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Two powerful dark-jedi. one a fallen jedi master, the second the former apprentice to luke skywalker and leader of the reborn Versus The failed sith lord Darth Maul. here's a bit of info on team Dark Jedi. because we all know about Maul(not a spite thread by the by)

Atris
http://fc07.deviantart.net/fs47/i/2009/214/4/e/12__Insanity_by_Jinzali.jpg

A highly powerful jedi master, Atris was a well trained combatant being highly skilled in the Juyo form of combat, and displayed her prowess with the form during her fight with Meetra Surik and Her former Servant The Handmaiden. Brianna.

Lightsaber Form. Juyo she was said to be highly skilled with the form as she was able to defeat her former handmaiden who because of her echani heritage was skilled with her battle precognition

Force Powers. Force Lightning and Force Slow, she was able to use Force lightning against the young echani jedi and knocked her out with her sheer will.

Desann
http://fc03.deviantart.net/images3/i/2004/161/6/d/JK2_Desann___V2.jpg

An extremely powerful dark jedi master and former apprentice to the jedi grandmaster himself. Luke Skywalker. Desann is a powerhouse duelist who utilized The Strong style form of lightsaber combat with it along with his prowess with the force he was able to defeat Luke Skywalker and even dueled against the very man who would become the order's battle master Kyle Katarn.

Lightsaber Form. hybridized one handed variation of the Strong Style with elements of the Medium and Fast Styles.

Force Powers. Force Choke he utilized this power against Katarn when he captured the republic agent and his partner Jan Ors and Force Lightning. he even had enough skill in the telekinetic aspects of the force that he was able to force push Luke Skywalker.

Atris didn't defeat Brianna with martial skill, she used the Force, something Brianna does not know how to resist due to her limited training. Second, Desann didn't defeat Luke, he threw rocks on him and ran away without leaving a scratch, something every JK villain does when they lose. Considering he was amped at the time, I doubt this is a showing of base level.

All in all, Maul destroys Desann, who's more like a weaker Savage, using brute strength to compensate for no skill. I don't see Atris fairing much better against Maul's greater mastery of the Dark Side.

Desaan defeated post-DE Luke legitimately. He's not getting destroyed by Maul.

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It's absolutely true, though. Have you seen the fight?

You actually take that series into account?

Considering it's the only series Desann appears in, absolutely.

Lame.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
It's absolutely true, though. Have you seen the fight?
Desaan was amped and he still didn't hurt Luke. As for the fight, you do know it's completely random how it turns out right? It's runs through the same thing that controls Bots in MP.

He wasn't amped, they were on a ship IIRC, and he won the fight.

He didn't win. He didn't even hurt Luke. He ran away. And they were still at the nexus. He was amped.

It was during the Cairn Installation, that's nowhere near the Valley of the Jedi.

They dueled for about half a minute, then Desaan slammed him into a wall, and then buried him in rubble. I constitute that as victory.

He clashed with Luke, trapped him, and then ran away... which frankly, is a fairly impressive showing!

No, they flew the Doomgiver to Yavin, the nexus, as I recall, it only being destroyed in orbit. Desann was amped before that. Either way pushing someone and burying them in rubble isn't a victory. You don't have to kill someone to defeat them, but when someone isn't even hurt in the slightest and you run, it's more of an act of desperation than winning. This is like saying Maul and Savage beat Obi-Wan when Maul shoved him backwards so they could retreat.
Originally posted by Q99
He clashed with Luke, trapped him, and then ran away... which frankly, is a fairly impressive showing!
It's impressive, but I wouldn't say it's a defeat.

Oh yes, it's certainly not a *win*, save in the strategic sense (Desann only *had* to get away).

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
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Do not test me Ant I have know many things that could make a certain character seem unimpressive during a certain battle. My Powah is unlimited! J/k I aint got shit but seriously I've said it before and i'll say it again. @ Fated Xtasy : **** off

Desaan didn't seem like he was desperate. He was laughing the whole time.

KotOR 2 characters are underrated because of the stupid Revan and TOR crap.

