Manhattan vs Reeve’s Superman vs Thor vs Silver Surfer

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Kotor3
Battle for the world.

Superman is tricked into killing millions of people including Louis Lane by the joker (just like in the game Injustice Gods Among Us). Superman has gone bad and wants to rule mankind.

Manhattan feels that he needs to lead Man.

Silver Surfer wants to prepare the plant for his master.

Thor wants to protect earth.

Battle takes place on earth. Who wins?

Time Immemorial
Manhattan wipes them out

God Cloth Seiya
Manhattan

quanchi112
Superman dies first.

God Cloth Seiya
Lol at quan chi.

quanchi112
Originally posted by God Cloth Seiya
Lol at quan chi. ?

God Cloth Seiya
Reeve superman isn't dying first.

quanchi112
Originally posted by God Cloth Seiya
Reeve superman isn't dying first. Yes, he is. He struggles with bus loads of people. I sense a Lestov joke coming. I'll let him off the hook this time.

Kotor3
Two for Manhattan. Both you said it as if it would be real easy for Manhattan.

This seems like it would be an epic battle. A bad superman not holding back and an Silver Surfer still under his Master.

Movie Thor may be the weak link here.

Kotor3
Originally posted by quanchi112
Yes, he is. He struggles with bus loads of people. I sense a Lestov joke coming. I'll let him off the hook this time.

This is the second thread I see you making statements about Reeve's Superman being weak. Are you serious or just making jokes for us to laugh at?

StealthRanger
Movie Thor is the weakest

EDIT: Surfer wins

zeel
Originally posted by quanchi112
Yes, he is. He struggles with bus loads of people. I sense a Lestov joke coming. I'll let him off the hook this time.


Yet he had no problem lifting the western side of the united states and preventing a collapse of the fault line. during a earth quake. Its just a movie man struggling to handle that bus means nothing.

God Cloth Seiya
Didn't reeve move like a planet or something? Or am I thinking of smallville Clark?

quanchi112
Originally posted by Kotor3
This is the second thread I see you making statements about Reeve's Superman being weak. Are you serious or just making jokes for us to laugh at? Deadly serious.

quanchi112
Originally posted by zeel
Yet he had no problem lifting the western side of the united states and preventing a collapse of the fault line. during a earth quake. Its just a movie man struggling to handle that bus means nothing. It all matters. Manhole covers hurt him for crying out loud. The supercomputer had him beat if he didn't use the acid plot device.

smile

StealthRanger
Originally posted by God Cloth Seiya
Didn't reeve move like a planet or something? Or am I thinking of smallville Clark?

Smallville Clark moved a planet

Reeves Supes did however move fast enough to spin the entire planet's rotation backwards and forwards again (which could say something about his physical power since he did move the planet without touching it)

God Cloth Seiya
I also don't see surfer hurting Manhattan or Reeve either. I don't see surfer tagging them either.

quanchi112
Originally posted by God Cloth Seiya
I also don't see surfer hurting Manhattan or Reeve either. I don't see surfer tagging them either. Reeve gets tagged and flat out beaten by a slow supercomputer. He needed pryors help and a plot device to survive.

God Cloth Seiya
And surfer got his powers stolen by weaklings. Point?

Time Immemorial
Originally posted by StealthRanger
Movie Thor is the weakest

EDIT: Surfer wins

No Manhattan wipes him out.

quanchi112
Originally posted by God Cloth Seiya
And surfer got his powers stolen by weaklings. Point? He was tricked and not defeated in combat. Superman was beaten in combat. Context, kiddo.

Kotor3
Originally posted by quanchi112
Deadly serious.

LOL. Well, everyone is entitled to an opinion.

Kotor3
Originally posted by quanchi112
It all matters. Manhole covers hurt him for crying out loud. The supercomputer had him beat if he didn't use the acid plot device.

smile

Wrong! Just because he was weaken doesn't mean he was beat.

Yes, the supercomputer that was able to figure out his weakness in a matter of secs and blast him with kryptonite. The superman in Returns was a continuation of the Reeve's superman and that superman lifted a continent filled with kryptonite out into space while weakened.

So your example is irrelevant and even more so since this is a superman gone bad that wouldn't give the computer or anyone a chance to get the better of him.

Kotor3

Time Immemorial

quanchi112
Originally posted by Kotor3
Wrong! Just because he was weaken doesn't mean he was beat.

Yes, the supercomputer that was able to figure out his weakness in a matter of secs and blast him with kryptonite. The superman in Returns was a continuation of the Reeve's superman and that superman lifted a continent filled with kryptonite out into space while weakened.

So your example is irrelevant and even more so since this is a superman gone bad that wouldn't give the computer or anyone a chance to get the better of him. He was defeated and pryorhad to help him as did the acid had to save him. Facts, sport.



He was amped by the sun.


Superman was better at the time of the conflict.

smile

ares834
Originally posted by StealthRanger
Reeves Supes did however move fast enough to spin the entire planet's rotation backwards and forwards again (which could say something about his physical power since he did move the planet without touching it)

Really? IIRC, he just went FTL causing him to go back in time (and thus the planet seemed to spin backward for him).

Manhattan wins.

Firefly218
Originally posted by Time Immemorial
He simply makes Superman disappear by removing his intrinsic field and disintegrating him.

thumb up

Epicurus
Originally posted by God Cloth Seiya
And surfer got his powers stolen by weaklings. Point?
Plot device tachyon tech.

Surfer destroyed Galactus, who is thousands of times more powerful than any other opponent here. Surfer wins.

DrDeadpool
Dr Manhattan wins.

Kotor3
Originally posted by Time Immemorial
He simply makes Superman disappear by removing his intrinsic field and disintegrating him.

That is one way however I would have to say the Reeve's Superman intrinsic field is quite extraordinary.

Anyone that can turn back time simply through his speed I doubt his intrinsic field could be removed so easily if at all.

Kotor3
Originally posted by ares834
Really? IIRC, he just went FTL causing him to go back in time (and thus the planet seemed to spin backward for him).

Really, where did you get this from? The director clearly shows him spinning the planet backwards and then forward. What reason was there for him to show this if he was moving the planet?

ares834
Originally posted by Kotor3
Really, where did you get this from? The director clearly shows him spinning the planet backwards and then forward. What reason was there for him to show this if he was moving the planet?

Because the director didn't understand physics? Superman going FTL to travel back in time makes more pseudo-science sense then him somehow spinning the planet backwards which causes time to some how rewind.

Kotor3
Originally posted by quanchi112
He was defeated and pryorhad to help him as did the acid had to save him. Facts, sport.



He was amped by the sun.


Superman was better at the time of the conflict.

smile

Ok, if that is how you see it. I definitely disagree. The movie I saw he was weaken not defeated. Pryor decided to help did not have to.

Either way the computer was using Kryptonite, you know the universal thing shown in comics, movies, cartoons, that can hurt and kill superman.

You make it seem as if the computer just put him down using non-kryptonian substance.

Kotor3
Originally posted by ares834
Because the director didn't understand physics? Superman going FTL to travel back in time makes more pseudo-science sense then him somehow spinning the planet backwards which causes time to some how rewind.

I disagree. This is your speculation on the matter. The director wanted us to show the audience that time was going backwards thus the movement of the planet backwards.

I am going to see if I can find something on the net showing what director wanted to display. There are all kinds of quotes on the net stating that the planet was moved.

Kotor3
I am still looking for the director perspective. Here is a link that discusses your and mine point of views with a video of the event:
http://scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/24116/how-did-superman-turn-back-time-in-the-first-movie

What is interesting is that once Superman reaches max speed the earths stops and starting rotating backwards. Same thing when he goes forward. Watch the video.

ares834
Originally posted by Kotor3
I am still looking for the director perspective. Here is a link that discusses your and mine point of views with a video of the event:
http://scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/24116/how-did-superman-turn-back-time-in-the-first-movie

What is interesting is that once Superman reaches max speed the earths stops and starting rotating backwards. Same thing when he goes forward. Watch the video.

Well, yeah... If you were going backwards in time the Earth would appear to turn backwards. Does it make any sense that he need to go forward again to return time back to normal? No. But it's a a lesser hole than spinning the Earth backward=reverse time.

Kotor3
Originally posted by ares834
Well, yeah... If you were going backwards in time the Earth would appear to turn backwards. Does it make any sense that he need to go forward again to return time back to normal? No. But it's a a lesser hole than spinning the Earth backward=reverse time.

You are trying to use logical reasoning for a movie and I trying to show you what the director was displaying and meant to display.

We are going to have to disagree on this one. If I can find some quotes from the director on this matter I will post them.

danielgamer

quanchi112
Originally posted by Kotor3
Ok, if that is how you see it. I definitely disagree. The movie I saw he was weaken not defeated. Pryor decided to help did not have to.

Either way the computer was using Kryptonite, you know the universal thing shown in comics, movies, cartoons, that can hurt and kill superman.

You make it seem as if the computer just put him down using non-kryptonian substance. He decided to help but Superman couldn't resist and was at its mercy. That's called getting your ass kicked and needing a reprieve by outside help.

Not when it covered him and overwhelmed him.

At the end it was.

Superman was shit in that encounter.

