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Fight takes place in the lower levels of Corruscant

Who wins who dies?

Windu uses shatter point to find weakness in malgus for example his mask and strikes there then he uses vaapad mastery to easily win

there is no such thing as an "easy win" when going against someone on Malgus's level

Originally posted by WildBantha88
there is no such thing as an "easy win" when going against someone on Malgus's level

There is if you are Yoda.

if that is true then Yoda should have handed Dooku his ass on a silver plater

Well for one thing, he ****ing did. Secondly, Dooku is Malgus's superior.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Well for one thing, he ****ing did. Secondly, Dooku is Malgus's superior. wrong and wrong. Dooku stood up to Yoda for a good amount of time and came out of the battle unscathed. Second Malgus > Dooku

Originally posted by Nephthys

Mace Windu. Not an easy win though.

Originally posted by Vensai
Mace Windu. Not an easy win though.
Agreed

Mace windu kills him like a random rank and file sith

Don't be ridiculous, Dooku is not a threat to Yoda without circumstantial advantage.

The AotC novel shows us in depth just how casually Yoda was redirecting Dooku's attacks, and how straining it was for Dooku to keep up with Yoda's offense at all. Though only a brief duel commenced, the good Count for all his skill was all but finished.




I'd like to see you back that up.

Because so far, Malgus's greatest feat of skill demonstrated is his victory over Ven Zallow--Who, in compilation of his feats and accolades as a duelist, isn't even as impressive as the likes of Sora Bulq. The same Sora Bulq who Dooku casually tooled. Dooku outclassing legendary duelists of Obi-Wan Kenobi's caliber is far more impressive.

Malgus's greatest feats of speed are appearing as a blur to a non-force sensitive, and producing a shield by spinning his lightsaber. Dooku has appeared to be fighting in multiple places at once to a powerful Jedi Knight and producing multiple afterimages in his battle with Yoda is again, far more impressive.

Malgus's greatest telekinetic feats are blowing away a building's worth of rubble, shattering stone via scream, and choking out featless Jedi. Dooku has lifted dozens of Obelisk stones simultaneously, choked out Jedi that were amongst the best of their time(Obi-Wan and Quinlan), and collapsed cave ceilings. Malgus's raw power is comparable but ultimately he lacks Dooku's precision and control.

Not only that, but Dooku is just far more well versed in Dark Side techniques, and has a greater wealth of knowledge in comparison to Malgus. He has displayed anything from standard Force Lightning, to controlling Krayt Dragons, to creating dopplegangers of himself through the Dark Side in a Vitiate-esque fashion.

You could argue that Malgus would win through sheer strength I suppose, but as I recall Dooku has repeatedly defeated and/or stalemated Anakin in their duels, and his strength feats are no lesser than Malgus's in side-by-side comparison. You could argue that somehow, despite being lesser in every other category, that Malgus's lightning would save the day--Except that Dooku's lightning is potent as well--Enough so that he has killed Kiffar Warriors instantly, melted and charred Clone Armor, and KO'd Anakin and Savage with it.

Dooku is vastly underrated. He's by all means Mace's superior, for starters.

Nah, Malgus would beat Dooku.

Malgus was one of the most skilled Sith Warriors and beat the Jedi Battlemaster in the Empire when he was an apprentice, 45 years before his prime. Also Ven Zallow was pwning multiple Sith Warriors at once, he's above Bulq. Malgus as a duelist though hasn't ever been beaten.

Malgus was keeping up with Leneer, who also appeared in multiple places at once. Afterimages aren't that great, whatever.

Malgus was also tossing around Aryn Leneer with TK. Not to mentioned tossing around the Strike Team (in a cutscene, loser, down boy) which is vastly superior to anything Dooku has done. He also overloaded a squadron of fighters fuel cells with a Force Scream, which suggests a hell of a lot of power. Also, it was two buildings worth of rubble. Lmao @ Quinlan being anything more than a fodder loser though.

Force Maelstrom is superior, and unlike those other techs Dooku knows its actually good in combat.

Lol, no man, Malgus' lightning blows Dooku's out of the water.

Dooku is not vastly underrated. Malgus is.

That is just fantastic.

Now explain to me why I should care. Dooku slapped the shit out of Sora, who has far better feats and accolades than Kao. If it's before his prime, then provide his prime showings instead, just saying "he got better" doesn't mean squat.



Bulq held his own against Mace, and overpowered both Tholme and Quinlan Vos. Not only that, but he's a confirmed master of all 7 forms and one of the best lightsaber instructors in the Order's history and has decades of battle experience on Zallow.

