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Fight takes place on Dathomiir.

The **** is this? Talzin dies within seconds

Talzin SLAUGHTERHOUSE

She has an environmental advantage, saber feats, and more powerful spells overall than a weakling who depends on massive amounts of prep and who hugged a lightsaber and died.

Vitiate fought a darkside demi-god on its home turf for months. Dathomir isn't going to give Talzin the edge.

Vitiate takes her with perhaps some effort.

Vitiate will win this battle.

Would people say Talzin was the third most powerful Force User at the time, after Yoda and Sidious?

Originally posted by Nephthys
Vitiate fought a darkside demi-god on its home turf for months. Dathomir isn't going to give Talzin the edge.

Vitiate takes her with perhaps some effort.

Dark Side Demi-God? You mean Sel Makor? Lmao, Vitiate didn't exactly fight him, he was trapped in a tomb and getting possessed lol.

I disagree, Talzin is the ultimate Sorcerer in this mythos.

Originally posted by Astor Ebligis
Would people say Talzin was the third most powerful Force User at the time, after Yoda and Sidious?

I can't think of any others that are stronger than her, yeah.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Dark Side Demi-God? You mean Sel Makor? Lmao, Vitiate didn't exactly fight him, he was trapped in a tomb and getting possessed lol.

I disagree, Talzin is the ultimate Sorcerer in this mythos. Vitiate shall be dethroned with Son of Dathomiir.

Whoops, I meant to Edit, not Quote!

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Dark Side Demi-God? You mean Sel Makor? Lmao, Vitiate didn't exactly fight him, he was trapped in a tomb and getting possessed lol.


It was a battle of wills, yes. He didn't "lose" the war until he lowered his defenses to allow the wrath to strike him down.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
I can't think of any others that are stronger than her, yeah.

Maybe Master Fay?

Nah, Talzin's not even within her reach.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Dark Side Demi-God? You mean Sel Makor? Lmao, Vitiate didn't exactly fight him, he was trapped in a tomb and getting possessed lol.

No, he was fighting off getting possessed. Sel Makor could only possess him when Vitiate lowered his defenses.

Talzin's skirmish with Windu greatly impressed me.

I never imagined she had blade abilities until that clip. She may very well be not too distant from being Yoda tier.

I wasn't hugely impressed by that, it was a few seconds of skirmish between Talzin and Mace. It was really no longer than Ventress's little bout with him, I doubt it means much.

Her powers with Sorcery are really awesome though, that's why I put her up against Vitiate--Who is widely accepted as the biggest fish in the mythos when it comes to sorcery.

Well I mean, Vitiate doesn't really use that much sorcery in combat...

Originally posted by NewGuy01
I can't think of any others that are stronger than her, yeah.
The Mortis Family. shifty

Originally posted by carthage
Talzin's skirmish with Windu greatly impressed me.

I never imagined she had blade abilities until that clip. She may very well be not too distant from being Yoda tier.

We don't even see her duel with Windu...

He's high again.

Originally posted by ares834
We don't even see her duel with Windu...

We do, briefly.

This could actually turn out to be a far closer battle than people are giving it credit for. I mean with her ritual she was going to be well above any Jedi or Sith in history. Her involvement makes Sidious himself take to the field...she mind ****s Dooku. She's looking to be close to Vitiate level.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
I mean with Vitiate's ritual he was going to be well above any being in history.

I agree.

Her rituals and magics have went from exponentially increasing the power and strength of Savage, to raising armies of dead Nightsisters, to creating a Voodoo Doll to torture Dooku from across the galaxy.

She has also shown excellent precognitive visions when using crystal balls and more of the like.

During the droid invasion of Dathomir, we see her encasing herself in a ball of protection that deflects hordes of blasterfire, then she unleashes lightning that practically disintegrates the battledroids she hits. (Even Mace is forced to dodge her lightning blasts when they fight)

Then, she showed the ability to create enchanted matter from magic, such as swords or other items that have the ability to deflect lightsaber strikes.

She also on several occasions has portrayed the ability to become intangible mist and can solidify or dissipate at will.

Now, in Son of Dathomir, she portrays herself with lightning that can deflect Palpatine's, and has both shown that she can become a spirit and possess Darth Tyranus.

She speaks of the mechanics of her abilities in the Book of Sith, mentioning with the power of the Daughter (Winged Goddess) she can create green mist to form any object, (Perhaps including clone-like manifestations similar to Vitiate?) and that she can use the power of the Son (Fanged God) to increase physical capabilities, precision of the senses, and use powers like Blood Trail.

And as Stark mentioned, not only was the Count afraid of her, but Sidious took her seriously enough to join the battle in person when she made her appearance.

I wouldn't be surprised if she had similar powers to Gethzerion as well, such as Force Storms and highly advanced Telekinesis. This is just speculation, though. I'm also sure she has some sort of power with illusions that we have yet to see.

Still, she's one of the best Sorceresses in the mythos, this is definitely not going to be a simple fight.

Son of Dathomir is out? How do you know she faces Sidious?

http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20140515215647/starwars/images/thumb/f/fd/SWDarthMaulDathomir-4.jpg/250px-SWDarthMaulDathomir-4.jpg
Oh shit, this looks awesome.
She takes Vitiate, excellent analysis Sas.

I still doubt that Talzin would take a majority against Vitiate.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Son of Dathomir is out? How do you know she faces Sidious?

http://www.starwarsforums.org/t7148-darth-maul-son-of-dathomir-official-thread#80885

I can't see it.
Banned bro.
Make a topic here.

I unbanned you. You can see the topic now.

Forum looks as shitty as I remember it.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Forum looks as shitty as I remember it.

Funny, considering you spent two years designing it.

I wasn't referring to that.
I was referring to the update banner still not updated.
An ugly ass Forum Viewing section.
And messy sections with numerous topics not in the right place.

Duh, Update Banner isn't updated because there's not much to update.

Yeah, I don't really understand why Sith insists on the Viewing section.

