Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/04/30/mass-effect-4-in-the-middle-of-development

We're about halfway to the next mass effect.

There is also talk about the first 3 being remasted for next gen. If they did that, I would go through the entire series again. Amazing game series!

It will interesting to see what they do with the story.

And yes, the series is fantastic. My favourite outside of Half-Life.

The characters/story are fantasic, each game plays a bit differently and in my opinion, each game got better and better mechanics wise. Even though people bitched about ME3 ending, that game was absolutely epic. Exactly what I wanted from the last game.

Good that it isn't an extension of the first three games. It'll make it easier for me not to play this new one. I enjoyed the series, but I'm pretty sure I got my fill with the trilogy. I have no desire to jump into an Assassin's Creed-esque ongoing series with multiple protagonists and stories.

Yeah, I would agree.

I feel Mass Effect could go on for a very long time. The world is ripe for exploration and the series could go to the past, or to the future and I wouldn't have a problem with it. It's almost on par with Star Wars.

I'll buy an xbone just for this game. Or another fallout. Or another gears of war. That's about it.

I want to play as a Turian sentinel with ****ing facepaint, finally.

I wouldn't be surprised if this new trilogy allows you change your species.

Or we could have completely new species from 200,000 years before Mass Effect. Similar to what KOTOR did for Star Wars.

Would you guys prefer a sequel or prequel to the original story?

As much as I had some issues with the third game, it wasn't nearly as bad as some claimed, and I'm looking forward to the next game.

I'm hoping this is another trilogy, and that we get race options this time.

Originally posted by Tzeentch
Would you guys prefer a sequel or prequel to the original story?

Sequel. I'd rather play during a period of peace where all of the races are present, than play a prequel where the Geth are in the veil and the Turians hate the Humans.

I want a First Contact War simulation, where I purge the humans from the galaxy, because I'm sick of the HOOMANZ R TEH SPESHUL trope.

Also, the 2IC is a hot asari who can out-biotic anything.

And the ship is a Death Star.

And everyone fires lazrz!

And... and...

I want so ****ing badly to be Krogan.

Originally posted by Tzeentch
Would you guys prefer a sequel or prequel to the original story?

Sequel. A prequel would blow. Either no humans or First-contact War, which would suck. Nothing really happens before ME1 that would make a good game imo.

Originally posted by Tzeentch
Would you guys prefer a sequel or prequel to the original story?

If it were a sequel, I'd want it to be hundreds of years after Shepard's saga.

Also, a sequel is definitely a more risky endeavor for the writers over at Bioware, for a number of reasons.

Otherwise? Prequel.

Work within C-sec as an agent or something on the Citadel, taking down conspiracies and doing undercover crap around the galaxy. Like a Scorsese film in space. Think "The Departed"

Or just give us the chance to wipe out the vorcha and Batarians (for a good reason). They push my buttons something horrible...

Originally posted by COG Veteran
Work within C-sec as an agent or something on the Citadel, taking down conspiracies and doing undercover crap around the galaxy. Like a Scorsese film in space. Think "The Departed"


http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv341/jedibeastie2/4mceko5.gif

I cannot view this evidence on my mobile device.

It has to be hundreds and hundreds of years later. Sheppard needs to be a legend.

Or thousands and thousands of years before. The Reaper cycle happened forever so it can always been something like that.

Prequels are boring. Sequel or bust imo.

Originally posted by Digi
Prequels are boring. Sequel or bust imo. I don't know. The time doesn't really matter. They can make a super advancef civilization on the other side of the universe set 1 billion years in the past and make that work fine.

After all, the reapers were a super advanced computer made by something significantly smarter/more developed than any Mass Effect race. I doubt they were the first or only race around at that time. Somewhere, there is something much older, smarter, and more powerful.

Thats kind of what I want. A completely new galaxy. Leave behind Shepard, and give me some new races. Although, I do want to still play as a human, so I'm not sure how they'd make that work.

I'd be down for a new character who accesses a new form of space flight that lets him/her travel to a separate galaxy and explore somewhere completely new. Give it an unknown, Star Trek exploration kind of feel.

Or keep it in the same galaxy and set it a trillion years into the future. I don't care. Just give me more Mass Effect.

I agree. In most cases, a prequel would be kind of boring.

But as Arachnid has said, Mass Effect is in a unique position where they can have "prequel" but it has nothing to do with Sheppard.

Look at KOTOR, I thought it was dumb that they were releasing a Star Wars RPG thousands of years before the first movie. But for me, I actually enjoyed it much more than any other Star Wars media because it was completely new.

I want to play as an alien.

Is that too much to ask for Bioware? Just let me play as a ****ing alien.

Originally posted by NemeBro
I want to play as an alien.

Is that too much to ask for Bioware? Just let me play as a ****ing alien.

No, you'll forget how great and important humans are.

If they let you play as an Alien, they would have to do very similar to Dragon Age: Origins.

I'm guessing they let you play as a human or a specific alien race.

Originally posted by NemeBro
I want to play as an alien.

Is that too much to ask for Bioware? Just let me play as a ****ing alien.



One of the big draws of ME3 multi was finally being a goddamn alien. Joker doesn't count.

