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Desann as of his fight with Luke vs. Maul as of TPM. Who wins? Takes place on flat, neutral terrain.

If Desann beats Luke, which he did, he most definitely could beat Maul.

Desann sucks though

But that fight was long before like was greatly powered? Like 30 years or similar I believe.

Maul takes this imo

Beat Luke? He dropped a catwalk in front of him and booked it, how is that "beating"?

I'm going with Maul.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Beat Luke? He dropped a catwalk in front of him and booked it, how is that "beating"?
This is what I keep asking.

Desann managed a tactical draw which in his situation was a strategic win. He's still weaker than Kyle Katarn when push comes to shove.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Beat Luke? He dropped a catwalk in front of him and booked it, how is that "beating"?

Check that part again, Desann wins there.

They clash sabers for awhile, none of the fight canon because it's not scripted. Desaan pushes Luke, sabers down some wall and runs

Luke comes out completely unscathed.

Desann escaped, he most certainly did not win. He didn't even touch him. Luke brushed it off without a second thought.

The only thing Desann has going for him is that he was able to sneak up on Luke. Luke says to Kyle "I couldn't even sense him until he was right on on top of me" or something to that effect. Which means that Desann is so good at sneaking up on people that he fails to kill them...


And actually fighting Luke... he sucked at it. They crossed sabers, jumped off a catwalk, Desann pushed Luke away and dropped said catwalk in front of him. Then ran away to destroy Luke's Jedi Order. Since Luke hopped out a few seconds later, standing up straight and mournfully shaking his head, then talking in a calm, NOT-out-of-breath voice to Kyle... I'm gonna go with "Luke was totally unscathed".

Now... either Desann was so piss-poor in the Force that he couldn't sense that Luke was still alive (and completely unharmed), or, he figured that leaving behind the leader of the Jedi he despises so much that he's going off right now to kill them all, is a pretty fantastic idea. And leaving him inside his base of operations to boot--WTF?


Desann is either a terrible combatant who runs away. Or he's a terrible combatant who's also really stupid. It's one of those two. Actually, given Desann's entire plan was to attack a fortified planet with just a single troop carrier and a couple of TIE fighters (and this was after Daala's failed attack with an entire fleet), I'm leaning more towards the stupid option. But he also sucks as a fighter too.

Originally posted by Sinious
Check that part again, Desann wins there. Just to summarize: thinking you won (or running away from combat, whichever), is not the same as actually winning.

Luke is obviously much stronger than Desann that is not the argument though.

Desann didn't just push Luke away. He basically TK'ed his ass. It was an impressive maneuver.

No, he basically just pushed him, and then didn't even hurt him. Running away without even hurting your opponent is not winning. Whether he was pressed for time or knew that he could not win, he ran. Desaan did not beat anyone.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
They clash sabers for awhile, none of the fight canon because it's not scripted.

What do you mean by this?

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
What do you mean by this?
The fight's actually random each time you play it. Looking at this fight is the same as loading multiplayer and bringing in copies of both of them. The only thing that matters is the end when Desann pushes Luke.

It should also matter that they duel for a certain amount of time before jumping off the catwalk. We see a good 30 seconds of duel there, and we missed the beginning. It's still legit.

Also... In the video I watched, Luke was getting his ass kicked by Desaan's AI. C;

Originally posted by NewGuy01
It should also matter that they duel for a certain amount of time before jumping off the catwalk. We see a good 30 seconds of duel there, and we missed the beginning. It's still legit.

You see a good 30 seconds. I've seen more and less.

Tavion's AI > Luke's AI.

The saber fighting is randomized every time. The scripted part comes after they jump off the catwalk. Speaking of:


jcTuClbfrac


That there is Desann doing absolutely no damage to Luke whatsoever before running off like a little b*tch.

