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Alright this time Thanos has a couple things on his side, 1. This time he has the orb he had when he fought Tyrant 2. He has the team of heralds that fought Tyrant before him and 3. If two or three doesn't help enough to atleast make it a better fight then it will be Current Thanos in the fight this time.

Odin still

Odin wins

Odin still wins. And the orb he had when he fought Tyrant contained the left over power of Morg, so I have no idea why you think it would help.

Still Odin.

Well Morg and Terrax fought each other when others were fighting Tyrant In this fight Morg and Terrax would be helping Thanos fight Odin. It would be better fight this time.

Originally posted by golem370
Well Morg and Terrax fought each other when others were fighting Tyrant In this fight Morg and Terrax would be helping Thanos fight Odin. It would be better fight this time.


Not really. Odin one-shots them.

When you say that fight... Wasn't that when all of the heralds showed up?

Is surfer morg terrax air walker fire lord nova and also that Ganymede person?

Plus thanos who would be amped by having morgs power cosmic amped to his own...

I'm not so sure I'd put a win for Odin so quickly with like six heralds against him on top of thanos...

Odin can one-shot heralds, it's not like they add much.

Current Thanos plus the Orb Beta Ray Bill, Gladiator, Surfer, Morg, Terrax, Ganymede, & Jack of Hearts

All father ftw

Thanos puts up a better fight but still loses.

Thanos wasn't amped in his fight with Tyrant. The orb he used just contained the left over power of Morg, a herald level being, so I'm not sure why anyone would think it made any significant contribution.

Odin ftw.

This makes it more of a fight, but in the original Odin v Thanos we saw how effective heralds like Surfer were.

Thanos makes it even more difficult with these stips but Odin still wins in the end.

Originally posted by Cosmicus
Thanos wasn't amped in his fight with Tyrant. The orb he used just contained the left over power of Morg, a herald level being, so I'm not sure why anyone would think it made any significant contribution.


Where was this stated?

Originally posted by Cosmicus
Thanos wasn't amped in his fight with Tyrant. The orb he used just contained the left over power of Morg, a herald level being, so I'm not sure why anyone would think it made any significant contribution.
Despite the fact that 3 issues prior Thanos specifically sought out Terrax because he had information on Tyrant. Terrax stated outright that the Orbs were Tyrant's greatest asset as well as his greatest liability if they were used against him.

The orb didn't have Morgs energies in, Tyrant restored Morgs power do he could fight Terrax

Odin.

Originally posted by zopzop
Despite the fact that 3 issues prior Thanos specifically sought out Terrax because he had information on Tyrant. Terrax stated outright that the Orbs were Tyrant's greatest asset as well as his greatest liability if they were used against him.


It was also stated by a more credible source that Tyrant had no weaknesses. And the orb contained the left over power of a herald level being, the same level of characters Tyrant stomped with ease. I don't know why one would think it would do much against him.

I'm going off memory here so... Iirc thanos was getting beat down by tyrant. Grabs the orb which allows him to even the field and then escape...

That is insignificant?

Also to those that say heralds mean little against Odin... How many heralds would it take then to have challenged someone like Tyrant...

And the orbs iirc drained energy away from morg... Tyrant didn't necessary need the orb to empower morg when he gets his own energy from biospheres and his power was akin to galactus.

Originally posted by Cosmicus
It was also stated by a more credible source that Tyrant had no weaknesses. And the orb contained the left over power of a herald level being, the same level of characters Tyrant stomped with ease. I don't know why one would think it would do much against him.
No. It was straight up stated by Terrax who, as Tyrant's prisoner, saw how things went down in Tyrant's Fortress.

Thanos took Terrax's words to heart regarding the orbs and made a beeline for them while he used Terrax/Ganymede/Jack of Hearts/Legacy as a distraction. You'll notice Thanos did nothing to Tyrant TILL he blasted him with one of the Orbs. You'll also notice that he was holding on to that Orb for dear life during that entire fight.

None the less, it won't help him vs Odin. Those were Tyrant's strengths/weaknesses not Odin's.

Originally posted by zopzop
No. It was straight up stated by Terrax who, as Tyrant's prisoner, saw how things went down in Tyrant's Fortress.

Thanos took Terrax's words to heart regarding the orbs and made a beeline for them while he used Terrax/Ganymede/Jack of Hearts/Legacy as a distraction. You'll notice Thanos did nothing to Tyrant TILL he blasted him with one of the Orbs. You'll also notice that he was holding on to that Orb for dear life during that entire fight.

None the less, it won't help him vs Odin. Those were Tyrant's
strengths/weaknesses not Odin's.


It was outright stated by Ganymede that Tyrant had no weaknesses and she knows far more about Tyrant than Terrax does, his own words substantiate this. It seems pretty clear who's word should be given more credibility.

No. Once again that orb contained the left over power of one herald, so why you think it was significant against someone like Tyrant is beyond me. Thanos held his own because he's just that powerful.

That orb definitely had some juice in it. Tyrant was no selling Surfer's PC blasts and even no sold a blast from the orb straight up until Thanos turned it up a notch. I want to say that Tyrant could sense some residual WoL energies still in Morg, hence the reason he wanted to keep Morg opposed to the others when Galactus came (Tyrant said Morg was rife with energies) but that theory would be sort of suspect due to the fact that Terrax was able to stalemate Morg right before they got captured.

As for this fight, Thanos would fare better but still get put down via EMP pulse like attack like what happened with both Tyrant and Odin. The heralds get one shot.

Since this is current Thanos he would remember the first fight with Odin and maybe fight differently. Plus I would assume current Thanos is abit more powerful than Thanos that fought Odin the first time.

Given the one-sided nature of the first fight, being a bit more powerful isn't going to cut it.

I don't see what the heralds add, they're basically just flies. The most powerful herald in the group (i.e., Surfer) that fought Tyrant was one-shot by Odin.

Originally posted by One-Punch
I don't see what the heralds add, they're basically just flies. The most powerful herald in the group (i.e., Surfer) that fought Tyrant was one-shot by Odin.
KMC SURFER WINZORZ!!

Odin pushes in thanus' shit so badly that he wont be able to walk right for weeks.

Originally posted by Sundipped
That orb definitely had some juice in it. Tyrant was no selling Surfer's PC blasts and even no sold a blast from the orb straight up until Thanos turned it up a notch.





The orb contained the left over power of one herald. Tyrant stomped a group of them with ease. It makes little sense to me why one would think the orb contributed so much as opposed to Thanos himself.

And what do you mean by 'Thanos turning it up a notch?'

Originally posted by Cosmicus
The orb contained the left over power of one herald. Tyrant stomped a group of them with ease. It makes little sense to me why one would think the orb contributed so much as opposed to Thanos himself.

And what do you mean by 'Thanos turning it up a notch?'

It contained a large portion of energy from Morg. Morg was visibly weak and had to have his power cosmic restored by Tyrant before the second group of heralds came.

Tyrant tanked a blast from Thanos + orb here:

http://s2d2.turboimagehost.com/t/379379_Cosmic_Powers_06_Tyrant_Page_25_Image_0001.jpg

But obviously, he turned up here by actually managing to lift Tyrant off of his feet using his power + the orb:

http://s2d2.turboimagehost.com/t/379381_Cosmic_Powers_06_Tyrant_Page_27_Image_0001.jpg

That's why I said these conditions would allow Thanos to have a better chance against Odin considering just regular herald level blasts can, and have been no sold by skyfather level beings like Tyrant.

Originally posted by Sundipped
It contained a large portion of energy from Morg. Morg was visibly weak and had to have his power cosmic restored by Tyrant before the second group of heralds came.

Tyrant tanked a blast from Thanos + orb here:


But obviously, he turned up here by actually managing to lift Tyrant off of his feet using his power + the orb:



I have no clue where you are getting this from. You're asserting (if I'm not mistaken) that Thanos merged his power with the orb. Where was this shown or stated anywhere in the fight?

Originally posted by Cosmicus
I have no clue where you are getting this from. You're asserting (if I'm not mistaken) that Thanos merged his power with the orb. Where was this shown or stated anywhere in the fight?

http://s5d4.turboimagehost.com/t1/19168200_catsoup-11.jpg http://s5d4.turboimagehost.com/t1/19168201_catsoup-14.jpg

If Thanos thought his power alone would've been enough, he wouldn't have even bothered prepping like this. As it turned out, it still wasn't enough.

Originally posted by Cosmicus
It was outright stated by Ganymede that Tyrant had no weaknesses and she knows far more about Tyrant than Terrax does, his own words substantiate this. It seems pretty clear who's word should be given more credibility.

No. Once again that orb contained the left over power of one herald, so why you think it was significant against someone like Tyrant is beyond me. Thanos held his own because he's just that powerful.

Was it only one Herald's power that was drained off into the orb, or could there have been all of the ones that were kidnapped, and fought against Tyrant? I don't believe that this would bag Thanos the win here, but it would certainly add to his power, and even if Morg seemed like he was weak, or a mere Herald level character, Morg was supposed to be above the Herald tier at that point in time. The writers were all over the place with his power levels, and failed to review everything leading up too that point.

First of all this is where the writers messed up. The Water's of life were never removed from Morg. If this mystical force was removed Galactus would have never been able to resurrect Morg under his own power. If he could have, then he would have been able to revive Frankie Raye, and Gabriel the Airwalker. With Morg there was something different going on, and he was clearly killed once Galactus removed the PC from him, and allowed for his other Heralds to do away with him.

So once Galactus had revived Morg with the aid of the healing properties that the WOL gave it's host he, then re-powered him with the PC. This is something that the writers failed to show. The writers made it so that he was brought back nearly, or as powerful as he was when he only had the PC. If he had both the WOL, and the PC, there would have been no way that Terrax could have competed with him, because Terrax wasn't ever brought back up to full power during that point in time.

Going further back into Terrax's past; Galactus stripped him of much of the PC that he gave him, due to his disobedience against the Earth. to the point that he lacked the ability to travel from planet to planet. We see proof of this when he was unable to leave the planet that the Surfer exiled him on, which happened during his conflict with the New Warriors.
It was never explained how Terrax regained the ability to travel through space unaided, even up til this day. Galactus was never seen or said to have brought him back up to full Herald level.

All the same, if Thanos had the power of the WOL, and the PC in that orb, this would allow him quite the boost, as it was far greater than Herald level power. He would lose against Odin, but the fight would have been much closer than it was during their first meeting.

Originally posted by Stoic
Was it only one Herald's power that was drained off into the orb, or could there have been all of the ones that were kidnapped, and fought against Tyrant? I don't believe that this would bag Thanos the win here, but it would certainly add to his power, and even if Morg seemed like he was weak, or a mere Herald level character, Morg was supposed to be above the Herald tier at that point in time. The writers were all over the place with his power levels, and failed to review everything leading up too that point.

First of all this is where the writers messed up. The Water's of life were never removed from Morg. If this mystical force was removed Galactus would have never been able to resurrect Morg under his own power. If he could have, then he would have been able to revive Frankie Raye, and Gabriel the Airwalker. With Morg there was something different going on, and he was clearly killed once Galactus removed the PC from him, and allowed for his other Heralds to do away with him.

So once Galactus had revived Morg with the aid of the healing properties that the WOL gave it's host he, then re-powered him with the PC. This is something that the writers failed to show. The writers made it so that he was brought back nearly, or as powerful as he was when he only had the PC. If he had both the WOL, and the PC, there would have been no way that Terrax could have competed with him, because Terrax wasn't ever brought back up to full power during that point in time.

Going further back into Terrax's past; Galactus stripped him of much of the PC that he gave him, due to his disobedience against the Earth. to the point that he lacked the ability to travel from planet to planet. We see proof of this when he was unable to leave the planet that the Surfer exiled him on, which happened during his conflict with the New Warriors.
It was never explained how Terrax regained the ability to travel through space unaided, even up til this day. Galactus was never seen or said to have brought him back up to full Herald level.

All the same, if Thanos had the power of the WOL, and the PC in that orb, this would allow him quite the boost, as it was far greater than Herald level power. He would lose against Odin, but the fight would have been much closer than it was during their first meeting.


@Cosmicus
Dude go back and reread the Cosmic Powers limited series and the issues leading up to it.

Originally posted by zopzop


@Cosmicus
Dude go back and reread the Cosmic Powers limited series and the issues leading up to it.

Yes he clearly has to go back and read this, but he should also look back even further if he wants a bit more clarity on the subject.

