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Battle takes place on Pydyr.



Sabers

Force

All Out

Not this topic again damn it.

I have no idea who wins.

I'd probably lean with Caedus, but Darth Plagueis has a pretty good shot here as well.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Because he's just that good.

He's strong enough to punch through the armored torsos of Maladians, and his kick sent a Zabrak flying clear across a cabin, snapping his spine, and bursting his arteries.

He's fast enough that 11-4D couldn't detect his movements, and 11-4D was a high-end droid designed to track and record blaster bolts. He also noted that during his battle with Venamis, all an onlooker would see is two streaks of red lightning flashing through the forest.

His telekinesis is strong enough that his waves carry enough force to rip apart targets on a molecular level, blowing a squad of Maladians into invisibly small pieces with powerful shoves. (Investigators believed that the Maladians were killed by heavy explosives after the fact.) He also casually ragdolled Darth Sidious while the latter was still an apprentice.

As for other applications of the Force, his Force Lightning was powerful enough to turn it's target's bones into dust, and his FLS was of great enough magnitude to light up an entire landscape. He can also increase his own power for short periods by activating his own Midichlorians to their fullest potential, or by increasing the count held in his body.

He's not lacking in skill, either. Darth Tenebrous references Plagueis as a master duelist despite his distaste for the arts, and let's not forget that Darth Venamis--whom not only was Plagueis was able to defeat before his peak, but also was one of the most unpredictable fighters I can recall--was himself a master duelist of great enough calibre to switch and mix lightsaber styles and techniques while in the midst of combat. Despite having been trained specifically to counter Plagueis's style of combat, he was still bested.

Not only are his combat abilities magnificent, but he's also one of the hardest opponents to kill. His skin's force-enhanced toughness alone was compared to stone, the claws and teeth of two Kaleesh unable to even penetrate his skin, and with Midichlorian Manipulation he was granted similar abilities to Dark Transfer in the sense that he can bring beings back from the brink of death and efficiently heal even dangerous injuries. If all else fails, he also can perform cardioversions through the Force on any of his 3 hearts, and thus can control his own blood output and extend his life to continue battle despite having grievous wounds.

Plagueis would also supposedly have bested Darth Sidious had he challenged him to combat in TPM rather than murdering him underhandedly, and that speaks for itself. He's just top tier, I would agree with Carthage's placement of him--He's probably #3, or possibly even #2.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
I'd probably lean with Caedus, but Darth Plagueis has a pretty good shot here as well.



That post of yours gave me the idea. I had Caedus as #3, but the more I hear about Plagueis, the more I'm intrigued. Carthage, I'm sorry this topic annoys you. I'm just trying to make decent fights.

I'm going with Plagueis here in a good fight.

Yeah, In my opinion Darth Plagueis and Darth Caedus are spots #2 and #3 in terms of combat ability of the known Sith, though I go back and forth on which one is superior.

They seem equally fast, though Plagueis is probably a bit stronger. They both have insane pain tolerance and endurance, but because of his healing abilities and control of cardiovascular functions I'd give that to Plagueis.

I'd definitely rate Jacen as the more skilled swordsman of the two, which is probably his most prominent edge over Plagueis. They seem pretty close in term of telekinetic strength (Caedus casually moved a 40x20 meter cruiser, and has often been portrayed by the author in direct parallel to Luke.) but Plagueis's Force Lightning is notably superior, though Caedus's is no joke either.

Their more esoteric abilities probably wouldn't come into play either. (Like Jacen's ability to flow-walk, or Plagueis's ability to manipulate electronics.) So ultimately it's pretty hard to determine who's the greater of these two, since both have some advantages over the other.

However, Caedus does have the infinitely badass feat of deflecting turbolaser canonfire with his bare hand though, and Plagueis does have a weakness in his mask in a Plo Koon-esque fashion. So I'll give it to him lol.

Yeah, the turbolaser tanking is pretty beastly, but I could see Plagueis using his ability to manipulate machines to short out Caedus' lightsaber, lol.

Either way, it looks like #s 1, 2, and 3 got to Sidious and some order of Plagueis and Caedus. I like that alot more than Vitiate being anywhere from 1-3. It annoys the crap out of me that Bioware designed an imitation of Sidious for a game, yet he's there and his abilities are documented.

I've actually never thought of it being used that way, that's an excellent point... Why the **** has no one ever done this?

I mean, there aren't many users of Electronic Manipulation, but Obi-Wan was capable of it--He even used it to short out Anakin's prosthetic hand at some point during the RotS duel. So... Why didn't he do this? Good observation lol.



Yeah, that's where they all fit in in my book. Bane during the time he was encrusted by the symbiotic Orbalisks is also up there, probably #4 or #5.



Vitiate has an immense wealth power and knowledge, and through his Sith Alchemies and Sorceries, he was able to come closer than any Sith preceding him to true immortality. However, his capabilities in combat are not a primary focus of his, and thus I don't think he would be able to take the lead over those three.

He still gets by as a top tier, though, due to his sheer dominating presence as a Force user. He doesn't have much to offer in terms of close quarters combat, however, so opponents that are powerful enough to counter his ranged assaults and get up close will likely overcome him, as was the case with the Hero of Tython.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
I've actually never thought of it being used that way, that's an excellent point... Why the **** has no one ever done this?

