Proxima Midnight Vs Supergirl

Stoic

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
Supergirl is fast enough and stronger, she also has ranged attacks, she should win.

Monica is faster than Supergirl, but she was easily chased down by Proxima's spear, and nearly killed. Based on how the spear works Supergirl had better not be hit by it, because it would probably kill her faster than it was killing Monica.. No one really knows just how strong Proxima is, but I wouldn't place her below the Class 100 mark.

Originally posted by Golgo13
Can Proxima withstand the Red energy SG will be spewing?

Who can tell if Proxima could outright tank the Plasma Wretch attack from a Red Lantern, but how would Supergirl take to being skewered by that spear? Like I said, Supergirl would need to get in quick and hit her until she started hearing squishy noises coming from Proxima's face. If not, and she fought in character, she could be killed by that spear attack. Proxima is a murderer, Supergirl isn't.

Golgo13

Originally posted by Stoic
Monica is faster than Supergirl, but she was easily chased down by Proxima's spear, and nearly killed. Based on how the spear works Supergirl had better not be hit by it, because it would probably kill her faster than it was killing Monica.. No one really knows just how strong Proxima is, but I wouldn't place her below the Class 100 mark.

Who can tell if Proxima could outright tank the Plasma Wretch attack from a Red Lantern, but how would Supergirl take to being skewered by that spear? Like I said, Supergirl would need to get in quick and hit her until she started hearing squishy noises coming from Proxima's face. If not, and she fought in character, she could be killed by that spear attack. Proxima is a murderer, Supergirl isn't.

The red energy can be pretty haxxed. Atrocitus tore a hole through time and space. She can also form force fields and I think all the intelligent wielders can form constructs as well.

Stoic

Come on dude, Supergirl just got the ring, she isn't really all that experienced with it yet. Atrocitus is another story, we can't use his feats to allow Supergirl to shine any brighter than she already is in this thread. This fight could go either way, but in order for Supergirl to pull a majority she would have to go in slightly out of character. The Girl Scout cookie shit, would have to be squashed.

Golgo13

Originally posted by Stoic
Come on dude, Supergirl just got the ring, she isn't really all that experienced with it yet. Atrocitus is another story, we can't use his feats to allow Supergirl to shine any brighter than she already is in this thread. This fight could go either way, but in order for Supergirl to pull a majority she would have to go in slightly out of character. The Girl Scout cookie shit, would have to be squashed.

It comes from the same power source and doesn't work like the GL rings, so it's all about hate. You'll have to find some examples of Proxima's durability feats to prove that she can take both the power of SG or the red lantern energy to say she can tank it.

DarkSaint85

SG wins.

Yes, Spectrum was hit by the spear, but as a counterpoint, a Wakandan soldier and Cap out reacted it, so on average, it's a street level weapon in terms of speed.

Stoic

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
SG wins.

Yes, Spectrum was hit by the spear, but as a counterpoint, a Wakandan soldier and Cap out reacted it, so on average, it's a street level weapon in terms of speed.

Or plot got into the way of a sensible outcome. Unless of course you believe that Cap and any other street can move faster than light. I don't have any idea how you came to the median that you did, but it's a pretty poor estimation. Supergirl wins nothing, she has nearly no experience with the red ring, nor is there any proof that she would survive the spear. Saying that it moves at under 60 MPH is pretty dumb tbh.

DarkSaint85

Originally posted by Stoic
Or plot got into the way of a sensible outcome. Unless of course you believe that Cap and any other street can move faster than light. I don't have any idea how you came to the median that you did, but it's a pretty poor estimation. Supergirl wins nothing, she has nearly no experience with the red ring, nor is there any proof that she would survive the spear. Saying that it moves at under 60 MPH is pretty dumb tbh.

You have one showing to prove your viewpoint (hitting Spectrum).

I have two (soldier, Cap).

I have more proof on my side to suggest that in fact, hitting Spectrum was PIS.

There were three main showings of PM:
1. attacking Wakanda;
2. attacking New York; and
3. the final battle.

In 1, she was pierced easily by a normal spear (remember, Wakanda has no more vibranium) thrown by Shuri, and her own spear was intercepted by a soldier.

In 2, she was beating on Cage until he found heart, then, she was unable to put him down (and was getting frustrated). She also wtfpwned Spectrum.

In 3, she took out the Hulk, along with Corvus, and then her spear was once again intercepted by Cap.

On average, so taking the sum of all of her showings, what makes you think she has the durability/speed to contend with SG?

Stoic

Captain America has plot armor, he took a hit from Gambit that was able to put the hurt on Gladiator. Don't tell me that you don't realize how comic writers become idiots when it comes to Batman, and Captain America? Captain America KO'd the Hulk, while the hulk has had full out wars WARS... WARS with Thor, and guys that would one shot kill someone with Captain America's physical stats.

Cage was hurt when he fought her, he was hurt bad, and even said that he had broken ribs from the confrontation. Cage was also able to one shot the Rhino who happened to be a Class 80-85. In other words, Cage has been written up, above what anyone thought that he was in the past. If he can one shot KO a Class 80-85, what does that make him?

Spectrum was trying to outrun the spear. Are you trying to say that she was moving below 60 MPH? Please tell me that this is what you're trying to say to me here. If so, this will be my final post on the issue. You can then move along, telling yourself that Monica can not move faster than Captain America, Captain America without PIS has the ability to KO Class 100s, and tank more damage in either physical or energetic assaults that would put down guys capable of taking full on hits that could destroy planetoids. By all means you do that.

DarkSaint85

Originally posted by Stoic
Captain America has plot armor, he took a hit from Gambit that was able to put the hurt on Gladiator. Don't tell me that you don't realize how comic writers become idiots when it comes to Batman, and Captain America? Captain America KO'd the Hulk, while the hulk has had full out wars WARS... WARS with Thor, and guys that would one shot kill someone with Captain America's physical stats.

Cage was hurt when he fought her, he was hurt bad, and even said that he had broken ribs from the confrontation. Cage was also able to one shot the Rhino who happened to be a Class 80-85. In other words, Cage has been written up, above what anyone thought that he was in the past. If he can one shot KO a Class 80-85, what does that make him?

Spectrum was trying to outrun the spear. Are you trying to say that she was moving below 60 MPH? Please tell me that this is what you're trying to say to me here. If so, this will be my final post on the issue. You can then move along, telling yourself that Monica can not move faster than Captain America, Captain America without PIS has the ability to KO Class 100, and tank more damage in either physical of energetic assaults that would put down guys capable of taking full on hits that destroy could destroy planetoids. By all means you do that.

Cool.

I know exactly what you're trying to say about Cap's plot armour, and agree. Except for the Wakandan soldier. So we have two extremes here, one, a famous named hero stepping up to the plate and taking it to the big bad, and two, a random no name little guy also doing the same.

I am trying to say that Spectrum was going at full speed, and the spear caught her at full speed, and that was merely an outlier PIS feat to showcase how badass PM was. Known as the Worf effect.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheWorfEffect

Stop trying to twist my words, and make out that I am trying to make the Spectrum scene as her going at slow speeds.

As I said before, hitting Spectrum was an outlier feat outside of her norm.

Do you have any further proof to show the speed of this spear? I currently have two. You have one. You call my examples PIS, I can easily say your ONE example is PIS.

Stoic

Right because the spear was meant to move at very slow speeds, and it's not powerful at all. I mean it only placed the weight of an entire star on the Hulk, and yet it was incapable of killing off a human Soldier, and it couldn't tag Captain America. Then again Captain America is about as durable and fast as the Flash if the plot calls for him to be, oh and let's not forget about his Class 100 durability and strength that defies his description. Captain America should have been killed in his confrontation with the Black Order, but once again that plot armor came through in a pinch. It's the same thing that happened with Batman and the Spectre.

So you have a choice. You can believe that her weapon is weak, which I can assure you that it is not, you can believe that she is weak because of the Luke Cage variable, which I can also assure you that she isn't, and we can both wait until Thanos is once again freed, and the Black Order is back in action. Isn't Korvus back alive? If the spear can catch Monica, it certainly will catch Supergirl IMO.

DarkSaint85

Originally posted by Stoic
Right because the spear was meant to move at very slow speeds, and it's not powerful at all. I mean it only placed the weight of an entire star on the Hulk, and yet it was incapable of killing off a human Soldier, and it couldn't tag Captain America. Then again Captain America is about as durable and fast as the Flash if the plot calls for him to be, oh and let's not forget about his Class 100 durability and strength that defies his description. Captain America should have been killed in his confrontation with the Black Order, but once again that plot armor came through in a pinch. It's the same thing that happened with Batman and the Spectre.

So you have a choice. You can believe that her weapon is weak, which I can assure you that it is not, you can believe that she is weak because of the Luke Cage variable, which I can also assure you that she isn't, and we can both wait until Thanos is once again freed, and the Black Order is back in action. Isn't Korvus back alive? If the spear can catch Monica, it certainly will catch Supergirl IMO.

No, no, its weight is not in question here, nor is its power. The human soldier was able to intercept it with his body, shout out, and then died (i.e I never said it was incapable of killing him off). It's its speed that I am calling into question.

With Batman/Spectre, completely different thing. Spectre said that he ALLOWED Batman to do what he did, to make him feel better. If PM said the same thing (I dialled my spear's speed down so Cap can look good) I missed that.

What are you basing your assertions and assurances on? Handbooks? Because I am using actual comic book showingS. Not just one showing, but 66% of her showings.

I am NOT saying the spear is weak, I am saying it is slow.

carver9

Just want to throw out there that her spear 'hit' Cap.

DarkSaint85

True, he still blocked it partially. (two out of three shafts?)

carver9

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
True, he still blocked it partially. (two out of three shafts?)