You know the fact of the matter is that Desann's skill with the saber(or lack there of if your a dumbass) allowed him to survive an encounter with Luke while others have failed or been injured, regardless of how you view Luke's saber skill it is impressive as im sure we all know how Luke has defeated many skilled lightsaber duelist. and while he may not have won against Luke, he didn't lose either. how many other people have stalemated Luke? and how many of them were highly skilled and masterful duelist?

Yeah, standing up to Luke is a pretty great feat, as is managing to push him and stun him long enough to drop that thing on him.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Yeah, standing up to Luke is a pretty great feat, as is managing to push him and stun him long enough to drop that thing on him.

Thank You Nephthys, atleast someone here understands that.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Yeah, standing up to Luke is a pretty great feat, as is managing to push him and stun him long enough to drop that thing on him.
This is not what anyone argued. The point is, Desann could not beat Luke. Pushing Luke is a feat. Not hurting him however, is not. And even if it was, it doesn't meant that Desann won the fight.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
This is not what anyone argued. The point is, Desann could not beat Luke. Pushing Luke is a feat. Not hurting him however, is not. And even if it was, it doesn't meant that Desann won the fight.

Could it be that perhaps Desann was toying with his former master? or will everyone simply discard that notion?

Yes.

Could it be that Desann is not as powerful as Luke and ran away when he realised he couldn't win even when he surprised him and amped and that his stupid and incrediblye horribly conceived plan was falling apart? Toying is what Sidious did to Savage and Maul. Toying is what Vader did to Luke. Toying is what Sidious did to Starkiller. What Maul did to Obi-Wan. Toying isn't running away after doing absolutely nothing. Not a little. Not a scratch. Nothing. He collapsed a huge chunk of metal on him and did nothing. If Desann can toy with post DE Luke, he should have had not trouble with Kyle. Desann is dead now.

Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
Could it be that perhaps Desann was toying with his former master? or will everyone simply discard that notion? As there's nothing to indicate that, then yes. He was leaving on a mission to eradicate the Jedi. Leaving their leader alive in his own secret base isn't an act of "toying". It's an act of fleeing.

Good for him for lasting as long as he did and getting a quick TK shot in. It indicates nothing more than he knows what to do when he wants to run away. That he was able to sneak up on Luke and not kill him actually says a lot more about his relative combative abilities.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Could it be that Desann is not as powerful as Luke and ran away when he realised he couldn't win even when he surprised him and amped and that his stupid and incrediblye horribly conceived plan was falling apart? Toying is what Sidious did to Savage and Maul. Toying is what Vader did to Luke. Toying is what Sidious did to Starkiller. What Maul did to Obi-Wan. Toying isn't running away after doing absolutely nothing. Not a little. Not a scratch. Nothing. He collapsed a huge chunk of metal on him and did nothing. If Desann can toy with post DE Luke, he should have had not trouble with Kyle. Desann is dead now.

Ah, struck a nerve I see, it is so enjoyable, watching and readying your little rant but as enjoyable and laughable as it was. Can the same not be said for Desann? he emerged unscathed, unhurt and most importantly and obviously not dead he was laughing obviously. Your little argument is based around the fact that Luke was unharmed and that what Desann did didn't even hurt him yet the same can be said for Desann or will you reveal your double standard? I will concede to the point that perhaps Desann wasn't toying with Luke, but I feel inclined to point out that Kyle did augment his force potential by using the valley of the jedi which did increase his power substantially and allowed him to quickly re-learn his powers. and to be fair I shall point out something that might explain why both of them emerged unscathed. As we are told during the outcast story Desann was Luke's apprentice and as such could've been very familiar with his old master's style and viceversa as for the TK feat. it is a old game dude, it cant be perfect in every sense of the word, though If a canon source confirms Luke emerging unscathed my tune would obviously change on the TK feat

I hope you understand that I am in no way trying to belittle you or provoke you nor do I hold anything against you this is a debate and I would hope that we all could keep it civilized and keep this debate free of sarcasm, I am simply amazed at how quickly many seem to put down the idea of Luke being stalemated as if it were not possible. still it does not surprise me as this is to be expected.

