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LEGENDS:
-The Sith Emperor
-Hero of Tython
-Darth Bane (RoT)
-vs-
CANON:
-Darth Sidious (RotS)
-Grand Master Yoda
-Mace Windu

Team 2.

Team 2 by something of a long shot. Mace vs Hero is a close battle, but Yoda would trash Vitiate and Sidious is still a tier above Bane.

What does legends mean?

So your saying no characters except the movie characters and clone wars characters are canon? Your saying the entire EU is non-canon?

yes lol

Legends stomp. Without EU feats, team two is weaker here.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Legends stomp. Without EU feats, team two is weaker here.

Without counting the EU the Legends team doesn't exist, except Bane of course.

PT team wins, easily.

Swtor is non-canon?

Originally posted by JediMaster97
Without counting the EU the Legends team doesn't exist, except Bane of course.

PT team wins, easily.

U mad?

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Legends stomp. Without EU feats, team two is weaker here.


Originally posted by JediMaster97
Without counting the EU the Legends team doesn't exist, except Bane of course.

PT team wins, easily.


And the mess begins!

Originally posted by PTforthewin
What does legends mean?

It's the new name for all~l existing EU.




But by using Legends, we're explicitly using EU. That's what Legends is.

Okay here is what legends is every one, its not canon but its not non-canon, its Disney saying yes this might be canon but we have the rights to change shit around if we see fit. Legends is between canon and non-canon...all the book you read there just legends,

Nah I'm pretty sure it's non-canon...

Originally posted by King Joker
Nah I'm pretty sure it's non-canon...

no there in between canon and non- canon

Just because Disney can use ideas/concepts etc from it dosent mean it's in between...

People are so dumb.

Some of Palpatine's best combat related force showings are in TCW and ROTS. Considering Yoda is his equal in combat, and seeing how vaapad no longer exists, perhaps Mace is just naturally as fast as Sidious (or at least fast enough to keep up until he can find an opening to exploit), thus making the new canon Windu even greater than he was in the EU, which should make this an even easier win for the PT characters.


Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Legends stomp.


Can you list some combat related feats for the Legends characters to prove your assertion? This would exclude Vitiate's mysterious off-screen/off-panel feats since he's seemingly unable to perform them while onscreen/on-panel, in actual combat.

What are the best feats the Canon guys have, in canonical material?

Genuine question btw.

Sidious blitzed 3 council members, stomped the Maul Bros, and then killed the second best Jedi with his FL, then proceeded to defeat the strongest known Jedi in the canon mythos.

Bane canonically exists only as an illusion conjured by the Force Priestesses and can be dismissed with mere words. His teammates don't exist.

Canon stomps.

This is Legends vs Canon. They still exist in Legends.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Sidious blitzed 3 council members, stomped the Maul Bros, and then killed the second best Jedi with his FL, then proceeded to defeat the strongest known Jedi in the canon mythos.



Blitzing the Council members isn't impressive since they have no speed feats any more and Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan are the only ones with actual superspeed in the whole mythos.

Impressive TK, but he'll need more than that against these guys.

Killing someone with lightning. Gee, wow. So hes about on par with Korriban Nox then.

Yoda's canon showings are weak as shit. Also he's no longer the most powerful Jedi EVAR because all the sources that said he was are non-canon.

Sidious easily force owned Maul and Savage simultaneously, telekinetically dominated Dooku from a distance of lightyears, speed blitzed three jedi masters (the first two were unable to react), casually force ripped several senate pods from their restraints and used them as projectiles, and has knocked Yoda unconscious with a single short blast of lightning.

Yoda is basically Palpatine's overall equal in combat. He has survived a telepathic assault from Sidious and Dooku, while he was on Moraband, a planet strong with the dark side. Then there's the time he paralyzed Ventress with a gesture and then disarmed her, but that's not even worth mentioning considering he is on par with Sidious, who can practically dominate just about every force user of his era with just the force alone.

Windu doesn't have much. He has reduced several destroyer droids to scrap with a mere force push, telekinetically slammed a huge flat metal object with enough force to smash a separatist vehicle, force pushed an AT-TE walker over a cliff, and matched Sidious in speed.

Trying to think of more, but that's all I can recall for now.

Woot.

Not seeing any feats for the Legends characters, just failed attempts to lowball the canon character feats.