I feel it was made for me.
We should have made one for Neph though.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20140515215647/starwars/images/thumb/f/fd/SWDarthMaulDathomir-4.jpg/250px-SWDarthMaulDathomir-4.jpg
Oh shit, this looks awesome.
She takes Vitiate, excellent analysis Sas.

Dude, that's just the cover image. It's non-canonical. Wait until we see the actual fight.


In any case, Vitiate mindf*cks her. His mental powers can enslave armies. Thats > possessing Dooku any day of the week. Or he'll ragdoll her with TK, which I don't believe she has any showings with. Or he'll overwhelm her with a Force Storm. His mastery of sorcery is likely superior to hers as well tbh.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Dude, that's just the cover image. It's non-canonical. Wait until we see the actual fight.


In any case, Vitiate mindf*cks her. His mental powers can enslave armies. Thats > possessing Dooku any day of the week. Or he'll ragdoll her with TK, which I don't believe she has any showings with. Or he'll overwhelm her with a Force Storm. His mastery of sorcery is likely superior to hers as well tbh.

Vitiate isn't mind****ing anyone here. I don't even know if he could mind**** Dooku to the point of possessing him. But yes she should still lose the force and all out. (Sabers goes to Talzin though)

Originally posted by NewGuy01
I agree.

Her rituals and magics have went from exponentially increasing the power and strength of Savage, to raising armies of dead Nightsisters, to creating a Voodoo Doll to torture Dooku from across the galaxy.

She has also shown excellent precognitive visions when using crystal balls and more of the like.

During the droid invasion of Dathomir, we see her encasing herself in a ball of protection that deflects hordes of blasterfire, then she unleashes lightning that practically disintegrates the battledroids she hits. (Even Mace is forced to dodge her lightning blasts when they fight)

Then, she showed the ability to create enchanted matter from magic, such as swords or other items that have the ability to deflect lightsaber strikes.

She also on several occasions has portrayed the ability to become intangible mist and can solidify or dissipate at will.

Now, in Son of Dathomir, she portrays herself with lightning that can deflect Palpatine's, and has both shown that she can become a spirit and possess Darth Tyranus.

She speaks of the mechanics of her abilities in the Book of Sith, mentioning with the power of the Daughter (Winged Goddess) she can create green mist to form any object, (Perhaps including clone-like manifestations similar to Vitiate?) and that she can use the power of the Son (Fanged God) to increase physical capabilities, precision of the senses, and use powers like Blood Trail.

And as Stark mentioned, not only was the Count afraid of her, but Sidious took her seriously enough to join the battle in person when she made her appearance.

I wouldn't be surprised if she had similar powers to Gethzerion as well, such as Force Storms and highly advanced Telekinesis. This is just speculation, though. I'm also sure she has some sort of power with illusions that we have yet to see.

Still, she's one of the best Sorceresses in the mythos, this is definitely not going to be a simple fight.

Not to mention creating Darth Vindicaa who is>> Count Dooku excellent

You know I didn't think TCWs writers would be cool enough to actually allow Talzin to be wankable to this degree.

I'll say Vitiate as of now, but that may be subject to change once Son of Dathomir is released.

Se5DuhNdWN0


I think I'll go with Talzin.

Vitiate's powers are no match for her magicks.

Anyone?

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
http://creator.keepcalmandcarryon.com/v/ufyYthCG

What, no.

Neph picks fights with me.

Vitiate gets disintegrated by her lightning

Originally posted by 66_SIDIOUS
i reported you for baiting


Go for it.

I watched the entire video. I saw nothing that will challenge Vitiate.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I watched the entire video. I saw nothing that will challenge Vitiate.


Are you picking a fight with me?

Also, would you say Vitiate stomps?

I'm not sure. We've really seen little combat-relevant from her.

And we've seen no indication he can break through her force shield when she just absorbed tons of blaster bolts from armies of droids. She can likely just walk up to him and impale him like HoT did, while laughing as his lightning ineffectively bounces off her shield.

Being taken as a threat by Sidious dominating one of the most powerful Sith lords >>> mentally dominating tons of mooks (who already feared and were in awe of you)

"Tons" of blasterfire? It was a few shots at most. I counted 4. Hardly noticeable to Vitiate. His lightning is infinitely greater than that. It would tear through her shield, if he allowed her to summon it at all considering the time it takes to create it.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I'm not sure. We've really seen little combat-relevant from her.


Just very little TK feats.

She has protection bubble, potent lightning (a mere strand blasted a hole through metal when she attempted to attack Windu and destroyed droids), instant teleportation, ability to use her magic to disintegrate objects and recreate them, and she can hold her own against Mace in combat. In fact, she momentarily forced Windu on the defensive despite his offensive style.

She's more of a combatant than Vitiate.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Just very little TK feats.

She has protection bubble, potent lightning (a mere strand blasted a hole through metal when she attempted to attack Windu and destroyed droids), instant teleportation, ability to use her magic to disintegrate objects and recreate them, and she can hold her own against Mace in combat. In fact, she momentarily forced Windu on the defensive despite his offensive style.

She's more of a combatant than Vitiate.

So whats to stop him from exploding her giant head with a wave?

Vitiates defenses are superior. Blasted a hole through metal? I can't see that. She blasts the ground, then when we see that same area a few seconds later the ground isn't damaged at all. The objects thing might be useful is shes offering Vitiate a drink, maybe. Fightning Windu for a while hardly means anything. Can Ventress, Grievous and Bulq challenge Vitiate as well in your world?

Hardly.

Originally posted by Nephthys
So whats to stop him from exploding her giant head with a wave?


Well, that would suggest a stomp. But to answer your question, her magicks.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Vitiates defenses are superior.


Eh, IDK.



Originally posted by Nephthys
Blasted a hole through metal? I can't see that.


Take a look again. It makes no explosive impact or sound, so I'm assuming her lightning just disintegrates on contact.


Originally posted by Nephthys
The objects thing might be useful is shes offering Vitiate a drink, maybe.


Why can't she disintegrate him with her green mist? She did to a huge wall.


