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I want to see just how universal this answer is...

Vitiate.

Tough one as Dooku is susceptible to illusions

on neutral ground though Dooku could more than likely wtfpwn him or ragdoll him with TK though

IDK

Originally posted by carthage
on neutral ground though Dooku could more than likely wtfpwn him or ragdoll him with TK though
watch?v=3_8DUsl1Ea4

Uh, Vitiate pwns him.

Yeah doubtful considering he has no good speed feats to suggest he can even perceive Dooku's movements.

But you two fanboys can rationalize it all you want

Originally posted by carthage
Yeah doubtful considering he has no good speed feats to suggest he can even perceive Dooku's movements.
Vitiate doesn't exercise a lot of mobility or physical/melee strikes in combat, so physical speed isn't really something he uses or requires for his fighting style. His reaction speed on the other hand has been demonstrated against Revan and the HOT. He can sure as hell perceive Dooku's movements.

Originally posted by carthage
But you two fanboys can rationalize it all you want
I'm not even that fond of Vitiate.

Originally posted by carthage
Yeah doubtful considering he has no good speed feats to suggest he can even perceive Dooku's movements.

But you two fanboys can rationalize it all you want


Pot.Kettle.Black

Why is everyone using Vitiate in VS threads

I'm a fan of Count Dooku, but Vitiate wins quite easily.

Vitiate ragdolls.

Dooku sucks vitiates dik

GO AWAY

Vitiate hasn't shown to be that good in combat. He does, however, have extremely potent offensive force attacks, and seems to rely on and take them for granted considering he is head and shoulders above most in his era. When he's faced with an opponent who can handle his attacks, though, such as Revan, Vitiate is shown to struggle somewhat in killing his opponent. Considering that Dooku is better than Revan in every way regarding combat, he has a shot at winning, although it's very unlikely. I definitely don't see Vitiate winning with ease. Dooku does have better TK as far as I know. I still don't consider Vitiate's temple-toppling feat as a TK feat any more than I consider Plagueis' death causing a tremor on Coruscant as one. I know Vitiate's power is said to be tied to his spirit, but so was Palpatine's and it still didn't stop energy from being released from his body when it was destroyed on the Death Star.

Vitiate 8/10.

Vitiate showed clear intent to bring the temple down. And as I told you, he wasn't even dead at the time in the lightside ending.

Originally posted by psmith81992
Pot.Kettle.Black

I'm not a fan of Dooku to the extreme. But he has better feats than Vitiate in just about every regard, in spite of what TOR fangirls believe for Vitiate.

On neutral ground Vitiate has no feats to prove he can even see Dooku fighting

Vitiate overpowered 4 powerful Jedi at once, easily. What are you smoking?

Four featless Jedi masters with nowhere near the accolades or force abilities of Dooku.

Originally posted by carthage
I'm not a fan of Dooku to the extreme. But he has better feats than Vitiate in just about every regard, in spite of what TOR fangirls believe for Vitiate.
Please explain how Dooku is Vitiate's superior with the force.

Originally posted by carthage
On neutral ground Vitiate has no feats to prove he can even see Dooku fighting
He was fine enough seeing Revan fighting in their fast paced fight.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Vitiate showed clear intent to bring the temple down. And as I told you, he wasn't even dead at the time in the lightside ending.


Marek showed intent to destroy the imperials on the Death Star, but it wasn't a TK feat he used.

Vitiate was dying, though, and you can clearly see energy being released from his body, which reached the top of the ceiling causing it to collapse. Unless I'm remembering the scene wrong.

Originally posted by carthage
Four featless Jedi masters with nowhere near the accolades or force abilities of Dooku.

Which wouldn't matter even if that were true, since their cumulative power eclipses his.

Dooku was ragdolled by Sidious from across the galaxy. At best Vitiate disposes of him with a modicum more effort.

Call me when they can hold their own against Yoda, can lift multiple obelisks weighing tons, fight faster than can be perceived, withstand blows that are as strong as meteor strikes, and defeat two of the Jedi order's best fighters at once.

Dooku is superior and his TK feats are superior to Vitiate. There is nothing Vitiate has done sans nexus that is comparable to Dooku's feats.