A couple of ideas that might work imo:

- Storyline covering just before and up to the conclusion of the trilogy, but from the perspective of unrelated parties. For example, X is a Spectre sent to investigate a series of disappearances in a salarian STG development lab facility. Plot unfolds, details are fleshed out of this great threat which works on tandem with or is part of the greater Reaper invasion. Ideally, the title allows for even more immersion into the MEverse and expands on the lore. The series or title can conclude with the war effort on behalf of the built up group in a hot zone like Palaven or something.

- An idea I've pitched before and even built a fanfic around: playing as the motley crew of an Alliance privateer in skirmishes with Cerberus and the batarians on the fringes of known space pre ME1. The ship being also built to accommodate scientific research, it would add an element of exploration which I enjoyed from the first title.

- Several generations removed from ME3. The Leviathans become a viable threat and mentally dominate the Rachni in a bid to overwhelm and subjugate the almost mended Council races. During this, the krogan face a schism when their females are captured by the Leviathan forces, the Geth are compromised, rendering them helpless, and the remnants of batarians trying to repopulate step forward with a means to combat the threat.

- Alternatively, having a co-op four player Neverwinter Nights style game in the MEverse, with ridiculous depth and character customization, would literally compel me to spew forth money.

Let's look at it pragmatically: they aren't setting it too far in the past. You wouldn't be able to play a human. Being able to choose your race is a legitimate hope. Not having the option for a human is a farcical suggestion. Look at any literature about sci-fi demographics and tendencies. You need humans. There's a reason something like 80% of Doctor Who episodes take place on Earth. They learned their lesson years ago, and don't deviate from what will please the masses. Anything too alien tends to, excuse the wordplay, alienate the audience.

And since the Shepherd deal happened not too long after humans joined the ME party, we're almost assuredly looking at a sequel.

Safe money is on about 100 years in the future. They can reference stuff you'll recognize from the Shepherd saga, but without being tethered to it narratively.

Given that a legacy save file is made when the game is completed, that's a very safe bet. However, I hope it doesn't rule out non-mainstream content.

No, I've really had enough of Shepard (<-- That's how you spell it, people. Christ.) His story has been told. They need to lay his saga to rest.

A prequel is very accessible. Doing something a couple decades beforehand would be something that could be accomplished effectively. However, doing something afterwards is definitely something that has greater room for flexibility but they have to up the ante.

If they do a sequel, they're going to most likely have trouble finding a threat as massive as the Lovecraftian-esque Reapers. People will ask, "Do they need to up the threat?"

Perhaps they don't but people won't feel like as much is a stake, if they don't or find something similar and that's actually quite important in a narrative.

If he have another Saren, let's say, we're always going to be comparing it to the greatest threat the series has seen: The Reapers. If it isn't as equally threatening somehow or moreso (which I have difficulty seeing), a lot of us will have trouble taking it seriously, I think.

I mean, I'm not saying it HAS to be. It can be something that's not as great of a threat but almost as great. For example, a Warlord massing a great army to try and overtake the galaxy. That's a simplistic description but you get where I'm heading. They could also go where Janus suggested.

The bottom line is that the scale of a threat in a narrative, especially science fiction, is important. Cameron didn't go from one Xenomorph to Jones the cat getting possessed. The next film had more of them, which made the narrative more harrowing and challenging. It absorbs viewers and this doesn't just apply to horror.

We watched Ripley and her crew for the first absolutely get torn apart by merely one Xenomorph. When we saw that there was practically dozens in two, we shit ourselves.

In terms of finding an appropriate villain(s) that poses as much of a threat or a greater threat than the Reapers, Bioware needs to do this to make us, well, "shit ourselves."

I agree. Bioware was very good explaining and showing different parts of the galaxies. Aside from a few references when you investigate individual planets, everything was pretty much explained. You get to see the Rachni, you find out who created the Reapers, you destroy many of the Reapers and etc. All the secrets were explained, shown and destroyed. What is left?

Using Renegades analogy, Bioware has shown us how the Aliens came to be, their home planet and told us the exact nature of the Space Jockey in three games.

That's why I think the series should go far ahead, or far behind so we can something new and interesting. Maybe a thousand years from now there is a new threat. Who knows.

Or as said before, the series takes all the epiciness out and deals with smaller issues (similar to Dragon Age 2 perhaps?)

I'd love a game set immediately after 3, with the plot being you rebuilding the galaxy and recreating the alliance. The bad guys can be a different faction doing the same but with a hardcore warlord or something.

Originally posted by The Renegade
No, I've really had enough of Shepard (<-- That's how you spell it, people. Christ.) His story has been told. They need to lay his saga to rest.

There's your problem. His. If you had played as fem-Shep, you wouldn't be as tired of her.

Btw, I tend to agree. But fem-Shep was vastly superior.

In the end, it's my favourite series outside of Half-Life and anything would be better than nothing.

It will probably 4 years which should allow them to do some crazy good shit.

Originally posted by Digi
There's your problem. His. If you had played as fem-Shep, you wouldn't be as tired of her.

Btw, I tend to agree. But fem-Shep was vastly superior.

BroShep > FemShep.

