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Who takes this?

Scourge, Satele, and Bastila get mind****ed, as per Scourge's own admission (and that was with weakened Vitiate.) Vitiate wins.

Revan did well enough on his own, with this much backup Vitiate is dead.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Revan did well enough on his own, with this much backup Vitiate is dead.
Not necessarily, Emperor Vitiate have a good chance.

Emperor Vitiate had a good chance against the trio of Revan, Meetra and Scourge; he easily defeated a Strike Team of some of the Jedi finest; he also destroyed an entire Dark Council once. He is stupendously powerful.

Bastila will be Battle Meditating everyone (which boosts resistance to mental attacks), and Satele's very powerful. Larger team + BM makes the difference.

Honestly, I could see Vitiate winning this one.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Scourge, Satele, and Bastila get mind****ed, as per Scourge's own admission (and that was with weakened Vitiate.) Vitiate wins. No Satele has great telepathic feats

She'd still get mind****ed.

If this is Revan from the TOR game then he loses soundly. Revan Reborn is stronger then TOR game Revan

Originally posted by Nephthys
She'd still get mind****ed. doubt it

Originally posted by Nephthys
She'd still get mind****ed.


Unlikely considering Revan knows how to counter it. The team takes this.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Unlikely considering Revan knows how to counter it. The team takes this.
Revan's defensive capabilities are not valid for other individuals here. It is a strong possibility that all others barring Revan may succumb utterly to telepathic influence of Emperor Vitiate.

Even Revan himself is not immune to telepathic influence of Emperor Vitiate, he was simply better prepared to handle this kind of threat during the second encounter between him and the Emperor.

The Sith Emperor has mastered the dark side's power to become the most dominating Force-user the galaxy has ever seen. His corrupting influence is so complete that none can stand in his presence without succumbing to fear, anger and hatred. The Emperor can wither and ruin even the strongest Jedi's connection to the light side. Jedi Master Tol Braga's strike team was not the first group to succumb to the Sith leader's oppressive influence. Hundreds of years ago, the Jedi Revan and Malak discovered Dromund Kaas and confronted the Emperor. They fell to the dark side and returned to Republic space as Sith Lords. Since then, dozens more Jedi have followed the same path into evil. (SWTOR)

does Vitiate need prep before using telepathy in that magnigtude?

Originally posted by WildBantha88
does Vitiate need prep before using telepathy in that magnigtude?
No, he doesn't needs to prepare himself for anything unless he is planning to destroy a planet or something.

According to the author of Revan, yes.

Originally posted by Texas Hold Em
According to the author of Revan, yes.
Official revelations overruled his declaration. It is not even clear 'when' the author of Revan made that statement since he mentioned that he wasn't aware of official capabilities of Emperor Vitiate in the matters of telepathy at that time. Also, Emperor Vitiate have been defined by several authors, not just one.

im pretty sure he does

Originally posted by WildBantha88
im pretty sure he does
Care to elaborate? What kind of preparation?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Official revelations overruled his declaration.
Such as?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
It is not even clear when the author made that statement
In the middle or late 2013.

Yeno gather your energies, like most force wielders have to do before unleashing powers on that kind of magnitude. Not things that can generally be done with a flick of the finger

Originally posted by Texas Hold Em
Such as?
Example 1:-

By the time Revan and Malak approached the Emperor in his throne room, they were already at the precipice of the dark side. It took only a fraction of the Emperor's loathsome power to complete their fall. The Jedi succumbed utterly to the Sith leader's domination and returned to the Republic to spark a new conflict: the Jedi Civil War.

Example 2 (Related to Example 1):-

The legendary Jedi Revan and Malak confront the Sith Emperor in his throne room on Dromund Kaas. In mere moments, the Jedi lay defeated and consumed by the dark side of the Force.

Example 3:-

"If your information proves false, however," the Emperor added, "you will suffer a fate more terrible than anything you can imagine." As he spoke, the dark circles of his eyes seemed to fill with a swirling red mist, and for a brief instant the Emperor gave Scourge a glimpse of his true self.

Scourge cried out in anguish as the Emperor's mind brushed against his, then he collapsed to the floor, shaking like a child. The touch lasted less than a second, but in that time he witnessed indescribable horrors that dwarfed anything the dark side could conjure even in his worst nightmares. And beneath the formless terrors lurked the unbearable Void, the pure emptiness of total annihilation.

It was over as quickly as it had begun, the awful vision retreating into his subconscious like a repressed memory as Scourge picked himself up off the floor.

---

Now point out to me the so-called preparation aspect of telepathic actions performed in these examples.

Originally posted by Texas Hold Em
In the middle or late 2013.
Prove this.

Originally posted by WildBantha88
Yeno gather your energies, like most force wielders have to do before unleashing powers on that kind of magnitude. Not things that can generally be done with a flick of the finger
See the examples above

Emperor Vitiate does not needs to gather power to telepathically influence his surroundings. He performs this action rather quickly.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Example 1:-

By the time Revan and Malak approached the Emperor in his throne room, they were already at the precipice of the dark side. It took only a fraction of the Emperor's loathsome power to complete their fall. The Jedi succumbed utterly to the Sith leader's domination and returned to the Republic to spark a new conflict: the Jedi Civil War.

Example 2 (Related to Example 1):-

The legendary Jedi Revan and Malak confront the Sith Emperor in his throne room on Dromund Kaas. In mere moments, the Jedi lay defeated and consumed by the dark side of the Force.

Example 3:-

"If your information proves false, however," the Emperor added, "you will suffer a fate more terrible than anything you can imagine." As he spoke, the dark circles of his eyes seemed to fill with a swirling red mist, and for a brief instant the Emperor gave Scourge a glimpse of his true self.

Scourge cried out in anguish as the Emperor's mind brushed against his, then he collapsed to the floor, shaking like a child. The touch lasted less than a second, but in that time he witnessed indescribable horrors that dwarfed anything the dark side could conjure even in his worst nightmares. And beneath the formless terrors lurked the unbearable Void, the pure emptiness of total annihilation.

It was over as quickly as it had begun, the awful vision retreating into his subconscious like a repressed memory as Scourge picked himself up off the floor.

