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Malak is SF darth Malak, revan is redeemed revan, and end of KOTOR Bastila VS ESB Vader, TFU 2 Galen Marek, and season 3 ventress

Bastila can use her Battle Meditation to booster Revan and Malak like Worror Dowmat did to the Jedi against Darth Bane. With such, Team One has a good chance of winning since it's Season 3 Ventress, but it's still ultimately a coin toss, just one side is weighted a little more then the other.

Vader>Revan
Galen>Malak
Ventress>Bastila

That said, I forgot Battle Meditation's factor...

Ventress insults Bastila, and she being Bastila, tries to saber her...

Even with Battle Meditation, Revan and Malak would be outgunned.

Redeemed Revan (before he was held in stasis and tortured by the Sith Emperor) could beat Galen Marek (who is stronger than Vader, but that's irrelevant).

Malak, however, is far weaker than Revan. There's no way he could take on Vader, Marek, or Ventress, even with Battle Meditation on his side.

It really comes down to Bastila. On her own, her dueling abilities are not that special. But she has a deep, fundamental connection with Revan through the Force. They are stronger together. Her Battle Meditation would help in the beginning of the fight, yet Malak would still fall. Bastila would have to step in.

So then it would be Revan and Bastila vs Vader, Marek, and Ventress. I can't see the former two winning against those odds. Maybe if they only faced Vader and Ventress, but Marek was so strong he almost bested Darth Sidious, who of course is known as the most powerful Sith in Star Wars history.

Ventress would probably die at the hands of Revan near the middle of the fight. Still, I'd have to give this battle to Vader and Marek; together, they are too damn good.

Marek didnt almost best Sidious. he was completely and utterly outmatched.

He actually did beat sid for a while.

nope, Galen was considered "no match" for sids, in the DS ending Sidious stomps Marek, and even in the canon ending Marek dies and Sidious is left unscathed.

The only reason Marek lost was because he sacrificed himself for the people he cared about. Don't you remember when he willingly took the brute force of Sidious' lightning? That was the whole point of his story. Marek grew as a character. It is well known that Marek held the potential to be the greatest Force user in history. He never made it to that point, but he was close. The battle between Sidious and him proves that. He was well adept at absorbing and redirecting energy, which was almost enough to beat the Dark Lord of the Sith. Marek didn't beat him in the end, and I never inferred that he did. But he held his own.

Originally posted by DarknessX7
The only reason Marek lost was because he sacrificed himself for the people he cared about. Don't you remember when he willingly took the brute force of Sidious' lightning? That was the whole point of his story. Marek grew as a character. It is well known that Marek held the potential to be the greatest Force user in history. He never made it to that point, but he was close. The battle between Sidious and him proves that. He was well adept at absorbing and redirecting energy, which was almost enough to beat the Dark Lord of the Sith. Marek didn't beat him in the end, and I never inferred that he did. But he held his own.
Held his own against an unarmed Sidious who was holding back?

Suggesting that a guy who barely beat pre-ANH Vader would come close to matching, "the most powerful sith lord in history," isn't a very convincing standpoint to begin with. Couple that with the fact that Sidious wasn't even hurt and Marek was, well, paste, and that Sidious wasn't giving it his complete all, and that he's canonically no match for Sidious...

When did Sidious ever say he held back against Marek in the final battle? He wanted Marek as an apprentice because of his power. Sidious even said at one point in the game that Marek's strength in the Force could match his one day.

I don't know why it's so hard to believe. I mean, if that's what you want to think, then you are entitled to your opinion. But yeah, Marek almost beat Sidious. And Sidious even asked Marek to kill him. That's how powerful Marek was. He could have striked if Kota hadn't been there to bring him back from the edge of the dark side.

Now, yes. Sidious was just goading him to strike in order to give into his hatred. In all likelihood, Sidious felt confident enough that he could survive, which doesn't change the fact that it was a close battle.

Anyway, we are diverting from the original topic. Sidious isn't in this battle, so it doesn't matter. Marek was a strong Force user. Period. With that in mind, let's keep discussing his power in relation to Revan, Bastila, or Malak, since he would be facing them in this hypothetical scenario.

Originally posted by DarknessX7
When did Sidious ever say he held back against Marek in the final battle? He wanted Marek as an apprentice because of his power. Sidious even said at one point in the game that Marek's strength in the Force could match his one day.

I don't know why it's so hard to believe. I mean, if that's what you want to think, then you are entitled to your opinion. But yeah, Marek almost beat Sidious. And Sidious even asked Marek to kill him. That's how powerful Marek was. He could have striked if Kota hadn't been there to bring him back from the edge of the dark side.

Now, yes. Sidious was just goading him to strike in order to give into his hatred. In all likelihood, Sidious felt confident enough that he could survive, which doesn't change the fact that it was a close battle.

Anyway, we are diverting from the original topic. Sidious isn't in this battle, so it doesn't matter. Marek was a strong Force user. Period. With that in mind, let's keep discussing his power in relation to Revan, Bastila, or Malak, since he would be facing them in this hypothetical scenario.
Marek even admitted that Sidious was holding back and that it was only a trick.

You took his line out of context. Marek said Sidious being beaten was a trick. Then Marek said immediately afterwards that Sidious deserved to die. He wanted to do it, and he believed he could. Only Kota brought him back to the light.

The Emperor: You were destined to destroy me. Do it. Give in to your hatred!
Rahm Kota: He's beaten. Let it go.
Galen Marek: It's a trick! He's stronger than you know, and he deserves to die for what he's done to me!
Rahm Kota: Maybe so, but if you strike him down in anger, you'll be right back where you began.

Originally posted by DarknessX7
You took his line out of context. Marek said Sidious asking him to strike him down was a trick. Then Marek said immediately afterwards that Sidious deserved to die. He wanted to do it, and he believed he could. Only Kota brought him back to the light.
The dark side ending shows that Galen in TFU would get stomped by Sidious, yet TFU II Starkiller, who is stronger, was only equal to Vader years before Vader's prime.

Hell, even the book has Galen cheapshotting Sidious and catching him off guard before Sidious does the whole "kill me, DEW IT!" thing.


Galen is not on Sidious's tier, period.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
nope, Galen was considered "no match" for sids, in the DS ending Sidious stomps Marek, and even in the canon ending Marek dies and Sidious is left unscathed. he didn't die anyway we will never know if the tfu 2 version was a clone or not

In the darkside ending Sid states that he could have been more powerful then him or equal to him

Could have been, not has become

Originally posted by PTforthewin
In the darkside ending Sid states that he could have been more powerful then him or equal to him
He never reached that point though.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
The dark side ending shows that Galen in TFU would get stomped by Sidious, yet TFU II Starkiller, who is stronger, was only equal to Vader years before Vader's prime.

Hell, even the book has Galen cheapshotting Sidious and catching him off guard before Sidious does the whole "kill me, DEW IT!" thing.


Marek caught him off guard? Come on, a fight is a fight. How many times has Sidious caught someone off guard? A lot. That's why he's the Dark Lord of the Sith. There are no cheap shots when you are fighting to live. You either do everything you can to survive, or die. Marek ended up dying, but he saved his friends. That's why people call his death a sacrifice, because he didn't have to do it.

