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Namor, Captain America, Jim Hammond, Aarkus, and Bucky.

Thor.

Bucky kills him

Invaders.

Thor one shots Namor. The other members don't stand a chance.

Thor would win.

Namor would give him a good fight but would lose, and easily if Thor uses weakness explanation. The rest see irrelevant, they might as well not come to the fight.

Thors not one shotting Namor. And I'm not sure what is meant by "weakness exploitation". I think Aarkus is the wild card here because I'm not sure of the full extent of his powers or what they all are honestly.

Originally posted by namorsubby
Thors not one shotting Namor. And I'm not sure what is meant by "weakness exploitation". I think Aarkus is the wild card here because I'm not sure of the full extent of his powers or what they all are honestly.
He has some psionic powers believe it or not.

Cap throws Namor his shield and he engages Thor while Vision aka Aarkus mentally harasses Thor. The rest of the team is superfluous.

Originally posted by namorsubby
Thors not one shotting Namor. And I'm not sure what is meant by "weakness exploitation". I think Aarkus is the wild card here because I'm not sure of the full extent of his powers or what they all are honestly.
He still wins. Namor gets two-shotted.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
He still wins. Namor gets two-shotted.
http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticons/default/weirdo.gif

I assume that you are not aware of Namor and Thors past encounters. All pretty good fights. Aarkus seems like he is almost definitely the teams most powerful member, but I'm not sure what he'd do specifically. Hammond may have some effect.

The first and only scenario that came to mind, was Thor walking in and hitting the team with a concentrated elemental assault that KO's the entire team barring Namor, and then goes to work dominating the monarch of the oceans FTW. Namor is strong, but he just doesn't have the chops to hang with a guy that could polish off a much more powerful team in the form of the Infinity Watch, with the Silver Surfer, and Beta Ray Bill helping them out. In other words, and without a doubt, Thor completely dominates this.

Originally posted by Stoic
Namor is strong, but he just doesn't have the chops to hang with a guy that could polish off a much more powerful team in the form of the Infinity Watch, with the Silver Surfer, and Beta Ray Bill helping them out. In other words, and without a doubt, Thor completely dominates this.
Way to ignore context Stoic.

Originally posted by namorsubby
I assume that you are not aware of Namor and Thors past encounters.

They are. Thats why they said Thor could one shot Namor:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/7/78977/1857806-thor_one_shots_namor.jpg

That was a prolonged fight. And there are many others. If you're gonna BS someone, you should make sure they're not an expert on the subject.

Thor can't even dominate Namor individually according to history but he somehow dominates this team? Illogical to say the least.

Originally posted by zopzop
Way to ignore context Stoic.

Let's call a spade a spade here Zop, and get to the Thor vs Ikaris question. Can Ikaris beat Thor?

Originally posted by Stoic
Let's call a spade a spade here Zop, and get to the Thor vs Ikaris question. Can Ikaris beat Thor?
Sure, why not? It's not like Ikaris is some feeb. Written to his potential he's easily high herald level.

The Ikaris that was fighting the Invaders was mind controlled and he even said he was trying his best to fight the effect and not murder them.

He said he was trying his best not to hit them with the full extent of his power but that the urge to kill them was overwhelming. What i took from that is that the mind control was so that it would incline him to fight all out, but he was trying not to. Namor faired pretty well against him, too. Also, Aarkus was not in that fight.

Originally posted by zopzop
Sure, why not? It's not like Ikaris is some feeb. Written to his potential he's easily high herald level.

The Ikaris that was fighting the Invaders was mind controlled and he even said he was trying his best to fight the effect and not murder them.

So you believe that Ikaris could defeat Thor, which shows why your first response to this thread was what it was. I can admit that I left out some key points to my first response, but the reason why I used that particular Thor showing, was because he wasn't exactly in his right mind either. Ikaris has had it out with Thor in the past, and I do realize that he is sporting a new Prime Eternal moniker these days. But, has it been proven that this new sparkly title has propelled him to heights that he could not reach in the past?