---

Now point out to me the so-called preparation aspect of telepathic actions performed in these examples.


Prove this.
I'm pretty sure that in the first two examples, Vitiate had been waiting for them. As for the last, I'm not sure it qualifies as mind domination.

The evidence for Karpyshyn's claim was posted at around that time.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Revan's defensive capabilities are not valid for other individuals here. It is a strong possibility that all others barring Revan may succumb utterly to telepathic influence of Emperor Vitiate.

Even Revan himself is not immune to telepathic influence of Emperor Vitiate, he was simply better prepared to handle this kind of threat during the second encounter between him and the Emperor.

The Sith Emperor has mastered the dark side's power to become the most dominating Force-user the galaxy has ever seen. His corrupting influence is so complete that none can stand in his presence without succumbing to fear, anger and hatred. The Emperor can wither and ruin even the strongest Jedi's connection to the light side. Jedi Master Tol Braga's strike team was not the first group to succumb to the Sith leader's oppressive influence. Hundreds of years ago, the Jedi Revan and Malak discovered Dromund Kaas and confronted the Emperor. They fell to the dark side and returned to Republic space as Sith Lords. Since then, dozens more Jedi have followed the same path into evil. (SWTOR)

Not at all, all Revan did was TK the Emperor to stop him from doing it. Also he can probably just teach the people a second before. He casually said he'd teach Meetra and Scourge how to do it.

Tol Braga also says that Vitiate dominated him "with a thought", for what its worth Legend.

Meh. Revan resists Vitiate's mind domination for 300 years.

Revan isn't the weak link in that regard. He's already shrugged it off. The weak links are Bastila and Satele who have no experience with Vitiate's mind control at all. And Scourge has already stated that his weakness to it.

Lol Vitiate's mind control is the most wanked ability since giga drain. He's not using it on Bastilla and Satele without Revan putting Vitiate on his ass.

Revan may have resisted, but only because of the exile. And afterwards, he came out broken and mostly insane, and much weaker then he was before.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Not at all, all Revan did was TK the Emperor to stop him from doing it. Also he can probably just teach the people a second before. He casually said he'd teach Meetra and Scourge how to do it.


Incorrect, it was NOT TK, he had learnt to shield his mind, My God, how many times does this have to be explained?

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Revan isn't the weak link in that regard. He's already shrugged it off. The weak links are Bastila and Satele who have no experience with Vitiate's mind control at all. And Scourge has already stated that his weakness to it.

Revan never shrugged it of, were did you get such an idea from? In fact if this is the Revan from TOR game then he loses soundly, since he is weaker then Revan Reborn

Originally posted by Texas Hold Em
I'm pretty sure that in the first two examples, Vitiate had been waiting for them. As for the last, I'm not sure it qualifies as mind domination.

The evidence for Karpyshyn's claim was posted at around that time.

Oh FOR ****S SAKE! Karpyshyn's statement was unofficial.

Originally posted by Texas Hold Em
I'm pretty sure that in the first two examples, Vitiate had been waiting for them. As for the last, I'm not sure it qualifies as mind domination.
Waiting for someone does not makes difference or implies preparation. Emperor Vitiate is typically well-aware of his surroundings, thanks to his own capabilities and powerbase. No one can visit his throne without alerting him. Point is that Emperor Vitiate broke both Revan and Malak with barely an effort.

Example 3 also confirms that Emperor Vitiate doesn't needs to prepare to telepathically influence someone. Emperor Vitiate did not break Scourge but he gave him a glimpse of his offensive telepathic capabilities in split-second or lesser period.

Originally posted by Texas Hold Em
The evidence for Karpyshyn's claim was posted at around that time.
Made public would be correct term. However, issue is 'exactly when' Mr. Drew made that statement because he seemed to be unaware of official capabilities of Emperor Vitiate in matters of telepathy at that time.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Not at all, all Revan did was TK the Emperor to stop him from doing it. Also he can probably just teach the people a second before. He casually said he'd teach Meetra and Scourge how to do it.
It wasn't easy to pull off and involved swift reaction and major use of strength on Revan's part.

It remains to be seen how effective others would be at countering the telepathic influence of Emperor Vitiate even if Revan teaches them the technique, I am not sure if everybody can perform as well as Revan was able to.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Meh. Revan resists Vitiate's mind domination for 300 years.
He drew strength from Ghost Meetra.

Originally posted by Kadan
Revan never shrugged it of, were did you get such an idea from? In fact if this is the Revan from TOR game then he loses soundly, since he is weaker then Revan Reborn
We're talking about mind domination. Revan in TOR is a result of Vitiate constantly trying to dominate his mind, not Vitiate being in control, which is the case with pre-pre-KotOR Revan and Malak and would be the case if Bastila or Shan were controlled. I'm saying that Revan is no longer under the Emperor direct control. Neither is the HoT, neither is Kira or the other freed Children of the Emperor. And Revan in TOR is still leagues above Bastila, and is at least in league with Satele. The point is, with resistance in mind, Revan isn't the problem so saying he has resisted it for centuries means nothing. Everyone else has to resist it too.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Lol Vitiate's mind control is the most wanked ability since giga drain. He's not using it on Bastilla and Satele without Revan putting Vitiate on his ass.
Does this makes any sense? No

Telepathic powers are not like conventional powers, Emperor Vitiate would telepathically influence everybody near him with just his presence.

His corrupting influence is so complete that none can stand in his presence without succumbing to fear, anger and hatred.

However, some may not end up broke outright so Emperor Vitiate may have to exert to break them:

The Emperor can wither and ruin even the strongest Jedi's connection to the light side.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Lol Vitiate's mind control is the most wanked ability since giga drain.

Karpyshyn emphatically confirmed my theory going back since Revan's release. Vitiate can't enthrall any Jedi Master or Sith Lord of note without preparation. He can't do it off the cuff and, to my knowledge, there exists no evidence to the contrary.

