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Ligthsabers can only be used to block attacks
who wins who dies?

if it's a force fight only, do they have their lightsabers to block attacks with, such as lightning?

Does Vitiate?

Pahahahaha Vitiate stomps

Vitiate gets shit on.

Hmmm... this is a difficult one for me to determine.

On one hand, given that they are armed with lightsabers it would be difficult for Vitiate to get the better of them with his lightning. On top of that, Vitiate's opponents are around Revan level, and Revan on his own was giving him some difficulty.

On the other hand, neither of Vitiate's opponents can use their lightsabers for offensive purpose, Vitiate would be hard to overwhelm with the force, and as a result of his ritual I believe Vitiate's true body is more resilient to force attacks/degradation.

This is going to be very close, but I think a deciding factor for the majority of the fights would be Krayt and Kun's ingenuity vs Vitaite's relative tactical retardation (ie. walking into a lightsaber).

I think the team takes a majority here.

He gets blitzed simple as that. Krayt is too fast, and Kun can just hit him with illusions and or disintegrate him with his blasts.

Originally posted by carthage
He gets blitzed simple as that. Krayt is too fast, and Kun can just hit him with illusions and or disintegrate him with his blasts.
He gets blitzed... in a pure force fight?

The HoT couldn't blitz Vitiate when Vitiate was literally inches away from his lightsaber. Krayt isn't going to be blitzing, even if he could.

I may give this to Vitiate.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
He gets blitzed... in a pure force fight?

Blitzed and hit by DT.

Krayt's speed feat is superior to Hots. Vitiate won't be able to react.

Originally posted by carthage
He gets blitzed simple as that. Krayt is too fast, and Kun can just hit him with illusions and or disintegrate him with his blasts. Speed isn't really much of factor in a force fight. A force fight is more of two people standing across from each other shooting powers at each other. Not flipping and running around doing all kinds of acrobatics.

Originally posted by Nephthys
The HoT couldn't blitz Vitiate when Vitiate was literally inches away from his lightsaber. Krayt isn't going to be blitzing, even if he could.

I may give this to Vitiate.

Prove he cant. Hot's speed feats are inferior to Krayts. He's never overwhelmed the senses of multiple force users at once, and Vitiate has never demonstrated anything in the way of speed feats.

Originally posted by carthage
Prove he cant.

Neph's reasoning is weak, but he doesn't have to prove a negative.

Originally posted by carthage
Prove he cant. Hot's speed feats are inferior to Krayts. He's never overwhelmed the senses of multiple force users at once, and Vitiate has never demonstrated anything in the way of speed feats.

The HoT has blitzed multiple force users in cutscenes, actually. And yet it's confirmed that she and Vitiate fought an "apocalyptic duel" despite starting about 2 feet from him.

Vitiate's speed is probably the same as Revan who has moved his shield in a blur. That's it really. He isn't a duelist, he's old decrepit, and in a force match he's fighting two users who aren't that far from him in terms of their ability.

Combine that with the fact even if its just an exchange of their abilities, I'm not seeing him absorb Kun's blasts and Krayt's lightning and or surviving an up close encounter with them both.

Too much is not in his favor

Originally posted by carthage
or surviving an up close encounter with them both.

This is not a lightsaber duel???

Im aware of this but the op doesn't specify about whether or not they have to you know not be mobile or just stand there? Lol. They are still using the force of course.

Whats the difference going to be if they are standing 1 inch away from each other or ten feet? They can still only use the force

Emperor Vitiate is likely to defeat both. It is silly to assume that Kun and Krayt will be able to tank powers of an individual much stronger then them.

Tell me if this sounds ****ing retarded to you guys:

Vitiate is a shitty duelist, so he'd get stomped in a force fight because Krayt could blitz him by running up to him... am I missing something here?

You are retarded.

He has dark transfer, is faster, and Vitiate has no defense against it. He gets blitzed using force speed and killed with a force ability. Vitiate hasn't demonstrated any reaction feat to suggest he can stop it, and he's fighting two people with comparable force power.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Tell me if this sounds ****ing retarded to you guys:

Vitiate is a shitty duelist, so he'd get stomped in a force fight because Krayt could blitz him by running up to him... am I missing something here?
Cartages has infinite wisdom. Our meer mortal brains are incapable of comprehending his undeniable wisdom

Originally posted by carthage
You are retarded.

He has dark transfer, is faster, and Vitiate has no defense against it. He gets blitzed using force speed and killed with a force ability. Vitiate hasn't demonstrated any reaction feat to suggest he can stop it, and he's fighting two people with comparable force power.
Right because we all know how Revan succeeded when he charged Vitiate.

Actually, Carthage has a fair point. If Krayt can get up close with Dark Transfer, it's all over for Vitiate.

Please point me in the direction of a superior speed feat from Revan that beats Krayt's blitzing of 4 knights, keeping up with a younger and fitter Cade Skywalker etc.

Force powers only, Vitiate takes this. He is a freaking god in the force and his only weakness is shown to be lightsaber combats so without sabers, they die.

Yeah except both of these fighters have feats that are just as good if not superior to Vitiate due to not requiring shit tons of prep.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Actually, Carthage has a fair point. If Krayt can get up close with Dark Transfer, it's all over for Vitiate.
Emperor Vitiate achieved corporeal immortality, what makes you think that this power (Dark Transfer) would even work on him?

