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http://www.comicvine.com/profile/darthant66/blog/revans-raw-power-comparison/97193/

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
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http://www.comicvine.com/profile/darthant66/blog/revans-raw-power-comparison/97193/

At first I was like...
http://i.imgur.com/RBT0OsQ.png

Then I was like
http://grizzlybomb.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/got-2-6-1.gif

then I was like:

http://stashbox.org/1076829/111231948-sheen22-You-Jelly-That-Im-Winning-Meme-Generator-Google-Chrome.png

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
then I was like:

http://stashbox.org/1076829/111231948-sheen22-You-Jelly-That-Im-Winning-Meme-Generator-Google-Chrome.png

http://www.jamspreader.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/ummm-no.gif

http://www.playandroid.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/U-Mad-Bro.jpg

But yeah, any well comprised thoughts on the thread itself? Or just Jpeg/GiF Wars?

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
http://www.playandroid.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/U-Mad-Bro.jpg

http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130922105759/thehungergames/images/8/83/Hahahahah_noo.gif

Originally posted by Lord Stark
At first I was like...
http://i.imgur.com/RBT0OsQ.png

Then I was like
http://grizzlybomb.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/got-2-6-1.gif Is it just me, or does this gif show Robert moving his left hand to slap Cersei, then we see her being slapped by his right?

Originally posted by Lord Stark
http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130922105759/thehungergames/images/8/83/Hahahahah_noo.gif

http://chompsy.com/pictures/oh-he-mad.jpg

"Called Sith lightning, these charges cause excruciating pain and weaken life, and it is a challenge for even the most powerful Jedi Masters to deflect such bursts."

―Star Wars: The Ultimate Visual Guide

Interesting. Thank you for this quote.

Anyway, I have no problem with suggesting that Revan has comparable raw power to Yoda. I've long argued that Revan's absorption of Nyriss' lightning is more impressive than Yoda's handling of Dooku and Sidious' lightning. It's part of my argument for Vitiate possessing the strongest lightning in the mythos, which I personally see as almost certain.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
http://chompsy.com/pictures/oh-he-mad.jpg

Why would I be mad? As this perfectly canon image shows Yoda absolutely murks Revan.

http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/5vGRp_VBQtI/0.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111130081/3773436-7357615622-darth.jpg

-By this perfectly canon image, crafted by Mr. Lucas himself (with some of Filoni's help of course,) Revan=Yoda in sabers.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111130081/3773436-7357615622-darth.jpg

-By this perfectly canon image, crafted by Mr. Lucas himself (with some of Filoni's help of course,) Revan=Yoda in sabers.

Actually Lucas just made a statement yesterday saying your average red guard was Revan level.

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m7dps6pzD71rq645g.gif

Stark, enough. If anyone else want's to have any educated responses, that is well welcomed.

Originally posted by Nephthys
"Called Sith lightning, these charges cause excruciating pain and weaken life, and it is a challenge for even the most powerful Jedi Masters to deflect such bursts."

―Star Wars: The Ultimate Visual Guide

Interesting. Thank you for this quote.
I have that quote on my Revan respect thread as well.

http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2013/066/9/2/darth_revan_inks_by_hodges_art-d5xa7dk.png

I still think Revan's look is so cool.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66

I have that quote on my Revan respect thread as well.

Yeah but I was thinking about it recently.

I preferred his look in KOTOR, it was badass.
I'm not a huge fan of how he looks in TOR.

Yeah, he looks goofy in TOR. Its the shoulders. Bluh!

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Stark, enough. If anyone else want's to have any educated responses, that is well welcomed.


I have that quote on my Revan respect thread as well.

First off that quote about the stones is pretty much contradicted by Yoda's other TK feats. Also...even if that's true that just makes Yoda all the more impressive...he fought on par with the most powerful Sith Lord in history...past his prime.
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ltqn9tAna91qd1qzlo2_500.gif


Sidious is roughly equivalent to Vitiate if not superior in the force. Revan got reduced to a crying febe before Vitiate's lightning. The same would happen to Revan. Also you say Nyriss' lightning is roughly equivalent to Dooku's? Revan needed two hands to deflect her one handed blast. Far from casual.

One handed blast? What? It was a lightning storm, like the one vitiate uses frequently.

Ant is severely lowballing when he says Nyriss' lightning is comparable to Dooku's. Try Sidious'.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Ant is severely lowballing when he says Nyriss' lightning is comparable to Dooku's. Try Sidious'.
I didn't want to sound so demanding, and rather let the reader decide for themselves, which ultimately seems to work better then outright stating something.

So by this logic, your lightning is a powerful as you are?
So Darth Vader, according to your logic, has better lightning then Dooku?
And then Darth Nihilus has the perhaps the greatest lightning in the entire mythos, yet he could only bring Sion to his knees?
And then Darth Malak amped, who could kill a Jedi on contact, has weaker lightning then let's say Darth Maul, despite Maul not even being able to do lightning?
Your logic is awful. And it is kinda funny to see Yoda in S6 just tank Sidious' lightning completely.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
I didn't want to sound so demanding, and rather let the reader decide for themselves, which ultimately seems to work better then outright stating something.

You should change it. Ripping through a Force barrier and still possessing the power to incinerate a Sith Lord is vastly superior to Dooku's feats of possibly killing some random mooks. You'd be giving a false impression to suggest any less and diminishing your point.

Yeah, Sidious' lightning isn't that powerful tbh. I give it a B, maybe stretching to a B+.

I didn't see Luke absorb/deflect shit in RotJ

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
I didn't want to sound so demanding, and rather let the reader decide for themselves, which ultimately seems to work better then outright stating something.

Eh. Nyriss' lightning is superior to Dooku's but not by any massive margin.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Ant is severely lowballing when he says Nyriss' lightning is comparable to Dooku's. Try Sidious'.

Nope.




http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/35981775.jpg

1. Vader can't use lightning, if he could I'd bet my ass it'd be more powerful than Dooku's
2. N-canon
3. Maul has no experience with lightning.
4. Lol even if we count that, its feat for Yoda.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Yeah, Sidious' lightning isn't that powerful tbh. I give it a B, maybe stretching to a B+.

Better than Vitiate's.

Revan would be blasted into unconsciousness (most likely killed) by Sidious level lightning just as Yoda was.

Nyriss not being able to handle her lightning doesn't suggest she has lightning on par with Sidious. It just means she can't handle her own lightning. lol

LOL

I meant if it's not successfully blocked or absorbed, which I doubt Revan would be able to handle Sidious lightning the way Yoda could.

missmith, this is not a topic about gays, so stay out of it.

Given the ease that he handled Nyriss lightning, Revan could certainly replicate Yoda's feat of barely repelling Sidious' lightning.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Eh. Nyriss' lightning is superior to Dooku's but not by any massive margin.

How could it not be by a large margin? Dooku's lightning doesn't even charr the flesh, let alone pack enough power to utterly disintegrate a being of Nyriss' power after ripping through a barrier.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Better than Vitiate's.

Nice opinion. Too bad it's wrong.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
I meant if it's not successfully blocked or absorbed, which I doubt Revan would be able to handle Sidious lightning the way Yoda could.

missmith, this is not a topic about gays, so stay out of it.

I don't think anybody can complain about vitiate wanking when you enter a discussion.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Given the ease that he handled Nyriss lightning, Revan could certainly replicate Yoda's feat of barely repelling Sidious' lightning.


Doubt it given that Sidious' lightning is superior to Vitiate's, being capable of rendering someone as powerful as Yoda unconscious with a single short blast when it's not successfully blocked. Lesser beings have tanked Vitiate's lightning without successfully absorbing it.

As for Dooku, we've never seen him ramp up his lightning on a dark side nexus, so I don't know how you can conclude Nyriss is his superior in that area. Didn't the exile tank her lightning?

nah. The exile's force shield was torn right through and she was put right on her ass. With a single bolt of nyriss's lightning.

Full powered Vitiate's lightning has shown to be stopped only by reaching that Oneness in the force where it is absolute balance. And that's before Vitiate got really pissed.

Originally posted by psmith81992
Full powered Vitiate's lightning has shown to be stopped only by reaching that Oneness in the force where it is absolute balance. And that's before Vitiate got really pissed.
That was Vitiate's mental assault not his lightning.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Doubt it given that Sidious' lightning is superior to Vitiate's, being capable of rendering someone as powerful as Yoda unconscious with a single short blast when it's not successfully blocked. Lesser beings have tanked Vitiate's lightning without successfully absorbing it.

As for Dooku, we've never seen him ramp up his lightning on a dark side nexus, so I don't know how you can conclude Nyriss is his superior in that area. Didn't the exile tank her lightning?

Vitiate's lightning > Sidious'. Lol @ trying to establish that Yoda's better at Tutaminis than Revan by pointing out that he blocked Sidious' lightning which is stronger than Vitiates becuase it knocked Yoda unconscious. That's called a circular argument. The "lesser beings" are people Vitiate wanted alive and Revan himself, so that's also a bunk argument.

It's irrelevant if it was a darkside nexus or if it was charged up, because Revan easily absorbed it despite those two things. All that matters is that the lightning Revan absorbed was significantly more powerful than the one Yoda did in AotC.

The Exile managed to blunt the attack with a barrier, but it still ripped through and pwned her.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
nah. The exile's force shield was torn right through and she was put right on her ass. With a single bolt of nyriss's lightning.