You're adorable.

Thanks. Its cuz my mom was a kitty and my dad was a teletubby.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Not seeing any feats for the Legends characters, just failed attempts to lowball the canon character feats.

I would think that everyone knows these guys feats.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I would think that everyone knows these guys feats.


Vitiate running into a lightsaber, getting tossed on his ass twice by Revan?

His best feat is overpowering four jedi with two prolonged lightning attacks, with some of the jedi tanking it for some seconds, with two others pushing through the lightning by blocking it with their sabers before finally being overpowered it. Wow.

Oh, yeah, and there's a bunch of stuff he does off-screen. Why must he be so shy?

So buttmad.

Canon Sidious has no telepathy defense, Vitiate instantly pwns him.

Didn't somebody say that Vitiate's telepathy required prep and was generally unavailable to him in the midst of combat?

Drew.

Yeah, the guy who created Vitiate.

Not that it matters: Vitiate doesn't exist canonically.

Drew said it unofficially but that he didn't know what the actual facts were.

Vitiate insta-pwned Scourge in Revan, he can do the same to Canon Sids.

Dey mad.

so mad

Originally posted by Nephthys
So buttmad.

Canon Sidious has no telepathy defense, Vitiate instantly pwns him.


Like he instantly pwnd Revan?

That's right, he was thrown across the room, which broke the telepathic connection. Then proceeded to struggle to kill Revan with lightning.

Sidious casually overpowers Dooku from a distance of lightyears, force dominates both Maul and Savage at the same time while laughing and enjoying himself. Vitiate struggles and fails to kill Revan, but somehow he's going to overcome Sidious. lol

Revan specifically came up with a defense against Vitiate after already getting pwned in the past.

Sidious hasn't. Sidious gets the Scourge treatment and whimpers on the floor like a little baby while his allies get slaughtered.

Nah. Sidious speed blitzes Palpatine.
Vitiate has no speed feats. http://images.killermovies.com/forums/customsmilies/excellent.gif

Also, when I said "Canon" in my head I was including "Legends" so my mistake for not clarifying. To late now I guess.

Sidious isn't closing the gap before Vitiate thinks of TPing him.

You mean with the long preparation that is required?
***** please, Sidious will close the gap before Vitiate can scream for his Imperial Guard. Then Sidious will personally find the Imperial Guard, and solo them all while drinking a space martini.

Must I even point out, it takes Vitiate a little while to even begin to try to TP Revan the second time. Revan had the time to summon a huge force blast while the Emperor was trying to TP him. Sidious can easily close the gap during this.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Nah. Sidious speed blitzes Palpatine.
Vitiate has no speed feats. http://images.killermovies.com/forums/customsmilies/excellent.gif

Also, when I said "Canon" in my head I was including "Legends" so my mistake for not clarifying. To late now I guess.
Sidious commits suicide because Vitiate's not fast enough to stop him?

Sidious commits suicide because he felt bad over how badly he whooped Vitiate's ass.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
You mean with the long preparation that is required?
***** please, Sidious will close the gap before Vitiate can scream for his Imperial Guard. Then Sidious will personally find the Imperial Guard, and solo them all while drinking a space martini.

No. With the speed of thought.

No. Canon Sids has no speed. None of the Strike Team could reach Vitiate before he Force pwned them, Sidious isn't either.

Anyway, I hope this discussion is highlighting how dumb and annoying it is to seperate Legends and Canon like this. This is the EU forum, we should be including everything like we did less than a week ago.

Because toying with Maul and Savage and speed blitzing three Council Members isn't speed?

Must I even point out, it takes Vitiate a little while to even begin to try to TP Revan the second time. Revan had the time to summon a huge force blast while the Emperor was trying to TP him. Sidious can easily close the gap during this.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Sidious commits suicide because he felt bad over how badly he whooped Vitiate's ass.
No I was playing off of the error you made in your statement where you said Sidious speedblitzes Palpatine, because Vitiate has no speed feats.

Originally posted by Nephthys
This is the EU forum, we should be including everything like we did less than a week ago.
TRUTH

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Because toying with Maul and Savage and speed blitzing three Council Members isn't speed?

Must I even point out, it takes Vitiate a little while to even begin to try to TP Revan the second time. Revan had the time to summon a huge force blast while the Emperor was trying to TP him. Sidious can easily close the gap during this.