Originally posted by Stoic
Was it only one Herald's power that was drained off into the orb, or could there have been all of the ones that were kidnapped, and fought against Tyrant? I don't believe that this would bag Thanos the win here, but it would certainly add to his power, and even if Morg seemed like he was weak, or a mere Herald level character, Morg was supposed to be above the Herald tier at that point in time. The writers were all over the place with his power levels, and failed to review everything leading up too that point.

First of all this is where the writers messed up. The Water's of life were never removed from Morg. If this mystical force was removed Galactus would have never been able to resurrect Morg under his own power. If he could have, then he would have been able to revive Frankie Raye, and Gabriel the Airwalker. With Morg there was something different going on, and he was clearly killed once Galactus removed the PC from him, and allowed for his other Heralds to do away with him.

So once Galactus had revived Morg with the aid of the healing properties that the WOL gave it's host he, then re-powered him with the PC. This is something that the writers failed to show. The writers made it so that he was brought back nearly, or as powerful as he was when he only had the PC. If he had both the WOL, and the PC, there would have been no way that Terrax could have competed with him, because Terrax wasn't ever brought back up to full power during that point in time.

Going further back into Terrax's past; Galactus stripped him of much of the PC that he gave him, due to his disobedience against the Earth. to the point that he lacked the ability to travel from planet to planet. We see proof of this when he was unable to leave the planet that the Surfer exiled him on, which happened during his conflict with the New Warriors.
It was never explained how Terrax regained the ability to travel through space unaided, even up til this day. Galactus was never seen or said to have brought him back up to full Herald level.

All the same, if Thanos had the power of the WOL, and the PC in that orb, this would allow him quite the boost, as it was far greater than Herald level power. He would lose against Odin, but the fight would have been much closer than it was during their first meeting.


I'm not sure what a lot of this has to do with what I said but I'll address this:

It was only the left over power of Morg in the orb, there was no mention of the WOL or anything else, unless I'm missing something.

My point is pretty simple; Tyrant stomped 5+ herald level beings. The orb only contained the left over power of one. With that taken into account, it makes little sense to think it was the orb that was significant against Tyrant as opposed to Thanos himself. Furthermore, there was no emphatic context that attributed to the orb being the reason why Thanos was able to hold his own against Tyrant.

Originally posted by Cosmicus
I'm not sure what a lot of this has to do with what I said but I'll address this:

It was only the left over power of Morg in the orb, there was no mention of the WOL or anything else, unless I'm missing something.

My point is pretty simple; Tyrant stomped 5+ herald level beings. The orb only contained the left over power of one. With that taken into account, it makes little sense to think it was the orb that was significant against Tyrant as opposed to Thanos himself. Furthermore, there was no emphatic context that attributed to the orb being the reason why Thanos was able to hold his own against Tyrant.

If it wasn't helping him in the fight, he would have placed it on the ground, and reclaimed it once the match was over. The drain placed on Morg would not just drain off the PC, and leave the WOL power alone. Why would it? It's not as if the other Herald level beings were all saturated with the Power Cosmic. All the same, trying to make heads or tails of the scene/s is almost impossible, because a couple of writers pitched in on the effort over a period of time. However the last writer failed to fully review everything pertaining to the character in question (Morg), which is why I wrote all of that stuff above. I was just trying to give you a clearer picture based on the real facts, which is what we are basing this discussion on. I mean without all of the facts, we won't be able to gauge just how powerful Thanos would be with the orb.

It's pretty clear that Tyrant was at least at medium to high Sky Father level, based on his battle with Galactus. It should also be clear when we think of how easily he was able to put those Herald level characters down. After all he wasn't trying to kill them, only drain them. Hope that helps.

Originally posted by Cosmicus
I'm not sure what a lot of this has to do with what I said but I'll address this:

It was only the left over power of Morg in the orb, there was no mention of the WOL or anything else, unless I'm missing something.

My point is pretty simple; Tyrant stomped 5+ herald level beings. The orb only contained the left over power of one. With that taken into account, it makes little sense to think it was the orb that was significant against Tyrant as opposed to Thanos himself. Furthermore, there was no emphatic context that attributed to the orb being the reason why Thanos was able to hold his own against Tyrant.

You keep saying "left over" energies but Morg was damn near drained of all of his power.

Morg's power was written up to be significant in Cosmic Powers and the relevant Silver Surfer issues. Tyrant alluded to Morg's power being something special. He had a chance to keep any of the other heralds but stood his ground against Galactus and demanded Morg be kept instead, even if it meant full scale war with Galactus. Tyrant called everyone else, even Surfer, rubbish. That's saying a lot.

Now we have Thanos seeking a challenge and he specifically sought out this particular orb before facing Tyrant. An orb he was desperately trying to keep up with during the fight. He knew his power alone wasn't going to be enough, hell, I just remembered him having trouble with Morg (he no sold a blast from Thanos) before he finally put him down for a couple of panels with help from Gaynamede Doesn't all this tell you something? What it should tell you is that orb had a good degree of significance....for Tyrant and Thanos.

I've seen people post about their beliefs why thanos used the orb but the rebuttal over and over that it's the "left over energy" and therefore wasn't that useful to thanos? Where was that stated. The issues show thanos going down over and over and evening the tide after getting his hands on the orb. Therefore it's not insignificant. Fairly simple and I don't understand why you argue over and over it is without any proof.

Originally posted by Sundipped
You keep saying "left over" energies but Morg was damn near drained of all of his power.

Morg's power was written up to be significant in Cosmic Powers and the relevant Silver Surfer issues. Tyrant alluded to Morg's power being something special. He had a chance to keep any of the other heralds but stood his ground against Galactus and demanded Morg be kept instead, even if it meant full scale war with Galactus. Tyrant called everyone else, even Surfer, rubbish. That's saying a lot.

Now we have Thanos seeking a challenge and he specifically sought out this particular orb before facing Tyrant. An orb he was desperately trying to keep up with during the fight. He knew his power alone wasn't going to be enough, hell, I just remembered him having trouble with Morg (he no sold a blast from Thanos) before he finally put him down for a couple of panels with help from Gaynamede Doesn't all this tell you something? What it should tell you is that orb had a good degree of significance....for Tyrant and Thanos.

Exactly. Morg was damn near drained. this shows that Thanos had quite a bit of power to add to his. Morg was well above the high Herald tier, as seen when he nearly killed all of the Herald's of Galactus. The fault in the inconsistencies lies with the last writer, as Zop mentioned a couple of years ago.

Originally posted by Sundipped
Now we have Thanos seeking a challenge and he specifically sought out this particular orb before facing Tyrant. An orb he was desperately trying to keep up with during the fight. He knew his power alone wasn't going to be enough, hell, I just remembered him having trouble with Morg (he no sold a blast from Thanos) before he finally put him down for a couple of panels with help from Gaynamede Doesn't all this tell you something? What it should tell you is that orb had a good degree of significance....for Tyrant and Thanos.



His own power wasn't going to be enough, so he uses not even the full power of one herald level being, the same level of characters who are clearly below Thanos and Tyrant in power, as significant help? Come on. A minor struggle against Morg whenever the same guy was matched by Terrax in the same issue doesn't mean much.

I mean seriously, what's basically being implied here is that the left over energies of one herald is going to contribute signifantly against a Galactus level being. You people need to think.

Originally posted by Cosmicus
His own power wasn't going to be enough, so he uses not even the full power of one herald level being, the same level of characters who are clearly below Thanos and Tyrant in power, as significant help? Come on. A minor struggle against Morg whenever the same guy was matched by Terrax in the same issue doesn't mean much.

I mean seriously, what's basically being implied here is that the left over energies of one herald is going to contribute signifantly against a Galactus level being. You people need to think.

http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/disgraced.gif

You only focused on that one paragraph from my post failing to understand the overall context and significance of what Morg's power meant (thought I made it clear with the entirety of my last post) in this arc which has been expressed and pointed out time and time again by me, Stoic and Zop. Anyway I'm done here. Zop or Stoic you can take it from here.

Originally posted by Cosmicus
His own power wasn't going to be enough, so he uses not even the full power of one herald level being, the same level of characters who are clearly below Thanos and Tyrant in power, as significant help? Come on. A minor struggle against Morg whenever the same guy was matched by Terrax in the same issue doesn't mean much.

I mean seriously, what's basically being implied here is that the left over energies of one herald is going to contribute signifantly against a Galactus level being. You people need to think.

What you are not understanding is that in this special case Morg's power was not properly showcased, and in a forum setting the error must be dealt with in order to understand just how powerful Thanos was at the moment that he held to orb. Morg possessed more than Herald level power, This is something that Sundipped is trying to help you to understand. I even gave you a brief history lesson on the events which lead up to the confrontation, but for some odd reason you choose to ignore it, and go back to square one. All the same Odin would win, but the fight would be much closer than it was when Thanos was clearly out of his depth.

The only way that you will understand this is if you go back and see all of the angles, which happened in books outside of the Cosmic Powers books. For one Terrax shouldn't have been anywhere near capable of standing against Morg for more than a brief moment because Galactus never gave him back what he stripped from him. Which like I said every writer respected the continuity of the events up until the last writer got his hands on it. The only thing that we are trying to tell you is that you aren't seeing the entire picture, but only what was etched out in the last couple of books before Morg finally died.

@Stoic/Sundipped/Cosmicus

Keep in mind, after Tyrant's death, we didn't hear the last of those Orbs.

In a story published after Tyrant's death; Jakkar, Stranger's rival, wanted to get his hands on one so he could unlock it's secrets and use it's power against the Stranger. He even thought that once he mastered it completely he'd be able to use it to conquer the universe.

Originally posted by Stoic
What you are not understanding is that in this special case Morg's power was not properly showcased, and in a forum setting the error must be dealt with in order to understand just how powerful Thanos was at the moment that he held to orb. Morg possessed more than Herald level power, This is something that Sundipped is trying to help you to understand. I even gave you a brief history lesson on the events which lead up to the confrontation, but for some odd reason you choose to ignore it, and go back to square one. All the same Odin would win, but the fight would be much closer than it was when Thanos was clearly out of his depth.

The only way that you will understand this is if you go back and see all of the angles, which happened in books outside of the Cosmic Powers books. For one Terrax shouldn't have been anywhere near capable of standing against Morg for more than a brief moment because Galactus never gave him back what he stripped from him. Which like I said every writer respected the continuity of the events up until the last writer got his hands on it. The only thing that we are trying to tell you is that you aren't seeing the entire picture, but only what was etched out in the last couple of books before Morg finally died.


I went back and re-read some stuff, and what I said still stands. You and SundippedSuperman and whoever else are claiming that Morg was at 'above herald levels' and I have yet to see any evidence for this, or any evidence of the orb contributing significantly against Tyrant.

I want you to answer this question, and this is essentially what I've been saying from the very beginning; why would an orb containing the left over power of a herald level being do anything of any significant degree whatsoever to Tyrant when we have seen him easily defeat characters who are more powerful?

Originally posted by Cosmicus
I went back and re-read some stuff, and what I said still stands. You and SundippedSuperman and whoever else are claiming that Morg was at 'above herald levels' and I have yet to see any evidence for this, or any evidence of the orb contributing significantly against Tyrant.

I want you to answer this question, and this is essentially what I've been saying from the very beginning; why would an orb containing the left over power of a herald level being do anything of any significant degree whatsoever to Tyrant when we have seen him easily defeat characters who are more powerful?
Because Morg still had the Well of Life spark in him. That was the only reason why Galactus was able to resurrect him. Then Galactus restored his PC. So it's Morg with Well of Life spark (at least) plus the PC.

Originally posted by Cosmicus
I went back and re-read some stuff, and what I said still stands. You and SundippedSuperman and whoever else are claiming that Morg was at 'above herald levels' and I have yet to see any evidence for this, or any evidence of the orb contributing significantly against Tyrant.

I want you to answer this question, and this is essentially what I've been saying from the very beginning; why would an orb containing the left over power of a herald level being do anything of any significant degree whatsoever to Tyrant when we have seen him easily defeat characters who are more powerful?

Morg was above Herald level, and his battle with the other Heralds proves this. Terrax even stated that they were no match for him, and that he wold kill them all, which included the Silver Surfer. This is why Norrin went to seek aid from Galactus, who in turn removed the power cosmic from Morg, giving the other heralds the chance to kill him. Galactus then revives Morg, and once again restores the power cosmic to him. This means that Morg still possessed both the waters of life, and the power cosmic. Morg was also nearly drained of his power by Tyrant, which was on panel. So the left over power that was inside of that orb was actually a significant amount of power. Thanos was amplified while holding the orb, and to a decent degree, which is why his battle with Tyrant wasn't a total sweep in tyrant's favor. We saw how easily Galactus overpowered Thanos in the story where they fought the Hunger, and Tyrant was very close in power to Galactus. It is clear that Thanos was amplified by more than a mere high Heralds power.

