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All at the Peak of their Game
Full Brutality
Brawl
No BFR/PIS/CIS

Bump

Mystique loses. Shes more skilled, quicker, and more agile, but doesn't have the strength to knock him out in a brawl.

Bucky as Winter Soldier? Or Bucky as normal soldier?

Originally posted by FrothByte
Bucky as Winter Soldier? Or Bucky as normal soldier?

Its Spite either way.

Normal Bucky loses hard, OP Buckey, Raven loses hard.

Max is back, whats new..

Originally posted by Arachnid1
Mystique loses. Shes more skilled, quicker, and more agile, but doesn't have the strength to knock him out in a brawl.

She doesn't need to. She can create claws that slice through metal.

Mystique wins.

Originally posted by ares834
She doesn't need to. She can create claws that slice through metal.

Mystique wins.

I don't think she can copy adamantium. In any case, even if she had claws I'd still root for Winter Soldier.

Winter Soldier wins.

She may annoy him, but he will catch her sooner or later and that is going to be GG.

Winter Soldier wins. Mystique is more agile, but she isn't faster, stronger or more skilled than a guy who can go toe-to-toe with Captain America.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Its Spite either way.

Normal Bucky loses hard, OP Buckey, Raven loses hard.

Max is back, whats new..
Didn't know you cared babe

Originally posted by FrothByte
I don't think she can copy adamantium. In any case, even if she had claws I'd still root for Winter Soldier.

IIRC, she sliced through a metal chain in the first movie.

Yeah she did

I thought logan was the one that cut through the metal fence. hmmm I guess not. still, bucky just needs to touch her chin once with that left hand its a done deal

Cutting through metal doesn't = Adamantium though. And I'm pretty certain she's not doing more than superficial damage to that arm.

It took Cap level strength and a Vibranium shield to make a small slash into the arm. I don't see her doing much damage to it.

Originally posted by KingD19
Cutting through metal doesn't = Adamantium though. And I'm pretty certain she's not doing more than superficial damage to that arm.

Well... Yeah. Wolverine cuts through her claws so clearly they aren't adamantium level. Doesn't change the fact that she can carve through Bucky's flesh easily enough.

What he said

Bucky shoots her and everyone else around to make sure he got her.

Originally posted by Zack Fair
Winter Soldier wins.

She may annoy him, but he will catch her sooner or later and that is going to be GG.

Is this human Bucky or WS Bucky?

Winter Soldier destroys, curbstomps, shitstomps, etc

Where on earth are people getting this notion that the WS is as skilled as mystique? that literally couldn't be further from the truth. The movies slap us in the face wit who is more skilled and it's clearly mystique.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Where on earth are people getting this notion that the WS is as skilled as mystique? that literally couldn't be further from the truth. The movies slap us in the face wit who is more skilled and it's clearly mystique.

Where on earth are people getting this notion that Mystique is as skilled as WS? Winter Soldier matched Captain America. Who has Mystique taken on that had that level of skill?

She took down a room of armed soldiers with ease

Originally posted by Psychotron
Is this human Bucky or WS Bucky?



same thing.

Originally posted by maxivitopowe
She took down a room of armed soldiers with ease

Like I said, whom has she fought who was as skilled as Cap?

Originally posted by Kazenji


same thing.

OK. Is this regular soldier Bucky or Cyborg Assassin Bucky?

Bucky wins this.

Bucky stomps, nothing about Mystique gives her an advantage, not even her shape shifting i think cuz once she gets up close to try and kill him he will most likely tank the first shot and kill her after that

Originally posted by maxivitopowe
She took down a room of armed soldiers with ease So did Cap, except they were highly trained Shield operatives and he was handcuffed. Cap isn't that much more skilled than WS.

I'd put Mystique on BW level, who WS is better than.

Originally posted by pym-ftw
Bucky shoots her and everyone else around to make sure he got her.
Pretty much sums it up.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Where on earth are people getting this notion that Mystique is as skilled as WS? Winter Soldier matched Captain America. Who has Mystique taken on that had that level of skill?

Are you honestly blind or just being obtuse on purpose. Do you see the acrobatic moves she pulls off with utter ease? She's shown agility and skills Bucky has even dreamed of showing in the movies. Further, you ask a question and get a simple answer which you walked yourself into and there is no getting out of now. She got the better of Wolverine... and this is vastly more impressive than anybody Cap has beaten or Bucky has beaten. Thanks for making my case for me.

Originally posted by Mindset
So did Cap, except they were highly trained Shield operatives and he was handcuffed. Cap isn't that much more skilled than WS.

I'd put Mystique on BW level, who WS is better than. nah, Mystique is more skilled and faster than Widow.

I'd say Mystique is on (or slightly above) Bucky's level in mastial arts, but loses due to Bucky's ability to absorb any damage she can deal and one-shot her in return.

Originally posted by marwash22
nah, Mystique is more skilled and faster than Widow.

I'd say Mystique is on (or slightly above) Bucky's level in mastial arts, but loses due to Bucky's ability to absorb any damage she can deal and one-shot her in return. Based on what? Because she does flips and is flexible?

Cap is better than Mystique, that's really not up for debate, and WS and Cap were fighting on fairly equal terms for most of the movie.

Mystique has never beaten anyone of note.

Mystique transforms herself into Steve Rogers and then kicks Bucky's ass

Originally posted by Robtard
Mystique transforms herself into Steve Rogers and then kicks Bucky's ass Nope, she may look like a man, but deep down she's still a woman.

Man > woman.

That's science.

Originally posted by Mindset
Based on what? Because she does flips and is flexible? watch the fight against Wolverine from the first movie, she's clearly above Widow's human level abilities.

Originally posted by Mindset
Cap is better than Mystique, that's really not up for debate, and WS and Cap were fighting on fairly equal terms for most of the movie. i never claimed otherwise. I already said Bucky wins.

Originally posted by Mindset
Mystique has never beaten anyone of note.

lol, neither has Widow.

However, Mystique has fought superhuman's... meanwhile, Widow ran from Bucky as to not get her shit pushed in.

Human Bucky. Because we just love watching Mystique beat the crap out of people.

Originally posted by marwash22
watch the fight against Wolverine from the first movie, she's clearly above Widow's human level abilities.

i never claimed otherwise. I already said Bucky wins.



lol, neither has Widow.

However, Mystique has fought superhuman's... meanwhile, Widow ran from Bucky as to not get her shit pushed in. Wolverine was a shitty fighter in the first movie. Without his claws he would have lost to pretty much anyone. They didn't show him with any actual skill until the later movies.

