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Two Dark Lords... fight.

Vitiate.

Originally posted by The Merchant
Vitiate. Are you ever gonna fix your signature?

Tenebrous SLAUGHTERHOUSE

Originally posted by carthage
Tenebrous SLAUGHTERHOUSE
lolnope

Nah, too lazy.

Originally posted by The Merchant
Nah, too lazy.
All it takes is the insertion of one little "["

I think it's become its own trademark on this little corner of the internet.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
lolnope

Lol yeah

Vitiate has no speed feats that rival his, no combat showings to prove he can match his speed, and his TK feats are inferior

Vitiate gets wtfpwned.

Vitiate is Tython tier in speed
And he collapsed a Dark Temple on the brink of death

Originally posted by carthage
Vitiate has no speed feats that rival his
Vitiate hasn't demonstrated much physical speed, but his reaction time is more than enough for him to utilize his force powers in fast paced combat.

Originally posted by carthage
no combat showings to prove he can match his speed
This is the exact same as your first point. Phrasing the same point slightly differently is a poor attempt at fooling someone into thinking you have more of an argument than you actually do.

Originally posted by carthage
and his TK feats are inferior
This is debatable. Vitiate's lightning feats are better though.

Originally posted by carthage
Vitiate gets wtfpwned.
An argument can be made for either one of these guys winning, but suggesting that either of them gets wtfpwned is just stupid.

And Tenebrous is faster than that. Also, why do you think Vitiate is as fast as the Hero? Hell, why does it matter since he doesn't use a lightsaber anyway?

Originally posted by NewGuy01
And Tenebrous is faster than that. Also, why do you think Vitiate is as fast as the Hero? Hell, why does it matter since he doesn't use a lightsaber anyway?
I think he's mainly calling out Carthage's ridiculous idea that he gets blitzed in the first 2 seconds of their fight.

Tenebrous moved faster than Plagueis who appeared as a bolt of red lightning, moved faster than II4D could perceive with advanced photo receptors, and still Plagueis had to call upon the force to keep up with him. Vitiate has nothing even remotely close to that showing, eat a bag of feces if you really think HOT can match either of those speed feats



Vitiate's lightning wont come into play, Tenebrous can either absorb it, block it with a saber, or his speed can just outright blitz him.



Vitiate without prep or amp is featless. Tenebrous annihilates him

You're right.

All Tenebrous has to do is calmly walk up to him, offer him his lightsaber in unholy matrimony and Vitiate will tenderly embrace it and die

Originally posted by carthage
Tenebrous moved faster than Plagueis who appeared as a bolt of red lightning, moved faster than II4D could perceive with advanced photo receptors, and still Plagueis had to call upon the force to keep up with him. Vitiate has nothing even remotely close to that showing, eat a bag of feces if you really think HOT can match either of those speed feats
IIRC Plagueis moved faster than 114D could keep up with years after Tenebrous's death.

I'm not arguing Vitiate is faster by any means, just that his reaction time is sufficient enough for him fend off Tenebrous with his force powers to the point where he wouldn't be blitzed.


Originally posted by carthage
Vitiate's lightning wont come into play
It's his go-to force attack, of course it will come into play.
Originally posted by carthage
Tenebrous can either absorb it
Tenebrous has never to my knowledge demonstrated tutaminus.
Originally posted by carthage
block it with a saber
because that was super easy for Revan and the Strike Team.
(nonsarcastic version: It wtfpwned the Strike Team and stopped Revan dead in his tracks.)
Originally posted by carthage
or his speed can just outright blitz him.
Vitiate's reaction time is sufficient for him to respond with his force powers.

Originally posted by carthage
Vitiate without prep or amp is featless. Tenebrous annihilates him
He's definitely better with prep and an amp, but that does not invalidate his power. He is described as a supremely powerful Sith Lord and has numerous accolades for his power. He is not weak no matter how much you want him to be.

Nobody is getting annihilated here.

His reaction time isn't sufficient, and or HOT's speed tier is a class beneath Tenebrous's to make this musing irrelevant. Plagueis is faster than Hero, and Tenebrous is faster than Plagueis (at that point in time). Vitiate would not be able to react to someone who is faster than HOT.