Why didn't it kill her or knock her unconscious? Dooku has put Anakin on his ass several times, and even knocked him unconscious, though it was a protracted attack.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
That was Vitiate's mental assault not his lightning.


Whoops you're right.

Question? When the **** has anyone ever blocked lightning with a force barrier.

Nox did.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Nox did.
Yeah but she also had five ghosts force bound to her.

It can still be done. :shrug:

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Why didn't it kill her or knock her unconscious? Dooku has put Anakin on his ass several times, and even knocked him unconscious, though it was a protracted attack.

Ehh, as I said it was a single bolt of lightning, and her real lightning storm is stated to be capable of incinerating both Scourge and Meetra. And of course as mentioned before, it's capable of ashing herself as well. I personally don't see Dooku's lightning being potent enough to do that.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Vitiate's lightning > Sidious'. Lol @ trying to establish that Yoda's better at Tutaminis than Revan by pointing out that he blocked Sidious' lightning which is stronger than Vitiates becuase it knocked Yoda unconscious. That's called a circular argument. The "lesser beings" are people Vitiate wanted alive and Revan himself, so that's also a bunk argument.

It's irrelevant if it was a darkside nexus or if it was charged up, because Revan easily absorbed it despite those two things. All that matters is that the lightning Revan absorbed was significantly more powerful than the one Yoda did in AotC.

The Exile managed to blunt the attack with a barrier, but it still ripped through and pwned her.


That you're unable to grasp it doesn't make it a bunk argument. Fact is, Sidious' lightning is capable knocking Yoda unconscious when not successfully absorbed. It indicates how powerful his lightning is, considering that we've seen lesser powerful force users, who don't even know how to absorb the attack, being struck by it and not be KO'd. Vitiate's lightning has never instantly KO'd anyone on Yoda's caliber. Even some of Vitiate's opponents who didn't possess the ability to absorb lightning were able to take a protracted assault from him, and were only KO'd after a second charged attack, and none of them were on Yoda's level. We've seen Revan handle his lightning with his saber, and even when he attempted to block it with his hands, it still hit him and all it did was burn him. Whether or not he wanted them alive is irrelevant. He aimed to knock them unconscious, which took more effort from him than it did for Sidious to knock Yoda unconscious.

Sidious' lightning > Vitiate's.

So, Yoda can handle more powerful lightning than Nyriss'. The point I'm making with the dark side nexus, is that Dooku has never shown to utilize the attack on one, therefore you can't conclude her lightning is more powerful than his. Dooku has KO'd many force users while off a nexus, which is more impressive than merely knocking the exile on her ass while on one.

Honestly Sidious's best feat in this field is his lightning starting to bend Windu's Vaapadsaber.

Originally posted by PTforthewin
Nyriss's lightning is tfu 2 starkiller level.
Which is still not Vitiate/Bane/Plagueis/Sidious level.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Honestly Sidious's best feat in this field is his lightning starting to bend Windu's Vaapadsaber.


Not really. Sidious wasn't even trying to kill Windu at that point. He was pretending to be weak in order to manipulate Anakin, and was likely not putting much power in his attack. The fact that Windu was still struggling with it is another indication of how powerful Palpatine's lightning is. Revan and HoT did better in handling Vitiate's lightning with their blades despite being on a dark side nexus.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Not really. Sidious wasn't even trying to kill Windu at that point. He was pretending to be weak in order to manipulate Anakin, and was likely not putting much power in his attack. The fact that Windu was still struggling with it is another indication of how powerful Palpatine's lightning is. Revan and HoT did better in handling Vitiate's lightning despite being on a dark side nexus.
Yeah... that's what I was saying. Revan and HoT had an easier time blocking Vitiate's lightning with a lightsaber than Windu did with a lightsaber and Vaapad.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Given the ease that he handled Nyriss lightning, Revan could certainly replicate Yoda's feat of barely repelling Sidious' lightning.

Considering Sidious' lightning is superior to Galen Marek who can blast an AT-AT and disable it? Nope. InB4 Neph claims its an exaggerated feat.




Because we've never seen Dooku use lightning in a prolonged burst. But considering his short bursts are able to kill multiple force users...yeah I wouldn't doubt that if Dooku charged his lightning it'd be Nyriss level.




Its not an opinion. Force lightning is Sidious' most used ability, its ridiculous to assume his lightning would be inferior to an inferior being's lightning.

Originally posted by psmith81992
I don't think anybody can complain about vitiate wanking when you enter a discussion.

.......

Originally posted by psmith81992
Full powered Vitiate's lightning has shown to be stopped only by reaching that Oneness in the force where it is absolute balance. And that's before Vitiate got really pissed. Originally posted by Emperordmb
That was Vitiate's mental assault not his lightning. Originally posted by psmith81992
Whoops you're right.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
.......






...Wow... That was your rebuttal? You did my job for me, thank you lol.

Originally posted by psmith81992
...Wow... That was your rebuttal? You did my job for me, thank you lol.


I think you need to go back over the post if you're expecting one.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
I think you need to go back over the post if you're expecting one.



http://static.gamespot.com/uploads/original/1320/13204927/2444945-5903787721-19123.jpg

http://up-ship.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/So-it-begins-the-great-shitstorm-of-our-time2.jpg

Your argument does not effect Revan's feat at all, and rather makes it look even better, given that it was on a nexus.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Your argument does not effect Revan's feat at all, and rather makes it look even better, given that it was on a nexus.


The comparison between Dooku and Nyriss wasn't meant to affect Revan's feat.

Mine was.
Yours wasn't.

What now?

Can you repeat that?

Yeah. I didn't really understand the point you were trying to get across there, ant.

I thought you mean't something else, nevermind.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
The comparison between Dooku and Nyriss wasn't meant to affect Revan's feat.

I'm pretty sure it was. Thats what the central point is.

You are learning well.



Just goes to show how great of an effect Force Shields can have on a battle concerning the top tiers.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Fact is, Sidious' lightning is capable knocking Yoda unconscious when not successfully absorbed. It indicates how powerful his lightning is, considering that we've seen lesser powerful force users, who don't even know how to absorb the attack, being struck by it and not be KO'd.
Yes, Sidious's command of lightning application is very impressive. But did it knock Marek and Luke unconscious?

Point is that Yoda is getting old during The Clone Wars era, he is feeling the effects of aging. Yoda's limitations do not necessarily apply to younger (powerful) Force-users. I never buy the Yoda's invincibility mantra, I won't be surprised even Nyriss manages to injure Yoda with her lightning casts. The sooner people understand this, the better.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Vitiate's lightning has never instantly KO'd anyone on Yoda's caliber.
Depends upon the intent of Vitiate and defensive abilities of the opponent. Vitiate can kill even the strongest of the Jedi with his lightning bursts, if not outright KO them.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Even some of Vitiate's opponents who didn't possess the ability to absorb lightning were able to take a protracted assault from him, and were only KO'd after a second charged attack, and none of them were on Yoda's level.
You are referring to the Jedi Strike Team led by Tol Braga here; every Jedi in this Strike Team had the ability to absorb lightning but all of them got overwhelmed. Warren and Leeha got overwhelmed almost instantly while Braga and HoT resisted for a couple of seconds before succumbing. However, every Jedi got disarmed (lightsabers destroyed) and eventually fell.

Now, the most important aspect of this battle is the intent of Vitiate who made the decision to use these Jedi as his puppets, this is why he didn't reduce any Jedi to ash in this battle. Otherwise, do you seriously think that Emperor Vitiate couldn't reduce any Jedi to ash in this battle if he could do this to Revan?

So the key aspect of the battle is INTENT.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
We've seen Revan handle his lightning with his saber, and even when he attempted to block it with his hands, it still hit him and all it did was burn him. Whether or not he wanted them alive is irrelevant. He aimed to knock them unconscious, which took more effort from him than it did for Sidious to knock Yoda unconscious.
Once again INTENT is very important. Yes, Revan found it easy to counter (limited) lightning casts of Vitiate due to his immense proficiency in matters of defending himself against Sith powers but once Vitiate decided to terminate Revan, that was it. Just a minor exposure to proper FLS left Revan severely injured. Now, if T3-M4 had not intervened at this point, worst would have happened; Revan might have ended up as a pile of ash like Nyriss earlier. Now, keep in mind that the entire duel between Revan and Emperor Vitiate lasted just few seconds. So its not like as if Revan sustained the proper FLS for a quiet a time, not more then a second at tops.

Afterwards, when Revan stood up to face Emperor Vitiate, he one-shot the mighty Jedi with just a casual burst of his lightning. Yes, the Jedi was distracted at this point but he would still have erected a barrier at minimum.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Sidious' lightning > Vitiate's.
No, not by any stretch of imagination.

Revan is more proficient at defending himself then Yoda against Sith powers, whether you like this or not. And Emperor Vitiate could utterly destroy Revan in a short while with just his lighning barrage alone.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
So, Yoda can handle more powerful lightning than Nyriss'. The point I'm making with the dark side nexus, is that Dooku has never shown to utilize the attack on one, therefore you can't conclude her lightning is more powerful than his. Dooku has KO'd many force users while off a nexus, which is more impressive than merely knocking the exile on her ass while on one.
Once again, you are not properly evaluating this matter.