Originally posted by carthage
Call me when they can hold their own against Yoda, can lift multiple obelisks weighing tons, fight faster than can be perceived, withstand blows that are as strong as meteor strikes, and defeat two of the Jedi order's best fighters at once.

Dooku is superior and his TK feats are superior to Vitiate. There is nothing Vitiate has done sans nexus that is comparable to Dooku's feats.

Are you simple, or just incredibly biased? I just said that they don't need to be capable of doing that stuff since there's 4 of them so it's their combined power against Dooku's. And Dooku is not coming out a head in that exchange.

Dooku can't hold his own in a Force contest, we saw that when Sidious ragdolled him and Yoda is every bit Sidious' equal. The Barsen'thor can lift more than Dooku and the Hero is more powerful than she is. Meteor strikes is baby-obvious hyperbole. The Hero defeated Scourge.

Well, that wasn't on neutral ground. The idea of Dooku blitzing a high caliber Sith Lord is retarded though.

None of their feats combined even come close to Dooku, much less people Dooku has defeated in combat lol. Once again they've never fought the tier of fighters Dooku has, and Vitiate has proven nothing by defeating the examples your using. Vitiate sans prep and nexus has nothing even remotely close to Dooku in showings. Try again Nephy



Yoda isn't Sidious equal in the force, lol. Also I already said Vitiate might take one or two rounds based on his illusions which Dooku has demonstrated a susceptibility too. Scourge also has NOWHERE near the feats of Anakin apart from game mechanics and killing hordes of fodder.

To be fair, I don't think we've ever seen him off-nexus lol.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Well, that wasn't on neutral ground. The idea of Dooku blitzing a high caliber Sith Lord is retarded though.

Not as retarded as Vitiate surviving a close encounter with one of the best duelists in SW history in close quarters combat.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
To be fair, I don't think we've ever seen him off-nexus lol.
There is the space station fortress, and his numerous accolades.

I forgot: Why do people think his space station is a nexus?

Originally posted by carthage
Not as retarded as Vitiate surviving a close encounter with one of the best duelists in SW history in close quarters combat.
As somebody already pointed out, he survived the Hero's attack that began when the Hero's lightsaber was a foot from his face. And this was while he was weakened.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Marek showed intent to destroy the imperials on the Death Star, but it wasn't a TK feat he used.

Vitiate was dying, though, and you can clearly see energy being released from his body, which reached the top of the ceiling causing it to collapse. Unless I'm remembering the scene wrong.

Yeah, he used an explosion of energy, which Vitiate didn't.

Instead the temple clearly shook from TK before any energy was released from his body. And the energy wasn't shown affecting the room or being potent enough for that. Watch the scene again:

u-99GeE_xvs

You see chunks fall from the ceiling before any energy appears. And no, it doesn't reach the ceiling.

Vitiate wasn't dying in the lightside ending. The HoT says they'll take him to Coruscant to stand trial, so his wounds were obviously nonfatal.

Well for one, it's in orbit of Dromund Kaas, one of the strongest of any Dark Side Nexus. Secondly, it's oozing some kind of red aura mist stuff, I don't trust it. Thirdly, it's where Vitiate is. Finally, it's core was built by the Rakata--And they're infamous for making Nexusy Devicees.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
As somebody already pointed out, he survived the Hero's attack that began when the Hero's lightsaber was a foot from his face. And this was while he was weakened.

Weakened, and within an immensely strong concentration of the Dark Side. Also, in the canonical choice Scourge says you've given Vitiate time to recover his strength.

As part of a strike team ala how Revan or Tythy did, he'd be useful, but on his own? That's not happening.

Originally posted by carthage
None of their feats combined even come close to Dooku, much less people Dooku has defeated in combat lol. Once again they've never fought the tier of fighters Dooku has, and Vitiate has proven nothing by defeating the examples your using. Vitiate sans prep and nexus has nothing even remotely close to Dooku in showings. Try again Nephy.

Oh ok, so you're just stupid and don't understand the meaning of the words "cumulative" or "combined." I'll put it in baby language so you understand better:

Dooku's power = 6

Even if the Strike Team member's are only 3's in power each, theres 4 of them.