Originally posted by Nephthys
Fightning Windu for a while hardly means anything. Can Ventress, Grievous and Bulq challenge Vitiate as well in your world?


Well no, they lack the power to contend. You said Vitiate wouldn't stomp her. I'm assuming you meant power-wise since he has no saber feats to compete.

Her fight with Windu suggests she matches him in speed. Plus she matched him in strength in a blade lock, so she could probably handle Vitiate's lightning with her magic staff.

How do you see it playing out?

Never mind, you said you're not sure if he stomps her.

Anyone else?

Damn, I'm bored.

Hurry up, Neph.

You said nevermind.

Originally posted by Nephthys
You said nevermind.


So do you think it's a stomp?

Answer the question, Neph.

Do you think he explodes her big head?

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Well, that would suggest a stomp. But to answer your question, her magicks.

How so?

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Eh, IDK.

He tanked his own lightning hitting him with no damage at all. Considering Nyriss' much less powerful lightning turned armored people into charred husks, I'd say hers is more powerful than your average blaster bolt. So Vitiates would be vastly more powerful.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Take a look again. It makes no explosive impact or sound, so I'm assuming her lightning just disintegrates on contact.

That's a pretty damn big and incorrect assumption. You should look again. When Windu confronts her and ignites his saber, the ground under his feet is the same that Talzin was just blasting. No damage.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Why can't she disintegrate him with her green mist? She did to a huge wall.

Why can't she disintegrate Mace Windu with her green mist? She did to a huge wall.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Well no, they lack the power to contend. You said Vitiate wouldn't stomp her. I'm assuming you meant power-wise since he has no saber feats to compete.

Her fight with Windu suggests she matches him in speed. Plus she matched him in strength in a blade lock, so she could probably handle Vitiate's lightning with her magic staff.

How do you see it playing out?

I said I wasn't sure if he would. She seems to be portrayed as a serious powerhouse, but really all she's done is beat some droids. She had to flee from Grievous for gods sakes. She's lacking in real showings imo. As of now though she's definitely not looking as good as some people seem to be hyping her as.

Plenty of people have fought Windu, that doesn't make them his equals. Speed and Strength doesn't matter against Vitiate. And lol @ blocking his lightning.

I don't know. Her power is too nebulous and esoteric. Without better TK feats though she won't do too well.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Why can't she disintegrate Mace Windu with her green mist? She did to a huge wall.
PIS.

I doubt thats the real reason.

Not really. They couldn't kill Mace since he is in ROTS.

She's only ever done it to inanimate objects she had access to before hand. It could easily be a prepared enchantment or something similar.

Originally posted by Nephthys
It could easily be a prepared
Like Vitiate's mind domination?

Though, we should see more of Talzin in the upcoming two comics for Son of Dathomir.
Hopefully they will clear up some of her magic stuff.

He didn't need to prepare to use it on Revan.

Yes he did. Revan states if they are forced to face the Guard, Vitiate has time to prepare.
And guess what? Revan and Friends go into combat against them thanks to Yarri.

It was a matter of seconds between Revan being attacked and him assaulting Vitiate. Also Vitiate used tk before he used his telepathy.

Originally posted by Nephthys
How so?


Protection bubble?

TBH, I don't think Sidious would worry about her to the extent that he did if she can be so easily dismissed with TK.



Originally posted by Nephthys
He tanked his own lightning hitting him with no damage at all. Considering Nyriss' much less powerful lightning turned armored people into charred husks, I'd say hers is more powerful than your average blaster bolt. So Vitiates would be vastly more powerful.


He was put on his ass by it. When the Exile was put on her ass, you didn't consider that as tanking Nyriss' lightning.

Can you really compare that? She wasn't hit by blasters. Her bubble was impenetrable to them. Don't know how much energy she can tank, but Sidious didn't have much faith in destroying her via a planetary bombardment, though that could be because of her ability to teleport.


Originally posted by Nephthys
That's a pretty damn big and incorrect assumption. You should look again. When Windu confronts her and ignites his saber, the ground under his feet is the same that Talzin was just blasting. No damage.


What about that hole in the metal ritual structure?



Originally posted by Nephthys
Why can't she disintegrate Mace Windu with her green mist? She did to a huge wall.


She wasn't on Dathomir, and Windu is exceptionally fast and can dodge. He doesn't just stand there in combat as Vitiate does.



Originally posted by Nephthys
She had to flee from Grievous for gods sakes.


I believe she wanted Sidious to believe her to be dead. She fought someone far superior to Grievous, so her fleeing from him is irrelevant, don't you think?


Originally posted by Nephthys
Plenty of people have fought Windu, that doesn't make them his equals. Speed and Strength doesn't matter against Vitiate. And lol @ blocking his lightning.


I said match. To momentarily force a very aggressive offensive fighter on the defensive, says quite a bit, especially when it's Mace.

Yeah, she should be capable of handling and pushing through his lightning, considering her strength.


Originally posted by Nephthys
I don't know. Her power is too nebulous and esoteric. Without better TK feats though she won't do too well.


True.

However, a lot of her powers so far are very much combat-oriented.

Remember your arguments against her, because they will be used against you in the future.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Remember your arguments against her, because they will be used against you in the future.

I'm not going to waste my time if that's your attitude. Go shove it.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I'm not going to waste my time if that's your attitude. Go shove it.


You have serious problems Neph. I practically concede an argument until we get more from her, and this is how you act? You go shove it.

Also, there is a reason Sidious wants to draw her off her world instead of taking the fight to her. It's a possibility he doesn't have faith in defeating her on her territory.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
You have serious problems Neph. I practically concede an argument until we get more from her, and this is how you act? You go shove it.

I'm not indulging your vendetta against me. Your issue with me is getting irritating. I was looking forward to replying until I saw that last comment.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Also, there is a reason Sidious wants to draw her off her world instead of taking the fight to her. It's a possibility he doesn't have faith in defeating her on her territory.
That might be very possible.
Dooku: "Why not simply send our armies to Dathomir?
Palpatine: "Because such methods cannot defeat a witch that powerful. Talzin must be coaxed into the light before she is permanently snuffed out."
--Star Wars Son of Dathomir 1

Originally posted by Nephthys
I'm not indulging your vendetta against me. Your issue with me is getting irritating. I was looking forward to replying until I saw that last comment.