Originally posted by zopzop
Because Morg still had the Well of Life spark in him. That was the only reason why Galactus was able to resurrect him. Then Galactus restored his PC. So it's Morg with Well of Life spark (at least) plus the PC.

Yep.

Originally posted by zopzop
Because Morg still had the Well of Life spark in him. That was the only reason why Galactus was able to resurrect him. Then Galactus restored his PC. So it's Morg with Well of Life spark (at least) plus the PC.

And this would totally explain why Tyrant was willing to risk an all out war with Galactus right there on the spot instead of giving up Morg. It also explains how he didn't give a shit about the other heralds at all. He could've kept all the other heralds and even siphoned them together but no.....he only wanted Morg. He pointed directly at Morg and said this one here is full of power which is sharply contrasted to what he thought about the others.

If the context behind that can not be understood I dunno what else to say.

Originally posted by Sundipped
And this would totally explain why Tyrant was willing to risk an all out war with Galactus right there on the spot instead of giving up Morg. It also explains how he didn't give a shit about the other heralds at all. He could've kept all the other heralds and even siphoned them together but no.....he only wanted Morg. He pointed directly at Morg and said this one here is full of power which is sharply contrasted to what he thought about the others.

If the context behind that can not be understood I dunno what else to say.
Because Morg and Tyrant are horribly disrespected for some reason on this board.

Originally posted by Stoic
Morg was above Herald level, and his battle with the other Heralds proves this. Terrax even stated that they were no match for him, and that he wold kill them all, which included the Silver Surfer. This is why Norrin went to seek aid from Galactus, who in turn removed the power cosmic from Morg, giving the other heralds the chance to kill him. Galactus then revives Morg, and once again restores the power cosmic to him. This means that Morg still possessed both the waters of life, and the power cosmic. Morg was also nearly drained of his power by Tyrant, which was on panel. So the left over power that was inside of that orb was actually a significant amount of power. Thanos was amplified while holding the orb, and to a decent degree, which is why his battle with Tyrant wasn't a total sweep in tyrant's favor. We saw how easily Galactus overpowered Thanos in the story where they fought the Hunger, and Tyrant was very close in power to Galactus. It is clear that Thanos was amplified by more than a mere high Heralds power.



Yeah, I don't think this is correct. I invite you to show me one piece of evidence that the orb was amping him in that fight. Because the context of the fight mentions nothing of the sort. In fact, the context directly credits Thanos himself for holding his own against Tyrant and not the orb whatsoever.

Why do you think Morg still possessed the WOL after Galactus restored him? Where was that stated?

Originally posted by Cosmicus
Originally posted by Stoic
Morg was above Herald level, and his battle with the other Heralds proves this. Terrax even stated that they were no match for him, and that he wold kill them all, which included the Silver Surfer. This is why Norrin went to seek aid from Galactus, who in turn removed the power cosmic from Morg, giving the other heralds the chance to kill him. Galactus then revives Morg, and once again restores the power cosmic to him. This means that Morg still possessed both the waters of life, and the power cosmic. Morg was also nearly drained of his power by Tyrant, which was on panel. So the left over power that was inside of that orb was actually a significant amount of power. Thanos was amplified while holding the orb, and to a decent degree, which is why his battle with Tyrant wasn't a total sweep in tyrant's favor. We saw how easily Galactus overpowered Thanos in the story where they fought the Hunger, and Tyrant was very close in power to Galactus. It is clear that Thanos was amplified by more than a mere high Heralds power.



Yeah, I don't think this is correct. I invite you to show me one piece of evidence that the orb was amping him in that fight. Because the context of the fight mentions nothing of the sort. In fact, the context directly credits Thanos himself for holding his own against Tyrant and not the orb whatsoever.

Why do you think Morg still possessed the WOL after Galactus restored him? Where was that stated?
He possessed, at a MINIMUM, a spark of the Well of Life :
http://s18.postimg.org/nfmfq6xdx/Silver_Surfer_v3_078_09.jpg

Tyrant said he was flush with power and risked a war to keep him as an energy source as opposed to ALL the other characters he captured (BRB, Surfer, Terrax, Jack of Hearts, Ganymede, Gladiator) :
http://s21.postimg.org/lioilc8dv/Silver_Surfer_v3_082_36.jpg http://s21.postimg.org/z0vexmkj7/Silver_Surfer_v3_082_37.jpg

Thanos went out of his way to acquire that SPECIFIC orb despite the hundreds of orbs Tyrant had (some even larger than the orb that held Morg's power).

Morg wasn't above the High Herald tier when Tyrant took his energy. The only time Morg was above that tier was when he had the WOL. Terrax did good against Morg like 3 times...wouldn't if Morg is above Herald tier then Tyrant should be as well (which is laughable).

Originally posted by zopzop
He possessed, at a MINIMUM, a spark of the Well of Life :
http://s18.postimg.org/nfmfq6xdx/Silver_Surfer_v3_078_09.jpg

Tyrant said he was flush with power and risked a war to keep him as an energy source as opposed to ALL the other characters he captured (BRB, Surfer, Terrax, Jack of Hearts, Ganymede, Gladiator) :
http://s21.postimg.org/lioilc8dv/Silver_Surfer_v3_082_36.jpg http://s21.postimg.org/z0vexmkj7/Silver_Surfer_v3_082_37.jpg

Thanos went out of his way to acquire that SPECIFIC orb despite the hundreds of orbs Tyrant had (some even larger than the orb that held Morg's power).

Tyrant kept Morg instead of the others simply to spite Galactus. It had nothing to do with his power level. Anyway, Odin wins here. The additional power from the orb isn't going to be nearly enough.

Originally posted by carver9
Morg wasn't above the High Herald tier when Tyrant took his energy. The only time Morg was above that tier was when he had the WOL. Terrax did good against Morg like 3 times...wouldn't if Morg is above Herald tier then Tyrant should be as well (which is laughable).
How did you miss the fact that Morg took on a Team that consisted of Terrax/Ganymede/Thanos. In fact, Thanos specifically asked Ganymede for assistance in dealing with Morg.

Morg muscled through Thanos' blast and floored him, then before he could sink his axe into him, Thanos reached Terrax's axe and fended off the blow.

Morg did better vs Thanos than any herald that I can recall.

Originally posted by Dampyre
Tyrant kept Morg instead of the others simply to spite Galactus. It had nothing to do with his power level. Anyway, Odin wins here. The additional power from the orb isn't going to be nearly enough.
Why did he describe his as "flush with power"?

Also, Galactus specifically said the only reason why he was able to resurrect Morg was because of the Well of Life spark inside him.

Originally posted by zopzop
Why did he describe his as "flush with power"?

Also, Galactus specifically said the only reason why he was able to resurrect Morg was because of the Well of Life spark inside him.

Well, because he was flush with power. Tyrant also said that the Surfer was the most powerful of the ones he captured, including Morg. The WOL allowed Galactus to bring Morg back but that doesn't mean he still had the WOL augmentation. That was pretty clearly shown when Morg fought Terrax. I thought that it was pretty clear that Tyrant took Morg just to piss off Galactus.

Originally posted by Dampyre
Well, because he was flush with power. Tyrant also said that the Surfer was the most powerful of the ones he captured, including Morg. The WOL allowed Galactus to bring Morg back but that doesn't mean he still had the WOL augmentation. That was pretty clearly shown when Morg fought Terrax. I thought that it was pretty clear that Tyrant took Morg just to piss off Galactus.


Indeed. There was no mention of Morg still possessing the WOL, and Terrax matching him blow for blow clearly substantiates this. Also, if the orb was so significant then surely there would be context crediting it when Thanos fought Tyrant, and yet nothing of the sort was shown. Taking this into account, I really can't believe some of these people thought that an orb containing the left over power of one herald was supposed to be a threat to a Galactus level being.

Originally posted by Cosmicus
Indeed. There was no mention of Morg still possessing the WOL, and Terrax matching him blow for blow clearly substantiates this. Also, if the orb was so significant then surely there would be context crediting it when Thanos fought Tyrant, and yet nothing of the sort was shown. Taking this into account, I really can't believe some of these people thought that an orb containing the left over power of one herald was supposed to be a threat to a Galactus level being.

I do believe that the orb was augmenting Thanos' power a bit but, yeah, it wasn't nearly enough.

Originally posted by zopzop
How did you miss the fact that Morg took on a Team that consisted of Terrax/Ganymede/Thanos. In fact, Thanos specifically asked Ganymede for assistance in dealing with Morg.

Morg muscled through Thanos' blast and floored him, then before he could sink his axe into him, Thanos reached Terrax's axe and fended off the blow.

Morg did better vs Thanos than any herald that I can recall.

He fought those Heralds with the WOL. Give it to Surfer and he will be able to achieve the same thing.

He did have a good showing against Thanos but during that run, Jack of Hearts had a good showing against Tyrant. Hell, Jack hurt Tyrant more than Thanos with an amp did.

Also, that one fight doesn't exclude Morg other battles (without the WOL).

Originally posted by carver9
He fought those Heralds with the WOL. Give it to Surfer and he will be able to achieve the same thing.

He did have a good showing against Thanos but during that run, Jack of Hearts had a good showing against Tyrant. Hell, Jack hurt Tyrant more than Thanos with an amp did.

Also, that one fight doesn't exclude Morg other battles (without the WOL).
Wrong, Jack never hurt Tyrant. He staggered him a bit. That's all (which is still impressive for a low herald). Ganymede did better.

Thanos with the Orb actually knocked Tyrant off his feet and went H2H with him for a little bit before Tyrant floored him.

Originally posted by Dampyre
I do believe that the orb was augmenting Thanos' power a bit but, yeah, it wasn't nearly enough.


The orb wasn't amping him. There is literally not a single piece of evidence suggesting that the orb helped Thanos at all when he fought Tyrant. And why would it? It contained the left over power of one herald, unless we want argue that herald level beings now have power on par with Thanos and apparently are a threat to Galactus level beings.

Originally posted by zopzop
Wrong, Jack never hurt Tyrant. He staggered him a bit. That's all (which is still impressive for a low herald). Ganymede did better.

Thanos with the Orb actually knocked Tyrant off his feet and went H2H with him for a little bit before Tyrant floored him.

You're right...she did cause him pain which still solidifies my argument.


http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/15462929/CosmicPowers06Tyrant_Page_15_Image_0001.jpg.html

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/15462931/CosmicPowers06Tyrant_Page_17_Image_0001.jpg.html

Also, Jack attacks was doing something to Tyrant which again, helps my argument.

Morg took on the other herald with just the Well of Life so he didn't need another power aid imo.

Originally posted by Cosmicus
The orb wasn't amping him. There is literally not a single piece of evidence suggesting that the orb helped Thanos at all when he fought Tyrant. And why would it? It contained the left over power of one herald, unless we want argue that herald level beings now have power on par with Thanos and apparently are a threat to Galactus level beings.

Then why was Thanos using it in battle if it wasn't doing anything? There were times in that fight where Thanos acted like his life depended on that orb. The orb augmented Thanos' EP. He also used it as a striking weapon.

Originally posted by Dampyre
Then why was Thanos using it in battle if it wasn't doing anything? There were times in that fight where Thanos acted like his life depended on that orb. The orb augmented Thanos' EP. He also used it as a striking weapon.


Thanos attacked him with it a few times, that's about it. There's no evidence that the orb actually did anything against Tyrant. My main point is that the orb had very little to do with Thanos holding his own against Tyrant. People are claiming that the orb played a significant part against Tyrant, and this is just untrue. Like I said before, this assertion is basically implying that the left over power of one herald is apparently a threat to a Galactus level being, which of course makes no sense, you know?

http://s11.postimg.org/i5icdto3j/1057393_tyrant3.jpg

Yeah, the orb clearly didn't contribute anything meaningful.

Look at Thanos scrambling for it desperately then using it to hurt Tyrant.



How can you even say that with a straight face based on the fight?

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus




That doesn't really mean anything. Tyrant also grunted like that when Galactus blasted him and the former said that the blast just made him stronger.

My point still stands.