Edging out a win against Zallow is by no means better than completely humiliating Sora Bulq.

Malgus was beaten, how do you think he died?



Key words there are "keeping up". Aryn still gained a significant advantage via speed. Also--Appearing to be in countless places at once by a Force User of AotC Kenobi's caliber is better than appearing in several places at once to a non force sensitive mook.



Uh, no, he blasted the fvck out of her with lightning, then hurled away her burnt-ass corpse. Not quiiiiite the same. XD

Tossing around the strike team? You mean pushing them like, two feet? I fail to see how that is better than "anything Dooku has done".

Quote for that last feat btw? I've been hearing of it recently but I didn't see it in the Book of Sith.



Yeah, the guy who defeated Volfe Karkko prior to being trained in the ways of the Dark Side by Dooku and Sora Bulq, and went on to beat the shit out of several prominent Clone Wars figures like K'Kruhk and Tol Skorr.

Let's not forget how Karkko slaughtered half-a-dozen Jedi Masters in his backstory. Or is it only impressive when Zallow does it?



Is this you admitting Vitiate's only technique besides lightning spam isn't good in combat? I never thought this day would come.



Malgus was underrated for some time, but he's gotten fair recognition after Intrepid made his respect thread.

Conversely, I see lots of people trying to lowball Dooku, when really he's one of the most capable warriors in the mythos.

Malgus is also one of the capable warriors in the mythos. He owned Darach, and Satele in a lightsaber duel, killed Van Zallow, and stall mated Leneer in there first encounter then beat her in there second encounter. He has tanked insane amounts of damage, like getting blasted by satele and still getting up and fighting after and in his fight with leneer he got stabbed in the side as he was trying to dodge so he pretty much had a huge gash in his side and yet his still fought Aryn like nothing happened. Seriously the only way you are going to keep Malgus down is if you kill him, half measures don't work. He has choked out multiple jedi, blasted a crowd with TK, blasted tons of rubble and sent Aryn flying multiple times with force pushes. Hes strong enough to send a person flying through a room, and breaking through a slab of stone with a casual kick, and all though Arynn dodge most of his strikes when she actually did take one head on she noted that it made her arms hurt and tremble. Malgus is leagues above Dooku in strength and durability

Windu wins with mid to high difficulty.

It'd be a tough fight. Malgus fights with alot of hate so he'd be a perfect opponent for Vapaad. Where he holds an advantage over Dooku's form, the same can't be said for Mace.

Mace most likely has more refines bladework than Malgus but the latter definitely makes up for with his toughness and raw strength. Malgus is a ****ing tank who lacks Vader's refined technique but compensates it with much superior agility.

As for Force capabilities, these two are probably close to being equals. Mace isn't your typical Jedi Master. He's more aggressive with his powers when the situation calls for it.

I'm not sure who wins right now. Too close to call.

Vaapad against Malgus is his end. But even then he Malgus won't die outright, and even weaker fighters like Grievous and Bulq gave Mace a fight arguably. Malgus would give Mace hell.

It's not a matter of asshurt, but the logic of what you're trying to pass with here is absurd.



The point I was trying to get across isn't that Bulq is far better than he--I said specifically that in side-by-side comparison of the two's accomplishments, Kao has nothing to make it any less ridiculous to say that defeating him is better than tooling Bulq because it was done before Malgus reached his peak.




And he undoubtedly did improve, his feats demonstrate that. My problem lies with the idea that a feat is supposedly better than it actually is because it was done before a character reached his prime. It's not.



Too bad Bulq has a canon quote regarding his extraordinary experience in battle and Zallow doesn't. :P

The duel between Bulq and Mace was no less lengthy than Obi-Wan vs A'Sharad Hett, I don't see what you mean when you say the confrontation was brief. Also, feat-to-feat Quinlan is more impressive than Zallow himself.



"I don't recall saying Malgus could defeat Dooku superior in alightsaber duel" (skips one line) "I definitely think he'll hold his own or defeat Dooku in a lightsaber duel"

Alright, so the main problem with this in the case of Leneer and Satele, is that their capabilities in lightsaber combat are based almost entirely on their respective showings against Malgus himself--Therefore I'm not really sure how him defeating them awards him any cookies.

On the other hand, Zallow being one of the strongest masters in the Order tasked with the defense of the Jedi Temple, along with his ownage of multiple Sith Warriors speaks for his skill. Kao being the Jedi Order's bladesmaster and out dueling a presumably powerful Sith Lord speaks for his skill. That is why Malgus defeating them is impressive.