Like I said, you have issues. I'm reasonable enough to concede, and expect that you do the same in the future under the same circumstance. You have a habit of not doing that, and instead turn to a bunch of implications, which I could easily do here.

You accuse me of having a self sense of superiority just because I expect you to be reasonable with me in the future as I am doing here. It's you who has that superior attitude.

BTW, you chose to reply to my post here.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
That might be very possible.
Dooku: "Why not simply send our armies to Dathomir?
Palpatine: "Because such methods cannot defeat a witch that powerful. Talzin must be coaxed into the light before she is permanently snuffed out."
--Star Wars Son of Dathomir 1




That's what I was referring to. Sidious might not be capable of defeating her on her planet, which is the setting of this thread.

It's also possible he doesn't want a Grievous scenario where she can escape.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I'm not going to waste my time if that's your attitude. Go shove it.

I'm not giving him more ammunition against me. Truthfully I would like to explore Talzin more in the debate since her ability is unclear but not with someone out to get me.

Neph wins and he's still mad. He's so hard to please.


Originally posted by NewGuy01
It's also possible he doesn't want a Grievous scenario where she can escape.


Either way, he wants to crush her, and her ability to teleport can happen off world. Him not going directly to her and wanting to draw her away from her planet, could be an implication that he might find it extremely difficult to defeat her on her territory, with it being imbued with her magic.

Or maybe she has some rare ability to resurrect herself on her planet.

It is not possible for Talzin to survive Emperor's powers. Simple.

Talzin would only accomplish one thing, annoy Emperor, and get toasted afterwards.

Vitiate would annoy Palpatine by trying to lay hands on a woman he once mingled with, and then Sidious force chokes them both to death.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
It is not possible for Talzin to survive Emperor's powers. Simple.

Talzin would only accomplish one thing, annoy Emperor, and get toasted afterwards.

Thoughts?

Vitiate still. :I

He'd put up a better fight than she did.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Vitiate still. :I

He'd put up a better fight than she did.

Talzin.

His lightning can't so shit, and he has no mind powers. She has the home field advantage, the ability to teleport the shit out of there if things go wrong, and prep time should she leave.

Sidious' lightning did shit and what the fawkes he has no mind powers?? He has da best mind powers, he's the most dominating Force-user the galaxy has ever seen. And prep will do her no good, Vitiate is the emperor of prep. His prep feats are the best ever seen.

Can't tell if serious.

Sidious' lightning did shit, so Vitiates won't either.
Vitiate has no mind powers here because you cannot dominate Talzin, or at least, no one has ever managed before.

He can't prep in the way she can, because he knows nothing about what would work on her, wheras she has seen Sith and knows of their sorcery.

Is Talzin > Gethzerion or no, I don't know much about her

I'd say so.

Originally posted by Selenial
Can't tell if serious.

Sidious' lightning did shit, so Vitiates won't either.
Vitiate has no mind powers here because you cannot dominate Talzin, or at least, no one has ever managed before.

He can't prep in the way she can, because he knows nothing about what would work on her, wheras she has seen Sith and knows of their sorcery.

Sidious' lightning looked to be overpowering hers.

No-one's ever tried to. Theres no reason Talzin couldn't be affected by his mental attacks.

If she's back in her physical form like I assume she is, then I think a bigass lightning bolt or whatever he used to kill the Dark Council with would work on her.

Wait, we're arguing that the god of prep can't kill some witch who's lost on almost every occasion with prep, when he has prep? To Jar-Jar?

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Wait, we're arguing that the god of prep can't kill some witch who's lost on almost every occasion with prep, when he has prep? To Jar-Jar?


No, Palpatine can kill Talzin considering his lightning was pushing hers back.

Wait...you meant Vitiate was the "god of prep." No lol, he just requires prep to pull off his most impressive feats, most of which we still know little to nothing about mainly his defeat of the dark council.

Sidious has no prep feat superior to taking down a whole Dark Council.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Sidious has no prep feat superior to taking down a whole Dark Council.


No, he's destroyed an entire star fleet without the need of prep which is a far superior display of power than anything Vitiate has done even with prep.

With prep, Palpatine was able to telepathically influence the entire jedi order spread throughout the galaxy. I won't go into detail how he managed to wipe out the entire jedi order and bring the galaxy to it's knees since it wasn't him by himself, wasn't all force related, and he required billions of pawns, but a lot of his success owed to his unmatched far sight and his ability to cloud the minds of thousands of force users at once, which in itself makes Palpatine the true god of prep.

As I said, Vitiate just requires prep to pull off his most impressive feats. That doesn't make him the god of prep.

Vitiate prepped longer than Palpatine was even alive. I think Sidious is more powerful overall, but that doesn't mean that he's the greatest in every aspect. I don't care if Force Storm is more impressive than killing the entire Dark Council in flash. Palpatine has done nothing similar, with prep or otherwise.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
No, he's destroyed an entire star fleet without the need of prep which is a far superior display of power than anything Vitiate has done even with prep.

With prep, Palpatine was able to telepathically influence the entire jedi order spread throughout the galaxy. I won't go into detail how he managed to wipe out the entire jedi order and bring the galaxy to it's knees since it wasn't him by himself, wasn't all force related, and he required billions of pawns, but a lot of his success owed to his unmatched far sight and his ability to cloud the minds of thousands of force users at once, which in itself makes Palpatine the true god of prep.

As I said, Vitiate just requires prep to pull off his most impressive feats. That doesn't make him the god of prep.

http://i.somethingawful.com/forumsystem/emoticons/emot-jerkbag.gif

The First Son, Vitiate's spawn, performed that same feat with hundreds of Sith, not just himself. And that's not a combat feat, chum.