Look like his shield was up before the attack was launched.

carver9

This is all we see.

https://imageshack.com/i/0553i3j

And before this...Cap already had his shield at his side.

https://imageshack.com/i/5i4v5zj

dial J for Josh

DarkSaint you do realize that in Infinity #6 Cap didn't "react" to Prixima's spear throw correct? It was completely anticipated because you know she kind of gave Cap and Carol a speech about how she was going to kill them and got in position to throw her spear. It was apparent to cap that she would attack so he defended accordingly. Also if proxima's spear is able to catch Monica my theory is that her spear has special properties, so after the initial throw it takes time for the spear to gain velocity and become incredibly fast. Which explains the incident with the wakandan soldier.

abhilegend

And Kara can fight Flash at superspeed.

http://s5d4.turboimagehost.com/t1/18746532_2833096-2013_01_23_06_31_07___supergirl_16_003.jpg http://s5d4.turboimagehost.com/t1/18746533_2833097-2013_01_23_06_31_07___supergirl_16_004.jpg http://s5d4.turboimagehost.com/t1/18746534_2833099-2013_01_23_06_31_07___supergirl_16_005.jpg http://s5d4.turboimagehost.com/t1/18746535_2833100-2013_01_23_06_31_07___supergirl_16_006.jpg http://s5d4.turboimagehost.com/t1/18746536_2833102-2013_01_23_06_31_07___supergirl_16_007.jpg http://s5d4.turboimagehost.com/t1/18746537_2833103-2013_01_23_06_31_07___supergirl_16_008.jpg http://s5d4.turboimagehost.com/t1/18746538_2833106-2013_01_23_06_31_07___supergirl_16_009.jpg http://s5d4.turboimagehost.com/t1/18746539_2833114-2013_01_23_06_31_07___supergirl_16_010.jpg http://s5d4.turboimagehost.com/t1/18746540_2833115-2013_01_23_06_31_07___supergirl_16_011.jpg http://s5d4.turboimagehost.com/t1/18746541_2833117-2013_01_23_06_31_07___supergirl_16_012.jpg

That's about as fast as anyone can be.

abhilegend

And her durability is top notch too. Tanking missiles fueled with core of neutron stars.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120679/3729123-2014-03-26+07-52-11+-+red+lanterns+%282011-%29+029-001.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120679/3729131-2014-03-26+07-52-11+-+red+lanterns+%282011-%29+029-002.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120679/3729133-2014-03-26+07-52-11+-+red+lanterns+%282011-%29+029-003.jpg

dial J for Josh

Originally posted by abhilegend
And Kara can fight Flash at superspeed.

http://s5d4.turboimagehost.com/t1/18746532_2833096-2013_01_23_06_31_07___supergirl_16_003.jpg http://s5d4.turboimagehost.com/t1/18746533_2833097-2013_01_23_06_31_07___supergirl_16_004.jpg http://s5d4.turboimagehost.com/t1/18746534_2833099-2013_01_23_06_31_07___supergirl_16_005.jpg http://s5d4.turboimagehost.com/t1/18746535_2833100-2013_01_23_06_31_07___supergirl_16_006.jpg http://s5d4.turboimagehost.com/t1/18746536_2833102-2013_01_23_06_31_07___supergirl_16_007.jpg http://s5d4.turboimagehost.com/t1/18746537_2833103-2013_01_23_06_31_07___supergirl_16_008.jpg http://s5d4.turboimagehost.com/t1/18746538_2833106-2013_01_23_06_31_07___supergirl_16_009.jpg http://s5d4.turboimagehost.com/t1/18746539_2833114-2013_01_23_06_31_07___supergirl_16_010.jpg http://s5d4.turboimagehost.com/t1/18746540_2833115-2013_01_23_06_31_07___supergirl_16_011.jpg http://s5d4.turboimagehost.com/t1/18746541_2833117-2013_01_23_06_31_07___supergirl_16_012.jpg

That's about as fast as anyone can be.

cis.

abhilegend

Originally posted by dial J for Josh
cis.
Even then, its a beastly speed feat.

DarkSaint85

Originally posted by carver9
Look like his shield was up before the attack was launched.

Wait...so the spear is unable to change direction? What difference does having your shield up make?

Very different to what I saw with Spectrum....it was zipping all around like the Omega Blasts from Darkseid.

DarkSaint85

Originally posted by dial J for Josh
DarkSaint you do realize that in Infinity #6 Cap didn't "react" to Prixima's spear throw correct? It was completely anticipated because you know she kind of gave Cap and Carol a speech about how she was going to kill them and got in position to throw her spear. It was apparent to cap that she would attack so he defended accordingly. Also if proxima's spear is able to catch Monica my theory is that her spear has special properties, so after the initial throw it takes time for the spear to gain velocity and become incredibly fast. Which explains the incident with the wakandan soldier.

So...there is a sweet spot where if you're close enough, the spear is still pretty slow (as in it takes time to accelerate)?

Yeah, SG still wins this.

DarkSaint85

Originally posted by Stoic
It's the same thing that happened with Batman and the Spectre.

You missed the context between Batman and the Spectre, which you really should have looked into rather than just grasped at straws.

Bats only did what he did...because the Spectre allowed it. Are you seriously suggesting Proxima ALLOWED her spear to slow down????

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/103530/2215153-4.png

carver9

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Wait...so the spear is unable to change direction? What difference does having your shield up make?

Very different to what I saw with Spectrum....it was zipping all around like the Omega Blasts from Darkseid.

What are you talking about? They were a couple of ft away. She threw the spear...it hit Cap shield (that was already up) and it did exactly what you said and changed direction. Don't get your point with the Cap scene. You're even wrong about the soldier scene that jumped in the way of the spear throw. He jumped in front of the attack before she launched it.

Stop being so picky my friend. How about this. Supergirl still gets tagged since someone as slow as Lobo was able to hit her with ease and Lobo isn't as near as fast as the spear. She has also been tagged by misses as well. Proxima stomps.

thumb up

God Cloth Seiya

Supergirl

DarkSaint85

Originally posted by carver9
What are you talking about? They were a couple of ft away. She threw the spear...it hit Cap shield (that was already up) and it did exactly what you said and changed direction. Don't get your point with the Cap scene. You're even wrong about the soldier scene that jumped in the way of the spear throw. He jumped in front of the attack before she launched it.

Stop being so picky my friend. How about this. Supergirl still gets tagged since someone as slow as Lobo was able to hit her with ease and Lobo isn't as near as fast as the spear. She has also been tagged by misses as well. Proxima stomps.

thumb up

My point is that she threw the spear, and Cap was able to react to it.

They are shown BEHIND Shuri, who had earlier pierced PM easily with a simple spear toss. How do you get the idea that he jumped in front before she launched it???

http://i39.tinypic.com/14bt7if.jpg

Great job bringing up some of the times SG's been tagged. Shall we tally up and use the averages? I can assure you, based on PM's THREE main appearances, that SG will come out on top.

carver9

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
My point is that she threw the spear, and Cap was able to react to it.

They are shown BEHIND Shuri, who had earlier pierced PM easily with a simple spear toss. How do you get the idea that he jumped in front before she launched it???

Great job bringing up some of the times SG's been tagged. Shall we tally up and use the averages? I can assure you, based on PM's THREE main appearances, that SG will come out on top.

How did he react to it when he got hit? His shield was already up before she threw the attack.

Couldn't remember the scene with the soldier but good post. Looked like she tossed it instead of throwing it though. You honestly don't believe she toss her weapon at the same speeds do you?

DarkSaint85

You honestly don't think her tossing/launching speed has ANYTHING to do with it, do you, when it's changing direction in 3 dimensions and chasing people????

Are you now saying that when she threw a spear at Spectrum, she was effectively throwing it at lightspeed?? And that her strength/speed of launch enabled the spear to zig zag in the air, chasing Spectrum???

carver9

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
You honestly don't think her tossing/launching speed has ANYTHING to do with it, do you, when it's changing direction in 3 dimensions and chasing people????

Are you now saying that when she threw a spear at Spectrum, she was effectively throwing it at lightspeed?? And that her strength/speed of launch enabled the spear to zig zag in the air, chasing Spectrum???

Not what I am saying. I'm just asking a question. The soldier scene is just unclear to me. What I do know is...Cap shield was already up when she launched the attack and then he was hit which means he didn't counter it. Then it changed directions as well (but hit a team mate). Then she used it against Hulk who was stated during that scene as moving at super speed and he was hit as well. Then she used it against Spectrum and it moved at super speed as well.

So your argument isn't concrete.

DarkSaint85

Not that unclear.

She threw it, and a trained human soldier was able to see it, shout out 'Protect the princess' twice, and throw his entire body in front of it.

As for the Cap scans, thanks. You can clearly see Cap's back is to PM, when she throws a sucker shot AT HIS BACK. His front is to Carol, and his shield side is facing Hyperion and Corvus.

So he still managed to react, and spin 90 degrees to block the attack and protect Carol.

dial J for Josh

Originally posted by carver9
How did he react to it when he got hit? His shield was already up before she threw the attack.

Couldn't remember the scene with the soldier but good post. Looked like she tossed it instead of throwing it though. You honestly don't believe she toss her weapon at the same speeds do you?

I said that in my last post about cap not reacting to it which is apparent but darksaint isn't grasping this.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
You honestly don't think her tossing/launching speed has ANYTHING to do with it, do you, when it's changing direction in 3 dimensions and chasing people????

Are you now saying that when she threw a spear at Spectrum, she was effectively throwing it at lightspeed?? And that her strength/speed of launch enabled the spear to zig zag in the air, chasing Spectrum???

Again I'm being ignored. Proxima's spear was a gift bestowed upon her by Thanos himself! Thanos being a individual who has nothing but the highest standards in terms of quality when it comes to weaponry and tech. Knowing this, it is apparent that Proximas spear has special properties. Not by that concept alone but simply due to her on panel showings with her spear. She can toss it at any direction and it will follow whomever she desires it to due to its homing capacity. Depending on how fast the individual is running away from it, the spear will adjust accordingly.