Tattoos N Scars
Originally posted by Epicurus
Plot device tachyon tech.

Surfer destroyed Galactus, who is thousands of times more powerful than any other opponent here. Surfer wins.

If Surfer destroyed him, he was much weaker than his comics counterpart. Galactus has zero feats to guage his true power level.

Surfer wouldn't be able to tag Superman. He couldn't even shake Human Torch. Surfer had to stop, grab him by throat and let him fall to Earth.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Tattoos N Scars
If Surfer destroyed him, he was much weaker than his comics counterpart. Galactus has zero feats to guage his true power level.

Surfer wouldn't be able to tag Superman. He couldn't even shake Human Torch. Surfer had to stop, grab him by throat and let him fall to Earth. Humans and machines tag Superman at less than human speed. Quit ignoring the films and making things up.

Tattoos N Scars
Originally posted by quanchi112
Humans and machines tag Superman at less than human speed. Quit ignoring the films and making things up.

No plot devices or CIS here, princess!!

quanchi112
Originally posted by Tattoos N Scars
No plot devices or CIS here, princess!! Superman needed the plot devices to save him so he gets utterly stomped without them. Thanks, loser.

Tattoos N Scars
Originally posted by quanchi112
Khan needed the plot devices to save him so he gets utterly stomped without them. Thanks, loser.


I agree, princess.

Kotor3

quanchi112
Originally posted by Tattoos N Scars
I agree, princess. No, he didn't. He used his own tech and skill. Others needed aid and what not. Quit lying, skankzilla.

quanchi112

Tattoos N Scars

quanchi112
Originally posted by Tattoos N Scars
Quan ignores context when arguing characters she doesn't like. I cited the context. Myour two are ignoring it just like your wife ignores you in the bedroom.

Tattoos N Scars
Originally posted by quanchi112
No, he didn't. He used his own tech and skill. Others needed aid and what not. Quit lying, skankzilla.


Again, I agree. Superman won with his own skill. I knew you'd come around. Concession accepted!!

Lestov16
Whomever is the anti-Quan is the best debater in universal history.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Tattoos N Scars
Again, I agree. Superman won with his own skill. I knew you'd come around. Concession accepted!! Khan did but Superman needed Richard and a plot device to save him.

Supercomputer>>>Superman.


smile

quanchi112
Originally posted by Lestov16
Whomever is the anti-Quan is the best debater in universal history. Having Quan nightmares again.

laughing out loud

Tattoos N Scars
Originally posted by quanchi112
I cited the context. Myour two are ignoring it just like your wife ignores you in the bedroom.

You peeping through my window to look at my dick, princess?

quanchi112
Originally posted by Tattoos N Scars
You peeping through my window to look at my dick, princess? Your wife says that is why she goes outside the marriage your little friend doesn't cut the mustard.

Tattoos N Scars
Originally posted by quanchi112
Your wife says that is why she goes outside the marriage your little friend doesn't cut the mustard.

She teach you how to get a girlfriend? The importance of having a job? You can't do much with the allowance your mommy gives ya!!

Kotor3
Originally posted by quanchi112
Long rant.

LOL. At least there is reasoning in it.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Bottom line is he needed Pryors help.

I believe you said this line about three times already. Great argument!

Kotor3
Originally posted by Tattoos N Scars
Quan ignores context when arguing characters she doesn't like.

So it seems.

Epicurus
Originally posted by Tattoos N Scars
If Surfer destroyed him, he was much weaker than his comics counterpart. Galactus has zero feats to guage his true power level.

Surfer wouldn't be able to tag Superman. He couldn't even shake Human Torch. Surfer had to stop, grab him by throat and let him fall to Earth.
Galactus was a planet-destroying entity in those movies, who had already destroyed countless worlds prior to the attack on Earth. Surfer still blew that shit up. In an explosion in space which dwarfed the whole of planet Earth. Not to mention the whole range of exotic powers like energy blasts, phasing, and matter manip.

laughing out loud Being annoyed by someone isn't the same thing as being slow. The Surfer travelled at ftl speeds to reach the Earth, and was able to easily outmaneuver missiles.

Tattoos N Scars
Originally posted by Epicurus
Galactus was a planet-destroying entity in those movies, who had already destroyed countless worlds prior to the attack on Earth. Surfer still blew that shit up. In an explosion in space which dwarfed the whole of planet Earth. Not to mention the whole range of exotic powers like energy blasts, phasing, and matter manip.

laughing out loud Being annoyed by someone isn't the same thing as being slow. The Surfer travelled at ftl speeds to reach the Earth, and was able to easily outmaneuver missiles.

I'm sure Surfer is ftl, being he traveled to Earth to prepare it for Galactus. However, the movie didn't show any of that. I was jyst arguing based on screen feats, not implied feats. We did see Galactus moving slowly past Saturn. I'm sure Torch keeping up with Surfer was just CIS/PIS, but it is all we have to go on based on screen feats.

I'm not exactly sure how how Surfer defeated Galactus. The writers were not sure either, so they left it ambiguous. In any event, Big G had a low showing there, as he was technically one shotted by Surfer...something that wouldn't happen in comics.

Epicurus
Originally posted by Tattoos N Scars
I'm sure Surfer is ftl, being he traveled to Earth to prepare it for Galactus. However, the movie didn't show any of that. I was jyst arguing based on screen feats, not implied feats. We did see Galactus moving slowly past Saturn. I'm sure Torch keeping up with Surfer was just CIS/PIS, but it is all we have to go on based on screen feats.

I'm not exactly sure how how Surfer defeated Galactus. The writers were not sure either, so they left it ambiguous. In any event, Big G had a low showing there, as he was technically one shotted by Surfer...something that wouldn't happen in comics.
Galactus destroyed a planet in the very first scene of the movie. Lol, it wasn't an implied feat. We saw him covering interstellar distance in the blink of an eye in the same scene.

He defeated him by supercharging and imploding his power cosmic. It was Jupiter-sized explosion. Galactus being destroyed by that level of power isn't unreasonable.

Tattoos N Scars
Originally posted by Epicurus
Galactus destroyed a planet in the very first scene of the movie. Lol, it wasn't an implied feat. We saw him covering interstellar distance in the blink of an eye in the same scene.

He defeated him by supercharging and imploding his power cosmic. It was Jupiter-sized explosion. Galactus being destroyed by that level of power isn't unreasonable.

I stand corrected, haven't seen that movie in forever. A planet destroying blast shouldn't harm Galactus though. He's abstract level when fed. I understand Galactus had to be stopped, but Surfer isn't powerful enough. Big G smacks Thanos around who smacks Surfer around...power differencd is too large.

Epicurus
Originally posted by Tattoos N Scars
I stand corrected, haven't seen that movie in forever. A planet destroying blast shouldn't harm Galactus though. He's abstract level when fed. I understand Galactus had to be stopped, but Surfer isn't powerful enough. Big G smacks Thanos around who smacks Surfer around...power differencd is too large.
This isn't comic book Galactus.laughing out loud Abstract characters haven't even been introduced in any Marvel-based movie so far anyways.

Thanos isn't part of the FF movies in which Surfer and Galactus appeared.

Tattoos N Scars
Originally posted by Epicurus
This isn't comic book Galactus.laughing out loud Abstract characters haven't even been introduced in any Marvel-based movie so far anyways.

Thanos isn't part of the FF movies in which Surfer and Galactus appeared.

Yeah I know. I wish the movies stayed true to the comics

quanchi112
Originally posted by Tattoos N Scars
She teach you how to get a girlfriend? The importance of having a job? You can't do much with the allowance your mommy gives ya!! Quit confusing me with Lestov.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Kotor3
LOL. At least there is reasoning in it.



I believe you said this line about three times already. Great argument! You denied him needing help to avoid the supercomputers attacks. You lied numerous times.

Tattoos N Scars
Originally posted by quanchi112
You denied him needing help to avoid the supercomputers attacks. You lied numerous times.

Quan, how bout no bashing fir a few days out of respect for Guy. That goes for both of us.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Tattoos N Scars
Quan, how bout no bashing fir a few days out of respect for Guy. That goes for both of us. Fine.

Arachnid1
Manhattan almost instantly blinks them all out of existence.

Kotor3
Originally posted by quanchi112
You denied him needing help to avoid the supercomputers attacks. You lied numerous times.

You are starting to sound like a child. You said he needed, I say he didn't how is that a lie? So if Superman receives help he needs it?

Alright this conversation is over.

Kotor3
Originally posted by Arachnid1
Manhattan almost instantly blinks them all out of existence.

Or Superman uses his speed to distort time and send Manhattan to the stone age.

Or Superman sucks up Manhattan essence fly to the Sun and blows Manhattan into the Sun.

juggerman
Manhattan has walked on the surface of the sun with no issue. He can also teleport and create clones

Kotor3
Didn't know he did that in the movie. I don't remember him doing so.

Anyway I don't see Manhattan simply wiping out any of the contenders here.

Kotor3

dadudemon
If Superman is made of matter, he can be vaporized by Manhattan. Since we know Superman is not comprised if exotic matter, he gets vaped easily by Manhattan.

Also, I should point out that it is literally impossible to kill Dr. Manhattan. Even if his opponents succeed in destroying his body, he can just reform it.

