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New Earth Superman, not the current. Not a gauntlet, simply two separate fights.

Fight One: Standard slugfest, both standing in front of each other trading punches, no Mjolnir.

Fight Two: Modified slugfest. Thor has Mjolnir, but Superman can use super speed punching, otherwise still standing there trading blows.

http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc462/Diesldude/Mobile%20Uploads/EF99987E-D289-4C12-862B-2A971A9EED65_zps8cfd0xtm.jpg

Oh god. And it begins.

Originally posted by Diesldude
http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc462/Diesldude/Mobile%20Uploads/EF99987E-D289-4C12-862B-2A971A9EED65_zps8cfd0xtm.jpg

hahah Maybe this will remain somewhat civil. And check your PMs for one of the greatest laughs of your life!!

Clark wins the first, Thor the second

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Clark wins the first, Thor the second

One: The topic is HOW MANY Thor can win out of 10. Since you said Superman, clearly you think he gets the majority. But how many do you think Thor would win? 4? 3? 2? 1? None? Second: You think Mjolnir's striking will make-up for Superman's superior speed?

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Clark wins the first, Thor the second
Nope. Superman wins both.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Clark wins the first, Thor the second

Originally posted by abhilegend
Nope. Superman wins both.

Come at me thorbags.

Originally posted by carver9


And I'm avoiding playing against you on Xbox LIVE even though you never sent me an invite to play against you nor until recently did we even have any games we could play against each other on, amirite?

Fight one: Thor wins 2 or 3.
Fight two: Thor wins 3 or 4.

Unfortunately, for Thor Superman's strength and durability advantage are just a bit much in these scenarios. If it's any consolation I like Thor better as a character.

I call it 7-10 Superman in scenario one.
Both characters are mostly equal in strength and against energy attacks, but Superman's been shown to have an edge in strike damage and blunt force trauma. It'll serve him well here.

I call it 8-10 Thor in scenario two.
As shown quite well in JLA/Avengers, where he needed all the help he could get in the final battle, Superman cant strike with the power of Mjolnir, which he'll be facing, and he's not as invulnerable as Captain America's shield, which Thor has dented.
Superman will get more hits in using his speed, but the hits Thor gets in will do greater damage. Two roughly equal opponents, one with a weapon, which the other cant take away and use, is what it breaks down to.

Also, if quoting oneself when no one responds and trolling
Originally posted by abhilegend
Come at me thorbags.
Is going to be the gist of the thread, now that i've made my point, i...am...outta here!

Originally posted by Delta1938
And I'm avoiding playing against you on Xbox LIVE even though you never sent me an invite to play against you nor until recently did we even have any games we could play against each other on, amirite?

Lol...I'm not avoiding you, crazy. I explained to you what I was doing when you sent me a party invite. Tonight I will be on with a buddy of mine. If you want to play COD with us, send me a message and I will send you a party invite. You'll like him because he is a hard core Superman fan. Hard core.

Originally posted by Delta1938
New Earth Superman, not the current. Not a gauntlet, simply two separate fights.

Fight One: Standard slugfest, both standing in front of each other trading punches, no Mjolnir.

Fight Two: Modified slugfest. Thor has Mjolnir, but Superman can use super speed punching, otherwise still standing there trading blows.

Superman wins the first scenario, everytime, but he will be bruised.

What do you mean Superman can use "super speed punching"?

Originally posted by riv6672

I call it 8-10 Thor in scenario two.
As shown quite well in JLA/Avengers, where he needed all the help he could get in the final battle, Superman cant strike with the power of Mjolnir, which he'll be facing, and he's not as invulnerable as Captain America's shield, which Thor has dented.
Superman will get more hits in using his speed, but the hits Thor gets in will do greater damage. Two roughly equal opponents, one with a weapon, which the other cant take away and use, is what it breaks down to.

Technically using JLA/AVENGERS is against the rules, I guess because there'd be too much arguing over whether it counts or not thus derailing threads. srug But if it's just the two of us, I guess we could get away with it. In JLA/AVENGERS, Superman caught a CHARGED Mjolnir strike with his hand. Not sure how much harder Thor would be hitting if Superman can do that.

But, even if we go with Thor will be hitting harder, do you really think it will be hard enough to make-up the speed gap when someone slower and weaker than Superman did this to Thor?

http://s1199.photobucket.com/user/Delta1938/library/Alternates/Miscellaneous/Mongoose/THOR_408

Originally posted by Delta1938
I didn't say you were avoiding me. What I referred to had nothing to do with Sunday. I was talking about the last time we did voice chat and you said I had been avoiding playing against you online, even though you never sent me an invite to play against each other. And we didn't even have any games we could play online. Hell when you asked if I had CALL OF DUTY: GHOSTS, I SPECIFICALLY said for Xbox One, and you said we were going to play(whether you meant against each other or period wasn't clear) that night. Not only did you not send an invite, but.....you only had it for 360 at the time, not X1.

I was trying to party chat with you because it was a very special day and I wanted to tell you something. Happy late Remind Carter Superman Kicks Hulk's Ass day!! hahah Happy late birthday.



He can punch at super speed, like a speed-blitz, but it being a modified slugfest he has to stand there to exchange blows, no moving to avoid attacks or get better angles. But of course he'll be throwing way more.

Lol...you are basically saying that I am avoiding you. Lol again, I would annihilate you in call of duty but I wasn't talking about playing 'against' each other, I was talking about playing the game on teams. Let me know if you want to play tonight.

By the way, Superman needs an upgrade before even thinking about approaching Hulks base level. About to send you a PM.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Nope. Superman wins both.

Originally posted by carter9
Lol...you are basically saying that I am avoiding you. Lol again, I would annihilate you in call of duty but I wasn't talking about playing 'against' each other, I was talking about playing the game on teams. Let me know if you want to play tonight.

By the way, Superman needs an upgrade before even thinking about approaching Hulks base level. About to send you a PM.



That's not what I said at all. I pointed-out how illogical it was for you to previously accuse me of avoiding playing against you when there was no invites and no games we could play. But, we know you're a little.....slow.

And I'm sure Superman needs that in Carter Land. Not so much going by the comics. But again, you're a little.....slow.

Originally posted by Delta1938
That's not what I said at all. I pointed-out how illogical it was for you to previously accuse me of avoiding playing against you when there was no invites and no games we could play. But, we know you're a little.....slow.

And I'm sure Superman needs that in Carter Land. Not so much going by the comics. But again, you're a little.....slow.

Just know I gave you the middle finger. Read your PM.

Originally posted by carter9
Just know I gave you the middle finger. Read your PM.

Sorry to disappoint ya buddy, but I don't swing that way and won't even be the least bit curious. But I'll still be your friend!! And yep, I read it. Replied.

nobody can beat superman in a slug fest unless they have the green K on them.. he punches too fast you wnt be able to punch back

Originally posted by Shabazz916
nobody can beat superman in a slug fest unless they have the green K on them.. he punches too fast you wnt be able to punch back

Originally posted by carter9


Since that guy brought-up speed, you never gave a reason why Thor wins scenario 2. Even if Mjolnir does give him some type of striking advantage, have a reason why that would balance out the speed advantage when someone slower and weaker than Supes did this to Thor?

http://s1199.photobucket.com/user/Delta1938/library/Alternates/Miscellaneous/Mongoose/THOR_408

Originally posted by riv6672
I call it 7-10 Superman in scenario one.
Both characters are mostly equal in strength and against energy attacks, but Superman's been shown to have an edge in strike damage and blunt force trauma. It'll serve him well here.

I call it 8-10 Thor in scenario two.
As shown quite well in JLA/Avengers, where he needed all the help he could get in the final battle, Superman cant strike with the power of Mjolnir, which he'll be facing, and he's not as invulnerable as Captain America's shield, which Thor has dented.
Superman will get more hits in using his speed, but the hits Thor gets in will do greater damage. Two roughly equal opponents, one with a weapon, which the other cant take away and use, is what it breaks down to.

Also, if quoting oneself when no one responds and trolling

Is going to be the gist of the thread, now that i've made my point, i...am...outta here!
Superman is MUCH more stronger than Thor. This isn't ICT where you have a legion of marvel fanboys defending Thor. If you want we can compare how they stack using feats.

Thor wins 5 out of 10 in both.

How is it that people still give a shit about threads like this?

Originally posted by quanchi112
Thor wins 5 out of 10 in both.

Are you kidding? He's no Thanos.

Originally posted by Bentley
Are you kidding? He's no Thanos. You are right. Thanos slaughters him 10/10 whereas Thor only wins 5/10.

Originally posted by Khazra Reborn
How is it that people still give a shit about threads like this?