Is he now too much for Black Bolt to handle? Where is the proof that he has become so much more powerful than the guy that was swatted aside by the Savage Hulk? What proof is there that he would do better against Thor than he did in the past? I'm not saying that he can't, but I'm just saying that I need more than a title to prove that he has earned the right to hang with the real big guns. Thor is, and has proven time and again that he is one of the big guns.

Keep in mind that I am not knocking Ikaris, but he has to be placed under the scrutiny microscope in order to compete with a character like Thor. I believe that Thor would blow this team away, and do it with minimum to medium effort.

Originally posted by Stoic
So you believe that Ikaris could defeat Thor, which shows why your first response to this thread was what it was. I can admit that I left out some key points to my first response, but the reason why I used that particular Thor showing, was because he wasn't exactly in his right mind either. Ikaris has had it out with Thor in the past, and I do realize that he is sporting a new Prime Eternal moniker these days. But, has it been proven that this new sparkly title has propelled him to heights that he could not reach in the past?

Is he now too much for Black Bolt to handle? Where is the proof that he has become so much more powerful than the guy that was swatted aside by the Savage Hulk? What proof is there that he would do better against Thor than he did in the past? I'm not saying that he can't, but I'm just saying that I need more than a title to prove that he has earned the right to hang with the real big guns. Thor is, and has proven time and again that he is one of the big guns.
So can Ikaris. The Eternals have so many powers writers just tend to ignore them. One of the guys fighting him said they rather try their luck vs Thor as opposed to Ikaris (not just because of his power levels but all of his varied abilities).


Aarkus is a psion. He can mentally harass Thor while Namor w/Capt's shield goes to town on him.

Originally posted by namorsubby
He said he was trying his best not to hit them with the full extent of his power but that the urge to kill them was overwhelming. What i took from that is that the mind control was so that it would incline him to fight all out, but he was trying not to. Namor faired pretty well against him, too. Also, Aarkus was not in that fight.
I know. I was actually pretty impressed by Namor in that fight. He even withstood Ikaris' beams (strong enough to deflect Blastaar's energy attacks).

Aarkus + Namor w/Cap's shield got this fight in the bag.

Originally posted by namorsubby
Thors not one shotting Namor. And I'm not sure what is meant by "weakness exploitation". I think Aarkus is the wild card here because I'm not sure of the full extent of his powers or what they all are honestly.

Actually Thor CAN one-shot Namor in a number of ways (Lightning, hammer shot, Anti-Force blast etc.) but on average, Namor is pretty powerful and can give Thor a good run in a physical fight on a regular day.

By weakness exploitation, I am referring to Namor's weakness to heat.

Mjolnir can blast, unleash, or be charged with ridiculously extreme heat. The type of power and energy that would take out high heralds that aren't vulnerable to heat specifically.

But that's a bit more than average Thor.

Thor wins 9/10. Namor can put up a good, strong fight but that's all he can do and only as long as Thor allows it. The rest are canon fodder.

Originally posted by Stoic
I believe that Thor would blow this team away, and do it with minimum to medium effort. I'm not sure how that's possible given that Namor has single handily contended. Aarkus seems transcendent in comparison to his teammates. And Hammond has beaten Namor, Sentry, and one shotted the mighty avengers including ms marvel and wonder man. I'm not saying they'll win, but I think this'll be quite a fight to see.

Originally posted by eaebiakuya
They are. Thats why they said Thor could one shot Namor:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/7/78977/1857806-thor_one_shots_namor.jpg

Namor was weakened.

Originally posted by zopzop

So can Ikaris. The Eternals have so many powers writers just tend to ignore them. One of the guys fighting him said they rather try their luck vs Thor as opposed to Ikaris (not just because of his power levels but all of his varied abilities).


Aarkus is a psion. He can mentally harass Thor while Namor w/Capt's shield goes to town on him.


I know. I was actually pretty impressed by Namor in that fight. He even withstood Ikaris' beams (strong enough to deflect Blastaar's energy attacks).

Aarkus + Namor w/Cap's shield got this fight in the bag.