Originally posted by carthage
Please point me in the direction of a superior speed feat from Revan that beats Krayt's blitzing of 4 knights, keeping up with a younger and fitter Cade Skywalker etc.
The entire duel between Revan and Emperor Vitiate lasted some seconds in duration. Do the math.

Emperor Vitiate have never ended up blitzed in any of his duels and he have fought many throughout his span of existence.

Originally posted by carthage
Yeah except both of these fighters have feats that are just as good if not superior to Vitiate due to not requiring shit tons of prep.
You need to do some homework.

Neither Kun and nor Krayt hold a candle to Emperor Vitiate in demonstrations of power.

Many people seem to forget this, Vitiate nor Revan are getting speedblizted by Kun or Krayt. It's kind of ridiculous to even think such.

"It all happened in the space of only a few seconds."
―Star Wars The Old Republic: Revan

carthage, for other speed feats for Revan, checkout my Respect Thread in my signature.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Actually, Carthage has a fair point. If Krayt can get up close with Dark Transfer, it's all over for Vitiate.

The Hero of Tython had trouble getting up close to a weakened Vitiate. I don't see Krayt powering through Vitiates greatly superior lightning and teleknesis.

Originally posted by carthage
Yeah except both of these fighters have feats that are just as good if not superior to Vitiate due to not requiring shit tons of prep. *sigh*

Vitiate wins this easily. Though I don't know much about Krayt

Originally posted by Nephthys
The Hero of Tython had trouble getting up close to a weakened Vitiate. I don't see Krayt powering through Vitiates greatly superior lightning and teleknesis.

He has Exar Kun for support, though, he could easily be used as a diversion where Krayt could catch him off guard like Meetra did.

Which was what I said earlier. Krayt is faster than Hero and even if they don't go that route. He isn't absorbing Krayt's lightning and Kun's blasts at once. If this is a dark side nexus then that's two power levels very close to his he's fighting at once. He isn't beating them.



And Krayt blitzed and killed four force users simultaneously. Who cares if Vitiate wasn't blitzed before. Krayt without a nexus was able to overwhelm a force users senses, unless Vitiate has a similar feat he's dead.



Vitshit was scared of Naga sadow, and never bothered to **** with Kun's spirit when he invaded the Republic. Not to mention as I stated before both are highly renowned Sith lords, whose feats including destroying and disintegrating force users for Kun and overwhelming and being renowned for a plethora of force abilities which goes for both. Vitiate could barely handle one of them let alone two.

There are many ways the duo can utterly demolish him

Originally posted by carthage
Which was what I said earlier. Krayt is faster than Hero and even if they don't go that route. He isn't absorbing Krayt's lightning and Kun's blasts at once. If this is a dark side nexus then that's two power levels very close to his he's fighting at once. He isn't beating them.



And Krayt blitzed and killed four force users simultaneously. Who cares if Vitiate wasn't blitzed before. Krayt without a nexus was able to overwhelm a force users senses, unless Vitiate has a similar feat he's dead.


Vitshit was scared of Naga sadow, and never bothered to **** with Kun's spirit when he invaded the Republic. Not to mention as I stated before both are highly renowned Sith lords, whose feats including destroying and disintegrating force users for Kun and overwhelming and being renowned for a plethora of force abilities which goes for both. Vitiate could barely handle one of them let alone two.

There are many ways the duo can utterly demolish him


What are you smoking?

Hero also fought a heavily weakened Vitiate.

Vitiate defeated A jedi strike team of the four strongest, easily and he was not on a nexus.

The Sith Emperor has mastered the dark side's power to become the most dominating Force-user the galaxy has ever seen.

From (Star Wars: The Old Republic: Codex Entry titled "The Emperor's Fallen Jedi (Knight)."

The Sith Emperor is the most powerful Force-user who has ever existed. Unless this implacable enemy can be defeated, the Jedi Order is doomed.

From (Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia)

The Sith Emperor, history's most powerful dark side master, performed a ritual of incredible scope to consume the life energy of every being on his homeworld.

From (Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia)

Vitiate is above Kun and all those Sith who came before him, he is also more powerful then any Sith that was around his time of life span.

Only one past Sith can beat Vitiate, his name is Tulak Hord

Four featless masters who don't match the raw force power of either combatants.




Whose feats required tons of prep and he was virtually useless in one on one combat against HoT.

Once again he has nothing showing himself to be more powerful than Kun as most of his higher end feats are on a nexus. Unless Vitshit gets prep he's doomed.

Originally posted by carthage
Four featless masters who don't match the raw force power of either combatants.




Whose feats required tons of prep and he was virtually useless in one on one combat against HoT.

Once again he has nothing showing himself to be more powerful than Kun as most of his higher end feats are on a nexus. Unless Vitshit gets prep he's doomed.



Incorrect, you are not very knowledgeable with Vitiate are you?

His best force feats are on nexuses, he hugged a lightsaber and died, and he wasn't good enough to defeat the republic unlike Palpatine.

You clearly have no knowledge of Vitiate, you also don't realise that Vitiate was horribly weakened during that fight. You also don't realise that he's not dead

I don't care if he's dead or not. He has no feats to suggest he can compete with two force users who are basically superior when it comes to off world nexus feats.

He has shit dueling feats, pitiful showings off nexus, and needs tons of prep to do anything. He dies and the team takes this 10/10.