Nyriss is likely more proficient in lightning application then Dooku is. The entire nexus argument is misplaced, Dromund Kaas isn't a nexus of the dark side on the whole and neither it has been stated that Nyriss tapped in to a nearby nexus to augment her powers at the time of combat against Jedi.

Even a casual lightning cast of Nyriss was potent enough to reduce normal individuals to ash and stop powerful individuals on their tracks. A proper FLS from her was potent enough to destroy powerful individuals, individuals of at-least Dooku caliber, which is still formidable display of power.

Emperor's lightning casts are stated to much deadlier then even Nyriss's casts. One would shudder to think what he would do to Yoda.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Even a casual lightning cast of Nyriss was potent enough to reduce normal individuals to ash
Nope. It only reduced them to charred husks.

Still better then anything Dooku has done.
Regardless, it was powerful enough to have been said to put *both* Meetra and Scourge to ash.
"A dozen bolts of lightning sprang from Nyriss's hand, arcing across the room to incinerate her enemies."

Also, S_W_LeGenD, thoughts on my blog/thread?

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Still better then anything Dooku has done.
Regardless, it was powerful enough to have been said to put *both* Meetra and Scourge to ash.
"A dozen bolts of lightning sprang from Nyriss's hand, arcing across the room to incinerate her enemies."

Also, S_W_LeGenD, thoughts on my blog/thread?


How the hell is charring 2 non-force sensitive mooks superior to killing 4 and them 6+

Because Dooku failed to even char them. Based on the images, it even looks like it takes a prolonged storm to even do that for Dooku. Meanwhile, Nyriss killed them instantly, and in a superior fashion.
Though there is no debate turning Meetra/Scourge to ash>>anything Dooku has done.

In the dream sequence, Dooku killed almost a dozen clones with a blast of lightning, and their corpses were charred, which is better than Nyriss's Nexus feat. Off-Nexus, I would think that Nyriss' lightning would be lesser than Dooku's.

However, It's a different case when discussing Nyriss's Force Storm, which is much more powerful than her base lightning. Even off-Nexus, it's probably on Malgus's level.

As for are Revan, it doesn't matter either way--He absorbed and redirected Nyriss's Force Storm while on a Nexus. Two things to point out, though. Unlike Yoda, who only used one hand to turn back the lightning, Revan had to use both. Secondly, it never implies that he did this easily as you are claiming, it simply describes the event. It's still a far cry from being better than matching Palpatine's FL, even if it's similarly impressive.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
In the dream sequence, Dooku killed almost a dozen clones with a blast of lightning, and their corpses were charred,
Their corpses were charred?

Dream sequence feat? Lol.

Plus there were only 5. "Almost a dozen?" Try less than half a dozen. AND they weren't charred.

Unless you're talking about a different dream sequence than the Yoda vs Sidious one.

Actually, Rex himself was still moving in the dream sequence.
Ultra fail on Dooku's part.

You mean dream Dooku, right? The guy who got shitstomped by Anakin in 10 seconds. What a badass.

He solos the Mortis family imo.

This was longer than I wanted it to be. I'll be more succinct in the future.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
That you're unable to grasp it doesn't make it a bunk argument.

Please don't insult my intelligence, of course I can grasp your reasoning. It's just not good reasoning. Your argument is terrible. Just bare in mind that the sarcasm isn't super serious here.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Fact is, Sidious' lightning is capable knocking Yoda unconscious when not successfully absorbed.

And we've seen Vitiate's lightning knock the Strike Team out easily when not successfully absorbed. You're just assuming that Yoda's incomplete defense (do I need to explain why it was incomplete?) is more effective than the combined power of the Strike Team or Revan's tutaminis.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
It indicates how powerful his lightning is, considering that we've seen lesser powerful force users, who don't even know how to absorb the attack, being struck by it and not be KO'd.

Are you referring to Vitiates lightning at the end here? Obviously a (casual) Force Storms power is spread out over a wide area as opposed to a concentrated burst. Many of the bolts of lightning don't get even close to the team, so a lot of power is wasted on useless lightning strikes. That it didn't KO the Strike Team means nothing about Vitiates actual lightning. Also lmao at the idea that they didn't know how to absorb lightning.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Vitiate's lightning has never instantly KO'd anyone on Yoda's caliber. Even some of Vitiate's opponents who didn't possess the ability to absorb lightning were able to take a protracted assault from him, and were only KO'd after a second charged attack, and none of them were on Yoda's level.

I am laughing right now about how the Strike Team apparently doesn't know how to block lightning. Yeah, I'm sure Tol Braga brought people on the mission who don't know how to block lightning. Obviously. Oh wait, they weren't going to fight a Sith were they? Eh, I'm sure they didn't think it was an important skill to have.

Also even if there's not one on Yoda's level, there was 4 of them remember? So none of them need to be for their combined power to be greater to or equal to than his.

And finally you're again just assuming that Revan isn't on Yoda's level. Since this is what the entire argument is about, that's the silliest thing you could do.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
We've seen Revan handle his lightning with his saber, and even when he attempted to block it with his hands, it still hit him and all it did was burn him.

Yes, it's totally not as if Revan was actively trying to absorb the attack or anything at the time, significantly weakening the effects of it.

Let me try this: We see Yoda blocking it with his hands without being overwhelmed, so Sidious' lightning is weaker than Vitiates that pwned Revan who also tried to block with his hands but WAS overwhelmed. Since I've already decided for myself that Revan's tutaminis is superior, Vitiates feat is vastly better than Sidious'.

Confirmation bias ftw.

Also this doesn't even make sense. Wouldn't it be more impressive than Sidious' lightning which didn't burn Yoda? Surely the attack that did more physical damage is the greater one? Just because Yoda was knocked out and Revan wasn't doesn't mean the attack was greater, just that Yoda is more of a pussy than Revan. Since he was knocked out by an attack that did less actual damage than the attack Revan tanked.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Whether or not he wanted them alive is irrelevant. He aimed to knock them unconscious, which took more effort from him than it did for Sidious to knock Yoda unconscious.

Sidious' lightning > Vitiate's.

Presupposing that Yoda's incomplete defense >> The lightsaber defense of 4 of the most powerful Jedi of the era. Seems legit.

Vitiate defeated the Strike Team "easily." It didn't take him effort at all.

Wait, let me try this too: We saw Sidious shock Luke and he wasn't even made unconscious. It took more effort for Sidious to fail to kill Luke than it did Vitiate to knock the Strike Team unconscious. Because whether or not the person is holding back isn't a factor.

Vitiate > Sidious. Terrible logic ftw!


To sum it up, your entire argument revolves around the assumption that Yoda's weak defense was still stronger than the Strike Teams and Revan efforts.

And you're still making the circular argument that Yoda's defense is better because Sidious' lightning is better because it knocked Yoda out whose defenses are better than Revans because he blocked Sidious' lightning which is better because it knocked Yoda out who is better because he blocked Sidious' lightning which is better because it knocked Yoda out.

Again, your entire argument can just be summed up as Yoda > Revan. Which isn't a real argument, it's an opinion. Come up with a way to establish Sidious' lightning without using Yoda himself.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
So, Yoda can handle more powerful lightning than Nyriss'. The point I'm making with the dark side nexus, is that Dooku has never shown to utilize the attack on one, therefore you can't conclude her lightning is more powerful than his. Dooku has KO'd many force users while off a nexus, which is more impressive than merely knocking the exile on her ass while on one.

Your basic idea here is pretty solid. Dooku may have lightning on her level if he was on a nexus (which Dromund Kaas still isn't established as btw) and had charged it up like she had. But like I said, that's completely and utterly irrelevant and I don't give a shit. The only important thing is that the lightning she used against Revan, regardless of how amped it was, was far superior to the lightning that Dooku used against Yoda. Therefore making Revan more impressive since he handled it without notable effort whilst Yoda had to strain to block Dooku's. Leave Dooku vs Nyriss to a versus thread.

Also Dooku usually uses only lightning when characters are open to it. The people he's KO'd with it aren't shown to be actively blocking it like Meetra was. His standard lightning is in no way better than hers because of it.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Honestly Sidious's best feat in this field is his lightning starting to bend Windu's Vaapadsaber.

Which isn't even an actual feat because it never happened.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Because Dooku failed to even char them. Based on the images, it even looks like it takes a prolonged storm to even do that for Dooku. Meanwhile, Nyriss killed them instantly, and in a superior fashion.
Though there is no debate turning Meetra/Scourge to ash>>anything Dooku has done.

Not really. Maybe with the Kiffar but not with the Nightbrothers, hell in the time it takes Brother Viscious to jump, the nightbrothers are all massacred by the lightning. The burst couldn't have lasted more than a second. Also we never see Dooku use lightning on a nexus.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
How the hell is charring 2 non-force sensitive mooks superior to killing 4 and them 6+

Seriously? The power needed to utterly disintegrate (incinerate means turn to ash, not charr) two powerful Force users is far more than whats needed to just kill a few people. It's simple science. It takes around 3 gigajoules to vaporise a human and that's not even accounting for force defenses. It's much, much, much less to just kill someone.

http://i39.servimg.com/u/f39/17/73/92/12/dooku_10.jpg
Don't lie to yourself at night.
The lightning to the Nightbrothers were capable enough to knock a majority back onto the ground, despite them being in a mid-air jump, before it killed them.
In fact, you see the one in front groaning in pain. Meanwhile, the soldiers Nyriss killed barely had time to put out a mere scream.