Dr. Manhattan is functionally a god. He doesn't belong in threads like these.

Robtard
Agreed. Manhattan could matter manipulate the rest. The only one who has a possible chance of harming Manhattan is the Surfer via his suicide attack that destroyed Galactus, but that won't matter.

Kotor3
I keep hearing that Superman gets vaped easily. Based on? I already gave an example that proves Superman body/intrinsic field must be almost if not indestructible.

He did not use a tool, spaceship, or kryptonian technology. He used his own speed and body to create a rift in space and time. That alone should have killed him or rip his body or intrinsic field apart.

Maybe I need to read up on Manhattan more. I just can think of an example of him doing something that would have the same force of creating a rift in space and time.

Zack Fair
Originally posted by dadudemon
If Superman is made of matter, he can be vaporized by Manhattan. Since we know Superman is not comprised if exotic matter, he gets vaped easily by Manhattan.

Also, I should point out that it is literally impossible to kill Dr. Manhattan. Even if his opponents succeed in destroying his body, he can just reform it.

Dr. Manhattan is functionally a god. He doesn't belong in threads like these. What do you mean exotic matter?

Robtard
Originally posted by Kotor3
I keep hearing that Superman gets vaped easily. Based on? I already gave an example that proves Superman body/intrinsic field must be almost if not indestructible.

He did not use a tool, spaceship, or kryptonian technology. He used his own speed and body to create a rift in space and time. That alone should have killed him or rip his body or intrinsic field apart.

Maybe I need to read up on Manhattan more. I just can think of an example of him doing something that would have the same force of creating a rift in space and time.

Molecular manipulation. If Superman's body is too durable to assplode, then Manhattan converts it to something that is less durable and then assplodes that.

If the thought of that still has you saying "nope, not Superman.", then Manhattan also has the ability to teleport Superman into the nearest super-massive black hole where if he isn't torn apart by the gravity that is so strong that not even light can escape, he'll he effectively trapped, ie win via BFR.

Another way too look at it: Superman can do nothing to harm Manhattan, who sees time (past, present and future) all at once and who can exist sans a body; as a consciousness alone. While Manhattan has options in ways to kill or dispose of Superman.

dadudemon
Originally posted by Zack Fair
What do you mean exotic matter?

Nothing extraordinary above and beyond the understood definition of "exotic matter" in particle physics.

https://www.princeton.edu/~achaney/tmve/wiki100k/docs/Exotic_matter.html


Basically, I do not want to commit a "no-limits fallacy" by pretending that Dr. Manhattan has the ability to disintegrate constructions of exotic matter because that matter, by definition, would operate "exotically" compared to regular matter. For example, Bose-Einstein Condensates (BEC) definitely do things that defy standard physics. The "field" that Dr. Manhattan uses to disintegrate matter constructions could radically operate differently on a BEC.



But the set of matter? There is nothing to suggest Dr. Manhattan is limited in anyway on any regular matter no matter the matter (pun?). If a person asserts that Superman would be immune to Dr. Manhattan's matter disintegration ability, than the burden of proof is on those gentlemen (or lady) to show that Superman can resist Dr. Manhattan's matter disintegration technique.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Kotor3
You are starting to sound like a child. You said he needed, I say he didn't how is that a lie? So if Superman receives help he needs it?

Alright this conversation is over. Yes, when he couldn't mount any defense on his own. Are you slow ?

Kotor3

quanchi112
This is horrible logic. If you feel the tactic can't work then you need to prove it. It's like saying I'm so strong cutting off my air supply won't kill me because I'm so powerful.

Epicurus
Originally posted by dadudemon
Dr. Manhattan is functionally a god. He doesn't belong in threads like these.
So is the Silver Surfer. Doom was able to perform insane shit with his power, and he had nowhere near the level of experience with the Power Cosmic as the Surfer did.

Epicurus
Originally posted by Robtard
Agreed. Manhattan could matter manipulate the rest. The only one who has a possible chance of harming Manhattan is the Surfer via his suicide attack that destroyed Galactus, but that won't matter.
The Surfer was seen floating space in the post-credits, alive and well. So it's not a "suicide" attack.

juggerman
But it does, at the very least, KO him. So that would end in him taking himself out of the fight and losing or, at best, stalemating.

Kotor3
Ok. I read up on Manhattan. It seems that they made him indestructible with no real weaknesses. The only thing superman could do is go back in time and take out Manhattan before he becomes Dr. Manhattan. Otherwise there is nothing he could do to hurt him that I see.

So I have agree no more Manhattan in my versus thread.

Epicurus
Originally posted by juggerman
But it does, at the very least, KO him. So that would end in him taking himself out of the fight and losing or, at best, stalemating.
He would have killed every other opponent before that happens. And even if Manhattan can reform from that attack, there's no saying how long it'll take him to do so, as it definitely took him some time to reform from being disintegrated by Ozy's machine.

Either ways, Surfer is the last man standing here.

juggerman
Manhattan would reform and it was shown that it only takes him moments to do so after being completely destroyed. He wins

Arachnid1
Originally posted by Kotor3
Or Superman uses his speed to distort time and send Manhattan to the stone age.

Or Superman sucks up Manhattan essence fly to the Sun and blows Manhattan into the Sun. Manhattan could perceive time as fast or as slow as he needs. I don't remember the quote, but Supermans speed wont save him because he will be vaporized before he has the chance to do anything with it.

And having a reality bender in your lungs, even if that would actually work, would not work out well for Supes. Supes cant hurt Manhattan, he cant contain him, and has no way to stop him at all. Its mindblowing that any of you think Supes stands any kind of chance here.

Epicurus
Originally posted by juggerman
Manhattan would reform and it was shown that it only takes him moments to do so after being completely destroyed. He wins
When did Manhattan showcase the ability to reform from an exotic energy being destroying attack?

It didn't take him moments to reform from Adrian's attack.

Kotor3
Originally posted by Arachnid1
Manhattan could perceive time as fast or as slow as he needs. I don't remember the quote, but Supermans speed wont save him because he will be vaporized before he has the chance to do anything with it.

And having a reality bender in your lungs, even if that would actually work, would not work out well for Supes. Supes cant hurt Manhattan, he cant contain him, and has no way to stop him at all. Its mindblowing that any of you think Supes stands any kind of chance here.

I'm guessing you didn't see my latest post. Anyway, the only thing I disagree with in your post is that superman speed wouldn't be a factor. Doesn't Manhattan have issues with things that move faster than light?

Robtard
Originally posted by Epicurus
The Surfer was seen floating space in the post-credits, alive and well. So it's not a "suicide" attack.

IIRC, we only see the board floating, as a hint that the Surfer could be alive.

But I watched the film long ago.

juggerman
Originally posted by Epicurus
When did Manhattan showcase the ability to reform from an exotic energy being destroying attack?

It didn't take him moments to reform from Adrian's attack.

He survived the only know thing that does him any damage/harm at all and he was no worse for ware.

It did take him moments and not only did he return easily he had full control of his power and turned into a giant just to intimidate Ozy

dadudemon

Kotor3
Originally posted by dadudemon
I'll save you time.


He has no weaknesses except large amounts of tachyon emissions. Even then, the only negative effect it has is causing Manhattan to lose his ability to see all potential realities.

Yes I posted that I read up on Manhattan. Manhattan wins because the only thing I can think of superman doing is turning back time to when Dr. Manhattan was human.

I am not using him in versus threads anymore since he has no known weaknesses that can destroy him.

Kotor3
Originally posted by dadudemon

When did Silver Surfer showcase immunity to being vaporized?

Exactly.

I am not saying that he cannot but this argument has been used and stated as a definite for Manhattan to use on Superman, Thor, and Surfer.

What exactly has Manhattan done that shows that he can vaporized beings that like him can travel through space especially one that can create a rift in space and time with his own body and survive (Superman)?

In the movies Thor Hammer brought him back to life. It seems that the only way to kill Thor would be to destroy his hammer. I am not sure can that be done?

dadudemon
Originally posted by Kotor3
What exactly has Manhattan done that shows that he can vaporized beings that like him can travel through space especially one that can create a rift in space and time with his own body and survive (Superman)?

Simple: he can literally atomize matter.

So, it does not matter what kind of matter someone is made out of: they will atomize. smile

The Silver Surfer is an organic being. Not even adamantium would stand up to being atomized at the atomic level. Nothing can.


The burden is not on the Manhattan supporters who say he can atomize matter: that was already seen on screen multiple times. The burden is on those claiming that the other characters have a special immunity shield to Manhattan's powers. That's so extremely specific as to be laughable: that's clearly not the case.


Here is what it amounts to:

Normal Child 1: Let's play Army!

Stupid Child: K.

Normal: Okay, I have 10 army tanks, 50 missile launchers, and 2 bombers fully loaded with 2000 pound bombs.

Stupid: I have anti-army tank shields, anti-missile shields, and anti-bomber shields. I also have a nuclear bomb.

Normal: O rly? Derp.

DrDeadpool
Ok i make this clear for everyone here.

Superman and Thor are non factors here.

Now lets compare Dr Manhattan and silver surfer.

