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Note: All battles take place in the Geonosis Arena.

1. Asajj Ventress
2. TCW Maul
3. Count Dooku
4. Darth Vader
5. HoT
Boss: The Sith Emperor

Gets full rest in between fights. How far shall he go?

I'd say Vader takes him out. Though I'm kind of leery about Dooku tbh.

I think he stops at four or six. Not quite sure.

Clears.

I think he has a good chance of clearing this.

Wtf, he's not beating the Hero or Vitiate.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Wtf, he's not beating the Hero or Vitiate.

Probably not Vitiate, in retrospect. But he rapes HoT.

Lol, no.

HoT is basically Revan, except not a total loser.

Revan is a god, as long as Drew isn't writing him. Chris Avellone's Revan TK'd HoT into the sun.

Avellone's Revan is less powerful than the Exile, who the HoT would whooooop.

Goes down to three. I think Revan is more powerful than Dooku, but Dooku's saber mastery would give him the edge.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Avellone's Revan is less powerful than the Exile, who the HoT would whooooop.


LOLNOPE.

Loses at 4 or 5.

Revan vs Dooku is always one of Revan's most difficult fight because his strengths in combat are not all present against Dooku, for Dooku is similar to Revan in combat. However with that being said, Revan still has a *much* larger array of Force powers he can utilize on Dooku, and the fact that if according to Drew that Malak is actually Revan' superior in lightsaber combat, it shows as proof Revan can overcome those through his superior Force abilities and precognition prowess. Ultimately, there is nothing Dooku possesses that Revan can ultimately fall to more then that Revan possesses that Dooku can be killed from. Revan takes Dooku with high difficulty.

Traya refers to Mando Revan-Darth Revan in such, she never met KotOR Revan and cannot gauge his strength accurately.

Avellone's Revan gives Revan a nearly unparalleled stance in military strategy and raw power, along with his greatest lightsaber feats. That being said, Drew's Revan demonstrates Revan has a high-tier Jedi with excellent and unique Force abilities. However, Drew adds to Revan's table his strongest or weakest factor: his limits. Avellone implies through Malak's dialogue on the Star Forge, Traya, and his own commentaries, that Revan is nearly "invincible". Drew however makes the statement that he can be defeated by someone in the likes of an amped/preped Vitiate, who still himself was capable of soloing the Dark Council. Personally, I feel the combination of both of them brings Revan the most respect he deserves. Also, does anyone have Avellone's email? I would really like to have a chat with him about Revan some time.

Avellone's Revan in action:
"You continue to amaze me, Revan. If only you had been the one to discover the true power of the Star Forge, you might have became truly invincible."
―Darth Malak (Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic)

Drew wrote Kotor I, not Avellone.

Just taking Kotor I and II into account, the Exile is still better than Revan.

I know, but Avellone did the game mechanics.

Except she isn't. One quote by Traya implying to not even KotOR Revan does not deem Exile the greater then Revan has the better feats and accolades.

No, he didn't.

Originally posted by Nephthys
No, he didn't.
My mistake, I'm getting mixed up with KotOR 2.
However, who did the game mechanics for the first one. It wasn't Drew, right?

Ha, found his email! [email protected]

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Except she isn't. One quote by Traya implying to not even KotOR Revan does not deem Exile the greater then Revan has the better feats and accolades.

The Exile has better feats.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
My mistake, I'm getting mixed up with KotOR 2.
However, who did the game mechanics for the first one. It wasn't Drew, right?

Drew only does writing. It would be some programmer who did mechanics.

Except she doesn't. Beating a Traya who can't use giga and a highly weakened Nihilus with aid is not better then smacking Malak down 7 times. And Revans run on the star forge was far superior to the Exiles short run on Malachor V.

Revan had allies with him, the Exile didn't. Plus Malachor is a stronger nexus AND had the MSG.

Traya > Malak too.

Revan fought at least 5 times the amount she fought, and when I played I had allies...?

Traya without drain is not Malaks superior in combat. In pure comparison of power? Sure. In a fight? No.

Dead at two

Loses at 3 and on.

Originally posted by carthage
Dead at two

Get banned.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Probably not Vitiate, in retrospect. But he rapes HoT.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Loses at 3 and on.
He can beat Dooku.

He can. Doesn't mean he will.

He *will* more times or equal to of the amount Dooku can beat him.

He will not.

Dooku has nothing Revan doesn't.
Revan has things Dooku doesn't.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Dooku has nothing Revan doesn't.
Revan has things Dooku doesn't.

The same can be said for many people against Yoda, and he can still kick their asses into the next century.

Kreia said the Exile was her greatest student. Not her most powerful. Either way, the Exile is described as average on her own, so that's neither here nor there.

Not true at all.
Yoda possesses speed, lightsaber abilities, and Force powers nearly none can handle.
The difference is that for what Dooku has, Revan can handle.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Kreia said the Exile was her greatest student. Not her most powerful. Either way, the Exile is described as average on her own, so that's neither here nor there.
Not to mention Revan Reborn>>>>>>Revan during his time as Kreia's student

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Not true at all.
Yoda possesses speed, lightsaber abilities, and Force powers nearly none can handle.
The difference is that for what Dooku has, Revan can handle.

Oh, if that's what you mean, then Dooku has going toe-toe-toe with the greatest Jedi swordsman who ever lived over Revan, who beat the guy who was one-shotted by Mandalore.

Likewise, Revan has nothing Dooku can't handle as well.

Or you mean Revan, the one who defeated one of the most powerful Sith Lords in history, and while otherwise Dooku was beaten by a group of pirates.

