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FORCE, SABERS, ALL OUT

no takers on this of course. Sorry its not a Revan or Vitiate thread.

Anyway Plo should take this in a good fight, Malak is featless but he shouldn't go out too badly imo.

There is no takers because this thread is such a joke, I didn't think a response is necessary.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
There is no takers because this thread is such a joke, I didn't think a response is necessary.

Suuure.

How could Plo possibly win this one, sans a creek.

If Malak cries can Plo use his tears?

Plo maybe can use his own bloody corpse...
if he wasn't already dead.

Which will be hard to do considering it is Malak that will die.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
How could Malak possibly win this one, sans his Jedi juiceboxes.

Malak would beat him in under 10 seconds, to be honest.
A mere Force Stun would freeze Plo, then he just walks up and kills him.
Rather pathetic fight, and even more you are possibly suggesting otherwise.

Prove that he could.

If Malak were Darth Sidious, maybe.

Lol @ Malaks use of force stun against fodder game characters being his ticket to beating Plo.

He force stunned Leviathan Revan and earlier Bastila.
Also carthage, I'm reporting mods for your ban.
I'm personally gathering all your insults you gave to members.
Officially tired of your shit.

Leviathan Revan's best feat is defeating Darth Bandon. Koon could easily replicate this.

Leviathan Revan's best feat is fighting holding his own against Malak. Koon cannot replicate this.
Malak is confirmed to be among the most powerful Sith.
His TK was powerful enough to send a Mando flying like a 100+ feet.
His saber skills by this time are said to be as impressive as Revan's military genius.
His Force abilities are said to be "extraordinary."
He is implied by Vandar to be near/superior to Darth Revan, who has been compared to Sidious/Caedus, as with being capable of killing rancors with lightning.

Plo Koon has considerably superior showings against Ventress than Masters who have been confirmed to be amongst the best in the Order's history.



That's good, but not outside of Plo Koon's range of ability.



When was this? Also, that's extremely vauge.



Bro, Miniatures isn't a canon source. Also, this is clearly not the case by his own admission.

I'm in honest shock you are honestly implying Plo can stand against Malak.
Consider this to be the last time I will ever take you seriously.

Malak being put with the likes of Sidious and Krayt among the "most powerful" put him, to be honest, already well above Plo. Plo being "one of the best in the Order's history" is *incredibly* vague, and due to the amount of Jedi who have ever existed, only puts Kun among the top 100+. Meanwhile, Malak is already implied to be with the greats. I would like to take note that Dooku is excluded in that quote.

"Many of the most powerful, terrifying, and notorious Sith Lords through history have been Human or near-Human, including Exar Kun, Darth Malak, Darth Bane, Darth Sidious, Darth Vader, and Darth Krayt."

This is not even yet mentioning his performance against Darth Revan which was described as a "their desperate final battle." Revan by this time has already been confirmed to be the most powerful Jedi in the entire KotOR era. This hype alone is *much* superior then being called "among the greatest in the Order's history", when you consider:
1. KotOR is the confirmed prime of the Jedi.
2. There at least "thousands" of Jedi on Malachor V alone. And that is only the Revanchist faction.
Ultimately, and realistically, there would be tens of thousands of Jedi in the Order. And if I recall correctly, some member here even said there was in the "Why I think Vitiate may be the most powerful Sith ever" thread.


Yes it is. For his cave feat, he merely brought down the supports, and the rest followed.
http://i39.servimg.com/u/f39/17/73/92/12/plo_ko10.jpg


"While many credited the Revanchist's military strategies for the campaign success, others were quick to point to Alex's fierce courage and relentless fury on the forefront of every battle as the key part to Republic victory."
―The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia


The summary is not miniatures. They use miniatures for the *game* section, however the summary itself is not game mechanics. Wookieepedia considers this canon, despite their tough canon policy.

Wookipedia doesn't have a tough canon policy, nor have they addressed this as a canonical statement.

Consider this to be the last time I will ever take you seriously lmao.

No, I don't consider it canonical, lmao.
However, I do enjoy the hype it supplies.
You yourself said this on Steam. ^

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Darth_Malak
They do use Hasbro quotes though.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Wookipedia doesn't have a tough canon policy, nor have they addressed this as a canonical statement.