Ik, but so? Vitiate was sitting on his ass for dozens of years primarily concentrating on Revan on a Nexus of his Temple, yet he was unable to break him. Revan drew on Meetra's strength for Force reserve and energy, but ultimately it was him who resisted it.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Lol Vitiate's mind control is the most wanked ability since giga drain. He's not using it on Bastilla and Satele without Revan putting Vitiate on his ass.


Originally posted by The_Tempest
Karpyshyn emphatically confirmed my theory going back since Revan's release. Vitiate can't enthrall any Jedi Master or Sith Lord of note without preparation. He can't do it off the cuff and, to my knowledge, there exists no evidence to the contrary.

Don't you guys know Vitiate is the Evil Professor X?

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Karpyshyn emphatically confirmed my theory going back since Revan's release. Vitiate can't enthrall any Jedi Master or Sith Lord of note without preparation. He can't do it off the cuff and, to my knowledge, there exists no evidence to the contrary.

"Emphatically?" Bullshit. Non-officially and with Drew stating he had no idea about the canon facts.

Tol Braga stated that Vitiate dominated his mind with "a thought" and we see Scourge being shat on just by touching his mind, which is supported by Servant 1 going utterly insane just from being exposed to Vitiates will. Swtore and the codex also says that he destroyed the minds of dozens Jedi who "came too close to him" and that "His corrupting influence is so complete that none can stand in his presence without succumbing to fear, anger and hatred."

Theres no evidence at all that he requires prep, and lots suggesting the opposite.

Originally posted by Nephthys
"Emphatically?" Bullshit. Non-officially and with Drew stating he had no idea about the canon facts.

Tol Braga stated that Vitiate dominated his mind with "a thought" and we see Scourge being shat on just by touching his mind, which is supported by Servant 1 going utterly insane just from being exposed to Vitiates will. Swtore and the codex also says that he destroyed the minds of dozens Jedi who "came too close to him" and that "His corrupting influence is so complete that none can stand in his presence without succumbing to fear, anger and hatred."

Theres no evidence at all that he requires prep, and lots suggesting the opposite.

http://lounge.moviecodec.com/images/attachment/goku-vs-yusuke-28732.jpg

Karpyshyn helped create the character, was involved in the design of the game, and literally wrote the book about the guy. I'd say he has a pretty refined grasp of the character's abilities and limitations.

It's been 3 years; your butthurt over the fact that I had a better understanding of the character right out of the gate than you should have dulled by now.

As far as the rest is concerned, how would Tol Braga know it required a thought from Vitiate? Can he read Vitiate's mind? Scourge shat himself when Vitiate knew Scourge was coming in the heart of a dark nexus. And if there were "none" who could stand in Vitiate's presence without succumbing, then the climactic showdown in Revan would have been much shorter, wouldn't you say?

His words are still non-official and completely meaningless. My opinion has as much weight as that email.

Actually if you'd recall I had your back at the beginning. After learning more about him and playing the game I was convinced of the other sides argument.

Um, Tol Braga was kind of there when it happened and obviously their minds were linked at the time. He would know if it only took Vitiate a single flex of his will to dominate him. A nexus would boost Scourge just as it would Vitiate so that's pointless to point out and Vitiate didn't know he was coming until like 10 seconds before he walked in. It's an exaggeration, but it still implies that Vitiate needs no preparation and that corruption is a simply process for him to perform.

Originally posted by Nephthys
His words are still non-official and completely meaningless. My opinion has as much weight as that email.

Cool story. If Karpyshyn's testament alone was in play, you might have a point. But he himself says he bases his commentary on the events of the game and the book. Which makes sense, since I was peddling this theory based on the same shit years before he made his stance known on it.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Actually if you'd recall I had your back at the beginning. After learning more about him and playing the game I was convinced of the other sides argument.

The other side, per Word of God, doesn't really have a credible position. From the looks of it, you jumped ship from my luxury yacht teeming with b1tches and booze onto a sinking dinghy.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Um, Tol Braga was kind of there when it happened and obviously their minds were linked at the time. He would know if it only took Vitiate a single flex of his will to dominate him.

How would he know?

Originally posted by Nephthys
A nexus would boost Scourge just as it would Vitiate so that's pointless to point out and Vitiate didn't know he was coming until like 10 seconds before he walked in.

They also have a multi-page conversation prior to Vitiate's psychic "attack."

Originally posted by Nephthys
It's an exaggeration, but it still implies that Vitiate needs no preparation and that corruption is a simply process for him to perform.

Bingo, the truth at last: you're armed with a handful of hyperbolic implications and speculation. I've got evidence and author's commentary; I hold the winning hand.

I'll throw you a life vest. It's time to take it, bro.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Cool story. If Karpyshyn's testament alone was in play, you might have a point. But he himself says he bases his commentary on the events of the game and the book. Which makes sense, since I was peddling this theory based on the same shit years before he made his stance known on it.

Karpyshan is notably incompetent, since theres nothing in the game or book that indicates he needs preparation to do it.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
The other side, per Word of God, doesn't really have a credible position. From the looks of it, you jumped ship from my luxury yacht teeming with b1tches and booze onto a sinking dinghy.

It is like the Matrix, where your side may seem more appealing than mine but it isn't since it is all a lie and my awful porridge tastes much better since it is the truth.

Go **** off Cipher.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
How would he know?

I think he would know the details of his own mental assault.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
They also have a multi-page conversation prior to Vitiate's psychic "attack."

And theres no indication of Vitiate preparing for anything. It was a mere brush of his mind, which doesn't require prep to perform as per canon.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Bingo, the truth at last: you're armed with a handful of hyperbolic implications and speculation. I've got evidence and author's commentary; I hold the winning hand.

I'll throw you a life vest. It's time to take it, bro.

You have no evidence and a worthless opinion. Thanks but I'll stick to my shitty gruel.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Karpyshan is notably incompetent, since theres nothing in the game or book that indicates he needs preparation to do it.

He's a notably incompetent novelist; there's no sign of early-onset alzheimer's or dementia.

Originally posted by Nephthys
It is like the Matrix, where your side may seem more appealing than mine but it isn't since it is all a lie and my awful porridge tastes much better since it is the truth.