Yes to the first and I'm not sure he even blitzed them anymore. Canonically.

Because Revan created a defense against Vitiate like I said. Sidious' mind is unprotected.

Originally posted by Nephthys
so mad

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a76/mightyjalapeno/shinyshatner-1.gif

Proof he "created a defense" because it just seemed like his plan was to unleash a force blast.

Yes, don't act like I haven't read the Revan book 4 times.
1 for reading it
2 for Scourge accoaldes
3 for Revan accoaldes
4 for the love of Revan

However, is Revan not referring to his TK? Because his "trick" was Force spam.

Originally posted by Nephthys
No. With the speed of thought.

No. Canon Sids has no speed. None of the Strike Team could reach Vitiate before he Force pwned them, Sidious isn't either.

Anyway, I hope this discussion is highlighting how dumb and annoying it is to seperate Legends and Canon like this. This is the EU forum, we should be including everything like we did less than a week ago.

I imagine the thread creator should have the option to specify, such as old rules, new rules, canon only, Legends only, etc. That's only fair.

But eventually, nu-EU will throw things off again. It's a band-aid.

I'm thread creator, ha.
Sidious has his feat's from "Legends".
/thread

Originally posted by Nephthys
Revan specifically came up with a defense against Vitiate after already getting pwned in the past.

Sidious hasn't. Sidious gets the Scourge treatment and whimpers on the floor like a little baby while his allies get slaughtered.


What Revan did to Vitiate was not a defense against the attack, otherwise Vitiate would not have been able to probe his mind, which he did. The dark presence Revan felt entering his mind was Vitiate telepathically connecting to his mind. What Revan did, was a counter attack against Vitiate's telepathic assault, which was successful in breaking the connection.

If the attack happens instantly, then Revan should have been dominated the instant Vitiate connected to his mind, which he wasn't. The attack is not instantaneously, which is why Revan retaliated with the dark side/light side combo, which was nothing more than using both sides of the force to use TK against Vitiate.

Why do you think Vitiate didn't try that again against the jedi strike team? He overpowered them first with lightning.

Please, Scourge is a weak willed who already fears Vitiate to begin with. Furthermore, doesn't Vitiate have some sort of force bond with Scourge? Doesn't he already have control over his mind?

While then in the actual fight, he shows "I can shield my mind" by just using telekinesis on Vitiate.
However, that is not the point. The point is Vitiate cannot close the gap in a couple micro seconds.

If you count the time I skimmed the entire book to find a quote about Meetra, you can count 5.

I was under the assumption his resistance was rather Vitiate just taking a while to crack him .

Originally posted by Nephthys
Yes to the first and I'm not sure he even blitzed them anymore. Canonically.


Sidious did speed blitz them. Why else were they unable to react? How is still accepting the movies as canon change the fact that Sidious blitzed them? It was in the movies in which this feat was performed, not the EU. I've posted a commentary of Ian McDiarmid stating that his character was suppose to be 100 times faster than any jedi when discussing that scene. Sidious was intended to be faster than any jedi, with only Mace and Yoda being able to compete as per Lucas. Nothing about that feat has changed.

You going out of your way to try to dismiss it on account of Vitiate, or hardly any EU character for that matter, being unable to replicate such speed, is no different than LeGenD's way of debating (which says a lot because I actually thought highly of you as a debater). You're mad at the fact that even limiting Sidious feats to just his movie and TCW cartoon feats is still not enough to water him down; even without his EU feats, he's still the most dominant sith in terms of combat lol.

Calm down dude. I'm not attacking Sidious. I'm trying to point out how stupid it is to seperate canon and legends and still do these threads. No need to get so mad at me, Ant has already said that Sidious' legends feats are in.

I'm pretty sure I'm not the mad one here.

https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4149/5046091402_029de93f24.jpg

http://lounge.moviecodec.com/images/attachment/goku-vs-yusuke-28732.jpg

http://i940.photobucket.com/albums/ad250/BIGLOU123/why-he-mad-tho.jpg

http://www.troll.me/images/little-cup-guy/butt-hurt-ass-pained-pooper-peeved-anally-agitated-rectum-ravaged-booty-barraged-ass-assassinated-prostate-pained-back-door-bombarded-shithole-slain-colon-crucified-u-so-mad.jpg

Originally posted by Nephthys
Calm down dude. I'm not attacking Sidious. I'm trying to point out how stupid it is to seperate canon and legends and still do these threads. No need to get so mad at me, Ant has already said that Sidious' legends feats are in.