Vitiate is superior at prep.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Vitiate prepped longer than Palpatine was even alive. I think Sidious is more powerful overall, but that doesn't mean that he's the greatest in every aspect. I don't care if Force Storm is more impressive than killing the entire Dark Council in flash. Palpatine has done nothing similar, with prep or otherwise.


I just proved that Sidious was better in that aspect, which you just ignored.

Needing prep to achieve greater results than he could without prep doesn't make one the god of prep. It just means he couldn't do it without prep.

Shouldn't even be a discussion but lol.

Originally posted by Nephthys
http://i.somethingawful.com/forumsystem/emoticons/emot-jerkbag.gif

The First Son, Vitiate's spawn, performed that same feat with hundreds of Sith, not just himself. And that's not a combat feat, chum.

Vitiate is superior at prep.


By your logic, someone who uses steroids just to achieve something on a far lesser extent than someone who didn't need steroids, means the steroid user is a god of prep. It doesn't. It just means he's not nearly as good without it.

As, I said, we have no idea how he took out the dark council other than it happened. We don't know what attack he used. You can't use a feat in a vs. forum if you can't even name the feat.

Originally posted by psmith81992

Shouldn't even be a discussion but lol.


How is your wife?

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
By your logic, someone who uses steroids just to achieve something on a far lesser extent than someone who didn't need steroids, means the steroid user is a god of prep. It doesn't. It just means he's not nearly as good without it.

As, I said, we have no idea how he took out the dark council other than it happened. We don't know what attack he used. You can't use a feat in a vs. forum if you can't even name the feat.

This sounds like a very huffy concession to me. I don't give a fvck whether Sidious is "better without it", we're discussing prep. Vitiate is better at prep because his use of prep is superior. Deal with it, Sidious isn't the best at everything. I know that's something deeply offensive to you but it's how the evidence goes.

Uh, yes I can. Who gives a shit about what it was. He did it, that's the only relevant thing about it.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
I just proved that Sidious was better in that aspect, which you just ignored.

Needing prep to achieve greater results than he could without prep doesn't make one the god of prep. It just means he couldn't do it without prep.
lolno you didn't. You went on to who you thought had the best showing period and how Sidious' lack of prep somehow made him impressive at prep. Then you went on to a feat Sidious didn't accomplish alone. This is about the greater showing of prep, which Sidious doesn't have. I don't care about what you believe he can do, he didn't do it. Plain and simple.

The steroid analogy is dumb as hell. If all things are equal (nutrition, weight lifting), and one of the two took steroids, he's going to be bigger. Sure it may mean less internally for accomplishment sake but results are the same.

Sidious with prep conquered the galaxy and wiped out the Jedi. Vitiate with prep conquered only half the galaxy and failed at destroying the Jedi.

Sidious with prep > Vitiate with prep

Good point. If you ignore any kind of context, that is or the entire discussion regarding prep.

Yeah. That's not an issue about personal combat prowess. Sidious' plan and the RoT was simply more effective than the previous attempts at open warfare. It doesn't reflect on their ability to utilise prep against people.


Furthermore, Sidious didn't have the Force Storm when he fought Talzin. So it was pretty damn pointless for S66 to bring up.

Context. Hmmm, good point.

Sidious did it in a few decades and Vitiate failed despite having well over a millennia.

Sidious>>>>>>>Vitiate

Vitiate wasn't trying to rule the galaxy.

They don't have similar goals in the slightest.I'm not sure why you two are continually trying to compare them when it matters little to the point.

Originally posted by Nephthys
This sounds like a very huffy concession to me. I don't give a fvck whether Sidious is "better without it", we're discussing prep. Vitiate is better at prep because his use of prep is superior. Deal with it, Sidious isn't the best at everything. I know that's something deeply offensive to you but it's how the evidence goes.

Uh, yes I can. Who gives a shit about what it was. He did it, that's the only relevant thing about it.


Basically Palpatine is better than Vitiate in just about everything.

And no, you can't use it unless you can explain how it would work on someone like Talzin. Palpatine having unmatched far sight, the ability to cloud the minds of thousands, and influencing the minds of thousands of jedi at once, are all qualities of his that can be used in a vs thread since we know exactly how it worked and where it got him. In conjunction with his far superior force powers, Palpatine's prep related qualities would make him the god of prep if we put him and Vitiate against each other in a thread wherein both have prep, considering that you just some what admitted that Palpatine, without prep, would demolish a Vitiate with prep.

Also, why would I be offensive at Palpatine producing far more destructive power than a prepped Vitiate? It just suggest how much superior he is to Vitiate.

Talk about denial and rationalization, lol.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Vitiate wasn't trying to rule the galaxy.

They don't have similar goals in the slightest.I'm not sure why you two are continually trying to compare them when it matters little to the point.

Much anger I sense in you.

And not sure if the second part was aimed at me... Considering I hardly compare the two anymore.

Originally posted by psmith81992

Shouldn't even be a discussion but lol.

You gonna give the thumbs up to the stuff that favors Sidious over Vitiate? It's only fair, man.

Most things favor Sidious over Vitiate, I don't need to give thumbs up to the obvious. But I'll give thumbs up to the things that favor Vitiate since they aren't a majority.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Yeah. That's not an issue about personal combat prowess. Sidious' plan and the RoT was simply more effective than the previous attempts at open warfare. It doesn't reflect on their ability to utilise prep against people.


Furthermore, Sidious didn't have the Force Storm when he fought Talzin. So it was pretty damn pointless for S66 to bring up.


Palpatine's prep-related force qualities do reflect his ability to utilize it in personal combat. How is this hard to grasp? Lol

When you said Vitiate was the god of prep, I was assuming you meant in the entire history of SW, so bringing up Palpatine's force storm wasn't pointless. I just felt the need to remind you that Palpatine is miles better than Vitiate.

Originally posted by psmith81992
Most things favor Sidious over Vitiate,

Now I've got wood.

Originally posted by ares834
Much anger I sense in you.

And not sure if the second part was aimed at me... Considering I hardly compare the two anymore.
Lol, what anger. I've long agreed that Sidious is the better.