Incorrect massively, your clearly lowballing, give me a few minutes and I'll try to put down his feats.

all nexus feats, try again

Oops, didn't mean to post it again, just to edit it

Originally posted by carthage
all nexus feats, try again



INCORRECT, Vitiate defeated the Jedi Strike Team when he was NOT ON A NEXUS. Nathema is not a nexus either. Anyway Vitiate is a Dark Side Nexus Himself, so lol

Anyway his feats against the Dark Council was on a Nexus, which means both sides were empowered, but he destroyed them without a ritual and with a single attack

no reply? To scared to admit that your wrong?

I asked for non nexus feats, and his best one is just sending four featless Jedi masters back.

You basically just proved me right. Kun sent a featless Jedi flying too, its essentially Kun's feat just with four more.

Nice try though

......You didn't read the thing did you?

Vitiates feats after Nathema are all basically Nexus feats because HE IS A NEXUS

No reply? Hopefully I stomped it into your thick skull

Vitiate is a overrated bit*ch just like Kadan's mother, especially at her blowjobs, I would think a fat woman would be good at those.

Originally posted by carthage
I asked for non nexus feats, and his best one is just sending four featless Jedi masters back.

You basically just proved me right. Kun sent a featless Jedi flying too, its essentially Kun's feat just with four more.

Nice try though

No just No, those Jedi were the Strongest in the Order.

Even as a mortal, Vitiate was "supremely strong in the dark side" (among the strongest Sith Lords in history). He stomped Sith Lords as a child; even defeated some dark side prodigies (according to Nyriss) before securing his throne on Medriaas. Heck, even Marka Ragnos noted Vitiate as an "incredibly powerful" dark side practitioner and accepted the demands of the latter without conditions.

I see Vitiate in terms of the Force like I see Sidious in lightsabers. Just like I could see Sidious fighting Kun and Krayt in sabers and possibly coming out ahead, I can see Vitiate doing the same with the Force through his unrivaled darkside mastery.

Originally posted by carthage
I asked for non nexus feats, and his best one is just sending four featless Jedi masters back.

You basically just proved me right. Kun sent a featless Jedi flying too, its essentially Kun's feat just with four more.

Nice try though
Are you nuts or something?

The Jedi Strike Team comprised of 4 famous Jedi including Tol Braga and Hero of Tython. These Jedi aren't featless and are among the finest of the Order.

Easily defeating a Strike Team of such high quality is indicative of incredible power, something that is beyond the capability of most Force-users in the mythos.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I see Vitiate in terms of the Force like I see Sidious in lightsabers. Just like I could see Sidious fighting Kun and Krayt in sabers and possibly coming out ahead, I can see Vitiate doing the same with the Force through his unrivaled darkside mastery.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Are you nuts or something?

The Jedi Strike Team comprised of 4 famous Jedi including Tol Braga and Hero of Tython. These Jedi aren't featless and are among the finest of the Order.

Easily defeating a Strike Team of such high quality is indicative of incredible power, something that is beyond the capability of most Force-users in the mythos.






Correct

I don't hold Vitiate to the same godly standard you do...

but I do agree that Carthage's viewpoint that Vitiate sucks is a ****ing retarded notion that can only come from the mind of a complete and utter dumbass.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
I don't hold Vitiate to the same godly standard you do...
Emperor Vitiate have been officially labeled as "almost godlike avatar of the dark side." I portray this character in the same way as he had been promoted at official capacity.

Its not like as if I have sworn an oath to promote Emperor Vitiate in best possible fashion. I prefer accuracy.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
but I do agree that Carthage's viewpoint that Vitiate sucks is a ****ing retarded notion that can only come from the mind of a complete and utter dumbass.
Indeed, I think that he is either massively misinformed or his bias clouds his judgments.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Indeed, I think that he is either massively misinformed or his bias clouds his judgments.
He has a similar viewpoint on Bane, Zannah, and Revan, and his notions about all of them are really ****ing stupid.

Whenever I read posts from him saying things like this, I can feel my brain cells committing suicide one by one.

Debating with Carthage is like arguing with a brick wall or trying to explain politics to a toddler who isn't even potty trained yet.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
He has a similar viewpoint on Bane, Zannah, and Revan, and his notions about all of them are really ****ing stupid.

Whenever I read posts from him saying things like this, I can feel my brain cells committing suicide one by one.

Debating with Carthage is like arguing with a brick wall or trying to explain politics to a toddler who isn't even potty trained yet.
Lol, I hear you.

In-fact, I sympathize with you here. As much as I like to uphold professionalism and civility, some people are just too much to cope with.

On another thread Carthage put Malgus and Krayt around the same level. So shouldn't that mean he knows that Vitiate is the winner here?

Kun's force abilities combined with Krayt's are superior to Vitiate's feats sans prep, so no.

Originally posted by carthage
Kun's force abilities combined with Krayt's are superior to Vitiate's feats sans prep, so no.

No. Vitiate made Revan and Malak his slaves with no trouble at all. I don't think he could do the same to Krayt and Kun but after some force lightning torments, he probably could even turn one against another.

And even with no mind games, he could still dominate them with his force powers. Vitiate could definitely defend against their combined force attacks while he takes out one of them and once he is 1on1 with either of them, he destroys.

Except that Kun's and Krayt's feats are superior to Darth Revan and Malak's

Krayt knows absorption, is faster, and can simply blitz him. Vitiate isn't absorbing Kun's blast and Krayt's lightning, Krayt and Kun can both hit him with illusions. They aren't that far off him in terms of force power, once again he is shit without prep

And thats why I said he can't do the same to them didn't I?