Originally posted by Cosmicus
That doesn't really mean anything. Tyrant also grunted like that when Galactus blasted him and the former said that the blast just made him stronger.

My point still stands.

Did Tyrant suggest that attacks from the orb made him stronger or did he equate their effects similar on him to Galactus' power? No? Then why is it relevant here?

Thanos used the orb on different occasions to hurt Tyrant:
http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk109/DRDOOMSDAY-360/marvel%20universe/Tyrant/thetyrantvsthanosbattle4.jpg

He specifically prepared the orb for his fight with Tyrant. As a matter of fact, the orbs were stated to be Tyrant's greatest weakness (In that they can be turned against him I assume).

Thus, arguing the orbs did not have any significant effect is silly.

No, it doesn't because your point is idiotic in light of the context of the scene.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Did Tyrant suggest that attacks from the orb made him stronger or did he equate their effects similar on him to Galactus' power? No? Then why is it relevant here?

Thanos used the orb on different occasions to hurt Tyrant:

He specifically prepared the orb for his fight with Tyrant. As a matter of fact, the orbs were stated to be Tyrant's greatest weakness (In that they can be turned against him I assume).

Thus, arguing the orbs did not have any significant effect is silly.

No, it doesn't because your point is idiotic in light of the context of the scene.


Not specifically, but we know that absorbing cosmic energy is what he does, and in a similar scenario such attacks only made him stronger. On a similar token, was there any context crediting the orb for Thanos' performance against Tyrant or suggesting it weakened him? No? Yeah.

I don't see anything in the scan that suggests Tyrant was hurt or weakened.

Tyrant doesn't have any weaknesses. You're probably referring to what Terrax said, but Ganymede has outright stated that he doesn't have any weaknesses and she knows far more about Tyrant than Terrax does.

You say my point is idiotic when you think that an orb containing the left over power one herald is supposed to be a threat to a Galactus level being. The irony is thickening.

Originally posted by Cosmicus
Not specifically, but we know that absorbing cosmic energy is what he does, and in a similar scenario such attacks only made him stronger. On a similar token, was there any context crediting the orb for Thanos' performance against Tyrant or suggesting it weakened him? No? Yeah.

I don't see anything in the scan that suggests Tyrant was hurt or weakened.

Tyrant doesn't have any weaknesses. You're probably referring to what Terrax said, but Ganymede has outright stated that he doesn't have any weaknesses and she knows far more about Tyrant than Terrax does.

You say my point is idiotic when you think that an orb containing the left over power one herald is supposed to be a threat to a Galactus level being. The irony is thickening.

And yet the orb was clearly a factor in the fight and aided Thanos against Tyrant. How would that work if the orb made Tyrant stronger?

Then you need to get your eyes checked.

Clearly he does as Thanos was able to use the orb against him.

Your point is nonsense. If you think the orb being such a large factor is stupid then just say so and move on. Pretending it wasn't in light of the evidence not only discredits any legitimate point you might have, it also just makes you look silly.

Anyways, I'm done with this particular discussion. Whether your trolling or just out of it, I don't know, but I'm not changing your mind so whatever.

If someone can, please post the entire Tyrant vs. Thanos fight so people can decide for themselves.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
And yet the orb was clearly a factor in the fight and aided Thanos against Tyrant. How would that work if the orb made Tyrant stronger?

Then you need to get your eyes checked.

Clearly he does as Thanos was able to use the orb against him.

Your point is nonsense. If you think the orb being such a large factor is stupid then just say so and move on. Pretending it wasn't in light of the evidence not only discredits any legitimate point you might have, it also just makes you look silly.

Anyways, I'm done with this particular discussion. Whether your trolling or just out of it, I don't know, but I'm not changing your mind so whatever.

If someone can, please post the entire Tyrant vs. Thanos fight so people can decide for themselves.


Despite the fact that there is nothing to suggest that the orb weakened him or contributed to Thanos' performance against Tyrant.

So he has a weakness to the orb because Thanos attacked him with it? Nevermind the fact that it was stated he has no weakness and there was no evidence to suggest the orb did anything in that fight. Please go on, I could use more laughs.

Sorry, but those aren't my debating standards. It's hilarious how you think the evidence actually supports what you're saying when it doesn't. At all. It supports my position because:

1. The context clearly credits Thanos for his performance against Tyrant. Thanos says "I have withstood you", clearly crediting himself and not the orb. The same with Tyrant, he says "you are more than the others were", clearly crediting Thanos and not the orb being the reason.

2. The orb contained the left over power of one herald, the same level of characters Tyrant stomped with ease. Unless you want to argue that herald level characters are now a threat to Galactus level beings. Be my guest, because I could use the laugh.

He's a lost cause Rage.
Anyway here's the fight:

http://s2d2.turboimagehost.com/t/379377_Cosmic_Powers_06_Tyrant_Page_23_Image_0001.jpg http://s2d2.turboimagehost.com/t/379378_Cosmic_Powers_06_Tyrant_Page_24_Image_0001.jpg http://s2d2.turboimagehost.com/t/379379_Cosmic_Powers_06_Tyrant_Page_25_Image_0001.jpg http://s2d2.turboimagehost.com/t/379380_Cosmic_Powers_06_Tyrant_Page_26_Image_0001.jpg http://s2d2.turboimagehost.com/t/379381_Cosmic_Powers_06_Tyrant_Page_27_Image_0001.jpg http://s2d2.turboimagehost.com/t/379387_Cosmic_Powers_06_Tyrant_Page_28_Image_0001.jpg http://s2d2.turboimagehost.com/t/379388_Cosmic_Powers_06_Tyrant_Page_29_Image_0001.jpg http://s2d2.turboimagehost.com/t/379390_Cosmic_Powers_06_Tyrant_Page_30_Image_0001.jpg http://s2d2.turboimagehost.com/t/379391_Cosmic_Powers_06_Tyrant_Page_31_Image_0001.jpg http://s2d2.turboimagehost.com/t/379392_Cosmic_Powers_06_Tyrant_Page_32_Image_0001.jpg

Terrax gave Thanos a heads up on what can be used against Tyrant.
Gaynamede asks "what else have you learned? What can we use to defeat him"?
Tyrant himself stated on panel that Morg was full of energy.
After a quick briefing of Tyrant's computer Thanos specifically sought out the orb containing Morg's energy.
Thanos is shown desperately clinging on to the orb during the fight.
Thanos is actively shown aiming the orb for energy projection.

I mean some things don't have to be written out or outright stated to reach the conclusion that the orb was a significant factor. Jeezus Christ.

Originally posted by Cosmicus

1. The context clearly credits Thanos for his performance against Tyrant. Thanos says "I have withstood you", clearly crediting himself and not the orb. The same with Tyrant, he says "you are more than the others were", clearly crediting Thanos and not the orb being the reason.

Lol. After Thanos blasts Tyrant with the orb.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/379378/Cosmic_Powers_06_Tyrant_Page_24_Image_0001.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/379379/Cosmic_Powers_06_Tyrant_Page_25_Image_0001.jpg.html

So what's your excuse now?

I mean, the only time Thanos even attacks Tyrant without the orb is in this one panel:
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/379390/Cosmic_Powers_06_Tyrant_Page_30_Image_0001.jpg.html

And that's almost certainly an artistic error because he strikes with his right hand, the same hand the orb is in during the second panel.

Thanks to Sundipped for the scans.

Originally posted by carver9
You're right...she did cause him pain which still solidifies my argument.


http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/15462929/CosmicPowers06Tyrant_Page_15_Image_0001.jpg.html

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/15462931/CosmicPowers06Tyrant_Page_17_Image_0001.jpg.html

Also, Jack attacks was doing something to Tyrant which again, helps my argument.

Ganymede's race was specifically created to combat Tyrant. They have been at war for eons so it's plausible that her staff was constructed to have more of an effect.

Terrax swiped and cut some appendages. Not that hard for a ax to do. It didn't hit any real flesh.

I don't see that as a stagger, Tyrant's legs didn't move at all. Hell, Jack had a point blank blast no sold earlier.

http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/19176840_2890785-ss_v3_082_06b.jpg

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Lol. After Thanos blasts Tyrant with the orb.


So what's your excuse now?

I mean, the only time Thanos even attacks Tyrant without the orb is in this one panel:


And that's almost certainly an artistic error because he strikes with his right hand, the same hand the orb is in during the second panel.

Thanks to Sundipped for the scans.


Even though Tyrant directly attributes the blast to Thanos and not the orb, but whatever.

Sure, we see Thanos attack Tyrant with the orb but here's the thing; so what? Is an orb containing the left over power of one herald supposed to be a big deal against someone who toppled a whole bunch of herald level beings and even Galactus himself? This is what you and Sundipped and whoever else have embraced, despite the fact that it makes no sense whatsoever.

But do continue reiterating the same nonsense and then saying I'm the silly one. The irony is hilarious.

Originally posted by Sundipped



I mean some things don't have to be written out or outright stated to reach the conclusion that the orb was a significant factor. Jeezus Christ.

I would like to think that something like that should be displayed if the orb is supposedly contributed so much to Thanos enduring Tyrant, and yet there wasn't. You posted the scans yourself.

And, again, this orb containing the left over power of a herald is supposed to be significant against a Galactus level being? Come on now. Lets use our heads here.

Odin wins.

I'm still trying to figure out how Morg is a mere Herald? How could he be called a threat to the entire pantheon of Galactus' Heralds if he was a mere Herald level character himself? The Surfer defeated Morg when he only had the Power Cosmic, he was certainly not going to beat him when he possessed the Water's of Life combined with the Power Cosmic. All of them were going to die, which was stated on panel. I guess that this should be ignored in order to continue saying that he was only a Herald. It does not add up. Cosmicus does this make any sense to you? If it does please explain it, and don't dance around it, or you will only appear to be incorrect about Morg.

Let me be clear, because when I explained this earlier you seemed to move into territory that had no bearing on the character. How is Morg a mere Herald if he had both the Water's of Life, and the Power Cosmic, and was nearly drained when the conflict with Thanos, and Tyrant began?

Originally posted by Cosmicus
I would like to think that something like that should be displayed if the orb is supposedly contributed so much to Thanos enduring Tyrant, and yet there wasn't. You posted the scans yourself.

And, again, this orb containing the left over power of a herald is supposed to be significant against a Galactus level being? Come on now. Lets use our heads here.

Wait a minute. If Thanos didn't need the Orb to fight Tyrant, why did he have it in his possession? Why bring it to the fight if it isn't needed? When Thanos dropped it, why was he struggling to pick it up if he didn't need it? Why not just blast him with his own power? Lol...it's OBVIOUS the orb amped Thanos. No denying this.

Originally posted by carver9
Wait a minute. If Thanos didn't need the Orb to fight Tyrant, why did he have it in his possession? Why bring it to the fight if it isn't needed? When Thanos dropped it, why was he struggling to pick it up if he didn't need it? Why not just blast him with his own power? Lol...it's OBVIOUS the orb amped Thanos. No denying this.

This question was already asked, and there was no answer to it, at least not one that was suitable. It was instead swept away as a non factor. This is the type of thing that you get when people can't explain things or admit that they may be wrong.

Originally posted by Stoic
I'm still trying to figure out how Morg is a mere Herald? How could he be called a threat to the entire pantheon of Galactus' Heralds if he was a mere Herald level character himself? The Surfer defeated Morg when he only had the Power Cosmic, he was certainly not going to beat him when he possessed the Water's of Life combined with the Power Cosmic. All of them were going to die, which was stated on panel. I guess that this should be ignored in order to continue saying that he was only a Herald. It does not add up. Cosmicus does this make any sense to you? If it does please explain it, and don't dance around it, or you will only appear to be incorrect about Morg.

Let me be clear, because when I explained this earlier you seemed to move into territory that had no bearing on the character. How is Morg a mere Herald if he had both the Water's of Life, and the Power Cosmic, and was nearly drained when the conflict with Thanos, and Tyrant began?


I don't recall anything about Morg possessing the WOL after Galactus restored him. If you have evidence that he did, I invite you to show it to me, because Morg being matched by Terrax clearly suggests otherwise.

Originally posted by Cosmicus
I don't recall anything about Morg possessing the WOL after Galactus restored him. If you have evidence that he did, I invite you to show it to me, because Morg being matched by Terrax clearly suggests otherwise.

i also did not recall Terrax ever being restored to power by Galactus, which goes to show the inconsistencies that that particular writer messed up on. I do see your point, but it was never stated that the WOL was gone. Where did it go? Morg also had it out with Thanos if you recall, and was doing well in their battle. Do you think Terrax would have done as well? You see the inconsistencies that i am talking about now? Thanos after all would one shot KO Terrax.