And in TFU II, the Starkiller clone barely beat Vader while the original Galen Marek deftly surpassed his master in the first game.

He was never confirmed a clone so he isn't a clone

That's up for debate. The evidence supports that he was a clone. He believed he was and he was shown the dead body of his original. I'm open to the possibility of a twist that he's the original in future stories and everything was simply set up to confuse him. Until then, though, I'm pretty sure he was a clone who managed to reconcile with the memories that haunted him.

Originally posted by DarknessX7
Malak, however, is far weaker than Revan.
No.

Normal Malak is, yes.

Nah. I been gathering some accolades to prove this isn't true, give me a minute to collect them all together.

"Many of the most powerful, terrifying, and notorious Sith Lords through history have been Human or near-Human, including Exar Kun, Darth Malak, Darth Bane, Darth Sidious, Darth Vader, and Darth Krayt."
―Behind the Threat: The Sith

"When Revan fell we had hoped the Sith threat was ended. But Malak quickly assumed Revan's role, and has embraced the dark side power as fully as his old master ever did. Now Malak leads the Sith armada against the Republic. Hate and vengeance for his master's death draw Malak ever further down the path of the dark side, fueling his powers until they sup ass those of his old master."
―Vandar Tokare (Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic)

"With each passing moment your own apprentice becomes stronger, Master."
―Bastila Shan (Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic)

"Bastila, you and...the Padawan... should join us. We will need the combined strength of our entire Order to defeat Malak."
―Vandar Tokare (Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic)

"You mean why did I betray you, Revan. You are the one who taught me the ways of the Sith: the strongest must rule if we are to survive! You knew I would one day challenge you for supremacy,b ut you underestimated me. I acted sooner than you expected and seized the Sith throne with a single brilliant stroke...Once you were stronger then me, Revan. But as an apprentice I suprassed you. The Master must always be stronger than the apprentice, that was why I betrayed you. I was prepared to face you, Revan. But fate presented me with a better option. I saw my opportunity and seized it"
―Darth Malak (Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic)

It seems the proper level of power is (I hate chains but it works the best in this situation):
Revan (Star Forge)>Darth Malak (Star Forge)>Darth Malak (Leviathan)>=Darth Revan (Pre-KotOR)>Darth Malak (Pre-KotOR)>>All Other Jedi/Sith in the Republic/Sith Empire.

"sup ass"?

*suprass.

"suprass"?

*surpass.

Haha, you ****ed up.

Anyway, yeah your order is right but Star Forge Revan is still well above Malak and his former self. He kicked his ass multiple times with Malak being amped and with Revan having to wear himself out in battle after battle after battle.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Haha, you ****ed up.

Anyway, yeah your order is right but Star Forge Revan is still well above Malak and his former self. He kicked his ass multiple times with Malak being amped and with Revan having to wear himself out in battle after battle after battle. shut up

Reported for being underage.

Except he shouldn't be.
He only went to two worlds after his defeat at Malak, Korriban and Lehon. By Lehon I calculated he would be at Darth Revan's level, which Bastila Shan actually implies:
"Your mind was too badly damaged to ever full restore your memories, Revan. But your power, your strength of will, the essence of who and what you are: these things still remain!"

Revan would have then surpassed his former self on the Star Forge, as Malak states when you confront him. I seriously doubt he would have also surpassed Malak by *that much* so quickly. Especially when both Drew and TORE state the battle was difficult and intense:
"Revan then confronted Datrth Malak himself in a fierce duel, but Revan prevailed and finally defeated Darth Malak."
"...that battle would have been a brutal, hard fought affair spread over multiple pages."

Revan smacking down Malak all those times are a demonstration of Revan's powers, not a destruction of Malak's.

Originally posted by DarknessX7
Marek caught him off guard? Come on, a fight is a fight. How many times has Sidious caught someone off guard? A lot. That's why he's the Dark Lord of the Sith. There are no cheap shots when you are fighting to live. You either do everything you can to survive, or die. Marek ended up dying, but he saved his friends. That's why people call his death a sacrifice, because he didn't have to do it.
I was referring to the book when I said that, where no real fight took place, and Marek TKed him to the ground when he was busy zapping Kota, and then they had their little "kill me, dew it!" exchange.

Originally posted by DarknessX7
And in TFU II, the Starkiller clone barely beat Vader while the original Galen Marek deftly surpassed his master in the first game.
That's very simple. Vader improved between the two games.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Except he shouldn't be.
He only went to two worlds after his defeat at Malak, Korriban and Lehon. By Lehon I calculated he would be at Darth Revan's level, which Bastila Shan actually implies:
"Your mind was too badly damaged to ever full restore your memories, Revan. But your power, your strength of will, the essence of who and what you are: these things still remain!"

Revan would have then sup assed his former self on the Star Forge, as Malak states when you confront him. I seriously doubt he would have also surpassed Malak by *that much* so quickly. Especially when both Drew and TORE state the battle was difficult and intense:
"Revan then confronted Datrth Malak himself in a fierce duel, but Revan prevailed and finally defeated Darth Malak."
"...that battle would have been a brutal, hard fought affair spread over multiple pages."

Revan smacking down Malak all those times are a demonstration of Revan's powers, not a destruction of Malak's.

I don't give a shit about your calculations. Not to b rude or anything. There's nothing supporting it, Revan could have easily surpassed himself on the final world and gone further on Lehon. It doesn't matter what he "should have" done according to you when the actual evidence suggests differently.

Yeah it was a rough fight. When Malak was amped. And could regenerate like 7 times. And Revan had to fight through an army to SF droids and Sith to get to him. Unamped, with a fresh Revan and only 1 round and Revan would curbstomp Malak. Not because Malak sucks, although he kind of does, but because Revan actually is just that much better than him.

I'll reply soon.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Except he shouldn't be.
He only went to two worlds after his defeat at Malak, Korriban and Lehon. By Lehon I calculated he would be at Darth Revan's level, which Bastila Shan actually implies:
"Your mind was too badly damaged to ever full restore your memories, Revan. But your power, your strength of will, the essence of who and what you are: these things still remain!"

Revan would have then surpassed his former self on the Star Forge, as Malak states when you confront him. I seriously doubt he would have also surpassed Malak by *that much* so quickly. Especially when both Drew and TORE state the battle was difficult and intense:
"Revan then confronted Datrth Malak himself in a fierce duel, but Revan prevailed and finally defeated Darth Malak."
"...that battle would have been a brutal, hard fought affair spread over multiple pages."

Revan smacking down Malak all those times are a demonstration of Revan's powers, not a destruction of Malak's.



You didn't take into account that Malak was fueled by the Star Forge while Revan withstood its corruption. Malak had to fire his ships at Revan, because he was too scared to face his master. Also, whenever you play KotOR, you will see in the descriptions in between loading that Revan was the stronger of the two, and Malak grudgingly took the role of apprentice.

Malak could never stand against Revan's power. By the end of KotOR, Revan alone without any help from the Star Forge was stronger than Malak, who had to steal the life energy of captured Jedi to merely survive. And Malak still lost.