Mark Meer is tired of your snide insinuations.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I'd love a game set immediately after 3, with the plot being you rebuilding the galaxy and recreating the alliance. The bad guys can be a different faction doing the same but with a hardcore warlord or something.

I actually like this. While it might seem odd to not immediately ramp up into a big super threat to outshine the Reapers, attempting to one-up the old enemy starts becoming like a comic book arc, with X being global scale, Y being galaxy, Z being cosmic, OMEGA being transdimensional, and so on, forever. The greatness of the threat might also fall on numb minds because we witnessed incredible atrocity in ME3.

What would work best, IMO, would be a more personal journey, with individuals we can like and connect with, villains we can understand, who may straddle both lines, or be unredeemable bastards, and an objective of like Neph said, rebuilding civilization, or protecting the remnants from Asshat #10000.

Maybe it could be Cerberus 2.0 trying to use Shepard as the rallying cry for a human-centric galactic government.

Have the new protagonist be Garrus. Triple mother****ing A right there.

Originally posted by Digi
There's your problem. His. If you had played as fem-Shep, you wouldn't be as tired of her.

Btw, I tend to agree. But fem-Shep was vastly superior.

Why are you assuming I didn't? I played the whole series as fem-Shep AND male Shepard so don't sit here and tell me what I would or wouldn't be tired of. I say "him" because Shepard is canonically male.

I found fem-Shep to be more entertaining but, sexes aside, the story is over.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
BroShep > FemShep.

Mark Meer is tired of your snide insinuations.

No, there is remarkable power in Shepussy.

In all fairness, having a villain being present or attempting to interfere with civilization trying to get back onto it's feet is a fine idea.

A villain exploiting the galaxy while it's trying to rebuild and taking advantage of it's weakened state (Godwin's Law invoked in 3... 2....) is compelling.

This idea could work immediately after the third but I prefer distance. The point was mentioned before with KOTOR how everyone was against having it so far away and detached from the previous timeline but it worked out excellently. I think this could also be effective for the ME series.

Only at that point could you really have an equal or greater threat to the Reapers, whatever it may be, and have it make sense or not come off as "forced." If the next ME installment came out as a sequel and relatively close to the time in which Shepard's legacy ended, I could only see it working smoothly if it were a more "personal" or "smaller" adventure.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Maybe it could be Cerberus 2.0 trying to use Shepard as the rallying cry for a human-centric galactic government.

Have the new protagonist be Garrus. Triple mother****ing A right there.

The Adventures of BatmanArchangel on Omega.

Originally posted by The Renegade
Why are you assuming I didn't? I played the whole series as fem-Shep AND male Shepard so don't sit here and tell me what I would or wouldn't be tired of. I say "him" because Shepard is canonically male.

I found fem-Shep to be more entertaining but, sexes aside, the story is over.



No, there is remarkable power in Shepussy.

BroShep >>>>> FemShep. Admit it.

Broshep is supreme.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I'd love a game set immediately after 3, with the plot being you rebuilding the galaxy and recreating the alliance. The bad guys can be a different faction doing the same but with a hardcore warlord or something.

The problem with this is then Bioware would need to choose an ending which would piss a ton of people off. Although, now that I think about it, fighting God-Shepard, master of the Universe could be kinda cool.

No, Shepussy is the Queen of the Galaxy.

Originally posted by The Renegade
No, Shepussy is the Queen of the Galaxy. http://img0.joyreactor.cc/pics/post/Mass-Effect-%D1%84%D1%8D%D0%BD%D0%B4%D0%BE%D0%BC%D1%8B-Shepard-suck-it-haters-703485.gif

http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/29184433/images/1388472101298.gif

Shepard being a shit dancer will never not be funny.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-asNgfTlvxqM/UOIxh8mQJeI/AAAAAAAAA4w/m5iEtz4xAyo/w426-h320/photo.jpg

Originally posted by The Renegade
No, Shepussy is the Queen of the Galaxy.

http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/28643895/images/1386135226555.jpg

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
BroShep > FemShep.

Originally posted by Zack Fair
Broshep is supreme. Suck it haters

Misogynists.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose

BroShep >>>>> FemShep. Admit it.

Hale's delivery is garbage.

Wrong. Get off of Janus' sack.

Originally posted by Tzeentch
Would you guys prefer a sequel or prequel to the original story?

Definitely a sequel. More opportunities for the choices to really feel important with a sequel. Would prefer it to be hundreds/thousands of years after the Shepard saga, though.

I really can't wait for more information on this. There are so many possibilities as to what they could do. My bet is that it may have something to do with the Yahg. They seem like such an interesting species with so much potential. I could see the idea of the Yahg becoming a big galactic threat being so cool if done right.

I also hope this next game is the start of another trilogy and not just stand alone. That's part of what made Mass Effect so amazing and unique is that it was envisioned from the start as a coherent trilogy with choices/consequences that could carry over and be immediate and intense in a way that having a more disjointed story like Dragon Age or the SWKOTOR games wouldn't allow.

I remember seeing an interview where Bioware has said that it will be a new trilogy and not have Sheppard in it.

It won't. I know that much. They've already outlined that it won't be a part of Shepard's saga, nor should it be. His story has been exhausted. They need to move on and it's a rich enough universe/lore that they can comfortably.

