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Who would out-bend the other?
Round 1: Full moon - NO BLOOD BENDING
Round 2: No full moon
Takes place on a rocky terrain with ocean nearby.

I think I may be leaning towards Toph, Katara takes this during the full moon I think... not entirely sure...

Katara was more smart than she was a legendary groundbreaking bender.

Toph created a whole new fighting style as well as created a whole new form of bending on her own that thousands would soon adopt in LOK

That's good for Toph, but I don't think it has any bearing on the fight.

It does when that bending prowess is what made her legendary in combat by age twelve.

And since Katara is primarily stuck on the ground when fighting, she's at a disadvantage because of TOph's earth-sense.

I was referring to her metalbending.

Depends on the environment. Metal might be the hardest to gather, and smallest in size to use, but it had very durable usage.

Originally posted by King Joker
Takes place on a rocky terrain with ocean nearby.
No metal.

Besides, Katara can cut through metal.

It took Katara and Aang a very long time to cut a foot or so into a single metal beam. So that doesn't mean much.

Regardless, even without metal bending, Toph holds an advantage in that she can see Katara's every move, sense where she is, and even see her heartbeat. Plus Toph could easily just make a massive wall to block Katara from the ocean.

Katara has improved since that point.

Unless Katara is on ice, or on the ocean. And it depends whether or not Katara gets in the ocean before (if she) makes a giant wall. And if Toph does even do that, Katara can use water from the vegetation nearby.

Originally posted by King Joker
Katara has improved since that point.

Unless Katara is on ice, or on the ocean. And it depends whether or not Katara gets in the ocean before (if she) makes a giant wall. And if Toph does even do that, Katara can use water from the vegetation nearby.


Katara isnt legendary like toph is.

Originally posted by King Joker
No metal. This seems sort of like gimping.

Anyone else think this seems sort of like gimping?

Gimping?

Gimping. Intentionally taking away some advantage from one character to help another one.

Toph can't use metal, but Katara has access to vegetation in a rocky area. That's gimping.

'Nearby' is far enough for Toph to pin Katara down and crush her ankles. The advantage comes only if Katara manages to get Toph in the ocean, which I find unlikely.

Originally posted by KingD19
Gimping. Intentionally taking away some advantage from one character to help another one.

Toph can't use metal, but Katara has access to vegetation in a rocky area. That's gimping.

I don't think that's unfair, Toph having metalbending would be a pretty major trump card, and I don't think Katara using some vegetation for her waterbending would be unfair either...

Originally posted by BloodRain
'Nearby' is far enough for Toph to pin Katara down and crush her ankles. The advantage comes only if Katara manages to get Toph in the ocean, which I find unlikely.
Katara only needs to get herself in the ocean really, then Toph couldn't sense any vibrations. Maybe Katara could subdue Toph with some water she gets from the grass or trees or whatever?

I think giving Toph metalbending would probably be gimping... :/

Toph has statues built in her honor and followers who specialize in metal bending her accomplishments far exceed those of kataras that proves she was the more prolific bender

No, it doesn't. If Katara created a sub-element there would be statues of her, too. And because she didn't create one doesn't by default suggest Toph > Katara. Honestly for me it could go either way, but as it stands now I'm leaning Katara.

And I'd like to point out, that even if there was no vegetation for Katara to use, or Toph created a wall to block the ocean, Katara has that pouch of water always with her, and she can use the technique Hama taught her: to get water from thin air. So basically, Katara will always have water with her that fight.

Originally posted by King Joker
And I'd like to point out, that even if there was no vegetation for Katara to use, or Toph created a wall to block the ocean, Katara has that pouch of water always with her, and she can use the technique Hama taught her: to get water from thin air. So basically, Katara will always have water with her that fight.

The fact that there are more prolific water benders than katara out there shows toph would win. Katara doesnt have as many followers as toph does.

Toph was so great that she was an avatars teacher the same cant be said for katara

Yes, because Aang taught himself waterbending.

Originally posted by King Joker
Yes, because Aang taught himself waterbending.

No he didnt aang had a master at the northern water tribe which further proves my point. Katara wasnt great enough to be his teacher

Katara was without a doubt great enough to be his teacher, she freaking was his teacher! Hell, she was even beating Azula in Book 2! After Pakku taught Katara, Katara became a master waterbender, far beyond Aang at that point. Aang didn't really come even close, Katara finished Aang's waterbending training. He didn't progress much at the Northern Watertribe, he was just goofing off and didn't take it that seriously.

Originally posted by King Joker
Katara was without a doubt great enough to be his teacher, she freaking was his teacher! Hell, she was even beating Azula in Book 2! After Pakku taught Katara, Katara became a master waterbender, far beyond Aang at that point. Aang didn't really come even close, Katara finished Aang's waterbending training. He didn't progress much at the Northern Watertribe, he was just goofing off and didn't take it that seriously.


Katara did not finish aangs waterbender training in fact aang was actually better than her at waterbending to the point where she was jealous of him.


When did katara ever beat azula one on one lets be serious

Originally posted by chasedown
Katara did not finish aangs waterbender training in fact aang was actually better than her at waterbending to the point where she was jealous of him.


When did katara ever beat azula one on one lets be serious
What show did you watch? She did finish his training, or at least greatly advanced to a point where he was close to mastery. The entire time after Book 1 she was training him. And she was jealous of him until she got her training from Pakku.

She was beating her, one on one.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfTgfmp_PZ8
0:47-1:52

Originally posted by King Joker
What show did you watch? She did finish his training, or at least greatly advanced to a point where he was close to mastery. The entire time after Book 1 she was training him. And she was jealous of him until she got her training from Pakku.

She was beating her, one on one.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfTgfmp_PZ8
0:47-1:52

She never trained aang. They both read a scroll and practiced together she was never his teacher.

That fight was far from over what about all the other times azula got the best of her and ppl who were stronger than katara.

Oh my God. Come back to this debate when you've watched past Book 1. Thanks.

Originally posted by King Joker
Oh my God. Come back to this debate when you've watched past Book 1. Thanks.


What episode was it where katara actually taught him something. In all the other books aang focused on the other elements. And had multiple masters katara was not one of them.

I'm not going to scavenge for each episode she trained him -_- Yes, he did train in other elements, water being one of them. And if you're seriously denying Katara was his teacher, you're just being a troll. Stop.

Originally posted by King Joker
I'm not going to scavenge for each episode she trained him -_- Yes, he did train in other elements, water being one of them. And if you're seriously denying Katara was his teacher, you're just being a troll. Stop.

Im asking when did she train him your saying she did and im asking you to show or recall a scene where she trained aang in waterbending. Its called burden of proof you have to back up what you claim with facts and proof.


At mist the two of them just trained together she was never his master.

"Aang, these scrolls will help you master waterbending. But remember, they're no substitute for a real master."
-Master Pakku
After Pakku says that Aang glances to Katara and smiles. She's her waterbending master, and Pakku is also referring to her as his master when he says that. That episode was Season 2 Episode 1.

"Aang, it's no big deal, you'll take a break and try earthbending again when you're ready. Besides, you still have a lot of waterbending to work on." Season 2 Episode 9. In the next scene she teaches him how to have fast reflexes. And then he calls her "Sifu Katara." Sifu is what you call your martial arts master in Chinese.

In Season 2 Episode 2, she teaches him some Octopus move, she coaches him on his stance, how to protect his center while doing the move. She even says "Lets see what you got," and throws ice daggers at him, testing his reflexes and form.