The Psionic could also be assaulted by 200+ MPH winds and tossed into a wall for the KO. One statement is a weak feat if it could even be called one. Try to see it from my perspective for a second. It's as solid as the Sentry chasing Galactus off statement. Off panel feats to me have far less impact most of the time, than actual on panel feats if you can see that. Thor fighting at his best, and using his powers would put the sub class 10's out of this pretty fast IMO. Thor is also enchanted to have huge resistances against psionic influence under the right pen. Namor would be the last standing based on common sense, but even he would be taken down by a serious Thor.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Actually Thor CAN one-shot Namor in a number of ways (Lightning, hammer shot, Anti-Force blast etc.) but on average, Namor is pretty powerful and can give Thor a good run in a physical fight on a regular day.

By weakness exploitation, I am referring to Namor's weakness to heat.

Mjolnir can blast, unleash, or be charged with ridiculously extreme heat. The type of power and energy that would take out high heralds that aren't vulnerable to heat specifically.

But that's a bit more than average Thor.

Thor wins 9/10. Namor can put up a good, strong fight but that's all he can do and only as long as Thor allows it. The rest are canon fodder. Namor has already no sold Thors hammer toss on multiple occasions. I believe he's endured his lightning as well. Namor has no weakness to heat but rather great resistance to temperature extremes. He's endured nova flame and it recently took three torches to over heat him(Hammond, Johnny, and Toro). Pretty impressive seeing as what Jim has done with his flame solo

Originally posted by namorsubby
I'm not sure how that's possible given that Namor has single handily contended. Aarkus seems transcendent in comparison to his teammates. And Hammond has beaten Namor, Sentry, and one shotted the mighty avengers including ms marvel and wonder man. I'm not saying they'll win, but I think this'll be quite a fight to see.

Do you really want to get into a Thor feat war against the Torch? Dr. Strange is powerful as well, and has reached into the trans tier, but if Spider Man connected with his jaw, it's lights out.

Originally posted by namorsubby
I'm not sure how that's possible given that Namor has single handily contended.

This is fine, as long as you realize that Namor would get torn apart in a fight, the moment Thor kicks it up a notch.

Hydrated, he's practically as strong as Thor (On average) and is herald level in terms of stats but he's not anywhere near as powerful.

Originally posted by namorsubby
Aarkus seems transcendent in comparison to his teammates.

What does this mean?

Originally posted by namorsubby
And Hammond has beaten Namor, Sentry, and one shotted the mighty avengers including ms marvel and wonder man. I'm not saying they'll win, but I think this'll be quite a fight to see.

So?

He sent Sentry running but because he's a psychotic nitwit and Namor has a weakness to heat.

The Human Torch is no threat to Thor. I mean aside from the fact that he's immune to the Torch's flames, can and HAS one-shot killed him IIRC, he can easily drain his heat powers. Or put him out:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/13/136540/2970081-7532917468-ThorM.jpg

Originally posted by namorsubby
Namor has already no sold Thors hammer toss on multiple occasions. I believe he's endured his lightning as well. Namor has no weakness to heat but rather great resistance to temperature extremes. He's endured nova flame and it recently took three torches to over heat him(Hammond, Johnny, and Toro). Pretty impressive seeing as what Jim has done with his flame solo

First of all, I don't think you know what no-selling is. That implies the hammer literally bouncing off to no-effect. If that's ever happened, I'd like to see a scan.

Second, so what? Thor is one of those characters (Like Superman or Hulk) who can hit levels WAY beyond the norm. With his fists alone, he's taken it to beings way stronger than Namor.

If you include Mjolnir? Thor can literally one-shot kill Namor depending on how powerful the strike is. Just to be clear, this is the more extreme side of things.

Or the average for Fraction Thor I guess. That incarnation didn't f*ck around.

When has Namor endured his lightning? Fyi, his lightning has one-shot people way more powerful than Namor.

Actually, Namor has demonstrated a vulnerability to heat. Scans of this Torch moment?

By extreme, I don't mean the core of the Earth or re-entry. I mean, the heart of exploding Stars and such.