Yeah, definitely won't have Shepard in it. Sounds like it probably won't have any of the squadmates from Shepard's saga in any large roles, either. I haven't heard any confirmation on it being the start of a new trilogy yet, though. Probably a safe bet, would be stupid for them to not to do that.

If it's hundreds of years later, I'd maybe call a Grunt cameo or something. I hope it's not shortly after, honestly. Not my preference. However, as long as it is executed properly, whether it be prequel or sequel, I'll be apathetic as to where it starts.

Agreed. I imagine a Grunt/Liara cameo would be possible.

Originally posted by Smasandian
I agree. In most cases, a prequel would be kind of boring.

But as Arachnid has said, Mass Effect is in a unique position where they can have "prequel" but it has nothing to do with Sheppard.

Look at KOTOR, I thought it was dumb that they were releasing a Star Wars RPG thousands of years before the first movie. But for me, I actually enjoyed it much more than any other Star Wars media because it was completely new.

I also was initially turned off at the thousand of years before the movies quote but like with everyone it turned out to be one of the best Star Wars games ever.

But Mass Effect isn't even close in the depth or richness of Star Wars even with all of it's warts.

I wouldn't mind a side story to Mass Effect 3 actually. A lot of potential in that storyline. You could have a team of Earthlings surviving the months it took for Shepard to come back or whatnot.

Don't know how they can remake a threat on the level of the Reapers.

I think it would be a mistake to try and create another Reaper level threat. In fact, I'd like it if they did something a bit smaller in scale. Something maybe more political.

A new race coming into contact that is hostile and powerful, but not on the level of the Reapers. Or the Yahg trying to wrest control of the galaxy from the Council races. Something like that.

http://www.ign.com/videos/2014/06/09/mass-effect-4-rewind-theater-e3-2014

Really underwhelmed, tbh.

How can you be underwhelmed?....they didn't show anything. It was telling us that Mass Effect 4 is in development and it will be something new....

And show the tech (which looks absolutely gorgeous).....so what were you expecting?

Something that didn't underwhelm him?

But nothing was shown. It's a video telling people what route they are taking and how it will look.

Im guessing he was expecting...something. Anything.

Originally posted by Smasandian
How can you be underwhelmed?....they didn't show anything. It was telling us that Mass Effect 4 is in development and it will be something new....

And show the tech (which looks absolutely gorgeous).....so what were you expecting?

I just was hoping for an actual announcement as to what they were doing with ME4. Something about the game itself, not just a tech demo.

And for Casey Hudson not to be so in charge, after ME3.

Just personally.

I guess they shouldn't of said anything.

It's well known that it will be a few more years before we see a new Mass Effect.

But I will say that the video talked about a new IP, which is pretty exciting.

Originally posted by Smasandian
I guess they shouldn't of said anything.

It's well known that it will be a few more years before we see a new Mass Effect.

But I will say that the video talked about a new IP, which is pretty exciting.

I was just hoping for something more definitive. I mean, Mass Effect 3 came out in early 2012. I don't mind taking 3-4 years to develop a new game, but I would have at least liked to hear something specific.

While I think every announcement should come with it's steamers and confetti as well (not really), it's at least good to hear they're working on it.

Maybe that's what it was; I already knew it was most likely being worked on, so i'd been hoping for some actual details at the show.

Imo if you don't have anything worthwhile to say or show about the project itself, after the initial announcement of you working on it you shouldn't talk about it until you do.

Originally posted by Lek Kuen
Imo if you don't have anything worthwhile to say or show about the project itself, after the initial announcement of you working on it you shouldn't talk about it until you do.

Weren't they showing off level and planet designs, the protagonist's default armor plus the galaxy map?

Originally posted by Nemesis X
Weren't they showing off level designs, the protagonist's default armor and the galaxy map?

From what I saw the level stuff was basically just a tech demo of how the graphics and stuff look. A shot of armor is worthless and a galaxy map could have been shown later when they were giving more info on the places to go and alien races

That's what I took from it.

They can't possibly do a sequel to the ME trilogy. I'm guessing they'll do a prequel covering humanity's discovery of the mass relays. Humanity's first contact with alien, celestial life would be cool. Kinda like reentering the universe with fresh eyes

Originally posted by Firefly218
They can't possibly do a sequel to the ME trilogy. I'm guessing they'll do a prequel covering humanity's discovery of the mass relays. Humanity's first contact with alien, celestial life would be cool. Kinda like reentering the universe with fresh eyes That would be kind of cool, but coming into contact with new races kind of loses that 'exploration of the unknown; feel when we've already met those races before. I would prefer this to take place in a new galaxy with new races. Make it set after the trilogy and newer, more powerful relays that allow travel to places never reached before. That would be damn amazing

A prequel would suck.

I like prequels. I think Mass Effect universe is ripe for a prequel. There is so many references to ancient civilizations in the Codex entries that a sequel would be killer.

I would love to play as a difference race stepping on Earth for the first time or visit other planets in our solar system.

So Casey Hudson left bioware today

Oh well.

Just thought it was worth mentioning. And wondering what effect it will have on bioware going forward

Probably not a lot. It's a very large company with multiple branches so I can't see one person changing that.