3 x 4 = 12.

They would still be twice as powerful as him added together.

Originally posted by carthage
Yoda isn't Sidious equal in the force, lol. Also I already said Vitiate might take one or two rounds based on his illusions which Dooku has demonstrated a susceptibility too. Scourge also has NOWHERE near the feats of Anakin apart from game mechanics and killing hordes of fodder.

Cool story bro, but I'm pretty sure it's directly stated that Yoda and Sidious are equals in the Force in a source and well, the movie.

Against someone with AoE attacks as powerful as Vitiate's, the advantage of fighting in a group is void. A singular, powerful entity like the Act III Hero fared a lot better than the five elite Jedi in Act II did.

Even if the Hero is superior to Vitiate in one on one combat, he still probably couldn't top that strike team that Vitiate demolished.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Well for one, it's in orbit of Dromund Kaas, one of the strongest of any Dark Side Nexus. Secondly, it's oozing some kind of red aura mist stuff, I don't trust it. Thirdly, it's where Vitiate is.

Oh ok, so you're just stupid and don't understand the meaning of the words "cumulative" or "combined." I'll put it in baby language so you understand better:

Dooku's power = 6



Feats >your pitifiul analogies. Come back again when they've actually done something other than lose to Vitshit in orbit around a darkside nexus. Nice try Neph.

Originally posted by carthage
Yeah doubtful considering he has no good speed feats to suggest he can even perceive Dooku's movements.

But you two fanboys can rationalize it all you want

dude please stop.

That's not red mist coming out of it, it's just general space dust or whatever.

Yep. And why assume it's a nexus outside of its atmosphere? I don't even think Malachor 5 or Nathema had those type of effects.

Because Vitiate has never demonstrated any feats at all without being in close proximity to any area or place deep in darkside energy

He is useless without a nexus, unless otherwise demonstrated

Originally posted by carthage
Oh ok, so you're just stupid and don't understand the meaning of the words "cumulative" or "combined." I'll put it in baby language so you understand better:

Dooku's power = 6



Feats >your pitifiul analogies. Come back again when they've actually done something other than lose to Vitshit in orbit around a darkside nexus. Nice try Neph.

I wish I could say this was a nice try, but lawl. Good work with the quotation bro.

They're among the strongest Jedi of the era. Leeha managed to fight through the balk of Imperial Guards by herself, Soderu was the greatest Jedi in his era, Tol Braga fought a DC member for 3 days and the Hero is the strongest Jedi alive yet Vitiate still toasted them. Come back to me when Dooku even perceives such a feat as possible.

Again they're all featless and even fall short of the accomplishments of all of the folk Dooku has wasted in combat.

Though leave it to a TOR fanboy to perceive that random game characters are worth as much as Anakin, Obi wan, Ventress, Savage, and others in terms of feats, accomplishments, and showings in general. . The fact that their collective "power" may be more than Dooku is simple theoretical bullshit. Considering their showings are limited to being fodder for a nexus enhanced Vitshit

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Yep. And why assume it's a nexus outside of its atmosphere? I don't even think Malachor 5 or Nathema had those type of effects.

They assume it because they want to continue lowballing Vitiate. No other reason.

At least the first guy to bring it up had the intelligence and understanding to suggest it because of the rakatan designs used in the station.

Just like you continue to pull shit out of your ass regarding theoretical power levels for four featless fodder Jedi .

Originally posted by carthage
Again they're all featless and even fall short of the accomplishments of all of the folk Dooku has wasted in combat.

Though leave it to a TOR fanboy to perceive that random game characters are worth as much as Anakin, Obi wan, Ventress, Savage, and others in terms of feats, accomplishments, and showings in general. . The fact that their collective "power" may be more than Dooku is simple theoretical bullshit. Considering their showings are limited to being fodder for a nexus enhanced Vitshit

Originally posted by carthage
Just like you continue to pull shit out of your ass regarding theoretical power levels for four featless fodder Jedi .