DarkSaint85

Originally posted by dial J for Josh
I said that in my last post about cap not reacting to it which is apparent but darksaint isn't grasping this.

Again I'm being ignored. Proxima's spear was a gift bestowed upon her by Thanos himself! Thanos being a individual who has nothing but the highest standards in terms of quality when it comes to weaponry and tech. Knowing this, it is apparent that Proximas spear has special properties. Not by that concept alone but simply due to her on panel showings with her spear. She can toss it at any direction and it will follow whomever she desires it to due to its homing capacity. Depending on how fast the individual is running away from it, the spear will adjust accordingly.

She threw it at Cap's back. He spins, and deflects two of the shafts on his shield. That's reacting to it.

Lol @ Thanos' standards: see this link.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_small/14/149570/3275083-img_7147.png

Corvus Glaive: As long as his otherworldly blade remains whole, he cannot die. Tell that to Hyperion.

Black Dwarf - beaten by a highly trained human warrior.

Proxima Midnight: Her spear, when thrown, is lethal to most creatures. Who did it kill? A human Wakandan. Hulk took it, Spectrum took it, Cap took some of it, Corvus took some of it. Guess Earth is just that uber.
Proof of this ability of the spear to adjust accordingly???

DarkSaint85

Originally posted by carver9
This is all we see.

https://imageshack.com/i/0553i3j

And before this...Cap already had his shield at his side.

https://imageshack.com/i/5i4v5zj

Here you go, in case you were ignoring carver. He has put them out of order, so click the second link first. You can see PM standing behind Cap, who's bent down helping Carol up.

Sure, you can argue that during her monologue, she was close enough for Cap to hear her, and adjust his stance accordingly, in readiness for the spear. Which then begs the question (which you have ignored): why didn't the spear just go around the shield? We know it can change direction, yet, your assertion is that as PM is monologuing, Cap is turning around and getting ready for the spear, PM CAN SEE HIM TURNING AROUND AND GETTING READY.....and yet, just throws the spear directly at him.

Uhuh.

cdtm

carver9

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Not that unclear.

She threw it, and a trained human soldier was able to see it, shout out 'Protect the princess' twice, and throw his entire body in front of it.

As for the Cap scans, thanks. You can clearly see Cap's back is to PM, when she throws a sucker shot AT HIS BACK. His front is to Carol, and his shield side is facing Hyperion and Corvus.

So he still managed to react, and spin 90 degrees to block the attack and protect Carol.

His back was to her BEFORE she threw the spear. We see Cap picking Cap Marvel up. Then we see Proxima jumping up in the air, talking and throwing her spear. What was Cap doing during all of this? During the time she jumped up in the air...talked, THEN throwing her spear.

https://imageshack.com/i/5i4v5zj

I know how we can find that answer out. In the scan I posted, Captain Marvel is laid out on the ground, barely able to move while Cap is turned around helping her out. In this scan Captain Marvel is on her ft just like Cap. She isn't close to being as weary as she was during the time Cap picked her up. Time passed my friend.

https://imageshack.com/i/0553i3j

How much time...it's unclear but what we do know is A). Cap had his shield in his hands before the attack. B). Proxima jumped up in the air and said complete sentences before throwing the shield (which would give Cap time to turn around and face his opponent). C). A damaged Carol and Captain America was turned around at Proxima direction looking at her. All of this is shown here.

dial J for Josh

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
She threw it at Cap's back. He spins, and deflects two of the shafts on his shield. That's reacting to it.

Lol @ Thanos' standards: see this link.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_small/14/149570/3275083-img_7147.png

Corvus Glaive: As long as his otherworldly blade remains whole, he cannot die. Tell that to Hyperion.

Black Dwarf - beaten by a highly trained human warrior.

Proxima Midnight: Her spear, when thrown, is lethal to most creatures. Who did it kill? A human Wakandan. Hulk took it, Spectrum took it, Cap took some of it, Corvus took some of it. Guess Earth is just that uber.
Proof of this ability of the spear to adjust accordingly???

....Wow dude really "Proxima's powers: Her spear when thrown transforms into 3 tracers of black light THAT NEVER MISSES!" Lol thanks a lot for doing the work for me, you just dug your own grave. Not only that but you made yourself look bad because you intentionally left that part out in your post to make yourself look good in hopes that we wouldn't catch it.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Proxima Midnight: Her spear, when thrown, is lethal to most creatures.

You just lost all debating credibility.

http://www.responsegif.com/images/wendell-pierce-headshake.gif

carver9

Originally posted by cdtm
Weak durabity though, if a common spear could pierce her shoulder.

Granted, it didn't bother her, but it implies she'd be vulnerable to losing limbs, if not an outright decapitation.

Common spear?

DarkSaint85

Originally posted by dial J for Josh
....Wow dude really "Proxima's powers: Her spear when thrown transforms into 3 tracers of black light THAT NEVER MISSES!" Lol thanks a lot for doing the work for me, you just dug your own grave. Not only that but you made yourself look bad because you intentionally left that part out in your post to make yourself look good in hopes that we wouldn't catch it.

You just lost all debating credibility.

http://www.responsegif.com/images/wendell-pierce-headshake.gif

Well, I don't have any proof that it misses. It can be intercepted, or it can be deflected, however. Why would I add that it never misses, when I have no proof of it missing???? Please take a deep breath, calm down, and re-read my comment again.

I did not leave it out to make myself look good. If I did, I would NEVER HAVE PROVIDED THE LINK, would I ? Or I would have cropped it. I realise that I, when quoting, missed a part out. I should have added '...' to it. My bad - I hold my hands up. But was not done to misrepresent - again, had I wished to have done so, I would have omitted the scan altogether.

But good job on ignoring all my other points thumb up

DarkSaint85

Originally posted by carver9
Common spear?

All of Wakanda's vibranium was destroyed during Doomwar. Granted, it could be a super duper adamantium/uru/promethium/adamantine alloy.....

carver9

Originally posted by carver9
His back was to her BEFORE she threw the spear. We see Cap picking Cap Marvel up. Then we see Proxima jumping up in the air, talking and throwing her spear. What was Cap doing during all of this? During the time she jumped up in the air...talked, THEN throwing her spear.

https://imageshack.com/i/5i4v5zj

I know how we can find that answer out. In the scan I posted, Captain Marvel is laid out on the ground, barely able to move while Cap is turned around helping her out. In this scan Captain Marvel is on her ft just like Cap. She isn't close to being as weary as she was during the time Cap picked her up. Time passed my friend.

https://imageshack.com/i/0553i3j

How much time...it's unclear but what we do know is A). Cap had his shield in his hands before the attack. B). Proxima jumped up in the air and said complete sentences before throwing the shield (which would give Cap time to turn around and face his opponent). C). A damaged Carol and Captain America was turned around at Proxima direction looking at her. All of this is shown here.

At Darkseint...your other points are irrelevant.

DarkSaint85

in character, PM is a stupid fighter thumb up

DarkSaint85

Another equally valid conclusion?

Proxima Midnight lacks the 'battle reflexes' neccessary to adjust to new situations. She's throwing her spear at her opponents' back, he spins around and gets ready for her, and she still is unable to react to this new information.

This chimes with her not avoiding the spear. Olympic javelins go at a whopping 113km/hr. Double that (assuming Shuri is twice as strong as an Olympic athlete), and its no wonder she was unable to do anything about it....

carver9

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
So in other words, Proxima, who is facing squarely on her target, can see him turning around and face her with his shield, ready to take her spear, and decides to throw her spear directly at the shield?

thumb up

in character, PM is a stupid fighter thumb up

Naah...you worded it wrong again. Proxima jumps up in the air...say a speech. Cap turns around while lifting Cap off the ground. Proxima throws her spear and it hits the target but the other two bounce off of Cap Shield. The weapon does a reverse but instead of hitting Cap, it hits Corvus (could be numerous of reasons on why that happened). So overall that still goes against your argument since again, Cap and Carol was looking right at her when she threw the shield (as shown by Cap and a damaged Carol facing her direction during that scene) and the spear hit it's target which means it will most Def hit Supergirl.

dial J for Josh

Lol man you continually contradict yourself. I see you just quickly edited your last post because you said "When did I question her spears never missing?" And now its mysteriously edited, hmmmmm. Did you realize that you are contradicting yourself? Because I was going to respond with this.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_small/14/149570/3275083-img_7147.png

Proxima Midnight: Her spear, when thrown, is lethal to most creatures. Proof of this ability of the spear to adjust accordingly???

..so before you quickly edited that last post you asked me "when did I question her spear actually missing" and on the quote above you post the link to proximas powers then contradict yourself by asking " proof of this ability of the spear to adjust accordingly" sad part is that you contradicted yourself in the same post. And that you did intentionally omit her spear never missing. http://images.killermovies.com/forums/customsmilies/facepalm.gif

DarkSaint85

Originally posted by carver9
Naah...you worded it wrong again. Proxima jumps up in the air...say a speech. Cap turns around while lifting Cap off the ground. Proxima throws her spear and it hits the target but the other two bounce off of Cap Shield. The weapon does a reverse but instead of hitting Cap, it hits Corvus (could be numerous of reasons on why that happened). So overall that still goes against your argument since again, Cap and Carol was looking right at her when she threw the shield (as shown by Cap and a damaged Carol facing her direction during that scene) and the spear hit it's target which means it will most Def hit Supergirl.

Yes, but my point is that PM can SEE Steve turning around to face her. And still threw her spear directly at him, rather than have it go around his shield (which it can, indeed, do - change direction in midflight etc). Ergo, she is a poor fighter.

DarkSaint85

Originally posted by dial J for Josh
Lol man you continually contradict yourself. I see you just quickly edited your last post because you said "When did I question her spears never missing?" And now its mysteriously edited, hmmmmm. Did you realize that you are contradicting yourself? Because I was going to respond with this.