Consider this to be the last time I will ever take you seriously lmao.

I'm surprised you ever took him seriously, considering you know more about Star wars than him. Surprising coming from you Sasuke.

He knows more about the Prequel Trilogy era.
Not the KotOR era.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Malak would beat him in under 10 seconds, to be honest.
A mere Force Stun would freeze Plo, then he just walks up and kills him.
Rather pathetic fight, and even more you are possibly suggesting otherwise.

Malak defeats Plo in 10 seconds?

Not even bro.

He beat Bastila/Carth sooner then that.
Force Stun spam ftw.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
He beat Bastila/Carth sooner then that.
Force Stun spam ftw.

So putting a Padawan and a non-force sensitive soldier in a stun means he can put one of the most powerful Jedi Masters in history in one? Keep dreaming bro.

Malak has no objective speed feats that prove he can contend with Koon. If he struggles with a mook Mandalorian he isn't going to take a guy who fought the best Jedi assassin of her era.

lol Malak has speed feats.

If they occurred during an amp they don't count. Sorry.

They don't.

Malak wins, but he's certainly not stomping this in 10 seconds.

Not seeing how he wins. His force feats off nexus are practically non existent, and his best feats take place when he's amped. It be a good fight, but he doesn't match Plo's sole feat of holding back Ventress

Not saying it'd be easy for Plo either

No one values your opinion here, so why do you post it?
You think you would take the hint after being blocked by 5+ users.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
No one values your opinion here, so why do you post it?
You think you would take the hint after being blocked by 5+ users.

People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

He insults most users here. I should throw larger stones.
And maybe some at you.
Also, lol at comparing me to him. You might be as big as a joke then him.
I am shocked you are one of the oldest members here.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
He knows more about the Prequel Trilogy era.
Not the KotOR era.

You don't know much more than me about the KotOR era, you simply have a vastly greater fanatical obsession with it.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
No one values your opinion here, so why do you post it?
You think you would take the hint after being blocked by 5+ users.

. I consider it an accomplishment.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
You don't know much more than me about the KotOR era, you simply have a vastly greater fanatical obsession with it.
I don't even recall you having the KotOR comics.
Though I'm not the person who says who I am better then.
That would be yourself, Intrepid, and Sith on SWF.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
He insults most users here. I should throw larger stones.
And maybe some at you.
Also, lol at comparing me to him. You might be as big as a joke then him.
I am shocked you are one of the oldest members here.

If you are going to insult someone at least use proper grammar.


Originally posted by NewGuy01
You don't know much more than me about the KotOR era, you simply have a larger erection about it.

Don't argue with him Newguy, he's too strong in the force

I own the important ones, and I've read the others.



Uh, you just did, and you commonly do.

I was too busy laughing at you, my bad.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
I was too busy laughing at you, my bad.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-o8mYE8YOj7Y/UB7Gonf1shI/AAAAAAAACIc/hfzprMaZnrw/s1600/calling-bullshit.gif

http://r26.imgfast.net/users/2613/36/14/96/smiles/1390042426.gif

Let me get this straight, you admit to wanking a character profusely and think that I am the bad poster? Yeah, we're done here. Mods please lock this thread.

Who do I wank?
Revan? I put him Anakin level.
Malak? I put him Maul level.

He doesn't just wank them, he hordes tons of quotes and massively over analyses their abilities.

Re-read the part, the http://r26.imgfast.net/users/2613/36/14/96/smiles/1390042426.gif was in reference to thinking of members lower then myself, not wanking.
I honestly rather have PT then someone like you, Stark. Or at least get some damn glasses.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Who do I wank?
Revan? I put him Anakin level.
Malak? I put him Maul level.

Nihilus?

Also, there's no way in hell Maul could defeat Koon in 10 seconds, and I doubt that without outside aid that he's Maul's peer in the first place.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Who do I wank?
Revan? I put him Anakin level.
Malak? I put him Maul level.

Yeah I'm just gonna leave this here.

Nihilus has the greatest telekinetic feat in the mythos.
And, I am not saying Malak can beat Koon in a duel in ten seconds, as you guys imply.
I am saying, if he uses Force Stun, it can be over in ten seconds, which is true.