Originally posted by carver9
Wait a minute. If Thanos didn't need the Orb to fight Tyrant, why did he have it in his possession? Why bring it to the fight if it isn't needed? When Thanos dropped it, why was he struggling to pick it up if he didn't need it? Why not just blast him with his own power? Lol...it's OBVIOUS the orb amped Thanos. No denying this.


Because he was looking for knowledge on Tyrant, and obtained the orb. Obviously he isn't going to just toss away what he was looking for, but contrary to popular belief he didn't need it to fight Tyrant. The popular belief is that the orb played a significant part in his fight with Tyrant. This is just flat out untrue for reasons I've stated countless times but I will list them once more:

1. There is no context crediting the orb for Thanos' performance against Tyrant. Surely if the orb was supposed to be this weapon crucial against Tyrant then there would be some sort of context crediting it, and yet there is not.

2. The orb contained the left over power of one herald. Considering we have seen Tyrant stomp five herald level beings and even topple Galactus, it makes no sense at all why the orb would do anything against him.

Originally posted by Stoic
i also did not recall Terrax ever being restored to power by Galactus, which goes to show the inconsistencies that that particular writer messed up on. I do see your point, but it was never stated that the WOL was gone. Where did it go? Morg also had it out with Thanos if you recall, and was doing well in their battle. Do you think Terrax would have done as well? You see the inconsistencies that i am talking about now? Thanos after all would one shot KO Terrax.


I see your point but I'm not really inclined to believe that Morg possessed the WOL just because Thanos had a minor struggle with him. The reason being is because firstly, I don't see why he would still have it after being restored. You asserting that he still possessed it frankly seems more like your own interpretation more than anything. And, of course the fact that Terrax matched him in the same issue.

Originally posted by Cosmicus
I see your point but I'm not really inclined to believe that Morg possessed the WOL just because Thanos had a minor struggle with him. The reason being is because firstly, I don't see why he would still have it after being restored. You asserting that he still possessed it frankly seems more like your own interpretation more than anything. And, of course the fact that Terrax matched him in the same issue.

If you look at it the other way though, it could easily be said the same of you. I am inclined to believe that it was your own interpretation of events and not what was actually happening. i could also go on to state that for the sake of plot, Terrax did well against Morg that still possessed both power ups. After all Thanos would not struggle even briefly with Terrax. In fact he could one shot a character of his power level. What we have here is poor writing in my honest opinion, and as your points combined with my points shows, were there were simply too many holes to make heads or tails of Morg's true power level.

Since it has become obvious that neither of us will agree due mostly to lack of proof, (Morg having a tough time with Terrax vs Morg doing well against Thanos) we may as well agree to disagree, because there really is no hard evidence to suggest either of us is correct.

Concerning the orb, what you have is Thanos scurrying to regain possession of what you believe was a useless trinket, while others believe that the orb was actually helping to augment Thanos' personal power to a significant degree. I mean why scramble for a gun, if it is useless in a fight? has thanos ever come across as a flake? This is what everyone else see's while you on the other hand do not. So in the event that you continue to disagree, I am hoping that you can at least see why people would draw upon the conclusion that the orb was actually a weapon.

Originally posted by Cosmicus
Because he was looking for knowledge on Tyrant, and obtained the orb. Obviously he isn't going to just toss away what he was looking for, but contrary to popular belief he didn't need it to fight Tyrant. The popular belief is that the orb played a significant part in his fight with Tyrant. This is just flat out untrue for reasons I've stated countless times but I will list them once more:

1. There is no context crediting the orb for Thanos' performance against Tyrant. Surely if the orb was supposed to be this weapon crucial against Tyrant then there would be some sort of context crediting it, and yet there is not.

2. The orb contained the left over power of one herald. Considering we have seen Tyrant stomp five herald level beings and even topple Galactus, it makes no sense at all why the orb would do anything against him.

This doesn't make one bit of sense. What does knowledge have to do with him consistently blasting Tyrant with the orb and hitting Tyrant across the face with it. Did Thanos even attack Tyrant without using the orb?

Thanos wins.

One other thing about that Morg and Terrax fight was that even though Terrax did well, Morg was able to forcefully take his ax back and was on the verge of decapitating Terrax right when those drones showed up.

Originally posted by carver9
This doesn't make one bit of sense. What does knowledge have to do with him consistently blasting Tyrant with the orb and hitting Tyrant across the face with it. Did Thanos even attack Tyrant without using the orb?
Nope. There was one panel where it looked like he punched Tyrant with the hand that wasn't holding the orb, but in the very next panel that was the hand HOLDING the orb.

Like Rage said, the first panel could have been artist error because in the pages before and after that panel basically all of Thanos' offense involves using that orb.
Originally posted by Sundipped
One other thing about that Morg and Terrax fight was that even though Terrax did well, Morg was able to forcefully take his ax back and was on the verge of decapitating Terrax right when those drones showed up.
Not to mention Morg was just newly resurrected so it's not like he was at the top of his game.

Originally posted by Stoic
If you look at it the other way though, it could easily be said the same of you. I am inclined to believe that it was your own interpretation of events and not what was actually happening. i could also go on to state that for the sake of plot, Terrax did well against Morg that still possessed both power ups. After all Thanos would not struggle even briefly with Terrax. In fact he could one shot a character of his power level. What we have here is poor writing in my honest opinion, and as your points combined with my points shows, were there were simply too many holes to make heads or tails of Morg's true power level.

Since it has become obvious that neither of us will agree due mostly to lack of proof, (Morg having a tough time with Terrax vs Morg doing well against Thanos) we may as well agree to disagree, because there really is no hard evidence to suggest either of us is correct.

Concerning the orb, what you have is Thanos scurrying to regain possession of what you believe was a useless trinket, while others believe that the orb was actually helping to augment Thanos' personal power to a significant degree. I mean why scramble for a gun, if it is useless in a fight? has thanos ever come across as a flake? This is what everyone else see's while you on the other hand do not. So in the event that you continue to disagree, I am hoping that you can at least see why people would draw upon the conclusion that the orb was actually a weapon.

Not really. I go by what is shown on panel in the comics. Since there is no evidence suggesting that Morg still possessed the WOL, we can assume that he simply doesn't have it anymore. I'm not really sure how you can say he still possessed it when it wasn't shown in the comics.

But, fair enough.

Because, and I have said this so many times that I've lost count, the orb contained the left over power of one herald. Are we really suggesting that it's supposed to be significant against a guy who stomped five herald level beings and toppled Galactus? So, no, I cannot for the life of me understand why people would draw upon the conclusion that an orb containing not even the full energies of one herald is supposed to do anything to a Galactus level being.

Maybe now you can see where I'm coming from?

Originally posted by carver9
This doesn't make one bit of sense. What does knowledge have to do with him consistently blasting Tyrant with the orb and hitting Tyrant across the face with it. Did Thanos even attack Tyrant without using the orb?


If I'm not mistaken Thanos wanted more knowledge about Tyrant and he found the orb. I'm not sure what you're trying to say in regards to Thanos attacking Tyrant with the orb. Are you suggesting that it was supposed to have hurt or weakened him? If so, that makes no sense. After all, we can't expect an orb containing not even the full energies of one herald to do anything to a Galactus level being, which is why I am at a loss as to why people think it was so significant.

Originally posted by Cosmicus
Not really. I go by what is shown on panel in the comics. Since there is no evidence suggesting that Morg still possessed the WOL, we can assume that he simply doesn't have it anymore. I'm not really sure how you can say he still possessed it when it wasn't shown in the comics.

Morg has always had the WOL and had never been without since acquiring it. Galactus was only able to resurrect him because of the presence of it in his body and this was what allowed him to survive being ultimate nullified by the Ultimate Nullifier however he was still weakend and was captured by Annihilus.. All this was stated in his Annihilation bio.. Just an FYI

Originally posted by Cosmicus
Not really. I go by what is shown on panel in the comics. Since there is no evidence suggesting that Morg still possessed the WOL, we can assume that he simply doesn't have it anymore. I'm not really sure how you can say he still possessed it when it wasn't shown in the comics.

But, fair enough.

Because, and I have said this so many times that I've lost count, the orb contained the left over power of one herald. Are we really suggesting that it's supposed to be significant against a guy who stomped five herald level beings and toppled Galactus? So, no, I cannot for the life of me understand why people would draw upon the conclusion that an orb containing not even the full energies of one herald is supposed to do anything to a Galactus level being.

Maybe now you can see where I'm coming from?

Hey it looks like you were wrong. Can you see where I'm coming from?

Originally posted by Ambient
Morg has always had the WOL and had never been without since acquiring it. Galactus was only able to resurrect him because of the presence of it in his body and this was what allowed him to survive being ultimate nullified by the Ultimate Nullifier however he was still weakend and was captured by Annihilus.. All this was stated in his Annihilation bio.. Just an FYI

Good shit.

Originally posted by Cosmicus
If I'm not mistaken Thanos wanted more knowledge about Tyrant and he found the orb. I'm not sure what you're trying to say in regards to Thanos attacking Tyrant with the orb. Are you suggesting that it was supposed to have hurt or weakened him? If so, that makes no sense. After all, we can't expect an orb containing not even the full energies of one herald to do anything to a Galactus level being, which is why I am at a loss as to why people think it was so significant.

You're not making one bit of sense and you are avoiding the question. If Thanos didn't need the Orb against Tyrant and he only acquired it as knowledge, why did he use it 100% of the time during the fight? His blasts came from it and he used it as a blunt weapon as well. Explain this to me and stop going in circles. You're either in denial and don't want to admit that you are wrong or you are intentionally doing this to rile people up (and you're doing a good job at it too).

Originally posted by Ambient
Morg has always had the WOL and had never been without since acquiring it. Galactus was only able to resurrect him because of the presence of it in his body and this was what allowed him to survive being ultimate nullified by the Ultimate Nullifier however he was still weakend and was captured by Annihilus.. All this was stated in his Annihilation bio.. Just an FYI


Sure, despite the fact that no where does it acknowledge that he still had it in the comics, this much is evident seeing as how he was matched by Terrax. Bios are second hand sources, you can't really expect them to take the place of what is shown in the comics.

Originally posted by Ambient
Morg has always had the WOL and had never been without since acquiring it. Galactus was only able to resurrect him because of the presence of it in his body and this was what allowed him to survive being ultimate nullified by the Ultimate Nullifier however he was still weakend and was captured by Annihilus.. All this was stated in his Annihilation bio.. Just an FYI
http://s28.postimg.org/thyz90h7d/Wo_L.jpg
Originally posted by Stoic
Good shit.


Nice find Ambient!

Doesn't Annihilus say in the actual story though that Morg was dead iirc.

I wouldn't take handbook that serious, as in some handbooks it says Thanos stalemated Odin

Originally posted by Stoic
Hey it looks like you were wrong. Can you see where I'm coming from?






No, I'm not. And it lookes like you just flat out ignored my entire post.

Originally posted by Insane Titan
Doesn't Annihilus say in the actual story though that Morg was dead iirc.

I wouldn't take handbook that serious, as in some handbooks it says Thanos stalemated Odin
Yes, because they killed him in the process of draining his PC. They didn't do it right, hence why they needed Thanos' expertise. That's how I remember it. Can anyone else confirm?

PS Thanos did technically stalemate Odin. He was on his feet at the end of the fight and the only thing that stopped it was Sif stepping in. No one said he was beating Odin.

Originally posted by zopzop
Yes, because they killed him in the process of draining his PC. They didn't do it right, hence why they needed Thanos' expertise. That's how I remember it. Can anyone else confirm?

PS Thanos did technically stalemate Odin. He was on his feet at the end of the fight and the only thing that stopped it was Sif stepping in. No one said he was beating Odin. iirc they couldn't drain his PC as it died with him so to speak, as Thanos described the PC as/like a life aura there for Morgs body been useless

Originally posted by carver9
You're not making one bit of sense and you are avoiding the question. If Thanos didn't need the Orb against Tyrant and he only acquired it as knowledge, why did he use it 100% of the time during the fight? His blasts came from it and he used it as a blunt weapon as well. Explain this to me and stop going in circles. You're either in denial and don't want to admit that you are wrong or you are intentionally doing this to rile people up (and you're doing a good job at it too).