This is what I added in my edit:

Lol. Please re-read my comments:

My statement:

Was in direct reply to your statement:
Originally posted by dial J for Josh
Depending on how fast the individual is running away from it, the spear will adjust accordingly.

I was asking you for proof that the spear will change its speed according to its target (i.e. if it was chasing Quicksilver, it would be fast, and when chasing a street-level Back Panther, it would be street-level).

Although at least you seemed to have discarded your initial theory:
Originally posted by dial J for Josh
Also if proxima's spear is able to catch Monica my theory is that her spear has special properties, so after the initial throw it takes time for the spear to gain velocity and become incredibly fast. Which explains the incident with the wakandan soldier.

DarkSaint85

Edit, as dial J seems to think there is some conspiracy: I mean to type 'Black Panther' not 'Back Panther'.

Stupid autocorrect.

dial J for Josh

Lol your asking me to prove that it adjust accordingly? Easy, as what you previously posted it was slow enough for a wakandan soldier to react to it correct? Yet later on she throws her spear and impales spectrum, a being who can travel at light speed as well as phase through objects. So are you still going to tell me that it does not adjust accordingly? Or surely a wakandan soldier is better than Monica since he saw it coming slowly right?

Here you go btw... Yeah doesn't look like its adjusting to Monica's light speed because if it did it would've hit her... Oh wait it did.

http://retconpunchdotcom.files.wordpress.com/2013/10/ma2_spear.jpg

DarkSaint85

Originally posted by dial J for Josh
Lol your asking me to prove that it adjust accordingly? Easy, as what you previously posted it was slow enough for a wakandan soldier to react to it correct? Yet later on she throws her spear and impales spectrum, a being who can travel at light speed as well as phase through objects. So are you still going to tell me that it does not adjust accordingly? Or surely a wakandan soldier is better than Monica since he saw it coming slowly right?

Here you go btw... Yeah doesn't look like its adjusting to Monica's light speed because if it did it would've hit her... Oh wait it did.

http://retconpunchdotcom.files.wordpress.com/2013/10/ma2_spear.jpg

NOW you get it, finally! FINALLY you understand my reply to your own assertion, which even used your own words.

So somehow the spear (or PM) knows the target's speed, and if its human level (i.e. Shuri) it will obligingly slow down, but if its a lightspeeder, it will speed up?

So all SG has to do is walk slowly at a human's level of speed, then at the last moment, dodge???

I can see that you still don't grasp that the Spectrum was an outlier, a PIS moment, though. Because the alternative to it is that somehow, it will be street-level against streets and lightspeed against light.

Or that it takes time to accelerate, which I then asked a question about, which you sadly ignored. Here it is again:

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
So...there is a sweet spot where if you're close enough, the spear is still pretty slow (as in it takes time to accelerate)?

Yeah, SG still wins this.

carver9

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Yes, but my point is that PM can SEE Steve turning around to face her. And still threw her spear directly at him, rather than have it go around his shield (which it can, indeed, do - change direction in midflight etc). Ergo, she is a poor fighter.

Lol...Do you always have to see a flaw in something? She probably did that because she could have thought that her weapon could go through Cap shield, she doesn't know the properties of his shield. You also have to remember that It is made out of an exploding sun. Why does that even matter when Supergirl doesn't have a shield to deflect her attack?

dial J for Josh

...How the hell was that a Pis moment? Hickman provided a synapses on proximas spear, proxima used her spear and it work the way Hickman said it would work... Also you are starting to sound ridiculous. Proximas spear adjusting isn't the end all be all of the attack...it is obviously just a great perk and ability it has. And some people come up with the worst arguments

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
So all SG has to do is walk slowly at a human's level of speed, then at the last moment, dodge?

Lets use common sense for a moment ( which is apparent that some people don't have. ) Proximas spear doesn't go "oh this guy is moving slow so I'm going to go slow to." Proxima looked at the situation and threw the attack as she saw fit. With your logic if the spear was thrown, and if that person it was thrown at stands still than the spear would freeze in place... The spear doesn't solely respond to the individuals actions... It simply adapts, that's why it is an exotic weapon. And obviously she throws her spear as she sees fit. She saw a weak wakandan soldier so she didn't put as much effort behind that toss. She saw Monicas unique abilities and fast movement so she tossed it with more velocity. Ever heard of people pulling their punch? Everyone doesn't always put 100% effort into an attack. Look at cap, there are times where he throws his shield and it knocks someone down.... But we saw that when he puts his full effort in he can decapitate a tank... This is basic stuff.

Bentley

The whole point of this thread is to prove Shuri is hardcore.

DarkSaint85

Originally posted by carver9
Lol...Do you always have to see a flaw in something? She probably did that because she could have thought that her weapon could go through Cap shield, she doesn't know the properties of his shield. You also have to remember that It is made out of an exploding sun. Why does that even matter when Supergirl doesn't have a shield to deflect her attack?

And if SG gets behind PM and uses her as a shield? Which she has the speed to do so.

@Dial J for Josh. So in character, she pulls her punches? I can go with that. Also explains why Luke Cage lasted as long as he did.

Red Lanterns aren't known for pulling their punches. PM dies.

@Bentley: actually, its for the whole of Wakanda. Shuri, a human, is able to easily spear PM. And even after doing so, PM still wouldn't take her seriously! Good thing too, as it enabled an even weaker human to save the queen.

Stoic

Or you're looking to deeply into it. Writers make errors, which allow for people to over analyze things that shouldn't be. The Spear is fast enough to catch Monica, and therefore it is fast enough to catch Supergirl. She doesn't know what happened in Wakanda, and therefore she will either stand there, and be hit by it, or try to out-fly it, and be hit by it. Either way she will be hit by it. We know that it can trace down it's prey due to how it did not fly in a straight line when tossed at Monica. We will see Proxima later, because she will be freed by Korvus in the future, and when that happens, and she comes back, we will know for sure just how powerful she is, and just how powerful, and fast her Spear is.

I know that you're wrong. You even know that you're wrong, but by all means continue prancing about finding ridiculous loopholes to jump into. Over analyzing the simplistic, to make it more than what it actually is. The writer never intended for anyone to look at what was placed on panel the way that you are looking at it. There were PIS moments involved, but not the way that you are seeing them. They were there to keep Captain America from dying, and to allow for Shuri to shine against a foe that would outright kill her. PM's stats are far greater than Shuri's. I'm sure that even you will agree on this. Then again who can tell with the way you see things.

dial J for Josh

Originally posted by Stoic
Or you're looking to deeply into it. Writers make errors, which allow for people to over analyze things that shouldn't be. The Spear is fast enough to catch Monica, and therefore it is fast enough to catch Supergirl. She doesn't know what happened in Wakanda, and therefore she will either stand there, and be hit by it, or try to out-fly it, and be hit by it. Either way she will be hit by it. We know that it can trace down it's prey due to how it did not fly in a straight line when tossed at Monica. We will see Proxima later, because she will be freed by Korvus in the future, and when that happens, and she comes back, we will know for sure just how powerful she is, and just how powerful, and fast her Spear is.

I know that you're wrong. You even know that you're wrong, but by all means continue prancing about finding ridiculous loopholes to jump into. Over analyzing the simplistic, to make it more than what it actually is. The writer never intended for anyone to look at what was placed on panel the way that you are looking at it. There were PIS moments involved, but not the way that you are seeing them. They were there to keep Captain America from dying, and to allow for Shuri to shine against a foe that would outright kill her. PM's stats are far greater than Shuri's. I'm sure that even you will agree on this. Then again who can tell with the way you see things.

thumb up

common sense.

carver9

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
And if SG gets behind PM and uses her as a shield? Which she has the speed to do so.

Now this could happen but why would Supergirl do all of that though? Proxima weapon isn't basic knowledge you know?

DarkSaint85

Also at dial J: when I talked about changing speeds, I was merely using your own logic.

Although now you've changed yet again to the spear being slow because PM threw it relatively gently.

Which is theory #3 coming from you now lol. First it was a spear that needed time to speed up, then it was a spear that adjusted itself according to the target's speed, and now it is PM pulling her punches.

DarkSaint85

Originally posted by carver9
Now this could happen but why would Supergirl do all of that though? Proxima weapon isn't basic knowledge you know?

Given PM's penchant for monologuing and boasting about her awesome weapon mid fight (which you showed with Cap) it doesn't have to be common knowledge.

although, prove that it isn't. Half of New York and most of the Avengers saw it in action, as did Wakandans. it's not exactly a complicated weapon.

dial J for Josh

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Also at dial J: when I talked about changing speeds, I was merely using your own logic.

Although now you've changed yet again to the spear being slow because PM threw it relatively gently.

Which is theory #3 coming from you now lol. First it was a spear that needed time to speed up, then it was a spear that adjusted itself according to the target's speed, and now it is PM pulling her punches.

http://images.killermovies.com/forums/customsmilies/facepalm.gif ... The spear requiring time to speed up was a theory and a possible good perk for the weapon in terms of adaptation... The other two claims were indeed facts. And why do you sound so surprised about people holding back? You know sandbagging is actually quite common in comics. If everyone was bloodlusted and went all out then things would be a lot different. And you cant use my own logic against me because I actually think about my arguments. I'm done here though because I see that although your the only one defending this argument, there is no convincing you.

abhilegend

Why is Monica getting tagged by her weapon is such a great showing? She doesn't always go lightspeed and has been tagged by normal arrows before. When she knew about it, she easily dodged them.

Stoic

Supergirl was kicked through a building, and nearly put down, while PM was causing an earthquake. Pretty sure SG won't be tossing PM around here. We also have no idea as to how fast PM is, which is another step you took without a reason for doing so.

As for PM talking about her weapon, it was the debut of the weapon, it had to be put out there like that so that the reader would know, or have some idea what it could do. This is pretty simple stuff. Once again you over analyze a situation to allow yourself some sort of vantage. You must deal with a lot of stupid people. It's the only way that you could possibly play the part that you're trying to sell here.