I could be a bad thing or a good thing. Who knows.

Well he was directly in charge of the first trilogy. So I think with no involvement at all bioware might want different things for them

I guess. I don't know, I never worked there so I don't know how much final say he had.

I'm guessing a fair bit but it's not like he didn't have help.

Here's hope that we get real upgradable paths not just one with very minor differences.

Lets hope for 4 colors of end credit explosion options instead of the 3!

Originally posted by Lek Kuen
Just thought it was worth mentioning. And wondering what effect it will have on bioware going forward

The head writer from 3... I can't remember his name. He's still employed. But yeah, Hudson is gone, finally.

Hudson was a great ideas man, but I think the issues with the writing in the 3rd game can be very much attributed to him, especially with the ending.

Originally posted by Lek Kuen
So Casey Hudson left bioware today

May he rot in hell.

What do you guys have against Hudson?

Anyways, gotta say this is very disappointing news. He was the director on Bioware's best games.

He was largely responsible for issues with 3's ending. I don't hate him though because he was also in charge of the great games

Sure. But he was also largely responsible for all the good in the ME trilogy along with KotOR.

Anyway, he was pretty much the last remnant of the "old" Bioware. With him and the all the others that have left I now have little faith in Bioware.

Originally posted by ares834
Sure. But he was also largely responsible for all the good in the ME trilogy along with KotOR.

Anyway, he was pretty much the last remnant of the "old" Bioware. With him and the all the others that have left I now have little faith in Bioware.

I'm thankful for what he did well, and maybe you can argue that he did more good than bad, but that doesn't mean he gets a pass, imo.

Bioware is putting out DA3 this year, and SWTOR is still going strong. They're not exactly circling the drain by any means.

He did far more good than bad. It's not even comparable.

But doing a lot of good doesn't automatically mean the bad doesn't count. Like leaving a glaring plot hole that would have been a really cool story out in ME3.

Tali investigating the dying sun on Haestrom was going to turn into Shepard and the Reapers both trying to stop a huge dark matter anomaly that would wipe out everything. And you had to decide whether to help the Reapers or do it on your own.

Where did I say the bad doesn't count?

Originally posted by ares834
What do you guys have against Hudson?

He's a liar.

Disappointing news. Hudson was involved in the develpoment of some really ****in great stories.

Originally posted by KingD19
But doing a lot of good doesn't automatically mean the bad doesn't count.

At that, doing bad doesn't automatically mean a lot of good doesn't count.

I never said the good stuff he did didn't count. I said the good doesn't mean the bad doesn't.

I never said that you said that, though.

I never said you said I said that either.

Originally posted by KingD19
I never said you said I said that either.

Right, then why state that you never said it? For shits and giggles?

Originally posted by RaventheOnly
Lets hope for 4 colors of end credit explosion options instead of the 3!

Originally posted by KingD19
But doing a lot of good doesn't automatically mean the bad doesn't count. Like leaving a glaring plot hole that would have been a really cool story out in ME3.

Tali investigating the dying sun on Haestrom was going to turn into Shepard and the Reapers both trying to stop a huge dark matter anomaly that would wipe out everything. And you had to decide whether to help the Reapers or do it on your own. Is this true? That would've been awesome.

Yeah. One of the main writers on ME left the project and the story died with his departure. Look it up. I'd post it but I'm on my phone right now.

All right I'll google it sometime today

Originally posted by ares834
He did far more good than bad. It's not even comparable.

Mass Effect 3 is an entire third of the trilogy; any issues with that game are down to him in the end, aren't they?

Every time I think about it, I get the impression that Hudson is the Lucas of Mass Effect. Great ideas man, but don't let him near the nitty gritty.

Originally posted by Zack Fair
All right I'll google it sometime today

Yeah, his name's Drew Karpyshyn. He was head writer on the first two games, but left after ME2. He freely admits that he only had a general idea of what the plot was going to be, but imo it's far better than the complete ****ing shift we got at the end of ME3 once you stepped through the light.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Mass Effect 3 is an entire third of the trilogy; any issues with that game are down to him in the end, aren't they?

Every time I think about it, I get the impression that Hudson is the Lucas of Mass Effect. Great ideas man, but don't let him near the nitty gritty.



Yeah, his name's Drew Karpyshyn. He was head writer on the first two games, but left after ME2. He freely admits that he only had a general idea of what the plot was going to be, but imo it's far better than the complete ****ing shift we got at the end of ME3 once you stepped through the light.

I really hope ME4 is good. It should be. I just wonder what direction it'll be taken in now.

before he left he laid out a plan to make everyone even more angry now that he's gone

Originally posted by -Pr-
Mass Effect 3 is an entire third of the trilogy; any issues with that game are down to him in the end, aren't they?

Sure. But not only was ME3 a good game (despite the ending), but Hudson served as director on three other great games. So yeah, far more good than bad, even if you think ME3 is bad game.

Originally posted by ares834
Sure. But not only was ME3 a good game (despite the ending), but Hudson served as director on three other great games. So yeah, far more good than bad, even if you think ME3 is bad game.

Okay, I'd forgotten about KOTOR, so my bad on that one.