Go **** off Cipher.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-LxThONlUNIQ/UX-bBasqA-I/AAAAAAAALgo/bfS2WG_KN3U/s1600/handle-the-truth.gif

Originally posted by Nephthys
I think he would know the details of his own mental assault.

From the mind of the assailant? Doubt it.

Originally posted by Nephthys
And theres no indication of Vitiate preparing for anything. It was a mere brush of his mind, which doesn't require prep to perform as per canon.

Proof, bro?

Originally posted by Nephthys
You have no evidence and a worthless opinion. Thanks but I'll stick to my shitty gruel.

Actually, it indeed does appear that someone is suffering from early-onset alzheimer's or dementia:



If I didn't have any evidence, you'd have never had my back at the beginning. Which means you, sir, are a liar and a cad.

http://sd.keepcalm-o-matic.co.uk/i/i-win-you-lose-ha-ha-ha-.png

Originally posted by The_Tempest
He's a notably incompetent novelist; there's no sign of early-onset alzheimer's or dementia.

This is the same man who wrote a chapter for Revan that had Carth and other companions in it and forgot to put it in the final draft.

His memory is terrible, if nothing else.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
From the mind of the assailant? Doubt it.

Since he's the guy experiencing Vitiates mental attack, he'd obviously know.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Proof, bro?

Other examples of telepathy don't require any prep-time to perform. Theres tons of times when characters have simply touched anothers mind as Vitiate does in that scene without requiring preparation.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Actually, it indeed does appear that someone is suffering from early-onset alzheimer's or dementia:



If I didn't have any evidence, you'd have never had my back at the beginning. Which means you, sir, are a liar and a cad.

http://sd.keepcalm-o-matic.co.uk/i/i-win-you-lose-ha-ha-ha-.png

You only had an argument when everyone here was ignorant of the facts about Vitiate and before every form of "proof" you tried presenting was obliterated.

Originally posted by Nephthys
This is the same man who wrote a chapter for Revan that had Carth and other companions in it and forgot to put it in the final draft.

His memory is terrible, if nothing else.



Originally posted by Nephthys
Since he's the guy experiencing Vitiates mental attack, he'd obviously know.

He'd "obviously" know intimate details about Vitiate's mindset and mentality? No proof of that, bro.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Other examples of telepathy don't require any prep-time to perform. Theres tons of times when characters have simply touched anothers mind as Vitiate does in that scene without requiring preparation.

So? Those characters usually don't bring Sith Lords to their knees and defy author commentary about their abilities. Clearly your interpretation of a scene in Karpyshyn's book not in line with Karpyshyn's vision of the character, which means Scourge is a particularly weak Sith Lord or there was a measure of preparation involved. excellent

Originally posted by Nephthys
You only had an argument when everyone here was ignorant of the facts about Vitiate and before every form of "proof" you tried presenting was obliterated.

Sounds like Vitiate fanwank to me, bro. You clearly have an unnatural fixation with the character that precludes you from determining such things objectively. Meanwhile, the guy who created the character agrees with me.

http://images.sodahead.com/polls/002690653/4245603595_Charlie_Sheen_Winning_xlarge.jpeg

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Karpyshyn emphatically confirmed my theory going back since Revan's release. Vitiate can't enthrall any Jedi Master or Sith Lord of note without preparation. He can't do it off the cuff and, to my knowledge, there exists no evidence to the contrary.

This makes far more sense. Why would Vitiate waste time blasting people with lightning that they can deflect when he could just go 'You are my slave now'. Neph you do this all the time word of God is superior to your opinion. Karpshyan's opinion is superior to any fan interpretation considering he wrote it

That doesn't make sense, since Vitiate had tons of time to prepare while the Hero fought Scourge and they were fighting through his fortress. So even if he does have to prepare, he had the time to in that situation. He just chose to use lightning because he's a dick.

Originally posted by Nephthys
That doesn't make sense, since Vitiate had tons of time to prepare while the Hero fought Scourge and they were fighting through his fortress. So even if he does have to prepare, he had the time to in that situation. He just chose to use lightning because he's a dick.

You literally have no idea how long it takes him to prepare. Given that 300 years wasn't enough to break Revan, I'd gamble that its not as simple as a few minutes of prep.

That's true, but he managed to prepare (assuming he needs to) in the time it took for Revan to get to his throne room. Which would have taken way less time than the strike team did actually fighting through dozens of sith and heavy defenses and the Hero dueling Scourge.

Originally posted by Nephthys
That's true, but he managed to prepare (assuming he needs to) in the time it took for Revan to get to his throne room. Which would have taken way less time than the strike team did actually fighting through dozens of sith and heavy defenses and the Hero dueling Scourge.

Or perhaps the Emperor underestimated Revan and thought it would be easy to mind**** him like he did last time.

Which would make no difference between the time needed to prepare the technique.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Which would make no difference between the time needed to prepare the technique.

Or he was already prepared considering there was a bloody Civil War happening outside his gates.

You're really grasping at straws now. Vitiate didn't fear any of the peons outside.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Proof, bro?

Look for it yourself.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
He'd "obviously" know intimate details about Vitiate's mindset and mentality? No proof of that, bro.

Mindset and mentality? Well, yes he does actually since he exposits at length about the supreme evil in Vitiates mind and shit. But I was more suggesting that he'd have intimate details of the attack itself. Being connected to Vitiates mind and experiencing the attacks obviously makes him a credible witness. So yeah, it took Vitiate all of a thought to snuff out his will.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
So? Those characters usually don't bring Sith Lords to their knees and defy author commentary about their abilities. Clearly your interpretation of a scene in Karpyshyn's book not in line with Karpyshyn's vision of the character, which means Scourge is a particularly weak Sith Lord or there was a measure of preparation involved. excellent

That Vitiates mind is powerful and debilitating only proves its powerful and debilitating. Not that he'd need to prepare just to touch another's mind. That's retarded.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Sounds like Vitiate fanwank to me, bro. You clearly have an unnatural fixation with the character that precludes you from determining such things objectively. Meanwhile, the guy who created the character agrees with me.

http://images.sodahead.com/polls/002690653/4245603595_Charlie_Sheen_Winning_xlarge.jpeg

Nah. I don't like him that much. I've bashed his character with you freely not long ago. I do respect his power though and see your prep arguments as obvious attempts at lowballing him.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Ik, but so? Vitiate was sitting on his ass for dozens of years primarily concentrating on Revan on a Nexus of his Temple, yet he was unable to break him. Revan drew on Meetra's strength for Force reserve and energy, but ultimately it was him who resisted it.
Strength is a determinant in these matters.