Stoic

Originally posted by abhilegend
Why is Monica getting tagged by her weapon is such a great showing? She doesn't always go lightspeed and has been tagged by normal arrows before. When she knew about it, she easily dodged them.

Don't play dumb. Monica saw a threat coming her way, and she tried to outrun it. She was unable to and was tagged. I guess if she was trying to outrun it, she could only have been moving at 60 MPH? Like I said please don't act stupid here Abhi.

DarkSaint85

Originally posted by dial J for Josh
http://images.killermovies.com/forums/customsmilies/facepalm.gif ... The spear requiring time to speed up was a theory and a possible good perk for the weapon in terms of adaptation... The other two claims were indeed facts. And why do you sound so surprised about people holding back? You know sandbagging is actually quite common in comics. If everyone was bloodlusted and went all out then things would be a lot different. And you cant use my own logic against me because I actually think about my arguments. I'm done here though because I see that although your the only one defending this argument, there is no convincing you.

Oh it's a fact now is it, that PM was holding back and her spear can change speed?

Yes I'm quite surprised that PM, a villain, a general in Thanos' army, and stated to be the most vicious member of the Cull Obsidian (in other words, the Black Death)....holds back.

Imagine if her opponent was blood lusted!!!!! Red Lanterns are known for their passive natures.

I can't see how you think your arguments through, tbh, but concession accepted.

abhilegend

Originally posted by Stoic
Don't play dumb. Monica saw a threat coming her way, and she tried to outrun it. She was unable to and was tagged. I guess if she was trying to outrun it, she could only have been moving at 60 MPH? Like I said please don't act stupid here Abhi.
I am just describing what she actually does in situations like that.

DarkSaint85

Originally posted by Stoic
Supergirl was kicked through a building, and nearly put down, while PM was causing an earthquake. Pretty sure SG won't be tossing PM around here.
So was Cage. if you really think SG can't replicate what CAge does, then....hmm. Not much I can say, really.

Except we know how she fights. She's slow enough to be tagged by a spear, and slow enough that CAge could pound on her. Whilst you can probably argue that she WANTED to get hit by a spear (no proof, btw) Cage still managed to punch her face in. Cage, who has been blitzed by a depowered Black Panther.

Hmm, actually, maybe I'm on to something here. Panther > all.

Yes, like she stopped to explain to Hulk in the very last issue of Infinity, and like how despite having Captain America's back to her, she stops to monologue and actually take the time to say goodbye. She also stopped to tell Shuri that she was going to throw a spear at her. Which wasn't at the debut of her weapon, either.

DarkSaint85

DarkRaiden

It does seem like PIS that Monica was tagged/affected. She normally can absorb any light and would have no reason to run or take damage. Just saiyan.

DarkSaint85

Originally posted by dial J for Josh
http://images.killermovies.com/forums/customsmilies/facepalm.gif ... The spear requiring time to speed up was a theory and a possible good perk for the weapon in terms of adaptation... The other two claims were indeed facts. And why do you sound so surprised about people holding back? You know sandbagging is actually quite common in comics. If everyone was bloodlusted and went all out then things would be a lot different. And you cant use my own logic against me because I actually think about my arguments. I'm done here though because I see that although your the only one defending this argument, there is no convincing you.

One further thing: Proxima Midnight only went to Wakanda because Black Dwarf (another FEARED general in Thanos' mighty army) was defeated and sent packing by Wakanda. Despite this earlier failure, and despite the fact that they were there to succeed where BD had earlier failed, and despite the fact Thanos himself was there overseeing operations, PM was still.......holding back.

Good point thumb up

With such a sh!tty army and sh!tty generals it's no wonder Thanos failed.

DarkSaint85

Originally posted by DarkRaiden
It does seem like PIS that Monica was tagged/affected. She normally can absorb any light and would have no reason to run or take damage. Just saiyan.

I can see that....so she's being chased, but not putting 100% effort in, because in the back of her mind, if she gets hit, she BELIEVES that she'd be able to absorb it.

I can actually see that being the case. But, no proof sad

Stoic

Originally posted by DarkSaint85

So was Cage. if you really think SG can't replicate what CAge does, then....hmm. Not much I can say, really.

Except we know how she fights. She's slow enough to be tagged by a spear, and slow enough that CAge could pound on her. Whilst you can probably argue that she WANTED to get hit by a spear (no proof, btw) Cage still managed to punch her face in. Cage, who has been blitzed by a depowered Black Panther.

Hmm, actually, maybe I'm on to something here. Panther > all.

Yes, like she stopped to explain to Hulk in the very last issue of Infinity, and like how despite having Captain America's back to her, she stops to monologue and actually take the time to say goodbye. She also stopped to tell Shuri that she was going to throw a spear at her. Which wasn't at the debut of her weapon, either.

How old is the character 9Proxima)? How many books has she been in? This may have been old news to you, but there are many people that have no idea who she is. Wolverine kept saying his speech about what he does best for years before they stopped putting it out there that he was a bad ass. The writers are introducing the character, and they have to put what she can do out there, so that people can quickly understand who she is, and roughly how powerful she is. I don't believe that I actually have to explain this to you.

Supergirl gets hit as well, and it doesn't take the Flash to hit her. Don't try to pull that BS about speed up, when Supergirl gets kicked around on the regular.

Cage was taking an ass whipping. If they continued for much longer more than just his nearly unbreakable ribs would have been destroyed. Cage was in bad shape at the end of that fight. Do I need to bring up how Cage One Shot KO'd the Rhino? And that the Rhino is in the Things weight class?

You claim too much too early. You should slow it down. We have no idea of her speed. We do know that her spear was able to hit Monica, and I hope that you don't believe that Monica was moving at a low rate of speed when she was weaving, and dodging to escape being hit by it.

Stoic

Originally posted by DarkRaiden
It does seem like PIS that Monica was tagged/affected. She normally can absorb any light and would have no reason to run or take damage. Just saiyan.

Do you know what the spear was putting out in terms of energy? or if it was energy at all? Do yourself a favor, and don't make assumptions when no one knows the full details yet. She was caught, it wasn't PIS. However if you want to get into PIS related feats, why don't we begin with mostly anything in comics. Do you really want to go there?

Stoic

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Or it was PIS that she got tagged.

She was hit, and she would be hit again if they fought again. It was not PIS. However the writers took the opportunity to allow Blue Marvel to shine through it all.

DarkSaint85

Originally posted by Stoic
How old is the character 9Proxima)? How many books has she been in? This may have been old news to you, but there are many people that have no idea who she is. Wolverine kept saying his speech about what he does best for years before they stopped putting it out there that he was a bad ass. The writers are introducing the character, and they have to put what she can do out there, so that people can quickly understand who she is, and roughly how powerful she is. I don't believe that I actually have to explain this to you.

Supergirl gets hit as well, and it doesn't take the Flash to hit her. Don't try to pull that BS about speed up, when Supergirl gets kicked around on the regular.

Cage was taking an ass whipping. If they continued for much longer more than just his nearly unbreakable ribs would have been destroyed. Cage was in bad shape at the end of that fight. Do I need to bring up how Cage One Shot KO'd the Rhino? And that the Rhino is in the Things weight class?

You claim too much too early. You should slow it down. We have no idea of her speed. We do know that her spear was able to hit Monica, and I hope that you don't believe that Monica was moving at a low rate of speed when she was weaving, and dodging to escape being hit by it.

Exactly. PM has very few appearances. And some of them aren't that impressive at all.

Lol @ using the Rhino. Oh my. The Rhino?? Damn. THE Rhino???

Also, the seismic activity seems mainly to stem from CAGE punching her, not PM punching:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11/114649/3492319-cage+vs+proxima+midnight.jpg

Note how she is unable (or perhaps, you want to spin it as unwilling??) to dodge, or block. Blood, flying from her mouth. Luke Cage, who again, as I said, was blitzed by a depowered Black Panther.

So the monologuing to Captain America when he had his back turned to her, about good captains (so she OBVIOUSLY knew who they were - carver, this is directed at you - and should know about Cap's awesome shield) and actually saying farewell to them etc - thus giving Cap time to prep himself (as carver/dial suggest) for her spear in FULL view of her - this is the writer establishing what she can do, is it??

As for you great point about BS and speed, at least we have FAST showings from Supergirl (abhi posted them on page 2). What higher speed feats do we have from PM? None, as you yourself admit. So we at least know SG can move faster than when she's portrayed in comic book fights, but from PM's side - nada.

dial J for Josh

Originally posted by Stoic
Do you know what the spear was putting out in terms of energy? or if it was energy at all? Do yourself a favor, and don't make assumptions when no one knows the full details yet. She was caught, it wasn't PIS. However if you want to get into PIS related feats, why don't we begin with mostly anything in comics. Do you really want to go there?

Originally posted by Stoic
She was hit, and she would be hit again if they fought again. It was not PIS. However the writers took the opportunity to allow Blue Marvel to shine through it all.

Stoic do what I did and give up. I said everything you said and they still can't grasp onto the idea that proxima's spear is unique. And they will ignore what you say and try to come up with an irrelevant argument to try to favor them. Logic doesn't seem to compute with them.

DarkSaint85

Originally posted by Stoic
Do I need to bring up how Cage One Shot KO'd the Rhino? And that the Rhino is in the Things weight class?

This is still amazing. Of all the examples of Cage, I still cannot believe you used this one.

Stoic

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Exactly. PM has very few appearances. And some of them aren't that impressive at all.

Lol @ using the Rhino. Oh my. The Rhino?? Damn. THE Rhino???

Also, the seismic activity seems mainly to stem from CAGE punching her, not PM punching:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11/114649/3492319-cage+vs+proxima+midnight.jpg

Note how she is unable (or perhaps, you want to spin it as unwilling??) to dodge, or block. Blood, flying from her mouth. Luke Cage, who again, as I said, was blitzed by a depowered Black Panther.