I don't think ME3 is necessarily a bad game, I just don't think that the bad of that game should be ignored either. I don't think it's out of line to say he done ****ed up in parts when it came to Mass Effect 3, and I honestly am somewhat glad he's gone, because I really wouldn't want him to be involved in the writing of ME4.

Originally posted by Lek Kuen
before he left he laid out a plan to make everyone even more angry now that he's gone

I won't deny that ME3 is like 90% Masterpiece. But the ending is a piece of sh*t, and despite the ending not being all that long, the fact that it had so much impact means it soured the rest of the game for me.

He had to know he was f*cking up, but he went through with it anyway.

I honestly don't agree that it's 90% masterpiece, but it's close, so the difference is negligible.

Yeah. I was basically saying most of the game is amazing. Then the ending is trash. Not sure how to make an exact percentage though, lol.

I think there are aspects to the game that are deeply flawed outside of the ending, but the ending is, I admit, the one big "holy shit" moment in the saga.

That's true on both accounts. There's a lot of stuff littered throughout the game that makes it less than it could be, but that stuff is mostly forgivable if you can find it in your heart or don't think about it too much. The ending though.

Yeah. If the ending had been satisfying, I would have been able to look past the issues I had with the rest of it... But nope.

Originally posted by KingD19
I won't deny that ME3 is like 90% Masterpiece. But the ending is a piece of sh*t, and despite the ending not being all that long, the fact that it had so much impact means it soured the rest of the game for me.

He had to know he was f*cking up, but he went through with it anyway.

He obviously knew. Seeing as it was him he stated that it wasn't going to be like that. He had to know it wasn't what he was promising and since he had final word on the creative decisions and when they were done. He let it go, especially since he was high up in the company to begin with and one of early members back when they were on their own. He can't even blame company oversight since he was given his own Ip in Mass Effect thanks to them trusting his work

Originally posted by KingD19
I won't deny that ME3 is like 90% Masterpiece. But the ending is a piece of sh*t, and despite the ending not being all that long, the fact that it had so much impact means it soured the rest of the game for me.

He had to know he was f*cking up, but he went through with it anyway.

I'd say a complete masterpiece, to be honest.

I recently watched a livestream of ME3 and it was surprisingly mediocre on the whole. Mostly from being rushed, poor design and executive meddling. Its still a good game, but no masterpiece.

I mean, Kai Lang? The dream sequences? The awful sidequest system? Cerberus? War assets? The intro? And all the stupid things they had to put in for new players. It occasionally touches brilliance, but theres still a lot wrong with the game other than the ending.

Originally posted by Lek Kuen
He obviously knew. Seeing as it was him he stated that it wasn't going to be like that. He had to know it wasn't what he was promising and since he had final word on the creative decisions and when they were done. He let it go, especially since he was high up in the company to begin with and one of early members back when they were on their own. He can't even blame company oversight since he was given his own Ip in Mass Effect thanks to them trusting his work

He also flat out lied to people. That's one of my biggest gripes. He promised us things but didn't deliver. And yes, I get that in gaming, you're supposed to hype up your own game, but the issue I have is that the things he promised us, we already got in the first two games. We just didn't in 3. Not like he said we would.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I recently watched a livestream of ME3 and it was surprisingly mediocre on the whole. Mostly from being rushed, poor design and executive meddling. Its still a good game, but no masterpiece.

I mean, Kai Lang? The dream sequences? The awful sidequest system? Cerberus? War assets? The intro? And all the stupid things they had to put in for new players. It occasionally touches brilliance, but theres still a lot wrong with the game other than the ending.

It's definitely a mixed bag. There is the bad like you said, but when it's good, it's very, very good.

There is a whole ****ton of pandering to more casual players, though, and it's especially evident in the dialogue system.

Oh yeah. Theres maybe a hundred dialogue choices in the whole game, it's insane. It was barely an RPG in any area anymore. Limited dialogue, limited sidequests, limited customisation, very linear in terms of where you can go and what you can do.

Cutting out neutral dialogue choices is one of the worst development decisions I've ever seen.

"Every single choice you make matters. But you still die in the end...like regardless of what you do. 100% Completion and you did everything right? Yeah you still die."

People are gonna love this! - Casey Hudson

Originally posted by FinalAnswer
Cutting out neutral dialogue choices is one of the worst development decisions I've ever seen.

Yep, which sucked for me too seeing as I chose neutral options a lot in ME2.

Originally posted by KingD19
"Every single choice you make matters. But you still die in the end...like regardless of what you do. 100% Completion and you did everything right? Yeah you still die."

People are gonna love this! - Casey Hudson

Yeah. So much for "choice".

Originally posted by KingD19
"Every single choice you make matters. But you still die in the end...like regardless of what you do. 100% Completion and you did everything right? Yeah you still die."

People are gonna love this! - Casey Hudson Well, you could save Shepard's life if you met certain requirements, but point taken.

ME2 is still my favorite in the series. It had the best teamates, and I loved the suicide mission storyline. It was sad watching some of them die in ME3 though.

The only way you really "save" his life is by doing the Destroy Ending, and you get a short clip of him taking a deep breath in the rubble of the Citadel right before the screen cuts to black. Because I did everything.