Dr Manhattan can manipulate matter on a SUB ATOMIC level , can return from absolute nothingness ... ok i don't have to write anymore power since those two are enough for anyone who is made of matter , silver surfer has shown some great powers i mean really great but unfortunately he is made of matter sad and none of his powers can destroy Dr Manhattan so i give this to Dr.

DrDeadpool
Originally posted by Kotor3
I'm guessing you didn't see my latest post. Anyway, the only thing I disagree with in your post is that superman speed wouldn't be a factor. Doesn't Manhattan have issues with things that move faster than light?

Although i don't remember Superman having near light speed in superman return let alone to faster than light ( which is a middle finger to physics big grin ) but that doesn't matter since Superman's speed ( light speed or not ) wont help him why ? because Dr Manhattan said he can witness fast and tiny events which he is referring to sub atomic particles that can move at near light speed and its logical because for manipulating matter he has to move electrons from their orbitals to a higher or a lower orbital and electrons are moving at near light speed and have a VERY complicated way of moving (read about Uncertainty principle) but still Dr Manhattan can move them.

Kotor3
Originally posted by dadudemon
Simple: he can literally atomize matter.
So, it does not matter what kind of matter someone is made out of: they will atomize. smile

The Silver Surfer is an organic being. Not even adamantium would stand up to being atomized at the atomic level. Nothing can.


The burden is not on the Manhattan supporters who say he can atomize matter: that was already seen on screen multiple times. The burden is on those claiming that the other characters have a special immunity shield to Manhattan's powers. That's so extremely specific as to be laughable: that's clearly not the case.

Yes I got it, Matter is Matter.

Basically your comment is the same as everyone else who says Manhattan can vaporized them. I have not read a comment where someone has said that anyone would be immune to Manhattan powers. I personally have shown recognition to those statements as a possibility. My point is that I hear comments that Dr. Manhattan could do this in a flash.

That is like saying that Steel can be bent in the same amount of time as rubber. A tank and a human mass is not the same as Superman, Thor, or Surfer. The burden of proof in on those who say that Thor, Superman, and Surfer would just be vaporized. Unless you have an example of Dr. Manhattan doing this to something of similar mass the comment is absurd.

There are many attacks that either of the other components could do that would prevent Dr. Manhattan from completing his vaporization technique.

Kotor3
Originally posted by DrDeadpool
Although i don't remember Superman having near light speed in superman return let alone to faster than light ( which is a middle finger to physics big grin ) but that doesn't matter since Superman's speed ( light speed or not ) wont help him why ? because Dr Manhattan said he can witness fast and tiny events which he is referring to sub atomic particles that can move at near light speed and its logical because for manipulating matter he has to move electrons from their orbitals to a higher or a lower orbital and electrons are moving at near light speed and have a VERY complicated way of moving (read about Uncertainty principle) but still Dr Manhattan can move them.

Superman I and II he moves faster than light. Especially when he turns back time.

Epicurus
Originally posted by dadudemon
I'll save you time.


He has no weaknesses except large amounts of tachyon emissions. Even then, the only negative effect it has is causing Manhattan to lose his ability to see all potential realities.

No-Limits-Fallacy. He has never faced another being on the same level as he is for us to gauge just how difficult it is to kill him.

In the Silver Surfer, he faces exactly that type of challenge.

Also, coincidentally the Surfer also shares that tachyon weakness as a tachyon pulse is the only known way so far to separate him from his board. Basically speaking, Manhattan is a surferless, blue-colored version of the Silver Surfer.
Originally posted by dadudemon

Except he's not. He's vaporized with a thought.

Ignorant statement. The Surfer's own Jupiter-sized Galactus-busting explosion didn't kill him, what makes you think Manhattan can?

Don't bring up matter manip, because the Surfer can do that as well. The Surfer can manipulate his molecules as seen whenever he's phasing through matter and even energy-based forcefields. That and the fact

Originally posted by dadudemon

When did Silver Surfer showcase immunity to being vaporized?

When he survived an attack which destroyed an energy-based entity that dwarfed the whole of planet Earth.
Originally posted by dadudemon

Exactly.
Not really. Ignoring context and casually employing no-limits-fallacies isn't the same as proving a point with facts and evidence.

The Surfer's powerset is almost the exact same thing as Manhattan's. His far better feats from the movies are what give him the definitive edge against Osterman in this and any other Surfer vs Manhattan based thread.

dadudemon
Originally posted by Epicurus
No-Limits-Fallacy. He has never faced another being on the same level as he is for us to gauge just how difficult it is to kill him.

In the Silver Surfer, he faces exactly that type of challenge.

Also, coincidentally the Surfer also shares that tachyon weakness as a tachyon pulse is the only known way so far to separate him from his board. Basically speaking, Manhattan is a surferless, blue-colored version of the Silver Surfer.

You're committing the no-limits fallacy (by claiming Surfer has immunity to Manhattan's vaporizing ability) and violating the MvF Golden Rule because that resistance was not seen on screen. You're faultily assuming they magically posses some sort of magical shield against an atomizer when nothing seen on screen demonstrates that.

You already knew that was my argument so I am not sure why you would make a point that I have already destroyed.



Originally posted by Epicurus
Ignorant statement. The Surfer's own Jupiter-sized Galactus-busting explosion didn't kill him, what makes you think Manhattan can?

Stupid statement. A bullet can kill a professional boxer but it does not deliver anymore inertia than a slap to the face while a professional boxer can punch someone so hard in the face that it breaks facial bones. Atomizing someone will certainly kill them no matter how much power they have.

Originally posted by Epicurus
Don't bring up matter manip, because the Surfer can do that as well. The Surfer can manipulate his molecules as seen whenever he's phasing through matter and even energy-based forcefields. That and the fact


Here's the problem with your stupid (again) argument is:
1. You must prove that the surfer has immunity to Manhattan's atomizing ability.
2. #1 wasn't seen on-screen and therefore, cannot be proven, so your argument fails from the onset.
3. Even if they were equal in their ability to manipulate matter (they are not...not even close), Manhattan can reform himself and Surfer cannot.


Originally posted by Epicurus
When he survived an attack which destroyed an energy-based entity that dwarfed the whole of planet Earth.


Again, irrelevant. That literally does nothing at all to support Surfer's case. Surfer could have blown up 500,000,000 galaxies at once and that still would not matter because he's made of matter, is mortal, and has no immunity to Manhattan's abilities. See point #3, again. smile

Originally posted by Epicurus
Not really. Ignoring context and casually employing no-limits-fallacies isn't the same as proving a point with facts and evidence.

Seriously, I know you are you but what am I?

Originally posted by Epicurus
The Surfer's powerset is almost the exact same thing as Manhattan's.

No it's not. no expression

And even if they were extremely similar, please refer to #3. smile


Originally posted by Epicurus
His far better feats from the movies are what give him the definitive edge against Osterman in this and any other Surfer vs Manhattan based thread.


Which would be very dumb, hard-headed, stupid, and childish of you. But that's just part for the course with you, always. wink


But, who cares, right? You got to argue with people on the internet and think you're incorrectly right, yet again? WHEEEE!

Epicurus
Originally posted by dadudemon
You're committing the no-limits fallacy (by claiming Surfer has immunity to Manhattan's vaporizing ability) and violating the MvF Golden Rule because that resistance was not seen on screen. You're faultily assuming they magically posses some sort of magical shield against an atomizer when nothing seen on screen demonstrates that.

You already knew that was my argument so I am not sure why you would make a point that I have already destroyed.

WTF are you talking about? I already provided evidence which showcases Surfer's durability and the fact that how his own matter manip capabilities counteract Manhattan's control over atomic structure. That's not a no-limits-fallacy. A no-limits-fallacy is saying that Manhattan can survive an exotic energy attack which kills planet-sized energy beings.
Originally posted by dadudemon

Stupid statement. A bullet can kill a professional boxer but it does not deliver anymore inertia than a slap to the face while a professional boxer can punch someone so hard in the face that it breaks facial bones. Atomizing someone will certainly kill them no matter how much power they have.

laughing out loud If the bullet is fired at someone's face, it does far worse damage than a boxer bunching the very same face.. It all depends on the caliber of the bullet, the aim etc. How the heck do you even atomize a being who can easily manipulate his own atomic structure? Bullshit logic is bullshit logic.

Originally posted by dadudemon

Here's the problem with your stupid (again) argument is:
1. You must prove that the surfer has immunity to Manhattan's atomizing ability.
2. #1 wasn't seen on-screen and therefore, cannot be proven, so your argument fails from the onset.
3. Even if they were equal in their ability to manipulate matter (they are not...not even close), Manhattan can reform himself and Surfer cannot.

You do this every time. Make a baseless and retarded argument(like that dumb million ton-force dupe calc you did for twilight vamps) and when pointed out the utter oafishness of said argument, put earplugs in your ears and just go into a repeat mode of "No you!" responses.
1. The Surfer can survive an attack capable of killing an energy being, which means it is utterly dumb to claim that atomizing could have even the least bit of effects on him.
2. Completely and utterly false. We saw that he could survive an attack which theoretically transcends atomization aka destroying energy itself. Which defies the very laws of thermodynamics.
3. I agree that they aren't close, since the Surfer has far better feats, what with drilling holes through the Earth, phasing through forcefields and whatnot. Heck, Doom with his rudimentary knowledge of the Power Cosmic was capable of creating storms, telekinetic power etc.