So the monologuing to Captain America when he had his back turned to her, about good captains (so she OBVIOUSLY knew who they were - carver, this is directed at you - and should know about Cap's awesome shield) and actually saying farewell to them etc - thus giving Cap time to prep himself (as carver/dial suggest) for her spear in FULL view of her - this is the writer establishing what she can do, is it??

As for you great point about BS and speed, at least we have FAST showings from Supergirl (abhi posted them on page 2). What higher speed feats do we have from PM? None, as you yourself admit. So we at least know SG can move faster than when she's portrayed in comic book fights, but from PM's side - nada.

Why laugh at Rhino, he is in the things weight class, and cage one shot KO'd him. Yes he is a scrub, but he has had prolonged fights with the Hulk.

Mainly to stem from Cage hitting her? Really? So she wasn't throwing any of those punches? Is this what you're saying?

I thought that we went over Captain America's plot armor. Marvel will never allow one of their cash cows to be killed by a relatively new character. Shit I bet that Captain America could survive a blast from Galactus.

The last part has nothing to do with anything, so try hard to stay on topic. i know that it's difficult with so many people developing ADHD these days, but can we just stay on topic? It would also help loads if you stopped low balling the shit out of PM in order to strengthen your stance. Well why should you? Because her highs are staggeringly far away from her lows. We saw what she was capable at the high end, but you would prefer to point out her lower showing. I mean should we bring up SG being hurt by being tossed into a car? No of course not.

PM doesn't need to keep up with SG, and we still have no idea just how fast she is. Batman has hit Superman, and he is not nearly as fast as Kal. Do you really want to get into how many time much slower characters have hit much faster ones? Or how weaker, and less durable characters have continued moving around from a blast that would have put a much tougher character down? It's called plot.

PM is new. I won't make any claims, to bolster her speed, while on the other hand perhaps you should refrain from doing the same in terms of making her seem as slow as a turtle. This brings me back to my first post on the subject. If Supergirl wants to win this, she had better take it to Proxima early on, or she will be killed. however taking it to anyone as aggressively as I am pointing out, is not really how she acts in character. Now is it? Exactly. Supergirl would be fighting a cold blooded murderer in Proxima, and she would have to act accordingly if she wants to survive this. Proxima's spear is not common knowledge, and Supergirl would have no idea what it is capable of. this is something that an objective mind would acknowledge. Would you say that you have the ability, to look at things objectively? If not, I can certainly understand, after all, there are those incapable of doing this.

cdtm

I don't have a problem with the PM's spear being fast enough to chase SG down.

Whether PM herself is fast enough to throw the spear before SG can rush her down, is something else.

Same argument as Thor's hammer flight compared to Thor.

Stoic

Originally posted by cdtm
I don't have a problem with the PM's spear being fast enough to chase SG down.

Whether PM herself is fast enough to throw the spear before SG can rush her down, is something else.

Same argument as Thor's hammer flight compared to Thor.

I don't see why she wouldn't get the chance to throw the spear. Once again someone is making claims that they aren't sure of. You don't know how fast Proxima is. no one knows this yet. I am also trying to understand why people are suddenly trying to paint Supergirl as some seasoned warrior? She isn't. She's just a teenage girl with super powers. She barely has any battle experience, and in character she isn't a murderer. Proxima on the other hand is a murderer, and would take no time in making up her mind to kill SG.

I kind of hope that you don't believe that SG is going to one shot PM. Cage's assault while looking impressive did not hurt PM, and he could have easily launched SG with that attack as well. It's not as if these girls weigh so much that Cage could not launch them. Blood? Batman could kick SG in the face and draw blood. The question is whether it would have any lasting effect.

carver9

DarkSaint85

Originally posted by Stoic
Why laugh at Rhino, he is in the things weight class, and cage one shot KO'd him. Yes he is a scrub, but he has had prolonged fights with the Hulk.

Because he has better feats, surely? It was amusing that you chose Rhino, someone who is actually the definition in this forum of CIS.

You're getting fairly aggressive - but its OK. This usually means I am getting through to you. Mainly. Not solely. SpOck didn't remark on the seismic activity until Cage started tapping into the heart force. Unless of course, PM was ALSO holding back when she was initially beating him down? And then, when Cage found his heart force, she too started throwing seismic activity level punches?

Well, you said it was the same as Batman and the Spectre - where the Spectre ALLOWED Batman to kick him.

I.e. you have no proof of these 'high-end' feats of hers. And will merely ignore the scan of her getting speared by Shuri.

Except we have scans of Kal moving fast. We have scans of Kara moving fast, so we at least know they are capable of those speeds. Your argument boils down to 'eh, PM's been hit before, but, we don't know if she was jobbing or not because she might be waaay faster than this. But we have no proof that she might be, only proof that she can be hit.

Claims? I have at least posted scans in this thread - she got speared in the shoulder by Shuri. Like I have always said, she only has three appearances, none of which showcase her as being a particular speedster or martial artist.

Red Lantern, dood. She's been chosen because she is aggressive, and has great rage in her heart. Exactly.

Well, it's hard to keep track, first I was told by dial J for Josh that she pulled her punches in Wakanda (hardly the actions of a stone cold killer) and now, you're ignoring the fact that Kara, has, on panel, been chosen to join one of the most ruthless, aggressive corps in the DC galaxy, who aren't exactly known for holding back.

DarkSaint85

Originally posted by Stoic
I don't see why she wouldn't get the chance to throw the spear. Once again someone is making claims that they aren't sure of. You don't know how fast Proxima is. no one knows this yet. I am also trying to understand why people are suddenly trying to paint Supergirl as some seasoned warrior? She isn't. She's just a teenage girl with super powers. She barely has any battle experience, and in character she isn't a murderer. Proxima on the other hand is a murderer, and would take no time in making up her mind to kill SG.

What a shy, unassuming, teenage girl:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120679/3623325-2014-02-05+07-39-02+-+green+lantern+(2011-)+028-003.jpg

cdtm

Originally posted by carver9
Are you implying that Supergirl would one shot her because in order for your argument to hold any weight...that is exactly what you'll have to be implying. Also, she is fast herself and extremely agile. She could probably dodge Supergirl initial blitz.

I'm implying at her speed level, initiative is hers. That could mean anything from one punch, to an attempted beatdown like Power Girl tried (and failed with) on Mordru.

There's fast, and there's high end speedster fast.

carver9

Originally posted by cdtm
I'm implying at her speed level, initiative is hers. That could mean anything from one punch, to an attempted beatdown like Power Girl tried (and failed with) on Mordru.

There's fast, and there's high end speedster fast.

With CIS on and her fighting "in character"?

leonidas

like almost ALL marvel characters speed when put up against a dc character IS an issue. at no point has PM been shown to be able to handle that level of speed, so i don't really see what the argument is. can kara ko her? THAT's different. i wonder how this would go if we simply granted hulk supergirl's proven speed......

tbh, i think the most likely outcome would be similar to the old supes vs the omega effect battle--he simply leads it BACK on darkseid. i could def see that happening here and PM getting impaled with her own weapon.

cdtm

Originally posted by carver9
With CIS on and her fighting "in character"?

In character right now is Red Lantern aggression, as DS's scan a few posts up demonstrates.

dial J for Josh

@Dark - Wow. I didn't think you would be petty enough to ignore the big picture and nitpick on something irrelevant so let me reword it so we can move on. Due to pis proxima didn't throw her spear to its highest capacity. Hope that sounds better... But it really doesn't matter because proxima could have brutally murdered shuri and her soliders solo, which is why they retreated. Now what other irrelevant point would you like to make that has nothing to do with this thread?

carver9

Originally posted by cdtm
In character right now is Red Lantern aggression, as DS's scan a few posts up demonstrates.

Which makes this even worse for her since she is basically busting through every attack that is thrown at her. She is fighting like a brute...not even trying to dodge anything.

DarkSaint85

Originally posted by dial J for Josh
@Dark - Wow. I didn't think you would be petty enough to ignore the big picture and nitpick on something irrelevant so let me reword it so we can move on. Due to pis proxima didn't throw her spear to its highest capacity. Hope that sounds better... But it really doesn't matter because proxima could have brutally murdered shuri and her soliders solo, which is why they retreated. Now what other irrelevant point would you like to make that has nothing to do with this thread?

Cool.

Every low showing of hers is PIS or CIS (Cap, Wakanda, being unable to dodge Cage in NYC) and every high showing of hers is her average (Spectrum).

That is essentially your stance.

cdtm

Originally posted by carver9
Which makes this even worse for her since she is basically busting through every attack that is thrown at her. She is fighting like a brute...not even trying to dodge anything.

She also has Kryptonian speed AND ring slinger speed (And they routinely travel between star systems).

Sure, if she charges into a spear, she dies. The debate, is who can shoot first.

DarkSaint85

Originally posted by carver9
Which makes this even worse for her since she is basically busting through every attack that is thrown at her. She is fighting like a brute...not even trying to dodge anything.

Which brings us neatly back to the original topic of speed. Any reaction feats of PM?

To survive a bullrush/speedblitz, you need one of three things:

1. Your own reflex speed. It's useless to try and bullrush the Flash, or Superman, for example.

2. Autoshields. Good luck trying to bullrush Constantine, or Dr Strange, or a GL (unless of course you;re THAT strong).

3. Durability. Imagine Quicksilver trying to bullrush Thanos. Lol.

So, we can pretty much assume based on being a Red Lantern, Kara will bullrush. Whilst screaming, and possibly vomiting. She will get right in PM's face the milisecond the match starts.

Does PM have ANY showings of any of the three items above?

carver9

Originally posted by cdtm
She also has Kryptonian speed AND ring slinger speed (And they routinely travel between star systems).

