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1. 5 TPM Kenobis
2. Darth Maldadi, Kas'sim, Shado Vao
3. Cin Drallig, Saesee Tiin, POD Bane
4. Darth Malgus, Darth Caedus, Darth Plagueis
5. FOTJ Luke, DE Palpatine, and ZONAKIN

BOSS: SON, FATHER, ABELOTH

Done at two...

Why are 3-Boss even here?

Actually, they might pass fight 2. They'd stop at 3, though.

They aren't going to fight past two.

I think Shado has possibly surpassed his master Sazen, Maladi's got sorcery which I don't think either of the others are good against, and Kas'im is better than any of them in sabers.

Heck, 2's stronger than 3 I'd say, no weak links in 2.

Saesee Tiin > Kas'sim by

Could Vao defeat POD Bane?

Originally posted by carthage
Saesee Tiin > Kas'sim
No

Originally posted by carthage
Could Vao defeat POD Bane?
And.... No

Your posts on the subject are meaningless. Kas'sim has demonstrated nothing other than how incompetent he was to get his ass killed by Trainee Bane.

I don't think Vao could take trainee Bane though. They likely stop at two imo

Originally posted by Emperordmb
No


And.... No

What you said, on both points.

Originally posted by carthage
Your posts on the subject are meaningless. Kas'sim has demonstrated nothing other than how incompetent he was to get his ass killed by Trainee Bane.
Your hatred of Kas'im is quite amusing. Hell even Sirak was an impressive duelist.

The other students told stories about Sirak's skill that were so great they seemed to be exaggerated, and Bane recognized them to be very accurate when Sirak first engages him, even though he was unaware that Sirak was just toying with him at that point, not even showing his true skill. And the other students high regard for him involved them referring to him as "untouchable" and "the perfect being.

When Sirak stops toying with him, he demonstrated the ability to seemlessly blend several forms into a single sequence, something you yourself noted to be highly impressive on the Venamis vs Katarn thread, and he also showed himself to be ambidextrous, something Newguy1 claimed to be impressive on the exact same thread.

Sirak was also very strong in the Dark Side of the force, as per several quotes, and his strength in the force was demonstrated by the fact that he was capable of producing lightning of lethal intensity.

From all of this, it becomes apparent that Sirak is very damn good as a duelist.

Right after Bane completely curbstomped Sirak, he still considered the notion of him being able to face Kas'im in a serious fight a preposterous one, and he wasn't even aware of Kas'im's true skill with a double bladed lightsaber, much less with Jar'kai. This speaks leaps and bounds for Kas'im's skill, given how good I have just proven Sirak to be, and the fact that someone who curbstomped Sirak would have no chance against Kas'im even when not considering the full scope of Kas'im's ability with a saberstaff.

By Lehon, Bane had improved significantly from his victory over Sirak to the point at which he was able to bridge that large gap in ability, and drive back Kas'im into a quick retreat when Kas'im was going all out with his saberstaff.

When Kas'im switched over to Jar'kai, his ability was at the level that he was now driving Bane to a quick retreat, despite how great a duelist Bane was at that point.

Evidently from all of this evidence, Bane and Kas'im are far greater duelists then you choose to give them credit for, and only your hatred of Bane blinds you to that fact.

Again if Kas'sim was so "good" he should've beaten Bane by virtue of his skill not by trickery and for all of his supposed "mastery" getting beaten by a trainee in spite of numerous advantages (his skill, a nexus, and hiding his knowledge of Jar kai). He has no force feats and or accolades that put him above Tiin or any PT Jedi with feats. Kas'sim sucks

Also Sirrak is featless



Let me marvel at the fact that struggling with a trainee with multiple advantages is somehow amazing to your fanboyism.

lmao.

Wait, carthage is saying: Since Kas'im failed to kill Bane, Bane and Kas'im suck.