Not true. Revan has all the classic KotOR powers that are never used in later eras like Drain or Mind-****ery (Talzin did it to Dooku). Plus he has the classic tutuminis, barrier, expert heal, force scream, force whirlwind, etc.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Kreia said the Exile was her greatest student. Not her most powerful. Either way, the Exile is described as average on her own, so that's neither here nor there.

The Exile was described as average by Vrook, who's an assh*le, talking about her before the Mandalorian Wars. Kavar actually says the Exile was talented.

Which is irrelevant in both cases since she became much greater in Kotor II then she was previously and solo'd a Sith Academy. And Kreia was talking about her abilities in combat when she called her her greatest student.

We've never seen Revan canonically use Drain in combat, and even if he did Dooku is a possessor of the Quel-Droma immunity, and has handled the Dark Reaper.

Tutaminis will do nothing of importance. Almost every PT Jedi can use barrier. Force healing is another common power. Force Scream is involuntary, and I can't see it being very useful either. Force Whirlwind is useless against Dooku unless you actually think Revan could simply ragdoll him.

And lol @ comparing Malak to Yoda.

KotOR era is infamous at using drain in combat. Even the Dark Jedi do it. And Revan does it immediately before a fight in a cutscene while extremely weakened..
You have yet to prove to me in two years Dooku is immune to Drain.
Yes he worked the Dark Reaper, but he would not have been in the radius of the drain blast, merely behind the controls.

Not to Revan's level.

It is, but not to the point of Revan's prowess at it.

If Revan is capable of scoring a TK hit on Vitiate, he can get some on Dooku.

Like I said, Dooku has the normal Lightning, Choke, TK all Sith do.
Revan has all that plus dozens of more force powers, like FLS. They are nearly the same, their pros and cons equally the others out, just Revan has the edge due to that regard.

Dooku and Revan are about equal imo. Dooku has an edge with sabers and Revan has an edge with the Force.

Dooku would give him trouble up close, but Revans TK, lightning and his Force in Balance horseshit will also give Dooku trouble too.

I'd think Revan would edge it though maybe.

Only Nihilus has done this to any significant effect. Malak was able to apply it, but it wasn't a game changing move, there was no great effect.

The point I was making was not only is it difficult to apply in combat, but that Revan simply never uses it. And that cutscene is the non-canon Dark Side choice.



Revan has absolutely no barrier feats.



True, so if Revan gets battered or hit by lightning he may be able to heal himself, but it's not like it's going to be a difference if he loses an arm or a head. This is also assuming Dooku gives him the opportunity to do this.



Pushing Vitiate, and lifting him off the ground and suspending him in the air are two very different things.



Dooku has controlled Krayt Dragons telepathically, and created Dark Side manifestations (Very similar to Vitiate's "clones" according to the databanks, and has studied several ancient Sith Holocrons, including Andeddu's.

Dooku remains to have infinitely better dueling feats, and his capabilities with the Force's main combative applications are no lesser than Revan's , and that's why he's Revan's superior.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Dooku and Revan are about equal imo. Dooku has an edge with sabers and Revan has an edge with the Force.

Dooku would give him trouble up close, but Revans TK, lightning and his Force in Balance horseshit will also give Dooku trouble too.

I'd think Revan would edge it though maybe.

I agree that Revan probably has the Force edge. While technically Dooku's TK/Lightning feats are better than Revan's on the whole, there's not much he's done that I find Revan incapable of doing just as well or better. And as Ant mentioned, being a practitioner of both the light and dark, he has a greater range of abilities to counter with. And the Balance of the Force move is pretty devastating in it's own right, while not outright deadly.

I still find Dooku's feats of skill to be superior by a significantly greater margin than Revan's Force abilities, though. Revan has some cool stuff to his name, though, like his Echani-type precognition, his ass-kicking of Vitiate's personal guard, and fighting through the Sith Academy. It'd be a good fight.

Originally posted by Nephthys
The Exile was described as average by Vrook, who's an assh*le, talking about her before the Mandalorian Wars. Kavar actually says the Exile was talented.

Nope. It wasn't Vrook. Vrook called her a failure of a Jedi. Master Vandar called her average, and he is anything but an "assh*le."

In KotOR II she doesn't become greater in anything. The Masters flat out tell you that she only grew stronger from the Force bonds she formed with so many Force Sensitives. And as to what Kreia was describing, she says nothing of the sort. She says that by killing her you have done her the greatest service. It's all in her plan of killing the Force.

Dark Jedi have used it to. Hell, even the apprentices.

Nope. It is actually the Light Side. In the Dark Side the other guy dies.

*motions to the Foundry*

Lol. As if Dooku won't spare Revan a second. In the PT fights, they always have breaks in between several slashes.

They are both telekinesis.

That's Beast Control. Jolee can do that.

Is that still canon?

And Revan studied more.

I died a little. Your joking, right? "Infinitely?" I don't even know why I even debate with you. Dooku has no feats like the mass slaughter on the Star Forge, and able to stay alive against Yoda for a little bit is not as impressive as smacking down one of the most powerful Sith Lords in history 7 times in a row.

Revan can handle Dooku's sabers with his Force.
Dooku can handle Revan's Force with his sabers.
That is why they are nearly equals, but the difference is, Dooku will fall to Revan's Force more then Revan will fall to Dooku's sabers.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Nope. It wasn't Vrook. Vrook called her a failure of a Jedi. Master Vandar called her average, and he is anything but an "assh*le."

I don't remember Vandar ever even showing up in Kotor II. It's been a while though and its pretty pointless so who cares.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
In KotOR II she doesn't become greater in anything. The Masters flat out tell you that she only grew stronger from the Force bonds she formed with so many Force Sensitives. And as to what Kreia was describing, she says nothing of the sort. She says that by killing her you have done her the greatest service. It's all in her plan of killing the Force.