Malak without the help of the Star Forge could be considered on par with an average Jedi Master. But he would never stand against Ventress, Vader, or Marek.

Revan is far beyond Malak. The only instance where Malak almost beat him without the help of the Star Forge was during the Leviathan, after Revan had taken on the entire ship of Sith. lol

He is stated to be one of the most powerful Sith in history, what the **** are you smoking?

Neph, I'm replying to you now. Quite frankly I feel DarknessX7's argument doesn't even deserve a response,but I'll do his now first anyway since they are embarrassing.

Eh, I put Malak on par with Ventress I guess. Maul is as high as I go.

You cannot possibly think that Malak was one of the most powerful Sith in history. Against Bane? Against Malgus? Against Naga Sadow? Against Exar Kun? Against Caedus? Against Nihilus? Against Vader? Against Marek? Against Sidious?

Do you see where I'm going with this? Malak without the Star Forge is not even close to the most powerful Sith in history.

Holy ****, someone help you.
"Many of the most powerful, terrifying, and notorious Sith Lords through history have been Human or near-Human, including Exar Kun, Darth Malak, Darth Bane, Darth Sidious, Darth Vader, and Darth Krayt."
―Behind the Threat: The Sith

To begin with, remove the Revan profile picture. Only those worthy can have such a thing. You are not among those.


Never make the false assumption I don't know something about Revan or Malak that you do. Of course I took that into account. With the amp Darth Malak receives, he is stated to be "nearly unstoppable. However, that does not change the fact Darth Malak without the amp is still regarded as among "the most powerful, terrifying, and notorious Sith Lords through history". Educate yourself before you debate about a character you seemingly know nothing about.

Damn, you make PTforthewin look good.
Darth Malak: "Once you were stronger then me, Revan. But as an apprentice I surpassed you. The Master must always be stronger than the apprentice, that was why I betrayed you."
Revan: "You betrayed me from afar! You were afraid to face me, Malak."
Darth Malak:: "No! I was prepared to face you. But fate presented me with a better option."
Go and play the game actually, then come back.

Yes, I know of such, I even have it on Revan's Respect Thread. However Darth Malak grew more powerful, as stated by Vandar Tokare and Bastila Shan, and apparently surpassed his own master, according to himself and implied by Vandar Tokare.

You are aware the fight was stated to have been "brutal"?

Revan excels in the art of Force Healing, he would have been fine by then, especially when only being confronted by 10ish Dark Jedi, in which he aid from Bastila Shan and Carth Onasi.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Damn, you make PTforthewin look good.
Darth Malak: "Once you were stronger then me, Revan. But as an apprentice I surpassed you. The Master must always be stronger than the apprentice, that was why I betrayed you."
Revan: "You betrayed me from afar! You were afraid to face me, Malak."
Darth Malak:: "No! I was prepared to face you. But fate presented me with a better option."
Go and play the game actually, then come back.

It's not wise to insult someone debating ability then completely take an ******* like Malak at his word. His own arrogant opinion is irrelevant.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Revan excels in the art of Force Healing, he would have been fine by then, especially when only being confronted by 10ish Dark Jedi, in which he aid from Bastila Shan and Carth Onasi.

Reborn Revan does. Leviathan Revan though?

Also don't forget that Revan had been freaking tortured as well prior to that.

I'm curious what that word is with so many *'s.
His own arrogant opinion is not irrelevant when it is supported by Vander, Bastila, and every Dark Jedi in the game.

Yes! That is what I was missing from his pain threshold part of the Revan Respect Thread. I made a mental note the other day but I seemingly forgot about it. Thank you. However, Revan would have nearly fully recovered by the time your companion frees you and fight through the ship.

Master Heal ftw.

It rhymes with "glasshole".

That Malak is more powerful than Revan?

How do you know he'd have recovered by then? Getting repeatedly electrocuted isn't something you brush off.

Game mechanics ftl.

That Darth Malak eventually surpassed Darth Revan.


He's not injured and holding his shoulder in future cutscenes.


http://images.ezgif.com/tmp/1204021537.gif
I'm tired of you shitting on Malak every topic you see of him, Nephthys. Let's finish this, shall we?

Revan would not curbstomp Darth Malak, that is silly.
Darth Malak is stated an "extraordinary) powerful Sith Lord who is compared to the power of Exar Kun on numerous occasions. On top of this, he is confirmed to me among " the most powerful, terrifying, and notorious Sith Lords through history" and is also compared to the likes of Darth Sidious himself. Being also a "master of the Dark Side of the Force" who's...
Telekinesis can temporarily suspend Revan or hurl a Mandalorian hundreds of feet across the Senate Building.
Lightning can kill Jedi instantly on contact.
Stun is capable of incapacitating even the likes of Revan.
Saber Skills which is apparently better then Revan's, who's is highly impressive.

Yes, despite the massive amp, Darth Malak was defeated several times, but why is that a reason to hate on Malak? It is not as if Revan defeated 7 Darth Malak's at once. Knocking down Malak each time reconfirms the fact Revan is Malak's superior, and that Revan can not only contend with the higher tiers, but can defeat them. It is not as if Revan curbs each Darth Malak seven times, if that is the truth, the fight wouldn't "have been a brutal, hard fought affair spread over multiple pages." Each defeat of Malak was difficult, and demonstrates that no matter how many attempts, and regardless of how close you are to him, it is extremely difficult to defeat Revan in combat more times then he can defeat you.

I can't actually argue with someone who believes Malak can be compared with Sidious. lol Sure, we can list their feats, so if that's what you meant, then fine. But Malak is nowhere near Sidious' level.

I'm sorry, but you are using so many quotes, it's hilarious. They are nice, but only if used when mixed with actual research on the characters themselves, not what people say about them. Match up Malak's powers and abilities (without the Star Forge) to the majority of the most powerful Sith Lords in history, and you will see that he's on the low end of the spectrum.

We could debate where he lies on the level of power, which makes for an interesting discussion, and I have nothing against Malak, but his power without and even with the Star Forge clearly cannot be likened to Sidious'. If you don't see that, then we've lost you to the dark side. All you have to do is the smallest amount of research on the characters to see that Sidious could crush Malak without breaking a sweat.

So you are now ignoring canon? I automatically accept your concession. I won't even bother replying to anything else, since you just automatically conceded here.
Of course Sidious is greatly more powerful then Darth Malak, but that doesn't stop a canonical source from comparing them, which is a great feat for Darth Malak.


Not really. He's a very skilled duelist with some great TK feats.
http://www.comicvine.com/profile/darthant66/blog/darth-malak-respect-thread/97104/
He is probably TCW Darth Maul level, but the fact you say he is on average Jedi Master level is embarrassing for you.
I recommend making a new account and starting over.

PS: I see you still have your profile picture up, I am annoyed. :/

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
That Darth Malak eventually surpassed Darth Revan.

Quotes? Also how the hay would they know?

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
He's not injured and holding his shoulder in future cutscenes.