She's OBVIOUSLY his waterbending master. And all this is what I could get on extremely short notice and a short amount of time. I recommend, before you enter debates, you actually know what you're talking about.

I forgot about those eps thats why i was asking you to show me i dont mind admitting being wrong about katara helping him from time to time.

Either way she still isnt as prolific a bender as toph is. Katara is alive in LOK and in that i didnt see as many ppl praising her as they do toph.

Especially since well see more of toph in the next season and im sure she will be displaying immense bending abilities we just gotta wait and see

Originally posted by chasedown


Either way she still isnt as prolific a bender as toph is. Katara is alive in LOK and in that i didnt see as many ppl praising her as they do toph.
The word prolific doesn't make sense in the context of what you're saying. Anyways, the reason why more people praise Top in TLoK is because she was the Chief of Police, and because she invented metalbending, which is widely used in TLoK. Yes, inventing metal bending is extremely impressive, and underlines how much Toph understood earthbending, but when it comes to a fight where she can't use metalbending, it doesn't really matter to be honest.

Toph wins. Pretty casually.

No katara fans it seems. It will definitely be a close fight. Just toph discovered a new style of bending doesn't mean it's more effective than others. I could see katara taking this, especially if she can get toph in the water. Toph can't swim.

That I recall Toph was generally stronger and more in tune with her element.

good luck healing a broken leg by being in tune. besides, she would have to be an effective bender. she's blind. katara can see. that is a huge bonus for her.

Originally posted by King Joker
The word prolific doesn't make sense in the context of what you're saying. Anyways, the reason why more people praise Top in TLoK is because she was the Chief of Police, and because she invented metalbending, which is widely used in TLoK. Yes, inventing metal bending is extremely impressive, and underlines how much Toph understood earthbending, but when it comes to a fight where she can't use metalbending, it doesn't really matter to be honest.

One who is prolific is one who excells in a particular field and is known for continually advancing the field as a whole.


That cant be said for katara yes she was an above average bender but there were many other waterbenders that were better than her. Toph however can be argued to be one of the greatest earth benders ever.

Toph literally has legendary status and known for her skill around the world. The same cant be said for katara

Originally posted by chasedown
One who is prolific is one who excells in a particular field and is known for continually advancing the field as a whole.


That cant be said for katara yes she was an above average bender but there were many other waterbenders that were better than her. Toph however can be argued to be one of the greatest earth benders ever.

Toph literally has legendary status and known for her skill around the world. The same cant be said for katara
If that's the definition of prolific, which I'm pretty sure it's not, then Katara is without a doubt greatly prolific. Throughout the series, Katara's skill in waterbending and her knowledge of water bending greatly increased, especially after her training from Hama. And Katara could also be argued to be one of the greatest waterbenders in the world. Definitely.

And I already told you why Toph has "legendary" status.

Originally posted by King Joker
If that's the definition of prolific, which I'm pretty sure it's not, then Katara is without a doubt greatly prolific. Throughout the series, Katara's skill in waterbending and her knowledge of water bending greatly increased, especially after her training from Hama. And Katara could also be argued to be one of the greatest waterbenders in the world. Definitely.

And I already told you why Toph has "legendary" status.


Go look up the definiton of prolific and what has katara done that would make her a prolific bender.

If you say bloodbending amon and unoloks father already surpassed them in that that

Her being greater than Azula and mastering waterbending outright in an extremely short amount of time earns her to be among legendary waterbending status.

Originally posted by King Joker
Her being greater than Azula and mastering waterbending outright in an extremely short amount of time earns her to be among legendary waterbending status.

None of the stuff you posted makes her legendary. Just because you become above average at bending doesnt make you legendary because as i said there are many water benders that are stronger than her in both series


Smh you just like katara better than toph.,....... Shes not even better than azula because azula has gotten the best of her and the gang countless times just because katara may have gotten the best of her once but that doesnt make her better than azula.

Azula was a greater better than even zuko. If it werent for her going crazy she would have easily defeated zuko and katara. This has been stated by zuko
himself

You just like katara more thats why you want her to win but the fact of the matter is that toph is too great at earthbending literrally the strongest in her style after king bumi and the avatar. She is renown worldwide has statues everywhere and "spoiler alert" even had a whole city named after her in her honor.


Katara is just a regular water bender

And you're quite possibly the least intelligent person I've ever encountered. None of what you said make any sense whatsoever. You're not worth arguing with, it's a complete waste of time to constantly repeat everything I've just said just for you to spew the same nonsense.

Originally posted by King Joker
And you're quite possibly the least intelligent person I've ever encountered. None of what you said make any sense whatsoever. You're not worth arguing with, it's a complete waste of time to constantly repeat everything I've just said just for you to spew the same nonsense.


How am i unintelligent nothing i said was wrong

Dont be mad because katara isnt as accomplished as toph.


My main point is that toph would win seeing as how when comparing the accomplishments of the two within their respective fields katara pales in comparison to toph. Toph learned bending from the first masters of earth bending the badger moles her level of expertise with her element exceeds kataras. This is all fact whethr you like it or not insulting me isnt gonna change that

Katara is as accomplished as Toph. You're ridiculous. You say I like Katara better than Toph, when in actuality Toph is my favorite character. You're just saying this because you have absolutely no argument that makes sense. Again, Toph is legendary because she invented metalbending and was the Chief of Police. Good for her, that doesn't mean she would win, lol. Katara isn't just a average waterbender, if you'd actually watch the series the you'd know that. Instead, you like to spew bullshit that she is just a average waterbender. She beat all of Master Pakku's students in waterbending with ease, and completely surpassed Aang, which led her to become his waterbending master. She was beating Azula, and you can't say that it's just a fluke, because Azula never beat her or the Gaang ever again after that point. All this proves you have no clue what you're talking about. Your "main argument" is absolutely retarded. Watch the damn series.

I'm not sure I'd say Katara is as good of a waterbender as Toph is an earthbender, but there really isn't much of a difference between them in fighting ability. She generally comes off as less impressive than Toph because she usually has way less water around than Toph has earth. But in terms of skill Katara is an utter prodigy who became one of the greatest waterbenders alive inside of a single year. Her, Toph, Azula and Aang are all complete geniuses in their respective areas.

Katara's fairly intelligent in combat as well, and knowing that Toph relies on her earthsense, it's certainly not a stretch to imagine her using water to try and mitigate that. Toph's shown that she can't get a good read on things on loose earth materials like sand, so muddying the ground could limit her senses.

You guys will see once toph makes her debut in lok season 3 what im talking about.

"I enjoyed watching Katara's waterbending progress in the original series, especially when she surpassed Aang in "The Siege of the North Part 2." Persistence trumps talent!"
- Gene Luen Yang, writer of The Promise.

Originally posted by chasedown
You guys will see once toph makes her debut in lok season 3 what im talking about.
When she's 70 years older, lol.

Originally posted by King Joker
When she's 70 years older, lol.


Bumi Roku and Ozai's father were bending at a high level at a very old age why dont you think toph can

And bumi was over 100 years old


Also idk if this counts toph and bumi had a fight in the comics to see who was the strongest earth bender in the world but the fight ended up in a draw..... This is a great feat for toph because bumi took retook a whole city occupied by the fire nation by himself

Toph overcame the loose ground issue by Book 3 when she was skilfully bending sand at the beach.


Lets assume that elements at the same level are equal to one another in combat. We'd have to look at their differences.