Heck, if anyone actually even has a legit "atomization" feat, it's the Surfer based on how he casually deconstructed and then reconstructed Doom right down to the very last atom, and without his metallic defect.

All that Manhattan ever did was blow people up in a flash of blue light. An incendiary bomb or a landmine could do what Manhattan did, in a less flashier manner obviously. What the Surfer performed during his encounter with Doom was actual manipulation of matter, a feat which Manhattan never duplicated throughout the movie on anyone but himself. And it took him several unsuccessful to get it right the first time(when he first reconstructed his body).

Reed specifically noted that the Surfer's powerset gave him complete control over matter and energy. All onscreen. Which you will ignore, like the dimwit you are.

Originally posted by dadudemon

Again, irrelevant. That literally does nothing at all to support Surfer's case. Surfer could have blown up 500,000,000 galaxies at once and that still would not matter because he's made of matter, is mortal, and has no immunity to Manhattan's abilities. See point #3, again. smile

Of course it is irrelevant, since it completely undermines your argument.

laughing out loud Do you realize how utterly stupid that sounds? Manhattan, the overhyped featless wonder is now above galaxy-busting powersets? Get off that crack asap, bud.

What proof do you have that the Surfer is mortal(him being incapable of committing suicide tells us otherwise)? The Surfer has his own matter manip which can easily counteract Manhattan's attempts to control him. The Surfer was impervious to Sue Storm's forcefields. It seems that you never saw the FF movie and are making up over 90% of the bs you spout about the Surfer in this thread.
Originally posted by dadudemon

Seriously, I know you are you but what am I?

Apart from indirectly and unwittingly telling me that you're a highly inept debater, and the forum loon, what exactly are you trying to say here? Forgive me, but I don't exactly speak retard.

Originally posted by dadudemon

No it's not. no expression

And even if they were extremely similar, please refer to #3. smile

Yes it is, and the Surfer has considerably better feats than building a fragile structure which a human can collapse with a single strike or merely teleporting people around.

Just watch the goddamned movie before you make another ignorant rant in this thread.
Originally posted by dadudemon

Which would be very dumb, hard-headed, stupid, and childish of you. But that's just part for the course with you, always. wink


But, who cares, right? You got to argue with people on the internet and think you're incorrectly right, yet again? WHEEEE!
facepalm

What a dumbass, lol.

Either debate the point or just exit from the discussion altogether. I have neither the patience nor the time to engage in pointless flamewars.

dadudemon
Originally posted by Epicurus
WTF are you talking about? I already provided evidence which showcases Surfer's durability and the fact that how his own matter manip capabilities counteract Manhattan's control over atomic structure. That's not a no-limits-fallacy. A no-limits-fallacy is saying that Manhattan can survive an exotic energy attack which kills planet-sized energy beings.

No you didn't.

Again:

Here's the problem with your stupid (again) argument is:
1. You must prove that the surfer has immunity to Manhattan's atomizing ability.
2. #1 wasn't seen on-screen and therefore, cannot be proven, so your argument fails from the onset.
3. Even if they were equal in their ability to manipulate matter (they are not...not even close), Manhattan can reform himself and Surfer cannot.

You're committing the no-limits fallacy (by claiming Surfer has immunity to Manhattan's vaporizing ability) and violating the MvF Golden Rule because that resistance was not seen on screen. You're faultily assuming they magically posses some sort of magical shield against an atomizer when nothing seen on screen demonstrates that.


Originally posted by Epicurus
laughing out loud If the bullet is fired at someone's face, it does far worse damage than a boxer bunching the very same face.. It all depends on the caliber of the bullet, the aim etc. How the heck do you even atomize a being who can easily manipulate his own atomic structure? Bullshit logic is bullshit logic.

Fail. You not only missed my point entirely, you proceeded, while faultily assuming you were contradicting me, to actually prove my point with my example. The bullet, despite the fact that it carries much much less energy than a punch, kills the person. The punch does not. Here's what you were supposed to take away from that: Just because the energy used to vaporize matter is much less than a planet sized explosion, does not mean that Silver Surfer is immune to and it also does not mean Surfer can magically withstand it, either. Because you appear to have missed the point so severely and utterly, I'll explain it more clearly: the gun and bullet is Manhattan and the Boxer is Surfer.


Originally posted by Epicurus
You do this every time. Make a baseless and retarded argument(like that dumb million ton-force dupe calc you did for twilight vamps)

Contradict that argument, good sir! I welcome you to do so. You can't. It's pretty standard physics. smile Until then, stop whining about it because it is quite obvious you're a sore loser about it.

Originally posted by Epicurus
and when pointed out the utter oafishness of said argument, put earplugs in your ears and just go into a repeat mode of "No you!" responses.

No, that's what you do. I bet you I could find at least 5 people that would agree with me, troll. smile


Originally posted by Epicurus
1. The Surfer can survive an attack capable of killing an energy being, which means it is utterly dumb to claim that atomizing could have even the least bit of effects on him.
2. Completely and utterly false. We saw that he could survive an attack which theoretically transcends atomization aka destroying energy itself. Which defies the very laws of thermodynamics.
3. I agree that they aren't close, since the Surfer has far better feats, what with drilling holes through the Earth, phasing through forcefields and whatnot. Heck, Doom with his rudimentary knowledge of the Power Cosmic was capable of creating storms, telekinetic power etc.

Fail. None of those actually contradict anything I've stated.
1. "energy being" is completely and entirely irrelevant to the fact that Surfer is made of matter, is mortal, and can be atomized by Manhattan.
2. And I quote again: "1. You must prove that the surfer has immunity to Manhattan's atomizing ability. 2. #1 wasn't seen on-screen and therefore, cannot be proven, so your argument fails from the onset." Let me make it more clear: Manhattan's ability to atomize matter is indistinguishable from magic.
3. "Derp. He drilled holes." K. And a cheap imitation of Manhattan's power left massive craters all over the earth. Or did you forget about that?



Originally posted by Epicurus
Heck, if anyone actually even has a legit "atomization" feat, it's the Surfer based on how he casually deconstructed and then reconstructed Doom right down to the very last atom, and without his metallic defect.

How cute. You actually think you've made a superlative point.

Dr. Manhattan would like a word with you about the scale of transmutation and matter reconstruction:

http://www.morethings.com/fan/watchmen/manhattan-watchmen-160.jpg

Originally posted by Epicurus
Reed specifically noted that the Surfer's powerset gave him complete control over matter and energy. All onscreen. Which you will ignore, like the dimwit you are.

And yet, that just wasn't true as seen onscreen. Exaggerated statements made by characters who, within the context of the movie, are almost entirely ignorant of characters, mean jack. This is part of why we have the MVF Golden Rule. It's because people like you looove to make idiotic statements like the above.


Originally posted by Epicurus
Of course it is irrelevant, since it completely undermines your argument.

laughing out loud Do you realize how utterly stupid that sounds? Manhattan, the overhyped featless wonder is now above galaxy-busting powersets? Get off that crack asap, bud.

What proof do you have that the Surfer is mortal(him being incapable of committing suicide tells us otherwise)? The Surfer has his own matter manip which can easily counteract Manhattan's attempts to control him. The Surfer was impervious to Sue Storm's forcefields. It seems that you never saw the FF movie and are making up over 90% of the bs you spout about the Surfer in this thread.

You typed a whole bunch of stuff to just concede my point, towards the end. You do realize how childish you appear pretty much all the time, right? Whine, stomp your feet, yell, scream, and shit yourself all you want. Pretending a point of mine does not exist just to concede it at the end is hilarious. Dance more, please.


Also, lol@You asking for proof that Surfer was mortal.


Originally posted by Epicurus
I have no idea what you are meaning here because I am simply missing your point, entirely, again. This happens frequently between myself and other posters. Forgive me, but I don't exactly know what you meant.

What you said...applies to you, not me. That's what "I know you are but what am I?" means. sad


Originally posted by Epicurus
Yes it is, and the Surfer has considerably better feats than building a fragile structure which a human can collapse with a single strike or merely teleporting people around.

Just watch the goddamned movie before you make another ignorant rant in this thread.

facepalm

What a dumbass, lol.

Either debate the point or just exit from the discussion altogether. I have neither the patience nor the time to engage in pointless flamewars.

I did not engage in a flamewar with you. Not even a little. But you did with the name calling. You could improve your debating style to be less troll-y.


Edit -

As soon as the fight starts, this is what happens to all the opposing side:

http://youtu.be/oeFZXNDz7uA?t=1m26s

Note that Dr. Manhattan says he can change almost anything (anything but human nature). That's a much more qualified statement that Reed's ignorant statement regarding Surfer. smile

Epicurus
Originally posted by dadudemon
No you didn't.

Again:

Here's the problem with your stupid (again) argument is:
1. You must prove that the surfer has immunity to Manhattan's atomizing ability.
2. #1 wasn't seen on-screen and therefore, cannot be proven, so your argument fails from the onset.
3. Even if they were equal in their ability to manipulate matter (they are not...not even close), Manhattan can reform himself and Surfer cannot.

Yes I did.