You mean other than the fact that she learns several lightsaber forms in minutes and masters various Force powers instantly, drains power from hundreds of slain opponents and yes, draws on the strength of nearly half a dozen Jedi? The Exile herself says that shes gotten more powerful. Solo'ing a Sith Academy, defeating Sion 5 times in a row and beating Kreia twice, all on one of the greatest darkside nexuses in existence, proves she's no average chump.

No, Kreia calls you "greater than any I have ever trained" right after you defeat her.

Interesting...So people think that Vader can beat Revan? I remember the consensus being the opposite a few months ago...

She trained Mando Wars Revan, not KotOR Revan.

Are you even listening? I said to significant effect, which neither the apprentices nor Malak have done.



Well for one, that's not a barrier, that's a Force Protection bubble. For two, he has no feats with it, just that he has the ability. Three, even though Cade used this ability to it's utmost extent, it never ended up being useful in combat as much as warding off explosions and the like.



Yes, there are breaks in the combat, but it isn't going to go on forever with Dooku letting Revan recuperate every time he gets injured now.



Kay. Sora Bulq pushed Mace through a cave, so I suppose he can simply rag doll him whenever now. Seems legit.



Is Revan?

Isn't it a little silly to call this out when you use the database in your arguments every other day?



Because you'd have no incentive if you didn't.



The likes of Antares Draco and Shado Vao do.



Well for one, we've argued the 7 times in a row bullshit and you weren't able to prove that.

And for two, even if that were the case, it's still better regardless!



Wat? Uh, no, Revan handles Dooku's sabers with his saber, it'd be difficult with the Force.



Wat? Uh, you can't exactly defend against Force attacks with a lightsaber, unless it's like lightning or something.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
She trained Mando Wars Revan, not KotOR Revan.

Don't. Care.

I think Revan could take Tyranus with difficulty.

Revan is superior in the force while Tyranus is superior as a duelist, however Revan's tactical ingenuity is a factor that must be considered.

With Revan's tactical foresight, he could immerse himself in the fight, and use his lightsaber abilities in conjunction with the force to prevent Tyranus from scoring a hit on him with his blade. With his tactical mind and planning, he could find the proper ways and opportunities to lash out at Tyranus with the force.

This is why I believe Revan takes Tyranus down with difficulty.

They were able to preform Force Drain in the middle of combat, that alone proves my argument.
You also ignore the mind****ery.

I was unaware there was a difference, but regardless, my point holds. However, both is a "barrier" so to speak.'

They can withstand anything while he is on the brink of death.
That is a feat.

I'm referring to TK.
I don't picture Revan getting injured anymore then Dooku is, especially with his precognition and accuracy.

There is a difference between scoring a TK hit and ragdolling.
Obviously Revan can't ragdoll Dooku, but he can get some hits.

You miss the point.
You call me out he has never shown the ability in combat, so prove Dooku has, along with the quote of the clones.

Like I said, no they don't. The most they have ever beaten were two dozen. Revan beat like a dozen per door. Let's get serious now.


Prove what? That he regenerated his power? That's canon. We debated if he smacked him down at no health.

Except it isn't!

You know what I mean't.
Revan can balance it out with his Force prowess while Dooku can with his sabers. Except Revan has the edge via intelligence and precognition.

Precisely.

u9UgQPFUQDA

5:33

Vrook and Vandar on the Exile.

Okay. It doesn't really help Revan's case, though.



Because Revan has never done it to anyone notable.



There's a massive difference actually, I was going to mention that about your Respect Thread but I forgot.



What?



I don't know where this came from...?



You do know that Revan isn't the only person that can use precognition, and that Sith as a standard use the dark side to cloud their opponent's precog?



Well whirlwind is equivalent to a spinning rag doll, so if he can't rag doll Dooku I don't know why you brought it up.



I will, PM me about it later. I have it on a notepad on my PC, right now I'm on a Mac I bought a couple days ago. It's very nice.



There were just less than two dozen on panel, and considering they were fighting from their ship, into where the Sith were keeping the Princess prisoner, back to their ship, there's no way every Sith was caught on the two pages of panel that showed that.

Also, your dozen at a door thing is nothing but your ridiculous speculation. There were "dozens" total according to your quote, not hundreds.



Exactly, he used the Jedi lunch boxes to sustain his stamina, reserves, health, etc. But these 7 Jedi are just Jedi. Malak draining one of them wouldn't restore him nearly to full strength, unless he's really that pathetic.

Again, the fight was extended significantly because Malak could sustain himself off the life Forces of others, and he was already stronger than usual, but it's not like a game where he goes around whacking Malak to death 7 times. As you said, let's get real.



Is!



I don't see how Revan's military genius would stack up in a one on one duel with someone as formidable as Dooku, and you are really stretching the whole precognition thing out of proportion.

It'd be a good fight, I've also concluded that Revan is likely the greater Force User of the two while Dooku is the better duelist. The difference is that I find the difference in their Force Mastery to be slim, while the difference in their talents with a blade is significant.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I don't remember Vandar ever even showing up in Kotor II. It's been a while though and its pretty pointless so who cares.

You're point was that him being an ass made the statement bias.

Various Force powers? Herself or from Kreia? Either way knowing a lot of powers has nothing to do with strength, nor does it show how she's better than anyone.

Not her power.

From the bonds, not herself.

She's still using those bonds, including the one she still had with Kreia.