Don't care, for it doesn't affect my argument.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Seriously? The power needed to utterly disintegrate (incinerate means turn to ash, not charr) two powerful Force users is far more than whats needed to just kill a few people. It's simple science. It takes around 3 gigajoules to vaporise a human and that's not even accounting for force defenses. It's much, much, much less to just kill someone.








I'm comparing her base lightning not here storm here. Read my post next time.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
http://i39.servimg.com/u/f39/17/73/92/12/dooku_10.jpg
Don't lie to yourself at night.
The lightning to the Nightbrothers were capable enough to knock a majority back onto the ground, despite them being in a mid-air jump, before it killed them.
In fact, you see the one in front groaning in pain. Meanwhile, the soldiers Nyriss killed barely had time to put out a mere scream.


Don't care, for it doesn't affect my argument.


Oh but it does. Because Revan, being a user of both the Light and Dark Side would be affected by the nexus on Droumund Kaas.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
I'm comparing her base lightning not here storm here. Read my post next time.

Eh, my basic point is the same. The energy needed to turn 2 men into charred husks is far greater than what is needed to kill even 2 times as many people.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Oh but it does. Because Revan, being a user of both the Light and Dark Side would be affected by the nexus on Droumund Kaas.

Wouldn't a nexus weaken him by the same amount it amped him in that case? Revan was negatively affected by the nexus on Nathema, remember.

Ah, finally someone brings that up. Good. http://r26.imgfast.net/users/2613/36/14/96/smiles/3177439056.gif
You are making a false assumption here. He wields them both with raw, equal power. The Dark would be amped by the powers of Dromaund Kaas. Meanwhile, the Light would be tampered with and made weaker, as obvious. It would take, logically, the same as not being on a nexus, or even greater effort, to balance the two forces out. You do realize how incredibly difficult it is to balance it out even without being on a nexus? That is why like no one does it.
However, even ignoring this, his Dark powers would be amped the same as Nyriss' lightning, so it would equal out regardless. Try again.

Originally posted by Nephthys
You mean dream Dooku, right? The guy who got shitstomped by Anakin in 10 seconds. What a badass.

ikr

It's funny, I was just thinking that I need to stop being so aggressive in debates this morning but I still seem to be being needlessly sarcastic and mocking. Curse my filthy mind!

Originally posted by Nephthys
Eh, my basic point is the same. The energy needed to turn 2 men into charred husks is far greater than what is needed to kill even 2 times as many people.

Hardly.
Merriam Webster
Char-
to burn slightly or partly

As shown in TCWs and in AOTCs Anakin and Savage both smoke when hit by Dooku's lightning and thus are both charred, but neither of them are dead. So yes killing someone takes more power than charring them. In fact just because they weren't drawn to be smoldering after Dooku's attack doesn't mean they weren't.



Probably not. Nathema was painful because it was ridiculously tilted to the Dark Side. A typical DS nexus makes it harder for LS users to use the lightside because it tempts them with the power of the Dark Side. Considering Revan wouldn't have to resist the allure of the Dark Side because he's already using it I don't think it'd affect him as much as it'd boost him.
(Kinda like in KOTOR II when you have the choice as a companion to embrace the DS and get a stat boost or resist it and get a stat decrease).

But it would, or at least make it the same. For he would then have to put in the power to balance the weakened Light with the amped Dark. An incredibly hard task.

Nathema was not a Nexus.

Nathema was the strongest nexus ever created.

Malachor V.

Doesn't Meetra say that Nathema is worse? And didn't Revan shit his pants on it?

Swtore does say that Nathema is the largest darkside nexus, if nothing else.

Malachor V made Nihilus.
Nathema made shit.

But, yeah Neph, where does it say Nathema was a nexus?
It was rather an absence of all Force iirc, the complete opposite of a nexus.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
But it would, or at least make it the same. For he would then have to put in the power to balance the weakened Light with the amped Dark. An incredibly hard task.


But the Dark Side as per GL is stronger than the light so it'd make the individual more powerful.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
But, yeah Neph, where does it say Nathema was a nexus?
It was rather an absence of all Force iirc, the complete opposite of a nexus.

I know, its dumb. But it says it in Swtore.

"Lord Vitiate orchestrated the ritual and the planet Medriaas was consumed in the largest darkside nexus the galaxy would ever see."

It then ALSO calls it a Void in the Force, so idkwtf they were thinking.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
But the Dark Side as per GL is stronger than the light so it'd make the individual more powerful.
When did GL say that? That goes against the whole Chosen One and Mortis trilogy.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
When did GL say that? That goes against the whole Chosen One and Mortis trilogy.

"...to become the most powerful Jedi, and the only way you can really do that is to go to the Dark side because the Dark side is more powerful. If you want the ultimate power you really have to go to the stronger side, which is the Dark side..."-AOTCs commentary.

That doesn't mean ds nexuses effect peeps stronger than it weakens the lightside users.

Interesting. However, that doesn't hurt my argument. Allow me to explain.:
Assuming the Dark's amp is greater then the light's weakness:
Let us make up a number assuming the nexus grants Revan a 5% power increase in Dark Side power.
Let us also assume, according to Lucas, it grants Revan a -3% depletion of Light Side power.
At the minute, Revan is still being amped by the Dark Side nexus from the 2%, but marginally.
However, Revan would still have to balance out the -3% and the 5%. He would have to lose energy getting them equal, which would be, for this example, 1%.
Yes, Revan would be receiving a 1% power increase.
However, Nyriss would be still receiving the full 5% power increase.
Revan would be a -4% weaker position in power then normal.
Ultimately, the fact Nyriss is on a nexus hurts Revan more then it helps him.

Assuming the Dark's amp is equal to the light's weakness:
If we take it still that they it hurts them equally, which is the more logical, and fits in par with the Mortis trilogy arch, Revan would be even more hurt by the Dark Side nexus, at a 0% powerboost.
He would be at a -5% weaker position in power then normal.

Either way, Nyriss' amp hurts Revan more then it helps him.

Also Revan wasn't exactly in top shape anyway at that point, so it doesn't matter.

Originally posted by Nephthys
That doesn't mean ds nexuses effect peeps stronger than it weakens the lightside users.

So lets say Revan's DS= 60% of his power, and his LS=40% of his power. The nexus decreases LS users by 10% and increases DS users by 10%

60%*20%= 12% increase
40%*20%= 8% decrease.

So even if it affects them evenly Revan still has a net increase in power of 4%

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Interesting. However, that doesn't hurt my argument. Allow me to explain.:
Assuming the Dark's amp is greater then the light's weakness:
Let us make up a number assuming the nexus grants Revan a 5% power increase in Dark Side power.
Let us also assume, according to Lucas, it grants Revan a -3% depletion of Light Side power.
At the minute, Revan is still being amped by the Dark Side nexus from the 2%, but marginally.
However, Revan would still have to balance out the -3% and the 5%. He would have to lose energy getting them equal, which would be, for this example, 1%.
Yes, Revan would be receiving a 1% power increase.
However, Nyriss would be still receiving the full 5% power increase.
Revan would be a -4% weaker position in power then normal.
Ultimately, the fact Nyriss is on a nexus hurts Revan more then it helps him.

Assuming the Dark's amp is equal to the light's weakness:
If we take it still that they it hurts them equally, which is the more logical, and fits in par with the Mortis trilogy arch, Revan would be even more hurt by the Dark Side nexus, at a 0% powerboost.
He would be at a 5% weaker position in power then normal.

Either way, Nyriss' amp hurts Revan more then it helps him.

No because Revan has a stronger connection to the force than Nyriss without the nexus thus gets a larger boost. In other words 2.5% of 100 is just as good as 5% of 50.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Also Revan wasn't exactly in top shape anyway at that point, so it doesn't matter.

Yeah him being on a nexus would mitigate this.

You are already wrong, he wields them equally. If anything, his Lightside power would be superior, considering he was the "Champion of the Light."

That is not how a nexus works, to my knowledge. Revan is not said to have been actively drawing on it, and is said to rather be his "raw power."
Meanwhile, Nyriss is most likely drawing on the nexus, but that is also speculation. Therefore since they are both not officially drawing on it, the amp they receive is equal and automatic.
Therefore, their Dark Side power increase should be the same, or Nyriss' superior.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
So lets say Revan's DS= 60% of his power, and his LS=40% of his power. The nexus decreases LS users by 10% and increases DS users by 10%

60%*20%= 12% increase
40%*20%= 8% decrease.

So even if it affects them evenly Revan still has a net increase in power of 4%

Except if anything Revan is more Jedi than he is Sith and theres the whole thing about him possessing both sides of the Force in balance.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
No because Revan has a stronger connection to the force than Nyriss without the nexus thus gets a larger boost. In other words 2.5% of 100 is just as good as 5% of 50.

It isn't about percentages. A darkside nexus is an area in which the Force has been corrupted towards the darkside/ the darkside is strong. The nexus' effects are therefore dependent on the power of the nexus itself, not the person on it.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Yeah him being on a nexus would mitigate this.

Highly doubtful.

This.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Except if anything Revan is more Jedi than he is Sith and theres the whole thing about him possessing both sides of the Force in balance.

If they are in balance though the Dark Side is stronger. And you can still be a light side darksider.




