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Jumped the gun and made the thread.

Discuss Game of Thrones (The show) while being free to discuss the books, to keep from spoiling those who only watch the show (And are as such sissies).

Look at that rebel!!!


So, yeah, I'm excited about the next ep, not just because of the obvious reason, but because I really want to know Shae's fate. It seems to me that if they go the way of the book that may make Tyrion quite unlikable to some people in the show.

If Shae follows her book counterparts that will make her seem almost bipolar in persona. I mean, to be honest show Shae's actions in the trial alone honestly seemed weirdly out of character and overly petty. Shae's persona is one change I'm not fond of.

i don't care about shae's fate anymore.

they completely ruined her character with the whole "true love" divergence from the books and by making her a smart and brave heroin. ffs in season 2 she threatened one of cersei's handmaids with a knife to her neck just to protect sansa.

then *BAM* she's acting like a jealous, cowardly, stupid and irrational infant. it's not even the same person. they need to stop screwing up characters like this.

just throw her out the moon door for all i care and don't even bother to pan down to see her fall.

IMO, they're going to go with Shae always being Tywin's spy, but she did end up falling in love with Tyrion and then betrayed him due to Tyrion sending her away and Tywin's threats.

So when Tyrion kills her, his rage is somewhat justified due to the initial trickery.

if they do that, they are going to make shae an even more colossal waste of time.

this was forced clumsy and LAZY character turning not even worthy of a pro wrestling plotline.

Originally posted by focus4chumps
i don't care about shae's fate anymore.

they completely ruined her character with the whole "true love" divergence from the books and by making her a smart and brave heroin. ffs in season 2 she threatened one of cersei's handmaids with a knife to her neck just to protect sansa.

then *BAM* she's acting like a jealous, cowardly, stupid and irrational infant. it's not even the same person. they need to stop screwing up characters like this.

just throw her out the moon door for all i care and don't even bother to pan down to see her fall.

Also I'm not for Shae being Tywin's spy. He's not omniscient, and there is no way he could have known Tyrion would choose her.

I don't get the Shae discussion you guys are having, at all. I don't see much of a difference between show-Shae and book-Shae. They are largely the same.

In the book, she became a snooty, b*tch-ass to Tyrion because Tyrion pushed her away (on purpose...to save her life). She betrayed Tyrion because she was acting like an immature child and took her betrayal to Cersei.


How is this different from what happened in the show? That's pretty much the same exact thing that happened in the show....


She is going to be choked to death, next week, by Tyrion. That's going to happen.

In the book she didn't have any emotional attachment to Tyrion. At all. She was always in it for the money, and her behavior concerning his marriage to Sansa is very different.

"Oh who cares about her? She's just a girl. You'll bed her for your duty, but always come back to me for your pleasure."

Or some shit like that. She wasn't jealous at all because she didn't care about Tyrion.

Her betrayal came about because someone more powerful came along.

Originally posted by dadudemon
I don't get the Shae discussion you guys are having, at all. I don't see much of a difference between show-Shae and book-Shae. They are largely the same.

In the book, she became a snooty, b*tch-ass to Tyrion because Tyrion pushed her away (on purpose...to save her life). She betrayed Tyrion because she was acting like an immature child and took her betrayal to Cersei.


How is this different from what happened in the show? That's pretty much the same exact thing that happened in the show....


She is going to be choked to death, next week, by Tyrion. That's going to happen.

so basically you never watched season 2. you probably should.

I forget, when Tyrion was going to marry her off to some lower Knight, was she okay with that?

I don't even know if he told her to be honest. Probably not, since he has way less money than Tyrion.

Edit: The wiki says that he was charged with murdering Joffrey before he could act on that.

Yeah, can't recall either, just that was his plan to keep her safe from Cersei's suspicions.

Her betrayal was very Bronn-like in the books, iirc. Someone else came up with a better offer.

ok here's a good 'first crackpot theory of the thead' i've been meaning to share. last ep when tyrion says "matricide, patricide, infanticide, suicide...there's no kind of killing that doesn't have its own word." is that foreshadowing?

matricide- tyrion kills his mother while being born

patricide- tyrion kills his father

infanticide- ?

suicide- ?

order of his words was curious, imho. could it be that tyrion will accidentally kill a child and then kill himself after being consumed by guilt?

Originally posted by NemeBro
In the book she didn't have any emotional attachment to Tyrion. At all. She was always in it for the money, and her behavior concerning his marriage to Sansa is very different.

"Oh who cares about her? She's just a girl. You'll bed her for your duty, but always come back to me for your pleasure."

Or some shit like that. She wasn't jealous at all because she didn't care about Tyrion.

Her betrayal came about because someone more powerful came along.

Wait...wait...


She was jealous in the books, too.


Almost everything you're saying happened in the books and the movies. I see little difference in Show-Shae and Book-Shae, still.