I still enjoyed it. A lot actually. I don't get caught up by what designers say. Development isn't set in stone. Sometimes something doesn't work out and needs to be removed.

As long as the game is good, that's all I really care about.

When I was a chef and was planning menus, there is a fair bit of times where I tell somebody I'm doing something. I test it out and it's shit so I do different things. Same thing can happen with games.

I guess the problem is that people say way too many things before the game gets released.

IMO, Bioware should make the ending a dream sequence. That way, ME4 can open with Shepard waking up to a nearly destroyed universe.

The original ending wasn't the greatest. If it was the Extended Ending was the original one, the backlash would be less severe.

But in my opinion, the third game was the most epic game I have played. It was exactly what I wanted in the third. Seeing Reapers destroy Earth at the start made it memorable for me. I would argue that all three endings the series were roughly the same no matter what decisions you made.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Oh yeah. Theres maybe a hundred dialogue choices in the whole game, it's insane. It was barely an RPG in any area anymore. Limited dialogue, limited sidequests, limited customisation, very linear in terms of where you can go and what you can do.

But this has always been a BioWare complaint. Dialogue, okay first time they dropped the ball there but it's somewhat redeemable in the very end when you talk to your squad before the final battle. That gives me chills EVERY time.

This wasn't an issue of appealing to "casuals." They were probably rushed because it's EA but BioWare truly doesn't believe in aspects of other RPGs.

They don't believe in exploration or big worlds. They don't believe in side quests because that will distract you from the one thing BioWare believes they invented: story. To them exploring, or doing other quests is no big deal compared to their "epic narratives!" Which were at times epic but they are definitely losing steam.

As technology progresses and they look to improve their games there should be a correlation with more open, unique and fresh worlds. We've had an inverse effect. ME1 at least attempted exploration then it got scrapped in ME2 and ME3 was an even bigger joke. You can't even go back to some planets...

DAO had a decent world but DA2...****ing horrendous. I'm so glad Skyrim kicked BioWare's ass and humbled them on their "winning" formula. Now they're forced to look at what they're doing and implement some of what made Skyrim good.

I ranted more than I intended but BioWare didn't suddenly just suck at making RPGs with ME3, they've gradually been doing it for awhile.

In fact, ME2 is less of an RPG than ME3 is. You barely have any choices on how to upgrade your character and both ME2 and ME3 follow the same mission structure as well. ME1 and ME2 have missions that take place on planets and you have a choice on what to do first but at certain times, missions appear that will need to be done right away. As well, ME2 last mission is unavoidable if you accidentally trigger the previous mission.

You can't compare Bethesda to Bioware. Both do different things and have been for a very long time. Bioware creates stories and are excellent at universe building. Bethesda create excellent open world sandboxes but have shit storytelling.

Originally posted by Smasandian
You can't compare Bethesda to Bioware. Both do different things and have been for a very long time. Bioware creates stories and are excellent at universe building. Bethesda create excellent open world sandboxes but have shit storytelling.

Of course but Bethesda has been trying to improve with each and every game.

BioWare is staying the course or at some points devolving. They don't have to be completely open like Skyrim or Fallout but at least make a damn effort to try and have an open world.

Like in ME1 they have shown that they can try and juggle between an open ideal RPG game with an epic story. Far from perfect but a solid beginning. But with each installment they take things out instead of trying to add more features. That was a bit cocky of them and in the end it blew up.

ME2 is one of my favorite games to play but that had its issues too. It was erased by how awesome the suicide mission was.

I loved ME2. Fantastic game. Just like I loved ME1 and ME3. All three games were really good.

I don't know why Bioware needs to create open world games? That's not why I play Bioware games.

Supposedly DA3 will have much more open environments but a series like Mass Effect doesn't seem to need open worlds. I always felt the series was more about the alien species you encounter and less about the environment you were in.

Originally posted by Smasandian
I loved ME2. Fantastic game. Just like I loved ME1 and ME3. All three games were really good.

I don't know why Bioware needs to create open world games? That's not why I play Bioware games.

Supposedly DA3 will have much more open environments but a series like Mass Effect doesn't seem to need open worlds. I always felt the series was more about the alien species you encounter and less about the environment you were in.


ME doesn't need open world. Focus is on the narrative and how it's influenced by the choices gamers make.

A game based in space and featuring a multitude of aliens and planets and stuff absolutely needs open worlds. You make a game featuring the entire galaxy, that makes people want to explore. You bring out aliens, people want to know about them and where they come from. I would have loved to visit the Asari or Drell/Hanar homeworld. It had sooooo much potential.

Don't need open worlds. But I do things the places we went should have been more open then they were. Like more places like the citadel that you can walk around and really get a feel of outside of the specific path

Originally posted by Lek Kuen
Don't need open worlds. But I do things the places we went should have been more open then they were. Like more places like the citadel that you can walk around and really get a feel of outside of the specific path
Agree. That would have been great.

The reason Citadel was my favorite place was because it was properly fleshed out with interesting people, places and things you could explore.

I would agree that some places could of have been a bit more open but I always felt that ME wasn't about the environments but how the story was told.