Originally posted by carthage
He doesn't just wank them, he hordes tons of quotes and massively over analyses their abilities.

That's preferable, actually. At least with the additive information, it's easier to make educated inferences on the characters of one's own, even if Ant's fangasming can be ridiculous.

Did you fail to read the rest of the thread?

You didn't read this bolded piece, did you? ^
Raw power=/=overall power.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Nihilus has the greatest telekinetic feat in the mythos.
And, I am not saying Malak can beat Koon in a duel in ten seconds, as you guys imply.
I am saying, if he uses Force Stun, it can be over in ten seconds, which is true.

And you have yet to show Malak stunning anyone not a Padawan.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Nihilus has the greatest telekinetic feat in the mythos.
And, I am not saying Malak can beat Koon in a duel in ten seconds, as you guys imply.
I am saying, if he uses Force Stun, it can be over in ten seconds, which is true.

I'd argue Koon is strong enough to break the hold fairly quickly.

Revan by this time would be stronger then Plo.
Do you actually want to have an educated debate on this, or do you just want whine like an ass?
Considering you thought I said Revan=Yoda, I don't even think I *want* to debate with you

lol Ant be mad.

Ant mad.
The combination of Stark and carthage= too much headaches for any person.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Did you fail to read the rest of the thread?

You didn't read this bolded piece, did you? ^
Raw power=/=overall power.




Don't piss on my head and tell me its raining. Neither Revan nor Anakin are close to Yoda. You blatantly assert that Revan is closer to Yoda than we all assumed previously. No one denied Revan was Mace/Anakin/Dooku level before, so the implication is that he's higher.

Stark ain't bad. But:

http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/000/031/783/obamam-lol-y-u-mad-tho.jpg

Many people denied it, actually.
You put too far of a distance between Yoda/Sidious and the other tiers.


I rather have Intrepid.

Because Intrepid is fun.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
I rather have Intrepid.

http://www.troll.me/images2/paulydtroll/explain-this-bullshit.jpg

Intrepid trolling Stark=Best day ever.

"Admit Dooku's limitations, restrictions, failure, weakness, and inferiority. http://r26.imgfast.net/users/2613/36/14/96/smiles/3177439056.gif"

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Revan by this time would be stronger then Plo.
Do you actually want to have an educated debate on this, or do you just want whine like an ass?
Considering you thought I said Revan=Yoda, I don't even think I *want* to debate with you

Why because you say so? This is before he had anywhere from weeks to months of training on Korriban, probably the ladder.

I didn't think you said that. You said your words not mine that they are comparable, that does not mean equal but it does mean in the same ballpark, which they aren't. Yoda outclasses Revan. Intrepid did piss me off once but after that we got along fine. Hell, I even spoke against his banning.

Also I don't even remember which thread that was in.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
"Admit Dooku's limitations, restrictions, failure, weakness, and inferiority. http://r26.imgfast.net/users/2613/36/14/96/smiles/3177439056.gif"

Bro are you serious. I've conceded to the limits of Dooku's abilities plenty of times. When have I made a wild statement about Dooku's power?

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Stark trolling Ant=Best day ever.

Fixed

Comparable=/=can beat him.
In terms of the entire Star Wars mythos, many characters are comparable in comparison to, let's say, as Clone Trooper.
Boards have got too used to the norm Jedi/Sith being the best, when that wasn't the case.

Limitations, hm? I suppose his stamina could be better, but then gain he uses a technically ergonomical lightsaber style to compliment this.



Restrictions... I'll think on that one.



He died a pawn.



Weakness? His overconfidence.



He's inferior to Sidious.

Gooood.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Comparable=/=can beat him.
In terms of the entire Star Wars mythos, many characters are comparable in comparison to, let's say, as Clone Trooper.
Boards have got too used to the norm Jedi/Sith being the best, when that wasn't the case.

Dude this post is so poorly constructed all I have to do is quote it and it'll generate laughs.

Yes, in less than 5 minutes I was able to respond to a post that you could not. Your accusations of bias no longer hold weight.

http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/LAf0QnLFS7Q/maxresdefault.jpg

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Dude this post is so poorly constructed all I have to do is quote it and it'll generate laughs.
lol. It's hard to play TOR, chat on my other forum, jack off to Revan, text two friends, and respond to you at the same time.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
lol. It's hard to play TOR, chat on my other forum, jack off to Revan, text two friends, and respond to you at the same time.