To recap on what is the same:


Shae was most assuredly in it for the money in both the show and the books.

Shae cared for Tyrion in both the show and the book but we do not know to what extent she cared for Tyrion in either. It may have been a pragmatic thing with no sentimental attachment. It may have been a huge sentimental attachment. All we know it she cared in both.

Shae, throwing a fit because Tyrion rejected her, betrayed Tyrion to Cersei. This happened in both the books and the show.



So where is the major divergent differences?


Originally posted by focus4chumps
ok here's a good 'first crackpot theory of the thead' i've been meaning to share. last ep when tyrion says "matricide, patricide, infanticide, suicide...there's no kind of killing that doesn't have its own word." is that foreshadowing?

matricide- tyrion kills his mother while being born

patricide- tyrion kills his father

infanticide- ?

suicide- ?

order of his words was curious, imho. could it be that tyrion will accidentally kill a child and then kill himself after being consumed by guilt?

No. It doesn't not portend to anything. It was additional dialogue added to the show that wasn't in the books. It was jazzing up the "Jaime visits Tyrion in his cell" dialogue that happened in the books.

I don't really blame book Shae, for what it's worth.

If the queen has you dragged to her and tells you to say shit in a trial, what are you supposed to say? No?

Originally posted by dadudemon
Wait...wait...

She was jealous in the books, too.

Almost everything you're saying happened in the books and the movies. I see little difference in Show-Shae and Book-Shae, still.

To recap on what is the same:

Shae was most assuredly in it for the money in both the show and the books.

Shae cared for Tyrion in both the show and the book but we do not know to what extent she cared for Tyrion in either. It may have been a pragmatic thing with no sentimental attachment. It may have been a huge sentimental attachment. All we know it she cared in both.

Shae, throwing a fit because Tyrion rejected her, betrayed Tyrion to Cersei. This happened in both the books and the show.

So where is the major divergent differences? No, you're wrong.

Memory hazy, but I'm pretty sure book Shae only cared about Tyrion's money; she never had greater feelings for him than: "He's a fun guy who pays me well to be his whore." Bronn probably cared for Tyrion more.

I remember thinking back when show Shae first appeared and not liking that she was made to be kind and caring.

Originally posted by Robtard
Memory hazy, but I'm pretty sure book Shae only cared about Tyrion's money; she never had greater feelings for him than: "He's a fun guy who pays me well to be his whore." Bronn probably cared for Tyrion more.

I remember thinking back when show Shae first appeared and not liking that she was made to be kind and caring.


in the books it was made quite clear over and over just what shae really was about. it was never up for interpretation.*

* (see events prior to every one of tyrion's "fool of a dwarf" internal monologues)

Originally posted by NemeBro
I don't really blame book Shae, for what it's worth.

If the queen has you dragged to her and tells you to say shit in a trial, what are you supposed to say? No?

If I'm a greedy piece of shit that was in it for the money, in the beginning, and I was asked to betray my former lover who just utterly and completely rejected (and dejected) me, yeah, that's a pretty easy decision to make.

Especially if you consider that GRRM is mildly sexist, he is definitely using the "a woman scorned" idea with Shae's character.

Originally posted by NemeBro
No, you're wrong.

K. But at least you don't "argue" like Epicurus. I'm still open to specific examples which contradict my position if they exist. The knife to the neck thing...bleh. Can still be justified as her trying her best to earn more favor to your money machine.

But how was Shae rejected in the books? Not remembering that.

Seems to me it went down:

-Tyrion was genuinely worried about Shae and made plans to keep her safe
-Joff's death ruined that
-Cersei got to Shae and paid her off to lie

Originally posted by Robtard
But how was Shae rejected in the books? Not remembering that.

Very similarly as the show. He was wroth and rejected her...to scare her aware to get her away from Cersei.

Originally posted by Robtard
But how was Shae rejected in the books? Not remembering that.

iirc tyrion had planned to marry her off to a knight, like you said, but shae felt she deserved a better payoff. i don't remember exactly how it unfolded though.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Very similarly as the show. He was wroth and rejected her...to scare her aware to get her aware from Cersei.

you're wrong

I, too, think that dadudemon is wrong...

Originally posted by Robtard
But how was Shae rejected in the books? Not remembering that.

Seems to me it went down:

-Tyrion was genuinely worried about Shae and made plans to keep her safe
-Joff's death ruined that
-Cersei got to Shae and paid her off to lie You forgot to add "Cersei seduced Shae sexually".

Originally posted by dadudemon
Very similarly as the show. He was wroth and rejected her...to scare her aware to get her aware from Cersei.

So you're saying book Shae was butthurt over a rejection of love, as show Shae seems to be.