I'm not even going to bother dignifying this trash any longer. Keep up this attitude and I'll just add you to my ignore list. I really won't shed a tear over it as you are one of the most biased and willfully ignorant posters here.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I'm not even going to bother dignifying this trash any longer. Keep up this attitude and I'll just add you to my ignore list. I really won't shed a tear over it as you are one of the most biased and willfully ignorant posters here.
He's honestly worse than PTforthewin by this point.

He's already on my ignore list.

Biased in what? That I challenge the fact that Vitiate bereft of any of his numerous advantages he utilized to kill featless/weaker opponents can't stand against a canonically superior fighter on neutral ground? Ok.

Had Vitiate demonstrated any significant showings off of a nexus, he'd win by virtue of them being of a higher magnitude than Dooku's showings. He hasn't and you're persistent deflection of my points and constant reiterations of nexus feats prove he can't. I don't expect a response because its simply something you'e incapable of demonstrating without trite sarcasm

Originally posted by Nephthys
I'm not even going to bother dignifying this trash any longer. Keep up this attitude and I'll just add you to my ignore list. I really won't shed a tear over it as you are one of the most biased and willfully ignorant posters here.

Seriously I want to think that he is trolling even though he is not so that I can move on.

Originally posted by carthage
Biased in what?

You call him Vitshit ffs

Originally posted by carthage
Biased in what? That I challenge the fact that Vitiate bereft of any of his numerous advantages he utilized to kill featless/weaker opponents can't stand against a canonically superior fighter on neutral ground? Ok.

Had Vitiate demonstrated any significant showings off of a nexus, he'd win by virtue of them being of a higher magnitude than Dooku's showings. He hasn't and you're persistent deflection of my points and constant reiterations of nexus feats prove he can't. I don't expect a response because its simply something you'e incapable of demonstrating without trite sarcasm

No, you shouldn't expect a response because you're not worth it at this point. I can reply just fine without sarcasm. I'm being totally sincere when I say that I simply find you too small and stupid to bother with.

Its an insult not an admission of bias. I'm simply reiterating the fact that he has no showings off nexus that prove he is a superior force user to Dooku. That's all

On neutral ground he's dead simple as that

Originally posted by Nephthys
No, you shouldn't expect a response because you're not worth it at this point. I can reply just fine without sarcasm. I'm being totally sincere when I say that I simply find you too small and stupid to bother with.

Which is why you've dismally failed to show any of Vitiate's feats sans nexus and or prove a point that he can stand with him on neutral ground.

Just because we don't see it doesn't mean he couldn't replicate his abilities without a nexus. You're trying to pass off the fact that is hasn't been shown as proof that it isn't possible.

You've said that George Lucas should eat a stick of dynamite because Vitiate exists. You obviously hate him very much.

I hate Lucas not Vitiate. Its not Vitiate's fault he is a terribly designed character.

Why not hate both? *mexican music plays*

Originally posted by carthage
Call me when they can hold their own against Yoda, can lift multiple obelisks weighing tons, fight faster than can be perceived, withstand blows that are as strong as meteor strikes, and defeat two of the Jedi order's best fighters at once.

Dooku is superior and his TK feats are superior to Vitiate. There is nothing Vitiate has done sans nexus that is comparable to Dooku's feats. if by hold his own against Yoda u mean he ran away twice, once while on a nexus then yes he held his own, and if by withstand the meteor like blows u mean he got destroyed by them and depleted his entire force reserves then yes he withstood them. Also when u said he defeated two of the orders best fighters at once were u referring to tcw when he fought anakin and obi wan separately or rots when anakin killed him?

Still better than anything Vitiate has ever done off nexus

Originally posted by carthage
Still better than anything Vitiate has ever done off nexus my bad dude. I didn't mean to give u the impression that I felt one way or the other about vitate vs dooku. I was just giving a few examples of how weak ur points r and how they lack any actual substance.

Sry again if u confused my mocking u with me taking a side.

Its ok. Once again no one has yet to refute my point Vitiate without prep, nexus, and or special conditions/proximity to a darkside nexus is featless.

As this is a contest on neutral ground he loses by virtue of having no speed feats that he's demonstrated off nexus to compare to Dooku.

Vitiate.

Originally posted by carthage
Its ok. Once again no one has yet to refute my point Vitiate without prep, nexus, and or special conditions/proximity to a darkside nexus is featless.