But I won't argue with someone who says Vitiate is shit without prep.

And do you have any feats that suggest he can kill someone/incapacitate someone on Kun's or Krayt's level?

Edit: Random Jedi masters dont have the feats they do.

Nihilus never consumed anyone of their tier but you would agree that he could consume them right?

Darth Kreia: "There are techniques within the force against which there is no defense."

Vitiate's mind control is surely not unstoppable but it is a unique power that requires prior training and experience to be able to survive it. Top tier force users like Luke, Yoda, Sidious.. probably are immune to such mind tricks but nothing suggests that Exar Kun and Krayt could defend against Vitiate's mindraping skills.

Traya has a history of stupid quotes, so I doubt she is to be taken seriously. Off nexus there is no reason to believe Vitiate is capable of it, especially when he's fighting two users with superior feats to him around the board without prep.

Note, he dominated minds on Dromund Kaas, but off nexus all he did was force push four masters lol.

If there is no obvious power discrepancy here or something.

......Vitiate didn't push four masters dude

Originally posted by carthage
Traya has a history of stupid quotes, so I doubt she is to be taken seriously. Off nexus there is no reason to believe Vitiate is capable of it, especially when he's fighting two users with superior feats to him around the board without prep.

Note, he dominated minds on Dromund Kaas, but off nexus all he did was force push four masters lol.

If there is no obvious power discrepancy here or something.
Read this:

The plan to invade the Emperor's fortress succeeds beyond Master Braga's greatest ambitions. However, the Jedi find more than they bargained for when they finally confront the Sith leader in his lair. The Emperor is more than a man - he is the living embodiment of the dark side. Armed with incalculable powers of corruption, the Emperor easily defeats the Knight, Master Braga, and their fellow Jedi, twisting them all to the dark side. (Taken from Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia)

Question should be: Your ignorance have limits? Yes or No.

His fortress was a nexus, lol. Its a nexus feat.

Has Vitshit ever done anything off a nexus like at all?

Originally posted by carthage
His fortress was a nexus, lol. Its a nexus feat.

Has Vitshit ever done anything off a nexus like at all?
That battle took place on a space station.

Seriously, stop making a fool out of yourself. Your ignorance is stupendous.

All he did was force push them that's all. Braga has no feats matching Kun or Krayt in speed, force power, i,e relevant factors to this discussion.

Both have telekinetically hurled individuals before. How does this prove he can dispose of either of them? Especially when he's slower, can't react to Krayt's speed, and will get blown apart by Kun's blasts. Try again or better yet offer up something off a nexus for the guy

*facepalm*

He didnt force push em, bro. He destroyed them with a lightning storm.

So? Lightning can be absorbed by a saber, both fighters know tutamenis as well and are faster than Braga. Once again, he's never provided any relevant speed feat to suggest he wouldn't be blitzed outright

Originally posted by carthage
All he did was force push them that's all. Braga has no feats matching Kun or Krayt in speed, force power, i,e relevant factors to this discussion.

Both have telekinetically hurled individuals before. How does this prove he can dispose of either of them? Especially when he's slower, can't react to Krayt's speed, and will get blown apart by Kun's blasts. Try again or better yet offer up something off a nexus for the guy
Did you pay attention to the information I provided right above?

The battle between a Jedi Strike Team led by Tol Braga and Emperor Vitiate took place on a space station. This is not a nexus setting by any stretch of imagination. Emperor Vitiate easily subdued this Strike Team with his powers, and this development/event refutes your claims about incompetency of Emperor Vitiate in neutral settings.

The reason why some people are getting agitated by your comments is because you do not pay attention to presented information and continue to spam BS.

Again its not really relevant as Braga has no feats that match them either way. He isn't dominating them with lightning, Braga and three random Jedi are hardly synonymous with two Dark lords of the Sith that have feats that rival Vitiate's.

Can you not see a difference between four featless Jedi and the suggestion he can simply shock them? Both fighters have better speed feats and better showings off nexus.

Originally posted by carthage
Again its not really relevant as Braga has no feats that match them either way. He isn't dominating them with lightning, Braga and three random Jedi are hardly synonymous with two Dark lords of the Sith that have feats that rival Vitiate's.

Can you not see a difference between four featless Jedi and the suggestion he can simply shock them? Both fighters have better speed feats and better showings off nexus.
Read this:

With Grand Master Satele Shan's support, Master Braga assembles a strike team of the strongest and most resolute Jedi in the order. Their goal is to pinpoint the Emperor's hidden fortress, capture the Sith leader alive, and turn him to the light side. The Jedi do not realize that they have underestimated the true extent of the Emperor's power. It is an error that will cost them dearly. (Taken from Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia)

Do you think that these Jedi were a joke or something?

You are simply taking advantage of lack of much information about capabilities of these Jedi in the lore (thus far) in contrast to the likes of Kun and Krayt.

Keep in mind that lot of quality Jedi existed during the era of Satele Shan, many have impressive feats under their belt including Satele Shan herself. The Jedi which were sent to capture Emperor Vitiate are among the finest of the Order in its history perhaps and Tol Braga is one of them.