Then.....you could ignore this thread instead of making a worthless post here.

Originally posted by quanchi112
You are right. Thanos slaughters him 10/10 whereas Thor only wins 5/10.

You might be confusing Thanos with Superboy Prime.

How do you figure a hammerless Thor is as strong and durable as Superman for the first match? My take on their feats don't add to that.

Originally posted by Bentley
You might be confusing Thanos with Superboy Prime.

How do you figure a hammerless Thor is as strong and durable as Superman for the first match? My take on their feats don't add to that. That kid the teen titans put in a coma. Heavens no. I mean Thanos the master of all.

He has more damage soak, has a higher pain tolerance, and has more warrior training.

Thor splits despite not being as strong.

Originally posted by Bentley
You might be confusing Thanos with Superboy Prime.

How do you figure a hammerless Thor is as strong and durable as Superman for the first match? My take on their feats don't add to that.

Considering how much of a Superman hater and detractor he is, him saying Thor only gets an even split is effectively a vote for Superman wins.

Superman wins both scenarios

Second scenario is more interesting as historically Thor has been shown to have SOME problems with speed more often than not, but speed is not an auto win vs Thor of course depending on the writer

Superman is know to have some problem with magic,but unknown to most non-Superman readers magic is not a auto win tool vs Superman of course depending on the writer

Based on this two things, I believe Superman will have the advantage in the second scenario but Thor could have variable ratio from 3 to 5 wins out of 10 on the second scenario.

The first scenario in my opinion Thor has the disadvantage he could probably win 1 out of 10.

Considering he relies on his hammer more often take a 5/10 split however you want.

Originally posted by quanchi112
That kid the teen titans put in a coma. Heavens no. I mean Thanos the master of all.

At least SBP can take anti-matter without being reduced to a skeleton


Originally posted by quanchi112
He has more damage soak, has a higher pain tolerance, and has more warrior training.

Thor splits despite not being as strong.

I'll give you the warrior training. Which damage soak feat strikes you as being above Superman?

Originally posted by Bentley
At least SBP can take anti-matter without being reduced to a skeleton




I'll give you the warrior training. Which damage soak feat strikes you as being above Superman? That was a weakened Thanos. Context, kiddo. Am was also weakened in that scene.

The Teen Titans aren't bludgeoning Thanos like they did to Boy Prime.


Thor being tortured and fighting with serious injuries when he was cursed.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Thor wins 5 out of 10 in both.

jawdrop Quani is giving Superman a 1/2 and 1/2 ratio vs Thor???

That is a surprise development I have never expected

Honestly coming from Quanchi this is a victory for the House of El.

Seriously if Quan thinks this We should just leave it that and thank him for his opinion.


Originally posted by quanchi112


Thor splits despite not being as strong.

Translation Superman is stronger than Thor

This is coming from Quan

jawdropjawdropjawdrop

Originally posted by Bentley
At least SBP can take anti-matter without being reduced to a skeleton




I'll give you the warrior training. Which damage soak feat strikes you as being above Superman?

That just shows either her inability to read, or her desperation on detracting Superman. This is a standard slugfest and a modified slugfest, skill/training is irrelevant.

But, even though expanding on Thor's skill is off-topic, I should point-out Orion beats Thor here on paper and in practice from what I've seen, and it's never been any real advantage against Superman after his DOS era power level.

Superman fought after having his blood turned into kryptonite, impaled by a kryptonite sword through his heart, after getting his heart ripped out etc.

Originally posted by quanchi112
That was a weakened Thanos. Context, kiddo. Am was also weakened in that scene.

Like the often cited night battle you use for Prime. Context goes both ways


Originally posted by quanchi112
Thor being tortured and fighting with serious injuries when he was cursed.

Which arc are you referring to?

Originally posted by Bentley
Like the often cited night battle you use for Prime. Context goes both ways




Which arc are you referring to?
When Thor had brittle bones due to being cursed by Hela.

5/10

Originally posted by abhilegend
Superman fought after having his blood turned into kryptonite, impaled by a kryptonite sword through his heart, after getting his heart ripped out etc.



You forgot in that whole Gog thing when Gog impaled him and injected liquified synthetic Kryptonite into him and Superman still fought despite the Kryptonite and gaping wound, and later when it artificially aged him and he was still fighting Preus despite having a heart attack IIRC.

Clark in one, Thor in second. Percentages don't matter. What matters is who wins the majority. You can argue for days about who has greater damage soak, strength durability but an honest non-biased assessment of the two is simple. Without the hammer Thor has less striking power. With the hammer Thor has more. Speed advantage goes to Clark (although it's outta character for him to blitz) but everything else is a wash. I'd say 60% for both on each respective match if i had to give a number.

Originally posted by Delta1938
You forgot in that whole Gog thing when Gog impaled him and injected liquified synthetic Kryptonite into him and Superman still fought despite the Kryptonite and gaping wound, and later when it artificially aged him and he was still fighting Preus despite having a heart attack IIRC.
Yeah, that's a huge testament to his pain tolerance. And unlike Thor who was running away from Absorbing Man like a coward that he is when his bones were cursed, Superman fought Preus and then 300 Gogs at the same time for an extended time and was able to endure kryptonite for hundreds of years.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Clark in one, Thor in second. Percentages don't matter. What matters is who wins the majority. You can argue for days about who has greater damage soak, strength durability but an honest non-biased assessment of the two is simple. Without the hammer Thor has less striking power. With the hammer Thor has more. Speed advantage goes to Clark (although it's outta character for him to blitz) but everything else is a wash. I'd say 60% for both on each respective match if i had to give a number.
Superman strikes harder than Thor even when he has mjolnir. You will never see Thor doing something like this.

http://s1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Superman/?action=view&current=016-SupermanBatman015Rembrandt-DCP.jpg

I find the logic that Thor somehow hits harder with mjolnir lulzworthy TBH. Like its used to comfort Thor fans, "Look Superman is stronger but Thor is pretty close in strength and hits harder with mjolnir."

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Clark in one, Thor in second. Percentages don't matter. What matters is who wins the majority. You can argue for days about who has greater damage soak, strength durability but an honest non-biased assessment of the two is simple. Without the hammer Thor has less striking power. With the hammer Thor has more. Speed advantage goes to Clark (although it's outta character for him to blitz) but everything else is a wash. I'd say 60% for both on each respective match if i had to give a number.

Majority not mattering could be argued on a typical vs topic, but not so much on a topic that's about how many out of 10.

I'm not entirely convinced Thor has greater striking power without charging Mjolnir. But even if he does, how does he overcome a speed advantage when this happened to him against someone slower and weaker than Superman?

http://s1199.photobucket.com/user/Delta1938/library/Alternates/Miscellaneous/Mongoose/THOR_408

Maybe Thor has better showings against speed-blitzes that's relevant to this(every example I see people bring-up is not relevant). But that and other examples makes me think even if Mjolnir gives him striking power advantage, it won't be enough. Also blitzing being out of character for Superman isn't a factor since the second scenario is about him using his speed.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Yeah, that's a huge testament to his pain tolerance. And unlike Thor who was running away from Absorbing Man like a coward that he is when his bones were cursed, Superman fought Preus and then 300 Gogs at the same time for an extended time and was able to endure kryptonite for hundreds of years.

Kryptonite AND torture, IIRC. Two hundred years of being tortured and still didn't break.

As for running away from Absorbing Man.....

http://persephonemagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/gw-itcrowdmosspopcorn.gif

I'm just gonna watch what that brings.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Superman strikes harder than Thor even when he has mjolnir. You will never see Thor doing something like this.

http://s1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Superman/?action=view&current=016-SupermanBatman015Rembrandt-DCP.jpg

I find the logic that Thor somehow hits harder with mjolnir lulzworthy TBH. Like its used to comfort Thor fans, "Look Superman is stronger but Thor is pretty close in strength and hits harder with mjolnir."

Didn't you just bring up jla/avengers

Originally posted by Delta1938
Majority not mattering could be argued on a typical vs topic, but not so much on a topic that's about how many out of 10.

I'm not entirely convinced Thor has greater striking power without charging Mjolnir. But even if he does, how does he overcome a speed advantage when this happened to him against someone slower and weaker than Superman?

http://s1199.photobucket.com/user/Delta1938/library/Alternates/Miscellaneous/Mongoose/THOR_408

Maybe Thor has better showings against speed-blitzes that's relevant to this(every example I see people bring-up is not relevant). But that and other examples makes me think even if Mjolnir gives him striking power advantage, it won't be enough. Also blitzing being out of character for Superman isn't a factor since the second scenario is about him using his speed.