Atris could probably give TPM Maul a good fight, but ultimately lose. SoD Maul would be too much for her though.

Originally posted by red8
KotOR 2 characters are underrated because of the stupid Revan and TOR crap.

Atris could probably give TPM Maul a good fight, but ultimately lose. SoD Maul would be too much for her though.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Desaan didn't seem like he was desperate. He was laughing the whole time.
Did the same thing when he fought Kyle, with a definite amp. Where is he now?
Originally posted by red8
KotOR 2 characters are underrated because of the stupid Revan and TOR crap.

Atris could probably give TPM Maul a good fight, but ultimately lose. SoD Maul would be too much for her though.
I don' underrate her, I just think Maul is better in what she does. A better master of Juyo and a better master of the Dark Side. I put Desaan below Savage, so he's definitely taken out.

Maul ragdolls Atris and then kills Desann with slight difficulty

I don't think Atris will be that easy to take out.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
I don' underrate her, I just think Maul is better in what she does. A better master of Juyo and a better master of the Dark Side.

Well honestly her feat of defeating a Echani Warrior - who have highly advanced precognitive senses, who was also a Jedi and a skilled Hand-to-hand combatant was impressive - EVEN if she defeated Brianna With the force their duel shows that she's no fodder, and aside from the exile being able to quickly pick up, learn and use Atris' form against her, many people fail to even bring up the fact that Atris and Meetra fought right after atris defeated Brianna and while this doesn't put her above TCW/SoD Maul it definitely puts her above TPM Maul.

QUOTE=14770417]Originally posted by FreshestSlice
I put Desaan below Savage, so he's definitely taken out.

Desann was able to duel somewhat on par with Luke, regardless of how that fight went it is still an impressive accolade/feat as how many people can say they survived an encounter with Luke? and if your enough of a smartass to name those people weren't they all powerful? granted he did lose with an amp but he's still an impressive Dark Jedi. Also I've been thinking that Because he was trained by Luke it could be that his familiarity with Luke's form could've played a part in his surviving their encounter.

Originally posted by carthage
Maul ragdolls Atris and then kills Desann with slight difficulty

*Sigh. Oh I grow tired of your nonsensical babbling carthage, your disregard for KoTOR era and its Champions along with the facts we(Emperor and Myself) provide you, you remains as ignorant as ever - though in this case I wouldn't be surprised if everyone here agrees with you and nor do I mind, but please don't be a fool and Say Maul can Ragdoll Atris. How about a short list of her accomplishments hmm?

-#1. Trained the handmaidens
-#2. Was a member and a jedi master of the high council
-#3. in cut content Kreia passed the mantle of Darth Traya to her!
-#4. She was a MASTER of Juyo.
#5. She was surrounded by Ancient Sith holocrons where she had gained knowledge of her dark-sided abilities
-#6 her foresight was so powerful that she knew what would happen at Katar.
-#7 She dueled Brianna and right afterwards the exile, twice.

So please carthage see that Atris is not as featless as you so claim. "The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about" Wayne Dyer

Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
*Sigh. Oh I grow tired of your nonsensical babbling carthage, your disregard for KoTOR era and its Champions along with the facts we(Emperor and Myself) provide you, you remains as ignorant as ever

Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
Well honestly her feat of defeating a Echani Warrior - who have highly advanced precognitive senses, who was also a Jedi and a skilled Hand-to-hand combatant was impressive - EVEN if she defeated Brianna With the force their duel shows that she's no fodder, and aside from the exile being able to quickly pick up, learn and use Atris' form against her, many people fail to even bring up the fact that Atris and Meetra fought right after atris defeated Brianna and while this doesn't put her above TCW/SoD Maul it definitely puts her above TPM Maul.

She still surprised Briana with the Force. She shocks her shortly after they cross sabers for a while. Brianna is not as well trained, and thus cannot deal with the lightning, having Precog doesn't teach you Tutaminis, which is essential for blocking Lightning. It does matter. Second, Brianna was trained by Atris. It's not as if her father taught her everything she knew as a young child. Precog or not, there was no chance that she would be able to stand up to a highly trained Jedi Master that taught her most of her techniques. Also keep in mind, Brianna has to fight through each and everyone of her sisters without trying to kill them.