Tol Braga packed strength and endurance of such magnitude that he once fought a powerful Sith Lord for 3 days straight and eventually convinced this Sith Lord to defect Sith Order and join the Jedi. When he confronted HoT, he managed to overwhelm a Jedi of such strength with his powers for a while; keep in mind that HoT is often compared to the likes of Yoda and Luke. Martial abilities wise, Tol Braga could swing his lightsaber in blur motion and such and was possibly an expert swordsman.

The Strike Team in question comprised of HoT as well who couldn't do much against Emperor Vitiate either. I really doubt that Kun and Krayt are better then HoT. Keep in mind that Emperor Vitiate easily defeated 4 of the Jedi finest simultaneously with his powers on a neutral setting. You are not realizing the magnitude of this achievement.

And as I recall Braga as a sith lord has an amp from Vitiate

Originally posted by carthage
So? Lightning can be absorbed by a saber, both fighters know tutamenis as well and are faster than Braga. Once again, he's never provided any relevant speed feat to suggest he wouldn't be blitzed outright

Speed is irrelevant in a force fight. Neither can blitz him.

Nah. I would rather compare Tython to the "Prodigal" Jedi of other eras, like Anakin, Jacen, or Revan, rather then the literal "avatars of the light."

The HoT is comparable to Yoda and Luke. Even if she's inferior, she'd still be the 3rd greatest Jedi of all time.

Luke>Caedus.
Caedus>Tython.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Speed is irrelevant in a force fight. Neither can blitz him.

There is nothing to suggest Krayt can't. His speed feats are superior to Revan's and Hot's. Lol @ it not being irrelevant, a force fight doesn't magically not include force enhanced reflexes to perform force attacks.

His speed feats are not necessarily any greater then Tython speed-blitzing two Sith in like a second. And the fact that Revan would have to be around Tython speed to compete with Vitate is a testament to all their powers.

Call me when Braga can disintegrate Massassi, destroy a temple, one shot a Jedi master on a lightside nexus, paralyze an entire senate, and kill a blademaster in one shot.

Or blitz four knights, destroy pillars with lightning, punch holes through Abeloth, and notify the entire galaxy of becoming the incumbent Sith lord. That's right Braga is nothing compared to either fighter, and either one would wtfpwn him.

The rest of your post is as usual irrelevant nonsense.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Luke>Caedus.
Caedus>Tython.

Yes.
Nope.

Originally posted by carthage
Call me when Braga can disintegrate Massassi, destroy a temple, one shot a Jedi master on a lightside nexus, paralyze an entire senate, and kill a blademaster in one shot.

Or blitz four knights, destroy pillars with lightning, punch holes through Abeloth, and notify the entire galaxy of becoming the incumbent Sith lord. That's right Braga is nothing compared to either fighter, and either one would wtfpwn him.
Jedi are not destructive in their actions by nature.

Also;

1. Have Kun or Krayt ever managed to overwhelm a Jedi of lets say Yoda caliber with their powers?
2. Do Kun or Krayt pack sufficient endurance to combat opponents for many hours straight?

Originally posted by carthage
The rest of your post is as usual irrelevant nonsense.


I now have doubts about your intellectual capacities.

wait wait wait....

Sajar=Yoda?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Also, have Kun or Krayt ever managed to overwhelm a Jedi of lets say Yoda caliber with their powers or combat opponents for days?


Wait, what?

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
wait wait wait....

Sajar=Yoda?

Originally posted by Nephthys
Wait, what?

I am obviously referring to HoT. He was on the receiving end during the initial phase of his confrontation with Braga, he eventually the turned the tide though.

I have yet to see an individual sending HoT packing with a Force push or almost crush him beneath heavy objects.

EDIT: I am not sure where Sajjar stands in strength factor but he demonstrated incredible level of endurance by lasting 3 days in a battle.

Yep. Vitiate-amped Tol Braga is pretty beast.

It wasn't stated that Vitiate amped Tol Braga like he did Warren.

HoT mind****ing Braga: "You will use the Emperor's power to hunt down the sith. You will become my assassin."

It stand to reason if he amped one, he'd amp the rest. And I meant it to be complementary, not derogatory.

Originally posted by carthage
His fortress was a nexus, lol. Its a nexus feat.

Has Vitshit ever done anything off a nexus like at all?

Dude seriously you're assumptions on Vitiate being dependent on nexus' and preps are clouding your judgement.

Do you really believe Vitiate was only able to dominate thousands of sith for hundreds of years just because he boosted himself? That he was just a bit above average darth and any other darth using same nexus' would be able to top that sith hierarchy the way he did it?

The likes of Darth Jadus, Malgus and Dread Masters obeyed him along thousands of other sith lords with so many great dark councils without questioning his will even for a second. Those incredibly powerful sith councils who were foolish enough to oppose him were crushed like they were nothing at all. Even after he stopped contacting them, they remained loyal to the Emperor as he had such high impact on them. Exar Kun and Darth Krayt would probably be council members had they lived during TOR era and you know what happens to council members when they fight the Emperor right?

Exar Kun and Darth Krayt would probably be Dark Councillors, yeah. The most powerful in history though

I like how none of what you posted was related to combat feats. Lol.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Exar Kun and Darth Krayt would probably be Dark Councillors, yeah. The most powerful in history though

Why? We only know the SWTOR council members which occurs in a very short time and even in such short period of time, there are many great council members like Malgus, Jadus, Nox, Marr...