Yea, which is why I have BW and Mystique on the same level, below that of WS and Cap.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Are you honestly blind or just being obtuse on purpose. Do you see the acrobatic moves she pulls off with utter ease? She's shown agility and skills Bucky has even dreamed of showing in the movies. Further, you ask a question and get a simple answer which you walked yourself into and there is no getting out of now. She got the better of Wolverine... and this is vastly more impressive than anybody Cap has beaten or Bucky has beaten. Thanks for making my case for me.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but fighting skill is not determined by who has the fancier moves. Because if that was the case then gymnasts would beat up every single boxer or wrestler in a fight.

Mystique is more acrobatic, more flexible and more agile than Winter Soldier. That still doesn't mean that she's the better fighter.

She took out a bunch of armed fodder. Nothing exactly new in the superhero wold. Black Widow constantly takes out groups of armed men, look how easily Winter Soldier took her out.

Wolverine in the movies is one hell of a crappy fighter. I'm going to pretend that I simply misunderstood your last comment and hope you didn't really mean to say that Wolverine is actually more skilled than Captain America.

Fact is, Mystique still hasn't fought against anyone of decent skill. Definitely no one of Cap's level, not even on BW's level.

Originally posted by Mindset
Based on what? Because she does flips and is flexible?

Cap is better than Mystique, that's really not up for debate, and WS and Cap were fighting on fairly equal terms for most of the movie.

Mystique has never beaten anyone of note.

How does this make any sense? You compared Mystique to BW... and then said BW fought on even terms with Cap... yet losses to Bucky who cap beat... Odd logic

Originally posted by Mindset
Wolverine was a shitty fighter in the first movie. Without his claws he would have lost to pretty much anyone. They didn't show him with any actual skill until the later movies.

Yea, which is why I have BW and Mystique on the same level, below that of WS and Cap.

Negative... Wolverine was hundreds of years old by that point... fought in many wars.. some of which was close quarters combat. A had fought Sabertooth many a time... even beating him... somebody who again is above Cap. Wolverine as took out Agent Zero...and fought with Weapon X. He clearly was a superb fighter.

Bucky wins.

Thats it.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Sorry to burst your bubble, but fighting skill is not determined by who has the fancier moves. Because if that was the case then gymnasts would beat up every single boxer or wrestler in a fight.

Mystique is more acrobatic, more flexible and more agile than Winter Soldier. That still doesn't mean that she's the better fighter.

She took out a bunch of armed fodder. Nothing exactly new in the superhero wold. Black Widow constantly takes out groups of armed men, look how easily Winter Soldier took her out.

Wolverine in the movies is one hell of a crappy fighter. I'm going to pretend that I simply misunderstood your last comment and hope you didn't really mean to say that Wolverine is actually more skilled than Captain America.

Fact is, Mystique still hasn't fought against anyone of decent skill. Definitely no one of Cap's level, not even on BW's level.

As I stated above... Wolverine had already beaten Sabertooth at least once by the time he fought mystique. Somebody who's healing factor and strength is above Cap's. Beaten Agent Zero and Gambit and fought Weapon X. Comics and the movies make it clear Wolverine's healing factor is above CaP'S ... Same with strength feats. In comics we see wolverine beat people Cap could only dream of beating... Which makes it clear how skilled he is. Fact is, BW kept up with Cap... Mystique is better than her. Cap beat bucky... thus Mystique can beat Bucky. Simple

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
As I stated above... Wolverine had already beaten Sabertooth at least once by the time he fought mystique. Somebody who's healing factor and strength is above Cap's. Beaten Agent Zero and Gambit and fought Weapon X. Comics and the movies make it clear Wolverine's healing factor is above CaP'S ... Same with strength feats. In comics we see wolverine beat people Cap could only dream of beating... Which makes it clear how skilled he is. Fact is, BW kept up with Cap... Mystique is better than her. Cap beat bucky... thus Mystique can beat Bucky. Simple

First of all, this is the MvF. Comics don't count here.

2nd, Wolverine beat all of those opponents due to his adamantium skeleton and claws as well as his healing factor. He did not defeat them due to his superior h2h skills... which I believe was what you were trying to prove. Wolverine in the movies is a hack and slash brawler. If it wasn't for his healing and adamantium he'd have lost majority of the fights he got in to.

Sabertooth beat the crap out of Wolverine when they were on equal terms. It was only when he got his adamantium that Wolverine beat him.

Anyway the point is, Wolverine in the movies shows no where near the fighting skill that Cap displayed, so you're still stuck with the fact that Mystique has never fought anyone of decent skill.

You also seem to have evaded my point of fancier moves != fighting skill.

And where are you getting this idea that BW kept up with Cap? She never has. Please tell me what scene in the movies make you believe this.

Originally posted by FrothByte
First of all, this is the MvF. Comics don't count here.

2nd, Wolverine beat all of those opponents due to his adamantium skeleton and claws as well as his healing factor. He did not defeat them due to his superior h2h skills... which I believe was what you were trying to prove. Wolverine in the movies is a hack and slash brawler. If it wasn't for his healing and adamantium he'd have lost majority of the fights he got in to.

Sabertooth beat the crap out of Wolverine when they were on equal terms. It was only when he got his adamantium that Wolverine beat him.

Anyway the point is, Wolverine in the movies shows no where near the fighting skill that Cap displayed, so you're still stuck with the fact that Mystique has never fought anyone of decent skill.

You also seem to have evaded my point of fancier moves != fighting skill.

And where are you getting this idea that BW kept up with Cap? She never has. Please tell me what scene in the movies make you believe this.

You can say he hasn't shown skills but that doesn't make it so... He BEAT those people.. You said Mystique hasn't beaten anybody of significance. She has, she beat Wolverine and got the better of the fight. You then said Wolverine wasn't impressive. At which point, I pointed out that in the movies he's Beaten Sabertooth... Agent Zero.. Gambit... which are all impressive. You defeat your whole argument though. Cap... isn't as pretty when he fights as mystique. So obviously fancy moves don't impressive. So, why is that now being held against Wolverine? He beat those people I named, and obviously it was at least partially because of skill. If he was never able to land any blows.. and just tanked everything.. Sure you could say no skill and only healing factor. However, he was able to land blows which is how he won. Period end of story. Fact is, I never said who would win for sure. I got into the argument because people were saying Cap is more skilled than Mystique and that couldn't be further from the truth.