And I am not sure if Emperor Vitiate intended to break Revan after capturing him. Vitiate was only interested in obtaining useful information from Revan about the Republic and not use Revan as his pwn again because he had done this before and the plan didn't work out well. Vitiate did eventually succeed at obtaining the information he needed from Revan after a lengthy contest of wills. However, this entire development seems different to me from Emperor Vitiate's telepathic subjugation feats/actions.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
This makes far more sense. Why would Vitiate waste time blasting people with lightning that they can deflect when he could just go 'You are my slave now'. Neph you do this all the time word of God is superior to your opinion. Karpshyan's opinion is superior to any fan interpretation considering he wrote it
Was it necessary for Emperor Vitiate to only rely upon his telepathic abilities against adversaries to get the job done?

Emperor Vitiate did break lot of individuals including many Jedi in various confrontations. He even destroyed the minds of some of his adversaries with just his telepathic abilities.

Also, skeptics conveniently overlook this part of statement from the author:

This is my non-official answer; I don't know if there's a canon version of the ability where all this has been worked out.

This is why it is important to find out 'exactly when' did the author made this statement. Was this before releasing the novel Revan?

Originally posted by Lord Stark
You literally have no idea how long it takes him to prepare. Given that 300 years wasn't enough to break Revan, I'd gamble that its not as simple as a few minutes of prep.
Emperor Vitiate broke Lord Dramath while fighting him. Does this satisfy your skepticism?

Emperor Vitiate broke both Revan and Malak simultaneously with barely an effort. Now you don't need to prepare for an action which you can perform with barely an effort or do you? Common sense...

No where it have been stated that Emperor Vitiate gathered power to break his opponents or something similar. This whole preparation mantra is misplaced.

Vitiate didn't want to break Revan also because he was using him as a conduit to connect to the lightside.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Vitiate didn't want to break Revan also because he was using him as a conduit to connect to the lightside.
Interesting, thanks for pointing out.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Look for it yourself.

Your concession is graciously accepted.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Mindset and mentality? Well, yes he does actually since he exposits at length about the supreme evil in Vitiates mind and shit. But I was more suggesting that he'd have intimate details of the attack itself. Being connected to Vitiates mind and experiencing the attacks obviously makes him a credible witness. So yeah, it took Vitiate all of a thought to snuff out his will.

Sounds pretty farfetched to me, bro. Especially when Revan's text states directly that Vitiate had to divert much of his strength to even attempt to subjugate someone's mind.

Originally posted by Nephthys
That Vitiates mind is powerful and debilitating only proves its powerful and debilitating. Not that he'd need to prepare just to touch another's mind. That's retarded.

No one said Vitiate's mind isn't powerful and debilitating, bro. Karpyshyn's commentary in no way indicates that Vitiate is weak, only that Vitiate's telepathy isn't as remotely divine as you desperately want it to be.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Nah. I don't like him that much. I've bashed his character with you freely not long ago. I do respect his power though and see your prep arguments as obvious attempts at lowballing him.

Suuuure.

http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130310215302/glee/images/9/98/J_Lawrence_Wink.gif

Originally posted by Nephthys
You're really grasping at straws now. Vitiate didn't fear any of the peons outside.



The presence of Surik, Scourge, and wounded!Revan was enough to make your false god uncertain and visibly hesitant. Sorry, bro, but them are the facts.

^^^

Betraying his allies had not altered the inevitable outcome; the Emperor would have won regardless. At least this way Scourge was still alive to carry on their cause.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Your concession is graciously accepted.

I just don't care enough to find it. He did say it though. A fan expressed disappointment that there was no closure on Carth and he was like 'oh yeah i did a chapter on him but forgot whoops.'

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Sounds pretty farfetched to me, bro. Especially when Revan's text states directly that Vitiate had to divert much of his strength to even attempt to subjugate someone's mind.

Pretty different circumstances bro, since Revan had developed a defense against him. Besides which, he can put most of his power into the attack without having to prep to do so.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
No one said Vitiate's mind isn't powerful and debilitating, bro. Karpyshyn's commentary in no way indicates that Vitiate is weak, only that Vitiate's telepathy isn't as remotely divine as you desperately want it to be.

Suuuure, but that still doesn't mean he needs to prep to use it, or touch someones else's mind.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Suuuure.

http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130310215302/glee/images/9/98/J_Lawrence_Wink.gif

It's also insinuated that Vitiate could have used his telepathy on the HoT, but didn't because he knew they would resist it. But that it was an option suggests he didn't need to prepare to use it.

Originally posted by The_Tempest


The presence of Surik, Scourge, and wounded!Revan was enough to make your false god uncertain and visibly hesitant. Sorry, bro, but them are the facts.

Revan > any of the Sith in the empire at that time. Plus they'd managed to get past all his defenses and Imperial Guards, which would almost never happen.

Originally posted by Nephthys
You're really grasping at straws now. Vitiate didn't fear any of the peons outside.

Why would he when he had already prepared for them. The point is that if it took 300 years to break Revan, he's not casually breaking any of the people here, not without prep.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Why would he when he had already prepared for them. The point is that if it took 300 years to break Revan, he's not casually breaking any of the people here, not without prep.



Face it, Neph. Akin to Bane and Batman, I have broken your Vitiate upon my righteous knee of awesomeness.

It didn't take 300 years to break Revan, Revan resisted that long. He knew Vitiates tricks and was powerful enough to resist his direct influence with the defense he created. Scourge outright admits that he can't resist Vitiate even though Revan taught him the defense and Satele and Bastila are no different. Even Kira couldn't resist his direct influence.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Why would he when he had already prepared for them. The point is that if it took 300 years to break Revan, he's not casually breaking any of the people here, not without prep.
So why Satele refused to accompany HoT? Why Scourge, even at his prime?

