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What different areas and alignments do you view the force in?

Big people

I view the force as having three non-alignment related areas. Rather than viewing these areas as the living force and the unifying force, I prefer to think of the forces areas as the aperion, the anima, and the pneuma.

The aperion encompasses the purely physical aspects of the force. space, matter, and time.

The anima encompasses the aspects of the force relating to life.

The pneuma encompasses the aspects of the force relating to the mind and conscious.

I view this perspective as a superior one to the living/unifying force perspective. This concept comes from Plagueis's own research and discoveries when looking at the roots of the force. It is also reinforced and suggested by Bane's focuses of combat. As such I believe the Aperion/Anima/Pneuma concept holds a lot of weight and credibility to it.

Now for force alignments. A lot of people view the only alignments in the force as Light and Dark. I am of the opinion that there are two more not as common alignments, these being Balance and Chaos.

Light and Dark alignments are demonstrated left and right throughout Star Wars. Balance and Chaos alignments are harder to come across.

Balance is demonstrated arguably by the Je'daii, the Jensaarai, the imperial knights, and Revan.

Chaos appears to be demonstrated by Joruus C'baoth, Starkiller (clone), Onimi, Sarasu Taalon, and any infected with force psychosis.

This theory is supported by the family known as the Ones. Each of them represent one of these alignments. Son is Dark, Daughter is Light, Father is Balance, and Abeloth is Chaos.



Well this is just my view on the Force, and I'm curious to know what you all think.

Question: Is there even such a thing as the Light Side? I believe Lucas insinuated that it was merely the natural form of the Force.

As I perceive it, the force is constantly changing and evolving. It has/is unlimited power, knowledge and serenity. There is no individualism in it. Everything comes from the force and takes shape in material form. Yet the galaxy is too big so the force has to allow access to its power for the people that live in the galaxy so that they can complete its will and keep the balance of the universe safe. I think that if the galaxy was smaller, there wouldn't be a need for powerful jedis and sith. Being strong in the force would have a more humble meaning.

As for its areas, I think that there are 3 main dimensions of the force:
1) Existence/Presence(Material world perceived through individual consciousness)
2) The energy within everything that keeps the universe together(Like a bridge between presence and nothingness)
3) Nothingness( Everything that exists is the force but force is not just everything that exists.)

Originally posted by Nephthys
Question: Is there even such a thing as the Light Side? I believe Lucas insinuated that it was merely the natural form of the Force.


That's why I found the phrase "bring balance to the Force" somewhat laughable. What they really mean is kill all the Sith. Apparently, the Force is only "balanced" when the Sith are gone.

Originally posted by Kalen Sykes
That's why I found the phrase "bring balance to the Force" somewhat laughable. What they really mean is kill all the Sith. Apparently, the Force is only "balanced" when the Sith are gone.

They found out the true meaning the hard way. Both jedi and sith were exterminated by the chosen one as he brought balance to the force

The Living Force-energy generated by all living things
The Cosmic Force- energy of the whole universe which feeds the living force and vice-versa
Nightsister magick- a strange component, which is both part of and outside the force.

Originally posted by Kalen Sykes
That's why I found the phrase "bring balance to the Force" somewhat laughable. What they really mean is kill all the Sith. Apparently, the Force is only "balanced" when the Sith are gone.

It's not really laughable. The Darkside is like a cancer in the Force, a perversion of the pure energy of the universe. To eradicate the darkside would be to bring balance back to the Force.

Originally posted by Nephthys
It's not really laughable. The Darkside is like a cancer in the Force, a perversion of the pure energy of the universe. To eradicate the darkside would be to bring balance back to the Force.
"Too much light or dark would be the undoing of life as you understand it"-The Father

That's dumb.

"Oh yeah, too much peace and goodness would like, destroy everything, somehow. Balance man, balance. Peace. A-and War. Blanance."

Or maybe it would undo life as we understand it by creating one where the universe isn't wracked by horrific warfare and strife and would be a really awesome place to live. That would be awful.

@Neph

Balance means evil and good existing side by side equally. Everything can only exist with its opposite in nature and universe. SW philosophy is also based on this.

Look what the chosen one did. He brought balance to the force by killing all the jedi and the sith. So not just the sith.

The centuries of jedi dominance created an imbalance in the force and very powerful beings like Palpatine and Plagueis emerged as an effect. Then they arrogantly experimented on the force and the force sent the chosen one as an effect. The cycle would only end with both jedi and sith being limned. Not just one side.

Originally posted by Sinious
@Neph

Balance means evil and good existing side by side equally. Everything can only exist with its opposite in nature and universe. SW philosophy is also based on this.

Look what the chosen one did. He brought balance to the force by killing all the jedi and the sith. So not just the sith.