I don't recall that at all and it doesn't fit with the bits I do recall. Book Shae was little more than a gold-digger, is the image I have. I remember Marius and I discussing show Shae last season and how her apparent genuine kindness and affections would screw with book events when it came to Tyrion killing her.

Originally posted by NemeBro
You forgot to act "Cersei seduced Shae sexually".


My error.

You forgot to add: "by playing with her ass."

Originally posted by Robtard
My error.

You forgot to add: "by playing with her ass." *arse

Originally posted by Robtard
So you're saying book Shae was butthurt over a rejection of love, as show Shae seems to be.

I don't recall that at all and it doesn't fit with the bits I do recall. Shae was little more than a gold-digger. I remember Marius and I discussing show Shae last season and how her apparent genuine kindness and affections would screw with book events when it came to Tyrion killing her.

she was butthurt because she was not a guest at the wedding. remember her bitching to tyron "why can't i go? i'll pretend to not be a whore, i promise, etc" (paraphrased of course).

no angry outbursts from tyrion. only times he called her a whore is in his internal monologue in an attempt to convince himself to no trust her.

Shae's actress did porn before becoming an actor.

Just so everyone knows.

Originally posted by focus4chumps
iirc tyrion had planned to marry her off to a knight, like you said, but shae felt she deserved a better payoff. i don't remember exactly how it unfolded though.



you're wrong

No, I'm not.


Tyrion never got to disclose those plans to Shae when he made them because he was imprisoned before he could talk to Shae about them.


BRB, gonna find where Tyrion tried to verbally push Shae away (it happened at least twice in the books).

Originally posted by Robtard
So you're saying book Shae was butthurt over a rejection of love, as show Shae seems to be.

Seems more likely that she was butthurt over the loss of her money train.

Show Shae was given a bunch of money and riches in order to persuade her to leave, but chose to stay for twue wuv.

Can book Shae say the same?

good luck, because that scene NEVER HAPPENED in the book.

did he say some dickish things to her over the course of their relationship? probably. but thats not what you said before. you said he dumped her "Very similarly as the show. He was wroth and rejected her...to scare her aware to get her away from Cersei." , but fact is he never dumped her and had planned on doing so kindly and even planned on hooking her up with a knight.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Show Shae was given a bunch of money and riches in order to persuade her to leave, but chose to stay for twue wuv.

Can book Shae say the same?

Which somewhat plays into what I think might happen, show Shae had always been a spy and why she refused.

At least that's better than her falling madly in love with Tyrion and then betraying him cos A) He sent her off to keep her alive B) Tywin/Cersei forced her with threats. As that's going to look badly on Tyrion when he kills her, since Tyrion of all people would understand how well his father and sister are at intimidation.

Found it.

Chapter 13 of A Storm of Swords. That's where Tyrion seemingly rejects Shae in an attempt to send her away. Shae isn't even subtle about wanting money and goods from Tyrion, at this point:

"Will m'lord give me back my jewels and silks, now? I asked Varys if I could have them when you were hurt in the battle, but he wouldn't give them to me. What would have become of them if you'd died?"

Later Tyrion gets angry with her:

"Shae, gods be damned, stop that. Listen to me. You have to go away..."

More is incoming as I find more...

So you agree that book Shae was nothing more than a gold digger?

Yeah, that's not show Shae at all. That's the Shae I remember, money, money, money.

christ do we have to do this EVERY TIME?

Originally posted by Robtard
But how was Shae rejected in the books? Not remembering that.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Very similarly as the show. He was wroth and rejected her...to scare her aware to get her away from Cersei.

stop trying to prove that tyrion was periodically a dick to her, as nobody contradicted that. you said that the dump scene happened in the books. it didn't. lets just move on and not ruin this thread, ok?

Originally posted by NemeBro
So you agree that book Shae was nothing more than a gold digger?

I thought both were gold diggers. I had no idea I was supposed to be proving one side or the other: I thought I was proving both sides that Shae was a gold digger in the books, too. I did not know that the show was in question (I thought the opposite).

Originally posted by focus4chumps
stop trying to prove that tyrion was periodically a dick to her, as nobody contradicted that. you said that the dump scene happened in the books. it didn't. lets just move on and not ruin this thread, ok?

Nah, it did and I quotted it.


But don't twist my point to mean what you want it to mean just to be right about something. At best, your argument is one of degrees, at the worst, you're completely and utterly wrong.

Show Shae clearly cared about more than Tyrion's wallet though.

Show Shae doesn't appear to be a gold digger, as pointed out: Tyrion offered her a life of ease and wealth in Braavos(?); she turned it down.

Her love for Tyrion seems genuine, which will be the troubling part when he chokes her to death.

And the second time I am remembering is just Tyrion talking about it with others, he didn't actually say it to her, directly.

So, yes, two times, like I said...I just thought he told her two times.

Originally posted by dadudemon

Nah, it did and I quotted it.


