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Darth Caedus vs. Hero of Tython
Darth Plagueis vs. Mace Windu

FORCE, SABERS, ALL OUT

Caedus>Tython
Plagueis>Mace

Tython>Caedus
Mace>Plagueis


weeeeeeeeeee!

Tython is not taking Caedus in either lightsabers or Force.

Caedus>Tython.

In terms of lightsabers, he held his own and injured greatly an enraged Luke Skywalke, who in return was the one who beat Palpatine in pure saber combat. He would have also outdueled Kyle Katarn, an expert swordsman, in only 15 seconds.
In terms of Force, he can move starships, tank ion canons with Force shields, go back in time, knows shatterpoint, and excellent lightning/telekensis.

Yeah, and Windu isn't lasting long against Plagueis and Caedus.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Tython is not taking Caedus in either lightsabers or Force.

Caedus>Tython.

In terms of lightsabers, he held his own and injured greatly an enraged Luke Skywalke, who in return was the one who beat Palpatine in pure saber combat. He would have also outdueled Kyle Katarn, an expert swordsman, in only 15 seconds.
In terms of Force, he can move starships, tank ion canons with Force shields, go back in time, knows shatterpoint, and excellent lightning/telekensis.

Luke was sloppy.

And the Hero beat Vitiate, Caedus' superior with the Force. Also Caedus doesn't have excellent lightning. IIRC the best feat he did with it was when he was unconscious or something. Its nowhere near Vitiates level.

That's your excuse? He was sloppy? He's the most powerful Jedi ever, and beat the most powerful Sith Lord ever. Seriously.


That means nothing. Just because Kenobi beats Maul does not make him a better force user, by this logic, Exile>Traya in force because she beat her.

Hold on, let me find the quote.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
That's your excuse? He was sloppy? He's the most powerful Jedi ever, and beat the most powerful Sith Lord ever. Seriously.

You and I both know that Lukes level wildly varies depending on plot. If Luke was fighting at the top of his game, he would have pinned Jacen like he did 2 books previously.


Originally posted by DarthAnt66
That means nothing. Just because Kenobi beats Maul does not make him a better force user, by this logic, Exile>Traya in force because she beat her.

I didn't say that the Hero was a better Force user. I said she beat Vitiate. If Vitiate was unable to beat the Hero with his Force abilities, I don't see how Caedus will either. He is not overwhelming her with TK or lightning.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Hold on, let me find the quote.

k

Quote?

The Vitiate in that fight was pathetic, don't bull me with his "force powers."
He tried to make illusions: the Hero cut them down.
Then he unleashed a puny force blast: the Hero tanked it.
Then he tried some weak lightning: the Hero blocked it.

Nothing happened that Darth Maul couldn't accomplish.

Hold on.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Quote?

"In the next instant, Caedus found himself flying across the cabin toward his observation bubble. Luke had not gestured, had not flinched, had not even shifted his gaze; he had simply grabbed Caedus in the Force and hurled him five meters into his chair.

"Don't lie." Luke started across the cabin. "I'm getting tired of it."

Caedus sprang out of the chair... or attempted to. Instead, he found himself struggling against an invisible weight. He felt as if he were accelerating to lightspeed with a faulty inertial compensator.

"Luke, you've gone mad." Caedus reached for the controls on the arm of his chair and discovered he couldn't even do that much. "You can't do this. I know you're having trouble dealing with Mara's death, but..."

"This has nothing to do with Mara, "Luke said. "And you're lucky it doesn't. If she were here-if she had known what you were using Ben for-there'd be pieces of you scattered along the entire length of the Hydian Way."

The irony of the statement was far from lost on Caedus, but he was too astonished-and too frightened-to take any pleasure in it. While it was true that Luke had taken him by surprise, it was equally true that he had done so with no visible effort-and that he was continuing to hold him with no apparent exertion."

They have a lengthy conversation. Caedus tries to rise several times and can't. And later:

"He pointed at the base of Jacen's meditation chair and made a tapping motion with his finger. The pedestal gave a loud whumpf, and the seat dropped a quarter meter.

"Because you really don't want to see me angry." Luke made the tapping motion again. The pedestal emitted a metallic shriek, and the seat dropped another quarter meter. "And I think you're smart enough to know that."

Luke tapped a last time, and the pedestal collapsed with a low loud crump, depositing Caedus on the floor with his feet sticking out in front of him like a child.

"But if you want to try me, go ahead and make that threat."

Luke lowered his hand, and the weight vanished from Caedus's chest. He could have leapt up to attack-had he been that foolish-but Sith were not slaves to their emotions. Avenging his humiliation could wait until after he had saved the Alliance."


Originally posted by DarthAnt66
The Vitiate in that fight was pathetic, don't bull me with his "force powers."
He tried to make illusions: the Hero cut them down.
Then he unleashed a puny force blast: the Hero tanked it.
Then he tried some weak lightning: the Hero blocked it.