He has the ability to respond to a blitz

Originally posted by Sin I AM



He has the ability to respond to a blitz

He didn't do particularly well in either example I'm aware of where he fought Mongoose. The only two shots he got on Mongoose in the first were a sucker punch(when Mongoose was about to bite Spider-Man's neck) and spinning around with Mjolnir, both of which don't apply here even if we ignore Superman is stronger, faster and more durable than Mongoose.

http://s1199.photobucket.com/user/Delta1938/library/Alternates/Miscellaneous/Mongoose/Thor_391

I already showed Mongoose beating him down, but I'll show again.

http://s1199.photobucket.com/user/Delta1938/library/Alternates/Miscellaneous/Mongoose/THOR_408

Masterson Thor got embarrassed by this exercise for improving reaction time and whatnot, and Cap said his predecessor also had trouble with it.

http://s1199.photobucket.com/user/Delta1938/library/Alternates/Miscellaneous/Speed/THOR_447

Since Cap said Thor had problems too, makes me think Spider-Man blitzing Masterson Thor is a relevant example. Having to strike the ground to stop Spidey not only enhances the point of problems with speed, but is something that wouldn't really work on Superman even if he was allowed to do that.

http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Alternates/Miscellaneous/Miscellaneous/THOR448-PG04.jpg

When Thor fought an alternate Gladiator in a time dilation that Thor had tech to protect him from, but Gladiator, who was already exhausted beforehand and had to use his speed to compensate for the dilation effect, Thor didn't show any speed advantage. That example of Thor against Quicksilver has Thor being forced to use an area effect attack(striking the ground again) is another example of Thor having problems with speed against someone slower and weaker than Superman, and again a tactic that isn't useable here. Wolverine was also dancing around him, although that's not as strong an argument as the others for this modified slugfest scenario.

Are there any examples I don't know of that would actually support Thor being able to get any hits before being beat down in this scenario?

Thor wins the first 6.5-7/10

wins the second 10/10. Supes ai't taking more than a few hits from Mjolnir, if that.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Didn't you just bring up jla/avengers



He has the ability to respond to a blitz
I didn't.Originally posted by Delta1938
Kryptonite AND torture, IIRC. Two hundred years of being tortured and still didn't break.

As for running away from Absorbing Man.....

http://persephonemagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/gw-itcrowdmosspopcorn.gif

I'm just gonna watch what that brings.
Yeah, Thor is a real pussy.

http://i.imgur.com/vS41fnY.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/v6TeJyr.jpg

haermm

Originally posted by DarkRaiden
Thor wins the first 6.5-7/10

wins the second 10/10. Supes ai't taking more than a few hits from Mjolnir, if that.
Bwahahaha.

Shut up if you're trying to insinuate Thor is stronger than Superman. Take that shit to comicvine.

Originally posted by DarkRaiden
Thor wins the first 6.5-7/10

wins the second 10/10. Supes ai't taking more than a few hits from Mjolnir, if that.


Lol, no

Even Quani accepts Superman is stronger.

Imo you are dead wrong on this one

Well, if anything this thread proves people respect Thor's physical prowess enormously.

Thor wins 3/10 times in 1).

Thor wins 7/10 times in 2).

^ How does he wins 3/10 in the first fight to begin with? I have trouble recalling any Thor level opponent beating Superman in a slugfest in his post-crisis history.

And he isn't beating Superman in second let alone beating 7/10.Originally posted by Bentley
Well, if anything this thread proves people respect Thor's physical prowess enormously.
Overrate it actually.

Originally posted by Delta1938
He didn't do particularly well in either example I'm aware of where he fought Mongoose. The only two shots he got on Mongoose in the first were a sucker punch(when Mongoose was about to bite Spider-Man's neck) and spinning around with Mjolnir, both of which don't apply here even if we ignore Superman is stronger, faster and more durable than Mongoose.

http://s1199.photobucket.com/user/Delta1938/library/Alte rnates/Miscellaneous/Mongoose/Thor_391

I already showed Mongoose beating him down, but I'll show again.

http://s1199.photobucket.com/user/Delta1938/library/Alternates/Miscellaneous/Mongoose/THOR_408

Masterson Thor got embarrassed by this exercise for improving reaction time and whatnot, and Cap said his predecessor also had trouble with it.

http://s1199.photobucket.com/user/Delta1938/library/Alternates/Miscellaneous/Speed/THOR_447

Since Cap said Thor had problems too, makes me think Spider-Man blitzing Masterson Thor is a relevant example. Having to strike the ground to stop Spidey not only enhances the point of problems with speed, but is something that wouldn't really work on Superman even if he was allowed to do that.

http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Alternates/Miscellaneous/Miscellaneous/THOR448-PG04.jpg

When Thor fought an alternate Gladiator in a time dilation that Thor had tech to protect him from, but Gladiator, who was already exhausted beforehand and had to use his speed to compensate for the dilation effect, Thor didn't show any speed advantage. That example of Thor against Quicksilver has Thor being forced to use an area effect attack(striking the ground again) is another example of Thor having problems with speed against someone slower and weaker than Superman, and again a tactic that isn't useable here. Wolverine was also dancing around him, although that's not as strong an argument as the others for this modified slugfest scenario.

Are there any examples I don't know of that would actually support Thor being able to get any hits before being beat down in this scenario?

Don't use masterson as an example of thors abilities. Thor beat qs in that exchange by using his abilities and was on him before he could respond. All other showings u mentioned were low showings

Supes
Thor

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Don't use masterson as an example of thors abilities. Thor beat qs in that exchange by using his abilities and was on him before he could respond. All other showings u mentioned were low showings

I don't mind people thinking Superman is stronger (I do, after all), but to act like Thor isn't even in his weight class, is lowballing, imo.

and anyone acting like Mjolnir isn't a factor... You need help.

Originally posted by abhilegend


Troll harder, your almost at fangirl status. I believe in u

Originally posted by -Pr-
I don't mind people thinking Superman is stronger (I do, after all), but to act like Thor isn't even in his weight class, is lowballing, imo.

and anyone acting like Mjolnir isn't a factor... You need help.

Originally posted by -Pr-
I don't mind people thinking Superman is stronger (I do, after all), but to act like Thor isn't even in his weight class, is lowballing, imo.

and anyone acting like Mjolnir isn't a factor... You need help.

Well, some may act like speed is not a factor, those ones also need help.

It is PROBABLY easier to find evidence of Thor having trouble with speed than not, IMO.

Originally posted by -Pr-
I don't mind people thinking Superman is stronger (I do, after all), but to act like Thor isn't even in his weight class, is lowballing, imo.

and anyone acting like Mjolnir isn't a factor... You need help.

Lol.

Honestly...I think Superman pulls a healthy majority in scenario 1. Scenery 2 is debatable. Superman super speed punches doesn't seem as effective as his non super speed punches. Don't think that matters though. Scenario 2 is debatable both ways...don't see either stomping the other.

is magic weakness a factor?

Originally posted by Rao Kal El
Well, some may act like speed is not a factor, those ones also need help.

It is PROBABLY easier to find evidence of Thor having trouble with speed than not, IMO.

Well, speed matters less than slugfest, doesn't it?

Or is Superman allowed to move at high speeds?

Originally posted by DarkRaiden
Thor wins the first 6.5-7/10

wins the second 10/10. Supes ai't taking more than a few hits from Mjolnir, if that.

I.....I seriously hope you're joking.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Don't use masterson as an example of thors abilities. Thor beat qs in that exchange by using his abilities and was on him before he could respond. All other showings u mentioned were low showings

Captain America compared Masterson Thor to Thor in speed the issue prior to Spidey blitzing him. Seems like it's a valid example, but it's not even imporant.

Thor slammed the ground with Mjolnir knocking Pietro off balance. That tactic wouldn't work against a speed-blitzing Superman even ignoring that this is a slugfest, so Thor can't do that. If Thor couldn't tag Quicksilver, who is slower and can't hurt Thor like Superman can, then how is that fight relevant when Thor can't use the only thing that allowed him to beat Quicksilver if we pretend it would be useful against Superman?

And they're low showings? Prove it. The Quicksilver example is obviously irrelevant for your case considering what actually happens and just supports my point. What is there for you to argue Gladiator or Mongoose being too fast for him(effectively too fast with alt Gladiator's case) to really deal with well? I could maybe buy Wolverine, but that's not even assured.

Originally posted by -Pr-
I don't mind people thinking Superman is stronger (I do, after all), but to act like Thor isn't even in his weight class, is lowballing, imo.

and anyone acting like Mjolnir isn't a factor... You need help.

In regards to conventional striking, it doesn't seem to be a major factor in the Thor/Hercules fights I've seen. Charged strikes? That's a different argument.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Well, speed matters less than slugfest, doesn't it?