Originally posted by Nephthys
It didn't take 300 years to break Revan, Revan resisted that long. He knew Vitiates tricks and was powerful enough to resist his direct influence with the defense he created. Scourge outright admits that he can't resist Vitiate even though Revan taught him the defense and Satele and Bastila are no different. Even Kira couldn't resist his direct influence.

It did take 300 years. He wanted Revan to reveal the location of the Foundry to him, he failed. Then how did Scourge outright betray him? Kira? Are you serious? She's a child of the Emperor imbued with a piece of his consciousness. And considering Syo Bakarn, and her did actually end up overpowering his will yes they can resist.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
It did take 300 years. He wanted Revan to reveal the location of the Foundry to him, he failed. Then how did Scourge outright betray him? Kira? Are you serious? She's a child of the Emperor imbued with a piece of his consciousness. And considering Syo Bakarn, and her did actually end up overpowering his will yes they can resist.



And we continue to puncture Vitiate's mortally injured reputation.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Ply2qVeuQx0/UuPnvVuBNeI/AAAAAAAANBE/xmFinpxE8LA/s1600/palpatine+good.jpg

Originally posted by Lord Stark
It did take 300 years. He wanted Revan to reveal the location of the Foundry to him, he failed. Then how did Scourge outright betray him? Kira? Are you serious? She's a child of the Emperor imbued with a piece of his consciousness. And considering Syo Bakarn, and her did actually end up overpowering his will yes they can resist.

It took 300 years, but not because his technique just takes a long time to use. It took 300 years because Revan was just that ****in' good.

Scourge didn't betray him right in front of him, he quietly freed them and fled. Scourge isn't connected to Vitiates will, because that would negative effect him since Vitiates mind is like turbocancer or something.

No, Kira and maybe Syo resisted his indirect influence. In neither case was Vitiate in the same room as them, he was possessing Kira via proxy (who was incomplete) and Syo resisted the First Son not Vitiate.

Scourge says at the end that neither he nor Kira can resist Vitiate in a direct confrontation, that's why you can only take T7 into the fight. "I will fly us to the temple, but you must face him alone. No one else can resist his direct influence."

Originally posted by Nephthys
It took 300 years, but not because his technique just takes a long time to use. It took 300 years because Revan was just that ****in' good.

I know. But if it takes 300 years for Revan, no way does he just magically mind rape Satele and Bastilla in 2 minutes



Yes but wouldn't he have already been under Vitiate's influence after he got made an immortal.



They resisted the piece of his consciousness imbued with them, that's way more impressive than resisting an outside influence.



Yes because both Kira and Scourge have been bound to him via ritual. What is so hard about this to understand? Of course you don't take two people who've been imbued with Vitiate's power to go fight Vitiate.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
It did take 300 years. He wanted Revan to reveal the location of the Foundry to him, he failed.
Emperor Vitiate actually probed the mind of Revan to get the information he needed. Revan resisted this attempt for as long as possible for him. You are confusing this development with Emperor Vitiate attempting to break Revan. When Emperor Vitiate breaks someone, that someone turns in to a mindless slave/puppet of the Emperor.

Also, how the Empire came to know about the existence of The Foundry?

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Then how did Scourge outright betray him?
Emperor Vitiate had not broken him or reduced him to his puppet at any point in history.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Kira? Are you serious? She's a child of the Emperor imbued with a piece of his consciousness. And considering Syo Bakarn, and her did actually end up overpowering his will yes they can resist.
Kira resisted with aid of HoT.

Barsen'thor (3) healed Syo Bakarn.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
I know. But if it takes 300 years for Revan, no way does he just magically mind rape Satele and Bastilla in 2 minutes

Revan knows how to defend himself, the ladies don't.

Also Bastila? Jesus, she'd get shitstomped by his mind. Satele admits that she can't risk facing the Emperor.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Yes but wouldn't he have already been under Vitiate's influence after he got made an immortal.

Nope. It's specifically said that he wasn't. "Unlike the Hand, the Warth was spared the crippling binding process so that he might wield his full might to crush the enemies of the Empire." - Swtore 163

Originally posted by Lord Stark
They resisted the piece of his consciousness imbued with them, that's way more impressive than resisting an outside influence.

Kira was incomplete, she ran away before they could finish the process, give her her Child personality and whatever else happens.

Syo had help from the Barsen'thor, much like the Hero had help from Orgus Din.

Also no it isn't. Vitiate doesn't have as much influence on them through that way as he does in a direct confrontation.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Yes because both Kira and Scourge have been bound to him via ritual. What is so hard about this to understand? Of course you don't take two people who've been imbued with Vitiate's power to go fight Vitiate.

The Council also doesn't come with the Hero because they'd fall as well. Otherwise obviously Satele and the rest of the Jedi Council would have joined you.

^^^

This

Originally posted by Nephthys
Revan knows how to defend himself, the ladies don't.

Also Bastila? Jesus, she'd get shitstomped by his mind. Satele admits that she can't risk facing the Emperor.

Because they don't know the extent of the Emperor's power. The only one proven to resist him had been the HoT.




The point is that Scourge might have been concerned about what would happen to him if he faced the Emperor.




And Scourge would have Revan's help.



On them? Yes. But I think Vitiate would have more control over someone enthralled to him long distance than some random person close to him.



They couldn't risk that. Even the possibility that Vitiate could mind **** them was enough for them to say 'Nope'. They didn't know the extent of his powers.

^^^

This is funny, no counterargument here.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Because they don't know the extent of the Emperor's power. The only one proven to resist him had been the HoT.

Scourge is right there and he knows plenty about the Emperor's mental ability. Yet he doesn't correct Satele. Instead he says that only the Hero can resist Vitiates direct influence.

It's true, they know nothing on his power. Which is why they can't resist it.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
The point is that Scourge might have been concerned about what would happen to him if he faced the Emperor.

And he was. Because he knew he couldn't resist Vitiate even weakened. Even weakened, even with Scourge knowing Revan's defense, Scourge is sure he can't resist him. He won't do so in this fight where Vitiate is full powered.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
And Scourge would have Revan's help.