That he's not holding his shoulder means nothing. He was electrocuted, not stabbed in the arm. He could still easily be weakened from the damage electricity does to you.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
http://images.ezgif.com/tmp/1204021537.gif
I'm tired of you shitting on Malak every topic you see of him, Nephthys. Let's finish this, shall we?

lol umad

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Revan would not curbstomp Darth Malak, that is silly.
Darth Malak is stated an "extraordinary" powerful Sith Lord who is compared to the power of Exar Kun on numerous occasions.

Isn't that just whats written on the back of a freaking toy box? Your source is Hasbro, who do not have the authority to make canon judgements (you know, before Malak became noncanon blahblah).

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
On top of this, he is confirmed to me among " the most powerful, terrifying, and notorious Sith Lords through history" and is also compared to the likes of Darth Sidious himself.

It was simply rattling off a list of human Sith. Being mentioned in the same sentence isn't a comparison. Also as I said he can be one of the most powerful Sith and still suck in comparison to Revan, since that's a highly variable phrase.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Being also a "master of the Dark Side of the Force" who's...

Noooo shit. What named Sith isn't a master of the Dark Side?

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Telekinesis can temporarily suspend Revan or hurl a Mandalorian hundreds of feet across the Senate Building.

Suspend a featless Revan. The Mandalorian is a good feat. A good feat.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Lightning can kill Jedi instantly on contact.

On the Star Forge.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Stun is capable of incapacitating even the likes of Revan.

A featless Revan.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Saber Skills which is apparently better then Revan's, who's is highly impressive.

Better than Shitty McShitterson? Wow.

Revan is no more skilled than Obi-Wan or someone. And that's just Drews opinion? I think, that Malak was more skilled than him. Although I don't see that actually being said in your respect thread.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Yes, despite the massive amp, Darth Malak was defeated several times, but why is that a reason to hate on Malak? It is not as if Revan defeated 7 Darth Malak's at once. Knocking down Malak each time reconfirms the fact Revan is Malak's superior, and that Revan can not only contend with the higher tiers, but can defeat them. It is not as if Revan curbs each Darth Malak seven times, if that is the truth, the fight wouldn't "have been a brutal, hard fought affair spread over multiple pages." Each defeat of Malak was difficult, and demonstrates that no matter how many attempts, and regardless of how close you are to him, it is extremely difficult to defeat Revan in combat more times then he can defeat you.

Yeah but beating someone 7 times in a row makes you undeniably way better than him. And Malak was amped while Revan had just fought through, according to you, like a hundred freaking Sith and Bastila (multiple times) and a room of infinite droids. It's obvious that Revan is well superior to Malak.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
So you are now ignoring canon? I automatically accept your concession. I won't even bother replying to anything else, since you just automatically conceded here.
Of course Sidious is greatly more powerful then Darth Malak, but that doesn't stop a canonical source from comparing them, which is a great feat for Darth Malak.


Canon? What are you talking about? Have you even been paying attention to what they're doing with Episode VII?

Canon as we know it is changing. You can't use that as an excuse. Once again, research the characters themselves, not what what people tell you about them. The source you quoted (Behind the Threat: The Sith) is an overview of the Sith. It hardly mentions Malak beyond a few sentences in all of its sections. Think of it as Sith for Dummies.

In terms of "Legends Canon".
It doesn't matter how many mentions, for it mention Malak specifically where it counts: with the best.

Malak would know by sensing his strength, then Darth Revan's. :/

-Vandar Tokare-
"When Revan fell we had hoped the Sith threat was ended. But Malak quickly assumed Revan's role, and has embraced the dark side power as fully as his old master ever did. Now Malak leads the Sith armada against the Republic. Hate and vengeance for his master's death draw Malak ever further down the path of the dark side, fueling his powers until they supass those of his old master."

Bastila Shan agrees with Vander Tokare that Malak gets more powerful every moment, and on Lehon/Star Forge she speaks of how you are unworthy of the Sith Title, then goes in awe about Malak's power.

The Dark Jedi according to the KotORCG have the belief that the strongest must rule. I will get the quotes if you don't believe me, but the Sith in the Academy including the Wynn and Uthar, as with the ones from Lehon claim Darth Malak>Darth Revan.

Darth Malak says it nearly every conversation you have with him. Go watch a video of his two fights and you will see what I mean. Seemingly, Darth Malak surpasses Darth Revan in some point of KotOR before Leviathan but after Datooine.


Nah. In KotOR if you are injured, it is shown by holding your shoulder. For example after Revan is tortured by Jorak Uln, he holds his shoulder signifying he is very inured. However that still doesn't stop him from using Drain and then slaying the ex-Headmaster.

More at the new guy for barraging into a debate with no knowledge on anything at all.

Nah.
http://web.archive.org/web/20090603071915/https://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=starwars/article/sw20031009malak

It's a comparison from Malak, Sidious, and friends to the most powerful Sith Lords. The fact Malak is brought in with Sidious and friends his a comparison of his own power and greatness.

According to you, Darth Bandon.

Revan by this point:
1. Defeated Juhani, Calo Nord, and Bandon.
2. Implied to have beat Bastila in a sparing match.
3. Butchered dozens of Tuskens on Tatooine.
4. Been stated to have an "unlimited potential" and
5. Is more powerful then any student Zhar has ever seen. Note that Kun also went to the Dantooine Enclave.
6. Recovered more then half of his power as Darth Revan.

Which is who you said would get curbed by Malak.

Kenobi is better then Zannah in sabers. I won't debate this with you though, NewGuy is better at it.

Yes, I left it out.
However, I don't even have the quote anymore since NewGuy ignores me everytime I ask him for it. But he has posted the quote on SWF somewhere.

undeniably=/=much better then
It confirms Revan is Malak's superior, perhaps by a fair distance, but Revan isn't taking Malak to the curb, which you said he would.

Malak sucking says what?

I replied ^

Supass again? Really?

*suprass.

*facepalm*
You don't get a joke, do you?

By stating Malak is no where near Maul's level in combat is saying the same for Revan, which obviously isn't true. Malak's lightsaber skills are stated by Drew to be better then his Force abilities, which are "extraordinary". He beats a Leviathan Revan, casually outduels Bastila Shan, and it is stated that some say his combat abilities are just as good as Revan's military prowess. He's badass.

I hate the newer looks of Revan's mask, hence why I have the classic. I don't want you to have to because I don't like you, and I don't want you to be associated with someone like Revan. Note that I will nitpick everything you do, I will follow you everywhere you go, and I will capitalize on your cons and report them to mods on every opportunity I will get.

Right from my Revan Respect Thread:

I take it into account, bro. However, that doesn't change the fact if Revan would have beat him with ease, which you suggest, then there would be not "brutal" fight. It would be a slaughter of 7 Malak's in a couple seconds, and that would be the end of it, but it's not.

And guess what Revan's last words were?
"And in the end, as the darkness takes me, I am nothing. Now I know how you felt, my friend."

I don't like you.
You don't like me.
Please stop talking to me.
Thank you.

Calm down bro.

I want him banned.
He's the first member here who has made me debate against Revan.

He's instigating. That's against the rules. I'm going to report him.

UPDATE: He's from CV.
http://www.comicvine.com/profile/darknessx7/
Explains a lot.

I feel bad for you, DarthAnt66. I had an entire response ready, but I realize that this is a futile argument. Your emotions are clearly clouding your judgment. If I must be banned, and I am deserving of it, then so be it. But I have nothing against you. It's too bad it came to this so quickly.