Irrelevant because Tenebrous can absorb it with his lightsaber



Tenebrous is faster and there is no way to correspond that occasion in a what if scenario with Tenebrous's lightsabor absorbing it.





Feats >> meaningless accolades

Vitiate has nothing to suggest he can even react to Tenebrous, and he is featless without prep so this is a slaughterhouse for Tenebrous. Vitiate gets blitzed and destroyed

Vitiate wins.

Tenebrous with ease

Originally posted by NewGuy01
And Tenebrous is faster than that. Also, why do you think Vitiate is as fast as the Hero? Hell, why does it matter since he doesn't use a lightsaber anyway?
Vitiate stands an inch away from Heros blade but doesn't get speed-blitzed...

Originally posted by NewGuy01
And Tenebrous is faster than that. Also, why do you think Vitiate is as fast as the Hero? Hell, why does it matter since he doesn't use a lightsaber anyway?

I'm not convinced that he is. Vitiate is as fast as the Hero is because he started the fight with the Hero's lightsaber a foot from his face and still put up a good, lengthy fight. So at the least he's capable of dealing with opponents as fast as the Hero in very close quarters and hold them off for a while. Which definitely means he isn't getting blitzed.

None of which is superior to moving faster than arguably the fastest Dark lord of the Sith next to Palpatine

Last time I checked he got slashed in the abdomen.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Last time I checked he got slashed in the abdomen.

Not because the Hero outsped him, because they pushed through his lightning.

Originally posted by carthage
His reaction time isn't sufficient, and or HOT's speed tier is a class beneath Tenebrous's to make this musing irrelevant. Plagueis is faster than Hero, and Tenebrous is faster than Plagueis (at that point in time). Vitiate would not be able to react to someone who is faster than HOT.
Vitiate comfortably reacted to the Hero while weakened in a voice body. Full power Vitiate would certainly be capable of being able to react a speed tier higher, at the very least to the extent to which he would not get blitzed



Originally posted by carthage
Irrelevant because Tenebrous can absorb it with his lightsaber
So could Revan, but it still stopped him in his tracks. Even if someone can block lightning with their lightsaber, it's stopping power can still be used to keep someone at a distance or halt them short of a killing blow.

Originally posted by carthage
Tenebrous is faster and there is no way to correspond that occasion in a what if scenario with Tenebrous's lightsabor absorbing it.
Speed has nothing to do with whether or not you can press forward through a barrage of lightning.




Originally posted by carthage
Feats >> meaningless accolades

Vitiate has nothing to suggest he can even react to Tenebrous, and he is featless without prep so this is a slaughterhouse for Tenebrous. Vitiate gets blitzed and destroyed
This is your problem. Whenever there is any obscurity surrounding a character you hate, you completely dismiss other indications of their power, such as accolades and logic, solely because of your distaste for that character.

Plagueis has evaded and deflected blaster fire from small armies of droids, moved as described as a bolt of red lightning, kept up with a young Palpatine in sparrng matches, and still couldn't keep up with Tenebrous. Again come back when HOT has speed feats that match up with Tenebrous or Plagueis, because constantly reiterating that same stupid point doesn't mean Vitiate can even react to Tenebrous's speed



Vitiate has no off nexus showings to prove his lightning is as powerful. Also you haven't refuted my argument he can even perceive Tenebrous's movements. He wont even see him coming, Dooku maybe, Tenebrous not so much. His lightning is irrelevant come Tenebrous's speed



I dismiss him because he is fodder without a nexus or prep. There is no reason to believe his accolades at all unless he has conditions that benefit him. Prove otherwise with off nexus feats, oh wait Vitshit has none!

Originally posted by carthage
Plagueis has evaded and deflected blaster fire from small armies of droids, moved as described as a bolt of red lightning, kept up with a young Palpatine in sparrng matches, and still couldn't keep up with Tenebrous. Again come back when HOT has speed feats that match up with Tenebrous or Plagueis, because constantly reiterating that same stupid point doesn't mean Vitiate can even react to Tenebrous's speed
Plagueis did this shit after Tenebrous died.

You were the one who said that the Hero was one speed class below Tenebrous. I'm following your line of logic when I say that a full powered Vitiate should be able to react to someone one tier up from the Hero if he could react to the Hero while weakened.