If memory serves, her bending skills were more defensive then offensive unless she has a large source. I believe this is important, as Toph is seen as the more combative one. She's been bending the true style for years and might be the youngest master around, and has been regularly competing in bending competitions.
Katara is very skilled, and has been in many battles, but I'd give the pure combat edge to Toph. This with her seismic senses, and little Katara could do to properly take advantage of it, and Toph takes it further.

And this is still working on the assumption that their Bending level and element is equal, whereas I believe Toph is more powerful generally.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Toph overcame the loose ground issue by Book 3 when she was skilfully bending sand at the beach.


Lets assume that elements at the same level are equal to one another in combat. We'd have to look at their differences.

If memory serves, her bending skills were more defensive then offensive unless she has a large source. I believe this is important, as Toph is seen as the more combative one. She's been bending the true style for years and might be the youngest master around, and has been regularly competing in bending competitions.
Katara is very skilled, and has been in many battles, but I'd give the pure combat edge to Toph. This with her seismic senses, and little Katara could do to properly take advantage of it, and Toph takes it further.

And this is still working on the assumption that their Bending level and element is equal, whereas I believe Toph is more powerful generally.


Oh yea i forgot definitely did end up mastering sand bending

Originally posted by BloodRain
Toph overcame the loose ground issue by Book 3 when she was skilfully bending sand at the beach.


Lets assume that elements at the same level are equal to one another in combat. We'd have to look at their differences.

If memory serves, her bending skills were more defensive then offensive unless she has a large source. I believe this is important, as Toph is seen as the more combative one. She's been bending the true style for years and might be the youngest master around, and has been regularly competing in bending competitions.
Katara is very skilled, and has been in many battles, but I'd give the pure combat edge to Toph. This with her seismic senses, and little Katara could do to properly take advantage of it, and Toph takes it further.

And this is still working on the assumption that their Bending level and element is equal, whereas I believe Toph is more powerful generally.

I admit I forgot she had mastered sandbending, but I would still contend that mud would be different enough to cause difficulty. I think the setting of this battle is on the beach, though, which means Katara might actually in a worse position than originally perceived. mmm

Does anyone in here think katara can beat king bumi in a fight?

Because i would like to say that toph and king bumi fought and it ended up in a draw that should show how strong toph really is as a fighter

Originally posted by XanatosForever
I admit I forgot she had mastered sandbending, but I would still contend that mud would be different enough to cause difficulty. I think the setting of this battle is on the beach, though, which means Katara might actually in a worse position than originally perceived. mmm

The location is rocky terrain with an ocean nearby. Which means Katara has no way to disrupt Toph's earth sense.

Originally posted by chasedown
Bumi Roku and Ozai's father were bending at a high level at a very old age why dont you think toph can

And bumi was over 100 years old


Also idk if this counts toph and bumi had a fight in the comics to see who was the strongest earth bender in the world but the fight ended up in a draw..... This is a great feat for toph because bumi took retook a whole city occupied by the fire nation by himself
What her skill level would be 70 years later is irrelevant.

Originally posted by KingD19
The location is rocky terrain with an ocean nearby. Which means Katara has no way to disrupt Toph's earth sense.
Nearby as in a couple meters maybe.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Toph overcame the loose ground issue by Book 3 when she was skilfully bending sand at the beach.


Lets assume that elements at the same level are equal to one another in combat. We'd have to look at their differences.

If memory serves, her bending skills were more defensive then offensive unless she has a large source. I believe this is important, as Toph is seen as the more combative one. She's been bending the true style for years and might be the youngest master around, and has been regularly competing in bending competitions.
Katara is very skilled, and has been in many battles, but I'd give the pure combat edge to Toph. This with her seismic senses, and little Katara could do to properly take advantage of it, and Toph takes it further.

And this is still working on the assumption that their Bending level and element is equal, whereas I believe Toph is more powerful generally.
An ocean is a pretty large source. And Katara is a very tactically inclined fighter, she could attack from the ocean, so Toph can't sense her.

Originally posted by King Joker
What her skill level would be 70 years later is irrelevant.

Fine young toph fought king bumi and it ended in a draw. What extremely powerful bender has katara fought one on one

Azula, Zuko, and Hama. May be more, don't remember.

Katara overpowered Hama. And Hama invented Bloodbending, but Katara became better at it than her in a very short amount of time.

Also she beat a mentally unstable Azula, but that was due to several outside factors benefiting her.

She was besting stable Azula in the Book 2 finale, remember? If it wasn't for Zuko intervening... well... who knows?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfTgfmp_PZ8
0:47-1:51

Originally posted by King Joker
Azula, Zuko, and Hama. May be more, don't remember.

Azula was in a weakened mind state there last fight and wasnt focused.zuko said it himself. Other than that azula has gotten the best of katars and the gang way more times than vice versa.


Also you keep using their encounter that was interupted by zuko in book 2 as a evidence staring katara beat azula but the fact is that zuko interuppted the fight whose to say that azula couldnt have gotten out of the hold by shooting fire at katara using the limbs that were free from the hold. You cant use an interrupted fight as an example

She never fought zuko once he became a true master of firebending (dragon training)

Hama was through bloodbending an katara already swore she would never use that fighting style again even going so far as to introduce the idea as making it illegal



King bumi on the other hand retook omashu from the fire nation by himself.... Toph fought him and it ended in a draw thats shows tophs power as a bender

You can't ignore the fact that Katara beat one of the most powerful waterbenders seen in TLA in Hama, and even bloodbent her, despite Hama being the originator and master of the technique.

Originally posted by KingD19
You can't ignore the fact that Katara beat one of the most powerful waterbenders seen in TLA in Hama, and even bloodbent her, despite Hama being the originator and master of the technique.


She beat her using blood bending i acknowledged that already but she also said that she would never use that technique again. This means that she wont be using it in this fight. Also bloodbending is something that she can only use on full moon nights

Originally posted by chasedown
Azula was in a weakened mind state there last fight and wasnt focused.zuko said it himself. Other than that azula has gotten the best of katars and the gang way more times than vice versa.


Also you keep using their encounter that was interupted by zuko in book 2 as a evidence staring katara beat azula but the fact is that zuko interuppted the fight whose to say that azula couldnt have gotten out of the hold by shooting fire at katara using the limbs that were free from the hold. You cant use an interrupted fight as an example

She never fought zuko once he became a true master of firebending (dragon training)

Hama was through bloodbending an katara already swore she would never use that fighting style again even going so far as to introduce the idea as making it illegal



King bumi on the other hand retook omashu from the fire nation by himself.... Toph fought him and it ended in a draw thats shows tophs power as a bender

1. She's never gotten the best of them after the finale of Book 2, when Katara was beating her.

2. I can, and I will. Katara was besting her the entire fight. Katara got her limbs, and was about to slam her on the ground. I'm not saying Katara beat her, since the fight was inconclusive, but during the fight, Katara was winning.

3. Yes, but Zuko was still a very impressive firebender at that point.

4. What's your point?

Originally posted by chasedown
She beat her using blood bending i acknowledged that already but she also said that she would never use that technique again. This means that she wont be using it in this fight. Also bloodbending is something that she can only use on full moon nights I already said no bloodbending anyways.

The point I was making was that she did indeed fight and beat one of the best Waterbenders in the world, and using a technique she herself created and Katara had only recently learned. It speaks of her skill and ingenuity.

Are you responding to me? But, yeah, agreed.

Originally posted by King Joker
1. She's never gotten the best of them after the finale of Book 2, when Katara was beating her.

2. I can, and I will. Katara was besting her the entire fight. Katara got her limbs, and was about to slam her on the ground. I'm not saying Katara beat her, since the fight was inconclusive, but during the fight, Katara was winning.