Luke, for all his power, isn't that great of a duelist. He has never fought aggressively against anyone, something I consider laughable due to him being a user of Djem So. Desann used strength, and was amped at the time, as was his entire army. In the end, he didn't hurt Luke in the slightest. I've admitted that it was impressive, but it does not put him above Savage.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
She still surprised Briana with the Force. She shocks her shortly after they cross sabers for a while. Brianna is not as well trained, and thus cannot deal with the lightning, having Precog doesn't teach you Tutaminis, which is essential for blocking Lightning. It does matter. Second, Brianna was trained by Atris. It's not as if her father taught her everything she knew as a young child. Precog or not, there was no chance that she would be able to stand up to a highly trained Jedi Master that taught her most of her techniques.

your points are spot one, however you of all people should know that tutaminus isn't the only thing that can be used to shield a lightning attack we need only look at Kenobi during the battle with Dooku. Still you made good points

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Also keep in mind, Brianna has to fight through each and everyone of her sisters without trying to kill them.

I was lead to believe that was cut-content and as such Non-Canon? or are you simply using that in the same way I used Kreia passing the mantle of Traya to Atris?




Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Luke, for all his power, isn't that great of a duelist. He has never fought aggressively against anyone, something I consider laughable due to him being a user of Djem So. Desann used strength, and was amped at the time, as was his entire army. In the end, he didn't hurt Luke in the slightest. I've admitted that it was impressive, but it does not put him above Savage.


I'm assuming you mean that luke wasn't that great of a duelist during Kyle's Hunt for Desann and Jaden's destruction of the ragnos cult, if so I agree. if you mean to say through out his entire life time then I would calmly and passively recite the words made famous by a great actor. "Mother****ing bullshit is what that is!" - Samuel L Jackson

How is Luke a bad duelist tho? By this point he's matched DE Palpatine as I remember.

Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
your points are spot one, however you of all people should know that tutaminus isn't the only thing that can be used to shield a lightning attack we need only look at Kenobi during the battle with Dooku. Still you made good points

Good point.


I do not know, I haven't played KotOR II in awhile without TSLRC, by that I mean a decade. My mistake.






Sort of, Luke skills fluxuate with the moment, I mean, rather than the opponent, nor does he fight aggressively enough for my tastes. I'll admit a little bias against him.

Originally posted by Fated Xtasy







That's quite a wall-of-text to show that nothing she is done puts her on Maul's level. Facts and a bunch of random quotes, beating featless opponents, and a ton of incestuous "what if" type scenarios actually mean nothing



This says nothing about her fighting ability. Maul was the most skilled Sith in history, so what if she trained a bunch of mook characters?

And Maul has killed two high ranking Jedi masters, as well as this says nothing about her abilities/feats as well. I guess Coleman Trebor and Even Piell are special since they're council members

Non cannon

And? What notable opponents with feats has she beaten with her mastery?

The prove their effectiveness with feats
That says nothing about how easily she'd be slaughtered by Maul
-

And Maul fought the best of his age, nothing Atris has done even puts her above Qui Gon much less Maul



Nothing you've posted resembles any concrete feats and in no way showcases her abilities. So nice try

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Sort of, Luke skills fluxuate with the moment, I mean, rather than the opponent, nor does he fight aggressively enough for my tastes. I'll admit a little bias against him.


True. For some reason, Luke can go from a powerful, but rather unimpressive combatant to a martial genius with no equal, depending on the book and/or author. It's pretty frustrating, actually. One thing I'm confused about, though, is your remark about Luke's combat skills. You said Luke was unimpressive to you because he never really fought aggressively. Obi-Wan didn't fight aggressively after TPM. In fact, he mastered the most defensive form, and he was regarded as one of the top duelists in the Order. My mistake if I just misunderstood what you were saying.

Luke is a "master" of Djem So. Obi-Wan is a master of Soresu. They shouldn't be fighting in a similar manner.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Luke is a "master" of Djem So. Obi-Wan is a master of Soresu. They shouldn't be fighting in a similar manner.