Simply incorrect. The force connects through individuals via the midiclorians. The more midichlorians you have the easier the force passes through you like a conduit. Meaning that if you are on a nexus that enhances that connection your power will increase exponentially based on your unaltered power.




I doubt he'd have been able to recover that fast if he weren't on a nexus.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Hardly.
Merriam Webster
Char-
to burn slightly or partly

As shown in TCWs and in AOTCs Anakin and Savage both smoke when hit by Dooku's lightning and thus are both charred, but neither of them are dead. So yes killing someone takes more power than charring them. In fact just because they weren't drawn to be smoldering after Dooku's attack doesn't mean they weren't.

Char:


1. To partially burn so as to blacken the surface.

1. To burn the surface of; scorch.
2. To reduce to carbon or charcoal by incomplete combustion.

Char basically means to scorch something black, like when you burn your sausages. Furthermore, the two men where described as being reduced to charred and smoking husks, which means they were burnt far more severely than just smoking a bit.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Char:


1. To partially burn so as to blacken the surface.

1. To burn the surface of; scorch.
2. To reduce to carbon or charcoal by incomplete combustion.

Char basically means to scorch something black, like when you burn your sausages. Furthermore, the two men where described as being reduced to charred and smoking husks, which means they were burnt far more severely than just smoking a bit.


Merriam webster is far more reputable than some random online definition. So nice try.

Why do you fail to grasp such a simple concept?
If the Dark Side is stronger, Revan must use more energy to balance it out with the Light.

Except it would be the same amount of Force energy flowing through both, so they will both amp the same amount of midiclorians.
However, we are getting far off from the original topic.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Merriam webster is far more reputable than some random online definition. So nice try.

Webster says the same thing.

: to convert to charcoal or carbon usually by heat

Which you must have known since the definition you used was the 2nd one listed after the one above. But I suppose you didn't post it because it makes your argument look bad, huh?

Also reputation is irrelevant.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
If they are in balance though the Dark Side is stronger. And you can still be a light side darksider.

Do you... not understand the meaning of the word balance?

Revan isn't a lightside darkside though.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Simply incorrect. The force connects through individuals via the midiclorians. The more midichlorians you have the easier the force passes through you like a conduit. Meaning that if you are on a nexus that enhances that connection your power will increase exponentially based on your unaltered power.

That's simply not how a nexus works. As Ant said it would be the same increase no matter what.

Regardless of what you say though, it's nothing more than meaningless speculation that I can easily just dismiss or ignore. It's pointless to talk about such theoretical matters.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
I doubt he'd have been able to recover that fast if he weren't on a nexus.

A nexus which would barely be affecting him, if at all. Regardless, Revan would be weakened from his imprisonment and the nexus while only amped by the nexus. Even if the darkside nexus amped him more than it weakened him, the imprisonment would cancel that out or tip the balance to him not being 100%.

Of course, it also goes without saying that its never stated he was tapping into the nexus.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Also, S_W_LeGenD, thoughts on my blog/thread?
Nice work.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Please don't insult my intelligence, of course I can grasp your reasoning. It's just not good reasoning. Your argument is terrible. Just bare in mind that the sarcasm isn't super serious here.


You're insulting your own intelligence by not grasping my point and calling my argument circular logic. It's not circular logic just because you can't grasp it.

Circular logic would be more like, Yoda was unaffected by being hit by a blast of lightning which was potent enough to knock him unconscious moments before,



Originally posted by Nephthys
And we've seen Vitiate's lightning knock the Strike Team out easily when not successfully absorbed.


With one prolonged attack and another charged one. Sidious used a very short blast on Yoda which was sufficient to knock him unconscious on contact.


Originally posted by Nephthys
You're just assuming that Yoda's incomplete defense (do I need to explain why it was incomplete?) is more effective than the combined power of the Strike Team or Revan's tutaminis.


That he didn't successfully absorb it, and rather attempted to block it with one hand doesn't take away the impressiveness of Sidious's attack. I didn't say Yoda used his best defense against Sidious' first attack on him, which is absorbing it with two hands, but again, we've seen less powerful individuals, who don't even know force absorption, being struck by lightning by other sith and not be instantly KO'd.



Originally posted by Nephthys
Are you referring to Vitiates lightning at the end here? Obviously a (casual) Force Storms power is spread out over a wide area as opposed to a concentrated burst. Many of the bolts of lightning don't get even close to the team, so a lot of power is wasted on useless lightning strikes.


Some of Sidious bolts missed Yoda during the final sequence of the fight. Does that suggest some of the power was wasted?

You're being really petty and grasping at straws. The first attack seemed to have hit them individual rather than all at once. The second charged attack his what hit them and finished the ones remaining.


Originally posted by Nephthys
That it didn't KO the Strike Team means nothing about Vitiates actual lightning.


It certainly does if you're trying to make a comparison between his lightning and Palpatine's. All of the lightning attacks that Vitiate used on single individuals were handled by those individuals, especially with sabers despite Vitiate being a dark side nexus. On the other hand, a weaker version of Palpatine's lightning gave Windu, who was sunk into vapaad, far more of struggle than Vitiate's nexus enhanced lightning. Hell, even Yoda couldn't contain Sidious lightning with his saber despite his force enhanced strength.



Originally posted by Nephthys
I am laughing right now about how the Strike Team apparently doesn't know how to block lightning. Yeah, I'm sure Tol Braga brought people on the mission who don't know how to block lightning. Obviously. Oh wait, they weren't going to fight a Sith were they?


I guess Fisto, Kolar and Tiin knew how to absorb lightning as well since they were going to face a sith. Even Windu only showed to be able to block a lightning attack with his saber. I guess that also means Obi Wan and Anakin knew how to absorb lightning considering they were sent to fight Dooku more than once. Oh, wait, Dooku has rendered Anakin unconscious.

Lol at you trying to imply that they knew force absorption because they were going to fight a sith, and then suggesting Yoda didn't have his force defense up when going to face a sith.

Unless your referring to them being able to block lightning with their sabers, which is irrelevant because some of them failed to block it with their sabers and some were only stunned when hit, not instantly KO'd.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Also even if there's not one on Yoda's level, there was 4 of them remember? So none of them need to be for their combined power to be greater to or equal to than his.


Talking about terrible logic. Yes, Yoda is possibly more powerful than them combined at that point considering Vitiate was, who isn't even as powerful as ROTS Sidious, who is in turn Yoda's equal.

I can easily suggest that Palpatine would easily plaster Vitiate to a wall with TK because he did so to Maul and Savage. The ease in which Sidious was easily able to manipulate them with TK alone, even while he was falling, would suggest that he is more than twice as powerful than them combined, which means Sidious > 2 Mauls and 2 Savages. I can do some math too.

Don't give me that crap that Vitiate can take Yoda because he took out a strike team consisting of 4 jedi.


Originally posted by Nephthys
And finally you're again just assuming that Revan isn't on Yoda's level.


The fact that you're suggesting something so stupid, you sure in the hell have no right to accuse anyone of lowballing Nyriss by putting her lightning on Dooku's level. Revan is not on Yoda's level. Stop with your ridiculous wanking in order to make Vitiate seem more impressive than he actually is.



Originally posted by Nephthys
Yes, it's totally not as if Revan was actively trying to absorb the attack or anything at the time, significantly weakening the effects of it.


And you can clearly see Yoda attempt to block Sidious's attack with one hand, so I guess it too significantly weakened Sidious attack. Guess what, though, Yoda was blasted into unconsciousness, Revan wasn't.

And don't give me this crap about Yoda being surprised. What was he surprised by? Sidious using a standard sith attack, which Yoda is very familar with?

Originally posted by Nephthys
Let me try this: We see Yoda blocking it with his hands without being overwhelmed, so Sidious' lightning is weaker than Vitiates that pwned Revan who also tried to block with his hands but WAS overwhelmed.


Yoda was visibly showing signs of strain and pain, and this was a prolonged lightning attack from Sidious, whose lightning would otherwise be potent enough to render Yoda unconscious in a single very short blast if it weren't for his mastery of force absorption. The fact that Yoda was handling a very prolonged attack from Sidious, who was pouring lightning down Yoda, would suggest Yoda's proficiency and mastery of absorption.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Since I've already decided for myself that Revan's tutaminis is superior, Vitiates feat is vastly better than Sidious'.


Yeah, you also decided that Scourge was Maul level because he defeated lots of nameless/featless warriors in his hundreds of years of existence.

The fact that Sidious' lightning feats have shown to be more potent while off a nexus than Vitiate's are while on one, would suggest that Yoda's feat of handling Palpatine's lightning is far greater than Revan handling Vitiate's.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Confirmation bias ftw.


Yes, LeGenD's corruption of you is complete.



Originally posted by Nephthys
Also this doesn't even make sense. Wouldn't it be more impressive than Sidious' lightning which didn't burn Yoda?


Now your comparing a human's skin to that of Yoda's, which seems to be very reptilian-like? We seen smoke and left over residue of lightning on Yoda.

Also, Palpatine's lightning was said to tear through Maul's organs (Shadow Conspiracy) yet there were no signs of burns on his body. Plagueis poured lightning into a prophetess and boiled her blood, which left no signs of burns on her body.


Originally posted by Nephthys
Presupposing that Yoda's incomplete defense >> The lightsaber defense of 4 of the most powerful Jedi of the era. Seems legit.