To be fair they could all probably kill Revan

You just completely disregarded my entire argument.
Originally posted by carthage
Again if Kas'sim was so "good" he should've beaten Bane by virtue of his skill not by trickery and for all of his supposed "mastery" getting beaten by a trainee in spite of numerous advantages
Bane was no longer a trainee, and as I have proven above, his skill vastly improved from when he was promoted to the Sith Council to his fight with Kas'im on Lehon. And even as a "trainee," Bane still shitstomped Sirak, who I have proven to be a highly skilled duelist in his own right.

Originally posted by carthage
(his skill, a nexus, and hiding his knowledge of Jar kai).
You say that Kas'im should beat him because of his skill, yet you claim his skill is an unfair advantage?

I've already proven that the Nexus had a negligible impact on their fighting based on speed comparison. Even so that point is already moot because the Nexus would've benefited both parties.

Kas'im was beating Bane with his knowledge of Jar'kai and only lost when Bane brought out his advantage of superior strength in the force.

Originally posted by carthage
He has no force feats and or accolades that put him above Tiin or any PT Jedi with feats.
Aside from shielding himself from a force wave powerful enough to bring down the Rakatan Temple?

As far as accolades go, Kas'im's form and technique were described as flawless, even when he was greatly holding back. He defeated his own master before his prime, and his master was an extremely skilled duelist according to an accolade. He was widely recognized as the greatest duelist in the Order, and the possibility was considered that Kas'im may have been the greatest duelist who ever lived up until his time.

Originally posted by carthage
Kas'sim sucks
You are truly retarded if you think that.

Originally posted by carthage
Also Sirrak is featless
I provided you with numerous accolades for Sirak's ability. I also provided you with a demonstration of Sirak's ability (blending several forms into a single sequence), one that you used to place Venamis on Katarn's skill level when he had exactly that same feat.

You choosing to write off Sirak as featless, despite him having the exact same skill feat that you rated Venamis highly for, proves that you are a biased, ignorant, and devoid of logic.


You don't even look closely enough at Kas'im and Sirak to spell their names right.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Wait, carthage is saying: Since Kas'im failed to kill Bane, Bane and Kas'im suck.
He's been using that logic for a while now.

He wasn't declared Dark lord yet, ergo, he was still a trainee. Hence why I call him trainee Bane, and there is nothing impressive about him beating a featless trainee. If that's your best example of him being a "Skilled duelist" is beating a fellow trainee (who he lost too), then you're a bigger retard than I thought.



I said he had three advantages on his side, and even in spite of that he lost. It proves his incompetence not Bane's skill. Try again



You haven't proven anything, on Lehon Bane topples a temple on Ruusan he breaks boxes and crates. Bane utilized a nexus and never replicated any of his higher end feats off nexus in any of the books. Sorry.



Yet he still died and lost to a trainee who used a nexus to win. Lol


Not impressive, its a basic force shield and Bane never again replicated the effect of a powerful TK wave off nexus. It was one off.



You're retarded. That was a 3rd person quote from Bane. Kas'sim has no dueling feats or accolades from an objective source, so we're relying entirely on trainee Bane's word. Feats >> opinions. Kas'sim has no feats that prove he is a skilled duelist



Lol @ comparing Sirrak to Venamis. Venamis fought a stronger opponent off a nexus, kept up with his speed, and was trained from his inception to defeat him. Sirrak is a featless trainee who fought on a nexus and defeated a trainee on a nexus. There is a massive discrepancy in skill, Venamis was a potential Dark lord and Sirrak died a trainee. Again they are two different examples, not to mention Plagueis is infinitely more powerful and had higher end feats than Trainee Bane



Your comparing a weak trainee to a guy who fought the 3rd most powerful dark lord of the Sith and kept up with him. There is no argument to be had here.

Unconfirmed. When I emailed Drew about that, he specifically stated that is open for debate, and he doesn't like to specify his old works.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Unconfirmed. When I emailed Drew about that, he specifically stated that is open for debate, and he doesn't like to specify his old works.
Yeah that chapter also had something of a third person omniscient point of view.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Unconfirmed. When I emailed Drew about that, he specifically stated that is open for debate, and he doesn't like to specify his old works.