You seem to be under the impression that pretty moves are just for sure and don't prove a superior fighter. Not true, there are countless examples of pretty crazy moves proving decisive in real life fights. Whether it be MMA or Boxing. Often times the guy with the flashier moves DOES win. Haven't you not seen many fights?

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
You can say he hasn't shown skills but that doesn't make it so... He BEAT those people.. You said Mystique hasn't beaten anybody of significance. She has, she beat Wolverine and got the better of the fight. You then said Wolverine wasn't impressive. At which point, I pointed out that in the movies he's Beaten Sabertooth... Agent Zero.. Gambit... which are all impressive. You defeat your whole argument though. Cap... isn't as pretty when he fights as mystique. So obviously fancy moves don't impressive. So, why is that now being held against Wolverine? He beat those people I named, and obviously it was at least partially because of skill. If he was never able to land any blows.. and just tanked everything.. Sure you could say no skill and only healing factor. However, he was able to land blows which is how he won. Period end of story. Fact is, I never said who would win for sure. I got into the argument because people were saying Cap is more skilled than Mystique and that couldn't be further from the truth.

You seem to be under the impression that pretty moves are just for sure and don't prove a superior fighter. Not true, there are countless examples of pretty crazy moves proving decisive in real life fights. Whether it be MMA or Boxing. Often times the guy with the flashier moves DOES win. Haven't you not seen many fights?

Guy with flashier moves win the fight? Man, you're the one who needs to see real fights. Don't just base your knowledge on movie fights. Watch MMA. Do you see them utilizing multiple spinning flying kicks? Do you see them utilize backhand karate chops and monkey style kung fu? No you don't. Most of the time they stick to simple and practical moves.

Wolverine won against his opponents due to healing factor, adamantium claws and skeleton. Does he have some fighting skill? Of course he has. He's a fighter after all. Does he have good fighting skill? No he doesn't. You'd have to be blind to claim so. He barely ducks blows, usually just tanks them. And he always has trouble against actual skilled opponents: Mystique, Deathstrike, Deadpool, etc.

That said, I never said Mystique wasn't skilled, just that she has never fought against anyone of decent skill. Wolverine is a brawler. Take away his adamantium and Sabertooth beat the crap out of him. Besides, Wolverine beat Mystique. She got stabbed remember?

Wolverine didn't beat Mystique in a fight, iirc.

She was disguised as Storm, Logan happened to 'see' through it due to his enhanced olfactory abilities and he surprise-stabbed her.

Wolverine barely showed any skill in that movie, he got by mostly on his mutant powers and adamantium.

All those fights against Sabertooth, Agent Zero, Gambit, etc happened PRIOR to Logan losing his memories so any skill showings there don't count in his fight against Mystique. X1 takes place AFTER and it's clear he's just a hack & slash brawler.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Guy with flashier moves win the fight? Man, you're the one who needs to see real fights. Don't just base your knowledge on movie fights. Watch MMA. Do you see them utilizing multiple spinning flying kicks? Do you see them utilize backhand karate chops and monkey style kung fu? No you don't. Most of the time they stick to simple and practical moves.

Wolverine won against his opponents due to healing factor, adamantium claws and skeleton. Does he have some fighting skill? Of course he has. He's a fighter after all. Does he have good fighting skill? No he doesn't. You'd have to be blind to claim so. He barely ducks blows, usually just tanks them. And he always has trouble against actual skilled opponents: Mystique, Deathstrike, Deadpool, etc.

That said, I never said Mystique wasn't skilled, just that she has never fought against anyone of decent skill. Wolverine is a brawler. Take away his adamantium and Sabertooth beat the crap out of him. Besides, Wolverine beat Mystique. She got stabbed remember?

I assure you, I've watched more boxing or MMA than you ever have. In fact, I'd even go so far as to say I've forgotten more about those sports than you've ever known. Not trying to be a dick, it's simply laughable to ask if I've watched fights lol. Look at Anderson Silva... Flashy moves winning the day to be one of the best of all time. Look at Pernell Whitaker in many of his fights.. Flashy showboating while dominating. Same with Roy Jones Jr. flashy showboating moves and dominate. Same with Ali... Look at Pettis of the cage kick on Henderson. Look at the Flying knee bar Ryo pulled on Silva. The flying armbars that have worked numerous times in MMA or Mundials. The superman punches... the spinning backfists.. Etc etc.. there are countless showings like these where they work. I named 3 boxers who were flashy and probably the best of all time in their prime weight class. Whitaker LW... RJJ SMW... Ali HW... You could even include Sugar Ray Leonard at WW. Flashy and showboating has worked on countless occasions while still being superior in virtually every way.

She got stabbed after dominating him H2H and while she wasn't even looking. It wasn't in the course of a fight. You can do better.

If this was true and he only won because of his healing factor and skeleton.. .He wouldn't have ever landed ANY blows and just tanked everything. As I've shown this couldn't be further from the truth. He landed blows on Sabertooth... Gambit and Weapon X... Yet couldn't land much of anything on mystique. Again you're forgetting that Sabertooth is above Cap in strength himself and healing factor. Wolverine beat him on more than one occasion. Wolverine hand the same claws and skeleton and couldn't beat Mystique. Let's not act like Wolverine hasn't beaten anybody. He's beat more impressive people than Cap or Bucky ever have.

Originally posted by 80sBaby
All those fights against Sabertooth, Agent Zero, Gambit, etc happened PRIOR to Logan losing his memories so any skill showings there don't count in his fight against Mystique. X1 takes place AFTER and it's clear he's just a hack & slash brawler.

Very true.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
I assure you, I've watched more boxing or MMA than you ever have. In fact, I'd even go so far as to say I've forgotten more about those sports than you've ever known. Not trying to be a dick, it's simply laughable to ask if I've watched fights lol. Look at Anderson Silva... Flashy moves winning the day to be one of the best of all time. Look at Pernell Whitaker in many of his fights.. Flashy showboating while dominating. Same with Roy Jones Jr. flashy showboating moves and dominate. Same with Ali... Look at Pettis of the cage kick on Henderson. Look at the Flying knee bar Ryo pulled on Silva. The flying armbars that have worked numerous times in MMA or Mundials. The superman punches... the spinning backfists.. Etc etc.. there are countless showings like these where they work. I named 3 boxers who were flashy and probably the best of all time in their prime weight class. Whitaker LW... RJJ SMW... Ali HW... You could even include Sugar Ray Leonard at WW. Flashy and showboating has worked on countless occasions while still being superior in virtually every way.