Do you understand what I'm saying here?



As Obi-Wan gave ground, Dooku quickened the pace. His every move was economical and elegant; his lightsaber seemed to be everywhere at once.

-Attack of the Clones Junior Novelization



These are displays of him applying Telekinesis in combat, yes, but you realize this is not the same thing as breaking through one's Force Shields, hurling them into the air, strangling them, then throwing them across the room. I find Dooku doing that to Kenobi rather more impressive.

If you're talking about the application of Force Waves and shoves, I could easily redirect you to Dooku doing this to Anakin multiple times during their encounters, and while Aryn has some good Force Feats--Anakin's are better.



That's an impressive scream feat, but then again that's an involuntary power. Still, it demonstrates Malgus's raw power. As I said, though, Malgus's raw power matches and probably even exceeds Dooku's, but his application of TK in combat is much more rudimentary and less effective. Think of it like a comparison of Savage Opress and the good Count.




You don't know who K'Kruhk is? You are really out of touch. Well, in any case, Vos stomped him even harder than Assaj Ventress did, which should count for something. XD



He *did* apply it in combat, he just used it with much more cunning than Vitiate did, switching out with it and making his escape while the manifestation was slayn.



I maintain that Malgus has never once even attempted to use Force Maelstrom in one on one combat to date.



Intrepid isn't at all a moron, he's just stubborn and laid back.

Regardless of that though, his intention while making the respect thread doesn't mean it doesn't award Malgus deserved recognition, because all of his feats are there for the public eye to make their own judgements. I could make a knife for cutting steak and just as easily kill a man with it.



And because the Emperor becomes worse and worse in the eyes of the beholder the more his accomplishments are looked into.

Yep, accolade from Sidious is nice. Dooku has accolades from Yoda though.

Windu

Originally posted by NewGuy01
It's not a matter of asshurt, but the logic of what you're trying to pass with here is absurd.

Nah man, you're being pretty overly aggressive here. I hope that two days was enough for you to calm down.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
The point I was trying to get across isn't that Bulq is far better than he--I said specifically that in side-by-side comparison of the two's accomplishments, Kao has nothing to make it any less ridiculous to say that defeating him is better than tooling Bulq because it was done before Malgus reached his peak.

And I was making the point that yeah it does make it better than that because Malgus dramatically improved after defeating him and then dramatically improved again.

Its not as if Dooku defeated Bulq in lightsaber combat either, he knocked him out with Force Lightning. Similar to how Mace TK pwned Bulq.


Originally posted by NewGuy01
And he undoubtedly did improve, his feats demonstrate that. My problem lies with the idea that a feat is supposedly better than it actually is because it was done before a character reached his prime. It's not.

Yes, it is. Its like if the Hero of Tython defeated Obi-Wan at the start of the game or something. I don't ****ing care about this as a comparison, I'm just using it as a point. So don't be all like 'oh Obi-Wan is better than Kao' stfu, I don't care. Defeating someone so skilled in combat is impressive. But its much, much more impressive if it happened well before the persons prime. Considering we know that the HoT hugely improved during the game, we would have a comparison to be able to say that the HoT is well, well above Obi-Wan at their prime. Just like we can actually say that Malgus defeated Kao well before the height of his ability, making the feat all the more impressive. Because Malgus defeated Kao at the weakest we've seen him.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Too bad Bulq has a canon quote regarding his extraordinary experience in battle and Zallow doesn't. :P

The duel between Bulq and Mace was no less lengthy than Obi-Wan vs A'Sharad Hett, I don't see what you mean when you say the confrontation was brief. Also, feat-to-feat Quinlan is more impressive than Zallow himself.

I thought we had a canon quote regarding his extraordinary ability as an instructor.

Really? I thought it was a single page? If it wasn't a brief duel then it wouldn't be true that Dooku tooled him.

Lol @ Vos being superior to Zallow. Feat to feat huh? I'm guessing you're not talking about that time Quinlan was owned by Cad Bane.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
"I don't recall saying Malgus could defeat Dooku superior in alightsaber duel" (skips one line) "I definitely think he'll hold his own or defeat Dooku in a lightsaber duel"

What? I truly hadn't said that Malgus was Dooku's superior at that point, you merely assumed. I subsequently clarified that I think they're at least equal though.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Alright, so the main problem with this in the case of Leneer and Satele, is that their capabilities in lightsaber combat are based almost entirely on their respective showings against Malgus himself--Therefore I'm not really sure how him defeating them awards him any cookies.