He has no feats that prove it either way, and Bane's word is not sufficient enough.

Originally posted by carthage
He wasn't declared Dark lord yet, ergo, he was still a trainee. Hence why I call him trainee Bane, and there is nothing impressive about him beating a featless trainee. If that's your best example of him being a "Skilled duelist" is beating a fellow trainee (who he lost too), then you're a bigger retard than I thought.
Actually Bane had graduated from the Sith Academy, been declared a Dark Lord, and been promoted to the Sith Council prior to his departure for Lehon.



Originally posted by carthage
I said he had three advantages on his side, and even in spite of that he lost. It proves his incompetence not Bane's skill. Try again
Despite the fact that Karpyshyn built up that entire confrontation as a feat for Bane and displayed it as a battle of two master duelists.

His skill was not an unfair advantage as it was within his own ability. The nexus was not an unfair advantage because both were dark side aligned. His skill in Jar'kai allowed him to drive Bane into a desperate retreat, when he then lost to Bane's advantage "his enormous command of the force."



Originally posted by carthage
You haven't proven anything, on Lehon Bane topples a temple on Ruusan he breaks boxes and crates. Bane utilized a nexus and never replicated any of his higher end feats off nexus in any of the books. Sorry.
Bane achieves the exact same speed on Korriban and Lehon, so the nexus of Lehon evidently didn't amp up their speed, which makes me question it's ability to passively amp their other abilities.

Perhaps it's because Bane never had another opportunity to demonstrate that level of telekinetic ability again. On Ruusan, all there was for him to destroy was a campsite, and he still ****ed that up. That does not demonstrate itself as the max of Bane's abilities however.

In Nadd's tomb he hurls a large stone slab that is cursed to be unmovable by Sith Sorcery. This is also an impressive showing of telekinesis.

After that point Bane was covered in Orbalisks, so he couldn't exactly demonstrate stuff without the Orbalisks because they were attatched to him.

In DOE after losing the orbalisks, he also never had a chance to demonstrate a feat on that telekinetic level, because in his confrontation with Cognus and the Doan guard, Cognus was suppressing his force power.

When he was in the Stone Prison, he was drugged, and underground surrounded by walls filled with explosives. It is unlikely he would choose to utilize telekinesis to such an extent that would bring the prison down on him.

On Ambria there was no shit for him to knock over.

Bane never had an opportunity to demonstrate the temple feat again, however you have nothing that shows that the limit of Bane's ability is below that.


Once again the Nexus argument is moot here as it didn't give Bane or Kas'im an unfair advantage over the other.


Originally posted by carthage
Yet he still died and lost to a trainee who used a nexus to win. Lol
Bane was no longer a trainee as I have proven numerous times, and I've also proven his ability advanced a great deal past the point when he was a trainee. I'm not sure what kinda crack you are smoking, but it must be some hardcore shit.

Originally posted by carthage
Not impressive, its a basic force shield and Bane never again replicated the effect of a powerful TK wave off nexus. It was one off.
Telekinesis and force augmentation are basic abilities as well. That doesn't mean they cannot be taken to extreme levels.

Whether or not Bane has demonstrated that feat again does not make Kas'im any less impressive, as the one time he did it, Kas'im blocked it.


Originally posted by carthage
You're retarded. That was a 3rd person quote from Bane. Kas'sim has no dueling feats or accolades from an objective source, so we're relying entirely on trainee Bane's word. Feats >> opinions. Kas'sim has no feats that prove he is a skilled duelist
That quote wasn't confirmed as Bane's opinion and comes from a chapter that is written in the third person omniscient perspective.