Some of their sabers didn't block the attack, and some were only stunned when hit. Just like Ventress' and the nightsister's sabers didn't block Dooku's lightning, which means that having a saber is irrelevant unless it's successful in actually blocking the attack.

Also, Palpatine has blasted Yoda's saber from his hands in a short burst. He'd have no trouble in blasting through their saber defenses considering their force enhanced strength do no compare to Yoda's. None of them would have the strength to hold on to their sabers and push through.


Originally posted by Nephthys
Vitiate defeated the Strike Team "easily." It didn't take him effort at all.


It took one prolonged attack and one charged one to render them unconscious. It took a single short blast from Sidious to render Yoda unconscious.


Originally posted by Nephthys
Wait, let me try this too: We saw Sidious shock Luke and he wasn't even made unconscious.


Palpatine is sadistic and was getting a terrible pleasure from seeing Luke on the ground in agony. The fact that Palpatine was constantly pausing his attack to gloat should tell you as much. This wasn't a combat situation between him and Luke.



Originally posted by Nephthys
Vitiate > Sidious. Terrible logic ftw!


Not really. I could just as easily suggest that Sidious was holding back on his attack considering it was very short and he relented once Yoda was unconscious. Fact is, Vitiate was aiming to render them unconscious and it took more power from him than it did for Sidious to render Yoda unconscious.

Originally posted by Nephthys
To sum it up, your entire argument revolves around the assumption that Yoda's weak defense was still stronger than the Strike Teams and Revan efforts.


The only defense the strike team had were their sabers, some of which failed to block the attack with them. Sidious has blasted Yoda's saber right out of his hands.

As for the comparison between Yoda and Revan, Yoda has shown that he can block Palpatine's lightning when he uses his force absorption ability. So, yes, Yoda >> Revan. To suggest Revan is a Yoda level force user is beyond fan wanking. Hell, based on feats and accolades, I could make a better case for Dooku being capable of defeating Vitiate in combat, if you really want to be silly.


Originally posted by Nephthys
And you're still making the circular argument.


Learn what a circular argument is before you try to insult mine. Again, Yoda being capable of absorbing energy that is otherwise potent enough to blast him unconscious had he not mastered the ability of force absorption, is not a circular argument.

Dooku has rendered Ventress unconscious with force lightning. Now, let's say shortly after, Ventress had learned how to absorb lightning with her hands, this wouldn't take away the impressiveness of Dooku's lightning when it did Knock her out. It would just mean that she learned of a defense of absorbing lightning that would otherwise be powerful enough to take her out.


Originally posted by Nephthys
Again, your entire argument can just be summed up as Yoda > Revan. Which isn't a real argument, it's an opinion. Come up with a way to establish Sidious' lightning without using Yoda himself.


Since you're unable to grasp it, then sure: Sidious has scorched a sith worm to ash; a weak version of his lightning was giving Mace, who was sunk deep in vapaad, a struggle. Conversely, both HoT and Revan have both handled Vitiate's lightning with their blade quite well despite being on a dark side nexus.



Originally posted by Nephthys
The only important thing is that the lightning she used against Revan, regardless of how amped it was, was far superior to the lightning that Dooku used against Yoda. Therefore making Revan more impressive since he handled it without notable effort whilst Yoda had to strain to block Dooku's. Leave Dooku vs Nyriss to a versus thread.


Which, again, wasn't my point. I clarified that yesterday. My comparison between them was directed at your attempts to constantly lowball Dooku (not just in this thread but others as well), who has shown to be greater than the opponents whom Vitiate has struggled with in combat.

This is why people like Carthage lowballs characters like Vitiate, because the wanking of him and the characters who defeated him is getting outright ridiculous. Although I don't always agree with Carthage, he does make valid points when he lowballs, and seems to call it as he sees it.

(no offense to you Emperordmb. I know you're one of Carthage's most frequent targets, but from what I see, you do seem more reasonable than most)

Originally posted by Nephthys
Also Dooku usually uses only lightning when characters are open to it. The people he's KO'd with it aren't shown to be actively blocking it like Meetra was. His standard lightning is in no way better than hers because of it.


Force barriers and defenses are invisible and are usually active when a force user is in a combat situation. How do you think Anakin was resisting Dooku's attack before finally being KO'd? Obviously the force is used to resist energy based attacks regardless of whether or not they know force absorption, which goes back to my other point that Yoda absorbing Palpatine's lightning that is otherwise potent enough to render him unconscious, is not circular logic.



Originally posted by Nephthys
Which isn't even an actual feat because it never happened.


He was still shown to struggle against Palpatine's weaker version of lightning, which wasn't intended to kill him, but rather to manipulate Anakin in choosing sides.

You seem like a cool guy, but why are you so obsessed with Revan?

Because someone has to be.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
With one prolonged attack and another charged one. Sidious used a very short blast on Yoda which was sufficient to knock him unconscious on contact.

When Yoda couldn't put up his full defenses.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
That he didn't successfully absorb it, and rather attempted to block it with one hand doesn't take away the impressiveness of Sidious's attack. I didn't say Yoda used his best defense against Sidious' first attack on him, which is absorbing it with two hands, but again, we've seen less powerful individuals, who don't even know force absorption, being struck by lightning by other sith and not be instantly KO'd.

Excuse me? Of course it takes away the impressiveness of Sidious' attack. A lot. You keep going on about how Sidious blasted a being "as powerful as Yoda" into unconsciousness, but Yoda wasn't able to marshall all of his power against Sidious. So it's a dumb point. You should say Sidious managed to knock out a being "as powerful as a Yoda who wasn't able to really defend well at the time".

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Some of Sidious bolts missed Yoda during the final sequence of the fight. Does that suggest some of the power was wasted?

You're being really petty and grasping at straws. The first attack seemed to have hit them individual rather than all at once. The second charged attack his what hit them and finished the ones remaining.

Possibly.

What? You can clearly see lightning striking the ground around them. It's a Force Storm, it's an attack that covers a wide area with repeated lightning strikes. Not all of the attacks are going to hit the targets. It only hit them individually in that each were hit by different strikes of lightning.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
It certainly does if you're trying to make a comparison between his lightning and Palpatine's. All of the lightning attacks that Vitiate used on single individuals were handled by those individuals, especially with sabers despite Vitiate being a dark side nexus. On the other hand, a weaker version of Palpatine's lightning gave Windu, who was sunk into vapaad, far more of struggle than Vitiate's nexus enhanced lightning. Hell, even Yoda couldn't contain Sidious lightning with his saber despite his force enhanced strength.

They're completely different attacks, so there's not really a good comparison. It's like comparing a Force Wave to a Force Push. A Force Wave will obviously not hit someone with the entire wave, will it? The power is spread out over a large area. Also it wasn't a nexus, it was a space station.

Revan didn't handle Vitiates lightning bro.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
I guess Fisto, Kolar and Tiin knew how to absorb lightning as well since they were going to face a sith. Even Windu only showed to be able to block a lightning attack with his saber. I guess that also means Obi Wan and Anakin knew how to absorb lightning considering they were sent to fight Dooku more than once. Oh, wait, Dooku has rendered Anakin unconscious.

Lol at you trying to imply that they knew force absorption because they were going to fight a sith, and then suggesting Yoda didn't have his force defense up when going to face a sith.

Unless your referring to them being able to block lightning with their sabers, which is irrelevant because some of them failed to block it with their sabers and some were only stunned when hit, not instantly KO'd.

Well yeah, probably. AotC Kenobi did and I doubt he was better trained than those guys were. Especially since I bet they trained during the Clone Wars to better fight Dooku.

And yeah, I am referring to them blocking with lightsabers. Though obviously they could use Force barriers as well.

Yoda obviously didn't have them up completely, or else he would have blocked the lightning like he did at the end of the fight.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Talking about terrible logic. Yes, Yoda is possibly more powerful than them combined at that point considering Vitiate was, who isn't even as powerful as ROTS Sidious, who is in turn Yoda's equal.

I can easily suggest that Palpatine would easily plaster Vitiate to a wall with TK because he did so to Maul and Savage. The ease in which Sidious was easily able to manipulate them with TK alone, even while he was falling, would suggest that he is more than twice as powerful than them combined, which means Sidious > 2 Mauls and 2 Savages. I can do some math too.

Don't give me that crap that Vitiate can take Yoda because he took out a strike team consisting of 4 jedi.

I'm just going to ignore those kinds of statements. Though I appreciate that you only say 'possibly' rather than just assume it.

Yes, you could make that argument. Alas, that is for another time.

It's one of the best feats in the mythos in my opinion.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
The fact that you're suggesting something so stupid, you sure in the hell have no right to accuse anyone of lowballing Nyriss by putting her lightning on Dooku's level. Revan is not on Yoda's level. Stop with your ridiculous wanking in order to make Vitiate seem more impressive than he actually is.

It isn't wanking, nor am I stating that it's the case. Whether or not Revan can be compared to Yoda is the entire purpose of this thread and Ant's essay. All I'm doing is keeping an open mind on the matter and not dismissing it out of hand like you are. If we assume it's untrue and close our minds to the argument, then theres no point having it, right?

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
And you can clearly see Yoda attempt to block Sidious's attack with one hand, so I guess it too significantly weakened Sidious attack. Guess what, though, Yoda was blasted into unconsciousness, Revan wasn't.

And don't give me this crap about Yoda being surprised. What was he surprised by? Sidious using a standard sith attack, which Yoda is very familar with?