As this is a contest on neutral ground he loses by virtue of having no speed feats that he's demonstrated off nexus to compare to Dooku.
Being in proximity to a Nexus does not completely invalidate somebody's feats. If a person isn't directly tapping into a nexus, then they are still undoubtedly the primary source of their power, which means the majority of the power used is still that character's own internal power.

You have yet to successfully refute Vitiate's accolades. As it stands, Vitiate is supremely powerful in the dark side, an all-powerful sith, and he is one of the few Sith to receive the "most powerful" accolade.

A weakened Vitiate once again reacted to the HoT at almost point blank proximity and survived. And Tyranus is not too much faster than the HoT. Given his demonstrated telepathic talents, it's clear that his mastery of the pneuma is highly advanced, and with the pneuma encompassing mind and consciousness, Vitiate is almost certainly mentally capable of reacting to Dooku.

And what with his recent possession, what proof do you have that Dooku would be able to hold out against Vitiate's mental domination.

Dooku is faster than the HoT?

Lol ok.

HoT is only a game mechanic boy

Originally posted by Nephthys
Dooku is faster than the HoT?

Lol ok.
I was going off of the best case scenario for Tyranus there.

Even if Carthage makes the argument that Tyranus is faster, it wouldn't be to a significant extent.

Dooku is faster then HoT, HoT IS A GAME MECHANIC

Originally posted by Emperordmb
I was going off of the best case scenario for Tyranus there.

Even if Carthage makes the argument that Tyranus is faster, it wouldn't be to a significant extent.

Why are you still talking to him?

Whats so good about vitiate? Mind****ing Tol Braga up the ass doggy style? Mindblow jobing the game mechanic HoT?

Originally posted by Nephthys
Dooku is faster than the HoT?

What suggests that he's not?

Jedi Dooku > HoT

Originally posted by NewGuy01
What suggests that he's not?

Blitzing Sith Warriors. Plus you know, being the best warrior of the era.

How is blitzing fodder a good feat?

Stop talking to me, you're on my Ignore list.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Plus you know, being the best warrior of the era.

What does that have to do with him being faster than Dooku?

There are other characters in the era approaching Dooku in speed, whom the Hero is above.

And I didn't say faster, don't strawman me.

I'm not sure who you're talking about. Dooku has fought invisibly fast, produced afterimages behind his blade, and he's faster than Kenobi--whom has a plethora of great speed feats.

Pick a few of the best fighters in Swtor. The Hero is the best of them all. Yeah, and I don't consider any of that as being above blitzing Sith Warriors.

In close quarters Dooku decimates, but if the fight start with a considerable distance between them, Vitiate has the chance to overwhelm Dooku with his force abilities.

Maybe again Dooku has shown a susceptibility to illusions. Doubt Vitiate would get the chance to do that a majority of the time though

The Hero of Tython didn't decimate in close quarters. Dooku won't.

Dooku is the superior duelist to HoT IMHO.

Originally posted by Nephthys
The Hero of Tython didn't decimate in close quarters. Dooku won't.

Yeah, because Vitiate can magically deflect a saber strike from someone who fights faster than can be perceived. Lol. We've all seen how good Vitiate is when he comes up close to a lightsaber, he dies.

Originally posted by Stigma
Dooku is the superior duelist to HoT IMHO.

Yeah but he isn't though.

Sure he is. Prove otherwise with opponents who actually have feats on par with defeating Anakin, Obi Wan, Tholme, Sora Bulq, and stalemating Yoda. Ohhh wait you can't!

Originally posted by carthage
Sure he is. Prove otherwise with opponents who actually have feats on par with defeating Anakin, Obi Wan, Tholme, Sora Bulq, and stalemating Yoda. Ohhh wait you can't!
I'm not sure about "stalemating Yoda" but other than that seems legit

Dooku seems also to be faster and is described numerous times as a legendary swordsman, absolute master of Makashi.
No such accolodate for HoT though.

The Hero is described as a legendary swordsman actually.

Yeah, I wouldn't expect any less of the Hero. Obi-Wan Kenobi was a legendary swordsman too, though.

Seriously?