Goodbye.
Your response would have been poor, like your logic, if you seriously think Malak is equal to average Jedi Master level. Like damn, I never even heard such a low claim before.

Originally posted by DarknessX7
I feel bad for you, DarthAnt66. I had an entire response ready, but I realize that this is a futile argument. Your emotions are clearly clouding your judgment. If I must be banned, and I am deserving of it, then so be it. But I have nothing against you. It's too bad it came to this so quickly.

Don't worry about Ant, it's just that time of month again. You won't be banned.

"That remains to be seen."
-Vitiate (TOR Revan)

I do agree with Ant however that Malak is far above average jedi master level.

No one in humanity disagrees with me on that...
Besides him.

Also Neph, after much consideration, I'm not divorcing you.
However you need to pay for our second honeymoon.
If you don't, I'll tell everyone about your dirty secret.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Malak would know by sensing his strength, then Darth Revan's. :/

All Sith overestimate their own power. They are basically insane and delusional by default.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
-Vandar Tokare-
"When Revan fell we had hoped the Sith threat was ended. But Malak quickly assumed Revan's role, and has embraced the dark side power as fully as his old master ever did. Now Malak leads the Sith armada against the Republic. Hate and vengeance for his master's death draw Malak ever further down the path of the dark side, fueling his powers until they supass those of his old master."

Bastila Shan agrees with Vander Tokare that Malak gets more powerful every moment, and on Lehon/Star Forge she speaks of how you are unworthy of the Sith Title, then goes in awe about Malak's power.

The Dark Jedi according to the KotORCG have the belief that the strongest must rule. I will get the quotes if you don't believe me, but the Sith in the Academy including the Wynn and Uthar, as with the ones from Lehon claim Darth Malak>Darth Revan.

Darth Malak says it nearly every conversation you have with him. Go watch a video of his two fights and you will see what I mean. Seemingly, Darth Malak surpasses Darth Revan in some point of KotOR before Leviathan but after Datooine.

That's nice.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Nah. In KotOR if you are injured, it is shown by holding your shoulder. For example after Revan is tortured by Jorak Uln, he holds his shoulder signifying he is very inured. However that still doesn't stop him from using Drain and then slaying the ex-Headmaster.

That doesn't really prove anything. Revan would still be affected by the torture.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Nah.
http://web.archive.org/web/20090603071915/https://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=starwars/article/sw20031009malak

I have no idea what that is. It looks pretty damn non-canon though. Where exactly is this quote coming from?

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
It's a comparison from Malak, Sidious, and friends to the most powerful Sith Lords. The fact Malak is brought in with Sidious and friends his a comparison of his own power and greatness.

No, it's not. Its saying that several of the most powerful, scary and notorious Sith were human. Just because someone is mentioned in the same breath as someone else doesn't make it a comparison. Malak IS one of the most powerful Sith, But he in no way compares to Sidious.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
According to you, Darth Bandon.

I meant people. Bandon isn't people.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Revan by this point:
1. Defeated Juhani, Calo Nord, and Bandon.
2. Implied to have beat Bastila in a sparing match.
3. Butchered dozens of Tuskens on Tatooine.
4. Been stated to have an "unlimited potential" and
5. Is more powerful then any student Zhar has ever seen. Note that Kun also went to the Dantooine Enclave.
6. Recovered more then half of his power as Darth Revan.

Yeah, thats why I said he was featless. And shit. So beating him proves **** all.

Exar Kun was trained 50 years before Revan. Who cares what Zhar says?

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Which is who you said would get curbed by Malak.

Don't you mean Revan? If so, no I meant that non-Star Forge Malak gets curbed by Revan.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Kenobi is better then Zannah in sabers. I won't debate this with you though, NewGuy is better at it.

I don't really see what your point is here. MY point is that Revan doesn't compare with the truly great swordsmen.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Yes, I left it out.
However, I don't even have the quote anymore since NewGuy ignores me everytime I ask him for it. But he has posted the quote on SWF somewhere.

I'm hearing "Just ignore it Neph, its probably bullshit anyway."

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
undeniably=/=much better then
It confirms Revan is Malak's superior, perhaps by a fair distance, but Revan isn't taking Malak to the curb, which you said he would.

Um, I know? Undeniably way better = much better than though.

Off the Star Forge, yeah he would. It would basically be Dooku vs Ventress. She can put up a bit of a fight for, like, 20 seconds maybe?

I'll reply later. I'm working on a study guide for my Humanities course atm.

NOTE: I won't be able to reply again today, so expect my next response tomorrow afternoon ET.

Yep.

Of course, but by the time of facing Malak it wouldn't make any noticeable difference.

I lol'ed @ your reaction.

No, it's canon.
It's from Cory J. Herndon.
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Cory_J._Herndon

They are using all them as examples of most powerful Sith Lords.

Maul doesn't compare to Sidious either, but he can hold his own for 10ish seconds. Malak can probably too.

Bandon and friends?

Except that isn't featless.

Me.

By the way you originally said it, you implied that you believe Star Forge amp Malak gets curbed by Revan.

He doesn't need to when he has precognition and force abilities that balance it out and put him above.

You try to PM him, maybe you will have better luck then me.

But the "way" isn't necessarily true, unless you believe Star Forge Revan got *that* much more powerful then Darth Revan in just two worlds.

*Dooku vs Maul.

Even though Malak is one of the waeker characters here, I think that team one has a good chance of winning. Revan and malak have years of experience fighting side by side. They know each other's strengths as well as their weaknesses so I'm sure that they can see when their ally is in trouble and can lend a hand. Likewise, Revan and Bastila also have a very good amount of experience with each other and can therefore work in tandem with each other. Meanwhile, everyone one team two are loners and while the help will be aprreciated, they just can't work together as well as team one can. All in all, I think that team one balances out having generally weaker characters with massive amounts of teamwork (and Battle Meditation)

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Sidious was soloing him and his brother, and was planning to take Maul back alive. This means nothing.

Sidious could have killed Maul in the end, but he didn't; this is true. However, Maul lasted during the battle itself, even for a brief moment after Opress was killed and before Maul was disarmed. That means a lot. Sidious' skill in lightsaber combat is enough to prove it without me having to go on.


Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Play KotOR. The average master is serving Malak or being killed by him.

I guess we have different views on what can be considered an "average" Jedi Master's level, and what Malak's power would be if he wasn't strengthened by the Star Forge. If we take a look at those on Dantooine during KotOR, then Malak could defeat them in a heartbeat. However, when we take a look at all of the Jedi Masters in Star Wars history, the average level of power becomes much higher. I would argue that Malak, without the power he gained from the Star Forge, would have a tough time beating the likes of Kyle Katarn, Atris, or Cin Drallig. I would further argue that the majority of Malak's dark side power came from the Star Forge, and without it, he would never have stood against the likes of Revan as anything kin to a real threat, as witnessed when Revan disarmed Malak and crushed his jaw. But for the time period, I agree. Malak would have bested the majority of masters. I was referring to all of Star Wars history, since the original subject of this thread dealt with an overarching timeline of characters.