I'm pretty sure I'm not the mad one here.


I'm not mad at you. I'm just disappointed.

What's the point in debating with you if you're going to discard feats without any logical explanation? Regardless of whether or not Ant changed the stipulations, you were still willing to dismiss a feat just because you didn't like it.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
I'm not mad at you. I'm just disappointed.

What's the point in debating with you if you're going to discard feats without any logical explanation? Regardless of whether or not Ant changed the stipulations, you were still willing to dismiss a feat just because you didn't like it.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-tydlwtKIuB8/TVgYIrUtVSI/AAAAAAAAAyA/aPxhFLU3_6E/s400/missed_the_point.jpg

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-tydlwtKIuB8/TVgYIrUtVSI/AAAAAAAAAyA/aPxhFLU3_6E/s400/missed_the_point.jpg


A non-existing point can't be missed. Unless you're referring to Neph's complaint on using Legend characters vs canon characters, which wasn't my point: something you must have missed.

BTW, Neph, I ain't going to lie, you did play a part in ruining my buzz, which is easy to do depending on how hard I'm buzzing.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Sidious blitzed 3 council members, stomped the Maul Bros, and then killed the second best Jedi with his FL, then proceeded to defeat the strongest known Jedi in the canon mythos.

Windu could have killed palpatine and destroyed the sith if it wasn't for whiny hayden

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
A non-existing point can't be missed. Unless you're referring to Neph's complaint on using Legend characters vs canon characters, which wasn't my point: something you must have missed.

BTW, Neph, I ain't going to lie, you did play a part in ruining my buzz, which is easy to do depending on how hard I'm buzzing.

So you're buzzing? This explains your antsy behavior about your waifu, Sidious.

Not much. But I was irritated before the little debate with Neph, which he seemed to be irritated with. His irritation just irritated me even further.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Not much. But I was irritated before the little debate with Neph, which he seemed to be irritated with. His irritation just irritated me even further.

It's okay, rage becomes us all at some point.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
I'm not mad at you. I'm just disappointed.

What's the point in debating with you if you're going to discard feats without any logical explanation? Regardless of whether or not Ant changed the stipulations, you were still willing to dismiss a feat just because you didn't like it.

Ow, that stings.

I assure you, I would have had logical explanations had we continued to discuss it. I don't dismiss things because I don't like them, with the exception of incredibly retarded things.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Considering Yoda is his equal in combat, and seeing how vaapad no longer exists, perhaps Mace is just naturally as fast as Sidious (or at least fast enough to keep up until he can find an opening to exploit), thus making the new canon Windu even greater than he was in the EU, which should make this an even easier win for the PT characters.




Well even in official canon since Dooku kept up with Yoda's speed in AOTC, it makes sense Windu wouldn't just be blitzed by Sidious.

And I've always argued Windu's win over Sidious was context specific anyway, and not just down to "VAPAAD BEATS ALL DARKSIDERS!" Dave Filoni argued with Kenobi vs Maul Brothers, that every fight is different, and whilst Obi-Wan and Ventress were going to lose to Maul and Opress in One specific fight, Kenobi alone wasn't going to lose to both Brothers in another specific situation.

So the 2nd most powerful Jedi defeated Sidious in one specific situation, where the 3 Council members probably aided more so than it appeared. But later the Most Powerful Jedi failed to defeat the Emperor in a one on one, with no distractions by other combatants and with plenty of opportunity to use their full Force powers against each other.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Well even in official canon since Dooku kept up with Yoda's speed in AOTC, it makes sense Windu wouldn't just be blitzed by Sidious.

And I've always argued Windu's win over Sidious was context specific anyway, and not just down to "VAPAAD BEATS ALL DARKSIDERS!" Dave Filoni argued with Kenobi vs Maul Brothers, that every fight is different, and whilst Obi-Wan and Ventress were going to lose to Maul and Opress in One specific fight, Kenobi alone wasn't going to lose to both Brothers in another specific situation.