She got stabbed after dominating him H2H and while she wasn't even looking. It wasn't in the course of a fight. You can do better.

If this was true and he only won because of his healing factor and skeleton.. .He wouldn't have ever landed ANY blows and just tanked everything. As I've shown this couldn't be further from the truth. He landed blows on Sabertooth... Gambit and Weapon X... Yet couldn't land much of anything on mystique. Again you're forgetting that Sabertooth is above Cap in strength himself and healing factor. Wolverine beat him on more than one occasion. Wolverine hand the same claws and skeleton and couldn't beat Mystique. Let's not act like Wolverine hasn't beaten anybody. He's beat more impressive people than Cap or Bucky ever have.

Sorry to say this, but you are a dick. Claiming that you know more about fighting than I do (or anyone else for that matter) without any given proof is pretty much a jerk-like attitude and immediately lowers your credibility.

You gave examples of 3 boxers who had flash showmanship but not flashy technique. After all, they still threw the same type of punches that other boxers do. Jab, straight, cross, hooks and uppercuts. Unless you can give me examples of these boxers actually utilizing techniques that are far fancier than what other boxers use. Dancing around in the ring and mouthing off your opponent is fancy showmanship and not exactly fancy technique.

Anderson Silva utilizes mostly muay thai and bjj moves. He dances around a lot but at the end of the day his techniques are still pretty straight forward. You don't exactly see him moving like Boyka. Fact is, look at the most effective styles used in MMA: Muay Thai, Bjj, boxing, wrestling.... all these are practical and none flashy techniques. If your theory on "flashier =superior" is true then how come tkd, capoeira, kung-fu and extreme karate aren't dominating the sport?

As for Wolverine, Mystique is more skilled than him. No one's contesting this fact. You still haven't proven jack about Wolverine's fight skill though. Getting hits on someone isn't exactly proof of great fighting skill, his opponents weren't speedsters after all. Most of the opponents that WOlverine fought were brawlers like him. However when you see him go up against skilled opponents (Deathstrike, Mystique, Deadpool) he clearly struggles to catch up.

Originally posted by Robtard
Wolverine didn't beat Mystique in a fight, iirc.

She was disguised as Storm, Logan happened to 'see' through it due to his enhanced olfactory abilities and he surprise-stabbed her.

My bad. Haven't seen that movie in some time.

Originally posted by Mindset
Nope, she may look like a man, but deep down she's still a woman.

Man > woman.

That's science.
**** you.

Someone hates science

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
How does this make any sense? You compared Mystique to BW... and then said BW fought on even terms with Cap... yet losses to Bucky who cap beat... Odd logic No, he said Mystique may have slightly better skill than Bucky. If that were true, that would put her on Caps level. I compared her to BW, who, like Mystique, is inferior to both Cap and WS. I never said BW fought evenly with Cap. It's not odd, you just didn't read it correctly.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Negative... Wolverine was hundreds of years old by that point... fought in many wars.. some of which was close quarters combat. A had fought Sabertooth many a time... even beating him... somebody who again is above Cap. Wolverine as took out Agent Zero...and fought with Weapon X. He clearly was a superb fighter. Which has nothing to do with my point that he was SHOWN to be a shitty fighter in X1.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Sorry to say this, but you are a dick. Claiming that you know more about fighting than I do (or anyone else for that matter) without any given proof is pretty much a jerk-like attitude and immediately lowers your credibility.

You gave examples of 3 boxers who had flash showmanship but not flashy technique. After all, they still threw the same type of punches that other boxers do. Jab, straight, cross, hooks and uppercuts. Unless you can give me examples of these boxers actually utilizing techniques that are far fancier than what other boxers use. Dancing around in the ring and mouthing off your opponent is fancy showmanship and not exactly fancy technique.

Anderson Silva utilizes mostly muay thai and bjj moves. He dances around a lot but at the end of the day his techniques are still pretty straight forward. You don't exactly see him moving like Boyka. Fact is, look at the most effective styles used in MMA: Muay Thai, Bjj, boxing, wrestling.... all these are practical and none flashy techniques. If your theory on "flashier =superior" is true then how come tkd, capoeira, kung-fu and extreme karate aren't dominating the sport?

As for Wolverine, Mystique is more skilled than him. No one's contesting this fact. You still haven't proven jack about Wolverine's fight skill though. Getting hits on someone isn't exactly proof of great fighting skill, his opponents weren't speedsters after all. Most of the opponents that WOlverine fought were brawlers like him. However when you see him go up against skilled opponents (Deathstrike, Mystique, Deadpool) he clearly struggles to catch up.

I never once said Flashier is better... I'm disputing this notion that you can't be flashy while still being better. You seemed to think that Flashy doesn't work and straightforward gameplan always wins the day. Thus I pointed out numerous fighters and moves where flashy won the day and they were still superior skill wise as well. I was simply combating this theory that flashy doesn't work and isn't good compared to straight forward fighting. Listed flying armbars.. superman punches... flying knee bars... Etc that work and have worked. If you haven't seen those boxers fight than don't comment. They were flashy in an offensive way... throwing punches that weren't textbook so they could look cute and make the other guy look worse. You see this all the time with those three. Not only that but defensively.. Sticking out their head and daring people to hit them... while still being fast enough to get out of the way. Purposely standing in a corner and letting the other person try and hit them. There is no need for that, and is flashy and uncalled for.. yet they got away with it because of them still having superior skill. Roy would through 5 left hooks in a row.. not text book at all.. but he could get away with it. he would even lead with a left hook which is exactly what you never really wanna do... Guess what it worked. To illustrate

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nR3qbQeo8nY

Point is, Mystique got the better of somebody who has beaten better people than cap... Plain and simple. There is no getting around this point. You can say it was because of this or that.. but that the fact is... Mystique got the better of somebody who has beaten people superior to Cap or Bucky.

X1 Wolverine has never beaten anybody who was even slightly impressive.

Show proof he forgot all his fighting skill when he lost his memory. That logic is faulty at its core. That would imply he wouldn't know language as well since he forgot "everything" as you guys claim. Yet, right after he was shot in the head.. he was able to have a conversation with Gambit and talked perfectly fine. Thus, he clearly didn't lose all his memory on how to do things. What he needed to learn how to use a fork and spoon to? Please. You need to prove he forgot all his skills and all anxiously await that proof. Until then, he beat those people before X1 and thus they count.

X1 itself is proof, he showed no real skill beyond brawling.