I'm avoiding the question? I'm surprised, given that I'm pretty sure I directly addressed what you said and it seems that you are avoiding important information regarding the orb. But I'll try again; Why did Thanos constantly use the orb against Tyrant? I don't really have an answer for that. But clearly you are under the impression that because of this, the orb is supposed to be significant against him, no? And I know that this is completely false. Why? Because the orb contained not even the full energies of one herald. We have seen Tyrant stomp five herald level beings and topple even Galactus, but the orb is supposed to be significant? So I guess the left over energies of a herald are a threat to Galactus level beings. Go figure.

This is what has been constantly ignored and avoided for whatever reason, probably because it completely makes the notion that the orb was significant against Tyrant utterly ridiculous and we can't have people admitting they're wrong, can we? Funny.

Originally posted by Cosmicus
I'm avoiding the question? I'm surprised, given that I'm pretty sure I directly addressed what you said and it seems that you are avoiding important information regarding the orb. But I'll try again; Why did Thanos constantly use the orb against Tyrant? I don't really have an answer for that. But clearly you are under the impression that because of this, the orb is supposed to be significant against him, no? And I know that this is completely false. Why? Because the orb contained not even the full energies of one herald. We have seen Tyrant stomp five herald level beings and topple even Galactus, but the orb is supposed to be significant? So I guess the left over energies of a herald are a threat to Galactus level beings. Go figure.

This is what has been constantly ignored and avoided for whatever reason, probably because it completely makes the notion that the orb was significant against Tyrant utterly ridiculous and we can't have people admitting they're wrong, can we? Funny.

So you explained the reason why Thanos was desperately crawling for the orb when he dropped it? Also, provide a scan where it states the Orb would give Thanos knowledge on how to beat Tyrant.

Also, Morg gave Thanos a fight, and when I say fight i mean a good fight, so Thanos using Morg energy added to his own would be beneficial. Hell, any boost would be beneficial and adding someone's powers to yours is a boost/amp. Thanos + Morg power doesn't = Thanos. By the way, can someone provide a scan where it states Morg's energy was in the sphere.

You could say the orb having any energy at all was rectonned as Thanos diagnosed it later and said it contained knowledge and knowledge is power. which contradicts Thanos firing any energy using the orbs power.. yet it kinda seems like it did going by the artwork. So take that as you will. I think it's a good fight if the team works together or if they get any kinda prep they own. IF they don't work as a team they'll lose with Thanos obviously standing last and putting up a decent fight.

Originally posted by Ambient
Morg has always had the WOL and had never been without since acquiring it. Galactus was only able to resurrect him because of the presence of it in his body and this was what allowed him to survive being ultimate nullified by the Ultimate Nullifier however he was still weakend and was captured by Annihilus.. All this was stated in his Annihilation bio.. Just an FYI

http://i1292.photobucket.com/albums/b571/superior100/03673d4e-f849-4b6a-91f1-b8fe9d8cb26f_zps1ec6235b.jpg

http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/Thumbs-up-montage.gif

Originally posted by Insane Titan
I wouldn't take handbook that serious, as in some handbooks it says Thanos stalemated Odin

Everthing concerning the Cosmic Powers Unlimited arc is spot on.

Originally posted by carver9
By the way, can someone provide a scan where it states Morg's energy was in the sphere.

http://s5d4.turboimagehost.com/t1/19168200_catsoup-11.jpg http://s5d4.turboimagehost.com/t1/19168201_catsoup-14.jpg

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
You could say the orb having any energy at all was rectonned as Thanos diagnosed it later and said it contained knowledge and knowledge is power. which contradicts Thanos firing any energy using the orbs power.. yet it kinda seems like it did going by the artwork. So take that as you will.

Forget about the artwork, did you see what was stated ON PANEL in the above scans? These orbs are sources of knowledge AND energy. You can even see energy radiating from it multiple times in the comic.

Originally posted by carver9
So you explained the reason why Thanos was desperately crawling for the orb when he dropped it? Also, provide a scan where it states the Orb would give Thanos knowledge on how to beat Tyrant.

Also, Morg gave Thanos a fight, and when I say fight i mean a good fight, so Thanos using Morg energy added to his own would be beneficial. Hell, any boost would be beneficial and adding someone's powers to yours is a boost/amp. Thanos + Morg power doesn't = Thanos. By the way, can someone provide a scan where it states Morg's energy was in the sphere.


I'm not sure what you're trying to say with this. Thanos planned to steal the orb, so obviously he will try to not let it get away from him. I don't have scans but what Thanos wanted was knowledge on Tyrant. Taking this into account, the orb obviously contained knowledge since Thanos was going to steal it.

I think it's pretty well established that Thanos is much more powerful than the heralds. A minor struggle with Morg when he was matched by Terrax in the same issue doesn't help the notion. Silver Surfer is the most powerful herald and has easily beaten Morg when angry and Thanos is clearly far more powerful than him.

Regarding the other thing you said, a little boy can help me push a heavy object. That doesn't mean his help is going to be significant in any way. The same thing applies here. You can't really expect an orb containing the left over power of one herald to do anything, at all, against someone like Tyrant. So his fight with Tyrant is a durability showing more than anything really.

Handbooks still don't take preference over on panel proof

Originally posted by Insane Titan
Handbooks still don't take preference over on panel proof

It's nothing on panel to dispute Morg having the WoL amp.

Originally posted by Sundipped
http://i1292.photobucket.com/albums/b571/superior100/03673d4e-f849-4b6a-91f1-b8fe9d8cb26f_zps1ec6235b.jpg

http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/Thumbs-up-montage.gif



Everthing concerning the Cosmic Powers Unlimited arc is spot on.



http://s5d4.turboimagehost.com/t1/19168200_catsoup-11.jpg http://s5d4.turboimagehost.com/t1/19168201_catsoup-14.jpg



Forget about the artwork, did you see what was stated ON PANEL in the above scans? These orbs are sources of knowledge AND energy. You can even see energy radiating from it multiple times in the comic.

You didn't POST THE SCAN I was referencing.. after what you posted.. he had the orb hooked up to all kinds of machines and was analyzing it and I believe said it contained Knowledge but Knowledge is power. I can't locate the scan but it exists

Originally posted by Sundipped
It's nothing on panel to dispute Morg having the WoL amp. where did it state Annihilus drained Morgs PC ?

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
You didn't POST THE SCAN I was referencing.. after what you posted.. he had the orb hooked up to all kinds of machines and was analyzing it and I believe said it contained Knowledge but Knowledge is power. I can't locate the scan but it exists

What knowledge did it give Thanos and do you have a scan stating what knowledge it gave him?

Originally posted by carver9
What knowledge did it give Thanos and do you have a scan stating what knowledge it gave him?

Originally posted by quanchi112

Originally posted by carver9
You misunderstood.

Originally posted by quanchi112
You misunderstood.

Thought we was having a laughing contest. What did I misunderstand?

Originally posted by carver9
Thought we was having a laughing contest. What did I misunderstand? If the page says it gave him knowledge then you should know what that means due to the definition of the word knowledge. Did you really expect the writer to lay out detailed plans about the knowledge the orb contained ?

Originally posted by quanchi112
If the page says it gave him knowledge then you should know what that means due to the definition of the word knowledge. Did you really expect the writer to lay out detailed plans about the knowledge the orb contained ?

Why not? It also said it gave him ENERGY as well. We can't ignore that statement, can we Quan?

While Morg was alive he possessed the power cosmic, and he also possessed the water's of life just like it is stated in the handbook entry. Anyone stating otherwise is wrong, and would basically be arguing with a canonical source.

Handbooks are not the end all be all, but can be used to understand what a character possesses in terms of power set. Or should we argue with, or dismiss what they state about how the Hulk, Superman, Thor, or the Silver Surfer's powers work, or what these powers mean and can do? No we can not.

Originally posted by quanchi112
If the page says it gave him knowledge then you should know what that means due to the definition of the word knowledge. Did you really expect the writer to lay out detailed plans about the knowledge the orb contained ?

It also says that it gives Energy. You missed that part.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
You didn't POST THE SCAN I was referencing.. after what you posted.. he had the orb hooked up to all kinds of machines and was analyzing it and I believe said it contained Knowledge but Knowledge is power. I can't locate the scan but it exists

I know what you're talking about but a why do you need to see the scan? I already said it contained knowledge but you seem to be missing the point that the scans I did post have Thanos on panel stating that the orb is full of energy so it's obvious the orb contains both.

Originally posted by Stoic
It also says that it gives Energy. You missed that part. I didn't ignore that part at all. Pay attention. I commented on his refusal to accept the statement with regards to knowledge.

Originally posted by carver9
Why not? It also said it gave him ENERGY as well. We can't ignore that statement, can we Quan? When did I ignore anything ? You are the only one who ignored the clear word knowledge used in the comic.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I didn't ignore that part at all. Pay attention. I commented on his refusal to accept the statement with regards to knowledge.

I never said that you ignored it, but you did not include the energy part is what I was just adding to what you mentioned. This is an important part of the equation.

Originally posted by Stoic
While Morg was alive he possessed the power cosmic, and he also possessed the water's of life just like it is stated in the handbook entry. Anyone stating otherwise is wrong, and would basically be arguing with a canonical source.

Handbooks are not the end all be all, but can be used to understand what a character possesses in terms of power set. Or should we argue with, or dismiss what they state about how the Hulk, Superman, Thor, or the Silver Surfer's powers work, or what these powers mean and can do? No we can not.


Bios and handbooks and the like have always been secondary sources only worth mentioning if they corroborate the on panel evidence in the comics. If there is no context suggesting Morg still possessed the WOL then based on what do we assume he still does?

Originally posted by Insane Titan
where did it state Annihilus drained Morgs PC ?

Who's debating what Annihilus was said to have done? Not me.

Originally posted by quanchi112
When did I ignore anything ? You are the only one who ignored the clear word knowledge used in the comic.

When did i ignore the word 'knowledge' Quan? I asked 'what knowledge did the orb give him'?

Originally posted by Stoic
I never said that you ignored it, but you did not include the energy part is what I was just adding to what you mentioned. This is an important part of the equation. I can respond to a part of a quote. He ignored the knowledge aspect of it and you assumed incorrectly.

Originally posted by carver9
When did i ignore the word 'knowledge' Quan? I asked 'what knowledge did the orb give him'? The comic doesn't lay that out in detail. Just the same as when we find Hulk is holding back. We don't know the percentages in how much he is holding back either. Knowledge means knowledge.

Originally posted by quanchi112
The comic doesn't lay that out in detail. Just the same as when we find Hulk is holding back. We don't know the percentages in how much he is holding back either. Knowledge means knowledge.



Lol...the metaphor you gave was terrible and didn't match what I am asking at all. The word knowledge isn't singular, at all, we need to determine what kind of knowledge it gave Thanos, which is what I am asking. What knowledge did it give him Quan? This is the most retarded argument ever.

Originally posted by Cosmicus
Bios and handbooks and the like have always been secondary sources only worth mentioning if they corroborate the on panel evidence in the comics. If there is no context suggesting Morg still possessed the WOL then based on what do we assume he still does?

It does corroborate the on panel evidence, and can't be ignored because of your opinion of the events that took place in the comic. There is no reason to believe that the WOL was not present within Morg because never once was it stated on panel that he had lost this power, and thus you have no grounds to state that he did not still possess it. All you have is opinion, while the fact remains that according to credible sources he still had the WOL. You're incorrect here just deal with it and move on.

If you have on panel evidence that the WOL was stripped from him, present it, if you can not then it is your opinion which holds no weight here. Perhaps we should seek an official ruling from a Moderator.

Originally posted by carver9
Lol...the metaphor you gave was terrible and didn't match what I am asking at all. The word knowledge isn't singular, at all, we need to determine what kind of knowledge it gave Thanos, which is what I am asking. What knowledge did it give him Quan? This is the most retarded argument ever. facts, information, and skills acquired by a person through experience or education; the theoretical or practical understanding of a subject.


That is the definition. You can't ignore all panel evidence just because you're pouting over it.


The comic doesn't explain specifically just like it doesn't say how much hulk holds back percentage wise.

Great analogy.

@ Stoic

Originally posted by quanchi112
facts, information, and skills acquired by a person through experience or education; the theoretical or practical understanding of a subject.


That is the definition. You can't ignore all panel evidence just because you're pouting over it.


The comic doesn't explain specifically just like it doesn't say how much hulk holds back percentage wise.

Great analogy.