Originally posted by FreshestSlice
He was comparing himself to Revan, his idol and his master. His only friend for a very long time and his era's honorary Space Sun Tzu.

I fail to see how that weakens my argument over how much stronger Revan was, since that was the context in which it was placed.

I thought you quit.

Originally posted by deathslash
All in all, I think that team one balances out having generally weaker characters with massive amounts of teamwork (and Battle Meditation)

Battle Meditation is key in this fight. I'm not sure how quickly Bastila would be able to utilize it. I'm still with team two on this one, but I could see team one coming out on top if Bastila had enough time. Maybe.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
I thought you quit.

Shut up Ant. Leave him alone.

Also prepare for sarcasm and being patronized in the Zannah thread.

I hate sarcasm.
I like patronizing.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Yep.

I meant it in a dismissive manner.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Of course, but by the time of facing Malak it wouldn't make any noticeable difference.

It's a factor. Especially since the trio had to fight through the Leviathan while still recovering from torture too.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
No, it's canon.
It's from Cory J. Herndon.
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Cory_J._Herndon

Just because the works or worked (?) for Star Wars doesn't mean his every blog post is canon. What source is that? Why do you have it sourced as Hasbro in your respect thread?

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
They are using all them as examples of most powerful Sith Lords.

Which doesn't mean that every example is worth the same amount. I could name the top 30 most powerful Jedi imo and still have there be a world of difference between the top and bottom.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Maul doesn't compare to Sidious either, but he can hold his own for 10ish seconds. Malak can probably too.

Eeeeeeh? No.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Except that isn't featless.

It basically is. None of those feats are notable or put him above an average Jedi Master.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Me.

I don't care. Its not a valid comparison to Exar Kun.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
By the way you originally said it, you implied that you believe Star Forge amp Malak gets curbed by Revan.

I didn't. I specifically said that if Malak was unamped, if Revan was fresh and if Malak had no Jedi to drain, Revan would stomp him.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
He doesn't need to when he has precognition and force abilities that balance it out and put him above.



Originally posted by DarthAnt66
You try to PM him, maybe you will have better luck then me.

Or I could just not care. Oh wait, already accomplished.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
But the "way" isn't necessarily true, unless you believe Star Forge Revan got *that* much more powerful then Darth Revan in just two worlds.

Why couldn't he?

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
*Dooku vs Maul.

I said earlier that I would be hard pressed to go as far as Maul. I mean, I'd give Maul the win over Revan if he was in Malak's position on the Star Forge.

Actually....

I'll respond soon.

You don't need to keep telling me. I know you're obsessed with me.

I'm aware.

*right when Revan awakes from his unconsciousness*
Bastila: "Don't try to move too quickly, you might not be full recovered yet. Admiral Karath had his guards continue to torture you even after you passed out."
The fact Revan is nearly fully recovered already shows that by the time he is freed he would, and without a doubt by the time he faces Malak. That is also a awesome Force Heal/Pain Resistance feat.

Damn, you need some sleep.
Herndon wrote a online Hasbro article for Malak. It is accordingly a "web enhancement" to the KotORPG.

Another accolade for Malak, brand new:
"Darth Malak is a straightforward lightsaber combatant. True to his character, his abilities and powers focus on attacking his enemies head on. His high Defense and Attack scores enable him take on strong opponents, and he can increase his damage through Sith Rage when desired."

Of course. However, that doesn't change the fact it is a honor and a feat from the bottom to be compared to the top.

You *really* underrate Bandon.
Bandon defeated 20 Jedi already.
He's well above a average Jedi.

Ah, my mistake.

Malak already has a valid comparison to Kun, so it doesn't matter.


Because you already visited 4 worlds and are only at "so-and-so strength." I don't see Revan becoming 2x his strength from Leviathan that quickly. He probably eventually became that on Dromaund Kaas, but not on the Star Forge.

EDIT: Bwhahahah **** yeah, bitches.
Found an online addition to Revan's KotORPG entry!

"Throughout this Jedi Civil War, Darth Revan was the central figure -- first as the enemy commander, but ultimately as the one who defeated Darth Malak and shattered the Sith forces."

"Darth Revan is a formidable piece, with several unique powers or abilities. In fact, compared with Darth Malak, Darth Revan is superior in every category except damage. "

"Force Storm may deter some from engaging the character in melee combat, but Force Corruption has the potential to damage an enemy ..."

*Note that this "reflect Darth Revan when he first returned from the Unknown Regions".*

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
*right when Revan awakes from his unconsciousness*
Bastila: "Don't try to move too quickly, you might not be full recovered yet. Admiral Karath had his guards continue to torture you even after you passed out."
The fact Revan is nearly fully recovered already shows that by the time he is freed he would, and without a doubt by the time he faces Malak. That is also a awesome Force Heal/Pain Resistance feat.

If Revan has only just awoken from unconsciousness, then he wouldn't have been using Force Heal at all up to that point. I'm pretty sure they couldn't use the Force at all or Karath would be pasted to a wall in all likelihood.

Bastila is just talking about Revan recovering from being knocked out. Or shes just really dumb because obviously he wouldn't be fully recovered.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Damn, you need some sleep.
Herndon wrote a online Hasbro article for Malak. It is accordingly a "web enhancement" to the KotORPG.

Another accolade for Malak, brand new:
"Darth Malak is a straightforward lightsaber combatant. True to his character, his abilities and powers focus on attacking his enemies head on. His high Defense and Attack scores enable him take on strong opponents, and he can increase his damage through Sith Rage when desired."

And as I said, I have no idea what that is. Or if its the slighest bit canon. But I know I'm not taking anything as canon that talks about high defense and attack scores and high level campaigns.

Also that article is ****ing retarded. "Darth Malak ignores the first five points of any kind of damage. Whether this is due to hidden armor linked to his voice mask or the physical result of Sith alchemy is anyone's guess." Or maybe its because he's wearing phucking body armor you zombie. Why the shit would his voice mask be have hidden armor in it. Jesus Christ. Also, "vast resources of mysterious origin"? He the leader of a galactic empire. Gosh, I wonder where he gets his resources, mother****ing Santa maybe???? And Malak was enraged by Revan's death??? He was the one who tried to kill him!

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Of course. However, that doesn't change the fact it is a honor and a feat from the bottom to be compared to the top.

Being mentioned in the same sentence isn't a comparison.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
You *really* underrate Bandon.
Bandon defeated 20 Jedi already.
He's well above a average Jedi.

Revan didn't fight him alone. As I've said many, many times to you.


Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Malak already has a valid comparison to Kun, so it doesn't matter.

No, he doesn't.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Because you already visited 4 worlds and are only at "so-and-so strength." I don't see Revan becoming 2x his strength from Leviathan that quickly. He probably eventually became that on Dromaund Kaas, but not on the Star Forge.

Why the hell not? Knowing who he really is could have significantly increased his learning rate, since he was really just relearning everything.

Perhaps she healed him? Or he healed himself instinctively? No clue, but by the context she is referring to him being tortured.


Like I said, it's an addition to the KotORPG, which is canon.