1. Already did, at least 3 times in the previous post.
2. It was, you never saw the movie so that's not my problem. Manhattan never atomized anyone either. Atomizing people doesn't leave blood and skeletal remains. Think.
3. I agree they aren't close, as the Surfer completely outclasses Manhattan based on screen feats. You Manhattan fanboys sure have a strange way of wanking your fave character to no end.
Originally posted by dadudemon

You're committing the no-limits fallacy
hysterical

Irony in its finest form.

Originally posted by dadudemon

Fail. You not only missed my point entirely, you proceeded, while faultily assuming you were contradicting me, to actually prove my point with my example. The bullet, despite the fact that it carries much much less energy than a punch, kills the person. The punch does not. Here's what you were supposed to take away from that: Just because the energy used to vaporize matter is much less than a planet sized explosion, does not mean that Silver Surfer is immune to and it also does not mean Surfer can magically withstand it, either. Because you appear to have missed the point so severely and utterly, I'll explain it more clearly: the gun and bullet is Manhattan and the Boxer is Surfer.

No, I understood your argument better than you yourself did, confused little bugger that you are. Again, you're missing important factors when claiming that a bullet kills a person, most important of which is that it's not always the case. Often times people pass out due to shock and internal bleeding from a bullet wound, some people who are tough can still go tickin' even after taking a lickin' from a gunshot. If a bullet is aimed at the face however, the moment of impact is much higher than delivered by any human punch. It's enough to shatter bone, seriously damage tissue, and result in near 100% chance of death, as opposed to punches which only causes a little bit of swelling at most, and only marginal bone damage at best resulting in a KO.

In terms of the kinetic energy output, no amount of you Fight Science style dupe physics can convince a sane and rational mind that a punch has more energy than a bullet.

laughing out loud Manhattan never vaporized matter. I think you don't know how energy transfer works based on this ignorant statement. Not to mention the entity whom the Surfer destroyed was made of energy, so what that bodes for Manhattan, I'll let you decide.
Originally posted by dadudemon

Contradict that argument, good sir! I welcome you to do so. You can't. It's pretty standard physics. smile Until then, stop whining about it because it is quite obvious you're a sore loser about it.
Outputting a large amount of exotic energy which seemingly violates the very laws of thermodynamics(far beyond any feat we've seen from Osterman) is better than performing fake-atomization.
Originally posted by dadudemon

No, that's what you do. I bet you I could find at least 5 people that would agree with me, troll. smile

"No you". Argumentum ad populum. You are the very embodiment of a self-contradictory piece of befuddled fallacy, ddm.
Originally posted by dadudemon

Fail. None of those actually contradict anything I've stated.
1. "energy being" is completely and entirely irrelevant to the fact that Surfer is made of matter, is mortal, and can be atomized by Manhattan.
2. And I quote again: "1. You must prove that the surfer has immunity to Manhattan's atomizing ability. 2. #1 wasn't seen on-screen and therefore, cannot be proven, so your argument fails from the onset." Let me make it more clear: Manhattan's ability to atomize matter is indistinguishable from magic.
3. "Derp. He drilled holes." K. And a cheap imitation of Manhattan's power left massive craters all over the earth. Or did you forget about that?

1. And again I ask; where is your proof that he is mortal, and that that Manhattan can counteract the Surfer's own control over his body on the atomic scale? Energy being is wholly relevant, since it is a feat far beyond what Manhattan showed on screen.
2. Of course you quote and requote your words like the awful troll you are, no matter how many times I disprove your stupid red herrings, non-sequiters and outright lies as badly as Gregor Clegane squished Martell's face like a water balloon.
3. 200 meter wide holes which went across the planet. Again, the scale of that feat is far beyond anything Manhattan did. Lol, it destroyed a few cities, which is nowhere near as big as drilling holes that go straight through the core of the planet.



Originally posted by dadudemon

How cute. You actually think you've made a superlative point.

Considering that I actually provided an atomic scale matter manip feat, it's another plus point for me and zero for you.
Originally posted by dadudemon

Dr. Manhattan would like a word with you about the scale of transmutation and matter reconstruction:

http://www.morethings.com/fan/watchmen/manhattan-watchmen-160.jpg

LOL at this retard bringing up Manhattan building a glorified sand castle. Which got destroyed by a peak human girl no less. Awful.
Originally posted by dadudemon

And yet, that just wasn't true as seen onscreen. Exaggerated statements made by characters who, within the context of the movie, are almost entirely ignorant of characters, mean jack. This is part of why we have the MVF Golden Rule. It's because people like you looove to make idiotic statements like the above.

Reed Richards was a science prodigy and the world's top genius in that movie. His intellect would put Ozymandias to shame. But let's go ahead and claim that his statements are false exaggerations despite the Surfer's onscreen feats validating them, and making up bullshit feats to give the featless wonder Dr Manhattan a chance against his biggest competition in this thread.
Originally posted by dadudemon

You typed a whole bunch of stuff to just
Show you what a bumbling oaf you are. Which isn't something I've achieved for the first time either, coincidentally.
Originally posted by dadudemon

Also, lol@You asking for proof that Surfer was mortal.

Yes, I want proof. Unless you're confusing him without the board, in which case you're a bigger nut than previously believed.
Originally posted by dadudemon

What you said...
Wasn't penned down in retard, which appears to be your mother tongue.
Originally posted by dadudemon

I did not engage in a flamewar with you.
Blatant lie.
Originally posted by dadudemon

Edit -

As soon as the fight starts, this is what happens to all the opposing side:

http://youtu.be/oeFZXNDz7uA?t=1m26s

Note that Dr. Manhattan says he can change almost anything (anything but human nature). That's a much more qualified statement that Reed's ignorant statement regarding Surfer. smile
laughing out loud So he blows up an ordinary human and suddenly we're supposed to take his self-stated hyperbole at face value?

And just a few posts ago you ignorantly claimed that Reed Richards' claims were exaggerated. roll eyes (sarcastic)

I honestly wonder if you have even the remotest grasp of the concept of irony. If you did, you wouldn't write shit like this above. Which is an insult to the collective intelligence of humankind.

dadudemon
Every last one of your arguments has already been destroyed and contradicted. Just re-read my posts for your replies. smile

Originally posted by dadudemon
No you didn't.

Again:

Here's the problem with your stupid (again) argument is:
1. You must prove that the surfer has immunity to Manhattan's atomizing ability.
2. #1 wasn't seen on-screen and therefore, cannot be proven, so your argument fails from the onset.
3. Even if they were equal in their ability to manipulate matter (they are not...not even close), Manhattan can reform himself and Surfer cannot.

You're committing the no-limits fallacy (by claiming Surfer has immunity to Manhattan's vaporizing ability) and violating the MvF Golden Rule because that resistance was not seen on screen. You're faultily assuming they magically posses some sort of magical shield against an atomizer when nothing seen on screen demonstrates that.




Fail. You not only missed my point entirely, you proceeded, while faultily assuming you were contradicting me, to actually prove my point with my example. The bullet, despite the fact that it carries much much less energy than a punch, kills the person. The punch does not. Here's what you were supposed to take away from that: Just because the energy used to vaporize matter is much less than a planet sized explosion, does not mean that Silver Surfer is immune to and it also does not mean Surfer can magically withstand it, either. Because you appear to have missed the point so severely and utterly, I'll explain it more clearly: the gun and bullet is Manhattan and the Boxer is Surfer.




Contradict that argument, good sir! I welcome you to do so. You can't. It's pretty standard physics. smile Until then, stop whining about it because it is quite obvious you're a sore loser about it.



No, that's what you do. I bet you I could find at least 5 people that would agree with me, troll. smile




Fail. None of those actually contradict anything I've stated.
1. "energy being" is completely and entirely irrelevant to the fact that Surfer is made of matter, is mortal, and can be atomized by Manhattan.
2. And I quote again: "1. You must prove that the surfer has immunity to Manhattan's atomizing ability. 2. #1 wasn't seen on-screen and therefore, cannot be proven, so your argument fails from the onset." Let me make it more clear: Manhattan's ability to atomize matter is indistinguishable from magic.
3. "Derp. He drilled holes." K. And a cheap imitation of Manhattan's power left massive craters all over the earth. Or did you forget about that?





How cute. You actually think you've made a superlative point.

Dr. Manhattan would like a word with you about the scale of transmutation and matter reconstruction:

http://www.morethings.com/fan/watchmen/manhattan-watchmen-160.jpg



And yet, that just wasn't true as seen onscreen. Exaggerated statements made by characters who, within the context of the movie, are almost entirely ignorant of characters, mean jack. This is part of why we have the MVF Golden Rule. It's because people like you looove to make idiotic statements like the above.




You typed a whole bunch of stuff to just concede my point, towards the end. You do realize how childish you appear pretty much all the time, right? Whine, stomp your feet, yell, scream, and shit yourself all you want. Pretending a point of mine does not exist just to concede it at the end is hilarious. Dance more, please.


Also, lol@You asking for proof that Surfer was mortal.




What you said...applies to you, not me. That's what "I know you are but what am I?" means. sad




I did not engage in a flamewar with you. Not even a little. But you did with the name calling. You could improve your debating style to be less troll-y.