3. Yes, but Zuko was still a very impressive firebender at that point.

4. What's your point?

1. Are you kidding me azula has been giving them trouble throughout damn near the whole series. Why do you think when fighting her their furst option is always to try and gang up on her. Even when doing that they would fail to beat her many times in the series. Azula gave the avatar trouble that trumps katara unless you think katara is stronger than aang.

2. Also katara only grabbed one arm and one leg. It was still quite possible for azula to bend this gives azula options to get out of it and she is arguably one of the most skilled pure tactic fighters its very possible for her to have gotten out of it. The fight was interuptted. Thats like saying in a boxing match if you get a good hit on someone you automatically are better than them and would wkin the fight.

3. Zuko was extremely weak compared to his eos self the one katara fought was barely top 5 among the noted firebenders in the show.

4. It matters because king bumi is a white lotus member and is stronger than zuko was at any point him a katara fought.i would even say hes stronger than azula and hama. Its just that hamas blood bending would prove a problem for him but considering bumi can bend with just his nose id say he should do fine

Originally posted by chasedown
1. Are you kidding me azula has been giving them trouble throughout damn near the whole series. Why do you think when fighting her their furst option is always to try and gang up on her. Even when doing that they would fail to beat her many times in the series. Azula gave the avatar trouble that trumps katara unless you think katara is stronger than aang.

2. Also katara only grabbed one arm and one leg. It was still quite possible for azula to bend this gives azula options to get out of it and she is arguably one of the most skilled pure tactic fighters its very possible for her to have gotten out of it. The fight was interuptted. Thats like saying in a boxing match if you get a good hit on someone you automatically are better than them and would wkin the fight.

3. Zuko was extremely weak compared to his eos self the one katara fought was barely top 5 among the noted firebenders in the show.

4. It matters because king bumi is a white lotus member and is stronger than zuko was at any point him a katara fought.i would even say hes stronger than azula and hama. Its just that hamas blood bending would prove a problem for him but considering bumi can bend with just his nose id say he should do fine

1. When has Azula outright bested them post-Book2?

2. You're ridiculous. If Azula was going to escape she would've. Katara was like a millisecond away from smashing her. Yes, it was interrupted, but Katara was probably about to knock Azula out with that slam, or disable her. Not to mention Katara was beating her the entire fight.

3. After a couple days and/or weeks of training Katara was besting him. Zuko was very powerful at that time. Even if he wasn't at his peak.

4. An earthbender - earthbender fight is far different than a earthbender - waterbender fight.

Originally posted by King Joker
1. When has Azula outright bested them post-Book2?

2. You're ridiculous. If Azula was going to escape she would've. Katara was like a millisecond away from smashing her. Yes, it was interrupted, but Katara was probably about to knock Azula out with that slam, or disable her. Not to mention Katara was beating her the entire fight.

3. After a couple days and/or weeks of training Katara was besting him. Zuko was very powerful at that time. Even if he wasn't at his peak.

4. An earthbender - earthbender fight is far different than a earthbender - waterbender fight.




So if someone slams you on the ground that automatically means they won a fight?



Look at how many times ppl have been thrown on the ground both in real life and anime/cartoon and got up and won the fight.

The fact of the matter is that it was interrupted so azula wasn't given a chance a to counter so we dont know the end result anyway. If zuko didnt interrupt it id concede but he didnt so that fact can be argued its not ridiculous just fact. One good hit or takedown doesnt automatically mean you won.

It's not just that, but Katara was besting her before that too. That plus her about to possibly KO/incapacitate her leads to the conclusion that Katara > Azula.

Originally posted by King Joker
It's not just that, but Katara was besting her before that too. That plus her about to possibly KO/incapacitate her leads to the conclusion that Katara > Azula.

Again the fight was interrupted so theres no way of knowing how azula would have reacted. Yes its possible katara could have beat her but its also possible that azula could have countered.

If katara is better than azula why was she running away from azula the whole time the two fought the last time. If azula was in her right mind and focusing she would have never fell for kataras ice trap. And even so katara was literrally a second or two away from death had she not reacted quickly. Katara barely won a two on one fight against a wild non focused azula imagine if the two were to duel one on one against a focused azula katara would lose.

Remember zuko himself stated that they won that fight because of azulas mindstate

Originally posted by chasedown
Again the fight was interrupted so theres no way how azula would have reacted. Yes its possible katara could have beat her but its also possible that azula could have countered.

If katara is better than azula why was she running away from azula the whole time the two fought the last time. If azula was in her right mind and focusing she would have never fell for kataras ice trap. And even so katara was literrally a second or two away from death had she not reacted quickly. Katara barely won a two on one fight against a wild non focused azula imagine if the two were to duel one on one against a focused azula katara would lose.

Remember zuko himself stated that they won that fight because of azulas mindstate
*sigh* WHEN AZULA WAS IN HER RIGHT MIND KATARA WAS WINNING! JESUS CHRIST, IT'S NOT THAT HARD TO UNDERSTAND! IT'S NOT POSSIBLE AZULA COULD'VE COUNTERED BECAUSE SHE WAS LITERALLY LIKE A ****ING MILISECOND AWAY FROM SMASHING HER! THERE'S LITERALLY NO WAY SHE COULD'VE COUNTERED! AZULA AND KATARA ALREADY FOUGHT (WHEN AZULA WAS IN THE PERFECT MINDSET) AND KATARA WAS WINNING! PERIOD!

Azula was a crazy buffoon shooting lighting everywhere, Katara had no choice but to run.

Originally posted by King Joker
*sigh* WHEN AZULA WAS IN HER RIGHT MIND KATARA WAS WINNING! JESUS CHRIST, IT'S NOT THAT HARD TO UNDERSTAND! IT'S NOT POSSIBLE AZULA COULD'VE COUNTERED BECAUSE SHE WAS LITERALLY LIKE A ****ING MILISECOND AWAY FROM SMASHING HER! THERE'S LITERALLY NO WAY SHE COULD'VE COUNTERED! AZULA AND KATARA ALREADY FOUGHT (WHEN AZULA WAS IN THE PERFECT MINDSET) AND KATARA WAS WINNING! PERIOD!

Again thats like me picking you up and someone stopping me and then ppl say i won the fight

No. It's like you besting me the entire fight and when you're about to do the knock out punch some intervenes. I don't think I can simplify it for you anymore. It's so obvious what the deal is.

Originally posted by King Joker
No. It's like you besting me the entire fight and when you're about to do the knock out punch some intervenes. I don't think I can simplify it for you anymore. It's so obvious what the deal is.