Sure, if she charges into a spear, she dies. The debate, is who can shoot first.

And she is still fighting Mindless...In a fashion that would make me question if she would start off with a speed blitz. Do you have scans of this version of Supergirl starting a battle off like this?

carver9

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Which brings us neatly back to the original topic of speed. Any reaction feats of PM?

To survive a bullrush/speedblitz, you need one of three things:

1. Your own reflex speed. It's useless to try and bullrush the Flash, or Superman, for example.

2. Autoshields. Good luck trying to bullrush Constantine, or Dr Strange, or a GL (unless of course you;re THAT strong).

3. Durability. Imagine Quicksilver trying to bullrush Thanos. Lol.

So, we can pretty much assume based on being a Red Lantern, Kara will bullrush. Whilst screaming, and possibly vomiting. She will get right in PM's face the milisecond the match starts.

Does PM have ANY showings of any of the three items above?

First show me this Supergirl starting off with a speeding invisible, can't react too bull rush. Then I will post speed fts for Proxima.

Stoic

Originally posted by DarkSaint85

Because he has better feats, surely? It was amusing that you chose Rhino, someone who is actually the definition in this forum of CIS.

You're getting fairly aggressive - but its OK. This usually means I am getting through to you. Mainly. Not solely. SpOck didn't remark on the seismic activity until Cage started tapping into the heart force. Unless of course, PM was ALSO holding back when she was initially beating him down? And then, when Cage found his heart force, she too started throwing seismic activity level punches?

Well, you said it was the same as Batman and the Spectre - where the Spectre ALLOWED Batman to kick him.

I.e. you have no proof of these 'high-end' feats of hers. And will merely ignore the scan of her getting speared by Shuri.

Except we have scans of Kal moving fast. We have scans of Kara moving fast, so we at least know they are capable of those speeds. Your argument boils down to 'eh, PM's been hit before, but, we don't know if she was jobbing or not because she might be waaay faster than this. But we have no proof that she might be, only proof that she can be hit.

Claims? I have at least posted scans in this thread - she got speared in the shoulder by Shuri. Like I have always said, she only has three appearances, none of which showcase her as being a particular speedster or martial artist.

Red Lantern, dood. She's been chosen because she is aggressive, and has great rage in her heart. Exactly.

Well, it's hard to keep track, first I was told by dial J for Josh that she pulled her punches in Wakanda (hardly the actions of a stone cold killer) and now, you're ignoring the fact that Kara, has, on panel, been chosen to join one of the most ruthless, aggressive corps in the DC galaxy, who aren't exactly known for holding back.

Cage certainly does have better feats. One is how he survived his conflict with PM.

My point is that Kal has been hit by slower characters, and it will happen again, so has the Flash. Staying on course, the Spear will hit her, and it won't take much effort for her to throw it. Another point was to remind you that bringing up low feats is poor form. PM does not have many appearances but the ones that she has are great enough to say that she could win this. it also shows that Supergirl isn't going to be one shot ending a conflict with her.

You presented scans that only show PM getting hit by Cage, but seemingly left out the rest in order to view this as one sided as possible. PM was not hurt by his assault, but he was hurt by hers. If Thanos had not shown up, Cage would have been put down, if not outright killed. he even spoke about how she had broken his nearly indestructible bones at the end of the conflict. I believe that you brought Cage into this to somehow low ball her, because you think very little of Cage. perhaps that's just my imagination though.

She may have rage in her heart but this does not make her a blood thirsty murderer. Proxima is a cold blooded killer. This is what caused Cage to rise to the occasion. he was fighting for the little people. The Hulk is the very epitome of rage, and he is not a murderer.

I don't know what that spear was made of, and neither do you. I am speaking of the Wakadan spear head that penetrated her shoulder. Do you have any citations telling me what it spear head was made of? Could the writer have mistakenly wrote the spear as being made of vibranium without realizing that this substance had been done away with? Things like this have happened in the past in comics.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
What a shy, unassuming, teenage girl:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120679/3623325-2014-02-05+07-39-02+-+green+lantern+(2011-)+028-003.jpg

Did she kill the noob GL in that comic? Has she killed anyone to date? Proxima has, and she wouldn't hesitate in attempting to throw her spear into SG's heart for the kill. This is something that we at least know. i will go back to my first post on the subject. Read it. understand it, and come to terms that I am not saying that SG can not win this, but in order or her to win, she will have to come strong, and be relentless. if not, she may die in a conflict with someone unwilling to hold back from killing.

dial J for Josh

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Cool.

Every low showing of hers is PIS or CIS (Cap, Wakanda, being unable to dodge Cage in NYC) and every high showing of hers is her average (Spectrum).

That is essentially your stance.

What the hell? Her being able to stomp the queen of Wakanda and her entire army is a low showing? .... Oh ok thumb up

and please I want you to go back and quote me where I even mentioned luke cage. Also Caps shield, one of the most powerful tools in the Marvel Universe which is nearly indestructible being able to deflect her spear... Yeah that's a very low showing thumb up

cdtm

Originally posted by carver9
First show me this Supergirl starting off with a speeding invisible, can't react too bull rush. Then I will post speed fts for Proxima.

Isn't that covered under the "full capacity" rule?

DS already posted a scan proving it's certainly in character for her to use bull rush tactics.

carver9

Originally posted by cdtm
Isn't that covered under the "full capacity" rule?

DS already posted a scan proving it's certainly in character for her to use bull rush tactics.

And that still doesn't take away from CIS. Also, what scans did DS post showing her combating faster than. Proxima could react?

DarkSaint85

Originally posted by Stoic
Cage certainly does have better feats. One is how he survived his conflict with PM.
Lol.

The oneS? Plural? She has more than one good showing? Pray, tell, what are they? First you talk up PM, saying how it was a good showing for Proxima that she was able to whup Cage so badly....and next, you're talking up Cage, saying its a good showing that he survived his fight.

Sling enough mud and perhaps it'll stick, eh? I only showed the one scan of the fight, because it was to show someone on Cage's level was able to draw blood (which laughs at your assertion that she wasn't hurt). Why would I post the other scans where she wasn't bleeding, when my point is to show her bleeding??? And yes, I do think a lot of Cage - but he is no speedster. She wasn't avoiding his blows.

Wow, now you're getting desperate. Yes, you're right, it was made of uru/adamantium/vibranium with a pinch of promethium, and just before throwing it, off panel, Shuri was blessed by Odin, Cytorrak, and had the Phoenix Force within her. Still doesn't take away the fact that she was unable to dodge it.

No, she hasn't, and that's no noob, that's Barreer Wot:
http://greenlantern.wikia.com/wiki/Barreer_Wot

The point of my scan was to show that she is NOT just some shy teenage girl who is hesitant about using her powers and hurting people.

In the very first minute. I did read it. And I am saying, Kara is relentless, and willing to come on strong.

cdtm

Originally posted by carver9
And that still doesn't take away from CIS. Also, what scans did DS post showing her combating faster than. Proxima could react?

No, you're thinking of pis, not cis.

The rules use Flash as an example, clearly stating that even though he doesn't end a fight in the first pico second, under "full capacity" mode, he will.

Sub out Kara for Barry, and you're asking for proof he ends the fight straight off.

DarkSaint85

Originally posted by dial J for Josh
What the hell? Her being able to stomp the queen of Wakanda and her entire army is a low showing? .... Oh ok thumb up

Yup. They have no vibranium (one of their main advantages). Yet a no name Wakandan was able to outreact her spear, and Shuri was able to spear her. Surely, you cannot see this as a low showing???

So this is a high showing? A depowered Black Panther blitzed Luke Cage - he's hardly the fastest with his hands and feet. And PM was unable to dodge/block him.

Not the shield. Calm down, and read.

It is how she gave Cap time to turn around and face her, ready, with his shield, after she was facing his back.

carver9

Originally posted by cdtm
No, you're thinking of pis, not cis.

The rules use Flash as an example, clearly stating that even though he doesn't end a fight in the first pico second, under "full capacity" mode, he will.

Sub out Kara for Barry, and you're asking for proof he ends the fight straight off.

Show me those scans. By the way...fighting to the best of his abilities Surfer beats Superman 10/10 via power absorption and Black hole in the brain. Do you agree?

DarkSaint85

Originally posted by carver9
Show me those scans. By the way...fighting to the best of his abilities Surfer beats Superman 10/10 via power absorption and Black hole in the brain. Do you agree?

Neither Supes/Surfer are in this thread.

With that said....

How do you think a Red Lantern fights?

dial J for Josh

Wow... I debunked that many post ago about her spear having the capacity to adjust, but that doesn't even matter because we've seen her spear catch a being traveling at light speed... Do you remember anything? Im not going to repeat myself over and over to someone who ignores facts. You can go hurr durr a human can react to it.... But guess what Super Girl will not outrun it and she will get hit. End of story.

DarkSaint85

Originally posted by dial J for Josh
Wow... I debunked that many post ago about her spear having the capacity to adjust, but that doesn't even matter because we've seen her spear catch a being traveling at light speed... Do you remember anything? Im not going to repeat myself over and over to someone who ignores facts. You can go hurr durr a human can react to it.... But guess what Super Girl will not outrun it and she will get hit. End of story.

You debunked nothing, and provided nothing but your own fan made theories as to what happened. Please don't confuse them with facts.

DarkSaint85

I was going to add to my post, but as you have such conspiracy theories (which really, makes me wonder about your 'normal' theories) I have decided to double post.

Still no word on how Shuri was able to spear her, and her suspect durability I see.....

God Cloth Seiya

Darksaint has solo'ed everyone in this thrread.

Golgo13

Darksaint FTW!

God Cloth Seiya

He is now DarkGod

carver9

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Neither Supes/Surfer are in this thread.

With that said....

How do you think a Red Lantern fights?

The way she is doing in comics? Blindly. That's why I am asking you for scans because I think you could have seen something that I haven't. So show me those speed fts from this version of Supergirl that is so fast Proxima wouldn't react.