Originally posted by carthage
Lol @ comparing Sirrak to Venamis. Venamis fought a stronger opponent off a nexus, kept up with his speed, and was trained from his inception to defeat him. Sirrak is a featless trainee who fought on a nexus and defeated a trainee on a nexus. There is a massive discrepancy in skill, Venamis was a potential Dark lord and Sirrak died a trainee. Again they are two different examples, not to mention Plagueis is infinitely more powerful and had higher end feats than Trainee Bane
You still used the feat of switching between forms of lightsaber combat as a demonstration of Venamis's raw skill, so Sirak performing the exact same feat is still highly impressive, and even if it doesn't put Sirak on Venamis's level, it still shows him to be a very skilled duelist in his own right.


Originally posted by carthage
Your comparing a weak trainee to a guy who fought the 3rd most powerful dark lord of the Sith and kept up with him. There is no argument to be had here.
Sirak was by far the strongest apprentice at the academy in every respect before Bane passed him up. He's hardly a "weak" trainee, and by all meanings of the word, Venamis was still "Tenebrous's trainee" who hadn't even earned the title of Darth yet, so your suggesting that rank=power is a preposterous one, or that it is one that has any relevance here. And Plagueis doesn't exactly have any dueling feats by this point that are more impressive than ones you casually dismiss for other characters.

I'm not disagreeing that Venamis is Sirak's superior, but Sirak achieving what you count as an impressive skill feat for Venamis still marks him as a very skilled duelist, no matter what twisted logic you try and pull out your ass. They may be different characters, but it's the same feat.

Kas'im is one of the better pure duelists, but at the cost of, well, little besides from dueling, IMO.

Originally posted by Q99
Kas'im is one of the better pure duelists, but at the cost of, well, little besides from dueling, IMO.
His telekinesis is pretty good too.

Oh?



Perhaps, but they should be on a similar level either way.



I doubt Maladi could have topped Shado Vao, and I'd infer that a combat-oriented Council Member isn't more than negligibly lesser than he.



Agen Kolar.



Cin is pretty awfully underrated, nowadays.

Kas'im > Agen.

Ur mom > My mom

Originally posted by NewGuy01

I doubt Maladi could have topped Shado Vao, and I'd infer that a combat-oriented Council Member isn't more than negligibly lesser than he.

Fair argument, so point.




There I disagree.




Shaak Ti stole one of his big hypes! And the movie version- and thus highest canon- of his Vader fight is quite unimpressive.

I like to think he was in a bit of a Qui-Gon situation- skilled, but perhaps past his prime.

What do you mean Shaak Ti stole his hype? You are aware that there is a quote that blatantly states that Drallig is more skilled than Shaak, right?

If you're referring to the LoE thing, I think that's a rumor. I bought a new copy of the book in the Dark Lord Trilogy mashup set, and Drallig's name is still there.

Also, people tend to forget that Drallig/co. were defending themselves against blaster fire whilst being cut down by Anakin, as once he was defeated the apprentices behind him were shot to shreds.

But not true Dark lord of the Sith. That occurred after he destroyed them, not that it matters though.








He has no feats to call him a master duelist, and getting beaten by a trainee who had barely been trained for a few months it makes him look like shit. Again feats >> whatever Krapashyn had intended.



I never said his skill was an unfair advantage. I said that based on his skill he should've beaten him, the sole advantage he had was knowing Jar kai and it meant little because he still died like *****. If he devoted all of that time to saber combat, he should've done much better than getting killed by someone who trained much later in life. Krapashyn's writing makes no sense.






Lolnope he never replicated that speed again in his life. He barely moved fast enough to block rain drops. The nexus helped him admit it

]Not even in DOE did he do a similar feat, his TK isn't that strong off nexus, sorry.


The broader point being he had a nexus to boost his powers, unlike in the case of other Sith he has no other max showings.



Nadd's tomb is a darkside nexus=nexus feat



Lol what? The orbalisks amplified him too when he killed those assassins he made it appear as if he wielded 12 lightsabers, in DOE he could barely deflect rain. He was amped in all of his showings, and his limited amount of showings poorly reflect his skill/force power. You're theorizing if you say he "never had a chance", on the feats he has done off nexus he clearly isn't as strong.