Edit -

As soon as the fight starts, this is what happens to all the opposing side:

http://youtu.be/oeFZXNDz7uA?t=1m26s

Note that Dr. Manhattan says he can change almost anything (anything but human nature). That's a much more qualified statement that Reed's ignorant statement regarding Surfer. smile

Originally posted by dadudemon
You're committing the no-limits fallacy (by claiming Surfer has immunity to Manhattan's vaporizing ability) and violating the MvF Golden Rule because that resistance was not seen on screen. You're faultily assuming they magically posses some sort of magical shield against an atomizer when nothing seen on screen demonstrates that.

You already knew that was my argument so I am not sure why you would make a point that I have already destroyed.





Stupid statement. A bullet can kill a professional boxer but it does not deliver anymore inertia than a slap to the face while a professional boxer can punch someone so hard in the face that it breaks facial bones. Atomizing someone will certainly kill them no matter how much power they have.




Here's the problem with your stupid (again) argument is:
1. You must prove that the surfer has immunity to Manhattan's atomizing ability.
2. #1 wasn't seen on-screen and therefore, cannot be proven, so your argument fails from the onset.
3. Even if they were equal in their ability to manipulate matter (they are not...not even close), Manhattan can reform himself and Surfer cannot.





Again, irrelevant. That literally does nothing at all to support Surfer's case. Surfer could have blown up 500,000,000 galaxies at once and that still would not matter because he's made of matter, is mortal, and has no immunity to Manhattan's abilities. See point #3, again. smile



Seriously, I know you are you but what am I?



No it's not. no expression

And even if they were extremely similar, please refer to #3. smile





Which would be very dumb, hard-headed, stupid, and childish of you. But that's just part for the course with you, always. wink


But, who cares, right? You got to argue with people on the internet and think you're incorrectly right, yet again? WHEEEE!


Edit - You might want to town down the insults. I'm reporting your posts. You may not be aware that there is a difference between calling a point dumb and calling a person dumb.

Kotor3
I have yet to see one valid argument showing that Dr. Manhattan can vaporized any of his components here.

'Dr. Manhattan can manipulate matter' seems to be the great argument for Dr. Manhattan supporters.

dadudemon
Originally posted by Kotor3
'Dr. Manhattan can manipulate matter' seems to be the great argument for Dr. Manhattan supporters.

A better quote, which is taken directly from the screen, is "I can chance almost anything...except for human nature."]

Any fool can destroy life but it takes a god to create life.

Kotor3

dadudemon
Originally posted by Kotor3
Also thank you for all the quotes and no examples. I can produce quotes also for the other characters. Some examples to support your argument would be nice.

No problem! He left earth to go do God-stuff: create life. Not something Surfer could do. smile

Kotor3

Epicurus
Originally posted by dadudemon
Every last one of your arguments has already been destroyed and contradicted. Just re-read my posts for your replies. smile
Lol at destroyed. You haven't shown a single feat to prove your point. All's you've done is repeat garbage hyperbole, which actually applies more to the Silver Surfer than that blue hermaphrodite.
Originally posted by dadudemon
You may not be aware that there is a difference between calling a point dumb and calling a person dumb.
Not when a dumb person makes said dumb points. Which you're a perfect example of, ddm.thumb up

Epicurus
Originally posted by dadudemon
A better quote, which is taken directly from the screen, is "I can chance almost anything...except for human nature."]

Any fool can destroy life but it takes a god to create life.
He never created any life. laughing out loud

Surfer on the other hand revived a dead superhuman. Manhattan couldn't even cure Janey Slater of her cancer. Instead he chose to hide and sulk on Mars like an overgrown blue baby.

Some godlike uberness that is, which gets your dick wet.

dadudemon
Originally posted by Epicurus
He never created any life. laughing out loud

Awww. How sad for you that you missed the part where that's what he does at the end of the movie. sad

Originally posted by Epicurus
Surfer on the other hand revived a dead superhuman. Manhattan couldn't even cure Janey Slater of her cancer. Instead he chose to hide and sulk on Mars like an overgrown blue baby.

Some godlike uberness that is, which gets your dick wet.

It's also very sad that you missed some character development. Curing her cancer was well within his power: it would have been child's play. Why do you think he chose to not cure her cancer and, instead, abandoned the earth?

Keep in mind that he is almost omniscient in ability (meaning, he knows he didn't cause her cancer and he knew she was to get cancer).



If you cannot even understand the simple points of the movie, you cannot debate them. You must walk before you can run.

DrDeadpool
Originally posted by Kotor3
I have yet to see one valid argument showing that Dr. Manhattan can vaporized any of his components here.

'Dr. Manhattan can manipulate matter' seems to be the great argument for Dr. Manhattan supporters.

There is no logical reason to think otherwise , science tells us that someone who can control sub atomic particles is the king of matter , Superman is no different than a regular man when it comes to being made of matter !

DARTH POWER
But Surfer manipulates matter and energy as well.

Kotor3

Arachnid1
Nevermind, this thread has gone on a bit too long for my interests.

DrDeadpool
That's not a good analogy when it comes to sub atomic world , what you are talking about is molecular structure of something but electrons and protons are the reason for different mass and qualities , once someone passes molecular structure and get to the sub atomic world things will work differently and also Superman has no way of hurting Dr Manhattan since he can phase through matter

psycho gundam
i have to side with the notion that manipulation surfer's intrinsic field for the easy win isn't entirely concrete. surfer can manipulate his own molecular structure somehow while moving quite rapidly so quick draw isn't even in manhattan's favor either. it just seems dubious

dadudemon
Originally posted by psycho gundam
i have to side with the notion that manipulation surfer's intrinsic field for the easy win isn't entirely concrete. surfer can manipulate his own molecular structure somehow while moving quite rapidly so quick draw isn't even in manhattan's favor either. it just seems dubious

Hmm. I respect your opinions so I may reconsider.


I just don't view Manhattan's seemingly magical ability as something anyone can block including himself (pretend an evil clone was made: I don't see Manhattan being able to even block himself....but Manhattan will be able to just reform himself over and over).

Kotor3

DrDeadpool

Kotor3

Time Immemorial
The reeves time travel argument is a big fail on many levels. I don't know why people love to debate that point. One of the biggest plot holes ever made made by him, further more he only turned back time for a few minutes? How would he know the exact time Jon was born and be able to find him and kill him? He can't.

Time travel fail.

Manhatten wins

Epicurus
Originally posted by dadudemon
Awww. How sad for you that you missed the part where that's what he does at the end of the movie. sad

"I think maybe I'll create some."

I was unaware that self-speculation on a character's part now counted as an actual feat.
Originally posted by dadudemon
It's also very sad that you missed some character development.
Character development doesn't equate to power development. Manhattan's character is a cliched "A God Am I" trope anyways.
Originally posted by dadudemon
Curing her cancer was well within his power: it would have been child's play.
Making baseless claims without any proof whatsoever is well within your ability.

But still, while we're at it, do go ahead and explain exactly what in the movie indicates that Manhattan could actually solve the problem her biology presented.

Heck, let alone cancer, if his control over matter is even half as good as you're wanking it to be, he would have suspended her aging process since that was exactly the reason why they grew apart.

But I forget I am talking to the oaf who relies on dupe calculations, made-up feats and outright lying to support his favorite character.
Originally posted by dadudemon

Why do you think he chose to not cure her cancer and, instead, abandoned the earth?

Um, because he couldn't? This would be obvious to even a 6 year old child, but comparing you to a 6 year old intelligence wise is insulting said 6 year old.

In fact, now that we're at it, explain to me why he didn't lobotomize Rorschach or just erase his memories instead of killing him? Because his matter manip is way below average, and not even close to what the Surfer can do. All that Manhattan is capable of is blowing people up in a blue flash of light, just like how you blow your Manhattan action figure in private.
Originally posted by dadudemon

Keep in mind that he is almost omniscient in ability (meaning, he knows he didn't cause her cancer and he knew she was to get cancer).
Lol, what a f*cking idiot. He isn't omniscient, and he admits that outright in the movie itself.

And his precognitive abilities were blocked during that time period anyways. He couldn't see his future, so he had no way of knowing that he wasn't responsible for her disease.
Originally posted by dadudemon

If you cannot even understand the simple points of the movie, you cannot debate them. You must walk before you can run.
Lol, irony at its finest. It's like arguing with a f*cking Creationist at this point.

You also haven't addressed the Surfer reviving Sue Storm from death. Which is a feat Manhattan couldn't achieve in his wildest dreams.

Epicurus
Originally posted by psycho gundam
i have to side with the notion that manipulation surfer's intrinsic field for the easy win isn't entirely concrete. surfer can manipulate his own molecular structure somehow while moving quite rapidly so quick draw isn't even in manhattan's favor either. it just seems dubious
It's not about being entirely concrete or not; it's not concrete to begin with. People are arguing Manhattan's powerset instead of actual feats shown onscreen and dismissing the Surfer's feats entirely, and claiming that Manhattan's matter manip can affect other matter manipers based on literally no evidence whatsoever.