Lol...read your post Quan. Guess what, I just picked up this book and it gave me knowledge.



What would you ask me after that Quan?

Originally posted by Stoic
It does corroborate the on panel evidence, and can't be ignored because of your opinion of the events that took place in the comic. There is no reason to believe that the WOL was not present within Morg because never once was it stated on panel that he had lost this power, and thus you have no grounds to state that he did not still possess it. All you have is opinion, while the fact remains that according to credible sources he still had the WOL. You're incorrect here just deal with it and move on.

If you have on panel evidence that the WOL was stripped from him, present it, if you can not then it is your opinion which holds no weight here. Perhaps we should seek an official ruling from a Moderator.

The Silver Surfer beat Morg after he was resurrected. I don't think that would be possible if Morg still had the WOL. Not sure why this is even a debate.

Originally posted by Dampyre
The Silver Surfer beat Morg after he was resurrected. I don't think that would be possible if Morg still had the WOL. Not sure why this is even a debate.

Surfer beat Morg EASILY. Terrax stalemated him and gave him hell. When he had the WOL he STOMPED a group of Heralds. I would love for someone to explain this to me.

Originally posted by Stoic
It does corroborate the on panel evidence, and can't be ignored because of your opinion of the events that took place in the comic. There is no reason to believe that the WOL was not present within Morg because never once was it stated on panel that he had lost this power, and thus you have no grounds to state that he did not still possess it. All you have is opinion, while the fact remains that according to credible sources he still had the WOL. You're incorrect here just deal with it and move on.

If you have on panel evidence that the WOL was stripped from him, present it, if you can not then it is your opinion which holds no weight here. Perhaps we should seek an official ruling from a Moderator.


It does, does it? Then go ahead and present the on panel evidence that suggests Morg still had it. Your logic that Morg still possessed the WOL despite there being no evidence in the comics, which is what we'ere supposed to go by, to suggest so is just flat out faulty. It's not my opinion, it's what was shown (or in this case not shown) in the comics. Again, bios don't cut it.

Well lets see, there was no on panel evidence from the comics, and the fact that he was matched by Terrax.

Originally posted by carver9
Surfer beat Morg EASILY. Terrax stalemated him and gave him hell. When he had the WOL he STOMPED a group of Heralds. I would love for someone to explain this to me.

Well, I don't necessarily agree here. The Surfer had to take the gloves off to beat Morg. Anything less and he would have lost, IMO. Terrax put up a good fight but was clearly outclassed. Morg was a close second to the Surfer in power.

Originally posted by Dampyre
The Silver Surfer beat Morg after he was resurrected. I don't think that would be possible if Morg still had the WOL. Not sure why this is even a debate.


There could be a reason for this, or several that I don't know of, or fully understand to have happened. Morg may not have had the power cosmic at that period in time, if at all. This is what is known; in their first encounter, Morg defeated the Surfer easily, and he did it while possessing the power cosmic alone. We then later see Galactus remove the power cosmic from him, and the other Heralds killed him, while he only had the WOL.

There were issues of inconsistencies that plagued Morg's, and Tyrant's history due to writer discrepancy, which I stated way back in this same thread. This is something that me and Zop spoke about in a similar thread a of couple years ago. but then there are statements albeit handbook statements supporting the idea that at the end of his life that he still had possession of the WOL. Then there is the possibility of an unexplained retcon that could have happened.

All the same, I can't explain writer error, because I didn't hack up the story in order to do a rush job on Morg's final day in the sun. Everything makes sense up until a certain point in his history, and then.... It was so bad that Terrax give Morg a decent fight, and then Morg turns around and gives Thanos one. It's so bad that I will likely refuse to support anything that has Morg vs anyone after a certain point in his history. Real murky shit.

Originally posted by Cosmicus
It does, does it? Then go ahead and present the on panel evidence that suggests Morg still had it. Your logic that Morg still possessed the WOL despite there being no evidence in the comics, which is what we'ere supposed to go by, to suggest so is just flat out faulty. It's not my opinion, it's what was shown (or in this case not shown) in the comics. Again, bios don't cut it.

Well lets see, there was no on panel evidence from the comics, and the fact that he was matched by Terrax.

Just as there is no evidence of the WOL being taken away from him, but actual proof that the power cosmic was removed from him. All the same the inconsistencies are so large that we may both be correct along the lines. I can't defend against what was not written, or claim more than what was. Like I said, when Morg had the power cosmic, he beat the Surfer badly, and with conviction. When he lost it, the Surfer beat him.I think that the question should be, Did Morg have the power cosmic? Was it returned to him? Why was he able to give Thanos a decent fight, and have a hard time with Terrax? none of his history after the Herald ordeal is contiguous.

Originally posted by Stoic
Just as there is no evidence of the WOL being taken away from him, but actual proof that the power cosmic was removed from him. All the same the inconsistencies are so large that we may both be correct along the lines. I can't defend against what was not written, or claim more than what was. Like I said, when Morg had the power cosmic, he beat the Surfer badly, and with conviction. When he lost it, the Surfer beat him.I think that the question should be, Did Morg have the power cosmic? Was it returned to him? Why was he able to give Thanos a decent fight, and have a hard time with Terrax? none of his history after the Herald ordeal is contiguous.


Me asking you for proof that he still possessed it and you answering with prove that he DIDN'T still possess it is faulty logic.

Wait, what? The Power Cosmic is his standard power, I think you're mixing it up with the WOL. Morg without the WOL was defeated by Silver Surfer. The only possible inconsistency I see is his short fight with Thanos, and come on, it was a minor struggle at best, lets not make it more than it was. But when we take into account that he was matched by Terrax in the same issue, defeated by Silver Surfer, and the fact that his peers have always been inferior to Thanos, kind of makes it hard to swallow the assertion that he had the WOL based on that fight alone, which is also ignoring the fact of there not being any context substantiating it.

Originally posted by carver9
Lol...read your post Quan. Guess what, I just picked up this book and it gave me knowledge.



What would you ask me after that Quan? You would have knowledge as to that book. Thanos gained knowledge with regards to the orb. Do you need people to hold your hands when you read a comic. You don't even raise one valid point. Your debating style says ignorance is bliss. If you can't comprehend the word knowledge then don't read comics.

Originally posted by Stoic
There could be a reason for this, or several that I don't know of, or fully understand to have happened. Morg may not have had the power cosmic at that period in time, if at all. This is what is known; in their first encounter, Morg defeated the Surfer easily, and he did it while possessing the power cosmic alone. We then later see Galactus remove the power cosmic from him, and the other Heralds killed him, while he only had the WOL.

There were issues of inconsistencies that plagued Morg's, and Tyrant's history due to writer discrepancy, which I stated way back in this same thread. This is something that me and Zop spoke about in a similar thread a of couple years ago. but then there are statements albeit handbook statements supporting the idea that at the end of his life that he still had possession of the WOL. Then there is the possibility of an unexplained retcon that could have happened.

All the same, I can't explain writer error, because I didn't hack up the story in order to do a rush job on Morg's final day in the sun. Everything makes sense up until a certain point in his history, and then.... It was so bad that Terrax give Morg a decent fight, and then Morg turns around and gives Thanos one. It's so bad that I will likely refuse to support anything that has Morg vs anyone after a certain point in his history. Real murky shit.

Of course Morg had the Power Cosmic when he fought the Surfer. Do you really think Galactus brought Morg back without the PC? The reason that Morg won the first fight was because the Surfer was holding back. Morg himself even said that his power "was nearly comparable to the Surfer's." Morg was never more powerful than the Surfer until he got the WOL upgrade.

Terrax gave Morg a half-decent tussle, sure. He also did the best against Morg when he had the WOL, matching him for a few panels before going down. No shame in that. I think Morg's showing against Thanos is overrated. It was a very brief tussle. Hell, the Fallen one was able to cause Thanos significant pain.

There was never any doubt in my mind that Morg lost the WOL upgrade after being brought back by Galactus. I didn't think anyone did until reading this thread. Anyway, that's my two cents.

Originally posted by Cosmicus
Me asking you for proof that he still possessed it and you answering with prove that he DIDN'T still possess it is faulty logic.

Wait, what? The Power Cosmic is his standard power, I think you're mixing it up with the WOL. Morg without the WOL was defeated by Silver Surfer. The only possible inconsistency I see is his short fight with Thanos, and come on, it was a minor struggle at best, lets not make it more than it was. But when we take into account that he was matched by Terrax in the same issue, defeated by Silver Surfer, and the fact that his peers have always been inferior to Thanos, kind of makes it hard to swallow the assertion that he had the WOL based on that fight alone, which is also ignoring the fact of there not being any context substantiating it.

Then where is your evidence that the WOL was removed from him? We know for a fact that the power cosmic was removed. Are we in agreement thus far? Yes or no?

Was there a scene that shows Galactus giving him back the power cosmic? Yes or no?

It's like I said, there are a few discrepancies in his history. When he had the power cosmic he easily defeated the Surfer (in their first encounter). Are we in agreement here? Yes or no?

What happened after the Herald Ordeal lost much in terms of consistency. Go ahead, go back and piece together all of the poor plot lines that happened after the Herald Ordeal, and you will see exactly what I mean.

Even Tyrant's history was hacked up by poor writing. So by all means, when or if you choose to go back and look at the poor writing that took place, delve into Tyrant's story as well.

As for Terrax giving Morg a hard time, and Morg giving Thanos a hard time, they are both things that happened, and when compared make no sense. You can try to lesson one, and glorify the other, but it will always remain that they both happened on panel.

Thanos would turn Terrax out in moments if they had an encounter, he was unable to do this to Morg. Are we in agreement with this? yes or no?

So by all means, spit on one, and glorify the other, that is you prerogative after all.

Originally posted by Stoic
Then where is your evidence that the WOL was removed from him? We know for a fact that the power cosmic was removed. Are we in agreement thus far? Yes or no?

Was there a scene that shows Galactus giving him back the power cosmic? Yes or no?

It's like I said, there are a few discrepancies in his history. When he had the power cosmic he easily defeated the Surfer (in their first encounter). Are we in agreement here? Yes or no?

What happened after the Herald Ordeal lost much in terms of consistency. Go ahead, go back and piece together all of the poor plot lines that happened after the Herald Ordeal, and you will see exactly what I mean.

Even Tyrant's history was hacked up by poor writing. So by all means, when or if you choose to go back and look at the poor writing that took place, delve into Tyrant's story as well.

As for Terrax giving Morg a hard time, and Morg giving Thanos a hard time, they are both things that happened, and when compared make no sense. You can try to lesson one, and glorify the other, but it will always remain that they both happened on panel.

Thanos would turn Terrax out in moments if they had an encounter, he was unable to do this to Morg. Are we in agreement with this? yes or no?

So by all means, spit on one, and glorify the other, that is you prerogative after all.


I'm not sure I understand. When Morg was revived he was given back the PC, not the WOL. And my evidence for him not possessing it is the fact that there is no on panel context in the comics stating this after his restoration. Asserting otherwise is your interpretation because nothing of the sort is said in the comics. We are not in agreement.

Yes, Morg got his powers back.

Again, I think you are getting some things mixed up. The PC is Morgs' regular power. Without the WOL he was actually defeated by Silver Surfer.

As for the rest of what you said, I'm not seeing the inconsistencies you keep talking about. It's been well established that Thanos is far more powerful than heralds and the like, Morg certainly is not an exception. Surfer is the most powerful herald and has defeated Morg, Terrax has matched Morg, etc. I could go on, but the fact is that one odd showing where Thanos has a minor struggle against Morg (that's really all it was) doesn't mean much against all the other evidence.

Originally posted by Dampyre
Of course Morg had the Power Cosmic when he fought the Surfer. Do you really think Galactus brought Morg back without the PC? The reason that Morg won the first fight was because the Surfer was holding back. Morg himself even said that his power "was nearly comparable to the Surfer's." Morg was never more powerful than the Surfer until he got the WOL upgrade.

Terrax gave Morg a half-decent tussle, sure. He also did the best against Morg when he had the WOL, matching him for a few panels before going down. No shame in that. I think Morg's showing against Thanos is overrated. It was a very brief tussle. Hell, the Fallen one was able to cause Thanos significant pain.

There was never any doubt in my mind that Morg lost the WOL upgrade after being brought back by Galactus. I didn't think anyone did until reading this thread. Anyway, that's my two cents.