Particularly if he was able to react when the Hero's blade was a foot from his face. And the Hero has blitzed high ranking Sith before, so his speed is not to be underestimated.


Originally posted by carthage
Vitiate has no off nexus showings to prove his lightning is as powerful. Also you haven't refuted my argument he can even perceive Tenebrous's movements. He wont even see him coming, Dooku maybe, Tenebrous not so much. His lightning is irrelevant come Tenebrous's speed
A person can't charge through a lightning storm with speed alone.


Originally posted by carthage
I dismiss him because he is fodder without a nexus or prep. There is no reason to believe his accolades at all unless he has conditions that benefit him. Prove otherwise with off nexus feats, oh wait Vitshit has none!
You dismiss him and his orgy of accolades because you hate him. Calling him Vitshit is proof enough of your irrational distaste for him. You also have zero proof he is fodder.

Irrelevant to the fact that even in a younger stage of his life Plagueis was still unable to keep up with his master. Showcasing Plagueis's speed feats demonstrate both Sith are in a higher speed tier than Vitshit and HOT. They are not mutually exclusive as a determinant to prove that Tenebrous is of a higher order than anyone Vitiate has faced with regards to speed.



A fully powered Vitiate is pure theoretical bullshit. A weakened Vitshit reacting to Tython isn't the same as someone who has moved faster than the 3rd strongest Dark lord of the Sith. Try again.



High ranking fodder Sith of his age, not a penultimate Dark lord. But again its irrelevant as you're using a hypothetical Vitshit, who has no feats of his own/the Vitshit that fought Tython is simply incomparable based on the feats I listed for Plagueis and Tenebrous unless demonstrated otherwise with tangible feats.

How do you figure 3rd strongest?

I called Plagueis third strongest.

Originally posted by carthage
Irrelevant to the fact that even in a younger stage of his life Plagueis was still unable to keep up with his master. Showcasing Plagueis's speed feats demonstrate both Sith are in a higher speed tier than Vitshit and HOT. They are not mutually exclusive as a determinant to prove that Tenebrous is of a higher order than anyone Vitiate has faced with regards to speed.
It is relevant that Plagueis had not yet reached the level of power at which you cite his speed feats in comparison with his barely being able to keep up with Tenebrous. Vitiate has also never had a problem reacting to anyone before.



Originally posted by carthage
A fully powered Vitiate is pure theoretical bullshit. A weakened Vitshit reacting to Tython isn't the same as someone who has moved faster than the 3rd strongest Dark lord of the Sith. Try again.
A fully powered Vitiate is not "theoretical bullshit." Vitiate was in a weakened state when fighting the Hero and was in a voice body.

Plagueis was hardly that high up on the totem poll at the particular time when Tenebrous was faster than him.



Originally posted by carthage
High ranking fodder Sith of his age, not a penultimate Dark lord.
Nobody has ever blitzed a Dark Lord of the Sith to my knowledge.

Originally posted by carthage
But again its irrelevant as you're using a hypothetical Vitshit, who has no feats of his own/the Vitshit that fought Tython is simply incomparable based on the feats I listed for Plagueis and Tenebrous unless demonstrated otherwise with tangible feats.
The feats you have mentioned for Plagueis don't mean shit, as they have taken place after Plagueis's comparison to Tenebrous.

Vitiate still has an orgy of accolades that you are completely choosing to ignore. And you know what Vitiate has done unamped... mind****ed sith, snapped a Sith's neck as a child, and has what is among the five most powerful levels of force lightning in the mythos.

You are alone in your rock bottom ranking of Vitiate. Your hatred has blinded you.

Ok. So Vitiate can now react to a person that can outrun one of the apex Sith lords. Plagueis's speed feats are hardly irrelevant as his showings don't differ all that much from when he was with Tenebrous. He still could cover kilometers on Baldemnic in no time at all, he still could move faster than 114d could perceive (not long off of Tenebrous's death). Vitiate has never fought someone as fast as Tenebrous, and likely couldn't survive.

A fully powered Vitiate is not "theoretical bullshit." Vitiate was in a weakened state when fighting the Hero and was in a voice body.