Emperor Vitiate will utterly destroy Dooku. This is not even a battle for the former.

Originally posted by carthage
Because Vitiate has never demonstrated any feats at all without being in close proximity to any area or place deep in darkside energy

He is useless without a nexus, unless otherwise demonstrated


Prove that Emperor Vitiate benefitted from regions strong in the dark side.

Originally posted by carthage
Biased in what? That I challenge the fact that Vitiate bereft of any of his numerous advantages he utilized to kill featless/weaker opponents can't stand against a canonically superior fighter on neutral ground? Ok.
Canonically superior fighter? You need to get your head examined.

Originally posted by carthage
Had Vitiate demonstrated any significant showings off of a nexus, he'd win by virtue of them being of a higher magnitude than Dooku's showings. He hasn't and you're persistent deflection of my points and constant reiterations of nexus feats prove he can't. I don't expect a response because its simply something you'e incapable of demonstrating without trite sarcasm
Emperor Vitiate have controlled thousands of Sith Lords, some much bigger threats then Dooku. By virtue of this achievement alone, Emperor Vitiate is on a whole new level in comparison to Dooku.


Emperor Vitiate wasn't present on the frontlines but his minions were and they were absolutely deadly and every bit as impressive as Dooku or even more.

Just look at the example of Exal Kressh: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=707012

You don't compare Dooku with Emperor Vitiate at all. Never.

Yeah... Vitiate takes this one rather solidly.

On neutral ground? Based on what?

Lol

Originally posted by carthage
On neutral ground? Based on what?
Superior force power and Dooku's relative lack of physical power.

Dooku has withstood massive blows of force from Anakin whose torn spider droids apart and broken durasteel. This is a greater feat than Vitiate whose never been in a serious lightsaber duel

His force power is of unproven strength off nexus.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Superior force power and Dooku's relative lack of physical power.

He doesn't use his strength to attack, but he's casually held off both Obi-Wan and Anakin in a saber lock with one arm. Force-augmentation.

Originally posted by carthage
Dooku has withstood massive blows of force from Anakin whose torn spider droids apart and broken durasteel.
Reread Anakin and Dooku's final duel. The good count was being completely overwhelmed by Anakin's strength.

Dooku hasn't demonstrated the offensive physical strength to suggest that he's capable of defending against or powering through Vitiate's FLS, or the power blows to suggest that he could mortally wound Vitiate.

Originally posted by carthage
This is a greater feat than Vitiate whose never been in a serious lightsaber duel
Vitiate isn't a duelist, but he can certainly fend Dooku off with the force.

Originally posted by carthage
His force power is of unproven strength off nexus.
You mean aside from the several top tier accolades he has, and the fact that he was able to dominate a Sith Lord with the force off nexus as a teenager before the Nathema ritual?

Does anyone honestly think this is an actual fight?

Vitiate is an almost demigod-like figure. He is practically an avatar of the dark side itself. Dooku is an insect to him. He would utterly crush Dooku without even needing to stand up from his throne, just like with Revan and Malek.

He's not a strength based fighter, and I didn't make that claim. I said his feat holding them back was a greater strength feat than Vitiate has ever displayed.



Vitiate's FL has no feats off nexus to suggest Vitiate couldn't absorb it with a saber. Also its irrelevant whether or not he has the power to mortally wound Vitiate, as a Makashi fighter he focuses on stabs and quick jabs not power blows.



Prove it with off nexus feats, then



Am I supposed to be impressed that he dominated some random mook in an off screen feat? Where is the proof he can dominate someone of Dooku's caliber off a nexus? His Nathema ritual is irrelevant, he required immense prep to perform that feat.

Originally posted by chilled monkey
. He would utterly crush Dooku without even needing to stand up from his throne, just like with Revan and Malek.
Well, I wouldn't be so sure. The second time Revan did put Vitiate on his ass.

Dooku is the superior duelist by far, Vitiate is the superior force user. However, without prep and off nexus (neutral ground) Dooku has a good chance at taking Vitiate down.

Originally posted by carthage
Dooku has withstood massive blows of force from Anakin whose torn spider droids apart and broken durasteel. This is a greater feat than Vitiate whose never been in a serious lightsaber duel