But don't twist my point to mean what you want it to mean just to be right about something. At best, your argument is one of degrees, at the worst, you're completely and utterly wrong.

you are ONCE AGAIN being a spiteful, evasive, and deceptive troll because of your inability confront even your most trivial errors.

Originally posted by Robtard
Show Shae doesn't appear to be a gold digger, as pointed out: Tyrion offered her a life of ease and wealth in Braavos(?); she turned it down.

With only a moderate stipend.


You interpret that to be sentimentality, I interpret that to be her being greedy and wanting more than a moderate stipend.

Originally posted by Robtard
Her love for Tyrion seems genuine, which will be the troubling part when he chokes her to death.

I don't think that. She did not seem genuine about her love in the show, to me. She seemed like a gold digger who was just a dumber version of Petyr.

Originally posted by focus4chumps
you are ONCE AGAIN being a spiteful, evasive, and deceptive troll because of your inability confront even your most trivial errors. ffs getting tired of your shit

Dude...calm down. You're the one that keeps quotting me and forcing points of argument on me (ones that I am not making).

Sure, Tyrion didn't call her a whore to her face in the books, because SHAE SAID IT HERSELF in the books in the "parallel" scene. But he did try to send her away which, for me, was interpreted as a rejection by Tyrion which is why I think Shae betrayed him in the books. In the show, because people are stupid, it was spelled out more clearly with Tyrion going ape-shit on her when he rejected her.

Saw that edit where you scaled back your misplaced rage. I added it back in by hitting the back button in the browser. Nice try.

............anyway, crackpot theory #2:

arya will be killed by the house of the undying for breaking her vow to let go of her previous identity, posessions, and especially grudges.

just before dying, arya will warg into nymeria.


i really dont want this to happen but i really think it will happen.

Anyways, the Shae character in the show seems to react very differently, and ostensibly is influenced by completely different motives, than the Shae character in the books.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Anyways, the Shae character in the show seems to react very differently, and ostensibly is influenced by completely different motives, than the Shae character in the books.

I disagree. Here's a point that illustrates part of why I disagree:

Originally posted by dadudemon
With only a moderate stipend.


You interpret that to be sentimentality, I interpret that to be her being greedy and wanting more than a moderate stipend.



I don't think that. She did not seem genuine about her love in the show, to me. She seemed like a gold digger who was just a dumber version of Petyr.


Basically, I think they are both gold diggers and we will see that in this next episode where Shae shows her true colors to Tyrion before he chokes her. Keep in mind, she has to say something that gets Tyrion to choke her to death on Sunday.

That's not so much a point why you disagree, but a repetition of your feelings of disagreement, but fair enough, I mean I find the arguments brought by the others in the thread here immensely compelling, and yours strenuous at best, but we don't have to agree on everything, we can still get married.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Saw that edit where you scaled back your misplaced rage. I added it back in by hitting the back button in the browser. Nice try.


"lol i trol u"

Originally posted by dadudemon
With only a moderate stipend.

You interpret that to be sentimentality, I interpret that to be her being greedy and wanting more than a moderate stipend.

I don't think that. She did not seem genuine about her love in the show, to me. She seemed like a gold digger who was just a dumber version of Petyr.

It would have been more than she currently had, which was working for a living and getting the odd gift from Tyrion after she sucked on his cock, no? It also would have meant she was safe from his father's wrath of: "next whore I'll hang". (why imo, she might have been a spy from the start in the show)

If show Shae just wanted more money, she probably could have asked and Tyrion would have provided, since he's in love with her.

Disagree, obviously, show Shae seems like actual affection/love up to the point of her dismissal. Guess we'll have to see how it plays out.

so basically it will be 15 pages of ddm denying that he made the patently false statement that he made, and we can't discuss anything else. fine i guess i'll just evacuate this nonesense.

Or you could just agree to disagree and move on. You could do that too.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Or you could just agree to disagree and move on. You could do that too.

doesnt matter what i decide. it's been decided. don't believe me? watch.

Why do you believe dadudemon has power over you?

Originally posted by NemeBro
Why do you believe dadudemon has power over you?

Probably cause he does...

Originally posted by NemeBro
Why do you believe dadudemon has power over you?

did you misunderstand me or is it "trolololo"?

k well have fun

I understand that dadudemon can only troll you (If indeed he is) if you let him.

Originally posted by NemeBro
I understand that dadudemon can only troll you (If indeed he is) if you let him.

The troll is all in your mind!!!

So...who here thinks Jon lives?

Oh, I doubt he's dead with a capital D.

Melisandre might end up resurrecting him, but I'd prefer that not be what happened.

I'd much prefer him just survive the stabbing and be wounded, lol.

Bran 2.0

Originally posted by NemeBro
I understand that dadudemon can only troll you (If indeed he is) if you let him.

i was referring to topic derailment, but of course you knew that.