I brought up the Surfer/Superman because some people are not consistent. If you are going to apply a rule in one fight...Do it in other battles as well. I've seen him debate for Superman against Surfer and using his style of debating, he would be extremely false in voting against Surfer vs ANY herald.

Golgo13

Originally posted by God Cloth Seiya
He is now DarkGod

He should change it to this. wink

cdtm

Originally posted by carver9
Show me those scans. By the way...fighting to the best of his abilities Surfer beats Superman 10/10 via power absorption and Black hole in the brain. Do you agree?

Yes?

DarkSaint85

Originally posted by carver9
The way she is doing in comics? Blindly. That's why I am asking you for scans because I think you could have seen something that I haven't. So show me those speed fts from this version of Supergirl that is so fast Proxima wouldn't react.

I brought up the Surfer/Superman because some people are not consistent. If you are going to apply a rule in one fight...Do it in other battles as well. I've seen him debate for Superman against Surfer and using his style of debating, he would be extremely false in voting against Surfer vs ANY herald.

Blindly....and slowly? Or quickly?

Why does Supergirl have to be so fast that PM can't see her or something? Per your own scans, in character, PM is going to stand there monologuing. If she is going to stand there and allow her dazed, bruised opponents to get back on their feet, then turn around and face her, with their shield ready to protect both themselves and others, hell, she could take all the time she needs.

In character, of course. PM seems like that. Giving fair warning to Shuri, toying with Cage (until he got the heart force, then she got frustrated), explaining her every move to Hulk, and saying fond farewells to the captains.

dial J for Josh

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Blindly....and slowly? Or quickly?

Why does Supergirl have to be so fast that PM can't see her or something? Per your own scans, in character, PM is going to stand there monologuing. If she is going to stand there and allow her dazed, bruised opponents to get back on their feet, then turn around and face her, with their shield ready to protect both themselves and others, hell, she could take all the time she needs.

In character, of course. PM seems like that. Giving fair warning to Shuri, toying with Cage (until he got the heart force, then she got frustrated), explaining her every move to Hulk, and saying fond farewells to the captains.

Yet you are ignoring everything we have said to counter your so call arguments. Lol at me making fan made theories when you just said for a fact Proxima is going to stand there and monologue. Stoic completely shut this theory down. Its sad that he had to say this... But it had to be said since not everyone uses common sense... And I'm the one making rediculous claims right?

Originally posted by Stoic
How old is the character 9Proxima)? How many books has she been in? This may have been old news to you, but there are many people that have no idea who she is. Wolverine kept saying his speech about what he does best for years before they stopped putting it out there that he was a bad ass. The writers are introducing the character, and they have to put what she can do out there, so that people can quickly understand who she is, and roughly how powerful she is. I don't believe that I actually have to explain this to you.

carver9

DarkSaint85

Originally posted by dial J for Josh
Yet you are ignoring everything we have said to counter your so call arguments. Lol at me making fan made theories when you just said for a fact Proxima is going to stand there and monologue. Stoic completely shut this theory down. Its sad that he had to say this... But it had to be said since not everyone uses common sense... And I'm the one making rediculous claims right?

Originally posted by carver9
Sloppy and fast but not fast to the point that Proxima wouldn't react.

She attacked Hulk first...THEN she explained her attack. She was still fighting Cage though. Are you really going there with your argument Dark? Like foreal?

Jeez, you two:

'Two great captains. Doing what all captains do best...

Farewell, humans! You were weak and deserved such a humble ending.'

That is what she said to Cap, which is the scene in question.

https://imageshack.com/i/5i4v5zj

Now, what did Stoic supposedly shoot me down?

Oh yes.

Originally posted by Stoic
The writers are introducing the character, and they have to put what she can do out there, so that people can quickly understand who she is, and roughly how powerful she is. I don't believe that I actually have to explain this to you.

How is ANY of that explaining what she can do and how powerful she is???? A wiser man then me convinced me of the length of time that passed:

Originally posted by carver9
His back was to her BEFORE she threw the spear. We see Cap picking Cap Marvel up. Then we see Proxima jumping up in the air, talking and throwing her spear. What was Cap doing during all of this? During the time she jumped up in the air...talked, THEN throwing her spear.

https://imageshack.com/i/5i4v5zj

I know how we can find that answer out. In the scan I posted, Captain Marvel is laid out on the ground, barely able to move while Cap is turned around helping her out. In this scan Captain Marvel is on her ft just like Cap. She isn't close to being as weary as she was during the time Cap picked her up. Time passed my friend.

https://imageshack.com/i/0553i3j

How much time...it's unclear but what we do know is A). Cap had his shield in his hands before the attack. B). Proxima jumped up in the air and said complete sentences before throwing the shield (which would give Cap time to turn around and face his opponent). C). A damaged Carol and Captain America was turned around at Proxima direction looking at her. All of this is shown here.

Stoic

Originally posted by DarkSaint85

Lol.

The oneS? Plural? She has more than one good showing? Pray, tell, what are they? First you talk up PM, saying how it was a good showing for Proxima that she was able to whup Cage so badly....and next, you're talking up Cage, saying its a good showing that he survived his fight.

Sling enough mud and perhaps it'll stick, eh? I only showed the one scan of the fight, because it was to show someone on Cage's level was able to draw blood (which laughs at your assertion that she wasn't hurt). Why would I post the other scans where she wasn't bleeding, when my point is to show her bleeding??? And yes, I do think a lot of Cage - but he is no speedster. She wasn't avoiding his blows.

Wow, now you're getting desperate. Yes, you're right, it was made of uru/adamantium/vibranium with a pinch of promethium, and just before throwing it, off panel, Shuri was blessed by Odin, Cytorrak, and had the Phoenix Force within her. Still doesn't take away the fact that she was unable to dodge it.

No, she hasn't, and that's no noob, that's Barreer Wot:
http://greenlantern.wikia.com/wiki/Barreer_Wot

The point of my scan was to show that she is NOT just some shy teenage girl who is hesitant about using her powers and hurting people.

In the very first minute. I did read it. And I am saying, Kara is relentless, and willing to come on strong.

You said absolutely nothing here.

You refused to acknowledge that Cage was going to die if the conflict kept going. Drawing blood does not mean that she was in any danger, which she wasn't he was. Throwing mud until it sticks? Is this how you try to squeeze out of a toughie? Sorry, but I caught that, and it isn't good enough. You have yet to address what I said. Your intentions were to bring Cage into this in order to show how weak PM was, however this did not work. Cage can give some of the mightiest characters a hard time these days. The Thing bloodied WW Hulk's face, but it's not as if he was in any danger... I know you know this, but I just thought it good to put it out there again just in case.

Do you know what the spear head was made of Yes or No? Simple answer is only required here. If it is no, why bring up what you don't know?

If she did not allow Captain America to turn around, which is what we call PIS brought on from writers, he would have died or been crippled. Marvel would never have that. Captain America like Batman are plot horses. Even after he died, he would not stay dead, and they wrote in some crap to bring him back. He took a hit from Gambit that put Gladiator on his ass. he wasn't even KO'd, and was left standing with shredded armor. Gladiator can take hits from Thor, and keep it somewhat together. So here's a suggestion, try to use Captain America a little less, and concentrate on how Supergirl survives from being chased down by a spear that up until now seemed pretty effective at taking down two very powerful characters.

If she hasn't killed anyone why post up a scan of her acting threatening? is that supposed to be what she does to PM? I hope not because GL's aren't exactly the most dominant characters in terms of physical might. Powerful yes, strong? Not so much.

The writers were introducing her, and in doing so had her spout off a lot about her powers in order to give the reader a sense of who she is, and what she can do. Are we in agreement? If so why are you still arguing about it?

cdtm

*Ahem*

On Cage, I agree he was outclassed.

But, doesn't the fact he was even hanging in there prove PM's not going to threaten Supergirls durability with her bare hands? We've seen Cage messed up much worse, by characters well below Karas strength level. (Say, Iron Fist. Or even Ragnarok.)

DarkSaint85

Well, that's that. This thread has the potential to rapidly descend into an all out flame war, so I will take my bow. I reckon leo, cdtm, abhi, Golgo and GodCloth (who threw his e-panties at me, gratefully received) are on my side, and Dial J, carver and Stoic are on the other.

Stoic, maybe even you are on my side, as you accept that if Supergirl came in fast, and came in strong (as all Red Lanterns do; hell, Guy GARDNER, had to tell her to rein herself in and don't just jump straight into a fight) she would win.

BUT, at this point, like I said, it could rapidly get into a flamewar, and I don't want to see it locked down, so I will bow out. I am by no means conceding my position, but I don't think I can convince the other side, and I know the other side can't convince me.

Peace out.

Bentley

You stayed classy, pwned, asked for names and left victorious.

Originally posted by Stoic
The Thing bloodied WW Hulk's face,

Aknowledge Ben's might my friend.

Originally posted by Stoic
but it's not as if he was in any danger...

Hater ahah

DarkSaint85

http://www.comicsbulletin.com/main/sites/default/files/reviews/images/1212/moloids.jpg

DarkRaiden

Originally posted by Stoic
Do you know what the spear was putting out in terms of energy? or if it was energy at all? Do yourself a favor, and don't make assumptions when no one knows the full details yet. She was caught, it wasn't PIS. However if you want to get into PIS related feats, why don't we begin with mostly anything in comics. Do you really want to go there?

Um....didn't the description say the spear turns into black light to pierce the target?

Monica can and always has been able to absorb light and at high levels. She's absorbed the energy from a hole in 2 universes before, I don't think that weapon would straight up trump her energy absorption.

I mean, we know it's energy and we know it's light, yet Monica didn't absorb or outrun it for w/e reason. Seems like PIS to me.

And btw, I'm not even taking sides here. I could see either PM or SG winning tbh.