What point was this proving. The Exile being alive was the most potent danger she could ever pose to the Force. Kreia would not know of what would come after for the Exile, due to her nature, so she would know nothing of the Exile's wound healing later. Either way, that statement has nothing to do with power level.

Learn to read. I said that Revan *doesn't* use it in combat, and that nothing suggests it would have a game-changing effect on the battle if he did.



Which is why I mentioned Dooku's mastery of beast control (which he has displayed to a far greater level than Jolee), and his ability to produce Dark Side manifestations, to prove that he too has a variety of abilities he's honed during his years.



I'll... Take a look later then, I guess?



It's a "Force Protection Bubble" which while not as applicable in standard combat, is a much more advanced power than a simple barrier.



You using the fact that Revan beat a non-force sensitive Echani as supreme evidence of his victory against Dooku is not very convincing.



They both have their pros and cons.



Stop trolling, as if in two pages they could show all the Sith faced throughout the Academy besides a mere 6.

Also, thinking about it, if you're slaughtering hordes of these fodder Sith guys in the dozens, I really don't think there's any difference as far as skill goes for killing 30 and killing 20 more afterwards really. I guess it speaks for stamina to keep going, but the skill factor is the same.


'

The fact that it said there were dozens of Sith on the Forge twice means absolutely nothing, and nothing else contradicts me.

Also, I've never said there's less than 42-72 Dark Jedi killed by Revan/co., but I doubt it's any more than that.



It's definitely not.




For one, this is speculation. For two, Malak is amped by a Dark Side Nexus even greater than Lehon, it would still be immensely pathetic if one of those Jedi could fill most of his Force Reserves.



Extreme hyperbole. If that were the case, he couldn't have possibly been surprised by anything Vitiate threw at him.

Even better, he would have seen Scourge betraying him, getting defeated by the strike team, and Malak's betrayal weeks in advance.



That gap has little to do with favoring one era, largely it's simply that I rate the PT's higher caliber duelists closer to the PT's top tiers than you do based on their feats and accolades. There *is* the fact however, that the EU often has less material on a singular era, and because of this it's harder to judge some of the characters--And I am usually not going to rate a nearly featless character on par with or better than one who has accomplished a lot based on hype alone.

Now, Revan on the other hand has proven that he's in that higher class caliber of duelists, and that is thanks to the threads you've compiled considering before he lacked this. However, I am not under the impression he's better than the likes of Obi-Wan Kenobi, who in turn has been shown to be strictly inferior to Dooku in a duel.



It's because your arguments reek of hyperbole and stretching things to make Revan look good.

Your additions to the Respect Thread and Dueling speculation thread have taken you a very long way, though.

1. You are missing the point. The point is Revan possesses a vast array of deadly Force abilities that demonstrates his superiority to Dooku in Force power.
2. You have only seen two duels with Revan, and in fact, KotOR Prima Guide implies Revan frequently uses it in combat with the statement:
"For best results, try drain life or death field"

I understand that. However, Revan has more abilities, especially of those he can use in combat.

Incorrect. I use the fact he destroys someone who is capable of striking fear in the Empire's most powerful members through it.

Yes, they can, because perhaps those were the only Sith present? Idk. It's just as convincing as your baseless assumptions.

They are not fooder.
How many times must I repeat myself? These guys are stated to be "highly skilled duelists" capable of using Lightning, Drain, Choke, and various other Force abilities in combat while having feats of defeating Jedi Knights. They are a formidable opponent.

She has no reason to make any hyperbole, especially when Chris backs her up with the following:
"The "Echani" were mentioned in Kotor1, and they are also the people responsible for the fighting styles used by Palpatine's Imperial Guard (at least as it's explained in the Expanded Universe, most notably in Crimson Empire, I believe). The Echani rely heavily on hand-to-hand combat and personal shield technology, and they had their asses handed to them by Revan during the Jedi Civil War, because, not surprisingly, there weren't many people able to face Revan across a battlefield and survive the encounter.

With little to go on for K2, we decided to expand the culture with those elements in mind, and even have a member of the Echani be able to join your party - which is responsible for much of the new hand-to-hand fighting feats and animations you'll see in the game, as well as potentially new powers.

Echani are a culture that communicates through battle, and there are many fighting rituals they use when dealing with their own people - and perhaps your character as well. If you wish to gain influence with them, engaging them in sparring matches or combat can earn their respect, their trust, and perhaps more.

The greatest among the Echani are said to be able to read their opponent's moves so well they can predict the path of a battle several seconds, sometimes even minutes in advance, by gauging their opponent's fighting style, heart rate, and their movements in combat. In many ways, the Echani see combat as a rapid dejarik game, calculating feints, attacks, and dodges with a speed that few can surpass.

More on the Echani will be present in the game, but I wanted to talk a little about their origins and their current ties to the Expanded Universe. "
I'm in the belief Revan could not utilize his precognition to those effects due to the sheer Dark Side power on Korriban, and Malak himself states that Revan underestimated Malak, not necessarily meaning he didn't think of it before hand and dismissed it. To be fair, the plot of such was put into play before Revan's hyped precognition.

*cringe*
Well I emailed Chris, hopefully he can persuade you. He puts Revan's lightsaber combat in a *very* high regard.

Glad to here.

Yes, Revan's Force Knowledge is wider than Dooku's, though I don't think it's by as much as you're trying to infer here.



Are you really still trying to pass that off as canon? That's just pathetic, you can't even use those powers in KOTOR in the first place unless you choose the non-canon dark side choices!



The Imperial Guards as an organization threaten the Dark Council, not small platoons. It's an impressive feat nonetheless though, it's faintly reminiscent of the MangaGuards, as they have a quote saying they're superior to most of the Jedi.