No lol. All of his showings off nexus simply don't match his showings on them. Its not a coincidence its simply Bane is nowhere near as skilled or as powerful as you'd like him to be. All of this "HE COULD'VE DONE X" is simple posturing, going by feats he's not really even on the same tier as Malgus, Bane, Kun, or Vader. He's slower, weaker, and by simply demonstration he can't match any of them on his best day.


Bane was no longer a trainee as I have proven numerous times, and I've also proven his ability advanced a great deal past the point when he was a trainee. I'm not sure what kinda crack you are smoking, but it must be some hardcore shit.





Kas'sim was drawing on the nexus too, and sure it makes it less impressive. It means that Bane and Kas'sim aren't capable of replicating the capacity of that feat off nexus, and that Bane's supposedly "Great force power" comes from nexuses and much less his own power.







Not really lol considering Plagueis is a much faster and infinitely more skilled opponent than Bane. His ability to switch, contort his body, and attack from all angles against Plagueis's speed is more impressive than two weak trainees fighting. Venamis even seared Plagueis's neck, and forced him to use a battle mind like technique.





Lonope he was going to be the Dark lord had Plagueis died, there is a difference between an apprentice and a trainee at an academy. One is technically a Sith Lord, and the others are only nominally Sith lords according to stupid egalitarian ideals Kaan didn't want to use the Darth title. They're trainees



Kaan didn't want to use the Darth title because it denoted individuality. Hence why they're trainees under the laugable title of "Lord". Try again



The situations are different Bane was a trainee titled by a guy who avoided using the Darth title, and Venamis was still technically a Sith lord even if it was in violation of Bane's rule. He was still trained and wouldv'e justly assumed his title if Plagueis died. Bane was atrainee, and gave the title to himself once he killed of Kaan's weak order. Not really similar, and Venamis fighting Plagueis is an INFINITELY better feat than Sirrak beating pussy Bane

Originally posted by NewGuy01
What do you mean Shaak Ti stole his hype? You are aware that there is a quote that blatantly states that Drallig is more skilled than Shaak, right?

If you're referring to the LoE thing, I think that's a rumor. I bought a new copy of the book in the Dark Lord Trilogy mashup set, and Drallig's name is still there.

Also, people tend to forget that Drallig/co. were defending themselves against blaster fire whilst being cut down by Anakin, as once he was defeated the apprentices behind him were shot to shreds.

Ah, that was an incorrect rumor? Oh well.


Still, there is the matter he is really lacking in feats.

Originally posted by carthage
But not true Dark lord of the Sith. That occurred after he destroyed them, not that it matters though.
Bane still wasn't a trainee you daft ****. That's what I've been trying to explain for the past five ****ing debates.







Originally posted by carthage
He has no feats to call him a master duelist, and getting beaten by a trainee who had barely been trained for a few months it makes him look like shit. Again feats >> whatever Krapashyn had intended.
Bane was no longer a trainee, and he was leaps and bounds ahead of the other apprentices who had trained all of their lives.

Hell, when Bane actually was a trainee, prior to his graduation from the Sith Academy, he considers the notion that he could take Kas'im in a real fight a preposterous one. And Bane hasn't even seen the true scope of Kas'im's abilities with a saberstaff yet at this point.

So as duelists: Jar'kai Kas'im>Sith Council Bane>Saberstaff Kas'im>Holding Back Kas'im>Trainee Bane


Originally posted by carthage
I never said his skill was an unfair advantage. I said that based on his skill he should've beaten him, the sole advantage he had was knowing Jar kai and it meant little because he still died like *****. If he devoted all of that time to saber combat, he should've done much better than getting killed by someone who trained much later in life. Krapashyn's writing makes no sense.
Because Bane was just that damn good at that point. Why is that so hard for you to accept.