Or is Superman allowed to move at high speeds?

Fight one is a standard slugfest, no Mjolnir for Thor. Fight two Thor gets Mjolnir to hit with, but Superman can punch at super speed.

Originally posted by carver9
Honestly...I think Superman pulls a healthy majority in scenario 1. Scenery 2 is debatable. Superman super speed punches doesn't seem as effective as his non super speed punches. Don't think that matters though. Scenario 2 is debatable both ways...don't see either stomping the other.

I agree with Carver here, super speed punches arent an auto win. They also dont seem to be as effective but i digress.

i still say clark for the maj in one and thor for the maj in two

Originally posted by carver9
Honestly...I think Superman pulls a healthy majority in scenario 1. Scenery 2 is debatable. Superman super speed punches doesn't seem as effective as his non super speed punches. Don't think that matters though. Scenario 2 is debatable both ways...don't see either stomping the other.

Speed blitzing has been pretty effective against Equus, Lobo, Cyborg-Superman and others when he uses it. Even if you could argue they're not as powerful, he'll be throwing a whole lot more, producing accumulative damage. See the second Mongoose fight for how that worked against Thor, unless there's a larger number of better examples than I cited.

Originally posted by Warlord
is magic weakness a factor?

Not really, as it rarely if ever is a real factor in regards to hand-to-hand against Wonder Woman, Etrigan, Captain Marvel, Black Adam and others under normal circumstances.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
I agree with Carver here, super speed punches arent an auto win. They also dont seem to be as effective but i digress.

i still say clark for the maj in one and thor for the maj in two

So what examples do you have to argue that the Thor showings against speed are low showings?

Originally posted by Delta1938
Speed blitzing has been pretty effective against Equus, Lobo, Cyborg-Superman and others when he uses it. Even if you could argue they're not as powerful, he'll be throwing a whole lot more, producing accumulative damage. See the second Mongoose fight for how that worked against Thor, unless there's a larger number of better examples than I cited.



Not really, as it rarely if ever is a real factor in regards to hand-to-hand against Wonder Woman, Etrigan, Captain Marvel, Black Adam and others under normal circumstances.



So what examples do you have to argue that the Thor showings against speed are low showings?

Look you created this thread so you tell me. From what you're saying superman takes a healthy majority in both so why create a spite match. I already stated that punch for punch in round one Clark would win because he is stronger and has greater striking power. Similar to a hulk vs Thor h2h match would go. HOWEVER in round two mjolnir tips the scale due to it's greater striking power IMO. I don't know what else to say.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Look you created this thread so you tell me. From what you're saying superman takes a healthy majority in both so why create a spite match. I already stated that punch for punch in round one Clark would win because he is stronger and has greater striking power. Similar to a hulk vs Thor h2h match would go. HOWEVER in round two mjolnir tips the scale due to it's greater striking power IMO. I don't know what else to say.

Spite would mean it's my intention to spite Thor. I thought maybe the Thor fans could provide examples of standard Mjolnir shots being significantly more powerful than punches, and if they could provide any real examples that Thor could handle a Superman speed-blitz. You said he can react, but haven't provided any examples. And when I cited examples for Thor handling speed poorly, you simply said they're low showings. If they are, I'd think you would have equal or greater number of showings for Thor doing much, much better against speed. So, I asked.

Originally posted by Delta1938
Spite would mean it's my intention to spite Thor. I thought maybe the Thor fans could provide examples of standard Mjolnir shots being significantly more powerful than punches, and if they could provide any real examples that Thor could handle a Superman speed-blitz. You said he can react, but haven't provided any examples. And when I cited examples for Thor handling speed poorly, you simply said they're low showings. If they are, I'd think you would have equal or greater number of showings for Thor doing much, much better against speed. So, I asked.

But you created the thread and you are going against everyones post about Thor. So why create a thread if you don't think Thor stands a chance. How many wins would you give Thor in scenario 1? What about 2?

Originally posted by abhilegend
^ How does he wins 3/10 in the first fight to begin with? I have trouble recalling any Thor level opponent beating Superman in a slugfest in his post-crisis history.

And he isn't beating Superman in second let alone beating 7/10.
Overrate it actually.

Personally I wouldn't give Thor 7/10 over Wonderman on a slugfest, let alone New Earth Kal, but people aren't all equally aquainted to the story of these characters.

Originally posted by carver9
But you created the thread and you are going against everyones post about Thor. So why create a thread if you don't think Thor stands a chance. How many wins would you give Thor in scenario 1? What about 2?

Like I told SIA, I was wanting to see evidence. It's not impossible for me to be surprised and they build a case that Thor can keep up enough. But her arguments boil down to arguing the Quicksilver example like it actually matters(Thor using a tactic that is neither effective or allowed in this scenario, against someone slower and can't hit as hard as Superman) and saying the examples of Thor being blitzed I gave are low showings, without giving counter examples or any reason for why she claimed it. Wanting to see if people bring evidence to prove me wrong doesn't mean it's an intended spite thread. Plus, there's also, ya know, the fact that debating is fun.

As for Thor winning percentage, I guess I'd give him 1, maybe 2/10 in fight one. Superman has quite the strength and durability advantage, impressive pain tolerance in his own right even if others can argue Thor's is better, at worst equal willpower to win if not greater, and a decent healing factor. Scenario 2? Maybe 1/10, unless Thor fans can provide sufficient evidence that Thor can decently keep-up. Ya know, part of why I made this. I can see Thor getting lucky and getting a few charged Mjolnir strikes in sometimes.

Supes 5.5/10
Thor 6/10

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Supes 5.5/10
Thor 6/10

Based on?

Originally posted by Delta1938
Like I told SIA, I was wanting to see evidence. It's not impossible for me to be surprised and they build a case that Thor can keep up enough. But her arguments boil down to arguing the Quicksilver example like it actually matters(Thor using a tactic that is neither effective or allowed in this scenario, against someone slower and can't hit as hard as Superman) and saying the examples of Thor being blitzed I gave are low showings, without giving counter examples or any reason for why she claimed it. Wanting to see if people bring evidence to prove me wrong doesn't mean it's an intended spite thread. Plus, there's also, ya know, the fact that debating is fun.

As for Thor winning percentage, I guess I'd give him 1, maybe 2/10 in fight one. Superman has quite the strength and durability advantage, impressive pain tolerance in his own right even if others can argue Thor's is better, at worst equal willpower to win if not greater, and a decent healing factor. Scenario 2? Maybe 1/10, unless Thor fans can provide sufficient evidence that Thor can decently keep-up. Ya know, part of why I made this. I can see Thor getting lucky and getting a few charged Mjolnir strikes in sometimes.

Like i said you created a thread to bait. Anyway this has been done before and im not inclined to post a thousand word essay on thors feats. You brought up qs scan which had no relevance to this match as a means to put down Thor. Then when i explained that Thor countered his speed then grabbed him before he could recover you said it's not relevant because he couldn't do this to superman. Anyway what is Clark gonna do if Thor spins mjolnir around at ftl speed while he's trying to blitz? Flight isn't available only super fast punches. Are u suggesting hes gonna punch thru that?

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Like i said you created a thread to bait. Anyway this has been done before and im not inclined to post a thousand word essay on thors feats. You brought up qs scan which had no relevance to this match as a means to put down Thor. Then when i explained that Thor countered his speed then grabbed him before he could recover you said it's not relevant because he couldn't do this to superman. Anyway what is Clark gonna do if Thor spins mjolnir around at ftl speed while he's trying to blitz? Flight isn't available only super fast punches. Are u suggesting hes gonna punch thru that?

Making false accusations doesn't help your case. Just because you can't provide the evidence I wondered exists doesn't mean this was a bait thread.

Thor smashed the ground and pinned Pietro pretty much as soon as he hit the ground. Since A: Quicksilver can't fly unlike Superman, B: Superman is far stronger than Quicksilver and won't be so easily pinned, C: Superman is a lot faster than Quicksilver, and D: this is a modified slugfest so that tactic isn't allowed even if it were to work on Superman despite all those things working against Quicksilver that don't work against Superman, how is it anything but utterly invalid? The fact that he had to SMASH THE GROUND just to get him off balance speaks volumes of Thor's comparative lack of speed.

And considering this is a slugfest, I would think spinning Mjolnir around as opposed to striking with it wouldn't qualify as a valid tactic. Even if it did, you would have to provide evidence that Thor would be fast enough to pull this off before being beaten into submission by a flurry of super speed punches. Unless you think he could just do it even when getting his face smashed in faster and harder than Mongoose did? You saying I'm using low showings for Thor's combat speed but not providing anything but poorly arguing that the Quicksilver example is relevant is not providing evidence that I'm lowballing Thor's combat speed.