Wolverine never had incredible fight skills, He had bone claws and razor sharp ones at that, later added adamentium and was nigh unkillable...hence getting his ass kicked over and over by people above his pay grade. All of the people he fought he always got his ass kicked till PIS came into play as well has him being very hard to kill or stop. Any maniac with invunerable and regeneration and razor sharp claws that can cut through anything will beat most people.

Wait, did he really just ask for proof that Logan lost his fighting skills when he lost his entire memory?

Originally posted by 80sBaby
Wait, did he really just ask for proof that Logan lost his fighting skills when he lost his entire memory?

He's got his clown shoes on I think.

Originally posted by 80sBaby
Wait, did he really just ask for proof that Logan lost his fighting skills when he lost his entire memory?

Apparently Logan showing almost no real skill in X1 isn't enough proof for some people.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
I never once said Flashier is better... I'm disputing this notion that you can't be flashy while still being better. You seemed to think that Flashy doesn't work and straightforward gameplan always wins the day. Thus I pointed out numerous fighters and moves where flashy won the day and they were still superior skill wise as well. I was simply combating this theory that flashy doesn't work and isn't good compared to straight forward fighting. Listed flying armbars.. superman punches... flying knee bars... Etc that work and have worked. If you haven't seen those boxers fight than don't comment. They were flashy in an offensive way... throwing punches that weren't textbook so they could look cute and make the other guy look worse. You see this all the time with those three. Not only that but defensively.. Sticking out their head and daring people to hit them... while still being fast enough to get out of the way. Purposely standing in a corner and letting the other person try and hit them. There is no need for that, and is flashy and uncalled for.. yet they got away with it because of them still having superior skill. Roy would through 5 left hooks in a row.. not text book at all.. but he could get away with it. he would even lead with a left hook which is exactly what you never really wanna do... Guess what it worked. To illustrate

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nR3qbQeo8nY

Point is, Mystique got the better of somebody who has beaten better people than cap... Plain and simple. There is no getting around this point. You can say it was because of this or that.. but that the fact is... Mystique got the better of somebody who has beaten people superior to Cap or Bucky.

I know who those boxers are, thank you very much. And you seem to still not understand my point. I never said textbook is better. I said practical is usually better. These boxers mix up their moves that make it not textbook, but at the end of the day they still deliver practical, none fancy punches... unless you can show me them using superman punches.

And I never said flashy techniques don't work. They do... sometimes. Just not as often as practical techniques. But we're veering away from the argument here. The main point I was trying to make was that you can't judge a person's fighting skill basing off how fancy their moves are. And I mentioned this because you were insisting that Mystique was a better fighter than Bucky due simply to how fancy her moves were.

Wolverine has beaten powerful and skilled opponents before but not by overwhelming them with superior skill. He defeated them by use of claws, healing and heart. So in this discussion where we're debating skill, Wolverine is very low on the ladder.

Originally posted by FrothByte

Wolverine has beaten powerful and skilled opponents before but not by overwhelming them with superior skill. He defeated them by use of claws, healing and heart. So in this discussion where we're debating skill, Wolverine is very low on the ladder.

Nuff said.

/thread

Originally posted by Silent Master
X1 itself is proof, he showed no real skill beyond brawling.

That isn't proof.. he fought the same away against Sabertooth as before. He always fights the same way. Point is, Wolverine has beaten people cap could only dream about beating. You can say he doesn't have this or that.. but he's beaten them... Period

Originally posted by 80sBaby
Wait, did he really just ask for proof that Logan lost his fighting skills when he lost his entire memory?

If he lost his all his memory clownshoes than how was he able to speak RIGHT after he got shot? According to you he lost everything. Yet, we know that isn't true as he was able to speak and just fine after losing all his memory according to you. Did you even watch the movie? Now explain that.

Originally posted by FrothByte
I know who those boxers are, thank you very much. And you seem to still not understand my point. I never said textbook is better. I said practical is usually better. These boxers mix up their moves that make it not textbook, but at the end of the day they still deliver practical, none fancy punches... unless you can show me them using superman punches.

And I never said flashy techniques don't work. They do... sometimes. Just not as often as practical techniques. But we're veering away from the argument here. The main point I was trying to make was that you can't judge a person's fighting skill basing off how fancy their moves are. And I mentioned this because you were insisting that Mystique was a better fighter than Bucky due simply to how fancy her moves were.

Wolverine has beaten powerful and skilled opponents before but not by overwhelming them with superior skill. He defeated them by use of claws, healing and heart. So in this discussion where we're debating skill, Wolverine is very low on the ladder.

Well then we aren't too far off on our discussion. As long as you agree that flashy can be better and can also mean you're superior. I never said Mystique was a better fighter, she very well could be. What I am saying is she showed superior skill than bucky ever did, which is how we got on this discussion.

Damn dude, you got a serious crush on Logan.

The thread isn't even about him.

Funny enough I don't even like Wolverine. He's alright. My point was to combat this notion that Bucky is more skilled than Mystique and that point is simply laughable at best. The rest is trying to fight clownshoes claiming Wolverine lost "all his memories" which I've also proven to be false.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Well then we aren't too far off on our discussion. As long as you agree that flashy can be better and can also mean you're superior. I never said Mystique was a better fighter, she very well could be. What I am saying is she showed superior skill than bucky ever did, which is how we got on this discussion.

Showed superior acrobatics skills yes. We're unsure of who has superior fighting skill. It's hard to judge Mystique's fighting skill when she hasn't fought anyone of decent skill.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Funny enough I don't even like Wolverine. He's alright. My point was to combat this notion that Bucky is more skilled than Mystique and that point is simply laughable at best. The rest is trying to fight clownshoes claiming Wolverine lost "all his memories" which I've also proven to be false.

I understand, I don't see the linar comparison flow though.

Bucky is highly trained and on super serum and been on mission for over 50 years.

His skill is way above Logan's, As far as the Logan losing his memories on how to fight, you right, that never happened. He has his same instincts and skill set through all the brain trauma.

I actually agree with KThanosi about that forgetting fighting memory bit. Fighting skill is mostly muscle memory, I don't think amnesia affects it.

So yeah, I don't think Wolverine lost his fighting skill. He just never really had much of it in the first place. He fights as crappy in X1 as he did in all the other movies.

Originally posted by FrothByte
I actually agree with KThanosi about that forgetting fighting memory bit. Fighting skill is mostly muscle memory, I don't think amnesia affects it.

So yeah, I don't think Wolverine lost his fighting skill. He just never really had much of it in the first place. He fights as crappy in X1 as he did in all the other movies.