For instance, the Reapers are invaded the known galaxy and destroy the Turian home planet and your off doing sidequests and exploring every nook and cranny (like in Skyrim)....kind of ruins the vibe of the game.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I recently watched a livestream of ME3 and it was surprisingly mediocre on the whole. Mostly from being rushed, poor design and executive meddling. Its still a good game, but no masterpiece.

I mean, Kai Lang? The dream sequences? The awful sidequest system? Cerberus? War assets? The intro? And all the stupid things they had to put in for new players. It occasionally touches brilliance, but theres still a lot wrong with the game other than the ending.

ME3 isn't technically a poorly designed game, though. ME3 is thoroughly a masterpiece and is up there with the other two installments. It effectively carries a balanced and solidly dark storyline through it's paces. The whole "pick your color" joke is funny but has no merit. Any conclusion, or part of a tale for that matter, can be trivialized with such carelessness. I've seen it countless times.

ME3 generates a whole host of contrarian hate and really bad criticism. I'm not on that bandwagon.

*Kai Leng.

Ugh...

Nah it's pretty bad

Mass Effect 3 was an epic ride. Only complaint was the stupid kid in dreams plot and the horrible, horrible ending.

Originally posted by The Renegade
ME3 isn't technically a poorly designed game, though. ME3 is thoroughly a masterpiece and is up there with the other two installments. It effectively carries a balanced and solidly dark storyline through it's paces. The whole "pick your color" joke is funny but has no merit. Any conclusion, or part of a tale for that matter, can be trivialized with such carelessness. I've seen it countless times.

ME3 generates a whole host of contrarian hate and really bad criticism. I'm not on that bandwagon.

*Kai Leng.

Ugh...

Technically it is a poorly designed game. Its quite lazily and sloppily made. Like, if you want to see a quick indication of this skip to 1:41:20 -

RZKL66ftWdo&list=UUWDFAOZHGSy7ItmuQl32AYw

Note that this is after he's already pointed out how they cut corners on the scaling of that environment. Check out 2:17:30 for more on this kind of thing. And then theres all the other poor design decisions we've already mentioned. Like, the dude on the last page was sperging hard about open environments and shit, but he still had a good point about how much smaller and restrictive ME3 is compared to the other two. Even in ME2 you could go to the Citadel, Omega, Tuchanka and Illium in between missions. In ME3 you could go to the Citadel.

Furthermore, its attempts at a dark storyline are frequently undercut by its poor attempts at drama and plain ol' bad writing. The stupid kid in the vent, the dream sequences, a blatant deus ex machina resolution, Thessia, Cerberus being the primary antagonist for much of the game, Tali's face, many of your choices not mattering, Thessia, the Rachni resolution, Thessia etc.

Kai Shitlord doesn't deserve for me to remember how to spell his stupid name.

Originally posted by Zack Fair
Mass Effect 3 was an epic ride. Only complaint was the stupid kid in dreams plot and the horrible, horrible ending.

It would've been more deep if Shepard's dream sequences had him go through a river styx like in MGS3 and meet everyone he/she killed throughout the games. The kid is lame.

You mentioned Thessia 3 times lol.

What was so wrong with it? I only played the game once, so memory is blurry and I don't remember much

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w13/Xellith/KAILENGEMAILB.jpg

It's overwrought, emotionally manipulative and the Kai Leng fight is awful. Nothing worse than a boss who cheats to force you to lose.

Emotionally manipulative?

It tries to play out as some great tragedy even though we've never been there before and don't really care THAT much. It tries to make you feel as though you failed even though the boss cheats with invincibility and makes you lose in a cutscene. It hammers in over and over "we win here and we win the war!" to make you feel bad when you're forced to lose. And other stuff.

Originally posted by Zack Fair
Emotionally manipulative?

It's a straw clutching. A massive one. Like, a criticism he's expressed, legitimately, is a context-specific boss loss. It doesn't get any more ridiculous than that.

Originally posted by Nephthys
It tries to play out as some great tragedy even though we've never been there before and don't really care THAT much. It tries to make you feel as though you failed even though the boss cheats with invincibility and makes you lose in a cutscene. It hammers in over and over "we win here and we win the war!" to make you feel bad when you're forced to lose. And other stuff. I kind of agree, but IMHO it is not that bad.

Originally posted by Nephthys
It tries to play out as some great tragedy even though we've never been there before and don't really care THAT much. It tries to make you feel as though you failed even though the boss cheats with invincibility and makes you lose in a cutscene. It hammers in over and over "we win here and we win the war!" to make you feel bad when you're forced to lose. And other stuff.

Speak for yourself. I cared very much because of how important Thessia was to the Galaxy as a whole - as a symbol. It spoke to how dire the situation was for the Galaxy's crown jewel to fall and created a very hopeless tone.

Originally posted by BackFire
Speak for yourself. I cared very much because of how important Thessia was to the Galaxy as a whole - as a symbol. It spoke to how dire the situation was for the Galaxy's crown jewel to fall and created a very hopeless tone. Yep. I loved the 'against the odds' feel ME3 had. Then again, I've always been a sucker for tragedies. Its why I've always loved Silent Hill so much, and why I've fallen in love with Game of Thrones more recently.