How... how did you come to the conclusion that you "struck a nerve" with him?

Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
I am simply amazed at how quickly many seem to put down the idea of Luke being stalemated as if it were not possible. still it does not surprise me as this is to be expected.

This is Luke after he'd defeated Sidious. Of course no-ones going to buy that Desann legitimately stalemated him. Desann isn't in the big leagues.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
How... how did you come to the conclusion that you "struck a nerve" with him?

does it matter? If I ask he will deny or he will not, it is of little consequence and it hold no place in our discussion. Though I must say I am amazed to see that out my entire argument that was that you could see...curious. perhaps we should focus on the debate and not on such trivial things, I feel that would be the most beneficial.

Oh, you're one of those diplomatic/holier than thou types. How dull.

Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
Ah, struck a nerve I see, it is so enjoyable, watching and readying your little rant but as enjoyable and laughable as it was.

Calm down.

No, because Luke wasn't running away. He would have beaten Desann eventually, as Luke has done to pretty much everyone else of Desann's ability. If you honestly think Desann had any possibility of a chance at defeating Luke, well you can go on believing it. I won't crush the fantasy.

I never said Luke won their encounter, so where is the double standard?

Kyle didn't augment his Force potential, he only simply reversed the atrophy of his connection to the Force, which he had loss from not using it in so long. Desann, on the other hand, amped himself and an entire army.

The game isn't canon? Luke emerges and is obviously unwounded. Gameplay limitations explains nothing, as people have been constantly wounded, hurt, and exhausted throughout the series.

Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
Ah, struck a nerve I see, it is so enjoyable, watching and readying your little rant but as enjoyable and laughable as it was.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Oh, you're one of those diplomatic/holier than thou types. How dull.

Lucien if you have an opinion state it otherwise what is the point? Claiming that I am dull does not help the argument against Desann.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Calm down.


Trust me, it will take more than someone else's opinion to get me mad.

No, because Luke wasn't running away. He would have beaten Desann eventually, as Luke has done to pretty much everyone else of Desann's ability..

Originally posted by FreshestSlice


If you honestly think Desann had any possibility of a chance at defeating Luke, well you can go on believing it. I won't crush the fantasy.

I am afraid you misunderstood, I've never even implied that Desann could best Luke, all I said was that PERHAPS=MAYBE Desann was toying with him just to put it on the table nothing more nothing less and if I did OUTRIGHT say that Desann bested Luke please feel free to send me the quote. I'm not afraid to admit when I am wrong.


Originally posted by FreshestSlice
I never said Luke won their encounter, so where is the double standard?

Ah, my mistake then, apologies.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Kyle didn't augment his Force potential, he only simply reversed the atrophy of his connection to the Force, which he had loss from not using it in so long. Desann, on the other hand, amped himself and an entire army.

I see, good points

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
The game isn't canon? Luke emerges and is obviously unwounded. Gameplay limitations explains nothing, as people have been constantly wounded, hurt, and exhausted throughout the series.

Slice please don't be a fool, if that were the case that out of ALL of the duels that Kyle and Jaden had they came out unscathed, making them one of the best duelists of all time, Games from back then had their limitations, they cant really show that the character is hurt during gameplay(we need only look at Final Fantasy 13 and its sequels) I mean Jaden isn't seen visibly hurt or Tired after his duel with Marka Ragnos/Tavion or her apprentice Alora but we have to understand that this is a game an old one at that so it does have its limitations. Still im not arguing whether or not Luke was tired or not, Realistically Luke, Jaden and Kyle would HAVE to be tired after fighting any(obviously powerful) Dark Jedi however as I said this is a game and an old one at that. still I am a firm believe that neither really won that confrontation and so it ended in a stalemate.

Look I never even tried to argue that Desann was luke's superior in lightsaber combat, obviously the nexus played a part in Desann's surviving the encounter and would be killed without it, I never even tried to say that Luke lost or that luke got his ass kicked all I said was this.

Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
You know the fact of the matter is that Desann's skill with the saber(or lack there of if your a dumbass) allowed him to survive an encounter with Luke while others have failed or been injured, regardless of how you view Luke's saber skill it is impressive as im sure we all know how Luke has defeated many skilled lightsaber duelist. and while he may not have won against Luke, he didn't lose either. how many other people have stalemated Luke? and how many of them were highly skilled and masterful duelist?

and again I agree with your point of saying that the Nexus obviously played a vital part in Desann survival

Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
Lucien if you have an opinion state it otherwise what is the point? Claiming that I am dull does not help the argument against Desann. Oh my God... I can only imagine you at parties.

Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
*snip*
The point isn't that Desann didn't gain the upperhand, that's apparent to everyone. The point is Desann didn't win against because he didn't actually hurt Luke, which is not hard to actually render in game. It's not that hard to record someone out of breath, limping, or hurt. If the writers wanted to show this, they would have. They may have been exhausted, and the game actually shows scenes of this rather well, but physical injury is highly unlikely.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
The point isn't that Desann didn't gain the upperhand, that's apparent to everyone. The point is Desann didn't win against because he didn't actually hurt Luke, which is not hard to actually render in game. It's not that hard to record someone out of breath, limping, or hurt. If the writers wanted to show this, they would have. They may have been exhausted, and the game actually shows scenes of this rather well, but physical injury is highly unlikely.

I somewhat agree with that, still I think that if we apply that to luke we should also apply it to Jaden who was largely unharmed when he fought Tavion/Marka Ragnos, Rosh/Kathos Twins and Alora. in my opinion it seems a little silly but not totally inconceivable - especially when its Luke, but still I understand where you're coming from and agree with most of your points

I'm thinking Maul. The way he took apart Anoon Bondara (who may or may not have had stupid quotes to overpower him...) and QGJ outranks anything that Desann accomplished. Running away from Luke who has every motivation to NOT be going for a kill against his former student is no more a feat than the survival of Gantoris is a feat for Gantoris.

I mean, Gantoris made Luke jump into a tree to get away... Was that a feat? an impressive one? I think not.

Your mother was a nerd. And your father a mother****er.

woah now the language is uncalled for

it was clever wordplay. your laughter and appreciation is a requirement.

There it is.

Shit just got real

No, don't tell your dad. I was just kidding. I take it back. I'm sure he's really kind.

I don't even know what to say to that.

You speak English well for an Asian man PT?

That's slightly offensive. Not as offensive as the randomly japanese stereotype transformer in Age of Extinction, but close.

You should go see the movie: There are lots of come-backs in it that make that one look pretty good.

omg.

Originally posted by truejedi
You should go see the movie: There are lots of come-backs in it that make that one look pretty good. TJ, if you keep giving Michael Bay a cookie, he's going to keep wanting another.

Oh man Lucien, I liked the first 3. Outright liked them. This one though, seriously the worst movie I've ever seen in my life. It's worse than the long-standing winner of that award: Buffalo 66. It passed a 70s indie film for stupidest movie i've ever seen. That's how bad it was.

Them explosions, tho.

We have no idea how Kyle won against Desann either as it's entirely a matter of gameplay for their duel. As I recall, the player has the means to to get amped and become temporarily invincible during the fight, thus it's possible that Desann > Kyle and that Kyle winning is no different than Obiwans victory over Darth Maul in TPM.

There's certainly nothing to indicate that Desann is above or equal to Luke, but there is plenty to indicate that he's not a joke or bantha fodder as people seem to like suggesting. Luke tells Kyle that they should not take him alone and also explains that the only reason he took him on alone was because Desann came out of nowhere. All in all, a very impressive showing and we'll leave it at that.

this thread is 2 years old man

Yeah if you want to necro a thread, it should be at least 10 years old.

Is that a jab towards me?