On the other hand, Zallow being one of the strongest masters in the Order tasked with the defense of the Jedi Temple, along with his ownage of multiple Sith Warriors speaks for his skill. Kao being the Jedi Order's bladesmaster and out dueling a presumably powerful Sith Lord speaks for his skill. That is why Malgus defeating them is impressive.

Do you understand what I'm saying here?

Satele also blitzed multiple Sith Warriors before her fight with Malgus. And performed numerous good feats during the fight such as holding off Malgus with one arm. And Leneer also has great speed and strength feats, and was demonstrably more deadly than Zallow, which makes their fight impressive for Malgus too.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
As Obi-Wan gave ground, Dooku quickened the pace. His every move was economical and elegant; his lightsaber seemed to be everywhere at once.

-Attack of the Clones Junior Novelization

Lol, thats not Dooku being in multiple places at once. Thats just hyperbole. I've seen the exact same description used for human speed dudes in books. Its pretty standard actually.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
These are displays of him applying Telekinesis in combat, yes, but you realize this is not the same thing as breaking through one's Force Shields, hurling them into the air, strangling them, then throwing them across the room. I find Dooku doing that to Kenobi rather more impressive.

If you're talking about the application of Force Waves and shoves, I could easily redirect you to Dooku doing this to Anakin multiple times during their encounters, and while Aryn has some good Force Feats--Anakin's are better.

How is that not overpowering someone with telekinesis? Aryn Leneer is Kenobi's superior anyway, so obviously tossing her around is more impressive than tossing Obi-Wan "Battered Housewife" Kenobi.

And I would direct you to Malgus tossing back the Strike Team and choking out 3 of them at once. Which makes tossing around Anakin look like childs play. Also I disagree about Anakin being superior to Leneer. Anakin isn't even more impressive than the Zabrak Jedi who Malgus owned while wounded. And before you point out that Malgus beat him with lightning, Malgus notes that he could pwn the Jedi in numerous different ways with the Force. Malgus also tossed around Satele Shan in their fight btw.

Also, the only time I can recall Dooku really tossing around Anakin was in the Clone Wars movie. The best he's done since is shove him back a few feet and throw some forks at him. Hardly comparable to Malgus blasting Leneer across the hanger.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
That's an impressive scream feat, but then again that's an involuntary power. Still, it demonstrates Malgus's raw power. As I said, though, Malgus's raw power matches and probably even exceeds Dooku's, but his application of TK in combat is much more rudimentary and less effective. Think of it like a comparison of Savage Opress and the good Count.



How wrong can you be? Malgus choking out 3 members of the Strike Team while fighting the last one is a far better application of TK skill than anything Dooku is capable of. Furthermore his combining 3 Force attacks at once is also a superior showing. The concept of a Force Maelstrom is to pelt the opponent with TK while blasting them with lightning and protecting yourself with a Force bubble. A truly masterful display.

Malgus is more powerful and more skilled in using the Force in combat than Dooku is. Theres a reason Sidious said that Malgus' combat displays were unequalled.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
You don't know who K'Kruhk is? You are really out of touch. Well, in any case, Vos stomped him even harder than Assaj Ventress did, which should count for something. XD

A loser is a loser. If this guy was notable I'm sure I would have heard about him.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
He *did* apply it in combat, he just used it with much more cunning than Vitiate did, switching out with it and making his escape while the manifestation was slayn.

You'll have to remind me of this. I thought Dooku created a doppelganger months in advance of when he shows up.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
I maintain that Malgus has never once even attempted to use Force Maelstrom in one on one combat to date.

Its a combat technique, why would he not be able to use it in frickin' combat? Theres even a picture of Malgus using it to pwn a Jedi with it in the book, with a caption under it saying "Malgus harnessed the Force Maelstrom to annihilate the unready."

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Intrepid isn't at all a moron, he's just stubborn and laid back.

Regardless of that though, his intention while making the respect thread doesn't mean it doesn't award Malgus deserved recognition, because all of his feats are there for the public eye to make their own judgements. I could make a knife for cutting steak and just as easily kill a man with it.

Nah, he's kind of dim IMHO.

Tbh I think Legend did more good for Malgus. Before Legend started arguing for him we'd all kind of dismissed the guy but he brought up all the solid feats I'm using today and convinced me of his power even though I refused to admit it at the time.

http://bookriotcom.c.presscdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/CaryGrantYouMad.gif

In any case, Windu wins. My support for this is NewGuy's argument, which over the years (2013-2014) I have began to accept and agree with. #swfmemories

That Dooku > Windu?

Dooku>Mace>Malgus. u mAd br0?