Nothing happened that Darth Maul couldn't accomplish.

Lmao.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Hold on.

Hurry up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWk3eveC4Jo
1:12:30
He makes a Jaina amped by Luke Skywalker (it is said in this amp, she could punch through a durasteel wall and catch a blaster bolt between her fingers) fly across the room and make Jaina unable to even move.

lol you really overrated this.

This doesn't show Luke was sloppy at all. The character itself has not been that inconsistent besides the Jedi Academy series, which is a joke anyways. Luke is able to pin Caedus down by taking him by surprise, however in their actual duel, the best Luke can do is hurl Caedus, as Caedus did to him as well. This is not a fair demonstration of Caedus's powers when the character is completely unprepared. This is like when Sidious shoots Yoda with lightning in ROTS and marks Yoda unconscious.


You don't think Maul couldn't do those three things?
The illusion Vitiate's were fodder.
The lightning was weak enough to be blocked with a saber.
The push is tanked by Hero, and yet Maul has better resilience feats.

Why not? He fared rather excellently when faced with Palpatine.



Lolwut?



Woah, when did he do this? I'd like a quote.

IIRC according to Intrepid, he also pulled a moving starfighter out of the sky and threw it too.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWk3eveC4Jo
1:12:30
He makes a Jaina amped by Luke Skywalker (it is said in this amp, she could punch through a durasteel wall and catch a blaster bolt between her fingers) fly across the room and make Jaina unable to even move.

Lol, pathetic. He put his hand right on her and zapped her, so theres no possibility of a force shield and he still didn't kill her.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Luke is able to pin Caedus down by taking him by surprise, however in their actual duel, the best Luke can do is hurl Caedus, as Caedus did to him as well. This is not a fair demonstration of Caedus's powers when the character is completely unprepared. This is like when Sidious shoots Yoda with lightning in ROTS and marks Yoda unconscious.

Luke keeps Caedus pinned through their whole conversation without effort with him trying multiple times to stand up. Its not the same as the Sidious thing because Sidious wasn't doing it over a long period of time while Yoda was failing to resist,. Also, in another scene Jacen directly challenges Luke's TK and Luke rebukes him so forcefully he breaks Jacens his collarbone.


Originally posted by DarthAnt66
You don't think Maul couldn't do those three things?
The illusion Vitiate's were fodder.
The lightning was weak enough to be blocked with a saber.
The push is tanked by Hero, and yet Maul has better resilience feats.

I thought you were backing the Hero as your second fanboy crush.

Agreed on the illusions.

Theres no such thing as 'so weak it was enoug to be blocked by a saber.' Sidious' lightning was blockable by a lightsaber. Whether of not lightning can be blocked by a lightsaber is up to the strength of the person wielding the lightsaber. For example, in The Third Lesson Malgus' lightning blows through the lightsaber defense of the Zabrak Jedi. But Aryn Leneer was able to block his lightning in midair. However, after Malgus' epiphany his lightning blew her lightsabers from her hand. Vitiates lightning was blocked by the Hero because the Hero is just that good at blocking lightning.

That's retarded. The feat has nothing to do with resilience you dork. That the Hero tanked Vitiates exhausted push is only proof of the Hero's strength in the Force, again. I mean, we know that Vitiate was still powerful enough to collapse the temple.



Originally posted by NewGuy01
Why not? He fared rather excellently when faced with Palpatine.

Both at the same time? Palpatine isn't equal to Plagueis and Caedus together.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I mean, we know that Vitiate was still powerful enough to collapse the temple.


hehe

@NewGuy
JAINA: "I've known him to move starships, deflect ion cannon...even turbolasers. He can hear at huge distances with some Theran Force-lightning technique. He can create elaborate Force illusions that feel read, he can walk into the past or future, he can control objects like scanners, and he can mind-rub, he even mind-rubbed Ben."
BOBA: "Made him forget."
JAINA: "Yes."
......
BOBA: "If he can stop turbolasers single-handed, why does he need a fleet?"
JAINA: "Again, no idea."
BOBA: "Why does he need shields on ships when he can create his own?."

As I recall, Jacen reflects a gunships ion cannon's in the Dark Nest trilogy with a Force Bubble of some kind.

Holy shit, Caedus can deflect TURBOLASERS?

Anyways, I really want to see more of Caedus's illusion feats as well. The only one I know of is when he made himself look like Ben to Mara.

I'd definitely need an actual feat to believe him deflecting turbolasers.

No where as pathetic as this:
http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/5-16-2014/yx_rHs.gif

Like I said, Caedus never uses any Force powers.

Was that when Caedus was on the Star Destroyer and Luke was in a ship and Caedus tried to focus on Luke and he got injured, or am I mixing things together?

I realized doing that would provide wank to Vitiate.
No way.