It's funny that you're accusing me of making baseless assumptions.

It is an assumption, though, and it's based on the same factor that is always present in comic book feats, and it's that not everything can be captured on the panels. Unless you'd like to argue the fight between Kenobi and A'Sharad was only a few clashes.




They're hardly any different than the One Sith, they may not be fodder to regular Jedi Knights, but they are to the upper class.



This is good, I like the reference to Palpatine's guard, it really binds the universe together in a way.

I still am not convinced this is making him better than Dooku, though.



You're cringing because I put Revan lower than Obi-Wan Kenobi as a lightsaber duelist? You're a madman.

If that is the case, so is the lightsaber prowess.

No. The story itself allows for the ability to do Dark Side choices, hence why in Wookieepedia it says "The events in this section may or may not have been considered canon within the Star Wars Legends continuity." You can use Force Drain and such, that is not non-canon. What IS non-canon is joining Bastila on Lehon, and becoming the Dark Lord by slaughtering most of your crew members.

"When confronted by the Imperial Guard, the mightiest of Sith have laid down their lightsabers and surrendered to the inevitable death offered by a guardsman's electrostaff. Even members of the Dark Council fear the Imperial Guard, though many would die before confessing such a weakness."
It says "a", not "the" or "all".

And I agree with such, but nothing really suggests there were *that* much more from what you say to be for it to be comparable to Revan's feat.

I disagree. They could probably press someone like Qui-Gon Jinn with all there Force abilities.

It's due to the fact you lowball his greatest feat because no PT character share the same, so you try to compare it to other feats despite them being failed attempts. You also lowball the smacking down of Malak 7 times, something Dooku couldn't do.

This is a debate, not a trade.



I was referring to "Even members of the Dark Council feat *the* Imperial Guard".

But yeah, dealing with them as he did is an impressive display of skill. They're like the MagnaGuards of their day.



Right, Revan and his crew killed more Sith than the Legacy guys did. I'm just saying as far as skill goes, if you're killing them in the dozens, stopping short on number doesn't really make the skill feat less impressive. It speaks for Revan's stamina and endurance to be able to go on, but slaughtering dozens of Sith is slaughtering dozens of Sith.



In large numbers they could be a problem for someone like Qui-Gon. Moderate numbers of them would get slaughtered by Jinn, just like the Sith on Coruscant got slaughtered by Zallow, though.



This feat and the PT have absolutely nothing to do with one another. And I don't think this is Revan's best feat, though he has some nice accolades in there.



I've already argued my case on this point, and you have yet to refute it.

And again Malak wasn't smacked down at all, according to Karpyshyn it was a hard and brutal fight.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Clears.

You can't be serious.

Ha. No.
If they beat the "mightest of Sith Lords", they are well above MagnaGuards.

Wrong. Killing that many shows his lightsaber prowess by not being striked down by any of the waves. With each wave, the higher the chances, and to defend and defeat so many of those without dying is incredible.

They would not get slaughtered, let's be serious here. Jinn was nearly defeated by Aurra Sing.
Does Jinn even have a defense against any of their force powers? lol

Yes, a hard and brutal fight thanks to Malak getting back up 7 times.

What was your case?

Manga Guards have rather insane accolades of their own. One off the top of my head said that most Jedi in the Order weren't a match for one of the Mag's.

Shaak Ti was capable of slaughtering like 8.
She would be hard pressed by one Imperial Guard.

Doubt she'd have any more trouble than Revan did.

Also, Shaak Ti has had some difficulty with singular MagnaGuards on more than one occasion in both TCW and CW.

She would have more trouble then the Exile did, lol, and the Exile was pressed.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Manga Guards have rather insane accolades of their own. One off the top of my head said that most Jedi in the Order weren't a match for one of the Mag's.

Aaaand Ahsoka beat 4 at once in the movie. Most of the PT Jedi are shite though, so that's probably accurate.

Lol @ "Manga Guards".

http://i39.servimg.com/u/f39/17/73/92/12/swkoto12.jpg
Yeah, as if Jinn is doing this, theres half a dozen right there, and I have yet to reach the climax ^
Those Sith do Drain, Lightning, Slow, and Telekensis, along with being stated to be "highly skilled" in lightsaber combat. Two of them can press Jinn tbh.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Various Force powers? Herself or from Kreia? Either way knowing a lot of powers has nothing to do with strength, nor does it show how she's better than anyone.

You said she didn't become greater in anything, which is clearly untrue given that she became much more masterful of the Force and much more skilled in lightsaber combat. And she learned many techniques from her crew members.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Not her power.

From the bonds, not herself.

She's still using those bonds, including the one she still had with Kreia.

That's irrelevant. She can still call on that power, so it doesn't matter if it "belongs" to her or anything. You might as well suggest Nihilus or Vitiate are crap because their mighty power is just drained from others. The Exile wields that power so it counts as hers.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
What point was this proving. The Exile being alive was the most potent danger she could ever pose to the Force. Kreia would not know of what would come after for the Exile, due to her nature, so she would know nothing of the Exile's wound healing later. Either way, that statement has nothing to do with power level.

As I said, Kreia makes that statement in response to you beating her in combat and cutting off her hand. She's obviously referring to the Exiles combat skills. She's not just randomly talking about the Exile being greater than anyone shes trained because she can blow up the Force. That doesn't even make sense.

Originally posted by Nephthys
You said she didn't become greater in anything, which is clearly untrue given that she became much more masterful of the Force and much more skilled in lightsaber combat. And she learned many techniques from her crew members.



That's irrelevant. She can still call on that power, so it doesn't matter if it "belongs" to her or anything. You might as well suggest Nihilus or Vitiate are crap because their mighty power is just drained from others. The Exile wields that power so it counts as hers.