Again azula wasnt given a chance to counter she had free limbs and can even bend from her mouth its possible she could have had options to break free or counter. Azula is a very intelligent individual. We dont even know what type of manuver katara was about to do either because just because she slightly lifted azula off the ground doesnt mean she was about to slam her katara could do many things to her in that position. Katara just slamming her is also an option but we dont know how strong she would have slammed her would azula be knocked out? Would she not? Who knows All of these things could have happened and aare possible to have occured but it was left up to speculation. wHy? BECAUSE ZUKO INTERVENED

That same fight azul overwhelmed the avatar and forced him to decide in order to win he had to use the avatar state. Are you saying that katara is stronger than the aang because she grabbed azula? Not killed not slammed not even beaten till unable to fight that makes katara better than aang

Even so her own brother zuko who knows katara's abilities pretty well said that because azula wasnt in the right mind state that now had a chance to beat her in a fight. It was also stated in the series before the last fight that azula couldnt be beaten alone. This is fact you cant go against what a credible source like ptince zuko

Originally posted by chasedown
Again azula wasnt given a chance to counter she had free limbs and can even bend from her mouth its possible she could have had options to break free or counter. Azula is a very intelligent individual. We dont even know what type of manuver katara was about to do either because just because she slightly lifted azula off the ground doesnt mean she was about to slam her katara could do many things to her in that position. Katara just slamming her is also an option but we dont know how strong she would have slammed her would azula be knocked out? Would she not? Who knows All of these things could have happened and aare possible to have occured but it was left up to speculation. wHy? BECAUSE ZUKO INTERVENED

That same fight azul overwhelmed the avatar and forced him to decide in order to win he had to use the avatar state. Are you saying that katara is stronger than the aang because she grabbed azula? Not killed not slammed not even beaten till unable to fight that makes katara better than aang

Even so her own brother zuko who knows katara's abilities pretty well said that because azula wasnt in the right mind state that now had a chance to beat her in a fight. It was also stated in the series before the last fight that azula couldnt be beaten alone. This is fact you cant go against what a credible source like ptince zuko

How many times do I have to repeat myself so that you get it? Are you that dumb? Again, Azula literally couldn't do anything, she was even screaming when it was happening, and it was just about to happen before Zuko intervened. How the **** could Azula even hope to win after that? She was losing the ENTIRE fight! And, yes, we do know what Katara was going to do. Because before Zuko intervened Katara was bringing her arms down. Hell, maybe Katara wouldn't have just slammed her! Maybe she would ragdoll her and slam her all over the room! Azula was going to lose, and was losing.

I'm really starting to think you're retarded. I think you're forgetting that there were DOZENS OF DAI LI THERE! SURROUNDING HIM! ARE YOU SERIOUS?!

No. They were talking about how he couldn't beat her. Not to mention it was SOZINS COMET, WHERE FIREBENDERS POWERE INCREASES TREMENDOUSLY! SO OF ****ING COURSE KATARA PROBABLY WASN'T ABLE TO BEAT HER AT THAT TIME!

Originally posted by King Joker
How many times do I have to repeat myself so that you get it? Are you that dumb? Again, Azula literally couldn't do anything, she was even screaming when it was happening, and it was just about to happen before Zuko intervened. How the **** could Azula even hope to win after that? She was losing the ENTIRE fight! And, yes, we do know what Katara was going to do. Because before Zuko intervened Katara was bringing her arms down. Hell, maybe Katara wouldn't have just slammed her! Maybe she would ragdoll her and slam her all over the room! Azula was going to lose, and was losing.

I'm really starting to think you're retarded. I think you're forgetting that there were DOZENS OF DAI LI THERE! SURROUNDING HIM! ARE YOU SERIOUS?!

No. They were talking about how he couldn't beat her. Not to mention it was SOZINS COMET, WHERE FIREBENDERS POWERE INCREASES TREMENDOUSLY! SO OF ****ING COURSE KATARA PROBABLY WASN'T ABLE TO BEAT HER AT THAT TIME!



How many times in a fight in both real life, avatar and other anime have you seen someone get thrown and get up still able to fight? Lemme answer that for you tons.

And your telling me that because she screamed that automatically equals a loss.

Idk why your insulting me everything i said in my last post makes percect logical sense.

But in the end All insulting someone in a debate does is lower your credibility and arguement value so continue

If only Katara had a rematch with Pakku to determine who was the best waterbending master. Sadly no such even has happened.

Originally posted by chasedown
How many times in a fight in both real life, avatar and other anime have you seen someone get thrown and get up still able to fight? Lemme answer that for you tons.

And your telling me that because she screamed that automatically equals a loss.

Idk why your insulting me everything i said in my last post makes percect logical sense.

But in the end All insulting someone in a debate does is lower your credibility and arguement value so continue

What would happen in other anime, or real life, is irrelevant. The point is, Katara was beating her.

No.

It really doesn't.

Except my arguments make sense, and yours do not.

Originally posted by King Joker
What would happen in other anime, or real life, is irrelevant. The point is, Katara was beating her.

No.

It really doesn't.

Except my arguments make sense, and yours do not.

It isnt irrelevant because weve seen characters in avatar take significant amounts of damage from one another multiple times within the series. And theres no telling and much damage azula would have took or if she would have countered because zuko interrupted.

Azula wasnt even using her lightning against her.


What part of there were still many possible outcomes of the fight before zuko interrupted it doesn't make sense.

Just because katara grabbed her doesnt automatically equate to a win for her.

Originally posted by chasedown
It isnt irrelevant because weve seen characters in avatar take significant amounts of damage from one another multiple times within the series. And theres no telling and much damage azula would have took or if she would have countered because zuko interrupted.

Azula wasnt even using her lightning against her.


What part of there were still many possible outcomes of the fight before zuko interrupted it doesn't make sense.

Just because katara grabbed her doesnt automatically equate to a win for her.
It's fair to assume Katara would've eventually won, since she was winning the whole fight anyways. This is really annoying, so I hope this time it'll go through your thick skull. KATARA WAS 1 SECOND AWAY FROM SMASHING HER! IT'S NOT PHYSICALLY POSSIBLE FOR HER TO COUNTER, AND IF IT WAS, WHY DIDN'T AZULA COUNTER RIGHT OFF THE BAT?!

So? It still proves Katara > Azula bending wise. And Katara can dodge lightning.

Because Katara was winning the entire time. At NO point during the fight was Azula winning. How can you possibly think Azula would've won if she was losing the whole time and was about to receive a devastating blow from Katara?

She was winning the entire time and was about to smash her to the ground. Katara didn't WIN, but she was WINNING, and was probably about to win though with that slam that was about to happen. If someone is winning the entire fight and was about to do a big, devastating blow, how can you think Azula > Katara?

I've refuted all your points, please honorably concede. Because this is irritating to repeat the same things to you constantly.

Originally posted by King Joker
I've refuted all your points, please honorably concede. Because this is irritating to repeat the same things to you constantly.


The exchange was so short how can you decide a winner from just two moves. If zuko didnt intervene and katara totally incapacitated her then i would concede. The fact of the matter is that the fight wasnt concluded just because someone grabs you and picks you up doesnt mean you cant fight back or automatically lose

Azula still had two free limbs and a mouth which all are outlets for firebending it was very possible for her to make a counter attempt unless your saying that fire benders cant bend out of one arm,leg or their mouths.

Originally posted by chasedown
The exchange was so short how can you decide a winner from just two moves. If zuko didnt intervene and katara totally incapacitated her then i would concede. The fact of the matter is that the fight wasnt concluded just because someone grabs you and picks you up doesnt mean you cant fight back or automatically lose

Azula still had two free limbs and a mouth which all are outlets for firebending it was very possible for her to make a counter attempt unless your saying that fire benders cant bend out of one arm,leg or their mouths.

I can decide the winner because we don't see Azula winning, all we see is Katara winning. Katara hits her with water, and then Katara overwhelms Azula's fire with her water grabbing both her limbs. You can see when Katara lifts her, Azula's leg is straight down, so her countering with her leg is out of the question. And, Azula wouldn't be able to counter with her arm either, there's no time. And, the only time we see Azula firebending from her mouth, is when she was EXTREMLEY pissed off. So it really wouldn't have come into play here.

The fact of the matter is Katara was winning the entire fight. There's nothing in that fight to assume Azula > Katara. Honorably concede. My evidence is sound and cohesive. This is a futile argument, because it seems to me your opinion can't be changed no matter what.