Originally posted by Bardock42
So...who here thinks Jon lives?

it's been all but confirmed that he will be back in some form. better not be junior stoneheart or i am so done with this story.

Originally posted by Bardock42
So...who here thinks Jon lives?

I'm going with Jon being the prophesied one reborn and not ugly bald Stannis.

Though I'm not so sure how I feel about that in the bigger picture.

Originally posted by Robtard
I'm going with Jon being the prophesied one reborn and not ugly bald Stannis.

Though I'm not so sure how I feel about that in the bigger picture.

crackpot theory #3

melisandre burns stannis's daughter while he is off and presumed dead. (already hinted at 2 eps ago) jon stabs her through the heart with longclaw as an act of mercy. longclaw becomes the real lightbringer.

Jon doesn't love Shireen though.

Also come on dude. Patchface will be the one to kill her.

You guys are idiots. Shireen is the third head of the dragon.

The third head of the dragon is Tormund's member moron.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Jon doesn't love Shireen though.

i dont recall anything that said the sacrifice had to be a loved one.

i know what would make many people draw that conclusion, since azor killed his wife, but i don't believe that was ever set as a rule. just that a human soul needed to be binded to the sword.
Originally posted by Bardock42
You guys are idiots. Shireen is the third head of the dragon.

thats the stupidest thing i've read all day. well played.

This thread was a terrible idea, obviously you all couldn't bring together cognitive abilities to rival Hodor if you pooled together twice!!!!

Originally posted by Bardock42
HODOR!!!!

hodor?

Originally posted by focus4chumps
i dont recall anything that said the sacrifice had to be a loved one.

i know what would make many people draw that conclusion, since azor killed his wife, but i don't believe that was ever set as a rule. just that a human soul needed to be binded to the sword. Why the **** would you kill your wife when any soul would do? Why wouldn't you bring a prisoner from the dungeons who was to die anyway and kill him?

Originally posted by NemeBro
Why the **** would you kill your wife when any soul would do? Why wouldn't you bring a prisoner from the dungeons who was to die anyway and kill him?

He didn't like his wife.

Further throwing a wrench in your "only true love" bullshit theory.

I'll throw a wrench in your ass.

westeros, where marriage = love.

Originally posted by NemeBro
I'll throw a wrench in your ass.

Why do I constantly get the feeling that you are coming on to me???

i thought it was a fat joke, tbh

Originally posted by focus4chumps
i thought it was a fat joke, tbh

They often go hand in hand.

Originally posted by focus4chumps
westeros, where marriage = love. He killed her with "a heavy heart".

You're gay and not good at basketball.

Originally posted by Bardock42
They often go hand in hand. Just like us.

Originally posted by NemeBro
He killed her with "a heavy heart".

couldnt have anything to do with him performing a human sacrifice? must be "true love"? no evidence needed?

Why did he kill his wife instead of someone else?

On a side note, there should be a decent level of butthurt from the non book readers after Tywin dies while taking a shit.

The cliffhanger of Jon being stabbed should also provide much rage in the coming seasons.

Man I can't wait until the former happens.

I'm drooling all over my boner in wait.

i can see where the common assumption is drawn, but still he only tells her that he loves her. it's not a certainty that this is a requirement. only certainty is that a human sacrifice is needed because the animal sacrifice failed.

*edit* http://booksfreeonline.net/Fiction/A_Clash_of_Kings/10.html

Originally posted by Robtard
On a side note, there should be a decent level of butthurt from the non book readers after Tywin dies while taking a shit.

he had better shit when he dies. i need to see that bastard brought low. also that smile at his funeral.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Man I can't wait until the former happens.

I'm drooling all over my boner in wait.

Yeah, almost felt bad readings Digi's "it would affect me most if Tywin dies", but then I lold.

Originally posted by focus4chumps
he had better shit when he dies. i need to see that bastard brought low. also that smile at his funeral.

Will be upsetting if there are no juicy sound effects, or if they do away completely with him sitting on the everyman's throne when he dies.

Originally posted by Robtard
Will be upsetting if there are no juicy sound effects, or if they do away completely with him sitting on the everyman's throne when he dies.

that would be deeply offensive to me if they leave that out. that was pure concentrated justice, exactly how he died...imo. same with joff.
instead of the brutality we wished for, we got humiliation...an acceptable compensation. they had better not take that away.

Tywin dying on the shitter is the perfect way for him to go and the only reason to change that is either hack writing or the show being unjustly in love with him. Which might be the case with them significantly lessening his doucheiness and making him more awesome.

As book readers, we need to accept the babbification of the show.

Originally posted by Bardock42
That's not so much a point why you disagree, but a repetition of your feelings of disagreement, but fair enough, I mean I find the arguments brought by the others in the thread here immensely compelling, and yours strenuous at best, but we don't have to agree on everything, we can still get married.