His X1 fights were pretty aweful, but thats going off the first movie. There has been like 6 movies with him in it, all with better showings. I think its only fair to use amalgam and off later showings.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
If he lost his all his memory clownshoes than how was he able to speak RIGHT after he got shot? According to you he lost everything. Yet, we know that isn't true as he was able to speak and just fine after losing all his memory according to you. Did you even watch the movie? Now explain that.

So you don't understand how amnesia actually works then? Ok.

But the onus is on you since, after losing his memories, he didn't have any actual skill showings so your move...

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
His X1 fights were pretty aweful, but thats going off the first movie. There has been like 6 movies with him in it, all with better showings. I think its only fair to use amalgam and off later showings.

His fights in X2 and 3 weren't any better.

Originally posted by 80sBaby
All those fights against Sabertooth, Agent Zero, Gambit, etc happened PRIOR to Logan losing his memories so any skill showings there don't count in his fight against Mystique. X1 takes place AFTER and it's clear he's just a hack & slash brawler.

We use more current versions, so due to continuity the most current version has all his memories back

Originally posted by maxivitopowe
We use more current versions, so due to continuity the most current version has all his memories back

Yeah but this would only be the case if it was Wolverine who was in this fight. But we're not arguing for Wolverine, we're arguing for Mystique. And the Wolverine she fought was the Wolverine in X1 who (as has been pointed out to me) had the crappiest fighting skills among all his movie incarnations (not that the rest were that much better of course).

Originally posted by 80sBaby
So you don't understand how amnesia actually works then? Ok.

But the onus is on you since, after losing his memories, he didn't have any actual skill showings so your move...

So you don't know much about anything then? YOU claimed that he lost ALL his memories. Of which you included fighting skill. Thus is onus is SQUARELY on you to prove such a claim. I proved beyond a shadow of a doubt he didn't lose all his memories... He could talk just fine.. walk just fine which prove all his memories weren't lost. Further, part of who Wolverine is, is part animal and thus instinctual. The movies go out of their way to slap us in the face with his point that seems to allude you. Being part animal means much of your hunting and fighting skills come natural, which further flies in the face of him forgetting everything he knows. Now, go ahead and prove your claim that he lost all his memories including fighting skill

His main point is that X1 Wolverine was a brawler that relied heavily on his powers, which is true.

Oh yeah.

Damn this is my own thread and I forgot the participants lol

Originally posted by Silent Master
His main point is that X1 Wolverine was a brawler that relied heavily on his powers, which is true.

Exactly. Kurupt needs to provide proof that Logan actually had fight skills in X1, which he/she hasn't.

Originally posted by 80sBaby
Exactly. Kurupt needs to provide proof that Logan actually had fight skills in X1, which he/she hasn't.

Just say you have no idea who the onus lies on in an argument and we can work you through it. YOU MADE THE CLAIM he lost all his memories including fighting skills. Which means YOU need to prove said claim. I don't need to prove a negative. IF you have no clue how to argue, just say so, and we can move on.

None of that changes his point, IE X1 Wolverine was a brawler that relied heavily on his powers.

Anybody might look like a brawler against mystique with her flashy moves and skill. Nothing wrong with that.

That wasn't the only fight in X1 where Wolverine looked like a brawler.

Yeah, just check out his cage fight.

yeah and he had fights before that where he beat people who were skilled.. proving he can do so no matter brawling or not. That doesn't take away from Mystique tooling him... it only reinforces the point on how good mystique is. You acting like Wolverine is nothing but a brawler doesn't help your case. He still beats people being a brawler... yet was getting schooled by mystique as whatever you'd want to call him.

Unless Wolverine gets knocked out, he's going to win pretty much any fight eventually; that doesn't say much about his skills, but rather his regen and adamantium skeleton.

I don't see Mystique tooling a skilled fighter like she did Wolverine.

So everyone agrees that X1 Wolverine is a brawler whose wins came more from his powers, rather than skill?

Originally posted by Silent Master
So everyone agrees that X1 Wolverine is a brawler whose wins came more from his powers, rather than skill? Yes.

Every single one of us agrees.

Originally posted by Silent Master
So everyone agrees that X1 Wolverine is a brawler whose wins came more from his powers, rather than skill?

Incorrect, if this was true he wouldn't land a blow or be able to dodge a blow. All of which he's shown to be able to do in x1 or any x-men movie. So say he has no skill is simply laughable. Even if this was true (which it's not), it doesn't matter because he still lands blows and beats people. Something he wasn't able to do with Mystique and was able to do with others.

Why don't you just post the clips from X1 where Wolverine shows more than just basic brawling skills?

Originally posted by Silent Master
So everyone agrees that X1 Wolverine is a brawler whose wins came more from his powers, rather than skill?

For once we agree on something.

No one is saying Wolverine has no skills whatsoever. Just that he doesnt have good skills, definitely nothing above a good brawler.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Why don't you just post the clips from X1 where Wolverine shows more than just basic brawling skills?

Why do you think Wolverine only skill showings were in x1?

X1 skill showings are the only ones that matter, as that is version that Mystique fought.

Ummm no it doesn't... being that he's shown fighting through various wars throughout history and killing people. He's shown in Origins to fight numerous people including Sabertooth.. Gambit... Weapon X... Agent Zero etc etc... Surely you don't believe his only skill showings were in X1

He showed none of that skill in X1 and it's the X1 version that Mystique fought.

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WS is definitely stronger and more durable, but Mystique seems faster and more agile. She might be able to win if she can KO him before he rips her face off with his robo-arm. I mean her hits were hurting the far more durable Wolverine, so I could see her downing WS with a few face hits....if she can avoid his arm. I'd edge it to WS, but it's by no means a curbstomp.

IIRC, didn't Mystique take down a room full of people in DOFP?

Every person mentioned in this thread can take down a room full of people.

It was a yes/no question, not a comparative one.

I wasn't answering your question.

No kidding

Originally posted by Silent Master
He showed none of that skill in X1 and it's the X1 version that Mystique fought.

Who cares if that the version she fought... he had prior fights BEFORE x1 which still count towards his skill level and experience leading up to x1

Not if he "forgot" his training which is what people are saying

Originally posted by Lestov16
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Swchnx7GPVk

WS is definitely stronger and more durable, but Mystique seems faster and more agile. She might be able to win if she can KO him before he rips her face off with his robo-arm. I mean her hits were hurting the far more durable Wolverine, so I could see her downing WS with a few face hits....if she can avoid his arm. I'd edge it to WS, but it's by no means a curbstomp.