Not really. I'm amused. I'm not mad though.

I see we have mutual feeling then.

Nah but Malgus is quite a ways above Dooku.

lol



But you can't quantify his improvement up until his fights with Satele or Zallow, which means you are attempting to make an argument based entirely on assumption. It doesn't work.



He was still tooling him throughout the duel, and he was doing it while holding off Tholme on the side. It's more impressive than Malgus defeating Kao no matter how you look at it!




I cannot believe you were just calling me overaggressive.



They're from the same set of passages.



Mace vs Bulq was 4 and a half pages. Dooku vs Bulq was like, one and a half.



Quinlan was owned by Cad Bane "before his prime".




This only furthers my point. How is it impressive for Malgus to defeat someone who could block his attack?



It's really strange seeing you calling hyperbole on someone else. XD



Smacking someone with TK is not the same as suspending them in the air and throttling them dude.



You still have yet to convince anyone of that feat's canonicity.



Funny.

That last part was interesting though, I had missed that.



Dooku pushed him several yards across a hallway in their S4 fight, though admittedly it was after he had already blasted him with lightning.



I'm still surprised you haven't heard of him. He's appeared several times in the PT, in the NJO series, and he was a part of the Jedi Council in Legacy.

He's fought Grievous, Ventress, Quinlan, and more during other eras, though admittedly he got his ass kicked in every single one of those fights. XD

He did pull a ****ing huge ship out of the sky though. #Tulakhordness



It was a quote from the official fact files. Anakin corners Dooku on some planet and he switches himself out with a dark side doppleganger and escapes while Anakin fights and kills it.





Intrepid had a respect thread for Malgus on SuperSWF before I joined here, it's what initially made me facinated with the character for a while.

I'm kind of surprised that he was actually capable of respecting someone not showcased in combat against the movie era characters.

The angry bald guy loses.

im giving this battle to Malgus. Physically he is one of the strongest characters in the mythos. In terms of lightsaber skill he can throw down with peeps like Ven Zallow and Aryn Leneer. As a force wielder he has a lot of raw power, his lightning is impressive, his TK is powerful, he has scream and maelstrom under his belt plus saber throws. He is just a freaking tank that wont stop wrecking until he is dead on the ground. And I don't think Mace would be the one to put him there

Originally posted by Nephthys
Nah but Malgus is quite a ways above Dooku.

http://i935.photobucket.com/albums/ad193/mcnooj82/DeakSalute.gif

Neph, if Vos were a ToR character, you'd be suggesting that he's on Dooku's level just like you do every character who's said to be "very powerful" or who has "killed bunch of sith."

Have you not been following NewGuy's arguments?

Yeah, Neph. Are you a Democrat or Republican? I mean uh, a PT guy or a Legends guy? There is no straddling party lines.

Vos sucks. How could he be Dooku level when Dooku described his dueling ability as 'appalling?'

Mace in a good fight.

Originally posted by PTforthewin
Mace windu kills him like a random rank and file sith

http://www.gophoto.it/view.php?i=http%3A%2F%2Favvesione.files.wordpress.com%2F2013%2F02%2Fkotoura_san-05-haruka-laughing-happy-rolling-excited-energy-cute.jpg#.U2ve0a1_t7d

Originally posted by Nephthys
Vos sucks. How could he be Dooku level when Dooku described his dueling ability as 'appalling?'


Dooku wouldn't have been able to make such a statement had Vos been a ToR character.


*Vos defeated a guy who has killed bunch of masters.*

Neph: "Vos sucks"

*Random ToR character is skilled and has killed a bunch of sith.*

Neph: "he should be Dooku or Maul level."

*Random ToR character can teleport (watch out mother Talzin), and has shielded her ship from being destroyed.*

Neph: "she's ROTS Sidious' superior in combat."

*Random ToR bounty hunter tanks a TK attack from Malgus*

Neph: "he can shrug off a force choke from Sidious"

Neph: *seemingly implies that LeGenD is smarter than Intrepid.* (lmfao)

It's not PT bias that plagues this forum.

U so mad.

Very!

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Dooku wouldn't have been able to make such a statement had Vos been a ToR character.

True, I suppose.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
*Vos defeated a guy who has killed bunch of masters.*

Neph: "Vos sucks"

I believe my actual response was that I had no idea who any of the people Newguy mentioned were.

Vos was still stomped by Agen Kolar. He's a fairly average Jedi Master.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
*Random ToR character is skilled and has killed a bunch of sith.*

Neph: "he should be Dooku or Maul level."