And no, I sensed ash in the wind. And so he appeared.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
I've long agreed that Sidious is the better.

And my pants continue to tighten.

Palpatine's force storm isn't better than Vitiate's planet destroying ritual, lol.

Originally posted by psmith81992
Palpatine's force storm isn't better than Vitiate's planet destroying ritual, lol.

In all seriousness, how so?


Go ahead and respond, I'll get back to you later on this.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
In all seriousness, how so?


Go ahead and respond, I'll get back to you later on this.

I'd like a response as well for why the Force Storm is superior to Vitiate's ritual?

Because it didn't take 10 days and 8,000 other people to do it.

Originally posted by psmith81992
Palpatine's force storm isn't better than Vitiate's planet destroying ritual, lol.


Lmao

I'm not surprised you made such a stupid claim, considering you missed the point of my steroid analogy, and instead tried to convert it to a topic in an attempt convince others of your "expertise" in body building (you're so manly lol).

I'm not sure if he needed 8,000 sith lords or if it was his way of getting rid of competition. Point is, it left the entire planet devoid of the force and caused the greatest force nexus the galaxy would ever see.

I could bring an example of how he exterminated the entire dark council without knowing the technique.

Doesn't matter if he needed them, because all 8,000 participated. It's still the showings of 8,001 people unless we get any further information going one way or the other.

Also take into account that only one source said they participated willingly while the other said he dominated their minds.

Ripping large holes in the fabric of space and disintegrating entire star fleets >> leaving a planet devoid of the force and causing a great nexus, which, BTW, doesn't make sense. It's devoid of the force and a nexus of the force at the same time?

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
lolno you didn't. You went on to who you thought had the best showing period and how Sidious' lack of prep somehow made him impressive at prep. Then you went on to a feat Sidious didn't accomplish alone. This is about the greater showing of prep, which Sidious doesn't have. I don't care about what you believe he can do, he didn't do it. Plain and simple.


I missed this.

It is plain and simple, which is why I don't see how you're unable to grasp. Reread my response to you and the following posts from me, as I can't explain it in a simpler way.

Again, Palpatine not needing prep to achieve far superior feats, does not make Vitiate a god at prep unless his prep allowed him to achieve feats superior to Sidious' (it never has). Palpatine's natural gifts with respect to abilities that are usable in prep can be used better in a vs match than a feat we know absolutely nothing about other than it happened, unless you're implying that Palpatine's natural abilities only aid him in prep with more complex situations than it would for one on one battle, which would be a rather silly suggestion. Palpatine's success speaks for itself when it comes to prep. Prepping for a one on one battle would certainly be much, much easier.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Basically Palpatine is better than Vitiate in just about everything.

And no, you can't use it unless you can explain how it would work on someone like Talzin. Palpatine having unmatched far sight, the ability to cloud the minds of thousands, and influencing the minds of thousands of jedi at once, are all qualities of his that can be used in a vs thread since we know exactly how it worked and where it got him. In conjunction with his far superior force powers, Palpatine's prep related qualities would make him the god of prep if we put him and Vitiate against each other in a thread wherein both have prep, considering that you just some what admitted that Palpatine, without prep, would demolish a Vitiate with prep.

Also, why would I be offensive at Palpatine producing far more destructive power than a prepped Vitiate? It just suggest how much superior he is to Vitiate.

Well I guess "just about everything" doesn't include prep, huh?

I can use it because Talzin is a being who can be affected by the Force and theres no reason to think she has immunity to attacks. And no, none of those things are relevant to a vs match. Maybe he can brag about how great he is at non-combative abilities while Vitiate is rodgering him bloody with a lightning bolt. Palpatine is not the god of prep. He has never actually utilised prep against an opponent in a notable fashion. And I admitted no such thing, I stated that I didn't care whether he was superior without it or not.

I think you meant "offended by". And "suggests". "How much superior" also sounds pretty clunky to me. You can really tell how annoyed you are at the prospect of Sidious being inferior in something to Vitiate by all these mistakes.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Palpatine's prep-related force qualities do reflect his ability to utilize it in personal combat. How is this hard to grasp? Lol

When you said Vitiate was the god of prep, I was assuming you meant in the entire history of SW, so bringing up Palpatine's force storm wasn't pointless. I just felt the need to remind you that Palpatine is miles better than Vitiate.

Sidious taking over the galaxy through careful subterfuge and manipulation doesn't reflect anything about his ability to fight using prep.

I didn't call him the god of prep. And if you look back, when you thought Sidious was being termed as such you were talking about his CW persona that fought Talzin. So that's what we're talking about here.

Oh and also go **** yourself.

Fanboys are funny.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
*snip*
Unless Palpatine's prepped feats are above Vitiate's, Vitiate has the higher prepped feat, and thus reigns supreme in that category. I don't give a shit what you think he can do. I don't care about what he has done in other areas. I don't care that he is more powerful. I don't care about his accolades. I don't care about how many people he's killed straight up, and I don't care about great his combat record is. He doesn't have better prepped feats, so does not have the best showing in a prepped v prepped match up.

Originally posted by psmith81992
I'd like a response as well for why the Force Storm is superior to Vitiate's ritual?

The Dark Empire Sourcebook and The Jedi Path both confirm that the reborn Emperor's Force storms could cause planetary destruction and, as FreshestSlice noted, the Emperor can summon them without aid or preparation.



The problem is that, as you've conceded, unprepped!Palpatine has better feats than prepped!Vitiate. With that in mind and given that Sidious is a peer of Vitiate at the very least with respect to power and knowledge, why would we assume Sidious is incapable of matching or exceeding Vitiate?

Relying on feats and feats alone to draw conclusions is a slippery slope, particularly in defense of Vitiate.

Originally posted by The_Tempest

The problem is that, as you've conceded, unprepped!Palpatine has better feats than prepped!Vitiate. With that in mind and given that Sidious is a peer of Vitiate at the very least with respect to power and knowledge, why would we assume Sidious is incapable of matching or exceeding Vitiate?