As I said, Kreia makes that statement in response to you beating her in combat and cutting off her hand. She's obviously referring to the Exiles combat skills. She's not just randomly talking about the Exile being greater than anyone shes trained because she can blow up the Force. That doesn't even make sense.
1. I'll admit I was being kind of harsh on Surik; I'm sure she learned a lot during KotOR II. I just however have seen none of it translated into TOR.

2. She can't call on it anymore. At least not Kreia's, which I think is where most of her power came from. I don't really see what the big deal is with the Exile being average. The average Jedi proved to be powerful Sith and Dark Jedi during the Jedi Civil War. The Exile not being Space Jesus of her time is why I respect the character a lot more.

3. How doesn't it make sense? If the Exile lives, they'll just become more and more powerful while slowly killing everything in their way. At least that is what she hoped for.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
1. I'll admit I was being kind of harsh on Surik; I'm sure she learned a lot during KotOR II. I just however have seen none of it translated into TOR.

2. She can't call on it anymore. At least not Kreia's, which I think is where most of her power came from. I don't really see what the big deal is with the Exile being average. The average Jedi proved to be powerful Sith and Dark Jedi during the Jedi Civil War. The Exile not being Space Jesus of her time is why I respect the character a lot more.

3. How doesn't it make sense? If the Exile lives, they'll just become more and more powerful while slowly killing everything in their way. At least that is what she hoped for.

1. She's not (alive) in TOR. And regardless, we're only discussing the Exile as written in Kotor II.

2. Why can she not call on it? That's just a theory. And you're forgetting that she absorbs the power of the people she kills, so she'd drain Kreia's power on her death.

3. That has no bearing on her being great. That's not being great, that's being a walking tumor. That's also not what Kreia wanted, or else she'd just let Nihilus do his thing.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
She would have more trouble then the Exile did, lol, and the Exile was pressed.

The Exile was also stomped by Nyriss, who Shaak Ti would defeat in the same circumstances.

Lolwut?

Originally posted by Nephthys
Lolwut?


Nyriss would hammer down Shaak Ti.

Nyriss would beat Dooku, let alone Shaak Ti.

Kicking Galen's Ass>>>>Getting roflstomped by Nyriss

Originally posted by Nephthys
Nyriss would beat Dooku, let alone Shaak Ti.
Wait.
You put Nyriss above Revan?
Wut.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Kicking Galen's Ass>>>>Getting roflstomped by Nyriss
Beating Traya, Sion, and 25 Sith in the same hour>>>>Beating Galen

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Wait.
You put Nyriss above Revan?
Wut.

In lightsabers, yeah.

I mean, Revan is kind of shitty with lightsabers.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Beating Traya, Sion, and 25 Sith in the same hour>>>>Beating Galen

Well, apparently they were shit, then, because in the same novel that she fought those Imperial Guards she got her ass kicked almost as hard as Fisto did against Palpatine when faced with Nyriss.

Someone who was hammering Starkiller isn't going to be on the same level as that.

Loses to Ventress.

I will hunt you down.
I will kill all you know.
And you will never see my coming.
Never speak to me again, especially about Revan.

Originally posted by Nephthys
In lightsabers, yeah.

I mean, Revan is kind of shitty with lightsabers.

Wait, so you think someone who's a shitty duelist can defeat Dooku? Wut?

Well, it looks like you'll be taking the aggro off my hands now. XD

...

So how's that divorce going, buddy?

I'm just busting his balls.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
I will hunt you down.
I will kill all you know.
And you will never see my coming.
Never speak to me again, especially about Revan.

For the record, that feat you like to throw around about Revan killing all those dudes on the Star Forge is worthless since we have no idea if he beat them with lightsabers, instead of the Force which is clearly his specialty.

@Sasukedc. I'm too busy deleting all my diary entries about Neph to worry about that right now. I'll make that my priority tomorrow.

Yet I have provided numerous quotes that specifics he used lightsabers, must I do it again? And you can't hold you own against dozens of Sith without using a lightsaber, you will *need* to defend yourself, unless you are suggesting Revan is *that* good with the Force.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Yet I have provided numerous quotes that specifics he used lightsabers, must I do it again? And you can't hold you own against dozens of Sith without using a lightsaber, you will *need* to defend yourself, unless you are suggesting Revan is *that* good with the Force.

Well obviously he didn't do all of it with the Force and he did use his saber, but the point is that we have no idea how much he did with either. So acting as if he plowed through dozens solo (lol) with his lightsaber skills is wrong since he could have used both the Force and his lightsaber and favored one over the other.

Also yeah, Revan is good enough to defeat swaths of opponents primarily with the Force. Duh.

"The next hour is spent frantically blasting, swiping, and crushing countless Dark Jedi and Sith heavy weapons and elite troopers on your way through the decks of the space station."
―Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic Prima Guide

"Here you encounter a large number of Dark Jedi crowding this thin, lit walkway. Wade into the fray and execute a number of techniques of your choosing, cutting a swath through the assembled troops until all have fallen."
―Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic Prima Guide

"Slash and blast through more foes..."
―Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic Prima Guide

Most of the Dark Jedi are proficient at Force Resistance, and with the amp of the Star Forge, he would be forced to rely primarily on lightsaber combat.

I said that there would obviously be lightsaber combat involved, but its irrelevant if we don't know how much was used. You're seriously getting to Legend levels of stretching here.

If fodder Dark Jedi could resist Revan's force attacks then I guess I really overrated him.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I said that there would obviously be lightsaber combat involved, but its irrelevant if we don't know how much was used. You're seriously getting to Legend levels of stretching here.