Okay, fair enough.

I just see her as a gold digger in both. It is possible that my opinion is tainted because I read the books before I saw those episodes (confirmation bias). I also see her interpreting Tyrion's words as rejection and her causal subsequent migration to Tywin as being similar and understandable in both mediums.

Originally posted by Robtard
It would have been more than she currently had, which was working for a living and getting the odd gift from Tyrion after she sucked on his cock, no? It also would have meant she was safe from his father's wrath of: "next whore I'll hang". (why imo, she might have been a spy from the start in the show)

If show Shae just wanted more money, she probably could have asked and Tyrion would have provided, since he's in love with her.

Disagree, obviously, show Shae seems like actual affection/love up to the point of her dismissal. Guess we'll have to see how it plays out.

Well, I see her playing hardball rather than her passing up a good opportunity. That's why she rejected the stipend offer (she knew she could get more).

Originally posted by Nephthys
Tywin dying on the shitter is the perfect way for him to go and the only reason to change that is either hack writing or the show being unjustly in love with him. Which might be the case with them significantly lessening his doucheiness and making him more awesome.

Uhhh...yup.

Which I still don't buy into. No matter how many cool thing he does or how great Dance is as an actor, I still think Tywin's suuuch a dick. F*ck that guy.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Which I still don't buy into. No matter how many cool thing he does or how great Dance is as an actor, I still think Tywin's suuuch a dick. F*ck that guy.

Serious question (and why I think GRRM wrote the character as he did), does he remind you of your father? Tywin reminds me of father. It's why he pisses me off but I like him, too. His character hits close to home, at times.

Oh god no. My father is a hippie who hasn't worked in 20 years. He's Tywin's opposite.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Oh god no. My father is a hippie who hasn't worked in 20 years. He's Tywin's opposite.

Oh.

Well, Tywin used to be my favorite until I got to the part in the books where he was a massive dick to Tyrion when Tyrion asked for something, anything, for his valor on the battlefield.

We'll get the King's Landing bits in the season finale. Pretty sure next episode is all wildlings vs Night's Watch.

There's a mammoth in the preview.

I wonder if we'll get to see what's below the black cells that varys told tyrion not to look at

Yeah, I can see Tywin's death as being towards the last 15mins of the last ep.

We'll also likely see Tyrion fleeing across the sea and sad, sad, sad, Jorah making his way as well. They made Jorah's plight worse in the show, he all but doomed himself in the book cos of his pride; in the show it was rather sad.

know who I cant wait for? penny. they better not ditch penny.

Jorah's another character who is much more likeable in the show. In the books since Dany is like 14 he's kind of a obsessed pedo slaver.

yeah he was way more disrespectful.

in the books dany banished him because he refused to throw himself at her mercy and made excuses. she kinda wanted to forgive him, but he left her no way to do so while saving face as a ruler.

what im saying is that show-jorah would likely have earned book-dany's forgiveness since he immediately did just that.

Which is funny, since show Dany basically took all of 5 seconds to forgive Selmy, no?

since we keep brushing up on the topic i'll just say it

show-dany is really turning into a psychopathic *******. there I said it and feel better because I did.

Originally posted by Robtard
Which is funny, since show Dany basically took all of 5 seconds to forgive Selmy, no?

Right after he'd saved her life, sure.


Also, the thing I'm looking forward to the most next season is Cersei completely shitting the bed as a ruler and becoming a insane, idiotic, paranoid drunkard. Her chapters were the funniest things ever because she's sooooooo dumb and self-congratulatory of her stupidity.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Right after he'd saved her life, sure.


Also, the thing I'm looking forward to the most next season is Cersei completely shitting the bed as a ruler and becoming a insane, idiotic, paranoid drunkard. Her chapters were the funniest things ever because she's sooooooo dumb.

Jorah's saved her life a few times, sure one of them was because his actions had put her in danger, but Selmy betraying her father and brother is likely worse than show-Jorah's actions overall. Show-Jorah gets in kinda raw.

Ha.

I'm irked we get no Victarion.

Don't understand the love for Victarion. He's a stupid, unlikeable thug with no redeeming qualities.

He's a Viking on a mission. Why do you hate white people?

I like Dany. estahuh

Who is totally not crazy btw.

So who's still to die in the next 2 episodes?

Ygritte, Tywin and Shae? Is that it? I was hoping to see Lady Stoneheart and Coldhands this season.

Sounds right. Any of the higher up Crows die during the attack on Castle Black? Can't recall.

I'd not be surprised if we get a glimpse of at least one of those as the closer.

Originally posted by focus4chumps
know who I cant wait for? penny. they better not ditch penny. I am pretty sure all the dwarfs seen at Joffrey's wedding were dudes... Sooooo...