During his 1300 years of reign, I'm sure there had been some council members that where on Krayt's or Kun's level if not superior to them.

Malgus isn't a dark councillor.

Jadus....ehh, im unsure about him. He has an immense force feat, yet he can be beaten by Cipher 9.

Nox is an anomaly that's juiced up on 6 sith lords. And even then I somewhat doubt her superiority over Kun and Krayt.

Marr: Yeah, and he's the de facto leader of the dark council, having been on it for forty years.

Basically yeah, there are some very good dark council members, but the likes of Nox and Marr are top dogs on it. And even then they dont match Kun and Krayt tbh. Meanwhile for every powerful dark councillor like Baras and Thanaton, there's people like Xedrix and Vowrawn.

Now that you reminded me, I realized my mistake. Its weird that he isn't. So maybe I can say even the likes of Malgus cannot be a council member which shows how powerful they are?

These are just the ones that lived in a very short period of time. You're just assuming that Nox and Marr are the top dogs. What makes you think they were anything exceptional compared to the council members during 4500 BBY for example?

No it doesn't considering none of them ever bothered to actually man up and fight him they had to send lackeys to do it. Malgus outshines every dark council member in feats, and could likely kick Vitiate's ass of a nexus as well.

Malgus wasn't a Counciller because of POLITICS and also he pretty much hated everyone and wanted nothing to do with it.

Originally posted by carthage
No it doesn't considering none of them ever bothered to actually man up and fight him they had to send lackeys to do it. Malgus outshines every dark council member in feats, and could likely kick Vitiate's ass of a nexus as well.

lol

Why don't you just say Jar Jar Binks can take Vitiate too?

Because Jar Jar is stronger than Malgus.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Malgus wasn't a Counciller because of POLITICS and also he pretty much hated everyone and wanted nothing to do with it.

Yeah I mean its weird to think that a great Sith like Malgus wasn't in the council no matter what the reason is.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Malgus wasn't a Counciller because of POLITICS and also he pretty much hated everyone and wanted nothing to do with it.

He did end up on the Dark Council for like a split second. Darth Arho was his primary rival, he presumably seized control of that pyramid when he declared himself being and Emperor.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Malgus isn't a dark councillor.
Nonetheless, one of the most powerful Sith Lords in history. And yet a servant of Emperor Vitiate.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Jadus....ehh, im unsure about him. He has an immense force feat, yet he can be beaten by Cipher 9.
My understanding is that Jadus didn't want Cipher 9 dead.

It have been pointed out in Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia that Cipher 9 didn't stood a chance against a Sith Lord of such power during combat.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Nox is an anomaly that's juiced up on 6 sith lords. And even then I somewhat doubt her superiority over Kun and Krayt.
Nox easily defeated a "supremely strong" Sith Lord with such power. This is too much to expect from likes of Kun and/or Krayt. Its not like as if Sith of Thanaton's caliber emerge frequently, he is already among the Sith finest.

Nox is possibly the strongest Sith in the galaxy after Emperor Vitiate. Issue is that people find it hard to digest that Nox could pack even greater punch then lets say Plagueis or even (ROTS) Sidious, the word anomaly makes sense for him. Combined might of like 7 Force-users is something that few can boast to match in the entirety of galactic history.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Marr: Yeah, and he's the de facto leader of the dark council, having been on it for forty years.

Basically yeah, there are some very good dark council members, but the likes of Nox and Marr are top dogs on it. And even then they dont match Kun and Krayt tbh. Meanwhile for every powerful dark councillor like Baras and Thanaton, there's people like Xedrix and Vowrawn.
Marr is known to have routed/defeated whole Republic armies by himself. Only the mightiest of the Force-users can perform this well during combat situations.

It is possible that Nox and Marr are stronger then Kun and Krayt on individual basis.

---

Even if we assume that Kun and Krayt are equal to 2 (typical) Dark Council members each, we get strength of 4.

And Emperor Vitiate is so powerful and dangerous that he once defeated a Strike Team of 12 Dark Council members with a single blast of power (whole Dark Council to be precise). Revan thought that it would be impossible to defeat an entire Dark Council in combat situation without use of an army or bigger force. Do the math.

Originally posted by Sinious
Now that you reminded me, I realized my mistake. Its weird that he isn't. So maybe I can say even the likes of Malgus cannot be a council member which shows how powerful they are?

These are just the ones that lived in a very short period of time. You're just assuming that Nox and Marr are the top dogs. What makes you think they were anything exceptional compared to the council members during 4500 BBY for example?

1. Malgus is definitely more powerful than any of the Dark Councillors in the TOR era. Is there any reason to believe otherwise? You think Vowrawn was more worthy of the Council than Malgus?

2. I was saying they were the top dogs of the TOR era. And it's generally a flimsy argument to begin with to say, "Oh yeah maybe there were more powerful dark councillors in a different era," as they are generally unknowns and lack any real substance. Especially considering you bring up that I'm making assumptions, while right after you make an even less viable one.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
1. Malgus is definitely more powerful than any of the Dark Councillors in the TOR era. Is there any reason to believe otherwise? You think Vowrawn was more worthy of the Council than Malgus?

2. I was saying they were the top dogs of the TOR era. And it's generally a flimsy argument to begin with to say, "Oh yeah maybe there were more powerful dark councillors in a different era," as they are generally unknowns and lack any real substance. Especially considering you bring up that I'm making assumptions, while right after you make an even less viable one.

