create universes, but unlike God, they can create more than a mere 3

Yep. Movie might have said different, but trust me, God Is Dead

Can Q create life? Which 4 universes was he shown to create?

"Qpid"- creates a universe with a replica of medieval Nottingham and the characters of Robin Hood
"Tapestry"- creates an afterlife-like universe in which he phucks around with Picard
"All Good Things"- creates a courtroom like dimension
"Hide and Q"- Riker uses powers to resurrect the dead


That's 3 universes and an instance of creating/resurrecting life right right there. And done with a lot more ease than Morgan showed.

Originally posted by Lestov16
Q can also literally create universes, but unlike God, they can create more than a mere 3

Yep. Movie might have said different, but trust me, God Is Dead

it isn't established that he is limited to 3

So because a limit wasn't stated, it doesn't exist? Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. And it would seem logical to assume that's his limit because Yahweh refers to his little tri-dimension as "everything that ever was, is, and will be", so clearly everything he is capable of creating only exists in that tri-dimension.

Originally posted by Lestov16
"Qpid"- creates a universe with a replica of medieval Nottingham and the characters of Robin Hood
"Tapestry"- creates an afterlife-like universe in which he phucks around with Picard
"All Good Things"- creates a courtroom like dimension
"Hide and Q"- Riker uses powers to resurrect the dead


That's 3 universes and an instance of creating/resurrecting life right right there. And done with a lot more ease than Morgan showed.

It sounds more like elaborate tricks then actually anything really taking place

"Qpid"- creates a universe with a replica of medieval Nottingham and the characters of Robin Hood
"Tapestry"- creates an afterlife-like universe in which he phucks around with Picard
"All Good Things"- creates a courtroom like dimension

Re read those "dimensions", nothing is actually being created. More of an elaborate illusion or hoax.

God created all life and actual real things stars and planets and 3 actual universes.

Not really. Star Trek already has illusions, aka holodecks. Unless you're stating that they are "illusions" made of particles that are not the matter and energy we know of, which really just makes it even more impressive. That being stated, nothing suggests it was an illusion. They all seem like alternate universes which Q is creating to use as his playground.

Originally posted by Lestov16
Not really. Star Trek already has illusions, aka holodecks. Unless you're stating that they are "illusions" made of particles that are not the matter and energy we know of, which really just makes it even more impressive. That being stated, nothing suggests it was an illusion. They all seem like alternate universes which Q is creating to use as his playground.

Well the ones you speak of seem nothing more then another one of those Holodeck rooms they have on enterprise where they can create anything without anything actually being created. The universes God created are complete and endless with living creatures. The ones you described were made to screw with Picard, not what I would call a "real" universe. Q was never really honest about anything and he later on stated that he was neither immortal or omnipotent.

It would seem like he was a powerful being but so was Lucifer and Satan, they were so powerful and had been given so much power, they thought they were God, but when it came time to try and take the thrown, they soon realized that in fact they were not God and could not kill him or out power him.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Well the ones you speak of seem nothing more then another one of those Holodeck rooms they have on enterprise where they can create anything without anything actually being created. The universes God created are complete and endless with living creatures. The ones you described were made to screw with Picard, not what I would call a "real" universe. Q was never really honest about anything and he later on stated that he was neither immortal or omnipotent.

It would seem like he was a powerful being but so was Lucifer and Satan, they were so powerful and had been given so much power, they thought they were God, but when it came time to try and take the thrown, they soon realized that in fact they were not God and could not kill him or out power him.

It was an alternate spacetime continuum with matter, energy, and physical laws. Qualifies as a universe. And there is no way in hell Q's universes were simple holodeck replications, unless they make holodecks that can interact with the dead, like the afterlife dimension. i don't think that's likely.

WTF does Lucifer and Satan have to do with anything. I don't recall them creating alternate dimensions. Best I remember Satan doing was testing Job and failing to tempt Jesus. WEAK.

Originally posted by Lestov16
Q can also literally create universes, but unlike God, they can create more than a mere 3

Yep. Movie might have said different, but trust me, God Is Dead

No way of knowing that, could have all been complex illusions to **** with the Picard.