Originally posted by Nephthys
Jorah's another character who is much more likeable in the show. In the books since Dany is like 14 he's kind of a obsessed pedo slaver. 14 years old is practically 20 by the standards of the time.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Don't understand the love for Victarion. He's a stupid, unlikeable thug with no redeeming qualities. He is the last hope of Westeros.

Dragon and kraken must be wed. For the sake of the kingdom.

Originally posted by NemeBro
I am pretty sure all the dwarfs seen at Joffrey's wedding were dudes... Sooooo...

Bridget the Porn Midget is always looking for work

Originally posted by jaden101
So who's still to die in the next 2 episodes?

Ygritte, Tywin and Shae? Is that it? I was hoping to see Lady Stoneheart and Coldhands this season.

ep 10 is called "the children", and the actor who plays the 3 eyed raven was cast this season. so if there's a show version of coldhands then I think we'll see him...but I don't think there's gonna be a coldhands

as for stoneheart, i'm banking on it. I hope they'll have her kill black walder and/or lame lothar via slow hanging

Originally posted by NemeBro
I am pretty sure all the dwarfs seen at Joffrey's wedding were dudes... Sooooo...

and they were not riding pigs and dogs, and the writers are free to introduce characters as they please soooooo....

I suppose that's true but if you take away that angle the plotline works a lot less well, on a logical and emotional level.

Theoretically. I don't give a **** about Penny.

all that would be required are 1-she had a father/brother/husband who was killed because of cersei's bounty on tyrion, and 2-she knows who tyrion is when she sees him, maybe simply by hearing someone like jorah call him by name. everything else would just fall into place, minus tyrion riding a pig

Originally posted by NemeBro
14 years old is practically 20 by the standards of the time.

I know. It still makes him a lot skeevier than in the show. He's 45 or something, ew.

Originally posted by jaden101
So who's still to die in the next 2 episodes?

Ygritte, Tywin and Shae? Is that it? I was hoping to see Lady Stoneheart and Coldhands this season.

That's right...we should have seen Coldhands, already. Why did they **** that up?

Originally posted by Robtard
Sounds right. Any of the higher up Crows die during the attack on Castle Black? Can't recall.

Ummm...yes.

This one guy that everyone agrees would have been elected, easily, as the new Commander. Was it the black smith? I can't remember his name or who he was before the battle on the wall. GRRM bored me so much getting up to that point that I glazed over reading some of that shit.

I can't remember. But it was the guy that died in the tunnel against the King of the Giants. He died very badassly, too. I mean, how many men can say that stalemated the most badass Giant Warrior in a fight?


Originally posted by NemeBro
14 years old is practically 20 by the standards of the time.

Correct. You only have to go back 100 years in American history and you will find 14 year old girls marrying 30 year old bachelors.


If my great-grandmother hadn't married at 15, I probably would not exist. But they lived in a different time when dying could happen a lot sooner and dying could come more easily, too. They didn't have time to dick around in school and shitty jobs until their 20s. They had to get married and make as many babies as possible.

The one armed guy. Donal Noyce.

Originally posted by Robtard
The one armed guy. Donal Noyce.

That's even more badass. So it really was the blacksmith?



Donal Noye's battle prowess ranking...


Based on his feat of stalemating Mag Mar, how does he stack up against heavy hitters like whole and healthy Jaime and Gregor?

Mag was in a compromising position and Donal seems to be a large and extremely powerful guy (from smithing), not so sure he's skilled beyond regular soldiering. He is one brave fat **** though.

Originally posted by dadudemon
That's even more badass. So it really was the blacksmith?



Donal Noye's battle prowess ranking...


Based on his feat of stalemating Mag Mar, how does he stack up against heavy hitters like whole and healthy Jaime and Gregor? In terms of bravery he's certainly god tier, but as Robtard implied, in the same circumstance I could see warriors like Jaime, Gregor, Oberyn, Sandor, or whoever doing the same.

So how does everyone feel about the show practically confirming that Victarion's plot is going to amount to nothing in the books?

It's just a fakeout.

Originally posted by NemeBro


So how does everyone feel about the show practically confirming that Victarion's plot is going to amount to nothing in the books?

Explain.

But I don't like it already, as Victarion is kinda a kickass character doing kinda kickass stuff. We don't need another character Drogo'd, is what I am saying.

Well George acts as a consultant for the show, and even a writer for some episodes.

The showrunners, while discussing it with him, obviously brought up trimming the fat of the story to make it more manageable as a tv series.

So the fat man said,"All right listen, you know that guy Victarion? Just cut him. His storyline isn't going to go anywhere anyway, it's just another shaggy dog story."