I'm just saying that there is nothing that hints that the council we have in SWTOR is the golden age of the 1300 years old Dark Council.

http://geek-news.mtv.com//wp-content/uploads/geek/2012/11/picard-facepalm2.jpg

Neither of them have feats that even put them even remotely close to Kun or Krayt..at all.. or even remotely. Being a dark councilor means nothing. Both of them were the strongest of their era, and on their own would prove difficult for Vitshit to defeat. Combine them and they could easily destroy nearly all of the members. There isn't that big of a power difference between them to assume otherwise

I would put Nox on Kun, Krayt, or Revan's level tbh. He got some badass feats.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Nonetheless, one of the most powerful Sith Lords in history. And yet a servant of Emperor Vitiate.

Yep. I completely agree.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
My understanding is that Jadus didn't want Cipher 9 dead.

It have been pointed out in Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia that Cipher 9 didn't stood a chance against a Sith Lord of such power during combat.

Really? Thanks, that clears some things up.


Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Nox easily defeated a "supremely strong" Sith Lord with such power. This is too much to expect from likes of Kun and/or Krayt. Its not like as if Sith of Thanaton's caliber emerge frequently, he is already among the Sith finest.

Nox is possibly the strongest Sith in the galaxy after Emperor Vitiate. Issue is that people find it hard to digest that Nox could pack even greater punch then lets say Plagueis or even (ROTS) Sidious, the word anomaly makes sense for him. Combined might of like 7 Force-users is something that few can boast to match in the entirety of galactic history.

I wouldn't say it's necessarily out of their range. However I have no plans on turning this point into a protracted and drawn-out argument.


Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Marr is known to have routed/defeated whole Republic armies by himself. Only the mightiest of the Force-users can perform this well during combat situations.

It is possible that Nox and Marr are stronger then Kun and Krayt on individual basis.

---

Even if we assume that Kun and Krayt are equal to 2 (typical) Dark Council members each, we get strength of 4.

And Emperor Vitiate is so powerful and dangerous that he once defeated a Strike Team of 12 Dark Council members with a single blast of power (whole Dark Council to be precise). Revan thought that it would be impossible to defeat an entire Dark Council in combat situation without use of an army or bigger force. Do the math.

While destroying an army is a very good feat, it took the collective efforts of thousands of jedi to effectively imprison Kun, and Krayt is vastly superior to jedi of his era who've taken out hordes of sith by themselves. Again, not trying to lowball it, just saying that it isn't unprecedented.

...Except we don't know the direct circumstances of the confrontation. Did he use a ritual? Because on-screen he really hasn't ever displayed such power. Take Revan, for example. If the Emperor was capable of annihilating a dark council on the fly, Revan wouldn't have lasted 5 seconds against Vitiate.

Originally posted by carthage
http://geek-news.mtv.com//wp-content/uploads/geek/2012/11/picard-facepalm2.jpg

Neither of them have feats that even put them even remotely close to Kun or Krayt..at all.. or even remotely. Being a dark councilor means nothing. Both of them were the strongest of their era, and on their own would prove difficult for Vitshit to defeat. Combine them and they could easily destroy nearly all of the members. There isn't that big of a power difference between them to assume otherwise
You insult these images by using them.

I understand the importance of feats to determine the capabilities of a character but this isn't the only way to determine the prowess of a character.

Becoming a member of the Dark Council is not a matter of joke, it isn't 'nothing' as you put:

To serve on the Dark Council is to achieve the greatest position of honor, power, and influence in the Empire. Many Sith spend their lives plotting their ascension to the council, but with millions vying for only 12 seats, the competition is cutthroat. The powerful few who join the council often serve for only a few months, their lives cut short by internal power struggles or external enemies who target them for assassination. (Taken from Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia)

Also, members of the Dark Council were typically among the strongest Sith in the galaxy in any era they have existed.

The argument that Kun and Krayt were strongest in their eras is flawed;

1. Kun could not be strongest in his era since he co-existed with thousands of other Sith Lords including Emperor Vitiate, Dread Masters and Dark Council members.

2. As far as Krayt is concerned, he eventually became the strongest Sith in an era but he didn't co-exist with some of the greatest of Sith/practitioners of the dark side in history at this point. His ranking is irrelevant.

And don't make unfounded/absurd assumptions that Kun and Krayt would be able to eliminate entire Dark Council in combat situation.

Kun's unamped feats off a nexus are superior to Vitiate's, sorry but there is no two ways about it. Vitiate has no showings that beat one shotting Odan Urr, paralyzing tens of thousands of senators, destroying Freedon Nadd (as a padwan), stalemating the greatest Jedi of his time, and destroying the premier lightsaber instructor his era, as well as tanking multiple blasts that turn people into charred skeletons. With prep he was still able to drain thousands of Massassi, and easily channel Sith spirits with a similar command to Nox. Kun's combat feats are also more numerous and better than Vitiate's



He was the strongest of his era as well, and succeeded where Vitshit failed and that was taking over the galaxy.



But you can make assumptions that they can defeat Kun or Krayt when most of them lack even basic combat showings? Lol

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
I would put Nox on Kun, Krayt, or Revan's level tbh. He got some badass feats.

Ehh not quite, Nox has some great force power but nothing to suggest she is as powerful as Kun or Krayt in the way of feats. Is she stronger than Ulic, Wyyrlok, and or One sith I think so.