If shes so much greater than azula as you say How come any other time azula encountered the gang katara wasnt able to just capture or her or incapacitate her.

Remember this is the same azula who fought toph, katara,aang and zuko at the same time and was able to hold them at bay for quite some time. Even tho it was earlier in the book

Originally posted by chasedown
If shes so much greater than azula as you say How come any other time azula encountered the gang katara wasnt able to just capture or her or incapacitate her.

Remember this is the same azula who fought toph, katara,aang and zuko at the same time and was able to hold them at bay for quite some time. Even tho it was earlier in the book

No, I only think Katara is better than her by a slim margin.

Probably because it's her first encounter with Azula. And Azula was only holding them back for a very short while so that she could run away.

Not to mention they were all severely sleep deprived.

Id say toph wins because she fought and got a draw with king bumi.

And i think king bumi can beat katara

I mean i def dont think it would be a stomp but yea in the end toph wins for being the more experienced, prolific and inventive fighter.

Well, again, I think Katara would win in an extremely hard fight.

Originally posted by King Joker
Well, again, I think Katara would win in an extremely hard fight.


If katara could beat bumi i might agree with you but thats an extremely hard case to make

I don't think she could beat Bumi either. But a waterbender vs. earthbender is vastly different than earthbender vs. earthbender.

Originally posted by King Joker
I don't think she could beat Bumi either. But a waterbender vs. earthbender is vastly different than earthbender vs. earthbender.

It doesnt matter


Toph fought bumi and it was a draw.... This means that toph is at least equal to or greater than bumi in terms of skill a an earth bender

If you dont think katara can bumi then she cant beat toph either

Originally posted by yungz22
It doesnt matter


Toph fought bumi and it was a draw.... This means that toph is at least equal to or greater than bumi in terms of skill a an earth bender

If you dont think katara can bumi then she cant beat toph either
Ummm, it does matter... like a lot. Toph has a lot of experience fighting earthbenders, and her seismic sense gives her a huge advantage against earthbending opponents. (It still gives her an advantage against any opponent, but not as much against non-earthbenders.)

And you cant just say Toph = Bumi, so Toph > Katara. It doesn't work like that. It's how the opponents skills, strengths, weakness', etc. play off each other.

Originally posted by King Joker
Ummm, it does matter... like a lot. Toph has a lot of experience fighting earthbenders, and her seismic sense gives her a huge advantage against earthbending opponents. (It still gives her an advantage against any opponent, but not as much against non-earthbenders.)

And you cant just say Toph = Bumi, so Toph > Katara. It doesn't work like that. It's how the opponents skills, strengths, weakness', etc. play off each other.



You said yourself bumi would beat katara.

That means toph would beat katara too.

A draw means the two were evenly matched and thats what happened with bumi and toph.

You memtioning her "advantage" over bumi only bolsters the idea that katara would lose.

Originally posted by yungz22
You said yourself bumi would beat katara.

That means toph would beat katara too.

A draw means the two were evenly matched and thats what happened with bumi and toph.

You memtioning her "advantage" over bumi only bolsters the idea that katara would lose.
It doesn't mean that at all. A>B>C logic doesn't work in this case.

No. Toph has MAJOR advantages against earthbending opponents, and she also has far more experience against them as well. In this case with Katara, Katara can try and negate Toph's seismic sense, by using the ocean, so Toph can't sense her.

Originally posted by King Joker
It doesn't mean that at all. A>B>C logic doesn't work in this case.

No. Toph has MAJOR advantages against earthbending opponents, and she also has far more experience against them as well. In this case with Katara, Katara can try and negate Toph's seismic sense, by using the ocean, so Toph can't sense her.


Ok so what your saying is toph is better than bumi.

And katara is not better than bumi

But katara can beat toph.

That makes zero sense whatsoever.

Originally posted by yungz22
Ok so what your saying is toph is better than bumi.

And katara is not better than bumi

But katara can beat toph.

That makes zero sense whatsoever.
No. I said she has advantages against earthbenders.

Okay?

In this circumstance.

How?

Originally posted by King Joker
It doesn't mean that at all. A>B>C logic doesn't work in this case.

No. Toph has MAJOR advantages against earthbending opponents, and she also has far more experience against them as well. In this case with Katara, Katara can try and negate Toph's seismic sense, by using the ocean, so Toph can't sense her.

Originally posted by King Joker
No. I said she has advantages against earthbenders.

Okay?

In this circumstance.

How?



That advantage applys to water benders too unless both are fighting on water which isnt the case..... You alo have to remember that toph can still sense when things are coming toward whether it be air,water or fire. Just because she cant see doesnt mean katara would win especially if toph is strong enough to beat or tie with King Bumi one of the worlds greatest fighters

If it was that easy to beat toph because she was blind we would have seen her defeated along time ago.

Originally posted by yungz22
That advantage applys to water benders too unless both are fighting on water which isnt the case..... You alo have to remember that toph can still sense when things are coming toward whether it be air,water or fire. Just because she cant see doesnt mean katara would win especially if toph is strong enough to beat or tie with King Bumi one of the worlds greatest fighters

If it was that easy to beat toph because she was blind we would have seen her defeated along time ago.
I know it can apply to other benders, just that the advantage wouldn't be as large. And with there being an ocean nearby in this fight, Katara can attack from the ocean, so Toph wouldn't be able to see her. Toph can see the person when they're on the ground, and know their moves (like what they're throwing at them, earth, fire, water) by how they move, react, etc. But if Katara is attacking via the ocean, Toph has no way to effectively counterattack.

In actuality the earth sense isnt even an advantage if you think about it gives the same amount of awareness that someone with eyesight would have

Well, it would probably make Toph more connected to the Earth, and "see" things others cant. So no one could really sneak up on her, or bend something behind her. Anyways, her blindness would be a disadvantage if Katara would attack via the ocean, which she would.

Originally posted by King Joker
Well, it would probably make Toph more connected to the Earth, and "see" things others cant. So no one could really sneak up on her, or bend something behind her. Anyways, her blindness would be a disadvantage if Katara would attack via the ocean, which she would.


There are no sneak attacks in a one one one fight lol..... Any way earth bending can be just as effective defensively as it is offensively. Toph could easily wield rock armor as aang has done before.

Or she could create a wall

Theres also sand at the bottom of the ocean she could bring up and harden since she mastered sand bending as well

Weve also seen her raise the earth from the bottom of bodies of water

Another fact of the matter is that toph is the more experienced fighter she has been fighting for way longer than katara. She also learned bending from the original earth benders the badger moles. This makes her a more powerful bender by alot.

As seen with zuko,aang, and wan learning bending from the original bender animals increases your power as a bender ten fold.

http://youtu.be/w_Ko7VusR04

Originally posted by yungz22
There are no sneak attacks in a one one one fight lol..... Any way earth bending can be just as effective defensively as it is offensively. Toph could easily wield rock armor as aang has done before.

Or she could create a wall

Theres also sand at the bottom of the ocean she could bring up and harden since she mastered sand bending as well

Weve also seen her raise the earth from the bottom of bodies of water

Another fact of the matter is that toph is the more experienced fighter she has been fighting for way longer than katara. She also learned bending from the original earth benders the badger moles. This makes her a more powerful bender by alot.

As seen with zuko,aang, and wan learning bending from the original bender animals increases your power as a bender ten fold.

I was talking about in general. If Toph was to use earthbending defensively, she still couldn't mount a counterattack. And water can cut through rock, as seen when Hama sliced a rock in pieces. Katara > Hama, so Katara would be able to do that as well.

