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Fight takes place on Corrusants lower levels

Who wins who dies?

I'm going with Kas'im on this one. When wielding Jar'kai, he approaches Grievous's max speed, and unlike Grievous, he aint ****in around here.

His force defenses are also impressive enough to deal with her force abilities.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
When wielding Jar'kai, he approaches Grievous's max speed, and unlike Grievous, he aint ****in around here.


Source?

The ROTS Novel confirms that Grievous's max speed when attacking with all arms is 20 strikes per second. In his fight with Ventress however, he is attacking with one arm at a time, which would reduce his number of strikes considerably.

Path of Destruction confirms that Kas'im when fighting with a saberstaff strikes ten strikes per second, and his application of Jar'kai is faster, which would be around 15 strikes per second.

I can vouch that when fighting with a saberstaff he is 10 strikes per second although Jar'kai the only thing I can think of is him appearingto wield 6 blades instead of two. But no solid numbers.

Although when fighting with Jar'kai he did seem to be a lot faster so 15 strikes does sound very reasonable

His 10 strikes per second thing was also on an immensely powerful nexus of dark side energy, though.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
The ROTS Novel confirms that Grievous's max speed when attacking with all arms is 20 strikes per second. In his fight with Ventress however, he is attacking with one arm at a time, which would reduce his number of strikes considerably.

Path of Destruction confirms that Kas'im when fighting with a saberstaff strikes ten strikes per second, and his application of Jar'kai is faster, which would be around 15 strikes per second. Can you provide the quote of Kas'im laying down 10 strikes per second, and the quote displaying the hard number that Jar'Kai increases his attack speed by?

Originally posted by NewGuy01
His 10 strikes per second thing was also on an immensely powerful nexus of dark side energy, though.
Yet Bane's speed is exactly the same on a place far less strong in the dark side? You might be putting too much weight on Nexuses.

Though if we are going to start playing the Nexus card, Ventress did beat Grievous on Dathomir...

Why are you assuming that when the author refers to heartbeat he's referring to a rate of 200 per minute? That's a variable with no basis. He didn't say that "a half dozen strikes per *their* heartbeats. How do you know he's not referring to the general heartbeat of 1 per second?

Ventress with mid difficulty

Originally posted by Tzeentch
Why are you assuming that when the author refers to heartbeat he's referring to a rate of 200 per minute? That's a variable with no basis. He didn't say that "a half dozen strikes per *their* heartbeats. How do you know he's not referring to the general heartbeat of 1 per second?
Bane did achieve the exact same speed feat earlier in the book, so it only makes sense that this one would be consistent, and given his noted improvement it certainly wouldn't be below.

What is your argument for Kas'im matching Grievous in strikes per second?

Originally posted by Tzeentch
What is your argument for Kas'im matching Grievous in strikes per second?
I never said match, I said approach.

That's rather arbitrary. Most Jedi's fighting speed probably "approaches" Greivous'. Can you substantiate that?

Not really.

The weaker nexus of Vjun increased Dooku's fighting capabilities to almost perfectly equal Yoda's, while the AotC novel emphasizes just how large the difference between Yoda and Dooku is.

"Dooku went into a wild flurry then, the likes of which he had not shown against Obi-Wan or Anakin, raining blows at the diminutive Master. But Yoda didn't even seem to move. He didn't step back or to the side, yet his subtle dodges and precision parries kept Dooku's blade slashing and stabbing harmlessly wide."

In another powerful Nexus, the Yavin IV Temples, Kun's amulet blasts contained enough power to blast through stone dams, incinerate sithspawn, and blow gaping holes in leviathans. When outside of these temples, his Force Blasts are somewhat akin to Dooku's lightning.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/4/48954/1773699-new_picture__44_.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/4/48954/2151178-new_picture__16_.jpg

A third and final example, which is from the same situation your argument is from, where Bane in his weakest incarnation collapses the Temple of the Ancients, which is a feat leagues beyond the scale of anything he ever achieved, even in his strongest incarnations.

http://static2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20071120173240/swfanon/images/5/50/TempleAncients.JPG

The effects of a Nexus are not overrated my friend, they're actually vastly underrated.



Yep.

Originally posted by Tzeentch
That's rather arbitrary. Most Jedi's fighting speed probably "approaches" Greivous'. Can you substantiate that?
Most Jedis' fighting speed do not approach Grievous's max speed. Kenobi is one of the faster Jedi of his time and he was being overwhelmed by Grievous's max speed of 20 per second.

I have provided evidence for Kas'im being at ten with a saberstaff, a previous speed feat from Bane substantiating that fighting speed claim, and a line of logic that implies somewhere around fifteen with Jar'kai.

How did the Vjun nexus put Dooku on "near perfect footing" with Yoda? Yoda managed to run Dooku off in their duel while focusing on levitating that maid in the air after Dooku tossed her out the window. Yoda couldn't even put his full attention on Dooku during their fight.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Most Jedis' fighting speed do not approach Grievous's max speed. Kenobi is one of the faster Jedi of his time and he was being overwhelmed by Grievous's max speed of 20 per second.