I mean, there aren't many users of Electronic Manipulation, but Obi-Wan was capable of it--He even used it to short out Anakin's prosthetic hand at some point during the RotS duel. So... Why didn't he do this? Good observation lol.

Thanks. When I read that in the book, I literally shouted, "You don't go for the hand, you go for what the hand's holding!". Looking back, maybe I shouldn't have gone to the park that day. No kids, but alot of very wierd looks...

Originally posted by NewGuy01
I've actually never thought of it being used that way, that's an excellent point... Why the **** has no one ever done this? the only example I can think of off the top of my head is lomi plo using the force to drain everyone's sabers during the dark nest trilogy. It was pretty much her go to move.

Plagueis imo. Caedus has some powerful feats but that doesn't translate into powerful combat abilities. His lightning sucks, he's never overpowered anyone notable with TK or used it in combat in an impressive way and his slew of esoteric force powers don't really help him much. His feats make him a high tier but not on par with the guy who atomised a wave of assassins while wounded.

Plagueis is likewise insanely powerful, fast, strong and skilled in lightsaber combat. And even if Caedus is better than he is Plagueis could do the same trick he did against Venamis.

I don't know the source, but I heard from somewhere that at one point his lightning had charred some mook black and mutated his flesh, so I wouldn't say it sucks.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
I don't know the source, but I heard from somewhere that at one point his lightning had charred some mook black and mutated his flesh, so I wouldn't say it sucks.
True, but it's not Sidious/Vitaite/Bane/Plagueis level.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
I don't know the source, but I heard from somewhere that at one point his lightning had charred some mook black and mutated his flesh, so I wouldn't say it sucks.

Wasn't that when he went berserk during the Vong war? It's not standard for him.

He has no standard, though. He's only used it twice that I can recall.

Exactly.

I don't see how that sums up your point.

He has no feats other than one time when he was in a berserk state and that one time he hit Jaina with it. So his lightning sucks.

I don't see how you'd infer that. Force Lightning has a vastly different effect on non-force sensitives and force users, especially powerful ones like Jaina.

Dooku's lightning can instantly kill a dozen Nightbrothers, but AotC Anakin was able to take it without any serious damage.

Palpatine's lightning can completely incinerate groups on contact, but Yoda was able to handle being hit with it on two occasions.

The fact that he KO'd one of the most powerful holders of the Skywalker bloodline with a single burst of lightning is no less impressive than completely mutilating and burning a non-force sensitive with FL, I don't see any discrepancy.

Because they can blunt the damage with force barriers and resistance. Jacen had his hands directly on her when he shocked her though, so it's unclear whether she could actually have resisted the attack.

Also, Jaina is only a moderately powerful Jedi Master.

What? Jaina was a baws.

IMHO Caedus takes this narrowly, 6/10.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
What? Jaina was a baws.

Jaina is the lamest Jedi ever.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
What? Jaina was a baws.

"Oh my, who should I date? This is the entirety of the pitiful excuse for a character I have: Which guy I'm gonna ****. What a totally badass and not at all sexist character I am. Also I got beat up by Mandalorians because Karen Travis is a sociopath. SW literature has such brilliantly written female characters."

She's also crap in terms of combat ability.

Well, Travis is the king of Mandalorian wank, that's hardly Jaina's fault.

She's the combat equal of anyone in the Order. yes

She has nothing supporting that.

Also Luke.

Luke wasn't technically apart of the Order when that accolade happened iirc. Exiled. Remember?

I don't read those shitty books.

Luke skywalker IS darth krayt

Originally posted by Nephthys
I don't read those shitty books.
Those were my favorite Star Wars novels out of the 300 I own ...
Plagueis' was the worst by *far*.

Hey ant revan sucks

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Those were my favorite Star Wars novels out of the 300 I own ...
Plagueis' was the worst by *far*.


I actually preferred the NJO books to anything that came after.

My favorite eras where the rise of the empire era, NJO era, rebellion era, and legacy era

I was never a fan of the Legacy comics, and I thought it was a little weak to carry over a Jedi from the Clone War era to be the leader of a resurgent Sith faction. It kind of gives the impression that there's no point in reading any more books that take place beforehand. When NJO ended, you get the feeling that there will finally be a lasting peace, albeit with a rebuilding period. After Legacy came out, everything new that happened in Luke's era loses some of it's importance, when you realize Luke's Jedi Order is doomed, regardless.

I think it's good to know that some CW jedi are still alive and active by that time, like K'hruk

What I hated about the new jedi order was that they are aloud to wear whatever they want, it kind of ruins the jedi as peacekeeping warrior monks.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Well, Travis is the king of Mandalorian wank, that's hardly Jaina's fault.

Sorry to but shouldn't that be "the QUEEN of Mandalorian ****"?

Originally posted by Nephthys
WI don't read those shitty books.

You should read the ones written by Aaron Allston (RIP). They are awesome.

He was an incredible writer.

Neph I love you, but our opinion on Jaina is wrong and I hate you