Again, she still wouldn't be able to mount a counterattack.

Good point, but, when has she hardened sand into rock? And even if she could, it's not like she would be able to see where Katara is anyways.

Yes, but all that experience fighting was with earthbenders. And I don't really think learning from the originals would make you more powerful, but rather have a better understanding and knowledge.

So, basically, it seems like Toph would be on the defensive in this fight. Toph wouldn't be able to hit Katara, but Katara could hit her. Or hit whatever structure Toph makes to protect herself. It really comes down to whether or not Katara could break Toph's earth defense. We've seen Hama slice through rock, and Katara is superior to Hama, so Katara would definitely has the ability to slice through rock.

Toph hardened the sand when she created the replica of ba sing se

Again toph can raise earth from the bottom of the water, create extremely large walls of rock

Based on what she displayed with the wall of rock she should be able to even create a sand tsunami like gaara would.

Toph has shown more power than katara has barring bloodbending.

Originally posted by yungz22
Toph hardened the sand when she created the replica of ba sing se

Again toph can raise earth from the bottom of the water, create extremely large walls of rock

Based on what she displayed with the wall of rock she should be able to even create a sand tsunami like gaara would.

Toph has shown more power than katara has barring bloodbending.

Not hard enough to be stood on or anything. It just looked like she molded the sand.

Are you referring to the part where they were crossing the Serpent's Pass? Where they were all underwater?

Wall of rock?

I might agree Toph is a better earthbender than Katara is a waterbender, but it's all how their skills play off each other.

Watch the video and youll the many different immense scales of her bending

I'm under no illusions Toph is a fantastic bender.

Originally posted by King Joker
I'm under no illusions Toph is a fantastic bender.


Katara hasnt shown the same amount of power and control that toph has.


Throughout the whole entire avatar series weve seen water benders that were better than katara examples....pakku, Korra,Amon,tarlok, unolaq, eska and desna, korra(waterbending only) have shown more power than katara

Bloodbending proves she has a significant amount of control. And she utterly stomped all of Pakku's students after a couple days to a week of training. She was beating Azula in Book 2 as well. She is extremely powerful! She is probably the second best, if not the best waterbender of her time. Toph is better at her bending than Katara is with hers, but as I've stated numerous times, it's all how their skills and abilities play off each other. Katara can attack and defend while on the ocean, but Toph can only defend. She can't counterattack.

Okay? That doesn't mean that Katara isn't extremely powerful waterbender. She's a freakin' prodigy!

Like, seriously, bloodbending the creator of bloodbending is extremely impressive. Hama spent years perfecting bloodbending, and has decades of experience with it. Katara bloodbended the creator with almost no knowledge of it, and around a year of legit waterbending experience. Hama was the last waterbender standing when the Southern Raiders invaded the Southern Water Tribe. That speaks for Hama's extreme skill and mastery of waterbending. Katara had a week of official waterbending training, and bested Hama. Katara is extremely powerful, and not to be underestimated.

Originally posted by yungz22
Katara hasnt shown the same amount of power and control that toph has.


Throughout the whole entire avatar series weve seen water benders that were better than katara examples....pakku, Korra,Amon,tarlok, unolaq, eska and desna, korra(waterbending only) have shown more power than katara

I'd have to disagree with you on eska and desna, those two didn't show anything that would warrant them above the swamp peeps. Also we show probably limit this to TLA feats so both Toph and Katara have fair standing.

With that said Toph tied against the best Earth bender in the world. That along with the fact that Earth is generally more convenient to bend even if this take place near an ocean, Toph takes this.

How could Toph possibly win if Katara is on the ocean? She can't see her on the ocean! Ahhhhgggghhh!!

Originally posted by King Joker
Bloodbending proves she has a significant amount of control. And she utterly stomped all of Pakku's students after a couple days to a week of training. She was beating Azula in Book 2 as well. She is extremely powerful! She is probably the second best, if not the best waterbender of her time. Toph is better at her bending than Katara is with hers, but as I've stated numerous times, it's all how their skills and abilities play off each other. Katara can attack and defend while on the ocean, but Toph can only defend. She can't counterattack.

Okay? That doesn't mean that Katara isn't extremely powerful waterbender. She's a freakin' prodigy!


The azula thing could also be attributted to fire being weak against water more so than katara being better than her.


So what katara gonna do just sit out there in the ocean how is she gonna beat toph like that when toph could just put up walls. She also has the rock armor. Attacking toph long distance isnt gonna work. Earth is the most defensive element of them all. Bunkering down would be a problem for toph. She has litterally created walls that took up the side of a mountain



Shes still gonna know if water is coming towards her just like how she knew where those flying bugs were at.

Originally posted by yungz22
The azula thing could also be attributted to fire being weak against water more so than katara being better than her.


So what katara gonna do just sit out there in the ocean how is she gonna beat toph like that when toph could just put up walls.

Shes still gonna know if water is coming towards her just like how she was attacking those flying bugs

How is fire weak against water anymore than water is weak against fire?

I don't know. But what I do know is that there is no chance for Toph to beat Katara if she is on the ocean.

I think you forget Katara was telling Toph where to aim...

Originally posted by King Joker
How is fire weak against water anymore than water is weak against fire?

I don't know. But what I do know is that there is no chance for Toph to beat Katara if she is on the ocean.

I think you forget Katara was telling Toph where to aim...

Do you not use water to put out fire.

Like i said in my earlier posts earth is the most defensive element of them all. Bunkering down is not a problem for her as she has created immense walls that take up mountain sides.

Originally posted by yungz22
Do you not use water to put out fire.

Like i said in my earlier posts earth is the most defensive element of them all. Bunkering down is not a problem for her as she has created immense walls that take up mountain sides.
Fire can evaporate water.

Sure. But again, Toph can't counterattack. I think Katara could possibly penetrate rock with ice daggers, or possibly cut down parts of Toph's rock wall. But honestly, I doubt Toph couldn't recover from that or make more walls. Now that I think about it neither of them could really strike each other. But if anyone could have the chance it would be Katara.

Originally posted by King Joker
Fire can evaporate water.

Sure. But again, Toph can't counterattack. I think Katara could possibly penetrate rock with ice daggers, or possibly cut down parts of Toph's rock wall. But honestly, I doubt Toph couldn't recover from that or make more walls. Now that I think about it neither of them could really strike each other. But if anyone could have the chance it would be Katara.


You think katara would have chance just because toph is blind which makes no sense because if that was the case she would be easily defeated..... Sitting out in the ocean isnt going to beat toph thats a ridiculous notion to make. She literally is the one of the top 2 earth benders of all time it wouldnt work like that.

Especially since you yourself said katara cant beat bumi. And toph tied with him.

Originally posted by yungz22
You think katara would have chance just because toph is blind which makes no sense because if that was the case she would be easily defeated..... Sitting out in the ocean isnt going to beat toph thats a ridiculous notion to make. She literally is the one of the top 2 earth benders of all time it wouldnt work like that.

Especially since you yourself said katara cant beat bumi.
Enlighten me how you possibly think Toph can hit Katara when Katara isn't on the ****ing ground.

The reason why I think Bumi could beat Katara is because he can actually counterattack while Katara is on the ocean, because he can see. Toph can't see her opponent if they're not on earth.

Originally posted by King Joker
The reason why I think Bumi could beat Katara is because he can actually counterattack while Katara is on the ocean, because he can see. Toph can't see her opponent if they're not on earth.