Nah, you don't understand.
The article is written in a limited view for it is released before the game came out, hence why it has the same knowledge as someone like Vandar. In fact, Vandar claims Malak was enraged by Revan's death as well before he finds out the truth.


Revan killed him, that much is canon.
There were three Sith, and three heroes. One for each, Revan took Bandon.


They are being compared together, not to one another.


According to the characters, Revan didn't surpass/equal to his former self until he beat Bastila. Before that, everyone laughs at him and tells him he's a shell of his former self. After that, they say he can beat Malak. It's kind of silly actually.

DAMN. Guess what I found?
Yep. Another accolade. A huge baby too.
"The Star Wars universe has created some truly vile dark side villains. Have you ever wondered what would happen if the most powerful Sith Lords duked it out for supremacy of the galaxy?"
It it, they are referring to Darth Revan, Darth Caedus, and Darth Sidious.
EDIT: Does this hypothetically mean they are the best 3 Sith in the mythos?

hypothetically, them Vitiate and Nihilus. And Bane. And Plagueis. The idea that they're even putting Revan as a Darth in the same sentence regarding battling Caedus and Sidious, speaks for his power.

Niceeee. I like this!

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Perhaps she healed him? Or he healed himself instinctively? No clue, but by the context she is referring to him being tortured.

I really doubt they could use to Force. Doesn't Saul actually say they can't?

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Like I said, it's an addition to the KotORPG, which is canon.

No, it's not.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Nah, you don't understand.
The article is written in a limited view for it is released before the game came out, hence why it has the same knowledge as someone like Vandar. In fact, Vandar claims Malak was enraged by Revan's death as well before he finds out the truth.

Ok, so it's completely non-canon then? Thanks for clearing that up.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Revan killed him, that much is canon.
There were three Sith, and three heroes. One for each, Revan took Bandon.

And I killed him as well in the game, after Zalbaar had beaten him down to 10 health. Just because Revan got the killing blow, that doesn't mean anything. It was a group fight. Theres no indication they paired up.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
They are being compared together, not to one another.

So as I said, they weren't being compared.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
According to the characters, Revan didn't surpass/equal to his former self until he beat Bastila. Before that, everyone laughs at him and tells him he's a shell of his former self. After that, they say he can beat Malak. It's kind of silly actually.

I don't care what the characters say. How would they even know? Only two of them are Jedi and Juhani barely speaks and Jolee is intentionally cryptic and unhelpful. Also maybe they laugh because Malak had literally just kicked his ass.

I can't even remember what the point of this is. The fact remains that Revan>>>>>>>>>Malak.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
DAMN. Guess what I found?
Yep. Another accolade. A huge baby too.
"The Star Wars universe has created some truly vile dark side villains. Have you ever wondered what would happen if the most powerful Sith Lords duked it out for supremacy of the galaxy?"
It it, they are referring to Darth Revan, Darth Caedus, and Darth Sidious.
EDIT: Does this hypothetically mean they are the best 3 Sith in the mythos?

Your fanboyism is actually getting a little irritating now.

What source is this though?

I never asked for your opinion, Neph. I thought you would like a quote like this?

The same as the other Malak and Revan ones.
Hasbro, Wizards of the Coast online article: "Sith Showdown".
Wookieepeda considers it canonical, and they have a strict canon policy, I see no reason why we shouldn't.

Wait, this isn't even a real website.

What? lol
It's from the "Wizards of the Coast" website, aka the dudes who make the Campaign Guides.

perhaps a link would be helpful?

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
What? lol
It's from the "Wizards of the Coast" website, aka the dudes who make the Campaign Guides.

Its an archive. The wizards of the coast site has been defunct for 4 years.

http://web.archive.org/web/20090601195716/http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=starwars/article/S3Puzzle2
It is right below the picture. It is literally the only description of the page that is not game mechanics (thank God).

The archive is also filled with stuff about Krayt and Starkiller. If someone would spend the time to collect them all, everyone would be awe in them most likely, especially over my findings of Starkiller in the CG.

Apparently Roan Fel is also among the most powerful Sith in history.

Roan Fel is not even a Sith.

Its called sarcasm.

Y u mad though.
I thought you like Revan.
This gives you an excuse to put Vitiate up with the higher tiers again.

"Again?"

I liked Revan until you got a teeny bit obnoxious with your love for him. Now I have to keep arguing against him because you're reaching so hard all the time.

Also it goes without saying that that Sith Showdown thing isn't even close to canon.

So you don't like him anymore?
How the hell can you not like him.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Also it goes without saying that that Sith Showdown thing isn't even close to canon.
Hail Hasbro LOL

I same reason I dislike Link now because Screampaste thinks he can punch mountains apart, backhand lightning and destroy continents with the Master Sword.

We rank Revan the same spot.
In fact, you might actually rank him higher then me. I put him Anakin's equal.

You just overrate Anakin.

No, he just ranks anakin lower.

Originally posted by Nephthys
You just overrate Anakin.
:/ We both have him Dooku level then, and agree he loses to Tython, but also agree he beats Kenobi and such.

OMG I got a 1000 views

Your welcome.

Hail Hasbro!!!! The most valid source for Star Wars canon ever known to man!!!!

Hell yeah!

Originally posted by DarknessX7
Sidious could have killed Maul in the end, but he didn't; this is true. However, Maul lasted during the battle itself, even for a brief moment after Opress was killed and before Maul was disarmed. That means a lot. Sidious' skill in lightsaber combat is enough to prove it without me having to go on.

"My opinions that have no basis in this discussion nor bring up a comparison to Malak," is a lot less to write.

None of the people you listed are average Jedi Masters. None of the masters on Dantooine are average. Even if they were, you are backing this up with nothing except again your opinions, which in turn, have no backing at all. You're wasting a lot of time you know. Though from your responses, I think I'm just as guilty, if not more so. And if you're seriously saying that Atris who is around during the Jedi Civil War could somehow beat Malak, please explain to me why she didn't?


That's probably because you didn't read what I wrote and just responded again. That quote had nothing to do with Malak's strength, so it has no place here.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
"My opinions that have no basis in this discussion nor bring up a comparison to Malak," is a lot less to write.

You need to actually follow the conversation to understand what bearing it has on Malak. You were the one who questioned Maul's skill against Sidious, so I'm not sure what you expected.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
And if you're seriously saying that Atris who is around during the Jedi Civil War could somehow beat Malak, please explain to me why she didn't?

Because no one was suicidal enough to journey out into unknown territory against an entire fleet of Sith without any knowledge as the where the Star Forge resided. Even Revan wasn't so blind as to go gallivanting into unknown regions without reacquiring the Star Forge's position. Additionally, Malak was fueled with power from the Star Forge throughout his entire reign as Dark Lord of the Sith. How would Atris even get close enough to him, and how could she stand against such dark side energy? Context. It's all about the context.


Originally posted by FreshestSlice
That's probably because you didn't read what I wrote and just responded again. That quote had nothing to do with Malak's strength, so it has no place here.

I responded directly to what you wrote. You even said:

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
this being because he couldn't defeat Revan as he is now.