Plagueis had enough force power to cloud Tenebrous's judgement and help him support cathedral sized boulders about to fall on them. He was a near ascendant Dark lord and even then his feats at the first half of his novel are still better off nexus showings than Vitiate for both him and Tenebrous



Vitiate's accolades are meaningless, enough said. He mind****ed Sith on Korriban ( a nexus), and who cares if he randomly killed some no name character? Nothing proves he's even in the top 10 Sith let alone standing against the arguably 2nd strongest Banite sith

Are you aware that Sith.... other than Vitiate benefit from nexuses too?

Whether it was on Korriban (it wasn't, lawl) is meaningless.

He was still amped.

Also whether or not other Sith have benefited from amps in their showings doesn't mean they are completely devoid of showings off nexus which Vitiate is and proves he is weak and useless

No he wasn't, because he didn't do it on Korriban genius.

And my point was that if he had mindraped a Sith on Korriban, the Sith would be benefiting from the nexus as well. So it would be no different than if Vitiate mindraped him in a Taco Bell, the difference in power wouldn't actually change.

It would've benefited because he has no nexus feats to show that he is capable of doing the same thing against Tenebrous or Jar Jar binks for that matter. (OFF NEXUS)

Boy debating with you causes a headache that not even a hangover could compare to.

Originally posted by carthage
Ok. So Vitiate can now react to a person that can outrun one of the apex Sith lords. Plagueis's speed feats are hardly irrelevant as his showings don't differ all that much from when he was with Tenebrous. He still could cover kilometers on Baldemnic in no time at all, he still could move faster than 114d could perceive (not long off of Tenebrous's death). Vitiate has never fought someone as fast as Tenebrous, and likely couldn't survive.

Plagueis had enough force power to cloud Tenebrous's judgement and help him support cathedral sized boulders about to fall on them. He was a near ascendant Dark lord and even then his feats at the first half of his novel are still better off nexus showings than Vitiate for both him and Tenebrous
Given that a weakened Vitiate had no problem handling the speed of someone who's blade was less than a foot away from his face, someone who, in your own words, was only one speed tier beneath Tenebrous, it is a stupid notion that Vitiate would get blitzed by Tenebrous.



Originally posted by carthage
Vitiate's accolades are meaningless, enough said.
The accolades are established in Canon sources. Your own statements don't hold nearly enough weight to take away their meaning.

Originally posted by carthage
He mind****ed Sith on Korriban ( a nexus)
It wasn't Korriban, and a nexus would have no impact on him mind****ing Sith.

Originally posted by carthage
Nothing proves he's even in the top 10 Sith let alone standing against the arguably 2nd strongest Banite sith
Tenebrous is not the second strongest Banite Sith. Sidious and Plagueis are two examples of people who are greater.

And having accolades as great and many as his is enough to get into the top five.

Sure they are if he can't replicate the same feats he's renowned for off nexus. He hasn't and he likely isn't capable of it, as he has no showings that demonstrate the contrary. Try again



You haven't demonstrated that Vitiate is capable of reacting to someone who has moved faster than Tython. But w/e continue to ignore that



Again prove it. What off nexus feats does he have to suggest he can? ZERO

With Vitiate's space station being above the planet, wouldn't that count, since it's not on a nexus?

Unlikely Newguy showed circumstantial evidence that it was still affected in orbit around Dromund Kaas. The fact that he's never demonstrated anything off another planet that wasn't close to an area influenced by the darkside is telling as well

Neph, I remember you liking Carthage...when he was attacking PT characters.

Also, I'll watch the vid you posted on the other thread later.

Again, just because it hasn't been shown doesn't mean it factually can't happen.

Originally posted by carthage
Sure they are if he can't replicate the same feats he's renowned for off nexus. He hasn't and he likely isn't capable of it, as he has no showings that demonstrate the contrary. Try again
Vitiate's quotes claim him to be extremely powerful. You cannot definitively prove he's not powerful, so the quotes still stand. Your word holds no canon weight to it and thus is not enough to disprove the accolades.



Originally posted by carthage
You haven't demonstrated that Vitiate is capable of reacting to someone who has moved faster than Tython. But w/e continue to ignore that
You yourself claimed that Tenebrous was only one tier higher than HOT in speed. The difference between a weakened voice and a full power Vitiate should be sufficient enough to close the gap to the point where he wouldn't be blitzed by him.