Originally posted by carthage
Lolnope he never replicated that speed again in his life. He barely moved fast enough to block rain drops. The nexus helped him admit it
Bane moves at ten strikes per second on both Lehon and Korriban, despite how much stronger Lehon is in the Dark Side than Korriban. Evidently the added strength of the Dark Side had no effect on their fighting speed.

And if you are really going to play the Nexus card for Dxun, Bane on Dxun considered the rainstorm feat impossible using speed and TK so... his speed evidently increased quite a bit by DOE. Zannah also considered Bane to be "faster than she could've ever imagined," and she has fought a bloodlusted Orbalisk Bane before.

Originally posted by carthage
Not even in DOE did he do a similar feat, his TK isn't that strong off nexus, sorry.
Because in his fight with the Huntress and the Doan Guard, his powers were being suppressed, in the Stone Prison he was drugged and such a display of power would've collapsed the damn prison on him and triggered explosions all around him, and on Ambria there was nothing that size for him to knock over.

Originally posted by carthage
The broader point being he had a nexus to boost his powers, unlike in the case of other Sith he has no other max showings.


Originally posted by carthage
Nadd's tomb is a darkside nexus=nexus feat
Bane mentions that the dark power in the tomb was fighting him rather than helping him.


Originally posted by carthage
Lol what? The orbalisks amplified him too when he killed those assassins he made it appear as if he wielded 12 lightsabers, in DOE he could barely deflect rain. He was amped in all of his showings, and his limited amount of showings poorly reflect his skill/force power. You're theorizing if you say he "never had a chance", on the feats he has done off nexus he clearly isn't as strong.
The Orbalisks made it appear as if he wielded twelve lightsabers when he was bloodlusted against Zannah, yet in DOE Zannah notes that he's "faster than she could've ever imagined. DOE Bane is faster than ROT Bane.

Your claiming the fact that he has orbalisks reflects poorly on his power? Let's look at speed. Zannah finds DOE Bane faster than she ever could've imagined despite fighting bloodlusted ROT Bane. And not only did Bane receive a boost in force power from the Orbalisks, but he received a purely physical boost as well. This implies that DOE Bane's force strength was enough to augment his speed to be superior to the physically and force enhanced speed of his Orbalisk encrusted self.
Now let's look at his lightning shall we? Bane's force storm in ROT reduces three people to ash, while in DOE off of a nexus he is capable of reducing four people to ashes with a casual one handed blast.
DOE Bane's strength in the force from these two examples is highly comparable with that of his orbalisk encrusted self, at the very least.

You're claiming that the Orbalisks reflect poorly on his skill? In his fight with Lsu, he managed to outmaneuver her and throw her on her ass with an unpredictable maneuver, and Lsu was the BM invigorated top duelist of the Jedi Order. Lsu was also an Echani, and Echani specialized in reading their opponents so they could predict their next moves. The fact that Bane was able to outmaneuver Lsu was impressive, especially given the mass of the Orbalisks reducing his agility, and the bloodlust from the Orbalisks clouding his judgement. But that's not all. After losing the Orbalisks, Bane improves immensely on the aspect of his fighting style that allowed him to throw Lsu on her ass.






Originally posted by carthage
No lol. All of his showings off nexus simply don't match his showings on them. Its not a coincidence its simply Bane is nowhere near as skilled or as powerful as you'd like him to be. All of this "HE COULD'VE DONE X" is simple posturing, going by feats he's not really even on the same tier as Malgus, Bane, Kun, or Vader. He's slower, weaker, and by simply demonstration he can't match any of them on his best day.
You just said that he's not on the same tier as himself dumbass.

DOE Bane is immensely fast, you are retarded.

DOE Bane is also physically strong enough to rip a durasteel door off of its hinges, a feat which none of the other people you listed (except possibly Vader) has a strength feat on that caliber.

I have just proven that DOE Bane's force strength is at the very least on the same level as that of his orbalisk encrusted self, and he has numerous accolades for his power that you are choosing to ignore, so yes Bane is immensely powerful.