In the way of feats, Nox has utterly annihilated someone of Darth Thanaton's caliber

and yeah, she's probably stronger than Wyyrlok/Ulic.

Not knocking Thanathon but again as strong as he is, he's never done anything really up their like Wyylok or Ulic either. Come to think of it Thanathon vs. Wyyrlok should be a thread.

Even assuming Ulic and Wyyrlok are more powerful than Thanaton, it isn't to the point where they'd annihilate him. Which Nox did.

Nox is boss, yeah. Raw power out the ears, skilled enough to slap aside force lightning and just as skilled in lightsaber combat.

Demolishing a Sith as powerful as Thanaton is a incredible feat. And Nox has some great feats even while an acolyte.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Really? Thanks, that clears some things up.
You're welcome.

Literature always helps in matters that may not be properly evaluated or understood through gameplay scenarios.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
I wouldn't say it's necessarily out of their range. However I have no plans on turning this point into a protracted and drawn-out argument.
Ok

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
While destroying an army is a very good feat, it took the collective efforts of thousands of jedi to effectively imprison Kun,
I believe that Jedi went overboard in their attempts to contain the threat of Kun. An entire Republic force arrived to bomb the shit out of Yavin IV.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
and Krayt is vastly superior to jedi of his era who've taken out hordes of sith by themselves. Again, not trying to lowball it, just saying that it isn't unprecedented.
I fully understand that Krayt is very good. It is the underestimation of elites of the reconstituted ancient Sith Empire that I have an issue with, this Empire have produced some of the greatest Sith in galactic history. If you ever have a chance to read Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia, you will understand my position in this matter. Reconstituted ancient Sith Empire arguably represents the pinnacle of Sith progress in the entire mythos.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
...Except we don't know the direct circumstances of the confrontation. Did he use a ritual? Because on-screen he really hasn't ever displayed such power. Take Revan, for example. If the Emperor was capable of annihilating a dark council on the fly, Revan wouldn't have lasted 5 seconds against Vitiate.
This confrontation have been described only in Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia. The sourcebook reveals that Emperor Vitiate somehow became aware of this assassination attempt on him but when the Strike Team approached his position, he knocked down the entire Strike Team; 11 members perished instantly while 1 survived but in unconscious condition. What became of the unconscious member is unknown to other individuals within the Empire but presumed to be dead. It is also pointed out in the same sourcebook that Emperor Vitiate explored the most sinister and uncharted depths of the dark side; this suggests that he had command of lot of applications of dark side.

Their are some applications that can be used to quickly destroy living beings and it is a realistic possibility that Emperor Vitiate had command of such applications.

Now, as much authors may wank Emperor Vitiate, they also need to tell a story. If Emperor Vitiate is depicted as doing his best in every scenario, their wouldn't much story to tell, right?

Revan's performance against Emperor Vitiate may seem impressive but holistically he never stood a chance against such a powerful Force-user. In-fact, Emperor Vitiate would have reduced Revan to ash if he wanted to but changed his mind during combat process, T3-M4 became the casualty in Revan's place instead.

If Emperor Vitiate really wanted to kill Revan, the latter surely wouldn't have lasted even 5 seconds as you put. Heck, it is explicitly pointed out in the novel that even the Strike Team of Revan, Scourge and Meetra would have lost to Emperor Vitiate.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Seriously, stop making a fool out of yourself. Your ignorance is stupendous.
That is unavoidable whenever he's debating anything with Vitiate, Bane, Revan, or Zannah... complete foolishness, ignorance, and retardation across the board.

Wow it seems I missed a bit of this debate.

Btw, you know how I often talk about the effectiveness of numbers?

That applies more to sabers than to force. It's not *as* hard to target two people in the force as it is to fight two people physically, or fight one physically while dealing with another in the force. If things cannot close to physical, then while some splitting of attention is required, it's not too hard to track two foes at once.

So it's mostly additive.

When Vitiate obliterated the strike team of Braga and co., was any of the following involved:

a) preparation
b) ritual
c) charging up power/lightning
d) location strong with the dark side

Originally posted by Q99
Btw, you know how I often talk about the effectiveness of numbers?

That applies more to sabers than to force. It's not *as* hard to target two people in the force as it is to fight two people physically, or fight one physically while dealing with another in the force. If things cannot close to physical, then while some splitting of attention is required, it's not too hard to track two foes at once.

So it's mostly additive.

Couldn't agree more. While Vitiate can defend against their combined attacks, all he has to do is take down one of them. After that, its a slaugther.

On the flip side, I'd also say it's easier to pool force defense than it is to do so with sabers. If two people stand near each other, they can force-block the same attacks together, combine powers for a barrier, etc..

Of course. Yet Vitiate would cause a lot of trouble with his mind tricks. It would be harder for them to defend against his force attacks while they're also trying to defend against his mind controling tricks which would give him an edge. He would ultimately crush one of them before they crush him.

Originally posted by Texas Hold Em
When Vitiate obliterated the strike team of Braga and co., was any of the following involved:

a) preparation
b) ritual
c) charging up power/lightning
d) location strong with the dark side

A) No
B) No, he doesn't always need to do rituals, unlike what so many say.
C) No. What the ****s wrong with charging lighting though?
D) NO. Its been explained so many ****ing times already! It was in a NON NEXUS, in fact as I've already said, Vitiate himself is a Nexus, so all his feats are Nexus one's if you want to be technical.