You are suggesting that blocking lightning is more then holding out a lightsaber and putting some effort to it?

Hero prefers a Force Resistance feat...simple as that.

Caedus Turbo Feat: "Jacen and Tahiri standing back-to-back, Jacen holding his hand above their heads, cannon fire ricocheting away as though he held a deflector shield in his palm. That was something Jaina and Zekk had never seen before. "

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Like I said, Caedus never uses any Force powers.

Its a safe assumption that if he's straining against Lukes hold physically, he's doing so with the Force as well. Just like with Maul and his brother vs Sidious.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Was that when Caedus was on the Star Destroyer and Luke was in a ship and Caedus tried to focus on Luke and he got injured, or am I mixing things together?

No, it was when they were dogfighting. Luke starts rummaging around in Jacens engine, screwing it up a bit and Jacen tries to block him from doing so. Luke responds by smacking Jacen so hard his cockpit chair shears off its hinges and Jacen breaks his collar on his controls.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
You are suggesting that blocking lightning is more then holding out a lightsaber and putting some effort to it?

Yes, obviously.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Hero prefers a Force Resistance feat...simple as that.

Right. He resisted him with the Force.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Caedus Turbo Feat: "Jacen and Tahiri standing back-to-back, Jacen holding his hand above their heads, cannon fire ricocheting away as though he held a deflector shield in his palm. That was something Jaina and Zekk had never seen before. "

Ion or Turbo cannon?

Turbo.
"...the turbolaser gunners were once again beginning to concentrate their fire on the Jedi."

I don't care for your assumptions.

Did Caedus try to block it, or was that a surprise too?

Interesting..

*Force Resistance*
Maul has some real good showings in that.

Wow Caedus is stronger than I thought. If he can deflect turbolasers then he's basically tanking Island busting levels of energy, and that's assuming that it's one of the weaker turbolasers from a troop transport carrier.

It was from a starship.

So we have country level Caudeus to maybe continent level? I'm ok with this.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Turbo.
"...the turbolaser gunners were once again beginning to concentrate their fire on the Jedi."

Impressive.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
I don't care for your assumptions.

I don't care what you care about.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Did Caedus try to block it, or was that a surprise too?

He was trying to block Lukes TK, like I said.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
*Force Resistance*
Maul has some real good showings in that.

I have no clue what you're driving at. In any case, the Hero actually resisting the TK of a guy capable of tearing down a temple is a stellar feat for her.

Originally posted by The Merchant
Wow Caedus is stronger than I thought. If he can deflect turbolasers then he's basically tanking Island busting levels of energy, and that's assuming that it's one of the weaker turbolasers from a troop transport carrier.

Lolwut?

Quote? Or if you can't provide that, book and chapter number?

*him
Maul has Force Resistance feats, good ones to. Therefore, he should be able to tank the blast as well. Quite simple.

Turbolasers as stated by the ICS is 200 Gigatons per shot and that's not even from a capital ship. That's enough to destroy an Island the size of Hawaii in an instant, and the blast radius can cover something around the size of Colorado.

Whats ICS?

The Incredible-Cross Sections, specifically the complete cross-sections. It is an encyclopedia of the power of starships in Star Wars. The 200 Gigatons per shot quote comes from the Acclamator-I class star destroyer, the weakest Star Destroyer in its line. Going by scaling the Imperial Star Destroyer should at LEAST be 10 times stronger, and that's ignoring how in Star Wars ships are not increased in power by simple linear scaling of their sizes. The Victory class Star destroyer, which is still weaker than an Imperial class, can shoot over 400 Petatons per shot with its turbolasers, and that's enough to blow up a continent.

Well.. The hell. I'll need the measurement in amounts of energy.

I can't be bothered to calculate gigatons into joules, but if they can transfer that much energy into something like a person and not vaporize them physics is dead.

It's crazy, but here. 200 gigatons is 8.368e+20 Joules. And hey, this is the same universe that makes the Force able to react to Lightspeed firepower and whatnot, so the Force is just that broken.

Yup, the Force is OP.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Quote? Or if you can't provide that, book and chapter number?

*him
Maul has Force Resistance feats, good ones to. Therefore, he should be able to tank the blast as well. Quite simple.

"Luke's StealthX nudged him again from behind-how? Caedus couldn't see. Force push? Something metallic inside the fuselage shrieked. He had a sense of someone rummag-ing furiously in the drives as if looking for a dropped hydrospanner, throwing fragments into the coils. He's ripping the thing apart...

Caedus tried to block Luke in the Force and suddenly got an idea of just how much power Luke could muster. His seat shot forward, sheared off the runners, tipped to one side, and he hit the console at an angle before he could buffer the collision with the Force. Something cracked in his chest. Pain flared, stopping his breathing. "

You're trolling me with that Maul thing. Nice try, but no dice.

See: Savage Opress.