If fodder Dark Jedi could resist Revan's force attacks then I guess I really overrated him.

Yeah, I've noticed the stretching too, but I don't think that's the problem in this scenario.

The problem is trying to use a walkthrough guide like that one as a canon description. I don't personally disagree with anything it's saying atm, but something that speaks directly to the player and gives them options on the path to take and references health and force points shouldn't be considered an accurate canon description of an event.

That said, I'm not sure how one would take on this kind of fight primarily with Force Abilities.

The feat itself is highly impressive, do you want me to say it isn't?

But if it's lightsaber combat or not, it can still be used as a demonstration of his combat abilities as a whole. Which in the end is what counts.

They are skilled in Energy and Force Resistance. It really doesn't matter that much who the attacker is, unless the attacks are *that* powerful. Obviously they would have no defense against your Sith powers, but a casual Force push you see frequently in lightsaber combat can be handled, regardless of the user. Of course then again, if Revan is in the need to ragdoll the user, he can do such, but in the middle of combat with dozens swarming him and his companions, he is probably unable to do the casual push everyone can achieve, however same goes for the Dark Jedi. Then again, this is not the same on other worlds. The Star Forge massively amps the Sith there, as Bastila and Malak say time and time again.

UPDATE: Chris replied to my email already, he replies much quicker then Drew does, who I am still waiting a response for from an email 3 weeks ago. Anyway, he said "I always felt Revan was an incredible tactician, and the Echani were awed by his precog and natural skill with tactics"

If you have any questions you want to ask him, just ask me and I'll put them in for the next email. Thanks.

EDIT: However I won't deny, like Drew, he tries to avoid answering questions on Revan's lightsaber abilties, which annoys me because that's what I need the most information on. All he said in terms of my actual question was "Revan’s power level is probably something that the BioWare guys could weigh in with".

So why don't you email higher up of Bioware?

Like who?
Hell, I'll email them all if you give me names.
One is destined to give me the golden "Revan is a master duelist" quote I am determined to get. Once I get that baby, my life is complete.

Ooo, I know what to do. I'll ask if they think he is a "master duelist" and then they will say "yes". Ha. HA. HAHA.
#excited #givemenames #hurryup

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
The feat itself is highly impressive, do you want me to say it isn't?

But if it's lightsaber combat or not, it can still be used as a demonstration of his combat abilities as a whole. Which in the end is what counts.

True.

But it's not a lightsaber feat. It's a combat feat.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
They are skilled in Energy and Force Resistance. It really doesn't matter that much who the attacker is, unless the attacks are *that* powerful. Obviously they would have no defense against your Sith powers, but a casual Force push you see frequently in lightsaber combat can be handled, regardless of the user. Of course then again, if Revan is in the need to ragdoll the user, he can do such, but in the middle of combat with dozens swarming him and his companions, he is probably unable to do the casual push everyone can achieve, however same goes for the Dark Jedi. Then again, this is not the same on other worlds. The Star Forge massively amps the Sith there, as Bastila and Malak say time and time again.

What the fuuuuuuck are you saying? Just having energy and force resistance doesn't make you highly immune to force attacks. It depends on the strength of the user and attacker. Sidious would tear through their pitiful attempts at resisting his attacks like a soggy condom. Revan, being much more powerful than the asshats on the SF, would be more than capable of tossing them around or ragdolling them.

Revan was able to toss meteors at 4 of the top warriors in the Empire while they were all up in his shit. True masters can use the Force in combat.

The SF would amp them just as much in regards to their lightsaber related powers too.

https://twitter.com/swtor

You underestimate the power of the Star Forge and those "highly skilled" Dark Jedi, but quite frankly, I'll concede, since I'm to busy typing an email to 15 BioWare people on Revan's lightsaber abilities.

Then it's not a Force feat either. http://images.killermovies.com/forums/smilies/cartoon/none.gif

Originally posted by NewGuy01
https://twitter.com/swtor
Ew, no.
SWTOR people lowball Revan.
I want the makers of KotOR 2, specifically the one who came up with the "Heart of the Force" quote.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
You underestimate the power of the Star Forge and those "highly skilled" Dark Jedi, but quite frankly, I'll concede, since I'm to busy typing an email to 15 BioWare people on Revan's lightsaber abilities.

Then it's not a Force feat either. http://images.killermovies.com/forums/smilies/cartoon/none.gif

That's the thing, we have know idea how the fight actually went down in canon. So while a feat it's not a very useful one

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
You underestimate the power of the Star Forge and those "highly skilled" Dark Jedi, but quite frankly, I'll concede, since I'm to busy typing an email to 15 BioWare people on Revan's lightsaber abilities.

Then it's not a Force feat either. http://images.killermovies.com/forums/smilies/cartoon/none.gif

OMG, please don't. Stop pestering people to validate your obsession.

I know it's not.

Obsidian no longer has any rights over Revan, so they'd be in trouble with law if they gave the specific information you're looking for.

The SWTOR developers, Bioware, are definitely your best bet.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Ooo, I know what to do. I'll ask if they think he is a "master duelist" and then they will say "yes". Ha. HA. HAHA.
#excited #givemenames #hurryup
I'm a little bit confused. If one of them says yes, but the others say no, doesn't that kinda not work out?

Originally posted by Nephthys
OMG, please don't. Stop pestering people to validate your obsession.


XD I know!

It's useful when you look at combat skill.
Revan chains his lightsaber attacks with his Force attacks, when he uses one he's destined to use the other to take an advantage. Either way, it works in a debate, especially if it's both, which it most likely is.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
I'm a little bit confused. If one of them says yes, but the others say no, doesn't that kinda not work out?