I have provided evidence for Kas'im being at ten with a saberstaff, a previous speed feat from Bane substantiating that fighting speed claim, and a line of logic that implies somewhere around fifteen with Jar'kai. If you're referring to the argument that you provided above, I addressed it, and you didn't respond to my points, instead going on some tangent about Bane.

So, substantiate the 15 strikes per second assertion.

Grievous' max speed is spinning his blades like a retarded pinwheel, so this is all very misleading.

Edit: never mind... didn't notice the previous posts

Reread the fight, dude. The fight only really begins after the maid is in safety, there is only one clash during this period, and Dooku gets a hit on Yoda at that point.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
...what?

Actually, he's right on that. Dooku only hit Yoda when Yoda was distracted. Otherwise, even with the nexus (which in most cases provides a very unmeasurable boost when it does at all) did not make him equal to Yoda. Yoda was winning anyways.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Edit: never mind... didn't notice the previous posts See my edit.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Actually, he's right on that. Dooku only hit Yoda when Yoda was distracted. Otherwise, even with the nexus (which in most cases provides a very unmeasurable boost when it does at all) did not make him equal to Yoda. Yoda was winning anyways.
Yeah I know my bad. I didn't look at the previous posts, so I just saw him talking about Yoda and Dooku and I was very confused.

Count Dooku lashed out with his lightsaber. Yoda took a quick step back and felt the heat of the red blade as it sliced the air centimeters from his tunic. He jumped, spun, and struck at Dooku's back before he landed. Dooku turned aside at the last moment, whipping his blade across the space where Yoda was seconds earlier. Facing each other again, their blades met, clashed, froze.

Yoda dropped and rolled to the side, his lightsaber blazing, reaching for Dooku's ankles. Dooku leapt up and flipped backwards landing lightly to face Yoda squarely. On his feet again, Yoda whirled and struck at Dooku, his green blade meeting Dooku's and pushing him back. Dooku attacked with reckless abandon fueled with hatred. Their blades hummed together, hissing and sparking. Dooku brought his blade down toward the diminutive Jedi Master and Yoda parried, locking his blade against Dooku's.

I don't see much disparity while on Vjun. It was definitely a lot closer than in AotC.

Originally posted by Tzeentch
If you're referring to the argument that you provided above, I addressed it, and you didn't respond to my points, instead going on some tangent about Bane.

So, substantiate the 15 strikes per second assertion.
Your response to my argument was a challenge as to what it meant by a heart beat. Given that Bane shared this speed feat with Kas'im, and that he managed the exact same speed (10 strikes per second) earlier on, my interpretation of a heartbeat in the context of their fight makes more sense, because your interpretation would suggest that Bane is underperforming by quite a bit here.

What is this Bane feat you're referring too? Can you quote it?

The funny part of this all, though, is that you use the nexus feat in debates because the "earlier on" feat you keep mentioning isn't really at all as impressive as you make it out to be either.

Also--Why would Bane's hearbeat be at the maximum for humans? The more fit you are, the slower your heart rate is.

Yep, that's on a Nexus too. lol. It's a weaker Nexus though.

Even if it wasn't, moving faster than the eye can see isn't something Ventress hasn't done.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Yep, that's on a Nexus too. lol.
Yet there is no discrepancy between the two feats despite how vastly stronger in the Dark Side Lehon apparently is? Apparently the increments of a nexus don't mean very much.

I see.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Yet there is no discrepancy between the two feats despite how vastly stronger in the Dark Side Lehon apparently is? Apparently the increments of a nexus don't mean very much.

I wouldn't say that. Bane's performance against an overwhelmingly weak opponent is likely going to be better than against someone stronger than himself.

And we don't see him imploding the Sith Academy when he uses the Force on Korriban. That's a good indicator of the difference.

I'm also not sure why we're even arguing this. Even if Kas'im could strike 10 times per second, Ventress still has speed feats that are just as good, it likely won't even be a factor.

But his speed is more impressive to Bane when he's wielding Jar'kai.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
I wouldn't say that. Bane's performance against an overwhelmingly weak opponent is likely going to be better than against someone stronger than himself.

And we don't see him imploding the Sith Academy when he uses the Force on Korriban. That's a good indicator of the difference.
Right because the competence of his opponent really impacts his speed. If anything he would've had to fight faster to keep up with Kas'im.

He was also totally not trying to implode that academy.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Right because the competence of his opponent really impacts his speed. If anything he would've had to fight faster to keep up with Kas'im.

He was also totally not trying to implode that academy.

1.) That's a good point.

2.) Bane didn't seem to have the intention of bringing down the Temple judging from the text. It seemed his initial attempt was to simply obliterate Kas'im with the Force Wave, and even though he blocked it he was double-whammy'd by the temple collapsing.