IIRC, didn't Mystique take down a room full of people in DOFP?

If Cap couldn't KO Bucky with that flying knee or that suplex, I'm not sure what hope Mystique has.

And, yes, she did take down a room full of soldier fodder.

Originally posted by juggerman
Not if he "forgot" his training which is what people are saying

Exactly.

Can you "forget" muscle memory?

Originally posted by Lestov16
Can you "forget" muscle memory?

"Muscle memory has been used synonymously with motor learning, which is a form of procedural memory that involves consolidating a specific motor task into memory through repetition."


So if his mind is wiped, he's forgetting everything? That would include learning repetitive tasks.


So how can he walk? That means he would have to relearn everything including talking, walking, etc.


Seems to reason that he is losing very specific types of memories. That's very unscientific as this type of technology is retardedly far more advanced than anything else seen in the movie.



Does that answer your question?


Basically, memories are selectively removed from Bucky. He should still retain his training because, hey, this is sci-fi bullshit and we can pick and choose which memories to delete!

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Who cares if that the version she fought... he had prior fights BEFORE x1 which still count towards his skill level and experience leading up to x1

This thread is about Mystique, thus the only thing that matters is the people she beat and what skill was shown during her fights and Wolverine displayed very little skill during their fight.

They really shit all over wolverines fighting skills in the films

Originally posted by dadudemon
"Muscle memory has been used synonymously with motor learning, which is a form of procedural memory that involves consolidating a specific motor task into memory through repetition."


So if his mind is wiped, he's forgetting everything? That would include learning repetitive tasks.


So how can he walk? That means he would have to relearn everything including talking, walking, etc.


Seems to reason that he is losing very specific types of memories. That's very unscientific as this type of technology is retardedly far more advanced than anything else seen in the movie.



Does that answer your question?


Basically, memories are selectively removed from Bucky. He should still retain his training because, hey, this is sci-fi bullshit and we can pick and choose which memories to delete!

Um....you know I'm talking about Logan, not WS, right? Even though you did technically answer my question

It's already established that people who claim he lost all his fighting skills and memories have ZERO proof to back up this claim. We see Logan walking and talking without any issue.. clearly meaning he didn't lose all his memories. So to claim he lost all his fighting memories requires proof, which as of yet, has not been provided (and can't be provided as we all know). So, let's just forget about this whole he lost all his fighting memory bs.

Originally posted by Silent Master
This thread is about Mystique, thus the only thing that matters is the people she beat and what skill was shown during her fights and Wolverine displayed very little skill during their fight.

Wrong again, you questioned his skills, thus when examining his skills we are not required to just go by one movie. We can gather all the skills he's shown prior to fighting mystique. All that he learned and shown prior to fighting her makes up his skill level. We don't just go by his skill level in the movie. He has learned various skills throughout his life up until that point. that's like saying when Oscar De La Hoya fought Whitaker... We only look at how he did in that fight in evaluating how much skill he had. That couldn't be further form the truth. We evaluate how much skill his has from his prior fights and how much he's shown and grown up to fighting Pea. You don't judge a boxers or MMA fighter skills based on one fight when they have many. that's beyond idiotic.

Again, This thread is about Mystique, thus the only thing that matters is the people she beat and what skill was shown during her fights and Wolverine displayed very little skill during their fight.

Despite what you're saying. The only time Logan fights Mystique, he showcases none of the skill he showed in Origins. Absolutely none. So either he just said "I don't feel like winning this fight", or he lost a few steps. Either way, if he fought like he did against Creed or Deadpool in Origins, Mystique would have died.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Again, This thread is about Mystique, thus the only thing that matters is the people she beat and what skill was shown during her fights and Wolverine displayed very little skill during their fight.

Wrong again, Do you judge a boxer or MMA based on one fight or his entire career? This isn't hard and I don't know why you're being intentionally obtuse. I get that is your usual routine, but it doesn't always need to be. Wolverine had shown skills before mystique in his fights.. thus he still had those same skills. He just couldn't showcase them as effectively because mystique is that much more skilled. To try and pigeon hole the argument to just the skills wolverine showed in x1 is funny Silent. Good try though.

Originally posted by KingD19
Despite what you're saying. The only time Logan fights Mystique, he showcases none of the skill he showed in Origins. Absolutely none. So either he just said "I don't feel like winning this fight", or he lost a few steps. Either way, if he fought like he did against Creed or Deadpool in Origins, Mystique would have died.

Which happened before he fought mystique.. so he logically still has those skills he had shown prior to fighting her. So either he lost a step (not logical considering his powers) or her skill level made his skills look inferior to prior showings.

I always assumed Mystique had some kind of superhuman strength/durability, considering she should have smashed her hand/feet on Logan's metal skeleton like the cage fighter at the beginning did.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Which happened before he fought mystique.. so he logically still has those skills he had shown prior to fighting her. So either he lost a step (not logical considering his powers) or her skill level made his skills look inferior to prior showings.

I know when it happened which is why I mentioned it. But you're saying you think Mystique is so incredibly up there and skilled that she can outperform the Creed that was showcased in Origins? Because as soon as he got his Adamantium, Logan put the hurt on Victor. A guy with similar powers, but greater speed, agility, and strength, if offset slightly by lesser healing(according to Stryker anyway).

Do you honestly think Mystique would have stood a chance against Origins Victor?

X1 Logan showed very little skill, no amount of excuses will change that fact....at best you can call it jobbing based on his other movies, either way Mystique out-skilling that version of Wolverine isn't nearly as impressive as some are trying to make it.

You didn't answer my question.. Do you judge a boxer or mma fighter skills based on one fight or multiple fights ? Simple question

Originally posted by KingD19
I know when it happened which is why I mentioned it. But you're saying you think Mystique is so incredibly up there and skilled that she can outperform the Creed that was showcased in Origins? Because as soon as he got his Adamantium, Logan put the hurt on Victor. A guy with similar powers, but greater speed, agility, and strength, if offset slightly by lesser healing(according to Stryker anyway).

Do you honestly think Mystique would have stood a chance against Origins Victor?

Of course I do, because from the movies... Wolverine beat Creed 2 times and was getting the better of the fight. Yet, couldn't do the same with Mystique. So, yes mystique would have a chance to beat him using her superior skill which was > than wolverine's who's was > than creed's

Wow.