Is this supposed to impress me?

No? It was a defense to your comment.
If I wanted to impress you, I would have mentioned Dooku porn.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Many people denied it, actually.
You put too far of a distance between Yoda/Sidious and the other tiers.

Well Sidious did choke Dooku out like a b*tch. As well as ragdoll Maul and Savage at the same time. Plus blitzing the B team. I dunno, Sidious is pretty far above lesser tiers. And that's not even going into Nihilus, Hord and Vitiate who are on a comparable tier to him, as well as the pwnage Nox and Malgus can dish out despite being on a lower tier.

Hord and Nihilus ftw.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
No? It was a defense to your comment.
If I wanted to impress you, I would have mentioned Dooku porn.

Bro Dooku isn't even my favorite character, why the hell would I be biased towards him? http://r26.imgfast.net/users/2613/36/14/96/smiles/651588504.gif


Originally posted by Nephthys
Well Sidious did choke Dooku out like a b*tch. As well as ragdoll Maul and Savage at the same time. Plus blitzing the B team. I dunno, Sidious is pretty far above lesser tiers. And that's not even going into Nihilus, Hord and Vitiate who are on a comparable tier to him, as well as the pwnage Nox and Malgus can dish out despite being on a lower tier.

Agreed, although Hord needs more feats. But yeah serious Sidious and Yoda would babyshake the likes of Dooku with their force powers.

Who is it then? I want to crush them slowly.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Who is it then? I want to crush them slowly.

Good luck, its Yoda. excellent

Should have never shared those two quotes saying Yoda=Sidious. http://r26.imgfast.net/users/2613/36/14/96/smiles/2070551810.gif

Dayumnnnnnn

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Should have never shared those two quotes saying Yoda=Sidious. http://r26.imgfast.net/users/2613/36/14/96/smiles/2070551810.gif

http://img.pandawhale.com/99554-Ned-Stark-laughing-gif-Robert-Jion.gif

This thread is a ****ing trainwreck.

You're all getting an infraction and if I have to come back here it'll be two more. -_-

LOL

No, Ant, I'm serious. You've made a couple of mistakes that will get you eaten alive if you want to do argumentation in any serious way.

First off, you've kind of forgotten what you're trying to prove. This is a debate about Malak and Koon, not Revan. Points about Revan may strengthen or detract from your case, but at the heart you've got to prove things about Malak and Koon. So the point comparing Koon to Revan is really badly aimed.

Notably, Malak is inferior to Revan. If Plo Koon is also inferior to Revan then we are at a loss as to the relation between Malak and Koon. This is a deductive dead end. Inductively you might hope to quantify the degree to which Revan eclipses each one, but this method also has problems.

In particular, one of the yardsticks for Revan's power is his performance against Malak. If you want to judge Malak in light of his performance against Revan and you judge Revan based on his performance against Malak then there is a circularity in your argument that cannot be avoided. This is mitigated by the info from the TOR franchise, but not to your benefit. (Revan is kind of a pussy in the new materials.)

Now, if you can't judge Malak by Revan, because part of Revan's rating arises from Malak himself, what must you do? It seems clear that the focus of your argument should be Malak instead. On this front the composition of your work is more promising; if the evidence you presented were all true and unambiguous then the conclusion that Malak is a notable combatant would follow.

Again, I'm going to disagree. Not because your argument is weak but because it is not true. You have a quote about the caliber of near-human Sith Lords that would call Malak a peer:

However, there are three criteria which determine this list:
powerfulnessterrifyingnessnotoriety
It is a well-worn debate on the boards what is the proper interpretation of "powerful." A powerful politician may not be much of a fighter, and a powerful Sith Lord may not ever use a lightsaber to defend their life. So that doesn't guarantee Malak's survival against a Jedi Master. Ability to induce terror and notoriety are similarly unable to guarantee the survival of your champion in a fight to the death. While this quote demonstrates that Malak was a historically notable Force user, it doesn't tell us about his combat abilities.