Not during a fight when Vitiate is blasting him at the same time.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
On them? Yes. But I think Vitiate would have more control over someone enthralled to him long distance than some random person close to him.

Well I guess he'd have more physical control through possessing someone, but his direct mental influence would be far more dominant. No way can Kira or Syo resist him blasting their minds in person, even without his consciousness inside them.

Regardless, Kira was able to resist because she hadn't been completely bound to him or had a secondary personality installed, plus the Hero had just defeated Vitiate. Syo was able to resist the First Son, not Vitiate, through the Barsen'thor's help.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
They couldn't risk that. Even the possibility that Vitiate could mind **** them was enough for them to say 'Nope'. They didn't know the extent of his powers.

But Scourge does and he's literally 2 feet away at the time, in the conversation with the Hero and Satele. If they could have resisted him, Scourge would have said so. He wouldn't hold back, he's utterly committed to killing the Emperor.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Emperor Vitiate actually probed the mind of Revan to get the information he needed. Revan resisted this attempt for as long as possible for him. You are confusing this development with Emperor Vitiate attempting to break Revan. When Emperor Vitiate breaks someone, that someone turns in to a mindless slave/puppet of the Emperor.

Also, how the Empire came to know about the existence of The Foundry?

Because Vitiate already knew of its existence. He's the one who sent Malak and Revan to find the Star Forge.



Vitiate didn't do anything close to this you are right. In fact Revan used the force to persuade him to sue for peace.




What by him saying 'You can do it Kira'. Hardly compelling proof.



Syo breaks the hold several times during the fight without the Barsen'thor's help

Originally posted by Nephthys
Scourge is right there and he knows plenty about the Emperor's mental ability. Yet he doesn't correct Satele. Instead he says that only the Hero can resist Vitiates direct influence.

Scourge knows the limits of his power? Really? How do you suppose that worked?
"Wrath, you ever wonder how I mind control people."
"Why...yes actually, I won't ever use this to betray you"



No which is why they don't want to risk the whole Jedi Council becoming his thralls.




Again Scourge had a ritual performed on him by Vitiate, is made immortal by Vitiate's power. He has know idea how that would affect him if he's in direct confrontation with him.




Oh really? Then why didn't Vitiate mind control him during their battle? He was clearly scared of the prospect of fighting all three of them, and even resorts to trying to convince Scourge to betray them. If he could just force persuade Scourge into doing his dirty work he would have done it with the same results and zero risks.




I never argued that. I am saying that if Person A and Person B have the same mental resilience. Person A imbued with a ritual from Vitiate will have a far more difficult time resisting him than Person B just encountering him.



No he was resisting far before that. During the battle he heals you for crying out loud. Also Kira is bound to him, she even comments on hearing his voice post mortem.




Why would the Emperor tell Scourge the extent of his mind control powers?

It's because Karpyshyn wrote Vitiate a certain way. Which we now know was as a Sith Lord with prodigious, but hardly unlimited telepathy.

Their concession is imminent. http://i.imgur.com/80U6cQX.png

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Because Vitiate already knew of its existence. He's the one who sent Malak and Revan to find the Star Forge.
My understanding is that Emperor Vitiate learned about the existence of Foundry after probing Revan, no?

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Vitiate didn't do anything close to this you are right. In fact Revan used the force to persuade him to sue for peace.
My point is that Vitiate didn't transform Scourge to his puppet at any point in history. This wouldn't have been productive for Emperor's Wrath role.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
What by him saying 'You can do it Kira'. Hardly compelling proof.
I really doubt that Kira is strong enough to resist Emperor Vitiate by herself. Not even Revan was able to shrug off Emperor's influence on him, he broke free with aid of the Jedi Council that performed mindwipe on him. Heck, HoT couldn't break free from telepathic influence of Emperor Vitiate without aid of Orgus Din.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Syo breaks the hold several times during the fight without the Barsen'thor's help
Barsen'thor's actions were proving to be effective.

Syo couldn't shrug off First Son at any point earlier.

Lawl.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Scourge knows the limits of his power? Really? How do you suppose that worked?
"Wrath, you ever wonder how I mind control people."
"Why...yes actually, I won't ever use this to betray you"

Well Scourge knows the technique to defend against it for one thing. And he touched the Emperor's mind, remember. But most importantly he's been by his side for 300 years, trying to find a way to defeat him. You really think Scourge never attempted to learn more about his greatest weapon? And he's in the perfect position as the Wrath to observe it. Vitiate has broken the minds of dozens of Jedi and turned them to evil. Scourge knows more about Vitiates power than anyone else, he knows that Satele and the Council can't stand against him.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
No which is why they don't want to risk the whole Jedi Council becoming his thralls.

No, they can't resist it because they don't know the defense against it.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Again Scourge had a ritual performed on him by Vitiate, is made immortal by Vitiate's power. He has no idea how that would affect him if he's in direct confrontation with him.

I'm sure he probably does. By that's irrelevant speculation. Scourge states that he can't join the Hero because he can't defend against his direct influence. Nothing more.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Oh really? Then why didn't Vitiate mind control him during their battle? He was clearly scared of the prospect of fighting all three of them, and even resorts to trying to convince Scourge to betray them. If he could just force persuade Scourge into doing his dirty work he would have done it with the same results and zero risks.

There was no battle between Vitiate and Scourge. So we don't know that he couldn't have, do we?

Originally posted by Lord Stark
I never argued that. I am saying that if Person A and Person B have the same mental resilience. Person A imbued with a ritual from Vitiate will have a far more difficult time resisting him than Person B just encountering him.

And I'm disagreeing with you. It's hugely different. Vitiate was just possessing Kira's body, not dominating her will. She was able to fight back against his possession, but she wouldn't be able to do that to his mental assault in person. If she could have she would have fought him with the Hero.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
No he was resisting far before that. During the battle he heals you for crying out loud. Also Kira is bound to him, she even comments on hearing his voice post mortem.

And you don't think that the First Son would have difficulty maintaining his dominance while fighting the Barsen'thor? When he's concentrating on fighting her and using his power in combat, he can't fully focus on subduing Syo's personality.