Well of course Yoda did. If he hadn't, he wouldn't have merely been blasted into unconsciousness. He'd be dead. Sidious' lightning obviously kills on unprotected contact. That Yoda survives clearly indicates he managed to lesson the effects.

I'm not sure if he was surprised or not, though he did look like he was, stupidly enough. Whatever did happen though, it's clear that he wasn't able to put his best effort into blocking the lightning, or else he'd have done so like he did at the end of the fight.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Yoda was visibly showing signs of strain and pain, and this was a prolonged lightning attack from Sidious, whose lightning would otherwise be potent enough to render Yoda unconscious in a single very short blast if it weren't for his mastery of force absorption. The fact that Yoda was handling a very prolonged attack from Sidious, who was pouring lightning down Yoda, would suggest Yoda's proficiency and mastery of absorption.

Yes it does. I've never suggested otherwise. I wasn't being super serious with this point, I was making fun of your logic.

Although if Revan's Tutaminis ability does surpass or equal Yoda's, then it would be true I guess.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Yeah, you also decided that Scourge was Maul level because he defeated lots of nameless/featless warriors in his hundreds of years of existence.

The fact that Sidious' lightning feats have shown to be more potent while off a nexus than Vitiate's are while on one, would suggest that Yoda's feat of handling Palpatine's lightning is far greater than Revan handling Vitiate's.

Wasn't being serious bro, it was a joke.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Yes, LeGenD's corruption of you is complete.

Unlike you, I'm not just assuming the facts that support my argument are true and basing my argument on them.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Now your comparing a human's skin to that of Yoda's, which seems to be very reptilian-like? We seen smoke and left over residue of lightning on Yoda.

Also, Palpatine's lightning was said to tear through Maul's organs (Shadow Conspiracy) yet there were no signs of burns on his body. Plagueis poured lightning into a prophetess and boiled her blood, which left no signs of burns on her body.

Left over residue? Ew.

Regardless, Yoda shows no signs of external or internal injuries. The fact that he was knocked unconscious by an attack that did no actual damage to him, while Revan was enough of a boss to stay awake while having his mask seared to his face and his body horribly burnt, is notable. Revan's balls >> Yoda's.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Some of their sabers didn't block the attack, and some were only stunned when hit. Just like Ventress' and the nightsister's sabers didn't block Dooku's lightning, which means that having a saber is irrelevant unless it's successful in actually blocking the attack.

Also, Palpatine has blasted Yoda's saber from his hands in a short burst. He'd have no trouble in blasting through their saber defenses considering their force enhanced strength do no compare to Yoda's. None of them would have the strength to hold on to their sabers and push through.

The fact that some of them weren't able to even block Vitiates power spread out into the Force Storm is only a point in Vitiate's favor, surely. Of course its not only relevant if successful, overwhelming a persons lightsaber defense is still notable. The fact is that they had their lightsabers out and would undoubtedly try to use them to block the lightning and did. And don't say they were stunned by the Force Storm, because it had stopped by the time of Vitiates second attack.

Right except that there's four of them, so Sidious' lightning would be split between them. Sidious knocked Yoda's lightsaber out of his hands, but we can't say for sure that he'd do the same to the whole Strike Team at the same time.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
It took one prolonged attack and one charged one to render them unconscious. It took a single short blast from Sidious to render Yoda unconscious.

A half-hearted Yoda proves nothing. Nor does a Vitiate going easy on the Strike Team.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Palpatine is sadistic and was getting a terrible pleasure from seeing Luke on the ground in agony. The fact that Palpatine was constantly pausing his attack to gloat should tell you as much. This wasn't a combat situation between him and Luke.

I know. I was making a sarcastic argument to showcase the fallacy of your own argument. My example was terrible on purpose. That's the joke.

When a character is purposefully going easy on another character, we shouldn't take it as a serious example of their full strength. Just like Vitiate was purposefully trying not to kill the Strike Team. That he was able to incapacitate them so easily while still holding back is a pretty good indication of power though.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Not really. I could just as easily suggest that Sidious was holding back on his attack considering it was very short and he relented once Yoda was unconscious. Fact is, Vitiate was aiming to render them unconscious and it took more power from him than it did for Sidious to render Yoda unconscious.

You could, but it wouldn't actually prove anything. Whether or not Sidious was going all out is irrelevant, it just makes Yoda's defense look even more sloppy and pathetic. The fact is that Yoda could block his lightning later, so Sidious' lightning clearly isn't more than Yoda can handle when he's serious. So if Sidious was holding back, it would have to be by a margin lesser than Yoda was.

There's no way to prove that Vitiate needed to use more power than Sidious did. Nor that he actually did. Vitiate pwned them casually, Sidious blasted Yoda with both hands. Who used more power? Who can say. I doubt Vitiate actually needed to use 2 attacks. He seemed to have had enough time to have used the charged attack before the Strike Team engaged him regardless of whether he opened with the Storm. I think he was just ****ing with them personally.

This argument in general is really ****ing stupid btw since we're using characters not going all out in both cases.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
The only defense the strike team had were their sabers, some of which failed to block the attack with them. Sidious has blasted Yoda's saber right out of his hands.

As for the comparison between Yoda and Revan, Yoda has shown that he can block Palpatine's lightning when he uses his force absorption ability. So, yes, Yoda >> Revan. To suggest Revan is a Yoda level force user is beyond fan wanking. Hell, based on feats and accolades, I could make a better case for Dooku being capable of defeating Vitiate in combat, if you really want to be silly.

I know.

This is exactly the reason why I'm not going to bother responding again. You've already decided that Yoda >> Revan and theres no point is talking with you on the subject anymore.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Learn what a circular argument is before you try to insult mine. Again, Yoda being capable of absorbing energy that is otherwise potent enough to blast him unconscious had he not mastered the ability of force absorption, is not a circular argument.

Dooku has rendered Ventress unconscious with force lightning. Now, let's say shortly after, Ventress had learned how to absorb lightning with her hands, this wouldn't take away the impressiveness of Dooku's lightning when it did Knock her out. It would just mean that she learned of a defense of absorbing lightning that would otherwise be powerful enough to take her out.

Yes it is. You're using Yoda's own Tutaminis skills to establish his Tutaminis skill.

Yoda blocked Sidious' lightning is impressive because:

Sidious knocked out a being with Yoda's level of power.

You are using Yoda's own level of power to establish his level of power. Which establishes Sidious' level of power, which in turn establishes Yoda's level of power. That is an argument that goes in a circle. It is supported solely by its own premises rather than actual evidence.


Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Since you're unable to grasp it, then sure: Sidious has scorched a sith worm to ash; a weak version of his lightning was giving Mace, who was sunk deep in vapaad, a struggle. Conversely, both HoT and Revan have both handled Vitiate's lightning with their blade quite well despite being on a dark side nexus.

Yes, this is a valid means of establishing Sidious' power. Good job. I will probably just respond to this in the future.

Nyriss' lightning was able to disintegrate herself into ash despite having to break through a force barrier. Surely that's comparable to turning a sith worm to ash. right?

Revan only batted away single bolts of lightning, he didn't resist an actual stream of it. The HoT doing it just proves how immensely powerful they are. You can't say for certain that Windu's lightsaber defense is superior to theirs.


Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Which, again, wasn't my point. I clarified that yesterday. My comparison between them was directed at your attempts to constantly lowball Dooku (not just in this thread but others as well), who has shown to be greater than the opponents whom Vitiate has struggled with in combat.

So if you accept that point, then what do you think of Ant's argument? Revan dealt with Nyriss' lightning better than Yoda dealt with Dooku's. And Nyriss' lightning was much more potent than the lightning Dooku fired at Yoda. Wouldn't this indicate that Revan's tutaminis ability is greater than Yoda's? Or at least comparable?

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Force barriers and defenses are invisible and are usually active when a force user is in a combat situation. How do you think Anakin was resisting Dooku's attack before finally being KO'd? Obviously the force is used to resist energy based attacks regardless of whether or not they know force absorption, which goes back to my other point that Yoda absorbing Palpatine's lightning that is otherwise potent enough to render him unconscious, is not circular logic.

Which only establishes the possibility of them using it, not proving they did.

Who said he was resisting? He got KO'd in a short burst.

Yes, I get your point. It's still dumb, Yoda's defense weren't near his later efforts so he wasn't able to bring his full power to bare.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
He was still shown to struggle against Palpatine's weaker version of lightning, which wasn't intended to kill him, but rather to manipulate Anakin in choosing sides.

Theres no proof it was weaker or that he wasn't legitimately attacking Windu with his full power. In fact, I think Lucas directly said he tried to kill Mace with lightning, didn't he?

You're still not getting the point, Neph. That Yoda didn't use his best defense against lightning, which would be absorbing it with both hands, doesn't take away the impressiveness of Sidious being capable of knocking him unconscious. Again, for we've seen lesser powerful force users resist lightning for sometime, without even knowing how to absorb said power with their hands. Ventress has resisted lightning from Dooku, and so has Anakin. For example, in AOTC, it took a very short blast, coming from one hand, to put Anakin out of the fight for over 30 seconds, whereas during the CW, when Anakin grew in power, it took a prolonged attack + a force choke combo from Dooku just to render Anakin unconscious. Later during the war, Dooku used a two-handed lightning attack at close range to blast Anakin several meters away from him, and Anakin bounced back up right away. Evidently Anakin's growth in force power had a lot to do with his ability to resist more potent attacks of lightning than when he was a padawan in AOTC despite never mastering the ability to absorb lightning. Obviously being able to absorb lightning with your hands isn't the only way to negate the affects of it, otherwise why do you hold Vitiate taking out 4 jedi in such high esteem, considering most of them didn't know the ability to absorb lightning with their hands, and the fact that the lightning missed some of their sabers? Or why is scorching Nyriss to ash so impressive considering she didn't attempt to absorb (not block) her redirected attack?