\Wow I completely missed your post somehow. I agree with a lot of what you said, but you're trying to make sense of garbage inconsistent writing. If Morg did not have the WOL, why in the world was Tyrant bent on keeping him, and not the Surfer? There was something different about him that's why. I'm going to say this one thing, it's dangerous to believe in any one thing 100% when it comes to the Morg character, because not only were there inconsistencies between the writers that worked with the charcter, but there were a few times where they actually contradicted themselves as they continued onwards with stories with him in them post Herald Ordeal.

We're so far off of topic at this point that it should be obvious to you that what I am saying is the truth. The inconsistencies have several people torn about Morg's power level alone. The idea of Thanos using the orb to even the odd in his confrontation has become one of the Wonders of the World around this place, and this isn't the only time that this has occurred. So I'm really happy that this may finally be resolved.

Originally posted by Cosmicus
I'm not sure I understand. When Morg was revived he was given back the PC, not the WOL. And my evidence for him not possessing it is the fact that there is no on panel context in the comics stating this after his restoration. Asserting otherwise is your interpretation because nothing of the sort is said in the comics. We are not in agreement.

Yes, Morg got his powers back.

Again, I think you are getting some things mixed up. The PC is Morgs' regular power. Without the WOL he was actually defeated by Silver Surfer.

As for the rest of what you said, I'm not seeing the inconsistencies you keep talking about. It's been well established that Thanos is far more powerful than heralds and the like, Morg certainly is not an exception. Surfer is the most powerful herald and has defeated Morg, Terrax has matched Morg, etc. I could go on, but the fact is that one odd showing where Thanos has a minor struggle against Morg (that's really all it was) doesn't mean much against all the other evidence.

I'm willing to accept the possibility that the WOL was burned out reviving Morg, however the question remains... Where did it go? Was it ever stated on panel? I'm asking because I never read that. If you have herpes before you go to bed at night, and wake up to a new day does it mean that the herpes virus is gone? We saw Galactus remove the power cosmic, was he ever shown on panel giving it back to Morg? Again I'm asking, but this time I'm asking because of the time frame in which I read the books, and may not recall. I'm also pretty certain that you understood exactly what I said, because it was in English not French or some language that you may not understand, or comprehend. in other words I'm not willing to re-write what i did in my previous post on the subject.

Where, and when was it stated that Morg got the power cosmic restored to him, the Water's of life became his regular powers the moment of immersion, it was as much a part of him as the power cosmic.

If Morg was just a mere Herald, Thanos would not have had trouble with him at all, but this is not what was shown on panel. If Morg only possessed the power cosmic Tyrant would not have cared if Galactus took him back, and he would have settled for the Surfer, and told him to pick which one stays, and which goes. Does this seem like an inconsistency to you? There are several people who identify with it being one of many. Like I said above to Dampyre; at this point I don't care who is right, or wrong, I'm happy that this has come up again, because there have been arguments in the past about the discrepancies contained in Morg, and Tyrant's history. Odin winning this is beside the point at this point. If what you are saying is correct, that's fine, even though you will never be 100% correct on this because of all of this contradictions surrounding this subject.

Originally posted by Stoic
I'm willing to accept the possibility that the WOL was burned out reviving Morg, however the question remains... Where did it go? Was it ever stated on panel? I'm asking because I never read that. If you have herpes before you go to bed at night, and wake up to a new day does it mean that the herpes virus is gone? We saw Galactus remove the power cosmic, was he ever shown on panel giving it back to Morg? Again I'm asking, but this time I'm asking because of the time frame in which I read the books, and may not recall. I'm also pretty certain that you understood exactly what I said, because it was in English not French or some language that you may not understand, or comprehend. in other words I'm not willing to re-write what i did in my previous post on the subject.

Where, and when was it stated that Morg got the power cosmic restored to him, the Water's of life became his regular powers the moment of immersion, it was as much a part of him as the power cosmic.

If Morg was just a mere Herald, Thanos would not have had trouble with him at all, but this is not what was shown on panel. If Morg only possessed the power cosmic Tyrant would not have cared if Galactus took him back, and he would have settled for the Surfer, and told him to pick which one stays, and which goes. Does this seem like an inconsistency to you? There are several people who identify with it being one of many. Like I said above to Dampyre; at this point I don't care who is right, or wrong, I'm happy that this has come up again, because there have been arguments in the past about the discrepancies contained in Morg, and Tyrant's history. Odin winning this is beside the point at this point. If what you are saying is correct, that's fine, even though you will never be 100% correct on this because of all of this contradictions surrounding this subject.


Who knows what happened to it. What I do know though is that Morg obviously didn't possess it otherwise the writer would make note of this. I mean, it's a pretty significant amp. If Galactus restored him with it still in his possession then you'd expect there to be some kind of context suggesting so. As for why it didn't specifically mention the PC returning to him, this question doesn't make sense. If Galactus was going to restore Morg, why wouldn't he give him his standard powers back? That would be pointless. The WOL is a completely different story, but his regular power returning to him is to be expected.

I think you are putting far too much stock into this one brief fight. It's not like Morg has shown anything else to suggest he's any different in power from the other heralds. He's also been defeated Surfer and matched by Terrax on panel, so I don't know why you're looking so much into one odd showing.

As for Tyrant keeping Morg, I thought it was obvious he just wanted to spite Galactus, I don't think it was implying that Morg is supposed to be the most powerful.

But what you said at the bottom is fair enough. You can have your own interpretations, doesn't mean me or anyone else has to agree, the same goes for my position on the subject (even though I strongly believe my points corroborate the on panel evidence in the comics. And no, it's not just because it's my own logic).

Originally posted by Cosmicus
Sure, despite the fact that no where does it acknowledge that he still had it in the comics, this much is evident seeing as how he was matched by Terrax. Bios are second hand sources, you can't really expect them to take the place of what is shown in the comics.
But it has - Galactus made mention of it during his resurrection of Morg right after the herald ordeal. So we've got that + the bio, two instances where our point was stated.

How was Terrax recent fight with Morg evidence to losing the WOL? I just don't get that, they're fight kinda went similar when they fought in the Herald Ordeal arc. - Heck you could pretty much make a case, that Morg's power level remained the same from that arc to cosmic powers as is evident in both fights.
Originally posted by zopzop
http://s28.postimg.org/thyz90h7d/Wo_L.jpg



Nice find Ambient!
Thanks.

Originally posted by Cosmicus
Who knows what happened to it. What I do know though is that Morg obviously didn't possess it otherwise the writer would make note of this. I mean, it's a pretty significant amp. If Galactus restored him with it still in his possession then you'd expect there to be some kind of context suggesting so. As for why it didn't specifically mention the PC returning to him, this question doesn't make sense. If Galactus was going to restore Morg, why wouldn't he give him his standard powers back? That would be pointless. The WOL is a completely different story, but his regular power returning to him is to be expected.

I think you are putting far too much stock into this one brief fight. It's not like Morg has shown anything else to suggest he's any different in power from the other heralds. He's also been defeated Surfer and matched by Terrax on panel, so I don't know why you're looking so much into one odd showing.

As for Tyrant keeping Morg, I thought it was obvious he just wanted to spite Galactus, I don't think it was implying that Morg is supposed to be the most powerful.

But what you said at the bottom is fair enough. You can have your own interpretations, doesn't mean me or anyone else has to agree, the same goes for my position on the subject (even though I strongly believe my points corroborate the on panel evidence in the comics. And no, it's not just because it's my own logic).

What I think, is that you place too much stock in writers being competent, and less on many of the discrepancies, and contradictions surrounding the ones that wrote the post Herald Ordeal stories. let's take a look at Terrax for one. It was never explained how Terrax gained the ability to make interstellar jaunts from planet to planet, and there we see him flying off into space looking for Morg's axe. No discrepancies there... Nope. During the fight with Morg vs the Heralds, Terrax was nearly helpless, and would have drifted off into deep space if he wasn't aided.

You want so badly to be correct, and ask what sense does this make, while dancing around other less than contiguous points. What do I mean by that you may wonder? Why did Tyrant want Morg? What did he have that the Silver Surfer didn't? Could it have been his receding hairline? His less than charming ways? Did he want to have butt sex with him? What was it that made him risk a confrontation with Galactus that would have in Galactus' own words lay waste to the galaxy if they had it out? What was so special about Morg the man of the hour? Like I said, the Surfer had the power cosmic as well correct? Yes of course he did, so why not take the Surfer and allow Galactus to get back to searching for planets to devour? Just tell me when you see any contradictions, and poor writing due to lack of proper research. I'll wait.... I hope.

I place as much stock in Morg's confrontation with Thanos, as you do in Morg's confrontation with Terrax, but you don't see me glorifying one over the other. I attribute it to garbage writing, and in that fact, you will find that many of the things that you, and Dampyre pointed out are correct, but there are things that you will never be 100% correct about, because of the inconsistencies. Continuity was off, way off. Don't beat yourself up over it, shit happens.

You were unable to find out if Morg lost the WOL, because it was never written, you aren't able to prove beyond a shadow of doubt that Morg was gifted once more with the PC, because it was not written, or i don't recall it being written. Was it written? Does it make sense? A whole lot of things don't make sense. The garbage that was written didn't just shake the shit out of us, it threw the writers of official handbooks off as well as you witnessed a couple of pages back. Like I said, don't beat yourself up over, you didn't write that trash... Or did you?

Originally posted by Ambient
But it has - Galactus made mention of it during his resurrection of Morg right after the herald ordeal. So we've got that + the bio, two instances where our point was stated.

How was Terrax recent fight with Morg evidence to losing the WOL? I just don't get that, they're fight kinda went similar when they fought in the Herald Ordeal arc. - Heck you could pretty much make a case, that Morg's power level remained the same from that arc to cosmic powers as is evident in both fights.




I invite you to post this evidence, because I do not recall any mention of it. And I see nothing at all in that bio that even mentions the WOL. It also says that Morg is a universal threat which is ludicrous, seriously how is that bio credible at all?

Wasn't Morg with the WOL supposed to be much more powerful than the other heralds? Terrax matching him by himself if Morg had the WOL doesn't make sense.

Originally posted by Cosmicus
Originally posted by Ambient
But it has - Galactus made mention of it during his resurrection of Morg right after the herald ordeal. So we've got that + the bio, two instances where our point was stated.

How was Terrax recent fight with Morg evidence to losing the WOL? I just don't get that, they're fight kinda went similar when they fought in the Herald Ordeal arc. - Heck you could pretty much make a case, that Morg's power level remained the same from that arc to cosmic powers as is evident in both fights.




I invite you to post this evidence, because I do not recall any mention of it. And I see nothing at all in that bio that even mentions the WOL. It also says that Morg is a universal threat which is ludicrous, seriously how is that bio credible at all?

Wasn't Morg with the WOL supposed to be much more powerful than the other heralds? Terrax matching him by himself if Morg had the WOL doesn't make sense.

But then he turns around, and starts matching Thanos in a fight. So either Terrax jumped up to Trans tier, or Thanos dropped down to Herald tier, despite Tyrant saying that he was more than these others. I don't know why you simply don't get it? The entire affair as a whole from the time Morg fought the Surfer, to when he used the UN to sanction Tyrant, was written by different writers that failed to properly research the facts. This has lead to more than one debate on the subject. Some people swear that the orb was an item of power, with good reason, while other swear against it with good reason. I think we may need the Myth Busters to come in on this, and debunk this.

Originally posted by Cosmicus
Originally posted by Ambient
I invite you to post this evidence, because I do not recall any mention of it. And I see nothing at all in that bio that even mentions the WOL. It also says that Morg is a universal threat which is ludicrous, seriously how is that bio credible at all?

Wasn't Morg with the WOL supposed to be much more powerful than the other heralds? Terrax matching him by himself if Morg had the WOL doesn't make sense.
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa312/RRoldz/th_SS_v3_078_07a.jpg

The bases of his resurrection was the WOL, which was used to bring him back to life.
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa312/RRoldz/th_Wo_L.jpg

The absorbed powers of planet bastion = WOL.

Only when serving as herald to Galactus his a Universal treat but a category 1 as individual.

Yes! Morg def. a tier above herald. Terrax matching him momentary does not = same power level. If you recall during the herald ordeal, Terrax match him h2h or axe2axe tell his broke. Then they're 2nd encounter, Tyrant's arc. They fought - h2Axe (Morg with out his axe this time) again Terrax momentary match him but lost. Like I said i don't really understand what you are trying to imply here? Evidence to what? I don't see any discrepancy in they're individual power levels in both fights and that Morg has always been > Terrax.