Kira is connected to him, not bound to his will.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Why would the Emperor tell Scourge the extent of his mind control powers?

I wonder if they did chat. Scourge has to be the closest he has to a friend. Maybe they shot the shit after crushing some Jedi weakling over whiskey and smokes.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
My understanding is that Emperor Vitiate learned about the existence of Foundry after probing Revan, no?

Nah. Considering Vitiate told Revan about the Star Forge and to find it its likely he knew of the Foundry as well.



This is true.



No. Revan and Malak both freed themselves long before.



Point is Syo was able to resist and heal the Barsen'thor at various intervals.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Well Scourge knows the technique to defend against it for one thing. And he touched the Emperor's mind, remember. But most importantly he's been by his side for 300 years, trying to find a way to defeat him. You really think Scourge never attempted to learn more about his greatest weapon? And he's in the perfect position as the Wrath to observe it. Vitiate has broken the minds of dozens of Jedi and turned them to evil. Scourge knows more about Vitiates power than anyone else, he knows that Satele and the Council can't stand against him.

Lol observing him break lesser Jedi doesn't mean he automatically knows the exact mechanics of it. I could observe Darth Nihilus eating doesn't mean I know the exact mechanics nor its limits.




They aren't experts on the technique. They simply can't risk the whole fvcking Council getting compromised.



Because he's connected to Vitiate by this point of course he couldn't resist him. http://i.imgur.com/hbNJ6C0.png






Are you serious? In the Revan novel right Scourge sees visions of the Emperor's defeat Vitiate says something along the lines of 'I thought better of you Lord Scourge.' If he could just casually mind dominate him Scourge wouldn't have seen visions of Revan triumphantly standing over the Emperor's corpse.




Of course she couldn't face Vitiate that's a no brainer. She would have had more trouble resisting him than even




And you don't think Vitiate would have trouble maintaining control over a combatant while fending off Revan and two others? Please.




You're funny. Something tell something tells me Vitiate wasn't the conversational type.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Lol observing him break lesser Jedi doesn't mean he automatically knows the exact mechanics of it. I could observe Darth Nihilus eating doesn't mean I know the exact mechanics nor its limits.

If you had Force Senses I'm certain you'd figure out what he's doing eventually. Scourge had 300 years to prepare for combating Vitiate. He knows more about his power than anyone. If he didn't believe the Council could help, I'm taking his opinion over you saying theres a possibility they could.


Originally posted by Lord Stark
They aren't experts on the technique. They simply can't risk the whole fvcking Council getting compromised.

Right on both counts. Now admit that they'd fall for his mental power and you'd make it a hatrick!

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Because he's connected to Vitiate by this point of course he couldn't resist him. http://i.imgur.com/hbNJ6C0.png

He's not connected to him though. Just because Vitiate amped him doesn't make them connected in any way. Swtore says that Scourge is not bound to Vitiate.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Are you serious? In the Revan novel right Scourge sees visions of the Emperor's defeat Vitiate says something along the lines of 'I thought better of you Lord Scourge.' If he could just casually mind dominate him Scourge wouldn't have seen visions of Revan triumphantly standing over the Emperor's corpse.

So what? Scourge later says that that vision wouldn't have come to pass. It's just a vision, they don't really mean that they're probable to occur. Jacen had a vision of himself killing Luke and we all know how likely that is.


Originally posted by Lord Stark
Of course she couldn't face Vitiate that's a no brainer. She would have had more trouble resisting him than even

As I said, no one but the Hero of Tython and Revan can resist Vitiates direct influence.

Although I'd say the Barsen'thor or Malgus could if taught the defense.


Originally posted by Lord Stark
And you don't think Vitiate would have trouble maintaining control over a combatant while fending off Revan and two others? Please.

Vitiate doesn't need to maintain control. He twists your will and then you serve him without him having to consciously keep dominating you.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Nah. Considering Vitiate told Revan about the Star Forge and to find it its likely he knew of the Foundry as well.
Well, I am not sure about this. Maybe SWTOR offers a clue in this respect.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
No. Revan and Malak both freed themselves long before.
No.

Revan and Malak managed to (partially) reduce telepathic influence of Emperor Vitiate on them. They didn't shrug off Emperor's influence.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Point is Syo was able to resist and heal the Barsen'thor at various intervals.
Well, how Syo pulled this off? Barsen'thor put pressure on First Son and this made the difference.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
And you don't think Vitiate would have trouble maintaining control over a combatant while fending off Revan and two others? Please.
If Emperor Vitiate could easily defeat some of the Jedi finest simultaneously, he wouldn't have trouble fending off others here while dealing with Revan.

It shall be kept in mind that Emperor Vitiate can reduce even Revan to ash with his powers, I am not sure if others will stand much of a chance at surviving either.

If Vitiate knew where the Foundry was, then why was he trying to find its location in Revan's mind? I mean, Vitiate told him about the Star Forge, but he and Malak had to find it themselves through the Star Maps.

Revan survived a full frontal attack from Vitiate's lightning, and even managed to get back up several seconds later through Force Heal.
Even when Vitiate's lighting completely took a injured Revan off-guard, it only made Revan unconscious.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Revan survived a full frontal attack from Vitiate's lightning, and even managed to get back up several seconds later through Force Heal.
Even when Vitiate's lighting completely took a injured Revan off-guard, it only made Revan unconscious.
You forgot about T3-M4. He saved Revan was such a fate.

Revan ended up badly injured or burned from like a second of exposure to that power. If Revan had to endure that power for greater duration, you can do the math.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
You forgot about T3-M4. He saved Revan was such a fate.

Revan ended up badly injured or burned from like a second of exposure to that power. If Revan had to endure that power for greater duration, you can do the math.
Vitiate was pouring lighting into Revan, and Revan managed to still stand.

"What he saw was not good. Revan was being electrocuted, his body spasming uncontrollably as the Emperor blasted him with dark purple lightning."
-and-
"...as the Emperor poured more and more power into him."

Team steamrolls.

Revan shits on Vitiate's body and writes a folk song about it

I agree with what Carthage thinks