Umm no. Thor has already killed Hammond with god lightning. My point is that the best three here are extremely powerful in their own right. Namor is extremely underrated and has always preformed much better on panel against elite characters than given credit for. Thor, Hulk, Sentry, Black Blot, Beta Ray, Surfer, etc. He's had good showings against them all. I think it really depends on just what Aarkus can do..... but that leads me to be inconclusive. I know he's incapacitated the invaders and a team they were fighting with a wave of his hand, but he's so obscure that he couldn't be given an edge against someone like Thor without much more to back it.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
First of all, I don't think you know what no-selling is. That implies the hammer literally bouncing off to no-effect. If that's ever happened, I'd like to see a scan.

Second, so what? Thor is one of those characters (Like Superman or Hulk) who can hit levels WAY beyond the norm. With his fists alone, he's taken it to beings way stronger than Namor.

If you include Mjolnir? Thor can literally one-shot kill Namor depending on how powerful the strike is. Just to be clear, this is the more extreme side of things.

Or the average for Fraction Thor I guess. That incarnation didn't f*ck around.

When has Namor endured his lightning? Fyi, his lightning has one-shot people way more powerful than Namor.

Actually, Namor has demonstrated a vulnerability to heat. Scans of this Torch moment?

By extreme, I don't mean the core of the Earth or re-entry. I mean, the heart of exploding Stars and such. he's been hit several times with the hammer in different fights and kept fighting undetered. Fact.

Never said the torch was a threat individually. I said he may have an affect as a member of this team. I've read every Torch appearance so I know Thor has killed him. How did you come to the conclusion that Thor could drain his flame either. I'm not sure why you felt the need to address it honestly. Moving on....

Namor being susceptible to dehydration by way of heat is a writer's mistake. They don't know enough about the character to be aware that he's actually highly resistant to temp extremes and that his skin is fire proof. Like I said he's endured nova flame and it took three torches to over heat him. Jim said himself that Namor is fire proof and he should know. Namor is obviously more heat resistant than characters like iron man (whom Hammond killed quickly with flame, Captain Britain(whom Hammond easily defeated) and Ms marvel and Wonder Man(whom Hammond oneshotted)

Originally posted by namorsubby
Umm no. Thor has already killed Hammond with god lightning. My point is that the best three here are extremely powerful in their own right. Namor is extremely underrated and has always preformed much better on panel against elite characters than given credit for. Thor, Hulk, Sentry, Black Blot, Beta Ray, Surfer, etc. He's had good showings against them all. I think it really depends on just what Aarkus can do..... but that leads me to be inconclusive. I know he's incapacitated the invaders and a team they were fighting with a wave of his hand, but he's so obscure that he couldn't be given an edge against someone like Thor without much more to back it.

Great points. Namor is a powerhouse, this can not be taken away from him, but Thor is so powerful that if he comes in with the amount of aggression that he is capable of, I don't see him losing this. It won't be a walk in the park for sure, but just look at his performance against Glory alone. This is above the pay grade of this team IMO.

Originally posted by Stoic
Let's call a spade a spade here Zop It's getting Digi in here now.

Originally posted by namorsubby
he's been hit several times with the hammer in different fights and kept fighting undetered. Fact.

That's cool.

It's also a fact that could literally kill Namor in a single attack. Thor's done everything from incinerate with one attack an amped Ulik to wrecking a being 4 times his strength with his fists.

Namor's tough, and powerful, and like I said, when hydrated, nearly on par with Thor in strength a great deal of the time, but he's nowhere near as powerful when Thor kicks it up a notch or goes all out.

Originally posted by namorsubby
Never said the torch was a threat individually. I said he may have an affect as a member of this team. I've read every Torch appearance so I know Thor has killed him. How did you come to the conclusion that Thor could drain his flame either. I'm not sure why you felt the need to address it honestly. Moving on....

In what way will he have an effect. Being a Norse God, Thor prefers cooler climates but Torch cannot harm him.

You're saying Thor couldn't drain Jim's flames?