I am limited to my responses by your statements, which I thought were perfectly acceptable to discuss. If you don't think what Malak said had bearing on Malak's strength, then you shouldn't have inferred that his quote meant Malak was admitting he couldn't defeat Revan. Because that has everything to do with his strength. I think it does too, which is why I brought in the initial quote.

Finally, if you don't like opinions, you probably shouldn't be discussing fictional characters on a forum littered with fans. I like opinions. I don't always agree with them, but they are a part of every discussion. Your opinion is that my opinions have no backing. And that's fine. I can't convince you otherwise, and I'm okay with that. But I'll still discuss the story, the characters, and anything else pertaining to the topics at hand.

Originally posted by DarknessX7
You need to actually follow the conversation to understand what bearing it has on Malak. You were the one who questioned Maul's skill against Sidious, so I'm not sure what you expected.

Nope. The point is, Maul being able to defend briefly against Sidious holding back has no pertaining to this conversation. It doesn't show Malak, who has not and never will, hopefully, met either is weak. Malak is stated to be a fine duelist in a time before both sides stopped learning a lot of their techniques. So if you're not sure what I expected, I expected something relevant.


The Jedi Civil War was in Republic space. The entire time, Atris is hiding out, on a mountain doing nothing. It's not like Malak was always on the Star Forge. Certainly not when he was bombarding Taris or Telos, a planet Atris conveniently went to after a great threat almost glassed her. Malak is not drawing on the Star Forge when he's not at the Star Forge, and it didn't follow him around, the star it was powered on, in tow.



Malak isn't fighting Revan here. Neither does Malak being beaten by Revan prove that he is weak. Even then, that doesn't show that he average master is his equal. None of it gives conclusive evidence to anything except that Revan can beat Malak, which was never questionable. That was apparent from the beginning of the game.


Calm down.

Most of the time, from what I've seen, forum duels and competitions are about comparing feats and showing which is greater and basing a character of that. Your opinions mean nothing. Just like everyone elses. Maul killing Jinn is a feat. Maul pressing Obi-wan(TCW) is a feat. Maul being destroyed by Sidious proves nothing except for that Maul got beat by Sidious. Especially when said fight ended in seconds. Your stating that Kyle Katarn can solo a bunch of Jedi Masters because reasons, means absolutely nothing here.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Nope. The point is, Maul being able to defend briefly against Sidious holding back has no pertaining to this conversation. It doesn't show Malak, who has not and never will, hopefully, met either is weak. Malak is stated to be a fine duelist in a time before both sides stopped learning a lot of their techniques. So if you're not sure what I expected, I expected something relevant.

You brought up Maul and Sidious without involving Malak right here:

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Sidious was soloing him and his brother, and was planning to take Maul back alive. This means nothing.

Before your response, I specifically mentioned Malak in relation to Maul. Don't pass this one off on me simply because I was responding to your statement.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Malak is not drawing on the Star Forge when he's not at the Star Forge, and it didn't follow him around, the star it was powered on, in tow.

Clap on, clap off - The Star Forge? I don't think so. Revan limited his contact with it because the Star Forge corrupts. It was semi-living. The longer you stay on board, the more it feeds off your dark side energy. Malak allowed it to. It's beautiful, really. It corrupts an individual so that he will feed it as he grows in the dark side. Being away from the Star Forge for a short time doesn't mean you're not corrupted by its influence anymore, otherwise it would be ineffective at controlling people. Sure, if Malak was away long enough, he would be okay. But that wasn't the case.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Malak isn't fighting Revan here.

Actually, Malak just lost to Revan after an extensive one on one battle.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Maul killing Jinn is a feat. Maul pressing Obi-wan(TCW) is a feat. Maul being destroyed by Sidious proves nothing except for that Maul got beat by Sidious.

That's a bit one-sided. Losses can be considered feats, depending on the opponent, the time spent, and numerous other reasons within a fight. For example, when Luke faced himself on Dagobah, he failed the test, and he failed again when he lost his hand later, but eventually learned a valuable lesson. That lesson is a feat. It's an achievement, as were instances in Maul's duel with Sidious.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Your stating that Kyle Katarn can solo a bunch of Jedi Masters because reasons, means absolutely nothing here.

I never stated Kyle Katarn could solo a bunch of Jedi Masters. lol Where did I even hint that?

Originally posted by DarknessX7
You brought up Maul and Sidious without involving Malak right here:



Before your response, I specifically mentioned Malak in relation to Maul. Don't pass this one off on me simply because I was responding to your statement.


You didn't mention anything. You spoke of Malak being no match for Maul, naming off a bunch of Maul's skills. You're the one who brought it up, and used Sidious' duel with him as a reason Malak would fall to Maul. You're the one claiming Malak is average, when clearly that was never stated.

Malak killed Jedi away from the Star Forge. He is not feeding off of its power when he is away from it. Malak did not need the Star Forge to kill anyone or to be powerful. Arguably, the only one he really needed it to face was Revan.

Actually, that's not the point of this thread. In this scenario, they are not fighting. That point is irrelevant.


Forum feat for a forum duel. Luke being able to fight Vader multiple times without dying is a feat. Him learning a life lesson isn't.

You saying that Malak was no match for other Jedi Masters, such as Kyle Katarn, with no basis says otherwise, especially when you brought up that he got most of his power from the Star Forge, completely disregarding he was powerful, even without its use.

NOTE: Well guys,. we are all stupid. I replayed the final fight and you smack down Malak 9 times...not 7. There are 8 Jedi captured, lol.

.
No where I can see.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOfEKg8MptA


Lol, "The Knights of the Old Republic Campaign Guide is crammed with material that Gamemasters and players can use to create an epic Star Wars roleplaying game experience during one of the most dangerous periods of galactic history. In fact, the book is so full that we had to leave out a few things that just wouldn't fit. But never fear -- we're bringing those game options to you as a series of exclusive web enhancements!"
They are canon additions to the guide posted on the guide's publisher's website. They are as canon as you can get.


Except the fact Bandon said himself he want's to kill Revan, and will therefore attack Revan. It would be foolish for the other companions to go and attack Bandon with a Dark Jedi attacking them.

Alright whatever, I concede, for I don't need the quote anyway anymore. I have a better one.
""The Star Wars universe has created some truly vile dark side villains. Have you ever wondered what would happen if the most powerful Sith Lords duked it out for supremacy of the galaxy?"
Malak held his own and perhaps could have surpassed a contestant for the most powerful Sith Lord in history.


Because Revan can one shot Malak yet still be hard-pressed to beat him on the Star Forge? Makes perfect sense!

Originally posted by DarknessX7
I clearly referenced Malak's aggressive, one-handed style in lightsaber combat.

And then said that it was no match for Maul's because reasons.

Darth Malak is stronger than Malak during the Mandalorian Wars. Even without the Star Forge. It's been five years, the entire time, him learning from ancient Sith teachings.


I don't think you know what a feat is.

an achievement that requires great courage, skill, or strength.

But more importantly, in a forum duel, feats are about showing of power or skill. Luke beating Vader is a feat. The reason for not killing him is not.


So, Malak would have a tough time beating other Masters? Without basis I might add. Atris has done nothing to show herself to be above Malak. Nor has Cin Drallig or Kyle.

Malak would plow over Atris, lol ^

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