The centuries of jedi dominance created an imbalance in the force and very powerful beings like Palpatine and Plagueis emerged as an effect. Then they arrogantly experimented on the force and the force sent the chosen one as an effect. The cycle would only end with both jedi and sith being limned. Not just one side.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^

And if that's what it takes to make balance then balance isn't a good thing. Billions of deaths just to even out the scales? Good, innocent Jedi murdered as equal to evil psycho Sith? That's despicable. Give me an imbalance towards the Light any day over that garbage.



You're wrong, anyway. Luke and Anakin create balance by destroying the Sith, but the Jedi survive. Wouldn't that be unbalanced? No, because the Jedi were never a problem.

V Yep.

Hasn't Lucas flat out stated both in person and in the films that balance is a universe without the sith but the Jedi still live?

Originally posted by Nephthys
And if that's what it takes to make balance then balance isn't a good thing. Billions of deaths just to even out the scales? Good, innocent Jedi murdered as equal to evil psycho Sith? That's despicable. Give me an imbalance towards the Light any day over that garbage.



You're wrong, anyway. Luke and Anakin create balance by destroying the Sith, but the Jedi survive. Wouldn't that be unbalanced? No, because the Jedi were never a problem.

V Yep.

The force does not share the same norms about life as you do lol

Everything in our real universe will die one day as well. Does that mean something evil rules us?

The sith survived too. Both jedi and sith were only limned. Both sides were growing restless cause there was a build up of 1000 years ready to explode. There was great disturbance in the force. And so what if Anakin killed all those jedi? The jedi see death as a liberation. "There is no death, there is the force"

I don't view the different Force ideologies as separate, with one being more credible than the other. I believe the Living Force and the Unifying Force are simply different aspects of a singular whole. For instance, the Living Force was a trait that not all Force Sensitives could naturally commune with, such was the case with Mother Talzin, just as Darth Plagueis could no longer touch the Unifying Force after the activation of Darth Tenebrous's maxichlorians. One does not exist separately from the other.

As for Force Alignment, I would constitute that there is only a singular Force, but depending on the manner in which the user calls on it, it's nature changes, and thus it can change the user. This process is more accurately described as "falling", in the case of the Dark Side. Were a diagram drawn of the varying natures the Force can take on, I would describe it as a diamond rather than a line segment--Two opposing ends of it being Light and Dark, the others being Balance and Chaos. A diagram such as this allows for middle ground between any end of the diagram as well as the intensity of alignment, and the center of the diamond would be the Force's unaltered, natural state.

As for the concepts of Aperion, Anima, and Pneuma, these are not aspects of the Force so much as a classification of effects the Force can have on those it's directed at.

There is the light side, which is the force in its natural state, and then there's the dark side.

There is nothing else. The EU likes to hint at the Universe being more complex than that to give all the college students something to jack off to, but as far as Star Wars as intended is concerned, there is nothing else.

So far. Abrams could change that.

Originally posted by Tzeentch
There is the light side, which is the force in its natural state, and then there's the dark side.

There is nothing else. The EU likes to hint at the Universe being more complex than that to give all the college students something to jack off to, but as far as Star Wars as intended is concerned, there is nothing else.
The Mortis Trilogy suggests differently.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
The Mortis Trilogy suggests differently. George Lucas > Mortis Trilogy

"Balance" in the force was achieved by Anakin murdering the last of the Sith in the Galaxy and then dying himself. As far as the film universe is considered, a Galaxy with Jedi but no Sith is a balanced Galaxy.

Originally posted by Sinious
The force does not share the same norms about life as you do lol

Everything in our real universe will die one day as well. Does that mean something evil rules us?

The sith survived too. Both jedi and sith were only limned. Both sides were growing restless cause there was a build up of 1000 years ready to explode. There was great disturbance in the force. And so what if Anakin killed all those jedi? The jedi see death as a liberation. "There is no death, there is the force" No, you're wrong. The Sith and the Dark Side send the Force off-balance.

You should like, look up Taoism or something. It's apparently what the setting's philosophy is based off of.

Originally posted by Tzeentch
There is the light side, which is the force in its natural state, and then there's the dark side.

There is nothing else. The EU likes to hint at the Universe being more complex than that to give all the college students something to jack off to, but as far as Star Wars as intended is concerned, there is nothing else.

So far. Abrams could change that.

Not really. You make it sound as if the entire philosophy of SW is evil vs good. The concept of force is very much complex and is based on real philosophies to a certain extend.

Originally posted by Sinious
You make it sound as if the entire philosophy of SW is evil vs good. That's because it is, as far as the movies are concerned.

Originally posted by Sinious
You make it sound as if the entire philosophy of SW is evil vs good.