Fight One: Superman.

Fight Two: Thor.

Are they allowed to dodge and parry in these slugfests, or is this Rocky-esque block with your head fighting?

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Fight One: Superman.

Fight Two: Thor.

One: The topic is actually how many wins would Thor get out of 10, not who wins a majority/who wins. Two: What examples do you have that would have Thor overcome Superman's speed in scenario two?

Originally posted by MF DELPH
Are they allowed to dodge and parry in these slugfests, or is this Rocky-esque block with your head fighting?

They just stand there and punch each other until one goes down, no dodging, parrying or blocking. Normally speed isn't allowed in a slugfest, and I believe melee weapons as well as banned, but I'm modifying the slugfest rules for fight two to allow Thor Mjolnir and Superman to throw a barrage of punches at super speed.

Originally posted by Delta1938
Making false accusations doesn't help your case. Just because you can't provide the evidence I wondered exists doesn't mean this was a bait thread.

Thor smashed the ground and pinned Pietro pretty much as soon as he hit the ground. Since A: Quicksilver can't fly unlike Superman, B: Superman is far stronger than Quicksilver and won't be so easily pinned, C: Superman is a lot faster than Quicksilver, and D: this is a modified slugfest so that tactic isn't allowed even if it were to work on Superman despite all those things working against Quicksilver that don't work against Superman, how is it anything but utterly invalid? The fact that he had to SMASH THE GROUND just to get him off balance speaks volumes of Thor's comparative lack of speed.

And considering this is a slugfest, I would think spinning Mjolnir around as opposed to striking with it wouldn't qualify as a valid tactic. Even if it did, you would have to provide evidence that Thor would be fast enough to pull this off before being beaten into submission by a flurry of super speed punches. Unless you think he could just do it even when getting his face smashed in faster and harder than Mongoose did? You saying I'm using low showings for Thor's combat speed but not providing anything but poorly arguing that the Quicksilver example is relevant is not providing evidence that I'm lowballing Thor's combat speed.

What accusations are false? This IS a bait thread. I didn't bring up QS u did. Marvel does not depict their heralds moving a super speed in h2h . Not even the ones we KNOW have superspeed like Gladiator, Surfer, Hyperion etc. Hell DC doesn't even do it often enough outside the Flashes. Any scan i provide will just keep this shit storm of a thread going (like the trench digging feat, enchantress feat etc) . I just know that he's never had an issue dealing with herald levelers who have superspeed so it's warranted IMO that's its a non factor. Mongoose, QS, Wolverine doing anything other than annoying him is absurd whe he's caught Zephyr and Hermes who are legit speedsters is ludicrous.

i'd take clark for a solid majority in the first, say 7-8/10. the second would be a lot closer. i'd say a split. supes tends to NOT hit as hard when he's throwing superspeed punches. a solid hammer shot could stagger him to give thor the win, if he can handle getting hit a 100 times to land one.....

so let me ask again...magic weakness not a factor here?

no more a factor than captain marvel's fist hitting superman imo. or wonder woman's maybe. if thor isn't charging the hammer at all i don't see it's striking power being much more of an issue than those others. besides, supes has many very strong showings against magic anyway....enough imo to think that a regular hammer strike wouldn't possess enough inherent magic to be of particular threat here.

Originally posted by Delta1938
Based on?
Comics

Originally posted by leonidas
no more a factor than captain marvel's fist hitting superman imo. or wonder woman's maybe. if thor isn't charging the hammer at all i don't see it's striking power being much more of an issue than those others. besides, supes has many very strong showings against magic anyway....enough imo to think that a regular hammer strike wouldn't possess enough inherent magic to be of particular threat here.
cool...I was thinking a magic thunder imbued hammer strike

Originally posted by Warlord
so let me ask again...magic VULNERABILITY not a factor here?

Fixed

And as mentioned by Leo is as much factor as all the other magic he has faced before.

But based on how Thor TENDS to end up after a flurry of NON-Superman level punches thrown at Super-speed, I believe the speed is more of a factor than magic vulnerability.

IMO anyway

Originally posted by Warlord
cool...I was thinking a magic thunder imbued hammer strike

if he can charge the hammer, it would certainly have more of an impact, like the charged sucker punch from marvel. i was under the impression it was just straight slugging with the hammer and no use of powers from it. if he can charge it, i would give thor a slight edge, 6/10.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
What accusations are false? This IS a bait thread. I didn't bring up QS u did. Marvel does not depict their heralds moving a super speed in h2h . Not even the ones we KNOW have superspeed like Gladiator, Surfer, Hyperion etc. Hell DC doesn't even do it often enough outside the Flashes. Any scan i provide will just keep this shit storm of a thread going (like the trench digging feat, enchantress feat etc) . I just know that he's never had an issue dealing with herald levelers who have superspeed so it's warranted IMO that's its a non factor. Mongoose, QS, Wolverine doing anything other than annoying him is absurd whe he's caught Zephyr and Hermes who are legit speedsters is ludicrous.

You have absolutely nothing but your unsubstantiated opinion that it's a bait thread. I gave my reasons for making that scenario, wondering if there's examples that Thor could actually reasonably keep-up with Superman. You've provided nothing, just accused me of making bait threads, defending an example that doesn't hold water, and claiming I'm lowballing Thor 'cuz you disagree.

Yeah, I brought up the Quicksilver fight. But you defended it. Are you saying you bothered arguing it just 'cuz, or do you think it's an example that Thor can reasonably keep-up with Superman? The way you defended it is kinda like arguing, say, early Quasar can hold his own in a pure hand-to-hand fight against Doomsday because he took-out Thing with an energy blast.

So accusing me of making a bait thread and calling it a "shitstorm" and you're still here? If it really bothers you so much, why are you here? Anyways, you're arguing that just because Thor fights opponents with combat super speed means he can keep-up with them, even if they don't show super speed because we know they do? Didn't you previously argue that Superman doesn't always speed-blitz? But are you now arguing that Thor fights others at super speed because they have it? If that is the case, that's completely hypocritical. I don't argue Metallo, Mongul, Equs, ect have combat speed just because they fight Superman.

And Thor digging that trench and catching Hermes are good speed feats for Thor, but not good enough to argue keeping-up with Superman speed-blitzing. The trench example had him digging "almost faster than the eye can see." Gross motor movement that still wasn't too fast for the eye to see. Catching Hermes did show some superhuman perception speed, but the actual catching was more a travel speed feat, not too useful for arguing Thor's combat speed. And not only did Thor not fight at super speed against Hephaestus after, but Hermes was shown after only moving ALMOST too fast for normal eyes to see, even if Hephaestus' sneak attack hindered Thor's fighting speed.

http://s1199.photobucket.com/user/Delta1938/library/Alternates/Miscellaneous/Speed/Hermes

Compare that to Superman who has done more complex tasks requiring fine motor skill and doing it too fast for the eye to see, and it's not the best argument.

http://s1199.photobucket.com/user/Delta1938/library/Superman%20speed/Speed%20Blitzes%20And%20Equivalents/Speedblitz%20Equivalents/Batman_is_helpless

http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Superman%20speed/Speed%20Blitzes%20And%20Equivalents/Speedblitz%20Equivalents/Miscellaneous/AOS0-PG03.jpg

http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Superman%20speed/Speed%20Blitzes%20And%20Equivalents/Speedblitz%20Equivalents/Miscellaneous/AOS543-PG17.jpg

http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Superman%20speed/Speed%20Blitzes%20And%20Equivalents/Speedblitz%20Equivalents/Miscellaneous/SUPERMANANNUAL13-PG15.jpg

And these aren't even Superman's best. I'm not familiar with the Enchantress example, but if he Zephyr example is what I'm thinking, not bad for Thor, but also not something that doesn't translate well as an exam for Thor's combat speed. Hell, I believe Hal Jordan had a similar but more impressive example of catching Flash, but you don't see me arguing Hal blitzes Thor.

Basically, you're arguing your opinion, which you're not adequately backing. You thinking Mongoose, Quicksilver and Wolverine being faster in combat speed than Thor is absurd because of a couple non-combat speed showings ain't gonna cut it. Nor is arguing Thor fighting at super speed against Gladiator, Hyperion or Surfer(who's combat speed seems overrated, but that's another topic) 'cuz they have it. If that is what you were arguing.

Do you have better speed showings for Thor? If so, show them. If not, I'd appreciate you not accusing me of baiting, then complaining that I'm pointing-out your examples aren't up to par when they legitimately aren't.

Originally posted by Warlord
so let me ask again...magic weakness not a factor here?