All the people I put on Dooku or Maul's level have more than that, either in terms of feats, accolades or their position in the era.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
*Random ToR character can teleport (watch out mother Talzin), and has shielded her ship from being destroyed.*

Neph: "she's ROTS Sidious' superior in combat."

Actually Jadus is a man. And I was making a point about canon and what it means to limit movie characters to only certain feats.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
*Random ToR bounty hunter tanks a TK attack from Malgus*

Neph: "he can shrug off a force choke from Sidious"

Lol.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Neph: *seemingly implies that LeGenD is smarter than Intrepid* (lmfao)

Maybe if Intrepid wasn't constantly doing nothing but make idiotic, trollish statements I'd rate his intelligence higher.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Vos was still stomped by Agen Kolar. He's a fairly average Jedi Master.


Lmao, see what I mean?

Also, your ignorance is not NewGuy's fault, so you shouldn't dismiss his arguments because of it.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Very!

http://funatlol.com/uploads/calm_down_and_visualize_the_ocean_-funny_animation_gif_2515948256.gif

It's just Star Wars bro. Calm down.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
http://funatlol.com/uploads/calm_down_and_visualize_the_ocean_-funny_animation_gif_2515948256.gif

It's just Star Wars bro. Calm down.


Oceans remind me of sand that gets everywhere.

Sand.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/14/145389/3452675-4143799265-tumbl.gif

Originally posted by Emperordmb
I'm kind of surprised that he was actually capable of respecting someone not showcased in combat against the movie era characters.

That's because you overestimate his bias. Intrepid has an extremely analytical way of thinking in debates, characters that have achieved nothing get no credit from him despite the fact that many would assume them strong.

Unfortunately, most of the EU is made up of characters like that, so from Intrepid's point of view they are not as impressive as the movie characters, most of whom have solid feats.

EDIT: He loves trolling you Bane worshipers, though.

So is Mace.



Mace can throw down with peeps like Yoda and Darth Sidious.



Cool. Mace would turn both of those things against him. #Vaapad



Malgus's TK is admittedly more powerful than Mace's, but as I said before his application of it is rudimentary compared to Mace. Scream is an involuntary power, and im not sure how effective Maelstrom would be against Mace.



Mace doesn't go down easily either buddy. Have you read Shatterpoint? Dude has broken and shattered bones, huge gaping gashes covering his body, and he still throws down with an amped Depa Bilaba.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
an amped Depa Bilaba.
What?

Depa was exploiting Vaapad by drawing on the collective terror of the citizens of a nearby village that was being attacked by Vulture Droids.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Depa was exploiting Vaapad by drawing on the collective terror of the citizens of a nearby village that was being attacked by Vulture Droids.
Oh OK... I thought you were gonna make some nexus argument, but this one actually makes sense.

Vapaad is so dumb. I really don't get how its supposed to work.

It's the only logical explanation how he wasn't slaughtered by Sidious, so I like it.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Oh OK... I thought you were gonna make some nexus argument, but this one actually makes sense.

Your utter denial amuses me.

But yeah, Neph, Vaapad is a weird concept, though it's pretty simple how it works.

Nexus's are beast why do people hate them

People use them as an excuse to dismiss any feat that occurs on them.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Your utter denial amuses me.

But yeah, Neph, Vaapad is a weird concept, though it's pretty simple how it works.


Bluh. It uses your own darkness, your opponents darkness and apparently everyone in a mile radius' darkness too. And super conductive loops and bluh bluh. This isn't actually explained clearly though. Its so dumb.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
It's the only logical explanation how he wasn't slaughtered by Sidious, so I like it.

Which itself was stupid and only put in because Jackson needed to be a "badass."

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Malgus's TK is admittedly more powerful than Mace's, but as I said before his application of it is rudimentary compared to Mace. Is it? The reason I ask is because Mace' feat from Shatterpoint where he stopped the landslide is very impressive. What do you mean by the last part? TK is TK. Are you implying Mace is more creative in his use?

Vaapad allows a Jedi to walk through the penumbra of the Dark Side, channeling that darkness within themselves into positive energies. What this basically means is that the user can sink themselves into the Dark Side and gain it's perks without the negative drawbacks of both physical and mental corruption.

However, it also allows the user to "accept" the negative energies released by the opponent, and channel their power into a force of positivity as a method of overcoming the darkness they face, thus is the superconducting loop.

In simplest terms, Vaapad allows the user to gain all benefits offered by the Dark Side without suffering any of it's drawbacks. It's second property amplifies the wielder's power with the energies released by their opponent. The more powerful the opposition, the greater this amplification will be.