Okay, Nietzsche.

Complex illusions made of what? They certainly weren't holograms. And what proof do you even have that they were illusions? They were never stated to be, and nothing else the Q have ever done were described as mere illusions. It's certainly more logical to think that a race of extradimensional beings who can rewrite physical laws and constants, resurrect the dead, and time travel ( pretty much a ST version of a 5d imp) have the power to alternate universes than it is to think they're limited to casting mere illusions.

Age of the Ubermensch, motherphucker.

Made of pure butthurt.

Nietzscheisms lead to Hitler. Why do you want to be like Hitler?

Pointing out an obvious logical conclusion is "butthurt"? Calm down, kemosabe

A guy I think was Jewish stepped on my shoe once in a crowded food court. It was the ultimate insult.

Wasn't calling you butthurt, chief

My apologies, then. I understand the joke now. It's the Nazi in me.

Originally posted by Lestov16
Complex illusions made of what? They certainly weren't holograms. And what proof do you even have that they were illusions? They were never stated to be, and nothing else the Q have ever done were described as mere illusions. It's certainly more logical to think that a race of extradimensional beings who can rewrite physical laws and constants, resurrect the dead, and time travel ( pretty much a ST version of a 5d imp) have the power to alternate universes than it is to think they're limited to casting mere illusions.

Age of the Ubermensch, motherphucker.

Anything Q could do, God could do, only difference is Q can lose his power and die according to himself.

By the power of paradox, if God can not will himself to die, he is not omnipotent. And again, only Q can hurt Q.

Originally posted by Lestov16
My apologies, then. I understand the joke now. It's the Nazi in me. Dummy.

Originally posted by Lestov16
Complex illusions made of what? They certainly weren't holograms. And what proof do you even have that they were illusions? They were never stated to be, and nothing else the Q have ever done were described as mere illusions. It's certainly more logical to think that a race of extradimensional beings who can rewrite physical laws and constants, resurrect the dead, and time travel ( pretty much a ST version of a 5d imp) have the power to alternate universes than it is to think they're limited to casting mere illusions.

Age of the Ubermensch, motherphucker.

I do not disagree with your point about Q being able to create universes. But let me better explain their position so you can see what they mean:

Since it was not clarified, the "brain in a vat" scenario is just as likely an explanation for what is happening as the "created an entirely separate but temporary universe" explanation. In the 6th season, 15th episode (Tapestry)*, it is directly seen that that is exactly what Q is doing: creating an illusion that affects Picard's mind. Picard's body still remains on the medical table but his "mind" is having "fun" with Q.

So, yes, it COULD be an illusion/mind trick. Q really is THE master of illusions in the Star Trek-verse.


But I agree with you that he created universes, even if they were very tiny in comparison to ours. Here is why: if he can change any of the four fundamental forces (gravitational constant, for example), he can create his own universes with ease.




*By the way, that was one of the very best episodes of any Star Trek TV show. For me, it is a top-20, for sure.

Originally posted by Lestov16
By the power of paradox, if God can not will himself to die, he is not omnipotent. And again, only Q can hurt Q.

Only Q can hurt Q? Maybe in that verse..this isn't Star Trek though, its a forum battle. Where does it say anywhere that God cannot will himself to die, and actually he did, it was Jesus Christ.

Well if only Q can hurt Q, and there's no Q trying to hurt Q here, means the Q can't be hurt, especially by some miniscule tri-versal being when they rule over a much larger infinite multiverse, and thus have a lot more power behind them.

Originally posted by Lestov16
Well if only Q can hurt Q, and there's no Q trying to hurt Q here, means the Q can't be hurt, especially by some miniscule tri-versal being when they rule over a much larger infinite multiverse, and thus have a lot more power behind them.

In a forum battle anyone can hurt anyone, there is no law stating Q is indestructible on a forum battle. I would not call God a minuscule tri-versal being, and if you want to state infinities, no where has it been stated that God can be hurt..by anyone..or anything.