That is the entire philosophy of Star Wars. It's good vs. evil, with the morally good heroes always triumphing over evil. That's why everyone in the Empire was cartoonishly evil and mostly incompetent while the rebels were all super good guys who always succeeded against all odds.

Star Wars as Lucas intended it to be is very much a black and white universe.

Perhaps I should've specified. When I made this topic I was referring to the Legends Continuity, and not the Disney Continuity.

Originally posted by NemeBro
No, you're wrong. The Sith and the Dark Side send the Force off-balance.

You should like, look up Taoism or something. It's apparently what the setting's philosophy is based off of.

Im quite familiar with Taoism.

It has no dark side of the force though. Its either people absorbing the energy of life or the absence of it where people live material lives. The sith is kind of a symbol for ego and the animal instincts of humans.

The complete annihilation of the ego would mean the end of existence. So both the positive energy/spiritual energywhat ever you wanna call it and the ego, need to co-exist.

Originally posted by Tzeentch
That is the entire philosophy of Star Wars. It's good vs. evil, with the morally good heroes always triumphing over evil. That's why everyone in the Empire was cartoonishly evil and mostly incompetent while the rebels were all super good guys who always succeeded against all odds.

Star Wars as Lucas intended it to be is very much a black and white universe.

the movies did not contain a lot of information of the force but that doesn't mean that GL didn't have it in the story. He didn't keep making it up as a new movie came out. The entire concept of Star Wars was built on the force from the beginning and it wasn't just good or evil lol

Originally posted by Tzeentch
George Lucas > Mortis Trilogy

"Balance" in the force was achieved by Anakin murdering the last of the Sith in the Galaxy and then dying himself. As far as the film universe is considered, a Galaxy with Jedi but no Sith is a balanced Galaxy.
Except Lucas also agreed with the Mortis trilogy later on. I honestly think he just went with the flow towards the end.

Empire > Rebellion if no plot convenience or luke skywalker was there

Originally posted by Tzeentch
There is the light side, which is the force in its natural state, and then there's the dark side.




Sometimes simplicity is best.

The way I see it, following the will of the force is the "light side". Bending the will of the force, twisting it and corrupting it for your own means, that's the "dark side".

Update: Posting that the Jedi Exile would lose to stupid TOR characters is also the "dark side".

Mortis Triology> TPM,AOTC,Rots

Alright, here's a chart I put together based on my personal view on Force Alignment:

http://i39.servimg.com/u/f39/18/12/41/88/the_fo10.png

This chart will help explain my theory. The Force itself is, in essence, life itself. It has no pre-set alignment of it's own, and is something of a blank slate. However, the Force can't be called upon and applied in it's original form. Depending on how it is called upon by it's users, the nature of the Force changes.

For instance, if the Force is called upon by one's fury or fear, the nature of the Force would reflect this, becoming dark. As the nature of the Force is changed, the way it affects the user follows in suit. The Force constantly flows through the user as it does in all life, so when it's nature is changed that nature can physically and mentally effect the user, which in the Dark Side's case leads to corruption.

The Force is called on by emotions, be they of serenity or of passion. The stronger these emotions are, the stronger the call and the greater the benefits. However, the alignment and nature of the Force also becomes more intense, and thus it's effects on the users grow. This is why those who are deeply nested in the Dark Side are physically corrupted by it's power. On the chart, the strength of alignment is displayed by distance from the center, the Force's natural state.

Another important factor is that there are not simply two ends to this spectrum, as the chart is not simply a line. There are two middle ground alignments between the Light and the Dark, which I call Chaos and Balance. Despite the fact that both rest between the light and the dark, Chaos and Balance are polar opposites in principle. Balance describes when a user is able to synchronize their passions with serenity, and Chaos would be the inverse of this philosophy.

The chart also helps depict the middle ground between Force Alignments--Which is helpful in the case of beings such as Kyle Katarn, who while mainly light side aligned, appears to lean towards the "Chaos" aspect of the Force in his use of both the Light and Dark Sides in an unsynchronized fashion. The same can be applied to the Imperial Knights, who appear to nest themselves between Light and Balance.

That's my theory on Force Alignment and it's mechanics, I'm curious to see what people think of it. Note that this has nothing to do with Force Aspects such as the Unifying and Living Force, which I have a separate theory concerning.

I agree with that completely. It makes total sense.


That chart also seems like the results of those damn political tests DarthSith and Kenobifan were ridiculously obsessed with.

Why is there only one character on the dark side to show how far one can go?

Originally posted by Emperordmb
I agree with that completely. It makes total sense.


That chart also seems like the results of those damn political tests DarthSith and Kenobifan were ridiculously obsessed with.

It's because that's what it's based on.

Why is Revan farther away then the "unaltered" part then Kyle?
I don't recall Kyle ever unleashing the Force in its "purest form."