Originally posted by carthage
Kas'sim was drawing on the nexus too, and sure it makes it less impressive. It means that Bane and Kas'sim aren't capable of replicating the capacity of that feat off nexus, and that Bane's supposedly "Great force power" comes from nexuses and much less his own power.
But the text specifically referred to it as "Bane's" immense command of the force. And he also has numerous other accolades for his power.

Their speed was not impacted by the nexus as I've proven countless times, so...

And the nexus does not change their level of skill and strength in the force in comparison to eachother.






Originally posted by carthage
Not really lol considering Plagueis is a much faster and infinitely more skilled opponent than Bane. His ability to switch, contort his body, and attack from all angles against Plagueis's speed is more impressive than two weak trainees fighting. Venamis even seared Plagueis's neck, and forced him to use a battle mind like technique.
Bane and Sirak were the two strongest students at the academy, both of them being described as "invincible" by the other apprentices, whom they were leaps and bounds ahead of.

You noted the raw ability of being able to switch rapidly between forms as impressive, and Sirak did that several times in a single sequence and demonstrated himself to be ambidextrous. Even if Sirak is not Plagueis/Venamis level, he is still a highly skilled duelist.




Originally posted by carthage
Lonope he was going to be the Dark lord had Plagueis died, there is a difference between an apprentice and a trainee at an academy. One is technically a Sith Lord, and the others are only nominally Sith lords according to stupid egalitarian ideals Kaan didn't want to use the Darth title. They're trainees
Venamis still did not legitimately have the Darth title.

You have just proven you're immense bias again. When Bane is close to being the Dark Lord, you're like "lolnope Bane's an unimpressive trainee." But when the same rings true for Venamis, you're like "Oh he's impressive for almost being the Dark Lord."


Originally posted by carthage
The situations are different Bane was a trainee titled by a guy who avoided using the Darth title, and Venamis was still technically a Sith lord even if it was in violation of Bane's rule. He was still trained and wouldv'e justly assumed his title if Plagueis died. Bane was atrainee, and gave the title to himself once he killed of Kaan's weak order. Not really similar, and Venamis fighting Plagueis is an INFINITELY better feat than Sirrak beating pussy Bane
Blending several forms into a single sequence is still very impressive.

Nice drawing you fat hore

Venamis- He lost to an inexperienced form of a dark lord who was not yet at his peak against whom he was specifically trained to have an advantage over.

Bane- He beat a highly experienced dark lord, veteran of countless combats, who had a good knowledge of his style.

I can't believe you're implying Kas'im is superior to Plagueis.

In skill, probably.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
I can't believe you're implying Kas'im is superior to Plagueis.

I'm not. Even Plagueis was less experienced once, and my point was more how Venamis had a specific edge against him and still lost.

Plagueis was the Dark Lord of the Sith at that point. He had over a century of experience.

Venamis giving him a challenge >>> Bane defeating Kas'im

Other than that argument, I agree with Emperordmb.

Originally posted by red8
Plagueis was the Dark Lord of the Sith at that point. He had over a century of experience.

Venamis giving him a challenge >>> Bane defeating Kas'im

Other than that argument, I agree with Emperordmb.
If you'll notice, I never made that argument.

I merely made the argument that Sirak blending several forms into a sequence was impressive, and that Carthage claimed that it was impressive when Venamis did it.

Carthage then blew it way out of proportion and started putting words in my mouth.

Star Wars tends to favor talent over skill/experience. Otherwise Obi-Wan and Dooku should not have had a problem with Anakin. Sidious would have been too rusty to blitz the strike team or fight Yoda. Revan should have been too rusty and exhausted to be much of a challenge in the Foundry. And so on.

With that being said, Karpashyn wrote Bane's character to be unusually talented. He went from being a miner to a soldier to a Sith acolyte to the Dark Lord of the Sith way too quickly. But other than that, PoD was a good book.



I stand corrected.