So the 2nd most powerful Jedi defeated Sidious in one specific situation, where the 3 Council members probably aided more so than it appeared. But later the Most Powerful Jedi failed to defeat the Emperor in a one on one, with no distractions by other combatants and with plenty of opportunity to use their full Force powers against each other.

Even without specific names for their styles, people are just better match ups for each other. They fight differently even when not speaking of specific martial arts, so Mace still could be just better suited still.

Originally posted by Lek Kuen
Even without specific names for their styles, people are just better match ups for each other. They fight differently even when not speaking of specific martial arts, so Mace still could be just better suited still.


That's true. Lucas says in the ROTS audio commentary that every Jedi fights with a different style. And I think TCW has been respectful to the forms in a lot of ways. They've made it clear that Dooku is a one handed fencer, and that Kenobi's style is primarily defensive.

And it's already clear from Kenobi vs Dooku vs Anakin vs Kenobi that styles and forms and knowledge of your opponent do come into play.

So on top of what I've said above, I'm sure Windu's more style would be better suited to tackle Sidious in a sword fight than Yoda's or Dooku's (who I still see as Mace's equal).

Originally posted by DARTH POWER

So on top of what I've said above, I'm sure Windu's more style would be better suited to tackle Sidious in a sword fight than Yoda's or Dooku's.

I very much agree.

Windu's probably the naturally strongest of the three, for one.

Originally posted by Q99
I very much agree.

Windu's probably the naturally strongest of the three, for one.


Yep and his style is a lot more aggressive than Dooku's, which is needed against Sidious to not allow him a chance to Force Choke/Smack you all over the place.

Or Sidious threw the fight. I like that one.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Or Sidious threw the fight. I like that one.

Lol I'm sure you do.

But whether he threw the fight or not, Lucas did confirm Mace can compete against him. So I'm just making up reasons why Mace would be able to even though Dooku couldn't. I just don't want to admit Mace may be more powerful than Dooku

Yeah, but compete can be interpreted a number of ways. And I honestly doubt Sidious would just choke Dooku out with a clenched fist in a general scenario. But the good Count has absolutely no chance of winning.

Lucas also said Mace overpowered him.

Black on white hate crime there.

I'm aware. He was. But that doesn't require Sidious to have been fighting at full capacity.

#semantics #myarena #iwin

People need to educate themselves about official capabilities of Emperor Vitiate. Here: http://www.comicvine.com/profile/s_w_legend/blog/

@SIDIOUS 66

FYI

Originally posted by JediMaster97
Without counting the EU the Legends team doesn't exist, except Bane of course.

PT team wins, easily.



And we all know how canon Bane does against Yoda.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
And I honestly doubt Sidious would just choke Dooku out with a clenched fist in a general scenario.


True, especially if the scenario was he walked in with 3 other Council members, and Sidious had to Blitz them first.

Originally posted by Lord Stark


And we all know how canon Bane does against Yoda.

You mean illusion ghost Bane? Yoda did nothing more that say he wasn't afraid of him and walk past.

Originally posted by Nephthys
You mean illusion ghost Bane? Yoda did nothing more that say he wasn't afraid of him and walk past.

That's the joke chuckles.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
You going out of your way to try to dismiss it on account of Vitiate, or hardly any EU character for that matter, being unable to replicate such speed, is no different than LeGenD's way of debating (which says a lot because I actually thought highly of you as a debater). You're mad at the fact that even limiting Sidious feats to just his movie and TCW cartoon feats is still not enough to water him down; even without his EU feats, he's still the most dominant sith in terms of combat lol.


You don't get to judge other debaters, you aren't a gifted debater either.

I debate with logic and official information at hand, I don't assume as much as you do.

Vitiate is featless without a nexus. He'd die against a 5 year old Sidious let alone him as a Sith lord.

Vitiate defeated an entire Jedi Strike Team. and Guess what? that was not on a nexus

Originally posted by carthage
Vitiate is featless without a nexus. He'd die against a 5 year old Sidious let alone him as a Sith lord.
I hate over the top Vitiate wanking as well...

But you citing Vitiate as a weakling who would get beaten by a 5 year old is just ****ing retarded!

Originally posted by Emperordmb
I hate over the top Vitiate wanking as well...

But you citing Vitiate as a weakling who would get beaten by a 5 year old is just ****ing retarded!

Thank you

Vitiate as a baby will frighten a five year old Sidious