Mystique fought a Wolverine that showed very little skill, in a movie where Wolverine was shown at best to be a decently skilled brawler. The end.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Of course I do, because from the movies... Wolverine beat Creed 2 times and was getting the better of the fight. Yet, couldn't do the same with Mystique. So, yes mystique would have a chance to beat him using her superior skill which was > than wolverine's who's was > than creed's


It should also be pointed out that Logan had Adamantium claws to beat Sabretooth with. As well as a similar physicality. Mystique is A)Physically below them imo, and B)Without Adamantium Claws.

This means Mystique would have to KO Victor. Lol at that happening.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
You didn't answer my question.. Do you judge a boxer or mma fighter skills based on one fight or multiple fights ? Simple question

I judge him depending on the period of his life/career that he is in.

For example, 20 yr old Tyson was a completely different animal than 30 yr old Tyson.

Originally posted by FrothByte
I judge him depending on the period of his life/career that he is in.

For example, 20 yr old Tyson was a completely different animal than 30 yr old Tyson.

Obviously but all his fights are factored in is the point, and one you agree with. Have different circumstances like age and eroding of skills are factored in when appropriate, but doesn't change the fact that all fights are considered. Same thing here, only Wolverine skills are far far less susceptible to age and eroding being that his powerset is.

Originally posted by KingD19
It should also be pointed out that Logan had Adamantium claws to beat Sabretooth with. As well as a similar physicality. Mystique is A)Physically below them imo, and B)Without Adamantium Claws.

This means Mystique would have to KO Victor. Lol at that happening.

It should be pointed out that Wolverine had the same claws and physicality when he fought mystique as he did Creed. So again, Wolverine beat Creed twice with the aforementioned factors, he later fought mystique with the same factors and couldn't do a thing to her. Why is this difficult to grasp? You seem to think Sabertooth can't be KO'd, which couldn't be further from the truth. Wolverine, as you pointed out has a better healing factor than Creed and has been KO'd numerous times in the movies. Thus, so can Creed.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Mystique fought a Wolverine that showed very little skill, in a movie where Wolverine was shown at best to be a decently skilled brawler. The end.

Failed to answer a basic question for the second time. Concession accepted.

If you want to prove that Mystique fought a highly skilled Wolverine, by all means post the clips.

What are these nonexistent clips you speak of?

He seems sure that X1 Wolverine was some highly skilled bada$$, surely there must be some clips to support this; I mean he wouldn't be letting his biases get the better of him, would he?

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Obviously but all his fights are factored in is the point, and one you agree with. Have different circumstances like age and eroding of skills are factored in when appropriate, but doesn't change the fact that all fights are considered. Same thing here, only Wolverine skills are far far less susceptible to age and eroding being that his powerset is.

Yeah but the problem is, Wolverine isn't the one in this fight. It's not his skill that we're trying to prove directly. We're trying to debate Mystique's skill, and the Wolverine that she fought was the Wolverine in X1 who had crappy skill. Not any other incarnation of the character. Fact still stands that Wolverine showed no decent fighting skill in X1... so Mystique beating him up isn't exactly such a great feat.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Yeah but the problem is, Wolverine isn't the one in this fight. It's not his skill that we're trying to prove directly. We're trying to debate Mystique's skill, and the Wolverine that she fought was the Wolverine in X1 who had crappy skill. Not any other incarnation of the character. Fact still stands that Wolverine showed no decent fighting skill in X1... so Mystique beating him up isn't exactly such a great feat.

You act like first class wolverine is different than Wolverine from x1 and they are from separate universes. That is true, thus I'm not understanding you still being obtuse. Question, does Wolverine First class and numerous fights and wars he was in throughout his long life happen BEFORE x1? Does anything he learned before x1 carry over into the skills he would have by the time of x1?

Originally posted by Silent Master
If you want to prove that Mystique fought a highly skilled Wolverine, by all means post the clips.

Did you watch first class? You should watch it sometime and learn some things.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Did you watch first class? You should watch it sometime and learn some things.

Again, this is about the fight in X1.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
You act like first class wolverine is different than Wolverine from x1 and they are from separate universes. That is true, thus I'm not understanding you still being obtuse. Question, does Wolverine First class and numerous fights and wars he was in throughout his long life happen BEFORE x1? Does anything he learned before x1 carry over into the skills he would have by the time of x1?

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Did you watch first class? You should watch it sometime and learn some things.

Wrong movie

I meant Origins not First Class

Originally posted by Silent Master
Again, this is about the fight in X1. No it's not. Wolverine had many fights he grew and learned from BEFORE X1 which would've contributed to his skill by the time of X1

You're the only one that seems to think that. Because the Wolverine from X1 would have got wrecked by Origins Creed even with his Adamantium.

Do you guys believe Origins Wolverine and X1 wolverine weren't from the same universe? I mean this is getting ridiculous. It's the same wolverine in continuity.

Doesn't mean he had the same fighting style

HUH? The same fighting style.. according to others he's always just been a brawler.. so that defies what they are saying. Further, and the point is, it's the SAME wolverine and is in continuity. He beat Gambit.. Creed x 2... fought the blob in boxing and fought weapon x among others. Him beating who he did counts to Wolverine's skills period. He had the same skills in x1 if not more being that it took place years later.

So you're saying you believe Mystique could beat Blob, fight Deadpool, take down Creed and Gambit?

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
No it's not. Wolverine had many fights he grew and learned from BEFORE X1 which would've contributed to his skill by the time of X1

X1 Wolverine showed none of that skill during the Mystique fight.

Originally posted by Silent Master
X1 Wolverine showed none of that skill during the Mystique fight.

Silent you have no clue about real life fighting and that is why you struggle with make believe fights. Fighters can make others looked unskilled because they are that much better... circumstances... or game plan. For example, you would never know Anderson Silva is a great striker if you just watched his first fight with Chael would you? Granted, you have no clue what I'm talking about I'm sure. However, the point is if we discussing if Anderson is a good striker... you would be putting to one fight and going see he's not.. and I'd be point to 20 fights where he shows it. The reason he couldn't against Chael was because he was taken down constantly and it wasn't a standing fight.

Another example would be Marquez vs. Mayweather... Marquez looked pretty unskilled against mayweather but that was because Money May was that much better. However, when you watch Marquez against Pac, Casamayor, MAB or Diaz or most any of his other fight he's clearly very skilled. Does any of this make sense. I know you don't know about real fights nor do you understand how to debate but this is how it can go. Now, go ahead and prove that Wolverine from X1 had no memories of his prior fights and his skills were gone by the time of that fight. Simple.