She could lower the sea level or bring earth up from the bottom of the sea. Or conrol the sand like garra and throw a sand tsunami at katara. That would significantly affect the movement of the water and turn them into rough waters. That would make it harder for katara to move freely.


Honestly if katara was to sit out in the ocean that would put toph on the defensive. You said yourself that katara might not be able to break through it. This leaves katara only one option and that to come and land and fight toph.
That is where she would lose.

Originally posted by yungz22
She could lower the sea level or bring earth up from the bottom of the sea. Or conrol the sand like garra and throw a sand tsunami at katara. That would significantly affect the movement of the water and turn them into rough waters. That would make it harder for katara to move freely.


Honestly if katara was to sit out in the ocean that would put toph on the defensive. You said yourself that katara might not be able to break through it. This leaves katara only one option and that to come and land and fight toph.
That is where she would lose.

You do know how big the ocean is, right? Toph is powerful, but she isn't that powerful. And she hasn't shown enough mastery with sandbending for me to think she could send sand tsunami's.

Lol. Katara isn't retarded. If she can't break through it in the ocean she wouldn't try to do it on land. That makes no sense.

Originally posted by King Joker
You do know how big the ocean is, right? Toph is powerful, but she isn't that powerful. And she hasn't shown enough mastery with sandbending for me to think she could send sand tsunami's.

Lol. Katara isn't retarded. If she can't break through it in the ocean she wouldn't try to do it on land. That makes no sense.

You act as if katara can dump a whole ocean on toph.

It makes perfect sense if you cant beat someone from long distance your only option is to attack close range.

Originally posted by yungz22
You act as if katara can dump a whole ocean on toph.

It makes perfect sense if you cant beat someone from long distance your only option is to attack close range.

No.

It doesn't make "perfect sense." It makes the exact opposite of sense. If Katara can't break through the rock from the ocean, how would getting closer make a difference? Especially since once she gets on land Toph could attack. Katara is very smart during combat, she wouldn't go on land, lol.

Originally posted by King Joker
No.

It doesn't make "perfect sense." It makes the exact opposite of sense. If Katara can't break through the rock from the ocean, how would getting closer make a difference? Especially since once she gets on land Toph could attack. Katara is very smart during combat, she wouldn't go on land, lol.

It does make sense how many anime fights have you watched where a character decided that close combat is the only option.

Sasuke, naruto and rock lee vs gaara.
Neji vs. kidomaru
Sasuke and naruto vs haku

Hei, kurama vs shigure
Hei vs sniper

Bit cloud vs the gun sniper


Ichigo vs byakuya
Ichigo vs renji.
Ichigo vs. gin

Lockon stratus vs the new innovator mobile suits
Setsuna f seiei final battle in season 1

And countless other fights i failed to mention of the top of my head


Well then it wouldnt be s fight if you expect katara to just sit out in an ocean while toph continuously creates walls and domes of earth to instinctively defend from what she cant see.

Also if toph can create stone wall that spread across a mountain side how is it farfetched to say she can send a wave of sand at someone

Originally posted by yungz22
It does make sense how many anime fights have you watched where a character decided that close combat is the only option


Well then it wouldnt be s fight if you expect katara to just sit out in an ocean while toph continuously creates walls and domes of earth to instinctively defend from what she cant see.

How stupid do you think Katara is? She'd have less of a chance to win if she decided to go on the ground! And she would know that! And Katara won't just be sitting out in the ocean. She's going to barrage Toph with waves, hard streams of water, ice, etc. Katara has a better chance of winning this than Toph. Period.

You're ridiculous to assume that Katara would go on land. That's just plain stupid.

Originally posted by King Joker
How stupid do you think Katara is? She'd have less of a chance to win if she decided to go on the ground! And she would know that! And Katara won't just be sitting out in the ocean. She's going to barrage Toph with waves, hard streams of water, ice, etc. Katara has a better chance of winning this than Toph. Period.

Can you show me an instance where ice or water broke a stone wall in the show.

All the ice katara has used never was used t"strong enough to break earth from what i can remember but if you can show me ill acknowledge it.

Look at the examples above in my last post plenty of characters in other shows have done the same and they are just as smart if not smarter than her.


Why is it impossible for katara to fight on a beach the water would still be close enough for her to bend.

All those characters decided close combat was the only option to win why cant katara do the same

Originally posted by yungz22
Can you show me an instance where ice or water broke a stone wall in the show.

All the ice katara has used never was used t"strong enough to break earth from what i can remember but if you can show me ill acknowledge it.

Look at the examples above in my last post plenty of characters in other shows have done the same and they are just as smart if not smarter than her.


Why is it impossible for katara to fight on a beach the water would still be close enough for her to bend.

A stone wall? No. But with persistence I don't see why not. Especially since we know water can slice stone in multiple pieces.

Hama sliced stone in like three pieces with ease. And we all know Katara > Hama.

If it was this situation where their opponent can only see when they are on the ground, and they were on the ocean, I doubt they're so stupid as to go on land.

Because Toph could see her, and then Katara would lose. I've already stated this multiple times. The only was I can see Katara winning is via the ocean, and Katara is intelligent enough to recognize the advantage the ocean would give her, and the disadvantage it would give Toph.

Originally posted by yungz22
All those characters decided close combat was the only option to win why cant katara do the same
BECAUSE CLOSE COMBAT ISN'T THE ONLY OPTION! OMFG!

Originally posted by King Joker
BECAUSE CLOSE COMBAT ISN'T THE ONLY OPTION! OMFG!


Dude think about it would take katara a while to break through ONE wall. Imagine how long it would take her to get to toph if she were to keep erecting new walls one after another.

Close combat is kataras only option to win. If she sits out in the ocean there she would be attacking wall after wall until she gets tired. It would literally be like talking to the wall. she wouldnt be getting anywhere by attacking from the ocean

Originally posted by King Joker
A stone wall? No. But with persistence I don't see why not. Especially since we know water can slice stone in multiple pieces.

Hama sliced stone in like three pieces with ease. And we all know Katara > Hama.

If it was this situation where their opponent can only see when they are on the ground, and they were on the ocean, I doubt they're so stupid as to go on land.

Because Toph could see her, and then Katara would lose. I've already stated this multiple times. The only was I can see Katara winning is via the ocean, and Katara is intelligent enough to recognize the advantage the ocean would give her, and the disadvantage it would give Toph.

Katara beat hama through bloodbending not water bending from what i remember.

Originally posted by yungz22
Dude think about it would take katara a while to break through ONE wall. Imagine how long it would take her to get to toph if she were to keep erecting new walls one after another.

Close combat is kataras only option to win. If she sits out in the ocean there she would be attacking wall after wall until she gets tired. It would literally be like talking to the wall. she wouldnt be getting anywhere by attacking from the ocean
No. Close combat is suicide. I'm saying, that the only way Katara could win, is via the ocean. Once Katara lands on the ground, she'll eventually lose.

Originally posted by yungz22
Katara beat hama through bloodbending not water bending from what i remember.
She beat Hama with waterbending, and Hama resulted to bloodbending Aang and Sokka. Katara is superior to Hama in every way.

The way I see it, is that Toph can't win because Katara would go into the ocean. Thus having no way to attack. So if anyone has a chance of winning, it'd be Katara.

Originally posted by King Joker
The way I see it, is that Toph can't win because Katara would go into the ocean. Thus having no way to attack. So if anyone has a chance of winning, it'd be Katara.


Katara would be attacking to no avail she wouldnt get anywhere. If anything it would be a stalemate. If she were to fight long distance.