You're right. You need a being at least on the level of a Q. Yahweh don't cut it based on screenfeats and scripture.

Originally posted by Lestov16
You're right. You need a being at least on the level of a Q. Yahweh don't cut it based on screenfeats and scripture.

From what I saw in the movie he can do whatever he want's and the movie character is based off a book, so it makes it valid.

Originally posted by Robtard
Bruce almighty showed galaxy destroying powers when he started creating/erasing stars from constellations and he wasn't nearly as powerful as Morgan-God who still had overall control.

Morgan-God literally created the universe.
Destroying stars isn't galaxy-destroying power. AFAIK, it is just that, destroying stars.

Which is a feat beyond Q's capabilities how exactly? IIRC, any universal scale reality manipulator can do that, and last I checked, a Q is a universal scale reality manipulator.
Originally posted by Lestov16
Q can also literally create universes, but unlike God, they can create more than a mere 3.
When did Morweh create 3 universes?

I was including Biblical God there Morweh was limited to 2 universes, Heaven, and the realm of Earth.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
From what I saw in the movie he can do whatever he want's and the movie character is based off a book, so it makes it valid.

Yeah...no. Based on the movie, Morweh is inferior to Q, and based on the Bible, he is still inferior to Q. Nothing he did in either is beyond a Q's power. Matter of fact, the Q have better feats. Your only stance is biased speculation with no empirical evidence to support it.

Originally posted by Lestov16
I was including Biblical God there Morweh was limited to 2 universes, Heaven, and the realm of Earth.



Yeah...no. Based on the movie, Morweh is inferior to Q, and based on the Bible, he is still inferior to Q. Nothing he did in either is beyond a Q's power. Matter of fact, the Q have better feats. Your only stance is biased speculation with no empirical evidence to support it.

Heaven, Hell, Earth, Universe would be 4.

Where is Q's life creation ability, and still the feats your shown were Hoax's and tricks played on Picard.

I just don't see the raw power you speak off. If Q can in fact die from his equals then in a forum fight God would be that who could also kill. But none has shown to kill God correct?

Earth doesn't exist in the same universe....as the universe? WTF????

When he created the characters of Sherwood Forest. they were sentient lifeforms that he created...thus life creation. Not to mention he can resurrect the dead, which further backs the claims. And this is hilarious now Before, it was a possibility that they were illusions, but now, even though you've provided no empirical evidence to back your stance, they definitely are, even though I backed my stance and as I stated before, it would be more logical to think that they just actually are that powerful.

What makes a tri-versal being equal to an infinite-multiversal being other than your subjective interpretation and nothing that was actually written or said in the Bible or film? you seem really biased, dude.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
In a forum battle anyone can hurt anyone,

no where has it been stated that God can be hurt..by anyone..or anything.

Hypocrisy, thy name is Time Immemorial

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
I would not call God a minuscule tri-versal being
How many universes did he create? Only 3. What does everything that was is and will be, thus everything God was capable of creating consist of? 3 universes. How many universes are in the scientifically accurate Star Trek multiverse? INFINITE. Who can time travel, thus allowing them to visit these alternate worlds, and given they all share the same physical laws, thus control? The Q. Who create universes, including a "heaven"(Picard's afterlife) and an "Earth" (Sherwood Forest), and even resurrect the dead like Jesus, thus replicating everything God did in Bruce Almighty or the Bible? The Q. What does that make God? At best tri-versal. What does that make Q? Infinite multiversal. Using logical reasoning, who is more powerful? The Q.

@Time Immemorial:

This is your thread. You can set the stips. If you feel feats should be limited to on-screen-only (as we say in the comic forums, on-panel feats only, no inferring regarding powersets), then Lestov is right.

However, you may feel that the character of "God" is so well established, from so many other sources, that inferring what He can do, beyond on-screen feats, is legit.

This is your thread. In effect, here, You are God.

Originally posted by Lestov16
I was including Biblical God there Morweh was limited to 2 universes, Heaven, and the realm of Earth.
Where was it mentioned that Heaven is dissassociated with the rest of the universe?