Luke's style is a combination of mimicing Vader and reading Kenobi's notes. It's not really Djem So imo, but rather his own more defensive version.

Well it's what Luke identify as, so who am I to call him a liar. The point is, as has mostly been the point, it's not as effective as either.

You are the definition of word Imbecile, but I expected nothing noneless from you and as such I was prepared.

Originally posted by carthage
That's quite a wall-of-text to show that nothing she is done puts her on Maul's level. Facts and a bunch of random quotes, beating featless opponents, and a ton of incestuous "what if" type scenarios actually mean nothing


The "what ifs" shows what she could've become and unlike your precious Saesee Tiin she actually has dueling feats, Imbecile.


Originally posted by carthage
This says nothing about her fighting ability. Maul was the most skilled Sith in history, so what if she trained a bunch of mook characters?

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LMAO, Maul is in no way the "Most Skilled Sith in history" such as an assumption is laughable. These Handmaiden's were highly skilled to the point were all 5 of them were able to fight on par with Meetra Surik in un-armed combat - granted they were defeated, but it shows that Atris was skilled enough to teach them powerful techniques.


Originally posted by carthage
And Maul has killed two high ranking Jedi masters, as well as this says nothing about her abilities/feats as well. I guess Coleman Trebor and Even Piell are special since they're council members

And those two jedi are nothing compared to the Exile a user of Makashi. Soresu, Shii-Cho and Juyo, the one who defeated armies of sith from onderon, sith mercenaries on Dantooine, fought Hissis and Sith Assassins on Korriban, who at this point has learned the powerful and extremely rare Force Enlightenment technique, has been taught Battle Precognition from Brianna, learned to resist force users from Atton and has become a dangerous duelist and force user. who Atris has dueled the exile, Twice. after she dueled Brianna. Atris is the only person to have Survived an encounter with the exile, the only Jedi Master to have clashed with her. Please point me to some thing that compares Atris to Anoon Bondara? or maybe Qui-Gon Jinn? she may not be able to defeat TCW/SoD Maul but she can take TPM Maul down.

Originally posted by carthage
Non cannon

Exactly why I said Non-Canon you git.

Originally posted by carthage
And? What notable opponents with feats has she beaten with her mastery?

It allowed her to duel on par with the exile, which is more than can be said for Anoon Bondara who despite being a master of all Seven forms fell to Maul and Qui-Gon who despite his mastery of Ataru he fell to Maul. and here's a quote supporting Atris as a duelist and force user.
"All This Collected Knowledge, All these teaching of Combat and The Force - They Are Mine To Command"
- Atris. this shows that she has learned much in terms of both combat and the dark-side.

Originally posted by carthage
The prove their effectiveness with feats

Well they are the reason she learned Force Lightning, Force Slow, Force Choke and Force Drain very quickly....

Originally posted by carthage
That says nothing about how easily she'd be slaughtered by Maul

Unlike Jedi master's Like Zhar Lestin, Vandar Takare and the other jedi who died at Katar she was the only one who "Sensed what would happen at Katar" while the others did not. this could play a part in combat for her.

Originally posted by carthage
And Maul fought the best of his age, nothing Atris has done even puts her above Qui Gon much less Maul

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"And those two jedi are nothing compared to the Exile a user of Makashi. Soresu, Shii-Cho and Juyo, the one who defeated armies of sith from onderon, sith mercenaries on Dantooine, fought Hissis and Sith Assassins on Korriban, who at this point has learned the powerful and extremely rare Force Enlightenment technique, has been taught Battle Precognition from Brianna, learned to resist force users from Atton and has become a dangerous duelist and force user. who Atris has dueled the exile, Twice. after she dueled Brianna. Atris is the only person to have Survived an encounter with the exile, the only Jedi Master to have clashed with her."

Originally posted by carthage
Nothing you've posted resembles any concrete feats and in no way showcases her abilities. So nice try

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And now I await for your response which will most likely ignore all of my claims and say that I should try harder and will probably include a comment saying I should stop being a KoTOR fan boy