It's not a weakness. Typical strikes won't hurt any more than equivalently non-mystical physical strikes. Considering many feats Superman has against magick, even charged strikes could be the same and just hit harder, not disproportionately effect him.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Comics

Care to elaborate?

Originally posted by leonidas
if he can charge the hammer, it would certainly have more of an impact, like the charged sucker punch from marvel. i was under the impression it was just straight slugging with the hammer and no use of powers from it. if he can charge it, i would give thor a slight edge, 6/10.

I didn't say charged strikes were disallowed, but I don't believe Thor uses them often, so me, I figure he only uses them in a few of the fights in scenario 2. I made the second scenario more to see if the Thor side could provide better speed feats than I've seen, and examples that standard Mjolnir strikes hit particularly harder than Thor's punches.

Also, it actually took two Zeus amped punches from Captain Marvel, the first being a sucker punch. And Cap still hurt his hand.

Originally posted by Delta1938
I.....I seriously hope you're joking.



Captain America compared Masterson Thor to Thor in speed the issue prior to Spidey blitzing him. Seems like it's a valid example, but it's not even imporant.

Thor slammed the ground with Mjolnir knocking Pietro off balance. That tactic wouldn't work against a speed-blitzing Superman even ignoring that this is a slugfest, so Thor can't do that. If Thor couldn't tag Quicksilver, who is slower and can't hurt Thor like Superman can, then how is that fight relevant when Thor can't use the only thing that allowed him to beat Quicksilver if we pretend it would be useful against Superman?

And they're low showings? Prove it. The Quicksilver example is obviously irrelevant for your case considering what actually happens and just supports my point. What is there for you to argue Gladiator or Mongoose being too fast for him(effectively too fast with alt Gladiator's case) to really deal with well? I could maybe buy Wolverine, but that's not even assured.



In regards to conventional striking, it doesn't seem to be a major factor in the Thor/Hercules fights I've seen. Charged strikes? That's a different argument.



Fight one is a standard slugfest, no Mjolnir for Thor. Fight two Thor gets Mjolnir to hit with, but Superman can punch at super speed.

No, I get that. Actually, nvm, I had misunderstood something else. Now I see that Superman can't block or parry.

Superman in the first, Thor in the second.

Originally posted by Bentley
Like the often cited night battle you use for Prime. Context goes both ways




Which arc are you referring to? Prime was not mentioned to be weakened at all in that story and on top of that he had his special armor on as well.

Grog in the Seth arc and I believe the arc when his body was cursed by Hela.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Yeah, that's a huge testament to his pain tolerance. And unlike Thor who was running away from Absorbing Man like a coward that he is when his bones were cursed, Superman fought Preus and then 300 Gogs at the same time for an extended time and was able to endure kryptonite for hundreds of years. Do you really want to start this game because I can definitely be your huckleberry.

Originally posted by Rao Kal El
Lol, no

Even Quani accepts Superman is stronger.

Imo you are dead wrong on this one It doesn't matter what I accept and what I don't accept as opinions vary.

Originally posted by -Pr-
No, I get that. Actually, nvm, I had misunderstood something else. Now I see that Superman can't block or parry.

Superman in the first, Thor in the second.

So why do you think Mjolnir outweighs Superman's speed in scenario two?

Originally posted by Delta1938

Captain America compared Masterson Thor to Thor in speed the issue prior to Spidey blitzing him. Seems like it's a valid example, but it's not even imporant.


Lol.

Almost missed this.

http://s30.postimg.org/3rmmndwp9/Thor_447_10.jpghttp://s30.postimg.org/57y55izm5/Thor_447_11.jpg

Where did he do this?

Actually, here's Thor in the same training session:
http://s1.postimg.org/vxk6amddn/Thor_1990_427_07.jpg http://s1.postimg.org/ami0sm5vf/Thor_1990_427_08.jpg

Yea, if these scenes prove anything, it's that Masterson and Thor are comparable in regards to battle competency and reflexes.

Because I think that Mjolnir, hitting him when he can't brace or try to dodge it, will seriously hurt.

Originally posted by Delta1938
One: The topic is actually how many wins would Thor get out of 10, not who wins a majority/who wins. Two: What examples do you have that would have Thor overcome Superman's speed in scenario two?


Why would he need to overcome it?

They can't dodge. Superman will be able to let off more punches, but some extra super speed jabs aren't on the same level as a Mjolnir hit. Heck, sometimes dozens of super speed attacks aren't even on the level of a regular punch.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Lol.

Almost missed this.

http://s30.postimg.org/3rmmndwp9/Thor_447_10.jpghttp://s30.postimg.org/57y55izm5/Thor_447_11.jpg

Where did he do this?

Actually, here's Thor in the same training session:
http://s1.postimg.org/vxk6amddn/Thor_1990_427_07.jpg http://s1.postimg.org/ami0sm5vf/Thor_1990_427_08.jpg

Yea, if these scenes prove anything, it's that Masterson and Thor are comparable in regards to battle competency and reflexes. Using Masterson Thor as a comparison to the real Thor is indeed desperate.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Lol.

Almost missed this.

http://s30.postimg.org/3rmmndwp9/Thor_447_10.jpghttp://s30.postimg.org/57y55izm5/Thor_447_11.jpg

Where did he do this?

Actually, here's Thor in the same training session:
http://s1.postimg.org/vxk6amddn/Thor_1990_427_07.jpg http://s1.postimg.org/ami0sm5vf/Thor_1990_427_08.jpg

Yea, if these scenes prove anything, it's that Masterson and Thor are comparable in regards to battle competency and reflexes.

The issue reference was in the scans' file and folder names. THOR #447. So, you're comparing the droids focused on Captain America, and Thor coming behind and zapping them with a lightning strike when they're not focused on him, to Masterson Thor getting them going right after him? It doesn't look the same at all, even ignoring what the writer had Cap say.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Why would he need to overcome it?

They can't dodge. Superman will be able to let off more punches, but some extra super speed jabs aren't on the same level as a Mjolnir hit. Heck, sometimes dozens of super speed attacks aren't even on the level of a regular punch.

Maybe because unless you have better examples, Superman's speed advantage is too great? This is the best relevant speed feat for Thor I know of.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/10/104912/2984631-thor+microsecond.jpg

Reacting to something in a few microseconds. Superman, by comparison, has shown greater than nanosecond time perception. And you react quicker than you perceive time.

http://s1199.photobucket.com/user/Delta1938/library/Superman%20speed/Reflexes-Reaction%20Time-Time%20Perception/Nano_Second_Fraction

Even if we lowball Superman to a "mere" nanosecond and exaggerate Thor's feat to a single microsecond, there's 1,000 nanoseconds in a microsecond. This would give Superman the equivalent of nearly 17 minutes of free, unanswered punches to Thor's face before he can react. Even if they're less effective, you think Thor wouldn't be overwhelmed and KOed by the time he even knew he was in a fight? Or does Thor have better relevant speed showings?

Originally posted by -Pr-
Because I think that Mjolnir, hitting him when he can't brace or try to dodge it, will seriously hurt.

Unless there's better relevant showings for Thor, still think Mjolnir overcomes Superman's speed advantage here?

I don't think his speed advantage is as much of an advantage as it would be if he could parry and dodge, tbh.

Sure, he can punch faster, but faster punches means less force, especially when his speed is restricted.

Originally posted by -Pr-
I don't think his speed advantage is as much of an advantage as it would be if he could parry and dodge, tbh.

Sure, he can punch faster, but faster punches means less force, especially when his speed is restricted.

So you think that, lowballing Superman and exaggerating Thor, over 16 minutes of free punches isn't enough to put Thor down? Speed-blitzing worked pretty well here.

http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Superman%20speed/Speed%20Blitzes%20And%20Equivalents/Speed%20Blitzes/Miscellaneous/AOSANNUAL4-P16.jpg

Yeah, I know people argue Superman was amped. We can discuss that you want.

It also worked pretty well here.

http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Superman%20speed/Speed%20Blitzes%20And%20Equivalents/Speed%20Blitzes/Miscellaneous/SUPERMAN_V2-207-PG16.jpg

And here.

http://s1199.photobucket.com/user/Delta1938/library/Superman%20speed/Speed%20Blitzes%20And%20Equivalents/Speed%20Blitzes/Blitzes%20Cyborg-Superman

And other examples. You REALLY think speed-blitz punches are that much weaker that God knows how many over such a long period of time relative to Superman wouldn't work? Assuming Thor doesn't have better speed showings.

Originally posted by -Pr-
I don't think his speed advantage is as much of an advantage as it would be if he could parry and dodge, tbh.

Sure, he can punch faster, but faster punches means less force, especially when his speed is restricted.

Only if you think Thor and Superman have relatively close speed levels.