Speculation? Sure. But why else would they cut him entirely from the show? Victarion is just not going to matter in the long run, IMO.

but as with penny, the show writers are just as free to drop victarion as they are to introduce him in their own fashion.

we know that balon greyjoy is going to die soon, so that could be the opening to introduce vic and/or crows eye.

really there is no evidence to point either way.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Well George acts as a consultant for the show, and even a writer for some episodes.

The showrunners, while discussing it with him, obviously brought up trimming the fat of the story to make it more manageable as a tv series.

So the fat man said,"All right listen, you know that guy Victarion? Just cut him. His storyline isn't going to go anywhere anyway, it's just another shaggy dog story."

Speculation? Sure. But why else would they cut him entirely from the show? Victarion is just not going to matter in the long run, IMO.

So you're guessing. I hope you're wrong.

Also hoping that Focus is correct; once Balon slips and dies, Victarion appears to fill the spot.

Originally posted by focus4chumps
but as with penny, the show writers are just as free to drop victarion as they are to introduce him in their own fashion.

we know that balon greyjoy is going to die soon, so that could be the opening to introduce vic and/or crows eye.

really there is no evidence to point either way. HBO supplementary material mentions Euron as Balon's only brother though. They could change that, but for the moment Victarion does not exist.

Originally posted by focus4chumps
we know that balon greyjoy is going to die soon, so that could be the opening to introduce vic and/or crows eye.

That reminds me...

In the books, his Balon's death was very...lackluster and happened "off-screen." He was walking on a bridge, the wind blew really hard, and he fell to his death. Very anticlimactic.

Then, his death was mentioned in passing in another character's chapter. We didn't really get to learn the details of his death until the story focused on his brother (The Prophet - Aeron).



I sure hope the show does better justice to Balon's death than the books. At least SHOW us his death. But, still...the wind blows, he falls and goes boom. That's going to be funny if shown on screen. Like the prince's "consultant" in Braveheart that the king threw out the window.

Originally posted by NemeBro
HBO supplementary material mentions Euron as Balon's only brother though. They could change that, but for the moment Victarion does not exist.

Dammit, you're right. I was hoping you were wrong but I checked.

Originally posted by NemeBro
HBO supplementary material mentions Euron as Balon's only brother though. They could change that, but for the moment Victarion does not exist.

****ers. I could see then just having Euron and making his story an amalgam of his and Victarion's.

Oh yeah, Balon's death is the greatest in the series.

He's just walking across a bridge... And he falls off. haermm

I for one like to think Euron didn't even have him assassinated. He just fell.

It was during a heavy storm, iirc. Do wonder if GRRM will ever reveal wheather is was an accident of if Euron was behind it. ****er will likely leave it as an unknown.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Oh yeah, Balon's death is the greatest in the series.

He's just walking across a bridge... And he falls off. haermm

I for one like to think Euron didn't even have him assassinated. He just fell.

****

Euron, Balon, Victorion, Aeron...all of those names sound so similar. I am confusing them.


I had no idea that Euron was suspected of killing Balon. Which book does that show up in? Or is that just a fan theory? Aeron did not think that in his "The Prophet" chapter...

Asha herself proposes the theory in... Either A Feast for Crows or A Dance with Dragons, I'm not sure which.

Originally posted by Robtard
It was during a heavy storm, iirc. Do wonder if GRRM will ever reveal wheather is was an accident of if Euron was behind it. ****er will likely leave it as an unknown.

heh, I sea what you did, there.

No, was just a stupid typo.

Well, then...mine wasn't a typo and now I feel foolish.

Originally posted by dadudemon
****

Euron, Balon, Victorion, Aeron...all of those names sound so similar. I am confusing them.


I had no idea that Euron was suspected of killing Balon. Which book does that show up in? Or is that just a fan theory? Aeron did not think that in his "The Prophet" chapter...

Aeron is a well known idiot though.

Aeron is a thug **** you.

Drowned God for life.

Originally posted by Robtard
It was during a heavy storm, iirc. Do wonder if GRRM will ever reveal wheather is was an accident of if Euron was behind it. ****er will likely leave it as an unknown.

I think euron hired a faceless man to kill him. we learn of their methods through arya, and it only makes perfect sense that they would choose a stormy day to push him over. clean with little chance of witnesses.

How could you not suspect Euron of killing Balon? He arrived a day later and proclaimed himself king. It's not like he was even subtle about it.

Also Balon was definitely assassinated. That creepy witch Arya talks to mentions a man without a face waiting on a bridge that swayed in her prophecies. And Asha or Victarion suspects he used a Faceless Man to do it.

Probably Jaqen, dude gets around.

Who was that maester student he offed after he got the kid to steal him a key? Can't even recall what that was leading to, if anything so far.

edit: Pate. Some people think Syrio and Jaqen are the same person/faceless man.

Well that's stupid.

Originally posted by Robtard
Some people think Syrio and Jaqen are the same person/faceless man.

god no