If one says no, he will take that secret to his grave.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Obsidian no longer has any rights over Revan, so they'd be in trouble with law if they gave the specific information you're looking for.

The SWTOR developers, Bioware, are definitely your best bet.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
If one says no, he will take that secret to his grave.
Doesn't that kinda, you know, hurt credibility and therefore statement validity?

Damn, I hate the SWTOR developers. What are the main people I should ask, Neph? (being the SWTOR guy you are)

I was arguing that same thing the other day, actually, when he stupidly admitted it to prove another point.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Doesn't that kinda, you know, hurt credibility and therefore statement validity?
Nah, I only plan on asking one at a time.
I feel they will ask eachother if they got the same email, and that would be awk.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Damn, I hate the SWTOR developers. What are the main people I should ask, Neph? (being the SWTOR guy you are)

What's your problem with SWTOR? They're the cool kids.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66

I feel they will ask eachother if they got the same email, and that would be awk.

I doubt they'd care, it's only natural.

UPDATE, okay, I asked Chris if he was a master duelist, since hes my best shot at it:

"Thank you for replying so quickly, I really appreciate it.
With the recent changes of Disney owning the Star Wars franchise and the declaration that Revan is no longer canon, I don't see much hope in the future for further light on Revan. Your Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords really had the last information on Revan's lightsaber abilities, despite Karpyshyn's novel, since his focused primarily on Revan's Force prowess. Being an expert on Revan yourself, do you consider him a master duelist?
Once again thanks,
Gabe."

I pretend my name is Gabe since I already spammed Drew to much on my four "Ant" emails, and I'm pretty sure he blocked me then.

Why not just sign it? It's not like Karpyshyn has been gossiping about you by name to a guy who he likely doesn't even know.

That's my job, after all. :>

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
It's useful when you look at combat skill.
Revan chains his lightsaber attacks with his Force attacks, when he uses one he's destined to use the other to take an advantage. Either way, it works in a debate, especially if it's both, which it most likely is.

Yeah but my whole point was that, like Lek Kuen said, it's not useful in determining Revans lightsaber skills.

Its basically just like the Trayas Academy feat. I wouldn't use that to try to prove the Exiles swordsmanship is stellar because I have no clue how she beat those Sith.

Nah, my email says my name is "Gabe" lol.

Dude, we already know Revan was a master swordsman. Most of the mythos is. It's not going to prove he can take Dooku in a sword fight.

You said he "kinda sucks".

I know, that's why I'm asking why. Your name isn't remotely close to being Gabe, and as I said--Drew isn't going to be gossiping about you dude, he doesn't even know your name or care, really.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
You said he "kinda sucks".

I was trolling you.

Very effectively, apparently.

I say
"-Ant"
in all my emails to him. Is that not allowed?

I was watching "Good Luck Charlie" at the time of the creation of the email.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I was trolling you.

Very effectively, apparently.

I'm hoping along with his "yes", he will say some more stuff.

Huh, looking at the character you do sorta resemble him... Not.

Why were you watching that show anyway? It's so bad XD

Ahahahahaha, I can't believe you actually took that seriously. He killed an Imperial Guard in 1 hit, of course he's a master swordsman.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66

I'm hoping along with his "yes", he will say some more stuff.

Bioware is going to be the only people that aren't ambiguous as **** about it, though.

Hannah Montana was on next bro.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Ahahahahaha, I can't believe you actually took that seriously. He killed an Imperial Guard in 1 hit, of course he's a master swordsman.

...Would it usually take more than one chop to the neck to kill a human..?

Originally posted by NewGuy01
...Would it usually take more than one chop to the neck to kill a human..?

1 attack.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Ahahahahaha, I can't believe you actually took that seriously.

Didn't you? He's Ant, he's sensitive, don't be so tricky with him, it's mean.

It is mean.
I even texted my one friend about it.

Oh.
Nice.
I thought only I used that thread.
I do admit, I check it out 3 times a day to admire it. It's beautiful.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
It is mean.
I even texted my one friend about it.

You're very vocal about meaningless stuff, like, always. XD

Was this friend someone I've met before, or do you just spread the Forum experience to everyone?

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Oh.
Nice.


See? Isn't that better now?

It was El Patron, despite the fact she probably didn't give a damn. I normally rant to her about my forum life. I tell her lots about Neph and Revan and I think she thinks I'm gay. Then again, I showed her pics of Revan's abs and made her admit he's sexy.

Yes.

I knew it!

http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130531035125/starwars/images/thumb/7/7e/Revan_awakens.png/160px-Revan_awakens.png
Dos abs doe.
Dat muscle tdoe.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
It was El Patron, despite the fact she probably didn't give a damn. I normally rant to her about my forum life. I tell her lots about Neph and Revan and I think she thinks I'm gay. Then again, I showed her pics of Revan's abs and made her admit he's sexy.
LOL El Patron... good memories

She hates you.
At least your not her boyfriend who sent nudes behind her back.
As you could have guessed, he was practically murdered.

She could have him arrested and registered as a sex offender for the rest of his life for that, easily, you know.

Because death is too easy

Interesting. What if he didn't sent them first, and the girl he sent them to sent hers first, then he sent his? That still count?
I won't turn Neph in though, he still holds use for me.

Jokes on you, my phone is too shitty to send pictures!

So you are implying then you don't have an active social life, for if it is to poor to send pictures, you can't have instagram, snapchat, kik, etc, which also implies you are single and sit at home all day eating chips.
So...jokes on you.

I'll turn Neph in because he's a sex offender

Obama would be proud.