Originally posted by carthage
Again prove it. What off nexus feats does he have to suggest he can? ZERO
The planet he was on when he mind****ed a bunch of Sith wasn't even a nexus.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Neph, I remember you liking Carthage...when he was attacking PT characters.

Also, I'll watch the vid you posted on the other thread later.

I can't possibly imagine he was this bad.

Or you could take my word for it.

Again come back when you have something in the way of off nexus feats for Vitiate. This is getting tiresome and I have no doubt the other forumites are tired of the same back and forth. Vitiate simply has no off nexus showings that put on the same tier of Dooku or Tenebrous. Its as simple as that and all of his accolades correspond to showings when he was on a nexus and boosted.

You know I can't read a single thing you're saying right? It's so refreshing.

Not having to humiliate you in another thread is just as refreshing.

Originally posted by carthage
Again come back when you have something in the way of off nexus feats for Vitiate. This is getting tiresome and I have no doubt the other forumites are tired of the same back and forth. Vitiate simply has no off nexus showings that put on the same tier of Dooku or Tenebrous. Its as simple as that and all of his accolades correspond to showings when he was on a nexus and boosted.
The forumites aren't getting tired of us... they are getting tired of you.

Nobody here agrees with you, a lot of us think you are an ignorant dumbass.

And your word is not enough to debunk quotes from canon sources.

You and Neph are the only two who think so. Coincidentally, you're the two with the biggest fanboyish attractions to each of your respective favorite characters. I contribute more threads than either of you for the short duration I've been on this forum. Again, cannon is only as useful as respective showings. Vitiate has nothing that put him on par with Tenebrous, Dooku, or any higher tier Sith lord. Its time people stop listening to stark raving mad fanboy rants and simply analyze feats.

Originally posted by carthage
You and Neph are the only two who think so. Coincidentally, you're the two with the biggest fanboyish attractions to each of your respective favorite characters. I contribute more threads than either of you for the short duration I've been on this forum. Again, cannon is only as useful as respective showings. Vitiate has nothing that put him on par with Tenebrous, Dooku, or any higher tier Sith lord. Its time people stop listening to stark raving mad fanboy rants and simply analyze feats.
Name one person who legitimately agrees with you that Vitiate is weak then.

Cause I can think of around ten other people who also think you're an ignorant annoying douchebag.

I never said he was weak, I said he wasn't as strong as other Sith lords, he has no showings off nexus that prove he is as good as people think he is, and that he is massively overrated.

He obviously isn't weak based on his nexus showings and grasp of the force. He just doesn't crack the top 20 or even 30 in terms of raw ability.

Originally posted by carthage
He just doesn't crack the top 20 or even 30 in terms of raw ability.
Again... name somebody else who actually agrees with you on this.

Most of Vitiate's feats are against other powerful Sith on nexus, true....but again they benefit from the Nexus too. If you're somehow implying that it helps Vitiate more than the others, how does that make him less powerful?

Lawl, Tempest is the biggest Vitiate-detractor around and even he say Vitiate is in the top 5.

I have him at 2, behind Sidious (Possibly 3, behind Caedus), and I doubt anyone needs to guess where Legend puts him.

so?

Originally posted by carthage
so?
You are alone in your beliefs and your placement of Vitiate is ridiculously low.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
You are alone in your beliefs and your placement of Vitiate is ridiculously low.

Public opinion means jack shit when it comes to his feats, sorry. I could care less where his placement is, he lacks feats off a darkside nexus that put him even in the top 10.

I'm glad vitiate is non canon

Well it looks like I was wrong. there is one person who agrees with Carthage's views.

Though having PT be the only guy who agrees with him really doesn't help his credibility very much.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
You are alone in your beliefs and your placement of Vitiate is ridiculously low.

As correct as you are, I can't help but notice the hypocrisy all over this topic I'm smelling here now that the roles are reversed off of you.

That said, I suppose Darth Tenebrous wins. Vitiate's combat abilities are rather hard to gauge sometimes, considering he's a *pure* Sorcerer.

I'm going with Tenebrous.