But this process isn't only affected by an opponent. A Vaapad user can also feed upon the darkness around them (In this case, the terror emanating from the nearby village) and channel that as light energy as well. I would assume an experienced Vaapad user could also channel a Dark Nexus's power with this application as well.

Ultimately, I think that's the best description of Vaapad I can give you.

That is precisely what I am implying.

What makes you say that?

Originally posted by Nephthys



Bluh. It uses your own darkness, your opponents darkness and apparently everyone in a mile radius' darkness too. And super conductive loops and bluh bluh. This isn't actually explained clearly though. Its so dumb.


Which itself was stupid and only put in because Jackson needed to be a "badass."






Originally posted by NewGuy01




In simplest terms, Vaapad allows the user to gain all benefits offered by the Dark Side without suffering any of it's drawbacks.

This is stated in the ROTS novel.


Originally posted by NewGuy01
It's second property amplifies the wielder's power with the energies released by their opponent. The more powerful the opposition, the greater this amplification will be.


But this is never stated.


Originally posted by NewGuy01
But this process isn't only affected by an opponent. A Vaapad user can also feed upon the darkness around them (In this case, the terror emanating from the nearby village) and channel that as light energy as well. I would assume an experienced Vaapad user could also channel a Dark Nexus's power with this application as well.


And this is definitely not stated.



I can understand from the ROTS Novel that Mace draws on Dark emotions, and so he will fight at a higher level when his own dark emotions and that of his opponent are high. So I can understand his fight against Sidious was probably a peak performance for Mace, due to the fact that no one has more rage than Sidious to draw from, and Mace himself was pretty damn pissed at the thought of the Republic being controlled by the Sith.

But having said that, I think Mace's "Peak" performance is just that good. Because I honestly see no evidence to believe that "However powerful his opponent is, Mace will become exactly that powerful."

But if what you say is the case, then Neph is right, that it's been explained very poorly.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
But you can't quantify his improvement up until his fights with Satele or Zallow, which means you are attempting to make an argument based entirely on assumption. It doesn't work.

If my assumption is a clearly reasonable one then I don't see the problem. There's 30 years between the Korriban fight and the Sack of Coruscant. Can you really argue that he wouldn't have improved a great deal? From 30 years of non-stop fighting Jedi. As I said, we've seen how much improvement comes from fighting in wars.

Also, as I recall Satele states that Malgus has greatly improved in her journal. While calling him the most dangerous manifestation of the dark side shes ever seen.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
He was still tooling him throughout the duel, and he was doing it while holding off Tholme on the side. It's more impressive than Malgus defeating Kao no matter how you look at it!

The duel was 3 panels long dude, one of which was just a picture of Dooku's smug face:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/104108/3657025-bulq+vs+dooku.jpg

And as you can see he isn't holding off Tholme, he blasts him away with TK in the first panel. So no, he isn't tooling him throughout the fight, theres only one image where they're actually crossing blades, lol.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
I cannot believe you were just calling me overaggressive.

I'm just making sure bro. People usually jump on me for things like that.

Also, so you agree with the rest of my point?

Originally posted by NewGuy01
They're from the same set of passages.

Can you post this quote that describes Bulq's awesomeness?

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Mace vs Bulq was 4 and a half pages. Dooku vs Bulq was like, one and a half.

Its closer to 2 actually. Theres one page with them talking while touching blades, then one with them fighting, half a page with them saberlocking then a last half a page where Windu beats him.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Quinlan was owned by Cad Bane "before his prime".

Lol.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
This only furthers my point. How is it impressive for Malgus to defeat someone who could block his attack?

Its impressive because it shows that she's a strong, powerful opponent. We know from other feats how strong Malgus is, so her blocking his attack is an impressive feat FOR HER. Its not as if I'm using it as a basis for Malgus' strength, just pointing out that Satele has some chops. He didn't beat her through strength, he beat her through skill, speed and a superior application of TK in battle.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
It's really strange seeing you calling hyperbole on someone else. XD

http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20140324041430/p__/protagonist/images/d/dd/Saitama_OK.jpg

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Smacking someone with TK is not the same as suspending them in the air and throttling them dude.

Its still overpowering her. Especially since he actually did overpower her hold on her lightsaber throw. At the end of the day, Malgus is still Leneer's clear superior in telekinesis, and she's really powerful in that regard. Way more powerful than Kenobi, so Malgus' feat is superior and he did it before his epiphany.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
You still have yet to convince anyone of that feat's canonicity.