Relying on feats and feats alone to draw conclusions is a slippery slope, particularly in defense of Vitiate.
Yes that would be a problem, if I weren't saying that Vitiate has the best prep feats in the mythos, which is what I was saying. "Nah, Sidious is better so he can prep better," really doesn't matter to the claim I made.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Yes that would be a problem, if I weren't saying that Vitiate has the best prep feats in the mythos, which is what I was saying. "Nah, Sidious is better so he can prep better," really doesn't matter to the claim I made.

Do you English, my son?

You conceded that unprepped!Sidious has better feats than prepped!Vitiate, yes? Given that Sidious is, at the very least, a peer of Vitiate's on every level (intelligence, Force knowledge, Force resources, etc.), it's not at all unreasonable to conclude that Sidious might very well rival or surpass Vitiate in that realm as well, since we've already established that Sidious's best unprepped feat tops Vitiate's best prepped.

What "unprepped" feat does sidious have that's better than anything Vitiate has prepped? The force storm was prepped.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Do you English, my son?

You conceded that unprepped!Sidious has better feats than prepped!Vitiate, yes? Given that Sidious is, at the very least, a peer of Vitiate's on every level (intelligence, Force knowledge, Force resources, etc.), it's not at all unreasonable to conclude that Sidious might very well rival or surpass Vitiate in that realm as well, since we've already established that Sidious's best unprepped feat tops Vitiate's best prepped.
I am not your son, and you are an awful father if you think that because Vitiate's best prepped feat is below Sidious' best unprepped feat, that Sidious somehow has a better prepped feat. I think Vitiate has the best prepped feat in the mythos. It's not the best feat. It's the best prepped feat. I don't care about what Sidious is capable of.
Originally posted by psmith81992
What "unprepped" feat does sidious have that's better than anything Vitiate has prepped? The force storm was prepped.
That's not prep. He didn't prepare for that before the battle.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Well I guess "just about everything" doesn't include prep, huh?

I can use it because Talzin is a being who can be affected by the Force and theres no reason to think she has immunity to attacks. And no, none of those things are relevant to a vs match. Maybe he can brag about how great he is at non-combative abilities while Vitiate is rodgering him bloody with a lightning bolt. Palpatine is not the god of prep. He has never actually utilised prep against an opponent in a notable fashion. And I admitted no such thing, I stated that I didn't care whether he was superior without it or not.

I think you meant "offended by". And "suggests". "How much superior" also sounds pretty clunky to me. You can really tell how annoyed you are at the prospect of Sidious being Vitiate inferior in something by all these mistakes.


When you said "I don't give a shit if Sidious is better without it," I thought that was in response to my suggestion that destroying fleets of ships without prep >>>>>>>>>> destroying the dark council with prep.

Lol @ Vitiate frying Palpatine with lightning. If you want to get silly, I could make a far better case for Sidious speed blitzing Vitiate considering he has speed feats for me to easily make that case, which is something I guarantee you wouldn't be able to refute. The fact that I don't use that as an argument despite him having the feats, should tell you that I'm not getting annoyed. Regardless, Palpatine has better lightning feats than Vitiate and if they both had prep, all he'd have to do is destroy Vitiate and his entire dark temple with a single attack. Hell, Palpatine could do that without prep as long as he's at a safe distance.

No, Palpatine utilized prep in a far more complex situation. Prepping himself to take out a single opponent would be much simpler. As I said, his success speaks for itself with regards to prep. If you want to make a vs thread and give both Palpatine and Vitiate prep, I guarantee you Palpatine would come out on top on account of having better feats along with being equipped with force powers that play a major role in prep.

As for Talzin, considering that she has prep and is on her planet with the ability to instantly teleport, you'd need to prove that Vitiate's attack would do the same to a prepped Talzin. Also, she has better reflexes and battle speed on account of matching Windu in that area, so what's to stop her from disintegrating Vitiate with her green mist first. She also has the ability to produce fire at a certain target with the wave of her hand, so what's to stop her from burning Vitiate from the inside out? Of course you're going to argue that since we didn't see her utilize these abilities in mid-combat that she is unable to despite the ease in which she's shown to perform them. However, you want me to accept that Vitiate would defeat her with some power that you know nothing about. Double standards is your style of debating after all.

Double standards are for those who are desperate to win an argument, which usually turns out to be the ones who are getting annoyed. I make mistakes all the time. As long as my point is made clear, I don't care about them. Even if I didn't make any mistakes, it's hard for the delusional fangirls to get the point.


Originally posted by Nephthys
Sidious taking over the galaxy through careful subterfuge and manipulation doesn't reflect anything about his ability to fight using prep.


Prep is prep, wtf (lmao). It reflects his ability to plan ahead (which is what you do when you are, you know, given prep), and was largely accomplished by using his force powers, such as his unmatched far sight, clouding the minds of every jedi in the order, using rituals to manipulate thousands of force users across the galaxy all at once, and maintaining his hold over the force. These are all areas of force powers that can be used by Sidious in a vs thread, along with his superior displays of force powers in general. But, by all means, keep harping on Vitiate prepping himself to amp his force powers to take on 12 force users. All you're proving is that Vitiate requires prep to do things Palpatine can do without prep, except to a far lesser extent.


Originally posted by Nephthys
I didn't call him the god of prep. And if you look back, when you thought Sidious was being termed as such you were talking about his CW persona that fought Talzin. So that's what we're talking about here.


I was being sarcastic with that first post. I knew he was talking about Vitiate, so, no, I didn't think his CW persona was being termed as such. I was referring to Sidious as being the god of prep due to the fact that he is the best at it in SW.

I brought up his force storm as a way to suggest that Palpatine not requiring prep to perform feats far greater than a Vitiate with prep, doesn't mean Vitiate is his superior in prep, considering he's never did anything superior to Palpatine even with it. The fact that Palpatine is better even without prep, would logically determine Sidious would overcome Vitiate if they both are given prep, considering the things Palpatine's achieved with the help of his force powers, which would in turn indicate Palpatine is superior in the area of prep.


Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Unless Palpatine's prepped feats are above Vitiate's, Vitiate has the higher prepped feat, and thus reigns supreme in that category. I don't give a shit what you think he can do. I don't care about what he has done in other areas. I don't care that he is more powerful. I don't care about his accolades. I don't care about how many people he's killed straight up, and I don't care about great his combat record is. He doesn't have better prepped feats, so does not have the best showing in a prepped v prepped match up.


Palpatine's usage of prep is far superior to Vitiate's, and is therefore more usable in a vs match if we were to compare them. I also couldn't give a shit about Vitiate requiring prep to do something Sidious would be able to do without prep. That's like saying Talzin is better at prep because she nearly killed Dooku from a distance of light years with prep, which is something Sidious could do just by closing his fist without prep. Palpatine's use of prep and success in far more complex situations, trumps beating 12 force users with prep.

As I said, Palpatine's more destructive feats in conjunction with his prep-related fore abilities can be put to use in a vs match better than some unknown feat of Vitiate's that required prep. How is this even being argued?

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
I am not your son, and you are an awful father if you think that because Vitiate's best prepped feat is below Sidious' best unprepped feat, that Sidious somehow has a better prepped feat. I think Vitiate has the best prepped feat in the mythos. It's not the best feat. It's the best prepped feat. I don't care about what Sidious is capable of.

I didn't say that Sidious has the best prepped feat. What I'm saying is that if Sidious without prep trumps Vitiate with prep and Sidious at the very least rivals Vitiate in all the things that factor into prep (knowledge, intelligence, resources, etc.), then it is reasonable to conclude that Sidious may very well be Vitiate's better in that aspect as well.

Kinda like how Vitiate has no speed feats to speak of, right? So if we followed the "lolz feats only" paradigm, a convincing case could be made that Sidious would give Viti the Agen Kolar treatment. But that's silly, right? So we infer, based on Viti's considerable strength in the Force and mastery of it, that he's powerful enough to be effectively non-blitzable and would, if necessary, be capable of impressive speed feats.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66


Palpatine's usage of prep is far superior to Vitiate's, and is therefore more usable in a vs match if we were to compare them. I also couldn't give a shit about Vitiate requiring prep to do something Sidious would be able to do without prep. That's like saying Talzin is better at prep because she nearly killed Dooku from a distance of light years with prep, which is something Sidious could do just by closing his fist without prep. Palpatine's use of prep and success in far more complex situations, trumps beating 12 force users with prep.

Not the point.

Also not the point.

Who has the best prepped feat? Vitiate. He's soloed several high level Force-users at once. Sacrificed planets. And dominated thousands of people at once over an extended period of time.

If you don't care that this is an amazing prepped feat and beyond anything Sidious has done with prep, which is the point of the observation, feel free to no longer reply.
Originally posted by The_Tempest
I didn't say that Sidious has the best prepped feat. What I'm saying is that if Sidious without prep trumps Vitiate with prep and Sidious at the very least rivals Vitiate in all the things that factor into prep (knowledge, intelligence, resources, etc.), then it is reasonable to conclude that Sidious may very well be Vitiate's better in that aspect as well.
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Yes that would be a problem, if I weren't saying that Vitiate has the best prep feats in the mythos, which is what I was saying.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Kinda like how Vitiate has no speed feats to speak of, right? So if we followed the "lolz feats only" paradigm, a convincing case could be made that Sidious would give Viti the Agen Kolar treatment. But that's silly, right? So we infer, based on Viti's considerable strength in the Force and mastery of it, that he's powerful enough to be effectively non-blitzable and would, if necessary, be capable of impressive speed feats.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Not the point.

Also not the point.

Who has the best prepped feat? Vitiate. He's soloed several high level Force-users at once. Sacrificed planets. And dominated thousands of people at once over an extended period of time.

If you don't care that this is an amazing prepped feat and beyond anything Sidious has done with prep, which is the point of the observation, feel free to no longer reply.


Lol, I'm done.

I mean, I'm just making sure we're not tossing inference and deductive reasoning out the window entirely.

Talzin SLAUGHTERHOUSE

Originally posted by The_Tempest
I mean, I'm just making sure we're not tossing inference and deductive reasoning out the window entirely.



Implications and logical inference can also be used with PT characters, people.

http://t.qkme.me/3osz4a.jpg

Sidious isn't the one being fought here. So again, what does Talzin have, with prep, that could stop Vitiate with prep? How is Talzin's prep superior to Vitiate's? If it's not, then I stand by what I implied earlier.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Talzin SLAUGHTERHOUSE

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Sidious isn't the one being fought here. So again, what does Talzin have, with prep, that could stop Vitiate with prep? How is Talzin's prep superior to Vitiate's? If it's not, then I stand by what I implied earlier.

>Nearly killing Dooku from halfway across the galaxy.
>Amping Savage to a powerhouse
>Resurrecting Maul
>Conducting a ritual that would have and I quote "made her more powerful than the Jedi and the Sith combined".

These rival Vitiate.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
I mean, I'm just making sure we're not tossing inference and deductive reasoning out the window entirely.


I agree ma brotha from Kentucky, even though I think you are too reasonable sometimes.

BTW, do you really think I lowball Vitiate too much? If so, how?

I don't see how Talzin takes this. Attacking with dark side sorcery and magic might be the worst way to approach Vitiate. Vitiate's lightning is possibly the strongest sith lightning out there and I don't see how Talzin can defend and then retaliate against his mental domination, lightning and endless force maneuvers and tricks that would constantly keep her defensive.

Vitiate's one-shoting the strongest jedi strike team in SWTOR is above anything Talzin ever achieved.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Wait, we're arguing that the god of prep can't kill some witch who's lost on almost every occasion with prep, when he has prep? To Jar-Jar?

No, we're arguing that the woman who could have killed Dooku from across the galaxy, if she didn't want him to suffer first, could prepare more devastating attacks on her damn homeworld than Vitiate can.

Noting of course that his Solo of the Dark Council was on a Dark Side nexus, which apparently (according to you guys) doesn't exist on Dathomir.