NemeBro
Originally posted by Epicurus
Character development doesn't equate to power development. Manhattan's character is a cliched "A God Am I" trope anyways. "If there's a God, I am nothing like him."
- Doctor Manhattan

Epicurus
Originally posted by NemeBro
"If there's a God, I am nothing like him."
- Doctor Manhattan
A great non-sequiter. Anything else?

dadudemon
Originally posted by Epicurus
"I think maybe I'll create some."

I was unaware that self-speculation on a character's part now counted as an actual feat.

Character development doesn't equate to power development. Manhattan's character is a cliched "A God Am I" trope anyways.

Making baseless claims without any proof whatsoever is well within your ability.

But still, while we're at it, do go ahead and explain exactly what in the movie indicates that Manhattan could actually solve the problem her biology presented.

Heck, let alone cancer, if his control over matter is even half as good as you're wanking it to be, he would have suspended her aging process since that was exactly the reason why they grew apart.

But I forget I am talking to the oaf who relies on dupe calculations, made-up feats and outright lying to support his favorite character.

Um, because he couldn't? This would be obvious to even a 6 year old child, but comparing you to a 6 year old intelligence wise is insulting said 6 year old.

In fact, now that we're at it, explain to me why he didn't lobotomize Rorschach or just erase his memories instead of killing him? Because his matter manip is way below average, and not even close to what the Surfer can do. All that Manhattan is capable of is blowing people up in a blue flash of light, just like how you blow your Manhattan action figure in private.

Lol, what a f*cking idiot. He isn't omniscient, and he admits that outright in the movie itself.

And his precognitive abilities were blocked during that time period anyways. He couldn't see his future, so he had no way of knowing that he wasn't responsible for her disease.

Lol, irony at its finest. It's like arguing with a f*cking Creationist at this point.

You also haven't addressed the Surfer reviving Sue Storm from death. Which is a feat Manhattan couldn't achieve in his wildest dreams.

You tried and failed because you lacked fundamental understanding of the film (or books) and it is reflected in your continued ignorance.

But let's be honest: You actually know what's up but pretend not to to troll.

You still haven't presented a case for Surfer's ability to resist Manhattan's powers. I have presented a case for Manahattan resisting Surfer's powers (he can just reform if destroyed).

Therefore, the argument defaults to Manhattan. Take your loss with dignity instead of continuing to throw a fit.

Kotor3
Originally posted by Epicurus
But still, while we're at it, do go ahead and explain exactly what in the movie indicates that Manhattan could actually solve the problem her biology presented.

Heck, let alone cancer, if his control over matter is even half as good as you're wanking it to be, he would have suspended her aging process since that was exactly the reason why they grew apart.
In fact, now that we're at it, explain to me why he didn't lobotomize Rorschach or just erase his memories instead of killing him? Because his matter manip is way below average, and not even close to what the Surfer can do. All that Manhattan is capable of is blowing people up in a blue flash of light, just like how you blow your Manhattan action figure in private.
You also haven't addressed the Surfer reviving Sue Storm from death. Which is a feat Manhattan couldn't achieve in his wildest dreams.

You bring up some good points about Manhattan. Even superman could have taken Rorschach memories away like he did with Louis.

NemeBro
Originally posted by Epicurus
A great non-sequiter. Anything else? Just that you're ignorant of Manhattan's character.

Surfer does beat him though.

Epicurus
Originally posted by NemeBro
Just that you're ignorant of Manhattan's character.
"It(intrinsic field machine) didn't kill Osterman, did you really think it could kill me?

I have walked across the surface of the sun, witnessed events so tiny and fast that they could be said to not have occurred at all. But you Adrian, you're just a man. And the world's smartest man poses no more a threat to me than does its smartest termite."

While he doesn't refer to himself as a god per se in this quote, that clearly is something which one would ascribe to the "A God Am I" trope.

Epicurus
Originally posted by dadudemon
You tried and failed because you lacked fundamental understanding of the film (or books) and it is reflected in your continued ignorance.

But let's be honest: You actually know what's up but pretend not to to troll.

You still haven't presented a case for Surfer's ability to resist Manhattan's powers. I have presented a case for Manahattan resisting Surfer's powers (he can just reform if destroyed).

Therefore, the argument defaults to Manhattan. Take your loss with dignity instead of continuing to throw a fit.
The books follow a radically different plot as compared to film. And I am guessing you haven't read Before Watchmen either, as far as books go.

And as far as books do go, you don't want to get into a debate against comic Surfer's feats, dude.

I have. The Silver Surfer survived his own Galactus-buster attack, despite being at the epicenter of it. That level of power is way beyond anything Manhattan showed in either the movies or the comic books.

No it doesn't. Manhattan is one of the most overrated and overhyped herald-level characters in fiction. A little hyperbole here and there, and his fanboys pretend as if he's an Abstract or some sh1t.

Based on actual feats, Surfer mercs him.

Time Immemorial
Surfer does have a big buster move that takes him out in the process. Which is a bigger output then we have seen from Manhatten. How will it kill DM though? As he has no real way to die. I have not seen anything from SS to take DM down definitively though. I can think of a lot of ways DM could down SS though. Surfer was outsmarted by earths smartest person, as Manhatten stated earth smartest human is no more a threat to him then earth smartest terminte. Showing the insignificance of humans to him. I think its safe to assume he could outsmart SS as well.

dadudemon
Originally posted by Epicurus
I have. The Silver Surfer survived his own Galactus-buster attack, despite being at the epicenter of it. That level of power is way beyond anything Manhattan showed in either the movies or the comic books.


You haven't. We did not actually see the Silver Surfer after the explosion. And I noticed you did not address the point I made in my post (the actually only point I made) that destroys your position, utterly. Stop being a turd and concede. You know I'm right.

Kotor3
Originally posted by Time Immemorial
The reeves time travel argument is a big fail on many levels. I don't know why people love to debate that point. One of the biggest plot holes ever made made by him, further more he only turned back time for a few minutes? How would he know the exact time Jon was born and be able to find him and kill him? He can't.

Time travel fail.

Manhatten wins

He clearly knew when to stop before Louis die so as to rescue her. He did not just go back at a random time. If that was the case he would have had to rescue everyone else that he did previously.

dadudemon
Originally posted by Kotor3
He clearly knew when to stop before Louis die so as to rescue her. He did not just go back at a random time. If that was the case he would have had to rescue everyone else that he did previously.

Well, personally, I think that Manhattan vapes Superman, Thor, and Silver Surfer right when the fight starts because none of them have a magical resistance to his vaping ability.

Kotor3
Originally posted by dadudemon
Well, personally, I think that Manhattan vapes Superman, Thor, and Silver Surfer right when the fight starts because none of them have a magical resistance to his vaping ability.

I know you feel that way.

I have yet to see any proof that he can just vaporize them. I believe his powers will work but not immediately. Not before one them attacks him.

Lets go with Thor here. I am not sure Manhattan powers would work on Thor's hammer.

All matter is not the same. You are making it out like Manhattan can destroy a star like he can a human because it is made of matter.

That is ridiculous. Even if he could it wouldn't take the same amount of time.

dadudemon
Originally posted by Kotor3
I know you feel that way.

I have yet to see any proof that he can just vaporize them.


I already posted evidence: a video showing how the vaping works. He just vapes them like any other being composed of matter.

Originally posted by Kotor3
All matter is not the same. You are making it out like Manhattan can destroy a star like he can a human because it is made of matter.

I do not see why he couldn't. But pretend he can't because it's too big...

Here's the problem with thinking he can't because a star is too big: he can just duplicate himself enough times until he has as many copies of himself needed to blow up the star. As soon as he has enough, he then destroys the star.

Being a Demi-god has its benefits. smile

Kotor3

dadudemon

Kotor3

dadudemon

Lestov16
Do you have any solid evidence that Thor, Supes, and Surfer have different quantum fields than normal matter? Hell, you could describe Surfer as being a solidified vulnerable form of Jon in terms of power and weakness. In fact tachyons weaken him far FAR more than they do Doc. They rendered him utterly powerless, whereas they only block Doc's precog, which won't matter. Doc is thus clearly on another level. Supes going superluminal only obstructs his precog, which won't matter. Thor has done nothing to show he is on Doc's scale.

The most important thing of all here is that they are all limited to physical attacks, which Doc can phase through or regenerate from. Doc on the other hand has a viable method of winning, which is only opposed by claims of the team having alternate quantum fields which have no onscreen merit.

Epicurus
Originally posted by dadudemon
You haven't.
I have. Pretending otherwise is foolhardy and immature, which just so happens to be your MO, dadudetroll.
Originally posted by dadudemon

We did not actually see the Silver Surfer after the explosion.
bhgxtDajLP4
laughing out loud, what an ignorant squab.
Originally posted by dadudemon
And I noticed you did not address the point I made in my post (the actually only point I made) that destroys your position, utterly. Stop being a turd and concede. You know I'm right.
Which point is this again? Reiterate and I'll destroy it as I've been doing for the last several pages with the rest of your Manhattan-cum-covered arguments.

Epicurus
Originally posted by dadudemon
He has constructed very large and complicated objects, so we know the "solidness" of an object is not an issue, nor is scale. smile
He built a glorified sand castle, which got destroyed by a human female. With a single punch no less. laughing out loud

I am beginning to suspect that Manhattan's blue dong is the sole reason why you're so ardently supporting him in this thread.

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