Thor's actually pretty fast, going by his history. The trouble is, Supes is a TOP end speedster. Guy even caught Barry Allen off guard (And I have no doubt Barry's faster, and was caught flat footed, but it's still impressive.)

It's a debate whether Thor can keep up with guys like Max Mercury or Johnny Quick, and Supes is a good deal faster then they are..

Originally posted by Delta1938
So you think that, lowballing Superman and exaggerating Thor, over 16 minutes of free punches isn't enough to put Thor down? Speed-blitzing worked pretty well here.

http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Superman%20speed/Speed%20Blitzes%20And%20Equivalents/Speed%20Blitzes/Miscellaneous/AOSANNUAL4-P16.jpg

Yeah, I know people argue Superman was amped. We can discuss that you want.

It also worked pretty well here.

http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Superman%20speed/Speed%20Blitzes%20And%20Equivalents/Speed%20Blitzes/Miscellaneous/SUPERMAN_V2-207-PG16.jpg

And here.

http://s1199.photobucket.com/user/Delta1938/library/Superman%20speed/Speed%20Blitzes%20And%20Equivalents/Speed%20Blitzes/Blitzes%20Cyborg-Superman

And other examples. You REALLY think speed-blitz punches are that much weaker that God knows how many over such a long period of time relative to Superman wouldn't work? Assuming Thor doesn't have better speed showings.

Are you REALLY accusing me of lowballing Superman?

Originally posted by cdtm
Only if you think Thor and Superman have relatively close speed levels.

Thor's actually pretty fast, going by his history. The trouble is, Supes is a TOP end speedster. Guy even caught Barry Allen off guard (And I have no doubt Barry's faster, and was caught flat footed, but it's still impressive.)

It's a debate whether Thor can keep up with guys like Max Mercury or Johnny Quick, and Supes is a good deal faster then they are..

I don't think they are, no. Superman has a definite speed advantage.

I just refuse to argue him as some sort of forum avatar who attempts to hit Thor a thousand times a second.

He has a following, but forum avatar on KMC? I don't think even super fans like Abhi compare to RC back on Alvaro's, claiming Supes massacres Thanos and Galactus with all seriousness..

Or seriously argue he could beat skyfathers, like fans of certain world breaking characters.

Originally posted by cdtm
He has a following, but forum avatar on KMC? I don't think even super fans like Abhi compare to RC back on Alvaro's, claiming Supes massacres Thanos and Galactus with all seriousness..

Or seriously argue he could beat skyfathers, like fans of certain world breaking characters.

Have you met Abhi or H1?

This isn't me, or you, or any other member in Superman's body. This is Superman himself.

You (or anyone else) wants to argue that Superman would hit Thor too quickly, too much that it would make Thor with Mjolnir ineffectual? Go ahead; I don't agree, but that's me.

Reasonable and respectful debater. Even though we don't get along..I respect that. There aren't a lot of people on the forum like that, if any.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Are you REALLY accusing me of lowballing Superman?

Not at all. I was referring to my point that even if you lowball Superman's time perception feat to "merely" a nanosecond, and exaggerate Thor's a few microseconds reflex feat to a single microsecond, that's still over 16 minutes to Superman's perceptions.

Originally posted by -Pr-

I don't think they are, no. Superman has a definite speed advantage.

I just refuse to argue him as some sort of forum avatar who attempts to hit Thor a thousand times a second.

Unless Thor has better relevant speed feats, that's pretty much what the scenario is. Why I made the scenario, to see if there's better relevant speed feats.

Originally posted by carver9
Reasonable and respectful debater. Even though we don't get along..I respect that. There aren't a lot of people on the forum like that, if any.

Quiet, Bannerbag.

Originally posted by Delta1938
Not at all. I was referring to my point that even if you lowball Superman's time perception feat to "merely" a nanosecond, and exaggerate Thor's a few microseconds reflex feat to a single microsecond, that's still over 16 minutes to Superman's perceptions.



Unless Thor has better relevant speed feats, that's pretty much what the scenario is. Why I made the scenario, to see if there's better relevant speed feats.

Oh, okay. Good. sneer

So you came in to this expecting some sort of spite scenario, given how you view things?

Is not like he has not blitzed speedsters on his history.

As a matter of fact now that I am re-reading his whole series again, he does uses super-speed more often than many think.

He resorts to this flurry of punches mainly when he knows the enemy he is facing will require such tactic to put him down.

And when he does not use his Super speed is when he is facing guys like Lex Luthor, Metallo or adversaries that do not have super speed or do not require super speed to be defeated

But if Someone is fast, strong enough or is giving him enough trouble with a weakness/vulnerability exploitation, he could/will resort to those tactics and he has done it in the past, for most of what I have read before though.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Quiet, Bannerbag.



Oh, okay. Good. sneer

So you came in to this expecting some sort of spite scenario, given how you view things?

You need a Snickers too?

I see a lot of Marvel fans argue Thor has the speed to keep-up with Superman. I thought maybe this would get them to produce the feats to back that if they exist.

Originally posted by Rao Kal El
Is not like he has not blitzed speedsters on his history.

As a matter of fact now that I am re-reading his whole series again, he does uses super-speed more often than many think.

He resorts to this flurry of punches mainly when he knows the enemy he is facing will require such tactic to put him down.

And when he does not use his Super speed is when he is facing guys like Lex Luthor, Metallo or adversaries that do not have super speed or do not require super speed to be defeated

But if Someone is fast, strong enough or is giving him enough trouble with a weakness/vulnerability exploitation, he could/will resort to those tactics and he has done it in the past, for most of what I have read before though.

Yep; Superman is reactionary. Newton's laws etc.

Originally posted by Delta1938
You need a Snickers too?

I see a lot of Marvel fans argue Thor has the speed to keep-up with Superman. I thought maybe this would get them to produce the feats to back that if they exist.

I hate Snickers, funnily enough. Can't stand peanuts. Not allergic, just hate them.

Ah. I think you'll be hard pressed then. I think it's more a question of how long it will take Superman to use his speed, and to what extent.

Originally posted by -Pr-

I hate Snickers, funnily enough. Can't stand peanuts. Not allergic, just hate them.

I.....I don't know what to say.....

Originally posted by -Pr-
Ah. I think you'll be hard pressed then. I think it's more a question of how long it will take Superman to use his speed, and to what extent.

Well since the scenario is about Superman using his speed, I would think at worst it would be after taking a strike or two.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Why would he need to overcome it?

They can't dodge. Superman will be able to let off more punches, but some extra super speed jabs aren't on the same level as a Mjolnir hit. Heck, sometimes dozens of super speed attacks aren't even on the level of a regular punch.
Funnily enough, Superman's superspeed punches do carry more power than his regular punches.

http://img132.imageshack.us/i/ccf1226201000010.jpg/

And Superman hits harder than Thor with mjolnir on regular. With a superspeed combo? Thor would be out like light.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Funnily enough, Superman's superspeed punches do carry more power than his regular punches.

http://img132.imageshack.us/i/ccf1226201000010.jpg/

And Superman hits harder than Thor with mjolnir on regular. With a superspeed combo? Thor would be out like light. I disagree.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Troll harder, your almost at fangirl status. I believe in u
Oooh, someone is angry. Cry harder.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Have you met Abhi or H1?

This isn't me, or you, or any other member in Superman's body. This is Superman himself.

You (or anyone else) wants to argue that Superman would hit Thor too quickly, too much that it would make Thor with Mjolnir ineffectual? Go ahead; I don't agree, but that's me.
Your lack of faith in me is disturbing.

uhuh

Originally posted by quanchi112
I disagree.

You disagree because of your LIES!

Originally posted by -Pr-
I don't think his speed advantage is as much of an advantage as it would be if he could parry and dodge, tbh.

Sure, he can punch faster, but faster punches means less force, especially when his speed is restricted.

I disagree, flash can punch harder because of his speed.

Superman can reel back and punch with full force using super speed instead of throwing quick jabs at super speed.

Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
You disagree because of your LIES!

Originally posted by Delta1938
New Earth Superman, not the current. Not a gauntlet, simply two separate fights.

Fight One: Standard slugfest, both standing in front of each other trading punches, no Mjolnir.

Fight Two: Modified slugfest. Thor has Mjolnir, but Superman can use super speed punching, otherwise still standing there trading blows.

Superman wins the first everytime.
Thor only wins the second if he is allowed to whirl and slam. If just standard one handed swings then Superman wins everytime. Thor wins 4/10 with two handed non whirling swings though.