Originally posted by namorsubby
Namor being susceptible to dehydration by way of heat is a writer's mistake. They don't know enough about the character to be aware that he's actually highly resistant to temp extremes and that his skin is fire proof. Like I said he's endured nova flame and it took three torches to over heat him. Jim said himself that Namor is fire proof and he should know. Namor is obviously more heat resistant than characters like iron man (whom Hammond killed quickly with flame, Captain Britain(whom Hammond easily defeated) and Ms marvel and Wonder Man(whom Hammond oneshotted)

Well, I've seen Namor being susceptible to heat based attacks and dehydration on many occasions. I'm not saying he can't take heat based attacks, at times it takes a great deal to wear him down, but he still does not enjoy heat based attacks, and some times, he's downright vulnerable to them.

Which is why Mjolnir's ability to project intense heat and energy can end him.

Why is Namor obviously more resistant than those characters? Are you saying that because in one appearance, he had a good showing, and in another completely unrelated set of appearances, Hammond had a good run?

I've seen the Human Torch ruin Namor's day with heat. I've seen even less.

Also, scans of Hammond against Captain Britain/Wonder Man/Iron Man please.

Thor operating on average should beat this team with some decent difficulty.

Thor going all "dynamic strength" would obliterate this team though.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
That's cool.

It's also a fact that could literally kill Namor in a single attack. Thor's done everything from incinerate with one attack an amped Ulik to wrecking a being 4 times his strength with his fists.

Namor's tough, and powerful, and like I said, when hydrated, nearly on par with Thor in strength a great deal of the time, but he's nowhere near as powerful when Thor kicks it up a notch or goes all out.



In what way will he have an effect. Being a Norse God, Thor prefers cooler climates but Torch cannot harm him.

You're saying Thor couldn't drain Jim's flames?



Well, I've seen Namor being susceptible to heat based attacks and dehydration on many occasions. I'm not saying he can't take heat based attacks, at times it takes a great deal to wear him down, but he still does not enjoy heat based attacks, and some times, he's downright vulnerable to them.

Which is why Mjolnir's ability to project intense heat and energy can end him.

Why is Namor obviously more resistant than those characters? Are you saying that because in one appearance, he had a good showing, and in another completely unrelated set of appearances, Hammond had a good run?

I've seen the Human Torch ruin Namor's day with heat. I've seen even less.

Also, scans of Hammond against Captain Britain/Wonder Man/Iron Man please. Multiple encounters between these two characters on panel have shown namor can contend. He's not one shotting him and he never has.

Your saying Namor is supposed to be more susceptible to heat than others but he's proven on multiple occasions to be more durable against extreme heat than other super durable beings vs the same character.

How would Thor drain Hammonds flame exactly?

I find it difficult to believe that Hammond would have absolutely zero effect on Thor. I don't even think he has a ceiling as far as his hot he can get. The invaders scene where Thor blew out his flame at it's "full power" was always stupid to me. He's obviously been much hotter and more powerful than that instance on several occasions. Taking out those characters I've already named with flame, burrowing to the earths core, burning under the ocean, etc. He's even said he could destroy the earth with flame. And check the link below for every feat I've mentioned concerning him

Also, you guys are completely ignoring imo the most powerful member of this team. I understand you have no knowledge of the original vision...... but he's still in this fight.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Thor operating on average should beat this team with some decent difficulty.

Thor going all "dynamic strength" would obliterate this team though. this

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus

Actually, Namor has demonstrated a vulnerability to heat. Scans of this Torch moment?

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/TheNinjaKitty/The_Torch_005_010.jpg

While not selling Namor short, this fight is Thor's to lose, IMO.

Thor with no hammer against this team would be a better fight.

I seem to recall Thor knocking Namor out by accident, in heavy rain no less.

Originally posted by Khazra Reborn
I seem to recall Thor knocking Namor out by accident, in heavy rain no less.

I believe that the instance that you are referring to was said to be a weakened Namor. I didn't actually know that he was weakened either, but Carver said that he was in fact weakened during that exchange. All the same, even a healthy Namor wouldn't last long against the cosmic storms that Thor can whip up... none of these guys can.

In the same comic it was reference (a couple of pages after Thor koed him or the next page...can't remember) that Namor was weakened. Give me the issue and the issue number and I will post the scan.

I don't think he was weakened, at least not in the traditional "he was dehydrated" sense, obviously due to the rain. If he was weakened does anyone know in what way?

Can't remember off hand why he was weakened but it was stated right after Thor dropped him.