You're the only one here who hasn't bought it mate.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Funny.

That last part was interesting though, I had missed that.

When Anakin can pull down two huge buildings, let me know. Until then, Hope Malgus >>> him and TOR Malgus >>>>>> him.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Dooku pushed him several yards across a hallway in their S4 fight, though admittedly it was after he had already blasted him with lightning.

True.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
I'm still surprised you haven't heard of him. He's appeared several times in the PT, in the NJO series, and he was a part of the Jedi Council in Legacy.

He's fought Grievous, Ventress, Quinlan, and more during other eras, though admittedly he got his ass kicked in every single one of those fights. XD

He did pull a ****ing huge ship out of the sky though. #Tulakhordness

I've not read Legacy or NJO. Looking at his Wookiee page, I have seen him before but I still don't know much about him.

Yeah, I've checked out his capablities and all I've seen is him losing fights to people. Absolutely no mention anywhere about him pulling a huge ship out of the sky.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
It was a quote from the official fact files. Anakin corners Dooku on some planet and he switches himself out with a dark side doppleganger and escapes while Anakin fights and kills it.

The Wookieepedia page suggests otherwise.

Well that's what Depa does in Shatterpoint. Can't ignore broski.




I never, ever said that. I've openly opposed that theory as well. Mace's amp depending on the power of the dark energies released by his opponent doesn't mean his power will become exactly as powerful as his opponent.

Just saying that an amp against Ventress will not be the same as an amp against Palpatine.

I can argue that Zallow fared lots better against Malgus when he fought him than Kao did 30 years beforehand. If Zallow was really that much better than the battlemaster, then the feat wasn't impressive in the first place. /discussion



I recall the second quote, not the first.



But that wasn't the initiation of the duel, it had already been going on beforehand. Also, technically, Malgus didn't defeat Aryn in a saber fight either, so is that feat invalid as well?



Awesomeness? You mean the feat I was referring to regarding Bulq's combat experience?

There's two, but I can't find the second one. Here's the first:

"The saber instructor bore the scars that attest to hundreds of combat kills"

-The Jedi Path

The second quote stated that Sora had decades of combat experience.



Touching blades? Don't be silly, I could just as easily say every time we see A'Sharad and Obi-Wan's sabers connect in the panels that they are simply "touching".



By that logic, until Malgus collapses a dome, Anakin>Malgus.




Silver made a topic about it.

Originally posted by NewGuy01



I never, ever said that. I've openly opposed that theory as well. Mace's amp depending on the power of the dark energies released by his opponent doesn't mean his power will become exactly as powerful as his opponent.

Just saying that an amp against Ventress will not be the same as an amp against Palpatine.




Although since it is about rage and dark emotions that Windu draws from, an amp against say Maul may actually be almost the same as the amp he gets from Sidious.

Then of course the amp he was getting from his own dark emotions were at a high against Sidious, but that was context specific.

Originally posted by Nephthys

Also, as I recall Satele states that Malgus has greatly improved in her journal. While calling him the most dangerous manifestation of the dark side shes ever seen.





I'm reading the book right now and she makes no mention of anything you've said. She said she's "disheartened" to see him but that's the most she says about Malgus.

My bad.

You really screwed up there Neph.

Well technically it's the negative energies induced from rage and dark emotion that a Vaapad user channels.

If it were simply feeding on emotions, that's not something outside the scope of any notable Sith Warrior. It's definitely something more than that.

Initially that is what I believed, but really it seems to be more than just that. I do think the raw power of the opponent affects Mace's empowerment.



I for a long time have refuted this theory, I think making a big deal out of the fact that Mace was disheartened by Anakin's revelation is over analyzing it to put down Windu's feat.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Well technically it's the negative energies induced from rage and dark emotion that a Vaapad user channels.

If it were simply feeding on emotions, that's not something outside the scope of any notable Sith Warrior. It's definitely something more than that.

Initially that is what I believed, but really it seems to be more than just that. I do think the raw power of the opponent affects Mace's empowerment.

Well no it would be different to what any Sith can do simply because Vapaad is a "Channel" for darkness. So through that channel he could successfully draw on the darkness of his opponent.

But I must point out that the words "feeding" or "raw power" are never mentioned. In fact Sidious was still faster than him and still more powerful in the Force. So this is where I agree with Neph. They have done a very poor job of explaining to us the exact mechanics of Vapaad.

NewGuy said

Well not really. Because if he's drawing off all the dark energies available to him then he's simply fighting at his own full potential. That's giving Mace more credit than saying "he was only that powerful because Sidious was" Imho.