It's say 1/10 scenario #1, 4/10 scenario #2 for Thor. Without Mjolnir he doesn't hit as hard, and Supes is going to lay him out eventually. With Mjolnir and super speed for both Thor is going to be constantly getting punched and it's going to be hard for him to mount a solid offensive through the barrage of punches, but when he does connect it will take more out of Superman than his regular punches would so he has slightly better odds.

Fight one, Superman wins. Superman's a tad stronger than Thor, is why. His punches would do more damage overtime.

Fight two, Superman again. With Supes super speed punches that are just as strong or even stronger than his normal punches, along with him being a tad stronger than Thor wins against Mjolnir strikes that would come out 1/10 as fast even though I believe a Mjolnir strike may be a bit stronger than a Supes punch. But the number of connected hits wins this. And Superman will be the one with most landed punches this round.

So Superman 2/2.

Originally posted by MF DELPH
It's say 1/10 scenario #1, 4/10 scenario #2 for Thor. Without Mjolnir he doesn't hit as hard, and Supes is going to lay him out eventually. With Mjolnir and super speed for both Thor is going to be constantly getting punched and it's going to be hard for him to mount a solid offensive through the barrage of punches, but when he does connect it will take more out of Superman than his regular punches would so he has slightly better odds. I was thinking they are trading punches (taking turns after each strike). That's why 'super speed punches' makes no sense here.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Oooh, someone is angry. Cry harder.

Angry? No love it's only comics. I'd love to bz you if i had time but meh

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Angry? No love it's only comics. I'd love to bz you if i had time but meh
Of course you're angry. Don't worry, it'll pass and you'll accept that Superman>>Thor.

Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
You disagree because of your LIES! Thor wins. Just don't let it get you down. Superior warrior.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Of course you're angry. Don't worry, it'll pass and you'll accept that Superman>>Thor.

Naw, can't respect a guy who can't even understand his own potential. .

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Naw, can't respect a guy who can't even understand his own potential. .
Superman understands his potential far more than Thor who acts like a dumb brawler 99% of the time.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Superman understands his potential far more than Thor who acts like a dumb brawler 99% of the time. That is incorrect. Superman also tends to slug it out as well. Thor is a prideful warrior born unlike the Daily Planet pencil pusher.

Originally posted by h1a8
I was thinking they are trading punches (taking turns after each strike). That's why 'super speed punches' makes no sense here.

I think it's more akin to both of them just throwing haymakers at eachother in a brawl and not holding back or defending themselves. That's what I think of when I think of a slugfest (or as J.R. would say, a slobberknocker). Taking turns punching eachother is a bit too organized and more of a test of might than a slugfest.

Originally posted by h1a8
I was thinking they are trading punches (taking turns after each strike). That's why 'super speed punches' makes no sense here.

I thought the same thing, but superman can amp his punches with supers peed.

About how the fight is going down, I've always understood a slugfest to be each individual is independently throwing as many punches as they can until one of them loses, not taking turns punching each other. And that's what I had in mind for the both scenarios.

As for the second scenario, I'm really not seeing any convincing arguments that Thor does much better with Mjolnir even if we ignore feats haven't been produced to show Thor can reasonably keep-up. All I'm seeing is people saying Thor will hit harder than Mjolnir. In many fights I've seen, unless Thor is winding-up or charging Mjolnir, it doesn't really seem to be causing more damage. Are there examples with scans to back Thor's standard Mjolnir strikes are significantly more powerful than his punches, or are people just assuming?

Originally posted by Delta1938
About how the fight is going down, I've always understood a slugfest to be each individual is independently throwing as many punches as they can until one of them loses, not taking turns punching each other. And that's what I had in mind for the both scenarios.

As for the second scenario, I'm really not seeing any convincing arguments that Thor does much better with Mjolnir even if we ignore feats haven't been produced to show Thor can reasonably keep-up. All I'm seeing is people saying Thor will hit harder than Mjolnir. In many fights I've seen, unless Thor is winding-up or charging Mjolnir, it doesn't really seem to be causing more damage. Are there examples with scans to back Thor's standard Mjolnir strikes are significantly more powerful than his punches, or are people just assuming?

If they aren't taking turns hitting each other, the 2nd fight for superman got a lot easier.

Originally posted by Diesldude
If they aren't taking turns hitting each other, the 2nd fight for superman got a lot easier.

Yeah, I guess when I said "they stand trading punches until one goes down" it could look like they're literally exchanging punches, taking turns. I did not make this with that in mind, at all.

Originally posted by abhilegend
I didn't.
Yeah, Thor is a real pussy.

http://i.imgur.com/vS41fnY.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/v6TeJyr.jpg

haermm

Taking another look at this, couldn't Thor have just used Mjolnir to BFR Absorbing Man? At the time, was he only shown to BFR opponents by tricking them into portals(something that wouldn't be easy in his condition, even against a relative simpleton like Absorbing Man), or is this an example of Thor being retarded?

Is that canon? I think he was too weak to open the portal there, that's why he walked away in a hurry..

Originally posted by Delta1938
I.....I don't know what to say.....



Well since the scenario is about Superman using his speed, I would think at worst it would be after taking a strike or two.

i'd hope so.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Funnily enough, Superman's superspeed punches do carry more power than his regular punches.

http://img132.imageshack.us/i/ccf1226201000010.jpg/

And Superman hits harder than Thor with mjolnir on regular. With a superspeed combo? Thor would be out like light.

if it's a 1:1 thing, i'd agree, but a superspeed flurry? can't agree with that.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Your lack of faith in me is disturbing.

uhuh

yeah, because you give me so much reason to trust you... oh.

Originally posted by Diesldude
I disagree, flash can punch harder because of his speed.

Superman can reel back and punch with full force using super speed instead of throwing quick jabs at super speed.

which was what I was talking about. a single, strong punch, amped with superspeed, is great. a quick flurry of "machine gun" punches, not so much.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Naw, can't respect a guy who can't even understand his own potential. .

what?

Originally posted by Diesldude
Is that canon? I think he was too weak to open the portal there, that's why he walked away in a hurry..

Abhi said it's from when Hela cursed him and made his bones brittle, which is canon. Considering he directly says his pain is because of Hela, I'd think this is from that. But Thor wasn't weakened in regards to strength, but that's not what I meant. I've seen Thor use Mjolnir to BFR opponents without opening portals, just kinda send them off somewhere else. My question is at the time this fight with Absorbing Man happened, had he only shown to BFR opponents by opening portals and tricking them into it(which I could understand would be difficult at best in his condition), or could he just sorta point Mjolnir and teleport opponents away but was too stupid to do that?

Thor bfr'd the Void in Seige so Iron man could drop the hellicarrier on him, though he only ported him a short distance

Originally posted by Insane Titan
Thor bfr'd the Void in Seige so Iron man could drop the hellicarrier on him, though he only ported him a short distance

My question is in regards to if Thor had done stuff like that around or before the time Hela made his bones brittle. If he hadn't, then I can understand him not being able(at least easily) to use a portal to BFR Absorbing Man, hence running away, or if he could just kinda point Mjolnir and BFR him and Thor was being retarded.

Originally posted by -Pr-


if it's a 1:1 thing, i'd agree, but a superspeed flurry? can't agree with that. Really? Lobo would disagree.


http://i.imgur.com/8NO26bW.jpg

As would Henshaw.

http://imgur.com/GTykJuv
http://imgur.com/LRl4fNx


Of course I do.



Where is this coming from? Why would a flurry of punches be weaker than a normal punch? Listening to Rage is injurious to brain.

uhuh

I don't agree, and I don't think the scans you posted really do much to contradict what I said.

Originally posted by -Pr-
I don't agree, and I don't think the scans you posted really do much to contradict what I said.
Superman WTFpwning Lobo and Henshaw with blitz-punches somehow reinforces the point that superspeed punches are weaker than normal punches?

mmm



mhmm


Sorry, not buying that.

Anybody thinking Thor gets even one win in a bare-knuckle slugfest against Superman is a a moron.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Superman WTFpwning Lobo and Henshaw with blitz-punches somehow reinforces the point that superspeed punches are weaker than normal punches?

mmm



mhmm


Sorry, not buying that.

You're using the word "weaker" to mean "weak", when you shouldn't. There's a difference.

How many punches are you assuming Superman would throw in the time it takes him to "charge" one punch?

^

I'm simply dismissing the notion that every superspeed punch from Superman IS going to be weaker than his normal punch which is something Rage has propagated for some time now. Sometimes it is treated as weaker, sometimes it is treated as stronger and that's where majority of his superspeed blitzes falls.

Superman can throw as many punch as he wants in this scenario. Honestly even if you grant him half his striking power with a punch, 50 punches in a second to a Thor who can't react and thus roll with the punches would KTFO him. It took only four punches at superspeed to knock out Lobo FFS.