Next you bring up a quote about Malak's conduct on the battlefield:

This is more promising, but still fails to identify a particular skill of Malak's. For example, the character Scout from Yoda: Dark Rendezvous is courageous, but not a skilled combatant. As for "relentless fury" it could charitably be assumed that Malak is a user of some sort of battle rage technique. This doesn't specify his skill with the tactic or its applicability to individual duels.


Lastly, I'd like to look at this particular point that you make:

Setting aside the problems of measuring Revan as described above, this is a good paragraph! You bring up an observation (that Revan is put at the uppermost echelons of power among active Jedi in the Old Republic) and then provide reasons why this is an important accolade. This kind of argument structure is very effective and more likely to make your arguments both valid and sound.

Valid arguments are those which hold, assuming that every supporting reason is true. "If I am a gambler then I will lose money. I am a gambler. Therefore I will lose money" is a valid argument, because the truth of the first two parts guarantees the truth of the last part.

Sound arguments are valid arguments where the supporting parts are actually true. The example I gave is not a sound argument because some gamblers do not lose money. Thus, the premise is not true and the conclusion may be true or false.

I'm not trying to be condescending (but it happened anyway i guess). The point is that this last argument would totally work, if its components were all actually true. To wit:
There is a quote floating around that identifies the prequel trilogy as the prime of the Jedi (or maybe the "golden age"?)In terms of numbers, it is much more likely that the prequel era Jedi are more numerous than the KotOR Jedi.Even if it were not, many accolades about Koon are likely to take into account the history of the Jedi Order, which includes Revan himself. That is to say, equivalent quotes calling Revan and Koon, respectively, high-ranked amongst the history of the entire order will still benefit Koon more than Revan (since history is longer and more impressive the later you go in time).





Plo Freezes a creek and ends this. How is it even a question??

So many words I don't care for.
Gez, guess time for another debate.
Expect a reply tonight, considering I'm annoyed.

http://r26.imgfast.net/users/2613/36/14/96/smiles/752783128.gif These paragraphs are...rather incredibly misleading. I suggest other members look at them without just dismissing it saying "quanity>quality."
Essentially, you just said: "you cannot use Revan in a debate concerning Darth Malak because Revan's feats are affected by Malak's."
This...makes no sense. Even ignoring the fact nearly all of Malak's feats come directly from Revan himself, it still makes no sense.
From this logic, you cannot use Obi-Wan Kenobi in a debate against Anakin Skywalker because Skywalker's feats are affected because of Kenobi.
Or you can't use Darth Maul in a feat for Darth Sidious because Maul's feats are affected by Sidious. Get the point?


http://r26.imgfast.net/users/2613/36/14/96/smiles/3156199618.gif This is also rather misleading. We are not at loss in a relation between Malak and Koon.
Darth Malak's performance against Darth Revan was stated to have made most contestants "desperate" in combat.
Realistically, Koon could not give Darth Revan so much effort based on Revan's feats, such as killing rancors with lightning.

http://r26.imgfast.net/users/2613/36/14/96/smiles/4003554450.gif Also misleading. I bolded the only relevant part to the actual debate, for the term "powerful" I was using was in reference to Malak's combat abilities. Meanwhile, you hilariously suggested it was in terms of political.

"His stratagems were painfully obvious, intending to crush all resistance everywhere. There was little thought beyond the complete destruction of anything that opposed him." --GOTO

According to GOTO and supported by HK and Vandar in separate conversations, Malak's attack on Dantooine was honestly just to kill his enemies. Politics and tactics are not Malak's specialty at all.


Except it does recognize skill since it was successful. It fact, it was successful enough to the point where it is compared to Revan's military genius.


Excuse yourself, but I know how to debate. You do have more experience then me on it, but I have been doing it quite some time. Don't act like this is my day 1 when it's not at all.


I'm aware.

I'm aware.

I suggest you read my Revan Respect Thread: http://www.comicvine.com/profile/darthant66/blog/revan-respect-thread/95278/
Revan is said to be among "the most powerful Jedi" and is also "one of the most powerful individuals in the universe." This surpasses Koon's quotes by, to be honest, a far distance.

Though I will note that it was never my intention to engage it a full-hearted debate. I am currently working on a "Darth Malak's Power Overview" thread that I will link which would have been my logic. However, it's not compete yet.

Who wins