Sidious has shown that he is capable of rendering a force user of Yoda's level, who hasn't mastered the ability of force absorption, on contact, considering he did so to Yoda himself when Yoda didn't attempt to absorb Sidious's lightning with both hands. That's not circular logic, Neph. It establishes the amount of energy Yoda can absorb when he puts his mastery of energy absorption to full use. What is so hard to grasp about that? No you don't understand my point, otherwise you wouldn't keep referring to it as a circular argument, which it's not. It just shows Yoda didn't use a particular ability to defend against Palpatine's first lightning attack, which would have otherwise been successful, as seen later during the fight.

Yes, I know the reason behind Ant's thread, but sorry, failing to absorb Vitiate's lightning doesn't put him on the level of Yoda, who has successfully absorbed a very prolonged lightning attack from Sidious, who was basically pouring lightning down Yoda, when he utilized that certain ability (force absorption). Furthermore, putting a force user on Yoda's level based on one good showing in one particular power, is silly. I know energy absorption requires a lot of raw power to master, but it's still only one ability that requires tremendous raw power out of dozens of other abilities.

I also realize you weren't trying to be serious in some of your responses. I was just showing you how your sarcasm fails, and that a lot of your recent serious arguments have been just as silly as your "sarcasm" in this thread.

Now, I'm done with this thread. You are dismissed.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Why do you fail to grasp such a simple concept?
If the Dark Side is stronger, Revan must use more energy to balance it out with the Light.

Except it would be the same amount of Force energy flowing through both, so they will both amp the same amount of midiclorians.
However, we are getting far off from the original topic.


Prove that its in balance bro.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Do you... not understand the meaning of the word balance?

Revan isn't a lightside darkside though.


Prove Revan's in balance.


In your opinion. I disagree.

If that's true Dooku wouldn't go from barely being able to own Ventress with the force to owning her with a finger.




That sounds like pretty much every argument you make.

"I always felt that Revan was special because he learned to balance and call on both the light and dark sides of the Force."
―Drew Karpyshyn (Author)

"He had learned to balance on the knife-edge between them, drawing on both the light and dark sides for strength."
―Star Wars The Old Republic: Revan

"Instead of charging forward, he opened himself up to the Force, letting both the light and the dark side flow through him like twin rushing rivers. But instead of focusing or channeling the Force, he released it in its purest form."
―Star Wars The Old Republic: Revan

"Now, you will see the Force in balance!'
―Revan (Star Wars The Old Republic)

I accept your concession.

There is 4.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
"I always felt that Revan was special because he learned to balance and call on both the light and dark sides of the Force."
―Drew Karpyshyn (Author)

"He had learned to balance on the knife-edge between them, drawing on both the light and dark sides for strength."
―Star Wars The Old Republic: Revan

"Instead of charging forward, he opened himself up to the Force, letting both the light and the dark side flow through him like twin rushing rivers. But instead of focusing or channeling the Force, he released it in its purest form."
―Star Wars The Old Republic: Revan

"Now, you will see the Force in balance!'
―Revan (Star Wars The Old Republic)

I accept your concession.


On neutral ground sure. But on a nexus it'd be more powerful in him. Why?

Well consider the living force. On a world like Droumund Kaas the world is strong in the force. The force is more potent on that world. As Revan would also be more potent on that world.

A Dark Side nexus hurts Light Side users, which Revan definitely was at the time of his confrontation. That's why. Living Force doesn't change the fact that there are two sides to it.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
On neutral ground sure. But on a nexus it'd be more powerful in him. Why?

Well consider the living force. On a world like Droumund Kaas the world is strong in the force. The force is more potent on that world. As Revan would also be more potent on that world.
The living Force doesn't change the fact Dromaund Kaas is strong in the *Dark Side*, not all aspects, like the Light Side. http://r26.imgfast.net/users/2613/36/14/96/smiles/1208107325.gif
How do you continue to fail to understand the concept that due to being on a Dark Side nexus, Revan's Dark Side powers are increased, but his Light Side powers are weakened?
This is only a norm in Star Wars lore since Dark Empire was established. You're grasping to strings in a rather pathetic and desperate attempt to save your precious Dooku, to be honest.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
The living Force doesn't change the fact Dromaund Kaas is strong in the *Dark Side*, not all aspects, like the Light Side. http://r26.imgfast.net/users/2613/36/14/96/smiles/1208107325.gif
How do you continue to fail to understand the concept that due to being on a Dark Side nexus, Revan's Dark Side powers are increased, but his Light Side powers are weakened?
This is only a norm in Star Wars lore since Dark Empire was established. You're grasping to strings in a rather pathetic and desperate attempt to save your precious Dooku, to be honest.

Also no where is the boost stated to be proportional but okay. This has nothing to do with Dooku lol. Revan's force abilities are above his.

watch?v=F96ghXk8FXg

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
watch?v=F96ghXk8FXg

He is far below Yoda though, which is what I thought this thread was about. Also Revan would still struggle with Dooku because Dooku is firmly above him in sabers.

I personally place Revan between ROTS Anakin and ROTS Vader in terms of power.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
I personally place Revan between ROTS Anakin and ROTS Vader in terms of power.
vs. Anakin?
Sabers-Anakin
Force-Revan
All Out- Revan, barely


vs. Dooku?
Sabers- Dooku
Force- Revan
All Out- Dooku, barely

Anakin>Dooku bro.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Anakin>Dooku bro.

Nope. Dooku wins every time in TCWs. Even in ROTS the match is 60/40 in his favor.

Did anyone else lol at this Dooku wank, or is it just me?

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Did anyone else lol at this Dooku wank, or is it just me?

How exactly is it wank? Anakin's taken on Dooku twice with backup and almost had his partner killed twice. And any other time Anakin's faced Dooku he's lost. One circumstantial victory does not mean he magically can take Dooku every other time.

Circumstantial victory?
He totally kicked his ass.

Originally posted by StarWarPrequals
Ant quit it with the billion quotes



You have to have something to cling to when your character has nothing but N cannon "Feats"

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Circumstantial victory?
He totally kicked his ass.

Due to a circumstantial power-up. Have you read the ROTS novel? Anakin had never shown that sort of clarity up to that point nor would he ever again. Unless Anakin goes in teh zone Dooku defeats him with difficulty most of the time.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Due to a circumstantial power-up. Have you read the ROTS novel? Anakin had never shown that sort of clarity up to that point nor would he ever again. Unless Anakin goes in teh zone Dooku defeats him with difficulty most of the time.
Another Zoanakin guy?
Gez, KMC is infested with them.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Another Zoanakin guy?
Gez, KMC is infested with them.

So you didn't read the novel then. Got it.

I have.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
I have.

Then you should know this.
1. Dooku wasn't trying to kill Anakin, the plan was to kill Kenobi and let Skywalker capture him.
2. "A starburst of clarity blossoms within Anakin Skywalker's mind,
when he says to himself Oh. I get it, now and discovers that the fear
within his heart can be a weapon, too.
It is that simple, and that complex.
And it is final.
Dooku is dead already. The rest is mere detail."-Anakin never gets this sort of clarity anywhere else.
3. Anakin had just lost Kenobi. No shit he'd unlock power he'd never touched upon before (sans perhaps on Mortis).

Many people know this, from myself to Intrepid to NewGuy01 to others, but that doesn't establish "Zoanakin."
Though, I'm not in the mood to have a Zonakin debate. My life is occupied on killing Darth Zash atm.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Many people know this, from myself to Intrepid to NewGuy01 to others, but that doesn't establish "Zoanakin."
Though, I'm not in the mood to have a Zonakin debate. My life is occupied on killing Darth Zash atm.

Lol Intrepid? That's your expert source?

No. That wasn't the point.
The point was many people who read the novel don't believe in Zonakin.
So you implying anyone who reads the novel believes in Zonakin is false.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
No. That wasn't the point.
The point was many people who read the novel don't believe in Zonakin.
So you implying anyone who reads the novel believes in Zonakin is false.

And there are people who read and watched ROTS who don't believe Anakin was weakened at Mustafar, doesn't make it any less horseshit. Anakin's performance against Dooku is just as much an outlier as him losing to Kenobi.

Also love how you conveniently leave out that Dooku was given orders not to kill Anakin.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Did anyone else lol at this Dooku wank, or is it just me?


However, I don't want a Zonakin debate on my Revan thread. So leave or contribute.

Originally posted by Lord Stark

Also love how you conveniently leave out that Dooku was given orders not to kill Anakin.

Every fight Dooku was in, he is given orders not to kill Anakin.
Doesn't mean he can't defend himself.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Every fight Dooku was in, he is given orders not to kill Anakin.
Doesn't mean he can't defend himself.

And yet he still kicks his ass more times than not. And yet you focus on one showing.

Well Anakin is constantly improving.