He's closer to balance than chaos. I guess.

I enjoy how Malgus is the closest mortal to their side.

If you read the text, you would know why. The farther you are from the unaltered Force the stronger your alignment is. Revan had a strong alignment in the "Balance" sect of the Force.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Why is Revan farther away then the "unaltered" part then Kyle?
I don't recall Kyle ever unleashing the Force in its "purest form."
He isn't. I think unaltered is the entire middle section, not just the square. Revan is close to balance, unless you don't consider the Father unaltered.

The only mystery for me on that chart is the dark side-chaos relationship.
It seems the more instinctive and aggressive the characters are, the more closer to the dark they get which would mean the opposite applies to chaos where more calm evil characters should be yet Abeloth isn't the genius evil mastermind she would have to be to embody the chaos side of the force. My question is that where would the great manipulators like Sidious or corrupted force users with no agenda like Nihilus would stand in that chart?

Abeloth is confirmed to be the "Bringer of Chaos."
I suggest a read at FOTJ.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Abeloth is confirmed to be the "Bringer of Chaos."
I suggest a read at FOTJ.

Im not denying that. I mean that since she is the peak of chaos, then where do characters like Sidious and Nihilus stand?

people aligned with Chaos tend to be insane.

No, Chaos does not inspire calm--It is the unsynchronized and unpredictable efforts of drawing on all possible emotions to attain greater power. Unlike in the case of balance, this is a completely uncontrollable process that can lead to insanity if gone too deeply into.

Originally posted by Sinious
Im not denying that. I mean that since she is the peak of chaos, then where do characters like Sidious and Nihilus stand?

Palpatine is almost completely Dark Side aligned, similarly to Darth Malgus. Control and tact does not make one any less Dark Side aligned--Sith Inquisitors use deceit and betrayal, which are just as Dark as hate and fury.

Nihilus is a wound in the Force, not sure if he can be properly charted.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Palpatine is almost completely Dark Side aligned, similarly to Darth Malgus. Control and tact does not make one any less Dark Side aligned--Sith Inquisitors use deceit and betrayal, which are just as Dark as hate and fury.

Nihilus is a wound in the Force, not sure if he can be properly charted.

The only thing that bothers me is that Palpatine should be at the top of something or at least very close. However, he is very different from Abeloth or the son for that matter.

Yes, Nihilus is a unique case.

When I picture the Force, for some reason, I picture a bluish white energy that those who are force sensitive can direct and manipulate. I also think that neither the Jedi or the Sith can use the Force to its full effect since each side only has half of the knowledge.

Originally posted by Darth _Sadow1
When I picture the Force, for some reason, I picture a bluish white energy that those who are force sensitive can direct and manipulate. I also think that neither the Jedi or the Sith can use the Force to its full effect since each side only has half of the knowledge.
No matter what your alignment is, you are missing something. If you are completely devoted to one side you are missing out on the other, but if you try and balance the two, you lack the strength of devotion to either side.

"The immortal illusion. An embodiment so powerful it is believed as a legend. A raw aura of pure energy, balanced in masterful light. An ultimate, omniscient vision. A untrammeled being of perfect. Sheer clarity pierces the heavens as the Force itself coaxes into view. Lord Revan has came."
―The Canonical Sourcebook of Revan and Furry Cats

That quote sounds so sexy.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Question: Is there even such a thing as the Light Side?

It was cited in TESB.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I believe Lucas insinuated that it was merely the natural form of the Force.

No. That did not happen.

Originally posted by Nephthys
The Darkside is like a cancer in the Force

No.

Originally posted by Sinious
Look what the chosen one did. He brought balance to the force by killing all the jedi and the sith.

No, just the Sith.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Luke and Anakin create balance by destroying the Sith, but the Jedi survive. Wouldn't that be unbalanced?

No, because it's the balance of the Force, not the balance of the Force-users.

Originally posted by Tzeentch
There is the light side, which is the force in its natural state

No. The Force in its natural state includes both the light and dark sides. Lucas has always maintained this and it was also said in various Legends EU sources.

Originally posted by NemeBro
The Sith and the Dark Side send the Force off-balance.

The Banite Sith throw the Force out of balance, but the balance is between the light and dark sides, so the mere presence of the dark side does not unbalance the Force.

Originally posted by Sinious
Im quite familiar with Taoism.

It has no dark side of the force though.

It has an analogue in yin.

Originally posted by Tzeentch
George Lucas > Mortis Trilogy

Mortis is 100% consistent with what Lucas has actually said about the Force. It only contradicts what fans had been telling themselves about the Force.

Lucas > fans

I like what Healer Caleb said about the Force, Dark, Light, two sides of the same coin that in an ideal universe should coexist but instead are pitted against each other by observers of one side unable to abide the continued existence of the other.